Follow Up On Baning Football, Now SI's Peter King Is Thinking About Banning FB

[jficke13]

The primary reason boxing withered and died is because it moved to pay-per-view. I was in my twenties (I'm 26 now) before I saw so much as 1 round of live boxing. A lot of very good fighters have had their entire careers go by in my lifetime and I've seen none of it. If it were on network or cable, maybe I'd have gotten into the sport.

[Lennys Tap]

The current issue of Rolling Stone (with 30 Rock cast on the cover) has a good article on brain damage and sports.  It's not available on-line yet.  There's a story in the article of a teenage girl who has had a few concussions from playing hockey and she wants to quit because she worries about permament brain damage but her farther won't let her because he's thinks she needs to "toughen up".  It's a good read and not overly long.

And when she's 50 and has early onset alzheimers or some kind of permanent brain injury I'm sure her father and the rest of the family will find consolation in her "toughness". I love sports (including football, hockey and other "collision" sports) more than is probably healthy, but any Dad who forces his son or daughter to play a sport after multiple concussions is a child abuser.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

And when she's 50 and has early onset alzheimers or some kind of permanent brain injury I'm sure her father and the rest of the family will find consolation in her "toughness". I love sports (including football, hockey and other "collision" sports) more than is probably healthy, but any Dad who forces his son or daughter to play a sport after multiple concussions is a child abuser.

The girl told Katie Couric she would like to be a doctor.  And the brain expert (A Dr. who was also on the show) told the girl in that case she'll need everyone of her brain cells to be one and the father  said he still didn't see the point of quitting.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Right.  There will be anecdotal stories like these where parents will still value things like "toughening up" over permanent long-term brain damage.  They will proudly sign that waiver.  But at the margins, youth participation will decrease, and the fan base will likely shrink.

 

[BallBoy]

Who you like the list of the thousands of cases in all walks of life where someone signed a waiver and they claimed "they did not understand" and received a hefty payment?

Until now no one has actually been paid on a case (or paid in a way that sets precedence).  If one of the concussion lawsuits are lost, that is a game-changer.

Yes, I would like a list of the thousand cases.  Even with the smoking, it wasn't because of the warning label but because the smoking company was knowingly including items but did not include those as "ingredients."  Some of those "ingredients" where later determined to be a cancer causing agents.  "American cigarettes in particular are wildly additive-laden, with more than 600 chemicals and flavorants used in them. (Canadian cigarettes, by contrast, are almost entirely pure tobacco, except for what's required to help them burn evenly.)"

According to what you state above, the lawsuits have to win which means someone would have to show that the NFL knew the long term impact of head injuries and intentionally hid this information.  The defendants won't just be the NFL but NHL, soccer, Nascar, MMA, boxing, etc.   Which means most sports as we know them would fall.  How exciting is hockey going to be when you can't fight or check someone into the boards?  This is why Obama said he wants them to think about it not he didn't say make changes.

[Silkk the Shaka]

 

I have no idea what you are trying to convey here.  However, when youth participation declines, the fanbase declines as a result.  Look at baseball.  It used to be the top dog, but youth participation declined and it lost its top spot because of it.  I'm not saying football will go away (baseball didn't), I'm saying the fanbase will inevitably shrink because of this phenomenon.

[Pakuni]

I have no idea what you are trying to convey here.  However, when youth participation declines, the fanbase declines as a result.  Look at baseball.  It used to be the top dog, but youth participation declined and it lost its top spot because of it.  I'm not saying football will go away (baseball didn't), I'm saying the fanbase will inevitably shrink because of this phenomenon.

Just like to point out a couple of things ...

1. Youth participation and attendance/fanbase size don't go hand in hand. If it did, MLS teams would be selling out 40,000-seat stadiums. Instead, most teams average under 20,000 fans per game.

2. Baseball had its fifth highest attendance ever last year. About 10 million more people went to the ballpark last year than in 2002. It's not the dominant sport anymore, but its not like it's suffered a massive decline in popularity.

[BallBoy]

Just like to point out a couple of things ...

1. Youth participation and attendance/fanbase size don't go hand in hand. If it did, MLS teams would be selling out 40,000-seat stadiums. Instead, most teams average under 20,000 fans per game.

2. Baseball had its fifth highest attendance ever last year. About 10 million more people went to the ballpark last year than in 2002. It's not the dominant sport anymore, but its not like it's suffered a massive decline in popularity.

Point 1 was just on ESPN last month. 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1283006/blatter-chides-mls-as-'struggling'-to-take-hold?cc=5901

"Blatter said that soccer remains the U.S.'s most popular youth participation sport, outranking both football and baseball, but said that the professional league fever that rages around much of the world has never quite stuck in the U.S." 

MLS started 18yrs ago as a condition for having the World Cup.  That is a solid generation who would have grown up playing soccer but it still has not gained hold.

[Tugg Speedman]

Bernard Pollard: NFL won’t exist in 30 years
Posted on January 28, 2013

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/01/bernard-pollard-nfl-wont-exist-in-30-years/

Despite the unparalleled success of the NFL, one former Texan doesn’t believe the ultra-popular league will be around much longer.

“Thirty years from now, I don’t think it will be in existence,” Baltimore Ravens strong safety Bernard Pollard said in an interview with CBS Sports. “I could be wrong. It’s just my opinion, but I think with the direction things are going — where (NFL rules makers) want to lighten up, and they’re throwing flags and everything else — there’s going to come a point where fans are going to get fed up with it.”

In recent years, the NFL has several made rule changes in the name of player safety — rules that have made the game safer, but have also made the jobs of defensive players such as Pollard tougher.

The seven-year safety, who is known for his big hits, including a devastating helmet-to-helmet shot on New England Patriots running back Stevan Ridley in the AFC Championship Game, said the league’s recent emphasis on player safety doesn’t match the escalating physical standards required to play in the NFL.

“The league is trying to move in the right direction [with player safety],” he said, “but, at the same time, [coaches] want bigger, stronger and faster year in and year out. And that means you’re going to keep getting big hits and concussions and blown-out knees. The only thing I’m waiting for … and, Lord, I hope it doesn’t happen … is a guy dying on the field. We’ve had everything else happen there except for a death. We understand what we signed up for, and it sucks.

“Like I said, I pray it never happens, but you’ve got guys who are 350 pounds running 4.5 and 4.4s, and these owners and coaches want scout-run blockers and linemen to move walls. At the same time, they tell you, ‘Don’t hit here, and don’t hit there, or we’ll take your money.’ Like I said, I hope I’m wrong, but I just believe one day there’s going to be a death that takes place on the field because of the direction we’re going.”

Pollard wasn’t the only one to voice his opinion on the future of football and player safety this past weekend. President Barack Obama said in an interview with The New Republic that if he had a son, he’d “have to think long and hard” before letting him play because of the physical toll the game takes.

“I think that those of us who love the sport are going to have to wrestle with the fact that it will probably change gradually to try to reduce some of the violence,” Obama told the magazine.

“In some cases, that may make it a little bit less exciting, but it will be a whole lot better for the players, and those of us who are fans maybe won’t have to examine our consciences quite as much.”

In the interview, which will appear in the Feb. 11 issue, Obama said he worries more about college players than he does about those in the NFL.

“The NFL players have a union, they’re grown men, they can make some of these decisions on their own, and most of them are well-compensated for the violence they do to their bodies,” Obama said. “You read some of these stories about college players who undergo some of these same problems with concussions and so forth and then have nothing to fall back on. That’s something that I’d like to see the NCAA think about.”

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello responded Sunday, “We have no higher priority than player health and safety at all levels of the game.”

[Tugg Speedman]

Cavallari to steer Cutler's son away from football

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-cavallari-cutler-football-son-20130128,0,3933263.story

Kristin Cavallari -- whose fiance, Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler, has sustained numerous concussions -- says she hopes their 5-month-old son Camden doesn't play football and will steer him toward a sport that "isn't so aggressive."

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cavallari to steer Cutler's son away from football

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-cavallari-cutler-football-son-20130128,0,3933263.story

Kristin Cavallari -- whose fiance, Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler, has sustained numerous concussions -- says she hopes their 5-month-old son Camden doesn't play football and will steer him toward a sport that "isn't so aggressive."

Anyone tell her husband?

"At the end of the day, I think if he wants to play football, I don't know if I'm gonna have too much control over it," said Cavallari, who is a former MTV reality star. "You know, how can your dad be a football player and you tell them that they can't do it?"

During the Nov. 20 "Jay Cutler Show" on ESPN 1000, Cutler was asked if he would let his son play football.

"It is a huge number of players that have played football for numerous amount of years and don't have any symptoms from concussions and are leading completely healthy, normal lives," Cutler said. "I think as a culture and as fans of football everyone got caught up into the concussion mania and awareness, it's kind of -- I don't want to say blown out of proportion, because it is a significant issue and something that needs to be paid attention to. ... There is a lot of other things I worry about for Cam other than football. I have diabetes, our food situation in America with preservatives and everything else we put into it, that's something I worry about a lot more than him getting concussions playing football.

"So, to answer your question, would I let him play football? Absolutely."

[Tugg Speedman]

During the Nov. 20 "Jay Cutler Show" on ESPN 1000, Cutler was asked if he would let his son play football.

"There is a lot of other things I worry about for Cam other than football. I have diabetes, our food situation in America with preservatives and everything else we put into it, that's something I worry about a lot more than him getting concussions playing football.

So Cutler thinks NOT eating organic food is more dangerous than football?

Maybe he really has taken too many shots to the head.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So Cutler thinks NOT eating organic food is more dangerous than football?

Maybe he really has taken too many shots to the head.

Plenty of folks concerned about what we put in our bodies and the long term health impacts...cancers, diabetes, etc.   

He correctly points out that most football players don't suffer from these issues.  We are a reactionary society.  Whether it's guns, concussions, snowmobile accidents (have you read the last few articles since the X Games snowmobile a in papers like the Washington Post asking "when is enough enough"), Toyota accelerator issues (which turned out to be totally bogus), silicone breast implant safety (also turned out to be bogus), etc.

There are going to be risks.  Don't like the risks, don't play the game.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Don't ruin the game we love

http://images.burrellesluce.com/image/3570XN/3570XN_23824

[mu-rara]

Plenty of folks concerned about what we put in our bodies and the long term health impacts...cancers, diabetes, etc.   

He correctly points out that most football players don't suffer from these issues.  We are a reactionary society.  Whether it's guns, concussions, snowmobile accidents (have you read the last few articles since the X Games snowmobile a in papers like the Washington Post asking "when is enough enough"), Toyota accelerator issues (which turned out to be totally bogus), silicone breast implant safety (also turned out to be bogus), etc.

There are going to be risks.  Don't like the risks, don't play the game.

Chicos,  you don't seem to be a guy who puts his head in the sand.  You have to recognize that these concerns are a threat to be acknowledged. 
I am not saying that it will be the end of football.  Only that it must be factored in as corporate leadership evaluates opportunites and threats in the future.

I would have a lot less respect for the leadership at DTV if they were not looking 20 years down the road, quantifying the effect of these concerns.

[Tugg Speedman]

Whether it's guns, concussions, snowmobile accidents (have you read the last few articles since the X Games snowmobile a in papers like the Washington Post asking "when is enough enough")

Caleb Moore died this morning.  The x-games will change.

[Tugg Speedman]

Businessweek COVER STORY this week is about the concussion lawsuit

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-31/will-brain-injury-lawsuits-doom-or-save-the-nfl#r=hp-ls

[MarquetteDano]

All this talk about football, namely college, POTENTIALLY diminishing in popularity years down the road has me thinking about the impact on Marquette basketball:

If all those schools who put huge resources into football first and basketball a distant second now put basketball first, one would have to think that Marquette would suffer as we could never keep up the likes of schools with those kinds of resources?

Or is my theoretical scenario too pessimistic?

[Benny B]

All this talk about football, namely college, POTENTIALLY diminishing in popularity years down the road has me thinking about the impact on Marquette basketball:

If all those schools who put huge resources into football first and basketball a distant second now put basketball first, one would have to think that Marquette would suffer as we could never keep up the likes of schools with those kinds of resources?

Or is my theoretical scenario too pessimistic?

The flaw I see in your theoretical is that you're assuming the availability of resources remains static if the focus changed moved off of football.

For instance, if Michigan shifted its resources to basketball, the football program would suffer - perhaps irreparably - and the multi-millions in donations, TV money, ticket sales, licensing fees, etc. that were tied specifically to football would dry up overnight.  So Michigan is left with less revenue (that likely wouldn't be made up by a more competitive basketball program), yet it still has to fund the rest of their Olympic sports.

In the end, shifting resources to basketball would likely leave a basketball program at a former football school with less resources than it had when it was a football school.

[mu-rara]

NFL must be aware of the threat Mom's pose to football.

NFL sponsored commercial with Tom Brady, focused on a Mom asking what the NFL is doing to make the game safer for her son.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Caleb Moore died this morning.  The x-games will change.

I met with the ESPN guys yesterday at the beach bowl, we spoke of the incident.  They're going to review things, but changes are not imminent.  Accidents happen.  It was a freak accident.

Today had a great presentation with our team from Joe Buck and other NFL folks about the state of the game and where things are going.  Buck was terrific, great stories about his dad, baseball, football, etc.  Very funny, also very serious about some of these topics.  I think everyone in the room knows full well the financial implications, the personal responsibility (no one is putting a gun to anyone's head), but also what can be done to make things safer.  My takeaway is you will see some equipment modifications, they will continue to protect the players with the refs, but unlikely anything drastic beyond that for some time, if ever.  The data shows some players having trouble, it also shows most players not having trouble.  As I stated the other day, you also have questions about what else were some of these players doing.  In other words, is it soley based on football, or any number of other things?  A lot of studies still to happen but they aren't going to throw the game away.

MU Ra-Ra.... of course you try to think ahead, plan accordingly, etc.  I am not suggesting putting a head in the sand, I'm suggesting like many others that knee jerk reactions are also just as problematic as ignoring problems.  Study them, truly study them, educate, etc, but knee jerk decisions lead to problems in business, gov't, etc.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Meanwhile, Gand drew a 48.1 rating.  May end up highest rated program in history.  Follow the money.

[Benny B]

Meanwhile, Gand drew a 48.1 rating.  May end up highest rated program in history.  Follow the money.

Football may end up being the most expensive lawsuit in history, too.  You can only follow the money for so long before the attorneys redirect the path to their own door.

[Pakuni]

Football may end up being the most expensive lawsuit in history, too.  You can only follow the money for so long before the attorneys redirect the path to their own door.

The master tobacco lawsuit was settled for over $200 billion.
Something tells me if they win - and that's a massive "if" - or even force a settlement, the NFL plaintiffs aren't getting anything close to that.

[Benny B]

The master tobacco lawsuit was settled for over $200 billion.
Something tells me if they win - and that's a massive "if" - or even force a settlement, the NFL plaintiffs aren't getting anything close to that.

I'm not talking about the pending NFL lawsuit...