In other news, DJ Newbill sets record

[NersEllenson]

And Ners, here is what you said the very summer after the incident occurred.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222494#msg222494

"The truth lies somewhere in the middle between what the Newbill Camp alledges, and what the IWB account is..there is no reason to discount IWB's version 100% and to believe Newbill's version 100%."

So don't get all indignant now and misrepresent what others have been saying from the beginning, WHEN YOU ONCE SAID THE SAME D*MN THING!!!

Here is what I said in the same thread.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222545#msg222545

"Now Im not saying DJ's story is 100% true either.  As I said earlier, there are plenty of shades of gray here and the truth lies in the middle."

So who has been consistent from the beginning on this???

Ahh...unlike you...when there is more evidence that comes to light and available - I'm happy to revise my opinion, and call it like it is...I was wrong at the time it went down, but certainly can look at all the information available now and realize the MU/Buzz side of the story don't add up what-so-freaking-ever.

[GGGG]

Ahh...unlike you...when there is more evidence that comes to light and available - I'm happy to revise my opinion, and call it like it is...I was wrong at the time it went down, but certainly can look at all the information available now and realize the MU/Buzz side of the story don't add up what-so-freaking-ever.

What changed?  The timeline was the same.  The story was the same from both sides.  What evidence came to light that wasn't around then?

The only thing that changed is your opinion of Buzz.

[NersEllenson]

What changed?  The timeline was the same.  The story was the same from both sides.  What evidence came to light that wasn't around then?

The only thing that changed is your opinion of Buzz.

Why does your "account" of there being more to the story - a pre-arranged Prep School discussion make sense?  Still waiting for you to answer the questions I've asked about 10 times in this thread...crickets.  Why?  Because there is no explanation.

As for what changed my opinion?  There has been a lot more written about what happened in that deal since 2 weeks after it actually took place - which is when the thread you grabbed occurred in July of 2010.

[brewcity77]

Why does your "account" of there being more to the story - a pre-arranged Prep School discussion make sense?  Still waiting for you to answer the questions I've asked about 10 times in this thread...crickets.  Why?  Because there is no explanation.

Like I said, answer that and you'll get your character revealed moment.

[GGGG]

Why does your "account" of there being more to the story - a pre-arranged Prep School discussion make sense?  Still waiting for you to answer the questions I've asked about 10 times in this thread...crickets.  Why?  Because there is no explanation.

As for what changed my opinion?  There has been a lot more written about what happened in that deal since 2 weeks after it actually took place - which is when the thread you grabbed occurred in July of 2010.

False.

IWB's story was the exact same story it is now.  In fact you referenced it here:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222221#msg222221

"I have no doubt that Buzz/MU let DJ know at some time along the way that prep school could be an option...but once it became a reality..my guess is the Newbills wanted to see what other offers DJ could get at this time and asked for an outright release...so DJ would be free to be recruited by any other school (if he does decided to go the prep school route.)"

So again, what changed?  What new evidence has come to light?

[Lennys Tap]

  Why would Laws let DJ sign with MU on April 15th (after he'd been let go for a disagreement with the school principle), if he were secretly trying to leverage DJ for a job at USM??  Please.

Laws had nothing to do with the NLI. He wasn't DJ's mentor in April when it was signed. Hardett was. When he died in May, Laws moved into that spot. All of the understandings between Hardett/Newbill and MU went out the window. There was a new sheriff in town (Laws) and no way was he going to advise prep school when he could leverage the kid into a job for himself.

[Lennys Tap]

As for what changed my opinion?  There has been a lot more written about what happened in that deal since 2 weeks after it actually took place - which is when the thread you grabbed occurred in July of 2010.

I like you Ners - you know that. But the "evidence" hasn't changed. When this went down you liked Buzz and you liked/felt for DJ so you were able to see it from both sides and weigh things fairly - as a crappy situation for a nice kid due to the machinations of a lot of grown men who should have known better and should have looked out for DJ better. That included Buzz, Monarch and Hardnett. But the crap hit the fan when Hardnett died  and Laws "took over". He's the only one who "cashed in" on DJ, so if you're looking for the most culpable/least credible guy in this mess I suggest you follow the money.

[NersEllenson]

I like you Ners - you know that. But the "evidence" hasn't changed. When this went down you liked Buzz and you liked/felt for DJ so you were able to see it from both sides and weigh things fairly - as a crappy situation for a nice kid due to the machinations of a lot of grown men who should have known better and should have looked out for DJ better. That included Buzz, Monarch and Hardnett. But the crap hit the fan when Hardnett died  and Laws "took over". He's the only one who "cashed in" on DJ, so if you're looking for the most culpable/least credible guy in this mess I suggest you follow the money.

Again, you are looking for a HUGE conspiracy theory here.  Laws didn't go to MU and tell them to release DJ from his NLI (so he could free DJ to cash in at USM.)  MU pulled the plug on DJ, and in July, DJ was left to choose from limited options.

If DJ was so hell bent on MU and knew prep school was an option all along - he still could have said, "Fine, MU - I love you, you are my dream school, and I'll go to prep school for a year and sign me next year."  Laws couldn't force DJ to USM.  DJ, like most kids that are ready for high major ball, wanted to get in the game.

Why do you feel DJ's initial comments on the situation were "I was hurt.  Angry."?

[brewcity77]

Ners, the dots are there. You need to read between the lines to connect them. I'm sure someone with your, what was it, "critical thinking skills", can put it together.

[StillAWarrior]

Why do you feel DJ's initial comments on the situation were "I was hurt.  Angry."?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that he made those comments because he was hurt.  And angry.

I'm firmly in the "the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle" camp.  No matter which version of events you believe -- whether prep school was discussed early or it wasn't; whether it was a DJ for Jamil swap or it wasn't -- it would be completely natural for DJ to come out of the situation feeling hurt.  And angry.  Under every version of events that has been discussed, this was handled poorly by Marquette and Buzz.  I'd be surprised if DJ didn't feel hurt and angry.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, the dots are there. You need to read between the lines to connect them. I'm sure someone with your, what was it, "critical thinking skills", can put it together.

LOL - Nice.  But, go ahead, and let's hear it from you...and did you want to comment on how your timeline was faulty?  DJ committed February 1, (exhausting our last open scholarship) as Jamil Wilson was starting at Oregon and Ernie Kent still in place?

Did Newbill and Stan Laws go to MU to demand a release from the NLI so Laws could cash in at USM?

Please.  Clearly, you do need to follow the advice given above, and start to put 1 + 1 together and get 2, not 11.

[reinko]

Time to bring the back the NEP.  Ners Enabler Pledge.

The NEP is fantastic document which signatories commit to not enable Ners for more than 4 posts on the following topics.

1. Derrick Wilson minutes
2. DJ Newbill

Signatories must know, that future topics that are not currently on the pledge, but that are under consideration include.

1. Whether WoJo sent Gabe packing after he blows up out @ Long Beach State.
2. The possibility of Dawson transferring, and if he does, his future production @ another school.

[GGGG]

My adherence to the NEP ends when he starts revising history and falsely stating my position.  That's pretty much what he has to resort to however.

[brewcity77]

LOL - Nice.  But, go ahead, and let's hear it from you...and did you want to comment on how your timeline was faulty?  DJ committed February 1, (exhausting our last open scholarship) as Jamil Wilson was starting at Oregon and Ernie Kent still in place?

Did Newbill and Stan Laws go to MU to demand a release from the NLI so Laws could cash in at USM?

Please.  Clearly, you do need to follow the advice given above, and start to put 1 + 1 together and get 2, not 11.

The reasons I put this together the way I did was to share as much as I could without telling someone else's story for them. It's not to exonerate Buzz. There are a few more details I have heard that are not mine to share.

Everything is there for you to figure out. As I said above, not my story to tell. But if you're half as smart as you think you are you should be able to figure it out based on what's been posted in this thread.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Aren't we again missing the most obvious here, aside from a poster or two wanting to imply that Newbill and his coaches are lying or that someone was "fired" (as a volunteer) for nefarious reasons when, in fact, that volunteer coach was not.

Fact:  A NLI is initiated by the school, not the other way around.  A student athlete doesn't just have access to a NLI online, sign it and send it in declaring they are coming to a school for obvious reasons.  Instead, the NLI is accompanied with a the student athlete financial aid agreement (both documents) and are sent to the athlete to agree to BY THE SCHOOL offering the financial aid agreement.  Those come from the school.

This discussion should end right there. 

MU sent the NLI and aid package to Newbill.  Newbill signed the NLI and sent it back.  For a reminder, this is what Buzz Williams said upon receipt of the receiving the NLI.

"We are excited about DJ," Williams said. "Anyone that has followed our program knows the priority toughness and character are to us. DJ embodies those two qualities as well as anyone we have recruited.

"Similar to all of the others in our class thus far, DJ has won at the highest level and many times winning reveals toughness and character," Williams added.

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041410aab.html


Jamil Wilson, in April, was not coming to MU yet for a number of reasons.  It wasn't until June that he was cleared to transfer. Yes, discussions happened prior to April about transfer possibilities, but he could not come to MU at the time.  Newbill was given a NLI and financial aid agreement, which Newbill signed, which Buzz Williams accepted.


Again, the NLI should end all discussions....sent by MU to Newbill, which was signed and returned.  It was only AFTER when Wilson could transfer that Buzz yanked everything away and that was well after Newbill signed and returned the NLI.  These are facts.  Now if someone wants to claim these aren't facts or would like to claim certain people here are carrying water or naive to what happened, please refute these facts.  Now, if someone wants to say some conversation happened or was implied and all the coaches that were around Newbill are lying, that Newbill is also lying...that is fine, only problem with that is....the NLI.

[NersEllenson]

Everything is there for you to figure out. As I said above, not my story to tell. But if you're half as smart as you think you are you should be able to figure it out based on what's been posted in this thread.

A classic re-direct, that avoids answering very simple questions that pertain to the dots you are trying to connect.

No surprise you and Sultan have no answers for the questions, as to answer them renders your belief on the matter absolutely and totally WRONG!

You want to believe Laws had something to gain from this as a result of him landing at USM with DJ - and essentially convincing DJ to NOT go to prep school.  DJ (and his family) certainly could have said, sorry Stan - we are in love with MU - and we knew this was a possibility so we are going to go to Prep School and come back to MU next year.  DJ didn't have to go to USM.

[brewcity77]

You want to believe Laws had something to gain from this as a result of him landing at USM with DJ - and essentially convincing DJ to NOT go to prep school.  DJ (and his family) certainly could have said, sorry Stan - we are in love with MU - and we knew this was a possibility so we are going to go to Prep School and come back to MU next year.  DJ didn't have to go to USM.

No.

Earlier I posted an article. You looked at the article and came to the conclusion Laws was a great, community oriented guy. Lenny looked at the same article critically and saw that Laws leveraged high school kids into a job.

There's enough here to figure out the few missing pieces, but I won't do your thinking for you. Call it what you want, but those answers aren't mine to give.

[Lennys Tap]

Again, you are looking for a HUGE conspiracy theory here.  Laws didn't go to MU and tell them to release DJ from his NLI (so he could free DJ to cash in at USM.)  MU pulled the plug on DJ, and in July, DJ was left to choose from limited options.

If DJ was so hell bent on MU and knew prep school was an option all along - he still could have said, "Fine, MU - I love you, you are my dream school, and I'll go to prep school for a year and sign me next year."  Laws couldn't force DJ to USM.  DJ, like most kids that are ready for high major ball, wanted to get in the game.

Why do you feel DJ's initial comments on the situation were "I was hurt.  Angry."?

I'm not looking for any kind of conspiracy at all. What I do is connect obvious dots based on what we know.

1.Hardnett (not Laws) was the DJ's mentor and advisor. The "godfather of Philly hoops" who had been around the block a thousand times. His guy was recruited mostly by mid majors, but his dream was MU and the Big East. Hardnett had steered lots of those borderline Big East kids to that dream via the prep school route (often with Jay Wright at Villanova). BEFORE DJ signed his NLI in April Ernie Kent had been fired MU knew that Jamil was coming and that we were, barring something unforeseen (transfer, someone ineligible, etc.), full. Hardnett knew this too - no way Buzz would try to pull a fast one with a guy that powerful. So it looked liked the only route for DJ to MU was prep school. It was dumb for MU to let DJ sign the NLI, but they thought they had a deal in place so no harm, no foul. Stupid.
2. Everything still seems in order, though, until Hardnett dies and Stan Laws moves in. He doesn't want to hear about a prep school, his kid signed a NLI with Marquette and he wants them to honor it (or at least says he does). He's not bound by anything Hardnett agreed to. He has MU over a barrel and he knows it. Marquette has no room, so they'll for sure let DJ out of his NLI. I'm sure he told DJ that MU didn't want him, he'd find a D1 program that did, etc. Before asking MU for a release, he does the PR campaign with useful tool Brad Forster as MU stays silent (as they must). Mission accomplished, he asks MU for the release and it's granted. In a few short weeks (if it already wasn't a done deal beforehand) he parlays DJ into a job for himself, something he's out on if DJ goes to prep school.

Lots of blame to go around. But ask yourself this - who benefitted from DJ asking for his release and not going the prep school route? MU? Nope, DJ is a good player. DJ? I wouldn't classify trading 1 year of prep school plus 4 years at your dream school for a year at Godforsaken S Miss, a sit out year and 3 at Penn St as a benefit. But Stan Laws? He's the guy who got paid. Think about it.

[GGGG]

Aren't we again missing the most obvious here, aside from a poster or two wanting to imply that Newbill and his coaches are lying or that someone was "fired" (as a volunteer) for nefarious reasons when, in fact, that volunteer coach was not.

Fact:  A NLI is initiated by the school, not the other way around.  A student athlete doesn't just have access to a NLI online, sign it and send it in declaring they are coming to a school for obvious reasons.  Instead, the NLI is accompanied with a the student athlete financial aid agreement (both documents) and are sent to the athlete to agree to BY THE SCHOOL offering the financial aid agreement.  Those come from the school.

This discussion should end right there. 

MU sent the NLI and aid package to Newbill.  Newbill signed the NLI and sent it back.  For a reminder, this is what Buzz Williams said upon receipt of the receiving the NLI.

"We are excited about DJ," Williams said. "Anyone that has followed our program knows the priority toughness and character are to us. DJ embodies those two qualities as well as anyone we have recruited.

"Similar to all of the others in our class thus far, DJ has won at the highest level and many times winning reveals toughness and character," Williams added.

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041410aab.html


Jamil Wilson, in April, was not coming to MU yet for a number of reasons.  It wasn't until June that he was cleared to transfer. Yes, discussions happened prior to April about transfer possibilities, but he could not come to MU at the time.  Newbill was given a NLI and financial aid agreement, which Newbill signed, which Buzz Williams accepted.


Again, the NLI should end all discussions....sent by MU to Newbill, which was signed and returned.  It was only AFTER when Wilson could transfer that Buzz yanked everything away and that was well after Newbill signed and returned the NLI.  These are facts.  Now if someone wants to claim these aren't facts or would like to claim certain people here are carrying water or naive to what happened, please refute these facts.  Now, if someone wants to say some conversation happened or was implied and all the coaches that were around Newbill are lying, that Newbill is also lying...that is fine, only problem with that is....the NLI.

Chicos, no one is arguing with this.  No one is saying that Buzz and MU didn't f*ck up royally by signing him to the NLI.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So to complete the conspiracy theory, he followed Stan Laws to Southern Mississippi not because very few schools had any openings in July ....or that Davis (his AAU teammate) was also going there....nah....but because Laws was being paid or had some allegiance to him.  Then, when Laws left after one year to go to another program DJ chose not to follow his former coach, but to transfer to Penn State.  

Despite all facts in this case with the NLI being sent by MU and signed by Newbill, despite Buzz welcoming DJ to the school and team, despite the comments by Newbill, his coaches, his family..... even the comments by Buzz Williams himself...including the best one, "Through a culmination of several things, we have decided to give D.J. Newbill his release," said coach Buzz Williams.  Despite the implication by one poster here that he was fired by the high school for some shady actions, which were addressed in two articles that state that is not the case but apparently the chance to sully this volunteer coach is the goal.  Despite all of this, Buzz Williams is the guy to be believed here.  Maybe if some people knew a bit more about "culmination of several things" it would open a few more eyeballs.

SMH

[wadesworld]

I'm not looking for any kind of conspiracy at all. What I do is connect obvious dots based on what we know.

1.Hardnett (not Laws) was the DJ's mentor and advisor. The "godfather of Philly hoops" who had been around the block a thousand times. His guy was recruited mostly by mid majors, but his dream was MU and the Big East. Hardnett had steered lots of those borderline Big East kids to that dream via the prep school route (often with Jay Wright at Villanova). BEFORE DJ signed his NLI in April Ernie Kent had been fired MU knew that Jamil was coming and that we were, barring something unforeseen (transfer, someone ineligible, etc.), full. Hardnett knew this too - no way Buzz would try to pull a fast one with a guy that powerful. So it looked liked the only route for DJ to MU was prep school. It was dumb for MU to let DJ sign the NLI, but they thought they had a deal in place so no harm, no foul. Stupid.
2. Everything still seems in order, though, until Hardnett dies and Stan Laws moves in. He doesn't want to hear about a prep school, his kid signed a NLI with Marquette and he wants them to honor it (or at least says he does). He's not bound by anything Hardnett agreed to. He has MU over a barrel and he knows it. Marquette has no room, so they'll for sure let DJ out of his NLI. I'm sure he told DJ that MU didn't want him, he'd find a D1 program that did, etc. Before asking MU for a release, he does the PR campaign with useful tool Brad Forster as MU stays silent (as they must). Mission accomplished, he asks MU for the release and it's granted. In a few short weeks (if it already wasn't a done deal beforehand) he parlays DJ into a job for himself, something he's out on if DJ goes to prep school.

Lots of blame to go around. But ask yourself this - who benefitted from DJ asking for his release and not going the prep school route? MU? Nope, DJ is a good player. DJ? I wouldn't classify trading 1 year of prep school plus 4 years at your dream school for a year at Godforsaken S Miss, a sit out year and 3 at Penn St as a benefit. But Stan Laws? He's the guy who got paid. Think about it.

Bingo

[GGGG]

A classic re-direct, that avoids answering very simple questions that pertain to the dots you are trying to connect.

No surprise you and Sultan have no answers for the questions, as to answer them renders your belief on the matter absolutely and totally WRONG!

LEARN.  HOW.  TO.  READ.

I have answered the very question you asked in this very thread.  Not to mention that Lenny addressed it in his post. 

[Lennys Tap]

So to complete the conspiracy theory, he followed Stan Laws to Southern Mississippi not because very few schools had any openings in July ....or that Davis (his AAU teammate) was also going there....nah....but because Laws was being paid or had some allegiance to him.  

How can anyone not blinded by hatred or just outright dense or a combination of both call the obvious selling of a player a "conspiracy theory"? You think Stan Laws getting a job at Southern Miss and DJ going there was a coincidence? Nobody could be that stupid.

[keefe]

https://onwardstate.com/2014/12/03/the-marquette-connection-dj-newbill-and-the-scholarship-that-wasnt/

http://www.slamonline.com/college-hs/college/dj-newbill-philly-swagger/

[brewcity77]

Then, when Laws left after one year to go to another program DJ chose not to follow his former coach, but to transfer to Penn State.  

Follow the money. Larry Eustachy gave Laws the job at USM. Eustachy left USM the next year. He went to Colorado State. Care to guess where Laws went? Laws went to another program following his meal ticket. Newbill, rather than following Laws, decided to transfer back home.