And Newbill Speaks to Rosiak..

[Strokin 3s]

Dude, you're full of assumptions, which isn't helping figure anything out.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/97488689.html
"Through a culmination of several things, we have decided to give D.J. Newbill his release," Williams said. "D.J.'s a great kid, he comes from a great family who we have established relationships with, and we're going to do everything we can to help him in his future, in whatever capacity that would be."

So according to Buzz, Newbill was released, so he can't go to another BEast school.

I fail to see how I am full of assumptions.  Yes, he was granted his release, however, he also never enrolled at the school, so come Sept 1 or whenever school starts at MU the NLI will become null and void.

[mu-rara]

Whoever knows the 100% truth behind this situation, please speak up.  Otherwise. . .this is fruitless.

Chicos knows all.  Just ask him.

[MerrittsMustache]

Personally, I think this whole thing was a result of poor communication. In my opinion, it went down like this...

-Buzz wasn't sure about Wilson's status but he didn't want to lose out on Newbill so he signed him.
-Buzz discussed prep school with DJ's camp (not DJ) but wasn't particularly clear about how very real a possibility it was.
-DJ's camp only claimed to be open to the prep school route because they didn't view it as a very realistic possibility. Buzz had a feeling they weren't completely sold but didn't want to press the issue because they told him what he wanted to hear.
-DJ's camp got wind of the Wilson recruitment but didn't keep DJ in the loop because they took the calculated risk that it wouldn't go down like it did. They did this partly to protect DJ from feeling unwanted if he did end up at MU and partly as a CYA move to make sure MU came out looking like the bad guy as opposed to them looking like bumbling coaches who misled their own recruit.
-Buzz didn't press Newbill on getting his application in because that was his own CYA move and an acceptable "out" if Wilson signed and DJ decided against prep school.
-When it looked like Wilson was headed to MU, PhillyCoach (who was not actively involved in the recruiting process) did his part by all of a sudden appearing on this board talking up Newbill and laying the groundwork to help make Buzz the guy who pulled the rug out from under his unsuspecting recruit.
-Wilson signed with MU and Newbill was let go.
-Newbill was blindsided because he was kept primarily out of the loop by both sides.
-Buzz believed the application "out" would be better received.
-MU gets their man in Wilson and will be better off.
-Newbill signs with So Miss where he'll be better off.

[Lennys Tap]

It's more than just that (message board chatter), it's unseemly to me that as grown adults we're out there calling an 18 year old kid, his parents, his coaches, liars.  Saying it's all B.S., it's all on them, etc.   You can't have it both ways.  People here are screaming up and down that no one knows all the facts yet 10 seconds later some of these same people they flat out call the Newbill camp liars.  Uhm, ok.  How can they make that pronouncement when all the facts aren't there?  Sure seems they are trying to have it both ways.

If people want to make opinions on it, fine, that's what this is all about.  But calling these people liars is wrong IMO.

Do we lose recruits because of message boards?  Who knows, but we know Vander Blue and others have cited chatter on message boards before as a turnoff.  Other recruits time and again have said they read message boards.  There are plenty of articles out there supporting this.  Therefore, it seems to me that calling out kids as liars isn't very productive.  

Your posting on this topic is exhibit A as to why I at times have difficulty engaging you in discussion. Saying that people who disagree with you are unseemly children who are "screaming up and down" about things is hyperbolic at best and the mark of someone just looking for a fight.

Regarding DJ's coach, parents and DJ himself:
1. His "coach" is actually his ex-coach who supposedly has been out of the "loop" for some time. He claims to have been fired from his position by his principal because he was too successful and his pricipal was jealous of him. Perhaps you find this sort of "kool aid" to your liking. I don't. I don't know whether he lying or delusional but I certainly would question his ability to understand and process information that comes his way.
2. I don't know of anything DJ's folks have said on the subject. But parents hurt when their kids hurt. I've got no problem with them if they're angry.
3.DJ has said very little (actually avoiding questions and breaking promises to return phone calls). I'm not painting him with a broad brush and saying he's a liar or a bad person. But I do suspect his self reported offers from WVU, FSU, and Georgetown may involve more than a little wishful thinking (or exaggerrated info from those in his camp). I find it very hard to believe that a player coveted by the Big East and ACC couldn't do better with a local mid major (LaSalle) than an offer to redshirt.

On the subject of the program and its future, I find your comments ironic. Calling those who accept MU's version of this unfortunate situation "kool-aid drinkers" is tantamount to calling Buzz Williams a liar. What could possibly be more damaging to the program than having its own "fans" publically question the character and veracity of its leader?

[ATWizJr]

Like I said, you guys are sure gullible.

[wadesworld]

Like I said, you guys are sure gullible.

Why's that. Because you think it was as simple as Jamil Wilson wanted in so Dj Newbill was asked to leave? Because you're going to believe every word phillycoach said despite the fact that he admitted tof away from DJ's recruitment for a year? Because maybe back in your day it was OK to send in your application 3 days before you moved into your school (something Newbill's camp admitted to), but nowadays you have to apply to your school over 3 MONTHS before you gain admittance into the school?

You're right, we're the gullible ones.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Why's that. Because you think it was as simple as Jamil Wilson wanted in so Dj Newbill was asked to leave? Because you're going to believe every word phillycoach said despite the fact that he admitted tof away from DJ's recruitment for a year? Because maybe back in your day it was OK to send in your application 3 days before you moved into your school (something Newbill's camp admitted to), but nowadays you have to apply to your school over 3 MONTHS before you gain admittance into the school?

You're right, we're the gullible ones.

I think AT was referring to Chico's hat-in-hand "apology and promise to not do it again" post of a week or so ago.  He is of course promptly reneged on that promise. 

[wadesworld]

I think AT was referring to Chico's hat-in-hand "apology and promise to not do it again" post of a week or so ago.  He is of course promptly reneged on that promise. 

Oh my bad. Makes sense. I kind of skipped over that apology thread.

[MUSF]

Because maybe back in your day it was OK to send in your application 3 days before you moved into your school (something Newbill's camp admitted to), but nowadays you have to apply to your school over 3 MONTHS before you gain admittance into the school?

There are always exceptions to those rules.  When did Wilson's application get turned in?  As far as I know, he is going to attend MU in the fall.

I wasn't a scholarship athlete at MU but was recruited to a program at the school that got my application accepted in June.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think AT was referring to Chico's hat-in-hand "apology and promise to not do it again" post of a week or so ago.  He is of course promptly reneged on that promise. 

I did....why don't you go back and read that thread and what I apologized for (Jucos and the conversation about Jucos was what I apologized for).  Then you can come back here and apologize yourself for claiming in reneged on that promise.  We'll be waiting.   


http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21172.0

[ATL MU Warrior]

I did....why don't you go back and read that thread and what I apologized for (Jucos and the conversation about Jucos was what I apologized for).  Then you can come back here and apologize yourself for claiming in reneged on that promise.  We'll be waiting.   


http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21172.0

you got me.  I misremembered what your original apology was about. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Your posting on this topic is exhibit A as to why I at times have difficulty engaging you in discussion. Saying that people who disagree with you are unseemly children who are "screaming up and down" about things is hyperbolic at best and the mark of someone just looking for a fight.

Regarding DJ's coach, parents and DJ himself:
1. His "coach" is actually his ex-coach who supposedly has been out of the "loop" for some time. He claims to have been fired from his position by his principal because he was too successful and his pricipal was jealous of him. Perhaps you find this sort of "kool aid" to your liking. I don't. I don't know whether he lying or delusional but I certainly would question his ability to understand and process information that comes his way.
2. I don't know of anything DJ's folks have said on the subject. But parents hurt when their kids hurt. I've got no problem with them if they're angry.
3.DJ has said very little (actually avoiding questions and breaking promises to return phone calls). I'm not painting him with a broad brush and saying he's a liar or a bad person. But I do suspect his self reported offers from WVU, FSU, and Georgetown may involve more than a little wishful thinking (or exaggerrated info from those in his camp). I find it very hard to believe that a player coveted by the Big East and ACC couldn't do better with a local mid major (LaSalle) than an offer to redshirt.

On the subject of the program and its future, I find your comments ironic. Calling those who accept MU's version of this unfortunate situation "kool-aid drinkers" is tantamount to calling Buzz Williams a liar. What could possibly be more damaging to the program than having its own "fans" publically question the character and veracity of its leader?

No, that's not what I said....no wonder why you have trouble engaging with me and others because you can't comprehend the most basic levels of reading comprehension.

What is UNSEEMLY is grown adults calling an 18 year old kid a liar, calling his parents liars, calling his coaches liars.  Not agreeing with me is not what I said was unseemly, it was the action of calling these people liars.  COMPRENDO?

His coach, is not JUST his ex-coach.  BOTH of his coaches were included in comments in various articles...his EX-COACH (which you reference) but ALSO his AAU coach. You're only focusing on ONE coach, the ex-coach, to cast dispersions on the kid.  Why aren't you including the comments of his AAU coach?  COMPRENDO?

Ironic?  Please.  I've said multiple times, I am not calling Buzz Williams a liar (unlike some posters here who have FLAT OUT called Newbill and his camp Liars).  In my opinion, we have an issue of very poor communication between his staff and the Newbill camp.  Go back to the earliest videos of this kid, and it's clear as day that what they thought is not what the MU camp thought.  I don't call that lying, I call that very poor communication.  Is that Monarch?  Is that Buzz?  Is that Newbill?  Probably all of the above, but let's be clear that consistently (going to the press releases, the videos, the interviews) one side most certainly never thought he was going to Prep school.  Consistently that is the case in February, in April, in June. Nothing changed in their comments from that side of the camp, consistent for 5 months.

What troubles me in all this are the time lines.  Some of you guys might want to dig a bit deeper into when Wilson's transfer rumblings started (it was a hell of a lot earlier than May of 2010).   

[ChicosBailBonds]

you got me.  I misremembered what your original apology was about. 

Yes, you did.  And you almost apologized.   

Maybe you were too busy chuckling about Canadian Dimes terrible execution trying to blast someone and not even get the right decade in his attempt.  Dimes is the guy that retells the joke only to screw it up so bad with the details that he has to end it with ..."I guess you had to be there"

[ATL MU Warrior]

Yes, you did.  And you almost apologized.   

Maybe you were too busy chuckling about Canadian Dimes terrible execution trying to blast someone and not even get the right decade in his attempt.  Dimes is the guy that retells the joke only to screw it up so bad with the details that he has to end it with ..."I guess you had to be there"

How the heck would I know when you worked in the MU athletic department and therefore know that the timing in his joke was off?  Who cares about that besides you? 

I found it amusing and still do...so sue me. 

[RawdogDX]

Sad to see that some here call B.S. or continue to call the kid, his parents and coaches liars.  That will certainly reflect well with other recruits visiting the board.   

If 'reflecting well with ofther recruits visiting the board' was formost in the mind of every poster here, a lot would change what they say.  You my friend, would be high on that list, just fanning flames.
You've summed up your position: buzz (and coaches in general) should honor their commitments and learn from mistakes.  Just put it in your sig and be done with it. 

[Lennys Tap]

No, that's not what I said....no wonder why you have trouble engaging with me and others because you can't comprehend the most basic levels of reading comprehension.

What is UNSEEMLY is grown adults calling an 18 year old kid a liar, calling his parents liars, calling his coaches liars.  Not agreeing with me is not what I said was unseemly, it was the action of calling these people liars.  COMPRENDO?

His coach, is not JUST his ex-coach.  BOTH of his coaches were included in comments in various articles...his EX-COACH (which you reference) but ALSO his AAU coach. You're only focusing on ONE coach, the ex-coach, to cast dispersions on the kid.  Why aren't you including the comments of his AAU coach?  COMPRENDO?

Ironic?  Please.  I've said multiple times, I am not calling Buzz Williams a liar (unlike some posters here who have FLAT OUT called Newbill and his camp Liars).  In my opinion, we have an issue of very poor communication between his staff and the Newbill camp.  Go back to the earliest videos of this kid, and it's clear as day that what they thought is not what the MU camp thought.  I don't call that lying, I call that very poor communication.  Is that Monarch?  Is that Buzz?  Is that Newbill?  Probably all of the above, but let's be clear that consistently (going to the press releases, the videos, the interviews) one side most certainly never thought he was going to Prep school.  Consistently that is the case in February, in April, in June. Nothing changed in their comments from that side of the camp, consistent for 5 months.

What troubles me in all this are the time lines.  Some of you guys might want to dig a bit deeper into when Wilson's transfer rumblings started (it was a hell of a lot earlier than May of 2010).    

So Buzz Williams tells IWB what happened. IWB prints it. You say anyone who believes what Buzz Williams said (through IWB) is a kool-aid drinker. I use my storied reading comprehension skills to conclude that you in essence just called Buzz Williams a liar without using those exact words. In addition, you've accused Buzz (again the hyperbole) of ruining DJ Newbill's life. That will certainly help recruiting. COMPRENDO?

[Marquette84]

-Buzz discussed prep school with DJ's camp (not DJ) but wasn't particularly clear about how very real a possibility it was.

Why do people keep bringing up the possibility of a "prep school deal"?

If you honestly believe that Buzz made an additional verbal agreement with Newbill that called for Newbill to attend prep school at MU's option, then by definition you have to believe that Buzz of violated the terms of the NLI.

The NLI is clear on two points--
--There can be no additions or deletions to the NLI language.
--Any other agreements that might have existed--verbal or otherwise--are voided when the NLI is signed.

I know you're only trying to come up with a plausible explanation, but do we really have to continue to accuse Buzz of a rules violation to make it seem like Newbilll was more at fault?

[MerrittsMustache]

Why do people keep bringing up the possibility of a "prep school deal"?

If you honestly believe that Buzz made an additional verbal agreement with Newbill that called for Newbill to attend prep school at MU's option, then by definition you have to believe that Buzz of violated the terms of the NLI.

The NLI is clear on two points--
--There can be no additions or deletions to the NLI language.
--Any other agreements that might have existed--verbal or otherwise--are voided when the NLI is signed.

I know you're only trying to come up with a plausible explanation, but do we really have to continue to accuse Buzz of a rules violation to make it seem like Newbilll was more at fault?

It continues to be brought up because Buzz stated that one of the recruits was going to a prep school. Why would he say that publicly if he did not believe it to be fact?Perhaps DJ's camp brought up the idea of prep school to Buzz and he gave it his blessing assuming it was going to happen when, in fact, it wasn't finalized. Perhaps DJ's camp agreed to send him to prep school and then backed out. Perhaps Buzz said "Screw the NLI. Send him to prep school or we'll cut him." We don't know so I'm taking a guess. In no way am I accusing Buzz of rules violations.

Personally, I think that Newbill, himself, is the least at fault in all of this. I think the communication between MU's coaches and Newbill and the communication between Newbill's HS/AAU coaches and Newbill was very poor and that there were some behind the scenes conversations taking place that he wasn't fully aware of.

[Dawson Rental]

The plain reality is that this Newbill situation created three distinct groups and one extreme minority group.

(1) One group will lay all the blame at Newbill's feet and refuse to accept any blame attributable to Buzz or MU.

(2) The second group will call for Buzz's head, citing his unconscionable acts as evidence that he is not representing MU in the right manner.

(3) The third group, and hopefully the majority group, will simply say that they will never know what happened, and furthermore, that they don't need to know what happened to know that the appearance of impropriety is enough to make it not sit well. This final group will acknowledge that it takes two to tango, and that at the very least, Buzz put himself in a position where he was vulnerable to accusations. The only hope of this group is, that regardless of who's at blame, that Buzzs learn from the situation and hopefully does not find himself in it again.

(4) I fall in the fourth group, which is admittedly the extreme minority group. My group blames the whole Newbill mess on Trevor Mbakwe.

What complete nonsense!   Of course, Trevor intended to be in the middle of Newbill's recruitment, but then, expectedly, he failed to show up.

[Marquette84]

It continues to be brought up because Buzz stated that one of the recruits was going to a prep school. Why would he say that publicly if he did not believe it to be fact?

Buzz also stated that the player knew who he was. 

If that player were Newbill, then it doesn't fit with other public statements from either side:
--MU's statement that Newbill "will arrive on campus this summer"
--Newbill's statement that he was never asked to attend prep school.

So far, most of the speculation here is that Newbill is lying--there was a verbal agreement that he would attend prep school for a year. 

Of course, those same people seem to be oblivious to the fact that such a verbal agreement is prohibited.

[PE8983]

Some calendar time went by between the time when MU said he would be here this summer, and when Buzz said someone would not be here this fall and that person knew who he was.  So your argument isn't valid.

[MUBurrow]

the time between those two events isn't relevant.

what is relevant is the standing of the situation when MU accepted DJ's LOI. plus that time doesn't change the likelihood that Jamil Wilson's sudden availability is what spurred the alleged prep school talk.

not trying to get involved, but lets at least keep our logical conclusions straight.

[PE8983]

Wrong - Buzz said way back that someone was not going to be here this fall, and that person knew all about it.  He also said he was still recruiting for the fall semester.  So far, everyone else is here.  Barring any unforeseen circumstances, you can surmise that it was Newbill he was talking about.  Therefore, this whole timeline with Newbill/Wilson is just conjecture.

[MUBurrow]

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, you can surmise that it was Newbill he was talking about.  Therefore, this whole timeline with Newbill/Wilson is just conjecture.

nice.

So you are trying to say that Buzz took DJ's commitment without any talk of prep school by either side (hence the release that he would be here in the fall).
THEN Buzz and DJ subsequently agreed on prep school even though it hadn't been brought up in the initial recruitment.
THEN Newbill got released because he changed his mind on prep school?

The whole point of the timelines up to this point is that the prep school thing (except in the above situation i suppose) doesn't jive with DJ knowing he was destined for prep school because either:
 A) He wouldn't have signed destined for prep school because the release wouldn't have then said he would be here in the fall and
 B) Those that have been reluctant (in some cases, to say the least) to let MU go in this whole thing don't feel that railroading someone to prep school if that wasn't part of their initial signing agreement is any better than cutting them altogether.

[Litehouse]

A) He wouldn't have signed destined for prep school because the release wouldn't have then said he would be here in the fall and

People are reading way too much into MU's press release saying he'd be here in the fall, it's just the usual complimentary stuff they put out for all recruits.  What are they supposed to say?  "MU is happy to sign Newbill, but he might have to spend a year in prep school working on his game before he gets here."