MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: foreverwarriors on June 30, 2011, 01:20:33 PM
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Per Jen Lada of Fox6
@jenlada: BREAKING NEWS: Sources say Steve Cottingham has resigned as AD at @MarquetteU @muathletics. Announcement expected soon
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Per Fox 6's Jen Lada. Announcement to come.
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Do I win the bet?
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Well this isn't very surprising...I don't know who will think it is.
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Well this isn't very surprising...I don't know who will think it is.
I guess I am...to a degree.
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Seems like either he actually did something wrong in handling the recent issues, or he is playing the role of scapegoat
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perhaps a clash with the new President?
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I mentioned a few weeks ago, in between being attacked by some here, how strange it was that the comments from the Athletic Department on the recent issues were coming only from Broeker and I did not see one comment attributed to Cottingham. Then again, the University wasn't putting anything out there from Wild, either. The only time Wild came into the equation was to announce the new reporting to police policy.
I believe I had the under on SC at below 5 years...so I think I win the bet. He's a very nice man, a very smart guy, solid attorney, but I think my views were stated clearly when we decided as a university not to do a national AD search at the time was just crazy ridiculous. I have a heard time believing any other BCS conference school in the country would have done it that way considering he had no prior experience.
If the rumors are true, thank him for his service. Thumbs up for adding Lacrosse and keeping Buzz on board (though time will tell if the cost justifications add up). I'm one that believes MU took a big black eye with the recent issues and as I've said before, there are other items that have made me squirm that haven't been presented publicly...many here disagree or simply don't care (Just Win Baby and it doesn't matter how) which I think is a dangerous way to play the game.
Best of luck to Mr. C (if the rumors are true)
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BBFran will be upset
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Maybe Strong didn't dig 'im or the horse he rode in on. In any regard, can probably make more scratch in the private sector.
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http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/124796179.html
No new info.
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"Al Davis said it best, Just Win Baby, Win."
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Here is a link...
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/124796179.html
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Was Cottingham sexting?
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I'm one that believes MU took a big black eye with the recent issues
Do we know if this story hit national news levels? i know in the upper midwest and to alumni across the country it might seem like it, but I dont if joe blow Washington fan is going to or hear of or know about this in the coming season. I admit I didnt really read much of the ChiTrib article as after nothing ever came from the allegations (be it right or wrong) I just never gave this much thought. I am just saying it might be a black eye locally/regionally, but I am not convinced that this has spread as far in the media as OSU's transgressions (i know, unfair comparison).
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Statement from Marquette:
http://www.gomarquette.com/genrel/063011aaa.html
Steve Cottingham, athletic director at Marquette University, has resigned to pursue other interests.
Cottingham worked on the university's move to the BIG EAST Conference in 2005, has remained an active participant in BIG EAST matters on behalf of the university and negotiated Marquette's contract with the Bradley Center, home of the men's basketball team. As athletic director, he oversaw 14 intercollegiate sports and was instrumental in adding men's and women's lacrosse to the athletic roster, beginning in 2012. Under his leadership, the department constructed the Klein Family/KBS Soccer Pavilion at Valley Fields and the Blue & Gold Scholarship Fund, providing annual funding for student-athlete scholarships, grew to more than $3.5 million. Cottingham also launched and made substantial progress on a goal to increase the athletic scholarship endowment to $20 million by 2017.
Prior to being named athletic director in January 2007, Cottingham was an associate senior vice president at Marquette and, before that, served as an attorney in the university's Office of the General Counsel, with responsibilities that included coaches' contracts.
In a letter to Marquette University President Robert A. Wild, S.J., Cottingham said, "Although recent events involving a few student-athletes have certainly been a disappointment to me, I leave Marquette with positive feelings and confidence in its future."
Wild said Mike Broeker, currently deputy athletic director, had been named acting athletic director. He said the university would launch a national search for a permanent AD in fall.
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This is why Buzz was limited with his words last night. Timing was a bummer.
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Statement from Marquette:
Wild said Mike Broeker, currently deputy athletic director, had been named acting athletic director. He said the university would launch a national search for a permanent AD in fall.
Hopefully we get an AD that has built up his school's football program
BOOM!
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Translation: I know lots of stuff that you guys don't know. The line to praise me starts on the left.
Nah, just reading between the lines from 2000 miles away.
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No Merrit, the translation is that some of us are capable of not having our heads in the sand and can take off our blue and gold glasses every once in awhile.
I bleed blue and gold as much as anyone on this board. So are many other people that are attacked ad nauseum because they want to hold our school to a standard befitting it. That's the translation.
MU is not perfect, no one expects it to be perfect. Anytime human beings are involved there will be errors in judgement at times...that's ok...that's life. I love MU, I'm sure you do as well. We just have a different viewpoint on how things should be done. For that viewpoint (shared by some others here), we are attacked. That seems wrong on so many levels.
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Seems like either he actually did something wrong in handling the recent issues, or he is playing the role of scapegoat
Or he does not agree with how it was handled and resigned based on his own beliefs.
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he's peacin' to save his own ass
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"Al Davis said it best, Just Win Baby, Win."
Al Davis....nothing more need be said. Hopefully we aspire to be something better than Al Davis
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Wild said Mike Broeker, currently deputy athletic director, had been named acting athletic director. He said the university would launch a national search for a permanent AD in fall.
Fool me once.....
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This is why Buzz was limited with his words last night. Timing was a bummer.
I highly doubt that is why Buzz did what he did. I think you are reading way more into whatever Buzz did.
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http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/additional/large/office_space_kit_mat.jpg
Whole lot of this going on.
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Question:
Will Marquette get greater or fewer than the 60 applications it publicized that it had received the last time it had "launched a national search" for AD and should applicants trust that Marquette is actually serious about considering candidates not from Marquette / friends of Fr. Wild?
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well, since not having all the facts hasn't stopped people from speculating in the past, i'm assuming we are going to see the full spectrum on the board. From Cottingham leaving because of his involvement in the handling of the recent incidents, all the way to the other end and Cottingham leaving because he didn't agree with the way the situation was handled/buzz conflicts/aspects of recruiting - and all points between the two.
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Too bad. As is typical, I have a suspicion that we will never know the real reason, but some here will try to convince us otherwise.
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Too bad. As is typical, I have a suspicion that we will never know the real reason, but some here will try to convince us otherwise.
What else are message boards good for??
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Quote from: BigDaddy84 on Today at 02:06:53 PM
This is why Buzz was limited with his words last night. Timing was a bummer.
I highly doubt that is why Buzz did what he did. I think you are reading way more into whatever Buzz did.
Can anyone confirm if Scottingham was at Buzz's BBQ?
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What else are message boards good for??
Fair point.
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Dude has a fairly large and young family.
Could be he doesn't want to be away from them too much, flying to different events, etc..
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Was Cottingham forced out?
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Kudos for Chicos for calling MU out when they hired him, but a lot of people did too.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8997.0
In reading back over that thread, I wonder if he never really wanted the job. According to bma, Wild just waited him out until he took it. (He served 14 months as interim.) He took it...Wild retires...Cottingham leaves.
This could be simply that he never really wanted the job and now that there is a new President, he decided to move on.
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Cottingham is a smart guy and turned out to be a great AD.
Regardless if you have a feigned mindset of what you think C-ham did or did not do during hirings, firings, marketing, etc.
The results were good and we are still roaring in the BE with new sporting prospects, if Buzz continues to pan out and we gain a stable national b-ball rep, we owe him a lot for keeping the program stable and not falling off after Crean punked us.
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Question:
Will Marquette get greater or fewer than the 60 applications it publicized that it had received the last time it had "launched a national search" for AD and should applicants trust that Marquette is actually serious about considering candidates not from Marquette / friends of Fr. Wild?
The bigger question in my mind is, of the 60 they got last time how many did they even bother to call? Some indications in the press were none. I hope that isn't true, but that's what two outlets stated.
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Al Davis....nothing more need be said. Hopefully we aspire to be something better than Al Davis
NFL Hall of Famer
AFL Coach of the Year
AFL Commissioner, large part in creating modern NFL
NFL Executive of the Year
Three-time NFL Champion
Five-time AFC Champion
First to hire a black head coach
First to hire a Hispanic head coach
First to put a woman in a position of authority in the NFL
What an unaccomplished loser.
Al Davis is way past his prime in the NFL, but when all is said and done, he'll rightly go down as one of the most influential and important figures in league history.
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Here, this ain't so hard. Strong will simply pick who Cords tells him to choose.
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Jeff Goodman tweets:
"AD Steve Cottingham resigned. Should be the quickest AD search in the history of AD searches. In-house. Mike Broeker."
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Was Broecker the RoneyEford dude who got po'd and left the board?
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I don't think he is the roneyeford guy, but could be wrong. Who picks the new AD, Father Wild? Pilarz? Board of Trustees?
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Was Broecker the RoneyEford dude who got po'd and left the board?
Nope. Different AD staffer.
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Thanks for locking up Buzz, Steve. Good luck.
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If they hire anyone out of the SID area, they are morons. They may be the worst SID department I have seen in major college sports.
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No idea why he left. Personally, it's a tough job with a lot of scrutiny and your job is on the line based on the actions of 18 - 22 year old kids, often neurotic coaches that are millionaires, alumni that are very opinionated (I include myself in that camp), etc, etc. You're job is the subject of talk radio, the newspaper, internet, etc.
That is not for everyone. Steve's a nice guy who I enjoyed my brief working encounters when I was there. He's smart, well grounded, solid attorney, etc. I'm sure he's going to be fine. Whether the events of the last few months spurred this movement, who knows. My only hope is MU does a serious search, brings in someone that is a strong AD that has power over the men's basketball program and will position us for the future. A future that looks like football is a requirement (and we aren't going to have it), a future where the Big East may not exist in it's current form, etc, etc.
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Cottingham is a smart guy and turned out to be a great AD.
Regardless if you have a feigned mindset of what you think C-ham did or did not do during hirings, firings, marketing, etc.
The results were good and we are still roaring in the BE with new sporting prospects, if Buzz continues to pan out and we gain a stable national b-ball rep, we owe him a lot for keeping the program stable and not falling off after Crean punked us.
He is a bright guy and did a good job as AD. However, I interacted with him personally on several occasions and each time came away somewhat surprised that he was the AD at a Division I, Big East university with the athletic legacy of Marquette. That sounds much worse than I meant it to. My point is that it takes a very particular kind of person to be a big-time AD and he did not strike me as that kind of individual. That said, I wish him the best of luck in the future and thank him for his contributions to Marquette.
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Jeff Goodman tweets:
"AD Steve Cottingham resigned. Should be the quickest AD search in the history of AD searches. In-house. Mike Broeker."
+1
Broeker or the return of Craig Pintens.
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+1
Broeker or the return of Craig Pintens.
Either of those would be outstanding hires, IMO.
I know there's much more to it, but Mike has the perfect personality for an AD. They could do a lot worse.
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He was a nebbish.
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While I hate the fact that our program is anything but stable, this news doesn't bother me. Never liked the Cottingham appointment. There was no process and he was never the right choice for long term success. Always struck me as a dopey-looking, book-smart, middle of the country, better as a lawyer in the back shadows type of guy. Considering how MU handles their business it's clear that Broeker is odds on for the job.
More intriguing aspect is that Buzz just went from holding MU's ankles in May to holding MU's balls today. Be interesting to watch how he parlays his leverage.
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79Warrior
Registered User
All American
Posts: 1363
Re: Cottingham out as AD?
« Reply #24 on: Today at 02:54:11 PM » Quote
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Quote from: BigDaddy84 on Today at 02:06:53 PM
This is why Buzz was limited with his words last night. Timing was a bummer.
I highly doubt that is why Buzz did what he did. I think you are reading way more into whatever Buzz did.
Warrior you are entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts...this is a fact.
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More intriguing aspect is that Buzz just went from holding MU's ankles in May to holding MU's balls today. Be interesting to watch how he parlays his leverage.
I wouldn't feel like I had power if the two of the three people that signed my last contract are leaving the university.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=6723894
ESPN article.....
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More intriguing aspect is that Buzz just went from holding MU's ankles in May to holding MU's balls today. Be interesting to watch how he parlays his leverage.
Yes, there are some coaches that are 'above' their AD. Buzz is not one of them. Not even close, in fact. Add 20 more years and a NC and then I'd agree with you.
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I wouldn't feel like I had power if the two of the three people that signed my last contract are leaving the university.
Flip it around: two of the three people that he is indebted to forever are gone. There is no sentiment left in his position. When people were worried he'd leave in April they placed faith in him repaying Cottingham for taking a chance on him. That's gone. And its gone all the way to the top. Now, it's strictly dollars and Pilarz knows it which means Broeker is inside horse to replace that bond.
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Wow. No transition ("I will stay on until a replacement is found"), no two week notice, his name is already off the masthead, not even a thank you for your service. Just a reference to the incidents in his resignation letter to Wild. I thought Steve did an excellent job on the business side and he hired great recruiters, but he was pretty obviously run off and it was a surprise as he is listed in the just released 2011-12 Visitor's Guide.
So, Broeker is the guy for the entire year. These jobs change in the summer and MU is not beginning the search until the fall. Obviously he was not tainted in this or Cords or someone else would be put over the department during the transition. Up to the new President, but you would have to think it is his job to lose unless this spreads more than it has.
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Wow. No transition ("I will stay on until a replacement is found"), no two week notice, his name is already off the masthead, not even a thank you for your service. Just a reference to the incidents in his resignation letter to Wild. I thought Steve did an excellent job on the business side and he hired great recruiters, but he was pretty obviously run off and it was a surprise as he is listed in the just released 2011-12 Visitor's Guide.
So, Broeker is the guy for the entire year. These jobs change in the summer and MU is not beginning the search until the fall. Obviously he was not tainted in this or Cords or someone else would be put over the department during the transition. Up to the new President, but you would have to think it is his job to lose unless this spreads more than it has.
Good analysis - pretty sad that a guy who had done a good job, can be toppled from his position due to a he said/she said case, a negative article in the Chicago Tribune, and some overly self-righteous alums/possible donors who were ashamed by MU following the same policy its followed while under Bill Cords watch/Wild's watch and even DiUlio's watch - with regard to Public Safety/MPD protocols.
And I actually agree with Avalanche's statement (though I think forever indebted is a little over the top)
Flip it around: two of the three people that he is indebted to forever are gone. There is no sentiment left in his position. When people were worried he'd leave in April they placed faith in him repaying Cottingham for taking a chance on him. That's gone. And its gone all the way to the top. Now, it's strictly dollars and Pilarz knows it which means Broeker is inside horse to replace that bond.
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Not that I'm happy to see him go, but I think this is appropriate.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/20268/the-office-goodbye-toby (http://www.hulu.com/watch/20268/the-office-goodbye-toby)
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Flip it around: two of the three people that he is indebted to forever are gone. There is no sentiment left in his position. When people were worried he'd leave in April they placed faith in him repaying Cottingham for taking a chance on him. That's gone. And its gone all the way to the top. Now, it's strictly dollars and Pilarz knows it which means Broeker is inside horse to replace that bond.
Fair point, but I would argue that the value of the contract plus the loyalty meant more than loyalty alone.
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1. Cottingham didn't really want the job. He was talked into taking it by Fr. Wild. Fr. Wild is leaving. Perhaps Cottingham never grew to love the job.
2. He is the fall guy for the incidents of the past 10 months.
I believe that both factor in here. Good luck and thank you for your work for MU. IMO, unless Buzz and the new AD simply do not get along, this has no affect on the length of Buzz's tenure.
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Broeker is OK .. but MU needs an infusion of new blood. Do a real, national search, get someone with a new, different perspective.
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Broeker is OK .. but MU needs an infusion of new blood. Do a real, national search, get someone with a new, different perspective.
Why? If MU's athletics were struggling, or even stagnant, I'd agree.
But things by and large are going well. Why mess with (relative) success?
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Thank you Steve Cottingham. Any MU student athlete there during his tenure knows how much he did for them and the growth of MU sports. He will be sorely missed. During my time there he showed increased support to myself and my team. He traveled to events and our Big East Conference Championships, something that didn't happen prior to his arrival. He made some fantastic hires and brought a new excitement to the athletic department. Oh, and Mike Broeker spent my entire freshman year mis-spelling my name. Hope they open up the search to find someone as good as Steve.
-Mike Van Sickle
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Thank you Steve Cottingham. Any MU student athlete there during his tenure knows how much he did for them and the growth of MU sports. He will be sorely missed. During my time there he showed increased support to myself and my team. He traveled to events and our Big East Conference Championships, something that didn't happen prior to his arrival. He made some fantastic hires and brought a new excitement to the athletic department. Oh, and Mike Broeker spent my entire freshman year mis-spelling my name. Hope they open up the search to find someone as good as Steve.
-Mike Van Sickle
+1
I'd say thank you to Steve for having the foresight and balls to hire Buzz Williams - as we know many were skeptical - and it couldn't have been anymore of a home run hire 3 years into Buzz's tenure at MU.
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79Warrior
Registered User
All American
Posts: 1363
Re: Cottingham out as AD?
« Reply #24 on: Today at 02:54:11 PM » Quote
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Quote from: BigDaddy84 on Today at 02:06:53 PM
This is why Buzz was limited with his words last night. Timing was a bummer.
I highly doubt that is why Buzz did what he did. I think you are reading way more into whatever Buzz did.
Warrior you are entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts...this is a fact.
I never said it was a fact. apparently, only you know it is a fact. good for you.
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Broeker is OK .. but MU needs an infusion of new blood. Do a real, national search, get someone with a new, different perspective.
I don't think things are that bad, but do a national search anyway. Can't do any harm.
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+1
I'd say thank you to Steve for having the foresight and balls to hire Buzz Williams - as we know many were skeptical - and it couldn't have been anymore of a home run hire 3 years into Buzz's tenure at MU.
I think you're giving Steve a little too much credit in the hiring process.
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If there is any merit to the Chicago Tribune article, then Quade should be the person getting forced out...not Steve Cot. According to the article, she was the person who advised the victim from going to MPD. Again, this is based on the fact that the article was accurate.
All I know is that this whole incident is very unfortunate. With the circumstances of this crime being a he said/she said situation, we will never know what truly happened. This troubles me because if Steve was forced out, and a crime never even happened, then that is tragic. It also troubles me to know that a crime may have been committed and those involved are still allowed to play even though they may be guilty. This is a bad situation that obviously was handled very poorly and as a result, someone had to face the consequences. What really hurts the program now is that with Steve resigning, the whole story has been brought to a national level (see first headline under ncaa basketball on ESPN). Hopefully this does not send our program or university in the wrong direction.
Can we ever have a prolonged period of time when there is peace and relaxation at MU? Seems like there is always some rumor/scandal these days :(
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I think you're giving Steve a little too much credit in the hiring process.
I like Steve, but very much agree with this.
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Here's wishing Steve and his family the best. He's a very good man dedicated to the success of MU athletics.
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Thank you Steve Cottingham. Any MU student athlete there during his tenure knows how much he did for them and the growth of MU sports. He will be sorely missed. During my time there he showed increased support to myself and my team. He traveled to events and our Big East Conference Championships, something that didn't happen prior to his arrival. He made some fantastic hires and brought a new excitement to the athletic department. Oh, and Mike Broeker spent my entire freshman year mis-spelling my name. Hope they open up the search to find someone as good as Steve.
-Mike Van Sickle
Does misspelling usually have a hyphen?
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I don't think things are that bad, but do a national search anyway. Can't do any harm.
To Sultan, Pakuni .. I didn't say things are bad at all .. I'd say the opposite: things are running smoothly at a high level. That doesn't preclude a new guy at the top, providing fresh perspective with new ideas to push us further up.
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Thank you Steve Cottingham. Any MU student athlete there during his tenure knows how much he did for them and the growth of MU sports. He will be sorely missed. During my time there he showed increased support to myself and my team. He traveled to events and our Big East Conference Championships, something that didn't happen prior to his arrival. He made some fantastic hires and brought a new excitement to the athletic department. Oh, and Mike Broeker spent my entire freshman year mis-spelling my name. Hope they open up the search to find someone as good as Steve.
-Mike Van Sickle
You mean Grogan didn't travel to all meets?
Anyway, tell us what you're up to now?
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To Sultan, Pakuni .. I didn't say things are bad at all .. I'd say the opposite: things are running smoothly at a high level. That doesn't preclude a new guy at the top, providing fresh perspective with new ideas to push us further up.
You said "needs an infusion of new blood." That implies things are stale. Sometimes an outside perspective is exactly the wrong thing. If MU is going along with a mission and a vision for where it wants its athletic department to go, brining in someone else might unnecessarily derail something that is going well.
But that still doesn't mean a national search isn't appropriate.
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Time to start my HIRE CRAIG PINTENS campaign...
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You said "needs an infusion of new blood." That implies things are stale. Sometimes an outside perspective is exactly the wrong thing. If MU is going along with a mission and a vision for where it wants its athletic department to go, brining in someone else might unnecessarily derail something that is going well.
But that still doesn't mean a national search isn't appropriate.
Not sure why you want to paint my comments as something negative. I am not trying to express that attitude.
"Sometimes an outside perspective is the exactly wrong thing." Yep. Sometimes.
BTW, TMJ4 had Broeker on for a few seconds tonight.
1. It's a real head scratcher why Cotty resigned. The way the stories have been told up till now, is the blame was primarily with Public Safety, not reporting events to the police. MU is not a scapegoating kind of institution. Now Cotty resigns in an abrupt manner. Cotty could have left in many other ways .. waited a few months .. explain he wanted to get back into litigation .. yadda yadda. Makes a guy wonder ...
2. TMJ4 reported that MU is beginning a national search, to hopefully conclude before basketball season begins.
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To Sultan, Pakuni .. I didn't say things are bad at all .. I'd say the opposite: things are running smoothly at a high level. That doesn't preclude a new guy at the top, providing fresh perspective with new ideas to push us further up.
I don't necessarily think you meant things were bad, but saying things like "needs an infusion of new blood" and "needs a different perspective," it definitely implies that you're seeking a change in direction. IMO, MU's general direction is not in need of changing. Some things could improve, for sure, but overall the athletic department is doing well. A national search and bringing in someone from the outside is fine, but there's no need, IMO, for a different perspective.
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Cottingham may have done some good things, but I'm for one not upset that he's gone. Based on my interactions with the man, he never came across as very nice nor outgoing.
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What's with the board-boner for pintens?
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The MJS this morning pretty much said that there was some inappropriate interference by members of the AD...and insinuates Buzz was one of them.
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The MJS this morning pretty much said that there was some inappropriate interference by members of the AD...and insinuates Buzz was one of them.
Iterference? No, it did not state that. It said that the coaches were inappropriately notified about the incident and they should not have. It did not say there was "interference". Words have meanings ...
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Cottingham may have done some good things, but I'm for one not upset that he's gone. Based on my interactions with the man, he never came across as very nice nor outgoing.
Were you looking for a new friend?
That's one of the last things I'd worry about in my AD. He made some very wise choices in Buzz, Bond Shymansky, Golf coach......you'll notice a trend between C-ham's coaches...GOOD RECRUITING.
Cottingham put a premium on a coach who could recruit and I liked his philosophy of grabbing young, motivated, program sellers for coaches.
Thanks again for all you've done for MU Cottingham.
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What's with the board-boner for pintens?
If you don't know, you can't afford it.
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The MJS this morning pretty much said that there was some inappropriate interference by members of the AD...and insinuates Buzz was one of them.
Link? Can't find anything like that, at least online.
And it would be odd, given that the Milwaukee DA's statement said exactly the opposite, that there was no attempt to interfere by any member of the coaching staff.
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Odd, because it's written out exactly in the print version of the Chicago Tribune, but I cannot find the same version online.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-marquette-athletic-director-resigns-20110630,0,1297885.story
But the print version also says
Marquette administrators have acknowledged the athletic department inappropriately responded to an October case of sexual assault involving athletes.
The school has publicly criticized a meeting between coaches and the four accused athletes. Though staff has not been accused of interfering with the investigation, authorities say the gathering offered an opportunity for players to compare stories before law enforcement interviewed them independently.
One athlete sent a text message to the victim during the meeting, asking if she had made a report to campus security, according to officials.
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Iterference? No, it did not state that. It said that the coaches were inappropriately notified about the incident and they should not have. It did not say there was "interference". Words have meanings ...
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/124829839.html
"Asked twice if he was reprimanded, Williams did not answer. Said Broeker: "The coaches in that program, the coaches in said program, were reprimanded through, as I said, to the head coach who, in all of our programs, is accountable, as we said before."
So, you don't think this infers anything???
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If we do do a national search, what are we looking for? We are not going to get a sitting AD at a school with football. I think we need to define if this job is better than being the AD at a basketball school like Xavier, Butler, VCU? The budget that we have seems to suggest that it might be.
I think that Broeker may be the best bet as he knows his way around, has a relationship with Buzz (maybe i shouldn't assume that, but you would think he does). It seems like most people on the board thought SCottingham was a great guy, but maybe didn't have the charisma needed to be an AD at a Big East school, it seems like Broeker has that charisma. As noted by other posters it is not like we have been going in the wrong direction as an athletic department, so maybe staying in house is a good idea.
All of that being said, i don't think we will know if Broeker is the best man for the job until we see the list of finalists for the job.
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Could someone define "reprimand" as used in this context. Limit on sweet tea or chew?
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Could someone define "reprimand" as used in this context. Limit on sweet tea or chew?
reprimand in this case means a new $2.5 million contract.
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/124829839.html
"Asked twice if he was reprimanded, Williams did not answer. Said Broeker: "The coaches in that program, the coaches in said program, were reprimanded through, as I said, to the head coach who, in all of our programs, is accountable, as we said before."
So, you don't think this infers anything???
It's impossible for it to infer anything. And I don't think it implies what you are inferring.
From where are you drawing such an inference, especially in light of direct comments (no inference necessary) from the Milwaukee DA saying the exact opposite.
http://media.jsonline.com/documents/Chisholm_Marquette_letter.pdf
Seems to me someone is trying to find wrongdoing that doesn't exist. MU handled the situation poorly enough. No need to invent things to be critical about.
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If we do do a national search, what are we looking for? We are not going to get a sitting AD at a school with football. I think we need to define if this job is better than being the AD at a basketball school like Xavier, Butler, VCU? The budget that we have seems to suggest that it might be.
Here is my biggest concern, which addresses what we might be looking for.
The Big EAST is not a very stable league. Will it blow up with the football members leaving? Will it add more members? How will the TV contracts play in all of this?
I'd like to know that the AD has a plan. Maybe that the AD has some relationships with the right people. The politics and power will be huge.
Maybe Broeker is the right guy. But with all those issues looming, MU does nothing but benefit itself to listen to other candidates and see who might have the best approach.
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Yes, there are some coaches that are 'above' their AD. Buzz is not one of them. Not even close, in fact. Add 20 more years and a NC and then I'd agree with you.
Why would you say this?
I get the sense Buzz answers to one guy...MU's President. MU has decided in the last 10+ years to put most of its eggs in the basketball basket and in doing so has given their coaches incredible power. Given that it results in our name on the marquee at Madison Square Garden several times a year, it's for the most part a good move, for the most part.
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If we do do a national search, what are we looking for? We are not going to get a sitting AD at a school with football. I think we need to define if this job is better than being the AD at a basketball school like Xavier, Butler, VCU? The budget that we have seems to suggest that it might be.
I think that Broeker may be the best bet as he knows his way around, has a relationship with Buzz (maybe i shouldn't assume that, but you would think he does). It seems like most people on the board thought SCottingham was a great guy, but maybe didn't have the charisma needed to be an AD at a Big East school, it seems like Broeker has that charisma. As noted by other posters it is not like we have been going in the wrong direction as an athletic department, so maybe staying in house is a good idea.
All of that being said, i don't think we will know if Broeker is the best man for the job until we see the list of finalists for the job.
Jeff Hathaway from UConn. But I put the odds of us landing him at 0
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I guess I still don't see why the meeting with the players after the Oct. incident was such a problem. I understand why the DA thinks it was, but it comes back to the fact that both DPS and the girl decided to not report it to MPD. So what are the coaches supposed to do? The necessary people already decided they weren't reporting it, so does the coach just ignore it forever?
I would expect the coach to get those players in his office ASAP, chew them out, and let them know they're in for some serious discipline. It seems like that's exactly what happened here. Then one of the players gets nervous wondering how the coach found out and texts the girl (who he obviously knew beforehand if he was texting her) asking if she reported it to DPS.
The DA even acknowledged that the coaches didn't do anything to try and interfere, just that getting the players together gave them an opportunity to get their story straight. They could have done that anyway, and probably did, since they all obviously know each other already and live nearby in the same dorm.
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The DA even acknowledged that the coaches didn't do anything to try and interfere, just that getting the players together gave them an opportunity to get their story straight. They could have done that anyway, and probably did, since they all obviously know each other already and live nearby in the same dorm.
This.
The notion that meeting with their coach somehow gave them a unique opportunity to get their story straight is absurd.
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This.
The notion that meeting with their coach somehow gave them a unique opportunity to get their story straight is absurd.
+1 as well. Those guys almost live together/eat together/etc. The concept of "let's get our story straight" does not take an advanced degree to conceive of.
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/124829839.html
"Asked twice if he was reprimanded, Williams did not answer. Said Broeker: "The coaches in that program, the coaches in said program, were reprimanded through, as I said, to the head coach who, in all of our programs, is accountable, as we said before."
So, you don't think this infers anything???
You certainly are fast and loosee with your terminology. Where, again, does it state they "interfered"? As far as I can tell, they were reprimanded and no reasons were provided as to why. You assume it is "interference"? Try not to jump to conclusions (or infer) that are damning without evidence.
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Pakuni. He was reprimanded for something it seems. Nothing illegal but likely against MU policy.
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You guys owe me a beer - I said in 1999 that in the next 15 years, we will lose 2 ADs. BAM.
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Good analysis - pretty sad that a guy who had done a good job, can be toppled from his position due to a he said/she said case, a negative article in the Chicago Tribune, and some overly self-righteous alums/possible donors who were ashamed by MU following the same policy its followed while under Bill Cords watch/Wild's watch and even DiUlio's watch - with regard to Public Safety/MPD protocols.
And I actually agree with Avalanche's statement (though I think forever indebted is a little over the top)
Exactly what would it take for you to take a step back one day and acknowledge that not only were mistakes made but MU looked pretty poor on this whole thing?
Let's recap. In March, the school is on the front pages of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and all four evening newscasts for sexual assault allegations by 4 student athletes which pretty much most scuttlebutt indicates at least 3 were basketball players.
About 6 weeks later MU is reprimanded publicly by the District Attorney and the Milwaukee Police department for acting inappropriately, not following proper procedures which could have either proven the players innocence or proven her story. Instead we are left in limbo and no one knows.
Then a mere few weeks later we're on the front page, top story in the largest newspaper in the Midwest (3rd largest city in the USA) and a fertile recruiting ground for MU's general student population. Another sexual assault allegation and again Marquette's policies make the school look foolish. The woman left the school. MU is forced to publicly apologize again, the third time now, and is staring down some cash payments to this young woman (potentially women).
Fast forward a mere two weeks later and our Athletic Director resigns without many details.
A logical person would chalk up all these items and would say this hasn't exactly been a wonderful last three months. That fails to even mention Vander's court proceedings and high profile attorney Gerald Boyle's involvement.
You may choose to ignore these things. Others are playing the game as well here in this thread and others. I'm sorry, but when you add up 1 + another + another + another + another all in that short time space, MU has some issues. They're working to correct them, but a black eye was delivered and well deserved. Sometimes the institutions we love have to get their clock cleaned a little bit to reform and take out the trash.
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Pakuni. He was reprimanded for something it seems. Nothing illegal but likely against MU policy.
Which would eliminate interfering with a criminal, or potential criminal, investigation, as you've repeatedly suggested was possible.
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Exactly what would it take for you to take a step back one day and acknowledge that not only were mistakes made but MU looked pretty poor on this whole thing?
Let's recap. In March, the school is on the front pages of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and all four evening newscasts for sexual assault allegations by 4 student athletes which pretty much most scuttlebutt indicates at least 3 were basketball players.
About 6 weeks later MU is reprimanded publicly by the District Attorney and the Milwaukee Police department for acting inappropriately, not following proper procedures which could have either proven the players innocence or proven her story. Instead we are left in limbo and no one knows.
Then a mere few weeks later we're on the front page, top story in the largest newspaper in the Midwest (3rd largest city in the USA) and a fertile recruiting ground for MU's general student population. Another sexual assault allegation and again Marquette's policies make the school look foolish. The woman left the school. MU is forced to publicly apologize again, the third time now, and is staring down some cash payments to this young woman (potentially women).
Fast forward a mere two weeks later and our Athletic Director resigns without many details.
A logical person would chalk up all these items and would say this hasn't exactly been a wonderful last three months. That fails to even mention Vander's court proceedings and high profile attorney Gerald Boyle's involvement.
You may choose to ignore these things. Others are playing the game as well here in this thread and others. I'm sorry, but when you add up 1 + another + another + another + another all in that short time space, MU has some issues. They're working to correct them, but a black eye was delivered and well deserved. Sometimes the institutions we love have to get their clock cleaned a little bit to reform and take out the trash.
And what would it take for you to not exaggerate the negativity pertaining to the basketball team? So Vander Blue punched another student who challenged him - wow - amazing something like 18 year olds getting into a fight. Huge problem at MU. Next the Chicago Tribune/MKE Police reprimand pertained to the same story - you know - the one where the "victim" was given the choice to go to police and chose not to. The same victim that began the evening in question, consensually, but apparently somewhere mid-thrust changed her mind? Stable.
MU has taking a beating far worse than it deserves in this case, due to the fact it didn't adamently defend its action/handling of the case. As for the October case - I don't know much about it - but again, the girl chose not to go to police, and I highly doubt DPS is going to ignore a girl who got raped, with clear evidence to illustrate as much - just to protect a few basketball players.
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The same victim that began the evening in question, consensually, but apparently somewhere mid-thrust changed her mind? Stable.
In a court of law this is still considered rape. No really does mean no...even among spouses and even "mid-thrust" btw.
To deride the person involved is reckless on your part and highly insensitive. Sorry but you crossed the line there pal.
I somehow feel that if this was being said about a player from ND, Louisville, etc you'd be screaming about the school/player getting away with it.
This whole thing has a lot of stink on it and I for one am embarrassed that it happened at my Jesuit school....we're supposed to be better than that.
Somehow not surprised given Wild's complicity and history of cover up of sexual scandals among priests in the past.
Open your eyes and take off the blue and gold sunglasses.....this is not what I would have expected of my Alma Mater.
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In a court of law this is still considered rape. No really does mean no...even among spouses and even "mid-thrust" btw.
To deride the person involved is reckless on your part and highly insensitive. Sorry but you crossed the line there pal.
I somehow feel that if this was being said about a player from ND, Louisville, etc you'd be screaming about the school/player getting away with it.
This whole thing has a lot of stink on it and I for one am embarrassed that it happened at my Jesuit school....we're supposed to be better than that.
Somehow not surprised given Wild's complicity and history of cover up of sexual scandals among priests in the past.
Open your eyes and take off the blue and gold sunglasses.....this is not what I would have expected of my Alma Mater.
Sorry pal, but unless you were in that room that night, you don't know any more about what actually transpired than do I. Nor do you know if the athlete in question did actually stop, but perhaps 3 thrusts too late. The girl had the choice to go to the police - if she wasn't satisfied with the answer DPS gave her, there was nothing standing in her way of going to the police. DPS offered her that course of action - why didn't she take it?
And unlike you, I do not believe Jesuit schools are better than being above a he said/she said situation - this type of thing can happen anywhere, anytime. Perhaps you need to put on your blue and gold colored glasses, and stop convicting the athlete of something they weren't convicted for.
And no - I could care less what happens at Notre Dame, Lville, West Virginia or wherever - because 1) I'm not a Marquette elitist, but realist, and I realize to be immune from any form of athlete scandal in this day and age is just flat out ignorant, and 2) Am far from being self righteous unlike some, perhaps you.
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You guys owe me a beer - I said in 1999 that in the next 15 years, we will lose 2 ADs. BAM.
Post of the year. Outstanding!
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My questions to you are: were you there? Have you ever seen a sexual assault trial first hand...not on TV?
The real facts are that most victims of sexual assault do not go to the police. In the case of female college students the percentage is much higher than the norm. Many college age women in said circumstances do not want to face public humiliation and all too often are portrayed as "wanting it" rather than being the victims that they are. The Marquette community is small and it's not hard to understand why a female student would not want to face the scrutiny/embarrassment that would surely follow, especially when a BB player(s) is involved.
Spend a little time in a family violence court room and you might soften your stance. It's not a pretty place and will alter your perception of what the real world is truly all about and I'm not talking about the underbelly.....it happens in even the most affluent neighborhoods.
And no, I am not self righteous in any way, in fact just the opposite.
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My questions to you are: were you there? Have you ever seen a sexual assault trial first hand...not on TV?
The real facts are that most victims of sexual assault do not go to the police. In the case of female college students the percentage is much higher than the norm. Many college age women in said circumstances do not want to face public humiliation and all too often are portrayed as "wanting it" rather than being the victims that they are. The Marquette community is small and it's not hard to understand why a female student would not want to face the scrutiny/embarrassment that would surely follow, especially when a BB player(s) is involved.
Spend a little time in a family violence court room and you might soften your stance. It's not a pretty place and will alter your perception of what the real world is truly all about and I'm not talking about the underbelly.....it happens in even the most affluent neighborhoods.
And no, I am not self righteous in any way, in fact just the opposite.
Yet she went to DPS? That is where I do not follow your argument. She went to DPS and pursued it. Eventually went to the police, but many months later. I don't see where the argument about "public humiliation" concern sticks here.
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I'm with Ners on this. Shaky cases, Public Safety acted accordingly. Had the incidents gone to MPD immediately, there's a decent chance, perhaps probability, that no charges would be filed.
The grade MU gets for PR in the last 30 days was probably a C+ .. Cotty leaving the way he did lowers that to a D.
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Sorry pal, but unless you were in that room that night, you don't know any more about what actually transpired than do I.
And yet you continually make statements as if you were in the room and know exactly what transpired.
or do you know if the athlete in question did actually stop, but perhaps 3 thrusts too late.
First, I'm not aware of any "3 free thrusts" exception to any rape or sexual assault law.
Nonetheless, even if there were such an exception--YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!!
Your suggestion that it was only "perhaps 3 thrusts too late" is a complete and utter fabrication. For all you know, the athlete may have kept the girl pinned on the bed for another 20 minutes after she wanted out.
The girl had the choice to go to the police - if she wasn't satisfied with the answer DPS gave her, there was nothing standing in her way of going to the police. DPS offered her that course of action - why didn't she take it?
Nothing except maybe the fear of an athlete (or his friends, or merely some drunk basketball fan) beating the crap out of her in retaliation for going to the police.
You simply don't know why the girl didn't go to the police--because YOU WEREN"T IN THE ROOM!. So please stop fabricating the conclusion that the only reason she didn't go to the MPD is that she thought there was no crime.
And unlike you, I do not believe Jesuit schools are better than being above a he said/she said situation - this type of thing can happen anywhere, anytime. Perhaps you need to put on your blue and gold colored glasses, and stop convicting the athlete of something they weren't convicted for.
You don't know if it was a he said/she said situation--because once again, YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!!! You fabricated the entire "he said/she said" story (just like you fabricated the "only 3 thrusts too late" and the "she had the chance to go to the police" stories) because they all fit what you WANT the story to be.
Finally, you also fabricate the counter argument that someone is "convicting" the athlete. Nobody here has "convicted" the athlete. What people are upset about is that Marquette's actions--whether intentional or merely inept-- have forever PREVENTED the truth from becoming known.
I said in my first post on the subject, a proper investigation may well have exonerated the athlete if he truly was innocent and being falsely accused. I find it funny that you can't even bring yourself to agree with that simple and seemingly non-controversial statement.
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I'm with Ners on this. Shaky cases, Public Safety acted accordingly. Had the incidents gone to MPD immediately, there's a decent chance, perhaps probability, that no charges would be filed.
The grade MU gets for PR in the last 30 days was probably a C+ .. Cotty leaving the way he did lowers that to a D.
Having Buzz and Broeker up there at a press conference to be the "face" of the university and then not being able to answer questions due to privacy issues....brings it down to a F. What was the point of having this presser if all they are doing is adding gas to the fire? "Hi, we're here to answer questions, tell you all how much we think Sexual Assault is really icky and be the face of the university but any question you ask we won't answer and will only add to the speculation of who was involved". WTF. Why even have that exchange with the press.
We're starting to look worse than UW-Madison's corrupt football and hockey programs over the years. I'm surprised we didn't come flat out and do the Badger thing and simply suspend the coaches and players for a practice..they typical Barry Alvarez czar of punishment routine. Beat up another student...suspended for a practice but don't worry, you can lace them up for the game against Purdue at Camp Randall. DUI, no problem..that's two practices that you are suspended for.
Anyone find it ironic that the coaches and players were reprimanded\disciplined when they didn't "do anything wrong" according to some here. What were they reprimanded for exactly if nothing happened as some imply? ::) Aren't you disciplined and reprimanded as a RESULT of doing something wrong? Of course, but that little nuance is lost so often here.
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Anyone find it ironic that the coaches and players were reprimanded\disciplined when they didn't "do anything wrong" according to some here. What were they reprimanded for exactly if nothing happened as some imply? ::) Aren't you disciplined and reprimanded as a RESULT of doing something wrong? Of course, but that little nuance is lost so often here.
No an accurate statement. Most people here have said we do not know what or why the "discipline" was for. We have seen more like you that have convicted without complete facts. That is ironic, isn't?
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No an accurate statement. Most people here have said we do not know what or why the "discipline" was for. We have seen more like you that have convicted without complete facts. That is ironic, isn't?
Just because the details weren't spelled out, the mere fact that there was a publicly stated need for discipline, reprimands or even just "blunt conversations"--that's enough to refute the belief by some here that nobody did anything wrong.
You don't hold a "blunt conversation" with someone to communicate that you are pleased to tell them that they did nothing wrong.
And you don't tell the world you held a "blunt conversation" unless you were trying to tell the world "Yes, this person did something wrong, but I took action with them about it."
Fr. Wild and Stephanie Quade both made it abundantly clear that such blunt conversations where held.
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No an accurate statement. Most people here have said we do not know what or why the "discipline" was for. We have seen more like you that have convicted without complete facts. That is ironic, isn't?
1 + 1 = 2
This isn't hard and plenty of back sources have confirmed. If nothing was done wrong as so many here have said is the case, why were their reprimands? For missing a team meal? Come on. There is a very respected poster on this board that knows who was reprimanded and could put this all to rest today if he wishes to state it publicly. I'll let him decide.
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My questions to you are: were you there? Have you ever seen a sexual assault trial first hand...not on TV?
The real facts are that most victims of sexual assault do not go to the police. In the case of female college students the percentage is much higher than the norm. Many college age women in said circumstances do not want to face public humiliation and all too often are portrayed as "wanting it" rather than being the victims that they are. The Marquette community is small and it's not hard to understand why a female student would not want to face the scrutiny/embarrassment that would surely follow, especially when a BB player(s) is involved.
Spend a little time in a family violence court room and you might soften your stance. It's not a pretty place and will alter your perception of what the real world is truly all about and I'm not talking about the underbelly.....it happens in even the most affluent neighborhoods.
And no, I am not self righteous in any way, in fact just the opposite.
Fair enough Warrior - But we all know that the statement "Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned," exists for a reason. We also know the 2 parties in this case had a consensual sexual relationship for some time - that eventually ended - that the girl decided to resume on the evening in question, only to begin questioning the athlete as to "why didn't you call me?" Apparently she didn't like his answer, and then boom..all of a sudden a sexual assault occurred. If I were to just take a wild guess as the the percentage of sexual assault cases that make their way to court that involve 2 people have had a historical sexual relationship, whereby they resume said sexual relationship, whereby the eventual victims acknowledges and states that she began the act consensually, but then changed her mind mid-way through - I can't imagine 1% of all sex assault cases that get tried are of this variety??
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And yet you continually make statements as if you were in the room and know exactly what transpired.
First, I'm not aware of any "3 free thrusts" exception to any rape or sexual assault law.
Nonetheless, even if there were such an exception--YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!!
Your suggestion that it was only "perhaps 3 thrusts too late" is a complete and utter fabrication. For all you know, the athlete may have kept the girl pinned on the bed for another 20 minutes after she wanted out.
Nothing except maybe the fear of an athlete (or his friends, or merely some drunk basketball fan) beating the crap out of her in retaliation for going to the police.
You simply don't know why the girl didn't go to the police--because YOU WEREN"T IN THE ROOM!. So please stop fabricating the conclusion that the only reason she didn't go to the MPD is that she thought there was no crime.
You don't know if it was a he said/she said situation--because once again, YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!!! You fabricated the entire "he said/she said" story (just like you fabricated the "only 3 thrusts too late" and the "she had the chance to go to the police" stories) because they all fit what you WANT the story to be.
Finally, you also fabricate the counter argument that someone is "convicting" the athlete. Nobody here has "convicted" the athlete. What people are upset about is that Marquette's actions--whether intentional or merely inept-- have forever PREVENTED the truth from becoming known.
I said in my first post on the subject, a proper investigation may well have exonerated the athlete if he truly was innocent and being falsely accused. I find it funny that you can't even bring yourself to agree with that simple and seemingly non-controversial statement.
Comedy, and not going to engage with you today 84. Happy 4th of July - it is quite liberating to come to the conclusion that debating with you is a waste of time.
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YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM!!
I've heard this over and over. There were only two people in the room. This means, the story needs to be interpreted from those two parties, as each will have a perspective on what occurred.
The story goes through many versions and is told to many parties.
As close as we have to the first version, told to the first party is .. the one told to Public Safety. We also know what Public Safety's reaction to that first version was.
Perhaps the next iteration of the story was given to MU's OSA for their investigation. We know what they did, too.
Discussing it here .. since we have zero source documentation or interviews, we can only debate what's been presented by those parties, plus the Milwaukee DA, who didn't press charges.
Horse, meet water. Drink or not, that's up to you.
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Cool, posts are disappearing again...ghosts in the machine.
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My questions to you are: were you there? Have you ever seen a sexual assault trial first hand...not on TV?
The real facts are that most victims of sexual assault do not go to the police. In the case of female college students the percentage is much higher than the norm. Many college age women in said circumstances do not want to face public humiliation and all too often are portrayed as "wanting it" rather than being the victims that they are. The Marquette community is small and it's not hard to understand why a female student would not want to face the scrutiny/embarrassment that would surely follow, especially when a BB player(s) is involved.
Spend a little time in a family violence court room and you might soften your stance. It's not a pretty place and will alter your perception of what the real world is truly all about and I'm not talking about the underbelly.....it happens in even the most affluent neighborhoods.
And no, I am not self righteous in any way, in fact just the opposite.
No, this post doesn't seem self-righteous in the least.
But since you're dispensing real facts, could you please inform us of your credentials when it comes to time spent in courtrooms during sexual assault cases? And first-hand knowledge of what many college-age women are thinking?
The funny thing is, no one - not even Ners - has defended MU's handling of this. And yet some feel the need to try to out-do one another when it comes to expressing one's righteous indignation. It's not a contest.
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No an accurate statement. Most people here have said we do not know what or why the "discipline" was for. We have seen more like you that have convicted without complete facts. That is ironic, isn't?
I would be very surprised if having premartial sex is not against the MU student code of ethics. It is one of those don't ask and don't tell things. MU is not going to look under rocks to find out what any student is doing. However, if caught you are in violation of the code. That being the case (and I am just assuming it is) the players would need to be disciplined for breaking a rule, because they got caught. So saying the players were disciplined does not mean they did anything legally wrong. Just morally, which is what pre-marital sex under is in Christian doctrine and MU is a Christain school. Besides that, there is still the issue of what discipline actually was. It could just been the players being sternly told not to do it again.
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Comedy, and not going to engage with you today 84. Happy 4th of July - it is quite liberating to come to the conclusion that debating with you is a waste of time.
Of course you don't want to discuss it further.
You completely fabricated a storyline to fit your preferred narrative. And anytime you're questioned on it, you claim you are unimpeachable because nobody was in the room to know enough to prove you wrong.
I'm just using your own argument back on you. And not surprisingly, you don't like it.
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Of course you don't want to discuss it further.
You completely fabricated a storyline to fit your preferred narrative. And anytime you're questioned on it, you claim you are unimpeachable because nobody was in the room to know enough to prove you wrong.
I'm just using your own argument back on you. And not surprisingly, you don't like it.
Bingo. 100% Correct 84. You are right. Happy 4th. Actually, as I wrote earlier, I don't want to waste my time debating with someone as pot/kettle/black as you.
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Bingo. 100% Correct 84. You are right. Happy 4th. Actually, as I wrote earlier, I don't want to waste my time debating with someone as pot/kettle/black as you.
Well I'm glad you realize that a debate clearly WOULD be a waste of your time, because you DID fabricate the story to fit your outcome, and you HAVE used the "you weren't there" card on anyone who questioned you.
As I said, you don't seem to like your own argument when its turned on you.
Happy 4th to you as well.
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Hey Ners & 84, just wanted to say happy 4th to you guys too!!!!!!!!!!!
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I would be very surprised if having premartial sex is not against the MU student code of ethics. It is one of those don't ask and don't tell things. MU is not going to look under rocks to find out what any student is doing. However, if caught you are in violation of the code. That being the case (and I am just assuming it is) the players would need to be disciplined for breaking a rule, because they got caught. So saying the players were disciplined does not mean they did anything legally wrong. Just morally, which is what pre-marital sex under is in Christian doctrine and MU is a Christain school. Besides that, there is still the issue of what discipline actually was. It could just been the players being sternly told not to do it again.
Makes sense to me but that means Dwyane Wade and Siovaughan were probably hammered by the Crean and the J Board when they had Zaire in 2002 before they got married.
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Makes sense to me but that means Dwyane Wade and Siovaughan were probably hammered by the Crean and the J Board when they had Zaire in 2002 before they got married.
Not the same thing, because I do not think she was filing compaints against Wade. Basically, if there are no complaints the univerisity is not going to get involved.
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Which would eliminate interfering with a criminal, or potential criminal, investigation, as you've repeatedly suggested was possible.
If I ever suggested it was possible, it was very early on.
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If I ever suggested it was possible, it was very early on.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2011, 07:49:05 AM
The MJS this morning pretty much said that there was some inappropriate interference by members of the AD...and insinuates Buzz was one of them.
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Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2011, 07:49:05 AM
The MJS this morning pretty much said that there was some inappropriate interference by members of the AD...and insinuates Buzz was one of them.
(Quote/)Just asking. Could someone (I.e. The trustees) be pissed at Cot for signing off on Buzz's contract knowing the extent of the issues here but not bringing them to the light of the administration? When did the administration learn of all of these matters....before or after the contract?
Also, would Buzz had been canned if we didn't make the NCAA this year, because of these events?
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Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2011, 07:49:05 AM
The MJS this morning pretty much said that there was some inappropriate interference by members of the AD...and insinuates Buzz was one of them.
(Quote/)Just asking. Could someone (I.e. The trustees) be pissed at Cot for signing off on Buzz's contract knowing the extent of the issues here but not bringing them to the light of the administration? When did the administration learn of all of these matters....before or after the contract?
Also, would Buzz had been canned if we didn't make the NCAA this year, because of these events?
I'd have to think of all things being speculated, this is probably the most far-fetched. Administration was well aware of all the events that occurred well before contract extension. Furthermore, how is a flawed reporting policy/protocol (which really is the major issue here it seems) the fault of a head coach who came into a university with said protocol? Furthermore, as others here have written Quade seems to be very well-respected and certainly not someone who would give favor to the athletic department, or dismiss a girl who was truly sexually assaulted/raped...
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Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2011, 07:49:05 AM
The MJS this morning pretty much said that there was some inappropriate interference by members of the AD...and insinuates Buzz was one of them.
"Inappropriate interference" does not necessarily mean interfering in a criminal investigation.
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Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 01, 2011, 07:49:05 AM
The MJS this morning pretty much said that there was some inappropriate interference by members of the AD...and insinuates Buzz was one of them.
From what some are saying on other message boards, perhaps Sultan, Belling, the media, etc are all hearing the same thing. I don't now if the staff ran interference or contacted one of the victims (as Belling stated), but that has earned some additional legs with additional details on a few other boards in the state of Wisconsin. No idea if it's true, just pointing out what is currently being stated.
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"Inappropriate interference" does not necessarily mean interfering in a criminal investigation.
Then exactly does it mean, and how do you reconcile it with the DA's remarks?
And why are some using some of the DA's remarks to hammer MU (fairly enough, it seems) and yet ignoring remarks from the same statement that clear MU on other issues?
Seems the man's word is Gospel when it comes to criticizing Marquette, not so much when it comes to clearing Marquette.
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Then exactly does it mean, and how do you reconcile it with the DA's remarks?
You can be reprimanded for failing to follow University policy. This could fall short of criminal interference.
Seems the man's word is Gospel when it comes to criticizing Marquette, not so much when it comes to clearing Marquette.
You mean outside of the whole "failing to follow state law" thing???
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Kudos for Chicos for calling MU out when they hired him, but a lot of people did too.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8997.0
In reading back over that thread, I wonder if he never really wanted the job. According to bma, Wild just waited him out until he took it. (He served 14 months as interim.) He took it...Wild retires...Cottingham leaves.
This could be simply that he never really wanted the job and now that there is a new President, he decided to move on.
I like SC, he's a good man, a good lawyer. I just never understood the hiring to begin with and stated as such on Cracked Sidewalks when he was hired. These are big jobs. MU has some serious rapids to negotiate in the coming years with the Big East, the non football situation, etc, etc. I know some people here want Broeker in that spot, but I'm not sold there either. I don't know who's idea it was for the latest presser with him and Buzz, but if that was Broeker's, not a good idea. I generally hear good things about Broeker but would love to know what the vision is, how do we get there, what the defensive plan is, etc, etc. Margin of error for MU is thinner than most schools. MU needs to get serious about this hire.
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I like SC, he's a good man. I just never understood the hiring to begin with and stated as such on Cracked Sidewalks when he was hired.
Eerily reminiscent of your feelings about Buzz. My guess is that if someone alerted Steve and Buzz to your many posts about them neither would feel very much "liked".
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Eerily reminiscent of your feelings about Buzz. My guess is that if someone alerted Steve and Buzz to your many posts about them neither would feel very much "liked".
I predicted SC wouldn't be here 5 years and nailed it. I've had predictions about Buzz that I've nailed as well....and some that still could come true if another shoe drops....careful what you wish for Lenny. I just call it the way it is, no emotion.
I think that is the difference between you and I. You are so caught up in the emotion sometimes that you don't understand constructive criticism and you immediately categorize it as hateful when it is nothing of the kind. I'm merely calling it like it is. I'm not always going to be right, but I'm not going to fall in love with anyone to make that cloud my judgment. Try it sometime....makes getting through tough business decisions and many relationships MUCH easier. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Pretty simple words to live by.
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I predicted SC wouldn't be here 5 years and nailed it. I've had predictions about Buzz that I've nailed as well....and some that still could come true if another shoe drops....careful what you wish for Lenny. I just call it the way it is, no emotion.
I think that is the difference between you and I. You are so caught up in the emotion sometimes that you don't understand constructive criticism and you immediately categorize it as hateful when it is nothing of the kind. I'm merely calling it like it is. I'm not always going to be right, but I'm not going to fall in love with anyone to make that cloud my judgment. Try it sometime....makes getting through tough business decisions and many relationships MUCH easier. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Pretty simple words to live by.
You unemotional? That's pretty funny. I'll grant that you're loathe to invest any positive emotions in MU - players, coaches or the institution itself. I'll take your word that this is your preferred prescription for business and other relationships. But when it comes to being emotional on the negative side of the ledger you're world class. I know you apologized for it (and I'm ok with it), but nevertheless your "Choking Dogs Pee Themselves" post was undoubtably the most emotionally over the top piece I've ever seen on Scoop. And in every "he said, she said" situation concerning MU, you invariably (and very emotionally) accept and champion whichever version of the facts is most damaging to MU. Your criticism is often mean spirited and anything but constructive. And you fight and namecall anyone who doesn't do likewise.
So I'd say you're half right. No positives, no attaboys, no emotional investment in the school and team you love. Only negatives. Sorry, I don't buy your prescription for business or life. You think that means my head is in the sand and I'm a fool. I respectfully disagree.
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o
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What's "appropriate" interference? Interference is interference.
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OK....becoming one of "those" threads. Time to ignore...
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out of the respect I have for Steve Cottingham but now that I know definitively what happened I'm also not going to be silent because I'm utterly disappointed in the MU administration.
The salient question in regards to responsibility should have been: was this incident an athletic department wide problem that has manifested itself in multiple athletic programs or isolated to one of the programs?
As far as I can tell it's isolated to our men's basketball program therefore the AD should have been allowed to rectify the problem within that individual program, of the many, that he oversees.
MU lost a great man, we need more individuals like Steve Cottingham, not less, at Marquette. SC is a man of utmost moral fiber.
Lastly, I will say this: I was one of Buzz William's earliest supporters and I'll give him a pass this time but if this ever happens again I'll be the first one in line calling for Buzz's dismissal.
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Did I miss something? What "definitively" happened?
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I think he's implying that he has inside information.
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out of the respect I have for Steve Cottingham but now that I know definitively what happened I'm also not going to be silent because I'm utterly disappointed in the MU administration.
The salient question in regards to responsibility should have been: was this incident an athletic department wide problem that has manifested itself in multiple athletic programs or isolated to one of the programs?
As far as I can tell it's isolated to our men's basketball program therefore the AD should have been allowed to rectify the problem within that individual program, of the many, that he oversees.
MU lost a great man, we need more individuals like Steve Cottingham, not less, at Marquette. SC is a man of utmost moral fiber.
Lastly, I will say this: I was one of Buzz William's earliest supporters and I'll give him a pass this time but if this ever happens again I'll be the first one in line calling for Buzz's dismissal.
I'm sure the university could have fired Buzz if they wanted to, right? What stopped them? Who was calling for anyone's head to roll at MU - even in the anti-MU Journal Sentinel? There was no reason for MU to fire Cottingham or Buzz for that matter, best I can tell. The biggest issues at MU lie with addressing who is making the decision to fire Cottingham, and who is making the decisions as to how MU handles PR during such matters.
Last thought, what would you have wanted Buzz to do differently in this situation? Where did Buzz go wrong?
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Did I miss something? What "definitively" happened?
Call me a cynic, but I hate this kind of stuff. Someone has behind the scenes info they don't/can't share but is incredibly troubling. Nothing against SC as a poster, but if you can't say something, don't. If you are disturbed and need to air it, then say it. But saying "I won't say anything, but I'm not happy" does no one any good. It doesn't do the poster any good because they haven't had the cathartic moment of getting something off their chest since they didn't get anything off their chest, it doesn't do the reader any good because it's basically saying "here's a thread with zero info for you", and it doesn't do the site any good because it sounds like more whining for the sake of it.
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I'm sure the university could have fired Buzz if they wanted to, right? What stopped them?
Probably because it is easier and cheaper to get rid of Cottingham.
However, let me just guess that SC might not know the whole story. If Buzz was inappropriate, and Cottingham knew about it, is his supervisor and didn't address it...well...then he is just as at fault. And like any organization, there are factions all over the place, which means no one person is ever going get the whole story. I am sure there are those sympathetic to Cottingham that are getting the message out one way.
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The craziest thing of all is .. no one on the outside really knows why Cottingham is no longer our AD.
He just isn't. Move along, nothing to see here.
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The craziest thing of all is .. no one on the outside really knows why Cottingham is no longer our AD.
He just isn't. Move along, nothing to see here.
Yep.
As Jim Mora said, "You think you know, but you don't know. And you never will."
I know there's been a general undercurrent of "Cottingham is being made a scapegoat" here, and maybe that's true. Then again, maybe he did something deserving of his ouster. Or maybe he simply decided this was no longer the gig for him. I have no idea. I suspect no one else here does either.
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Stoned will lay the skinny on us any post now.
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The craziest thing of all is .. no one on the outside really knows why Cottingham is no longer our AD.
He just isn't. Move along, nothing to see here.
Ahoya mobile shoutin' down I-43 just a little too fast this morning.
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I hate to go all Deep Throat like I'm 4ever when he was towel boy at old Turner Hall Gymnasium.....but my source is lock tight.
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I hate to go all Deep Throat like I'm 4ever when he was towel boy at old Turner Hall Gymnasium.....but my source is lock tight.
Deep Throat actually revealed information.
Why bother saying you know something, when you aren't going to say anything? You know how people on message boards react.
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Here is my biggest concern, which addresses what we might be looking for.
The Big EAST is not a very stable league. Will it blow up with the football members leaving? Will it add more members? How will the TV contracts play in all of this?
I'd like to know that the AD has a plan. Maybe that the AD has some relationships with the right people. The politics and power will be huge.
Maybe Broeker is the right guy. But with all those issues looming, MU does nothing but benefit itself to listen to other candidates and see who might have the best approach.
Cottingham negotiated MU's contract with the Big East....my biggest fear is MU hires an AD who does not have the intricate knowledge or smarts to position MU advantageously that Cottingham possessed.
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Any outsider looking in can see why any conference would want a program like Marquette for basketball alone...I don't think the negotiating should be praised all that highly and also highly doubt that Cottingham was behind the negotiations all on his own. In addition he had no prior experience as an AD...I understand you may have personal connections, but from a basketball viewpoint alone, he was not a great hire in the first place. Let's not fool ourselves here basketball is Marquette Athletics...if that program did not exist, what else would people know Marquette for? I doubt they would say "oh you have a great women's soccer team!". I doubt that Marquette makes am AD hire that will endanger their position in the Big East, the Big East will crumble and the basketball only schools will be kicked out no matter who our athletic director is.
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Any outsider looking in can see why any conference would want a program like Marquette for basketball alone...I don't think the negotiating should be praised all that highly and also highly doubt that Cottingham was behind the negotiations all on his own. In addition he had no prior experience as an AD...I understand you may have personal connections, but from a basketball viewpoint alone, he was not a great hire in the first place. Let's not fool ourselves here basketball is Marquette Athletics...if that program did not exist, what else would people know Marquette for? I doubt they would say "oh you have a great women's soccer team!". I doubt that Marquette makes am AD hire that will endanger their position in the Big East, the Big East will crumble and the basketball only schools will be kicked out no matter who our athletic director is.
Make sure you stay in that box Hags. Don't pick an AD from anywhere except the AD box.
From all we have to measure, SC did a good (short time in the job precludes great rating) job. There is a strong trend toward hiring lawyers (yuck, Sorry HouWarrior) as AD, because of their negotiating skills. They don't do it alone. Input on strategy from other stakeholders is very important. Not going to find a lot of lawyers with AD experience yet.
Some of the best business moves I've made are out of the box. You should try it.
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Any outsider looking in can see why any conference would want a program like Marquette for basketball alone...I don't think the negotiating should be praised all that highly and also highly doubt that Cottingham was behind the negotiations all on his own.
I'd love to agree, but I think it's more any insider looking out can see why a conference would want us. We can look at other programs and say why we'd be a better choice, but to the outsider, are we really? We're in a middle-sized media market, we have a total student base of less than 12,000, and don't exactly have a huge alumni base.
Yes, we have a successful basketball program, our alumni have proven to be generous donors, we're still in a market that serves over 1 million people (including surrounding communities), and we have a number of other successful programs while continuing to grow our athletic brand, but what we see looking out isn't necessarily the same as what others see looking in.
If the Big East splits, we will end up in a mid-major, basketball-only conference. It may end up being a basketball powerhouse conference, similar to how CUSA was, getting 6 bids and having teams capable of earning #1 seeds and making Final Fours, but there is no way we will be in a BCS-level conference. Cottingham did a great job by getting us into the Big East, and whomever follows him will likely have to do a similar job to get us into as good a conference as possible if the Big East does collapse or split. Like Cottingham, they likely won't do it alone, but I'm really hoping for someone with both a law and PR background to navigate what will likely be troubled waters.
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If the Big East splits, we will end up in a mid-major, basketball-only conference. It may end up being a basketball powerhouse conference, similar to how CUSA was, getting 6 bids and having teams capable of earning #1 seeds and making Final Fours, but there is no way we will be in a BCS-level conference. Cottingham did a great job by getting us into the Big East, and whomever follows him will likely have to do a similar job to get us into as good a conference as possible if the Big East does collapse or split. Like Cottingham, they likely won't do it alone, but I'm really hoping for someone with both a law and PR background to navigate what will likely be troubled waters.
Interesting how the "Steve Cottingham got us into the Big East" storyline has developed over the past couple of weeks, especially in light of the fact it was pretty much non existent over the past seven years. Bill Cords (who was AD at the time, not Cottingham), Tom Crean and Dwyane Wade all had far more to do with MU's inclusion in the Big East than Cottingham. Heck Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech and the ACC had more to do with it. Steve took part in negotiating contracts after MU received an invite, something I imagine any number of capable attorneys could have accomplished. Steve did a good job for MU, and deserves much credit for it. But he didn't get MU into the Big East.
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I'd love to agree, but I think it's more any insider looking out can see why a conference would want us. We can look at other programs and say why we'd be a better choice, but to the outsider, are we really? We're in a middle-sized media market, we have a total student base of less than 12,000, and don't exactly have a huge alumni base.
You could make the argument that Villanova, Seton Hall, and Providence are in the same boat as us there and they certainly have been a big positive for the Big East due to their basketball programs...In terms of basketball only schools Marquette is cream of the crop, and fit the mold of what the Big East was looking for.
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You could make the argument that Villanova, Seton Hall, and Providence are in the same boat as us there and they certainly have been a big positive for the Big East due to their basketball programs...In terms of basketball only schools Marquette is cream of the crop, and fit the mold of what the Big East was looking for.
Yes, they are all in a similar boat. It's entirely possible that we'll be competing with them for positioning if the conference splits. I wouldn't want to go up against Villanova's market size or SHU's access to the New York market. And if they have the good leadership that has made them one of the most influential schools in the Big East, Providence will likely be formidable.
The point is that none of these schools are pushovers. You may say we're the cream of the crop, but what if Villanova gets D1 football? What if someone is looking strictly at market size when they compare us to SHU? What if we don't have as good of leadership as Providence does? We will still need good leadership because as much as we feel we have a good product to sell, so do all those other schools.
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Interesting how the "Steve Cottingham got us into the Big East" storyline has developed over the past couple of weeks, especially in light of the fact it was pretty much non existent over the past seven years.
+1
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Yes, they are all in a similar boat. It's entirely possible that we'll be competing with them for positioning if the conference splits. I wouldn't want to go up against Villanova's market size or SHU's access to the New York market. And if they have the good leadership that has made them one of the most influential schools in the Big East, Providence will likely be formidable.
The point is that none of these schools are pushovers. You may say we're the cream of the crop, but what if Villanova gets D1 football? What if someone is looking strictly at market size when they compare us to SHU? What if we don't have as good of leadership as Providence does? We will still need good leadership because as much as we feel we have a good product to sell, so do all those other schools.
Providence had good leadership but recently has been in disarray. Basketball is their go to sport and they have been awful as of late. The hiring of Cooley may change all that, but he is their third coach in only a 6 year span. They also fired their hockey coach, and the AD was under alot of fire. Seton Hall giving the New York Market? That must be a joke...St. John's gives the New York Market, and plays in MSG. They have Rutgers, St. Johns, and SHU all pointed at the New York Market. I think one of the three, Seton Hall, is easily in a worse spot than us. Villanova of course has had great success in basketball and if they add D1 football there is no comparison, but in comparison to Providence and SHU I feel like we should be considered superior in terms of our basketball program alone which is obviously the best "product" our three schools have to offer.
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Villanova of course has had great success in basketball and if they add D1 football there is no comparison, but in comparison to Providence and SHU I feel like we should be considered superior in terms of our basketball program alone which is obviously the best "product" our three schools have to offer.
And that's the rub of it. You feel that way. I feel that way. But will other conferences? Will outsiders?
Until it comes down to it, we really don't know. Will results on the court be the only thing that matters? Will off-court issues come into it, and will ours get better or worse? Will our geographic location hurt us? All I am really trying to say is we need good leadership to make sure that if push comes to shove, we show our best side.
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The question you have to ask yourself is this:
Is MU more like Creighton or Villanova?
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Interesting how the "Steve Cottingham got us into the Big East" storyline has developed over the past couple of weeks, especially in light of the fact it was pretty much non existent over the past seven years. Bill Cords (who was AD at the time, not Cottingham), Tom Crean and Dwyane Wade all had far more to do with MU's inclusion in the Big East than Cottingham. Heck Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech and the ACC had more to do with it. Steve took part in negotiating contracts after MU received an invite, something I imagine any number of capable attorneys could have accomplished. Steve did a good job for MU, and deserves much credit for it. But he didn't get MU into the Big East.
+1.
Revisionist history is always amusing.