In other news, DJ Newbill sets record

[Pakuni]

Buzz shouldn't have taken the LOI. Buzz shouldn't have released Newbill from it within a day of announcing Jamil's transfer. The two may have been unrelated, but it was a foolish move by an inexperienced coach. Buzz shouldn't have let Monarch handle the whole thing.

OK, allow me to call BS here.
Buzz was not an inexperienced coach in the summer of 2010. By that time he'd spent two seasons as head coach at a major program, another season as head coach at a small program, and 14 years as an assistant coach at programs big and small. Despite his "Aw shucks, I ain't too smart" act, he is not some naive rube, and he wasn't in 2010.
Regardless of whose version of events you choose to believe, it's not credible to think Buzz didn't know exactly what he was doing ... that he was just some newbie who innocently bumbled into a tough situation.
Also not credible: Buzz "letting" Monarch handle the whole thing. Monarch, lackey that he is, did as he was instructed.

[brewcity77]

OK, allow me to call BS here.
Buzz was not an inexperienced coach in the summer of 2010. By that time he'd spent two seasons as head coach at a major program, another season as head coach at a small program, and 14 years as an assistant coach at programs big and small. Despite his "Aw shucks, I ain't too smart" act, he is not some naive rube, and he wasn't in 2010.
Regardless of whose version of events you choose to believe, it's not credible to think Buzz didn't know exactly what he was doing ... that he was just some newbie who innocently bumbled into a tough situation.
Also not credible: Buzz "letting" Monarch handle the whole thing. Monarch, lackey that he is, did as he was instructed.

Buzz handled it poorly, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing. I do think given the chance to do it over he would have handled it differently. It was a learning experience for a guy with only 2 years on the job. The timing, the delegation to Monarch, the acceptance of the LOI, all things Buzz shouldn't have done. But I'm confident he had his reasons.

[swoopem]

Buzz handled it poorly, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing. I do think given the chance to do it over he would have handled it differently. It was a learning experience for a guy with only 2 years on the job. The timing, the delegation to Monarch, the acceptance of the LOI, all things Buzz shouldn't have done. But I'm confident he had his reasons.

You would think a guy who knows all the Presidents (even that Grover Cleveland was in office twice) would know how to handle a recruiting mishap.

What I take away from this is that Buzz a scumbag. Yes, those first 5 years were incredible and I'm extremely happy that we had the success that we did, but I'm glad we've moved on and that we have a respectable human in charge now.

[brewcity77]

You would think a guy who knows all the Presidents (even that Grover Cleveland was in office twice) would know how to handle a recruiting mishap.

What I take away from this is that Buzz a scumbag. Yes, those first 5 years were incredible and I'm extremely happy that we had the success that we did, but I'm glad we've moved on and that we have a respectable human in charge now.

Recruiting is a dirty business. I'm not sure that anyone willing to get deep into it will ever come out completely clean.

[Pakuni]

Buzz handled it poorly, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing. I do think given the chance to do it over he would have handled it differently. It was a learning experience for a guy with only 2 years on the job. The timing, the delegation to Monarch, the acceptance of the LOI, all things Buzz shouldn't have done. But I'm confident he had his reasons.

Buzz had been coaching Division I basketball for about 15 years by 2010, including six seasons at the high major level. He was not new to the recruiting process, and suggesting that what happened here was a result of inexperience lets him off way too easily.
He screwed up and should have known better. And that's true whether you believe his actions were deliberate and callous, or what happened was simply the result of a misunderstanding.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Recruiting is a dirty business. I'm not sure that anyone willing to get deep into it will ever come out completely clean.

This says it all -- this debate feels like trying to determine the degree in which this situation was unsavory.  Either way its unsavory.  

[Dr. Blackheart]

This says it all -- this debate feels like trying to determine the degree in which this situation was unsavory.  Either way its unsavory.  

Plus a lot.  #adultsusingkids

[GGGG]

This says it all -- this debate feels like trying to determine the degree in which this situation was unsavory.  Either way its unsavory. 

Yep.  No doubt about that.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm glad we've moved on and that we have a respectable human in charge now.

The guy who pole-axed Gabe Levin before he coached his first game at MU? OK.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The guy who pole-axed Gabe Levin before he coached his first game at MU? OK.

Where in the world did this come from? MU gor Ellenson, and there is a log jam in the front court next year. Kid wanted to play plus MU wasn't over on schollies

[brewcity77]

Where in the world did this come from? MU gor Ellenson, and there is a log jam in the front court next year. Kid wanted to play plus MU wasn't over on schollies

I think the point Lenny is making is not to christen Wojo just because he's our guy now. We did the same to Buzz when Crean left, the truth is all these guys are going to have to get their hands a little dirty when it comes to recruiting.

It doesn't matter if it's Buzz, Crean, K, Cal, Izzo, Bo, or Wojo, getting high major players and building a winning roster requires coaches to deal with handlers, family members, coaches, and shoe companies that all have their own agendas.

I love Wojo, but be careful putting him on a pedestal he can't live up to.

[Lennys Tap]

I think the point Lenny is making is not to christen Wojo just because he's our guy now. We did the same to Buzz when Crean left, the truth is all these guys are going to have to get their hands a little dirty when it comes to recruiting.

It doesn't matter if it's Buzz, Crean, K, Cal, Izzo, Bo, or Wojo, getting high major players and building a winning roster requires coaches to deal with handlers, family members, coaches, and shoe companies that all have their own agendas.

I love Wojo, but be careful putting him on a pedestal he can't live up to.

Bingo. If you like the guy, you look the other way a bit. I liked Buzz. Think I'm gonna like Wojo too.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I just want to share a quote from DJ Newbill, because apparently he is lying.....


“After the school year was over, it was time for me start with the paperwork and getting into the school…then I got a phone call and Buzz was telling me…actually he called my high school coach and he told me that they were gonna take my scholarship and use it to go another route. They wanted me to go to prep school and recruit me all over again for the following year because they had given out too many scholarships.”


DJ's other coach....also is lying...

"I understand it's a business and you're trying to do the best for your business, but when you make a commitment to someone, you should stand by your commitment," said Waiters, who has coached Newbill since ninth grade and was among the first to speak to him after Marquette made its decision. "Marquette was his ideal school. He's a little upset, but I think he'll be fine.  The disappointment is that he won't get to go to a Big East school," Waiters said. "He could petition, but you're never going to win those things. But he's got some pretty good offers on the table. He's going to have to get together with his mom and his family and make a decision."

Unfortunately, DJ's mom passed away about a year later and never got to see him play in college.

I would suggest folks look at the timing of the Jamil transfer a little closer...in April it was no slam dunk he was coming to MU for a number of reasons.  That didn't become more of a reality until more than a month later.


I would also suggest people look into why Laws was "fired".  Perhaps reporter Ted Silary is also lying.

COACHING CAROUSEL
Officially, Gerald Hendricks has been Strawberry Mansion’s head coach for several decades. But lately it’s been what they call an “on-paper” job, meaning the day-to-day operations involved in running a high-quality hoops program were handled by somebody else. In the Knights’ case, that somebody was Stan Laws, who says he’s an ordained minister. Laws, though, was “fired” from his job as volunteer assistant by principal Lois Powell Mondesire and athletic director Jill Syp. The gripe, according to Ted Silary from the Philadelphia Daily News? Laws wasn’t fond of some T-shirts the principal purchased for the team, and the disagreement led to his being asked to leave the program. The Knights lost to Ben Franklin in a Public League semifinal — their only ‘L’ this season — in their next game but rebounded to earn a state berth by beating Prep Charter a few days later. Laws had this to say about Powell Mondesire after his departure: “I did have someone deliver a note to her at the school. I wrote that I forgive her, and that I love her, in the name of Jesus.”

[Lennys Tap]

I just want to share a quote from DJ Newbill, because apparently he is lying.....


“After the school year was over, it was time for me start with the paperwork and getting into the school…then I got a phone call and Buzz was telling me…actually he called my high school coach and he told me that they were gonna take my scholarship and use it to go another route. They wanted me to go to prep school and recruit me all over again for the following year because they had given out too many scholarships.”

Wait, after the school year he got a call from Buzz? Or rather Philly coach told DJ that Buzz called him? I thought the story (from their camp) was Buzz never called anybody. Wasn't that their big complaint. Hard to keep their story straight, so many versions.

What do your sources in the Damien Saunders camp say about the phone call that Tom Crean made to rip the scholarship from his hands when we ended up over signed because Dom didn't go pro? LOL, time for you to get back to Peegs, jimtelevision. Your boy needs defending.

[The Equalizer]

Okay...I'm going to put a little timeline together.

February 2010: Stan Laws fired from Strawberry Mansion

There's never been a full account of what happened here, but PhillyCoach was fired in the middle of a 23-0 season from Strawberry Mansion during DJ Newbill's senior year. It was alluded to in the article I posted above (get back to that later) but the bottom line for me is if you get fired when your team is 23-0, you are probably doing things off the court or at least away from the spotlight that you probably shouldn't be doing.

March 17, 2010: Ernie Kent Fired at Oregon

April 14, 2010: Newbill Signs With Marquette

So we know Marquette was (for better or worse) involved with Jamil ahead of time, and Kent had been fired a month before Newbill signed. I'm not saying Buzz is blameless, but by the time Newbill signed, the above posts indicate the staff was already planning on Jamil Wilson transferring. That's how we can be confident that Laws' story that it was a DJ-for-Jamil trade is false. Also, this definitely reflects poorly on the now-departed coaching staff.

May 18, 2010: John Hardnett Dies

Hardnett was somewhat the godfather of Philly hoops, but more than that he was very, very close with DJ Newbill. Let's look at some pertinent quotes from this story posted above on Newbill's relationship with Hardnett:

Newbill knew Hardnett since the 7th grade and regarded him as a father figure. When it came to basketball, this was the guy who taught him the game, guided his path, and helped him make all his decisions. Suddenly, that mentor was gone. So who steps to the forefront of the recruitment? His unemployed high school coach, Stan Laws.

Also, there was always the prep school rumor:

There's a ton of smoke around that old prep school fire story. Maybe because the involvement on DJ's end came from someone who can no longer tell that part of the story?

June 29-30, 2010: DJ Newbill released from LOI and Jamil Wilson Transfers to Marquette

Here we come to the alleged "swap", which was always the story Stan Laws tried to spin, often using Brad Forster, a local Philly Marquette grad, as the mouthpiece. But if Jamil was already coming before DJ even signed we know it wasn't a swap. It looks that way. We all thought that was the case, myself included, but those most connected at the time knew the two things were unrelated.

You forgot to include this in the timeline:

January 31, 2010 DJ Newbill commits to Marquette
At that time Jamil Wilson was still a starter at Oregon, Ernie Kent was several months away from being fired, Stan Laws would still be Newbill's HS coach for another month, and John Hardnett would live for another four months.

For completeness you could have also included that DJ Newbill attended MU's elite camp the summer before. It eliminates the implication that Buzz was merely correcting a hastily conceived offer made in error.

The "swap" story is the only one that makes sense when you include the compete timeline. That timeline shows that Buzz offered Newbill a scholarship long before Wilson was conceivably available.

And I've never understood the logic behind the "prep school" excuse. If Buzz already knew in mid-April that Wilson was coming and wanted Newbill to go to prep school, what possible reason would he have to give Newbill an LOI to sign?  He's not that stupid he can't count to 13.  And if there actually was agreement to the "deal" for Newbill to attend prep school, there was no need for an LOI--it didn't apply to the following season at MU and it wasn't required to go to prep school. 

So someone will post the "well, maybe Newbill and MU agreed under the table that there was a spot for Newbill in 2011-12, and the only way there would be a scholarship in 2010-11 was if Wilson backed out, " 

Fine--then someone needs to explain why do you need an LOI for that?  Because Newbill insisted? I thought the story was that he agreed with the plan. If that's the case, why would he insist on an LOI which didn't actually document the agreement?   

MU wanted protection?  Protection against what?  That he'd jump to another school before Wilson arrived?  But I thought Newbill was on board with the idea to go to prep school. Why would there be any concern that he's jump to another school? 

And since the LOI would never apply to the following season there is no protection for MU if Newbill blows up over the summer before his prep year and a Duke or UNC or Kansas come calling (or maybe even a WVU again, or maybe closer-to-home programs like Villanova or Georgetown who took a pass the first time).

So if all sides understood and agreed to the "year in prep school" plan, neither side had any incentive to enter into a sham LOI agreement. 

[PhillyCoach]

i never coached aau or travel ball, i coached at mansion from 2004 thru 2010. i coached dj since 6th grade. and guess what im back at strawberry mansion coaching. why? because its about the kids and their family. And for the record ive been doing full time ministry for 14 years now........

[Golden Avalanche]

Buzz handled it poorly, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing. I do think given the chance to do it over he would have handled it differently. It was a learning experience for a guy with only 2 years on the job. The timing, the delegation to Monarch, the acceptance of the LOI, all things Buzz shouldn't have done. But I'm confident he had his reasons.

Man, to be this naive in life must take a ton of bubble wrap.

[GGGG]

You forgot to include this in the timeline:

January 31, 2010 DJ Newbill commits to Marquette
At that time Jamil Wilson was still a starter at Oregon, Ernie Kent was several months away from being fired, Stan Laws would still be Newbill's HS coach for another month, and John Hardnett would live for another four months.

For completeness you could have also included that DJ Newbill attended MU's elite camp the summer before. It eliminates the implication that Buzz was merely correcting a hastily conceived offer made in error.

The "swap" story is the only one that makes sense when you include the compete timeline. That timeline shows that Buzz offered Newbill a scholarship long before Wilson was conceivably available.

And I've never understood the logic behind the "prep school" excuse. If Buzz already knew in mid-April that Wilson was coming and wanted Newbill to go to prep school, what possible reason would he have to give Newbill an LOI to sign?  He's not that stupid he can't count to 13.  And if there actually was agreement to the "deal" for Newbill to attend prep school, there was no need for an LOI--it didn't apply to the following season at MU and it wasn't required to go to prep school. 

So someone will post the "well, maybe Newbill and MU agreed under the table that there was a spot for Newbill in 2011-12, and the only way there would be a scholarship in 2010-11 was if Wilson backed out, " 

Fine--then someone needs to explain why do you need an LOI for that?  Because Newbill insisted? I thought the story was that he agreed with the plan. If that's the case, why would he insist on an LOI which didn't actually document the agreement?   

MU wanted protection?  Protection against what?  That he'd jump to another school before Wilson arrived?  But I thought Newbill was on board with the idea to go to prep school. Why would there be any concern that he's jump to another school? 

And since the LOI would never apply to the following season there is no protection for MU if Newbill blows up over the summer before his prep year and a Duke or UNC or Kansas come calling (or maybe even a WVU again, or maybe closer-to-home programs like Villanova or Georgetown who took a pass the first time).

So if all sides understood and agreed to the "year in prep school" plan, neither side had any incentive to enter into a sham LOI agreement. 

Two things.

It is my understanding that Jamil's people were talking about a transfer earlier than when Kent was fired - as early as the semester break.  He was not happy at Oregon.  (If you want to label that "tampering" then fine...)

It is also my understanding that Newbill wanted to sign the LOI.  Although I can see why that doesn't make a lot of sense.

[NersEllenson]

You forgot to include this in the timeline:

January 31, 2010 DJ Newbill commits to Marquette
At that time Jamil Wilson was still a starter at Oregon, Ernie Kent was several months away from being fired, Stan Laws would still be Newbill's HS coach for another month, and John Hardnett would live for another four months.

For completeness you could have also included that DJ Newbill attended MU's elite camp the summer before. It eliminates the implication that Buzz was merely correcting a hastily conceived offer made in error.

The "swap" story is the only one that makes sense when you include the compete timeline. That timeline shows that Buzz offered Newbill a scholarship long before Wilson was conceivably available.

And I've never understood the logic behind the "prep school" excuse. If Buzz already knew in mid-April that Wilson was coming and wanted Newbill to go to prep school, what possible reason would he have to give Newbill an LOI to sign?  He's not that stupid he can't count to 13.  And if there actually was agreement to the "deal" for Newbill to attend prep school, there was no need for an LOI--it didn't apply to the following season at MU and it wasn't required to go to prep school. 

So someone will post the "well, maybe Newbill and MU agreed under the table that there was a spot for Newbill in 2011-12, and the only way there would be a scholarship in 2010-11 was if Wilson backed out, " 

Fine--then someone needs to explain why do you need an LOI for that?  Because Newbill insisted? I thought the story was that he agreed with the plan. If that's the case, why would he insist on an LOI which didn't actually document the agreement?   

MU wanted protection?  Protection against what?  That he'd jump to another school before Wilson arrived?  But I thought Newbill was on board with the idea to go to prep school. Why would there be any concern that he's jump to another school? 

And since the LOI would never apply to the following season there is no protection for MU if Newbill blows up over the summer before his prep year and a Duke or UNC or Kansas come calling (or maybe even a WVU again, or maybe closer-to-home programs like Villanova or Georgetown who took a pass the first time).

So if all sides understood and agreed to the "year in prep school" plan, neither side had any incentive to enter into a sham LOI agreement. 

The level of excuses and "rationale" to try to exonerate Buzz in this matter by Brew, Sultan are embarrassing.  Not to mention flat out insulting DJ's Coach, mentor - Stan Laws.

Man, to be this naive in life must take a ton of bubble wrap.

+1

[GGGG]

The level of excuses and "rationale" to try to exonerate Buzz in this matter by Brew, Sultan are embarrassing.  Not to mention flat out insulting DJ's Coach, mentor - Stan Laws.

Your reading skills are as bad as willie's.  I am NOT exonerating Buzz - at all.  I have said repeatedly going back to when this entire incident occurred that Buzz was WRONG to do what he did.  PERIOD.

Stop making sh*t up.

I am simply saying there is a lot more to the story, and that taking Laws' word as gold here is probably not a wise decision.

The ONLY person I have sympathy for in this entire incident is DJ Newbill.  He seems like a great kid who is making everything out of what was a terrible situation.

[brewcity77]

The level of excuses and "rationale" to try to exonerate Buzz in this matter by Brew, Sultan are embarrassing.  Not to mention flat out insulting DJ's Coach, mentor - Stan Laws.

SMDH

I am not exonerating Buzz. Far from it. Buzz was one of the parties in the wrong. You clearly aren't reading between the lines, hence why I even needed to post the timeline when that article clearly stated that Laws leveraged two high school kids for a made-up job. Strip out the feel-good BS emotions and that's pretty clearly what happened.

The answer you should be trying to figure out is WHY did Buzz accept the LOI? Answer that and you'll get a bit more character revealed.

[GGGG]

And Ners, here is what you said the very summer after the incident occurred.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222494#msg222494

"The truth lies somewhere in the middle between what the Newbill Camp alledges, and what the IWB account is..there is no reason to discount IWB's version 100% and to believe Newbill's version 100%."

So don't get all indignant now and misrepresent what others have been saying from the beginning, WHEN YOU ONCE SAID THE SAME D*MN THING!!!

Here is what I said in the same thread.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20962.msg222545#msg222545

"Now Im not saying DJ's story is 100% true either.  As I said earlier, there are plenty of shades of gray here and the truth lies in the middle."

So who has been consistent from the beginning on this???

[NersEllenson]

Your reading skills are as bad as willie's.  I am NOT exonerating Buzz - at all.  I have said repeatedly going back to when this entire incident occurred that Buzz was WRONG to do what he did.  PERIOD.

Stop making sh*t up.

I am simply saying there is a lot more to the story, and that taking Laws' word as gold here is probably not a wise decision.

The ONLY person I have sympathy for in this entire incident is DJ Newbill.  He seems like a great kid who is making everything out of what was a terrible situation.

I think most of what's been written in this thread has shown your take on the situation to be erroneous.  It's okay to just say - I was wrong.

Your whole "there's a lot more to the story" (prep school) has been pretty roundly shown to be a farce.  Again...why in the F does DJ sign an NLI with strings attached after a STELLAR senior season that brought other high majors around - if he feels MU may re-nege on the deal??  And why would Stan Laws allow him to sign an NLI which binds him to MU - if he had ulterior motives about "using" DJ to get a college job somewhere else - when MU wasn't going to offer Laws a position?

Again, I'm sure you won't have any answers to these questions - just more vague:  There's more to the story, blah, blah, blah.

[NersEllenson]

SMDH

I am not exonerating Buzz. Far from it. Buzz was one of the parties in the wrong. You clearly aren't reading between the lines, hence why I even needed to post the timeline when that article clearly stated that Laws leveraged two high school kids for a made-up job. Strip out the feel-good BS emotions and that's pretty clearly what happened.

The answer you should be trying to figure out is WHY did Buzz accept the LOI? Answer that and you'll get a bit more character revealed.

SMDH - Go back and look at the real timeline....Newbill committed to MU on February 1....that's when MU offered/accepted his commitment.  You can't sign the NLI till April 15th.  Why would Laws let DJ sign with MU on April 15th (after he'd been let go for a disagreement with the school principle), if he were secretly trying to leverage DJ for a job at USM??  Please.

[GGGG]

I think most of what's been written in this thread has shown your take on the situation to be erroneous.  It's okay to just say - I was wrong.

Your whole "there's a lot more to the story" (prep school) has been pretty roundly shown to be a farce.  Again...why in the F does DJ sign an NLI with strings attached after a STELLAR senior season that brought other high majors around - if he feels MU may re-nege on the deal??  And why would Stan Laws allow him to sign an NLI which binds him to MU - if he had ulterior motives about "using" DJ to get a college job somewhere else - when MU wasn't going to offer Laws a position?

Again, I'm sure you won't have any answers to these questions - just more vague:  There's more to the story, blah, blah, blah.

Ners:  "The truth lies somewhere in the middle between what the Newbill Camp alledges, and what the IWB account is..there is no reason to discount IWB's version 100% and to believe Newbill's version 100%."

So what's different now?  What changed your mind?