And Newbill Speaks to Rosiak..

[ChicosBailBonds]

For me, the easiest way to tell who's lying: Buzz said all along that someone was not coming and that player knew who he was.  That was way back in the spring.  So far, everyone else is here or will be here shortly, and supposedly enrolling for fall.  If that time comes, and everyone is here, then IMO, Newbill knew.

Interesting.  So let's say this is true, can you square it then with this article from Gomarquette.com, the official website of the Marquette athletics department?

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041410aab.html

Here's the part you should focus on.....odd to me that an official release, which is approved by Buzz (all basketball releases like this go before the coach and AD for approval) says he will be at MU this Summer.  Odd, don't you think, that they would put this release out there if he knew all along he wasn't coming, as you suggest.  Yes, odd indeed.  

But let's keep telling the world our recruits are the ones that are lying, that's always a good move. 



April 14, 2010

Milwaukee - The Marquette University men's basketball program has signed prep standout Devonte' "DJ" Newbill to a National Letter of Intent, head coach Buzz Williams announced Wednesday morning.

Newbill, a 6-4, 195-pounder, will arrive on campus this summer and have four years of eligibility with the Golden Eagles.

"We are excited about DJ," Williams said. "Anyone that has followed our program knows the priority toughness and character are to us. DJ embodies those two qualities as well as anyone we have recruited.

"Similar to all of the others in our class thus far, DJ has won at the highest level and many times winning reveals toughness and character," Williams added.

The Pennsylvania Class AA Player of the Year and first team all-state honoree led Philadelphia's Strawberry Mansion High School to the state championship game in 2009-10. He averaged 24.2 points, 9.0 rebounds, 5.0 assists and 4.0 steals per game and was also named the Public League Player of the Year. A McDonald's All-American candidate, Newbill earned a place on the first team all-city and all-public league squads.

Strawberry Mansion advanced to the state title matchup for the second time in three years and concluded the year 28-2 overall, including a perfect 22-0 start to the campaign. Newbill was a two-year letterwinner for the Knights and netted 15 points in the championship game.

Newbill's senior campaign was highlighted by a 64-point performance in a victory over Saul. He finished the game 23-of-30 from the field and 16-of-17 from the charity stripe to set the school's single-game scoring record. It was the sixth-highest point total in public league history.

Newbill averaged 19.0 points, 7.0 rebounds, 4.0 assists and 3.0 steals per game as a junior. He was named second team all-state and also garnered second team all-public league honors.

[wadesworld]

So you're suggesting that IF Newbill's verbal was indeed a soft verbal then Marquette would have publicly stated as much on their basketball website despite the fact that, as others here have pointed out, soft verbals are against NCAA rules? LOL come on chicos, get real . What else do you suggest they should have written? "We're taking this kid and he will be on campus in August unless Jamil Wilson wants to come here, in which case he will never step on Marquette's campus." LOL

I have a few simple questions for you that I am sure you will "overlook" (LOL:):
-Have you ever exaggerated to make yourself sound better off when you appear to be in a less-than-desired situation (shoot, I forgot you and the Tanned Tommy are Saints)?
-Do you think DJ Newbill and his camp has told the complete truth?
-Do you believe Buzz Williams is lying?
-You clearly don't like people calling Newbill a liar and think potential recruits will shy away from MU because of it; is calling Buzz a liar better, as you seem to be saying?
-Do you think a potential recruit would be more worried I'd our coach was a liar or if a recruit who was let go was a liar?
-As TallTitan pointed out and you conveniently ignored (LOL:), how is Tanned Tommy not a terrible person for not honoring his commitment to Marquette University? He did, after all, sign a 10 year contract in 2006, and here we are in 2010 and Buzz is going into his 3rd season as our head coach while The Tanned One is at "It's Indiana."
-How's my use of "LOL" and ")"

Just for clarification, I'm only expecting you to answer my last question. You'll just "conveniently" miss the rest LOL

[Jay Bee]

Only three?  I can just as easily fabricate a few more "possible" scenarios:

1) DJ asked for his release.

2) DJ failed to pass a physical exam to the satisfaction of the medical staff.

3) DJ submitted an application with only the words "I ain't filling out no damn application" written at the top.

4) DJ's commitment was contingent upon Coach Laws getting a job somewhere in Milwaukee.

5) DJ heard about boot camp and decided he wasn't up for it.

6) DJ mistakenly called Buzz "Coach Crean" the last time he talked to him.

7) DJ messed with Texas.

8) DJ found that there were people like Chico's who 'were into MU bball' and begged to be let go. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Much to your chagrin, I'm happy to answer all of your questions...conveniently I might add.

See below:

So you're suggesting that IF Newbill's verbal was indeed a soft verbal then Marquette would have publicly stated as much on their basketball website despite the fact that, as others here have pointed out, soft verbals are against NCAA rules? LOL come on chicos, get real . What else do you suggest they should have written? "We're taking this kid and he will be on campus in August unless Jamil Wilson wants to come here, in which case he will never step on Marquette's campus." LOL  

I have a few simple questions for you that I am sure you will "overlook" (LOL:):
-Have you ever exaggerated to make yourself sound better off when you appear to be in a less-than-desired situation (shoot, I forgot you and the Tanned Tommy are Saints)? Yes
-Do you think DJ Newbill and his camp has told the complete truth? I don't know.  What I do know is that a video of the kid comes out MONTHS ago and back then his camp says there is no soft LOI, no asking to go to prep school, everything is planned for him to be at MU.  I also know that in multiple interviews with multiple media outlets, he and his family are "Stunned"  "shocked"  "disappointed"  "upset" among other things.  Are they telling the whole truth, I don't know. 
-Do you believe Buzz Williams is lying?  I don't know, same as above.  Though it seems awfully odd that you put out a press release saying a kid is going to be here THIS school year and we can't wait to have him back in April, only to change that tune 2 months later.
-You clearly don't like people calling Newbill a liar and think potential recruits will shy away from MU because of it; is calling Buzz a liar better, as you seem to be saying?  I'm not calling Buzz a liar, but I'm not drinking the KoolAid either and putting 100% of the blame on some kid and his family like you guys are.  Big difference.  I'm weighing the evidence I have before me....the SAME evidence that has led ESPN, Rivals.com, several Pennsylvania media outlets, etc, to come to the same conclusions I and others have.   
-Do you think a potential recruit would be more worried I'd our coach was a liar or if a recruit who was let go was a liar?  As stated, I'm not calling Buzz a liar, but you guys are flat out calling this kid and his camp liars.  I'll give Buzz the benefit of the doubt and say he (or his staff) were very poor communicators on this as it seems crystal clear that neither his parents, Newbill, or his coaches (AAU and High school) understood what was being offered (nor, by the way, did the official press release from Marquette University..cough).  It's clear, all of these people believed one thing and someone else (MU) believed something else.  Strange how all of those people could get it wrong, I can only imagine that this is a bad game of telephone or simply poor communication.
-As TallTitan pointed out and you conveniently ignored (LOL:), how is Tanned Tommy not a terrible person for not honoring his commitment to Marquette University? He did, after all, sign a 10 year contract in 2006, and here we are in 2010 and Buzz is going into his 3rd season as our head coach while The Tanned One is at "It's Indiana."  Yes...but he was a terrible person even before that.  The leaving just solidified it.  Now, if you're comparing someone leaving a contract who has an OUT to leave that contract to what MU did to this kid and the LOI, well that's your prerogative certainly.  I don't see how they are the same at all...Crean CHOSE to leave.  Newbill did not CHOOSE out of his LOI, but I'm sure you already connected those dots and just put this analogy (or maybe TallTitan did) just for giggles to make an incredibly stupid comparison between the two, I don't know.  I'm just guessing.  But back to the original question, TC was a terrible person before that...a good coach, did great things for the university, but definitely a terrible person.
-How's my use of "LOL" and ")"

Just for clarification, I'm only expecting you to answer my last question. You'll just "conveniently" miss the rest LOL

Just for clarification, you were wrong and inconvenienced.

[HouWarrior]

This offseason was blessed with 50 coaching changes, BCS league expansions( with a BE side effect story), tournament field expansion, NCAA investigations, and rulings on some big programs...

...But this board was truly uniquely blessed with Phillycoach joining here/chatting up DJ and then the coinciding DJ NLI/release story fueled with the accompanying speculations, opinions and recriminations---

It should be christened the NUMBER ONE offseason topic for this board--my sincerest thanks to DJ, Buzz, and especially Phillycoach.

Please keep the DJ story angles coming--- It'll take us right through to the season....I havent been "bored with the board" at any time this offseason--

....or, at the very least, it gives a "timeout" to the  Crean/Buzz never ending debate/vitrol.

We owe you one Phillycoach, DJ and Buzz.

[copious1218]

Chicos,

I typically do not have a problem with you nor am I trying to start a fight (you have enough of those going on on the board), but I would like to point out one thing.

You stated: "I'm not calling Buzz a liar, but I'm not drinking the KoolAid either and putting 100% of the blame on some kid and his family like you guys are.  Big difference."

However, a good majority of this board has stated that the truth likely lies somewhere between IWB's account and Newbill's account.  It seems like you are trying to take the middle ground and accusing everyone else of bashing Newbill when that doesn't even seem to be the position of others.  Not to mention, a strong majority of your posts have been taking Newbill's side which you not state you don't know whether he is telling the truth or not. 

The point I'm trying to make is we can certainly bash Newbill or bash Buzz, but you said it best in your last post.  We don't know what happened.  I don't personally think it was as simple Wilson was available and Newbill was last on the totem poll.  I get the impression that there was some falling out between the signing and when Newbill was suppose to report (note: this is an impression, not stating this is fact).  And no, that does not put 100% of the blame on Newbill, but I certainly have no intention of putting 100% of the blame on Buzz either.

[Daniel]

Whoever knows the 100% truth behind this situation, please speak up.  Otherwise. . .this is fruitless.

[Ari Gold]

8) DJ found that there were people like Chico's who 'were into MU bball' and begged to be let go. 

Touche salesman.

I wonder how many recruits MU has lost/ or turned off because of Scoop? -not speaking specifically to any folks here but come on. These recruits have google, and if their being recruited by a D1 school, they have to have some kind of ego. they wanna know what people are saying about them. I wouldnt blame em if they get pissed off for reading all of this type stuff

[rocky_warrior]

I wonder how many recruits MU has lost/ or turned off because of Scoop? -not speaking specifically to any folks here but come on. These recruits have google, and if their being recruited by a D1 school, they have to have some kind of ego. they wanna know what people are saying about them. I wouldnt blame em if they get pissed off for reading all of this type stuff

Maybe that's why Buzz frequently gets guys we haven't heard of - we have't had a chance to bash them yet.  lol

Seriously though, I get your point, but if recruits only go to schools where message boards are all nicey-nicey, then they'd only commit to low-majors that don't have a good following, or heavily used message baords. 

Fanatics post the darndest crap regardless of what school they root for.  This isn't a Marquette exclusive behavior.

I'm not condoning bashing past/present/potential recruits - in fact I'd usually discourage it - I'm just saying that it likely makes up a small part, or no part of most recruits decision.

[wadesworld]

I'm not saying Newbill was lying, I agree 100% with what copious said and couldn't have said it better myself, I'm just trying to point out that you seem to think recruits will be scared away by a message board calling a former recruit a liar, which many of us haven't done, and your posts seem to say Newbill's camp is telling the truth and acknowledge we've heard MU's side through IWB, so that would seem to imply that you believe Buzz is lying. My point was that if insets a potential recruit I'd be more concerned about the head coach being called a liar than a former recruit that was overrecruited.

[MUSF]

I'm not saying Newbill was lying, I agree 100% with what copious said and couldn't have said it better myself, I'm just trying to point out that you seem to think recruits will be scared away by a message board calling a former recruit a liar, which many of us haven't done, and your posts seem to say Newbill's camp is telling the truth and acknowledge we've heard MU's side through IWB, so that would seem to imply that you believe Buzz is lying. My point was that if insets a potential recruit I'd be more concerned about the head coach being called a liar than a former recruit that was overrecruited.

Why does it have to be an either / or situation?  Why does one party have to be lying?  DJ may very well believe that he had an uconditional offer yanked away from him and MU may think that the circumstances of DJ's recruitment were clear to all parties. 

This may very likely be a case of poor communication and/or poor judgement.

[MUSF]

Whoever knows the 100% truth behind this situation, please speak up.  Otherwise. . .this is fruitless.

I don't think there is a person on this planet that knows the "100% truth."  MU and Newbill have different versions of the truth that they seem to believe 100%. 

That said, what more facts do we need to have an opinion or make a judgement?  We have a player that was offered a scholarship and later had that offer rescinded.  The player claims he was unaware of any conditions on said offer and he quickly signed with another D1 program.

Ultimately, we all belong to one of three basic groups.

1. Think MU should honor all NLI's except in extreme cases, i.e. discipline, academics.

2. Have no problem with oversigning and pulling offers if better options are available.

3. Have no problem with oversigning and pulling offers as long as the recruits are fully aware of the situation and won't bash MU.

If you belong to group 1, you clearly have a problem with what happened.  If you belong to group 2, you don't have a problem with what happened.  If you belong to group 3, you have a slight problem with what happened because the recruit is making a stink.

Now, what additional facts do we need to find out that would change any of the above?  Newbill is a flesh eating Zombie?  Newbill tried to sexually assault Mo Acker during his official visit? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not saying Newbill was lying, I agree 100% with what copious said and couldn't have said it better myself, I'm just trying to point out that you seem to think recruits will be scared away by a message board calling a former recruit a liar, which many of us haven't done, and your posts seem to say Newbill's camp is telling the truth and acknowledge we've heard MU's side through IWB, so that would seem to imply that you believe Buzz is lying. My point was that if insets a potential recruit I'd be more concerned about the head coach being called a liar than a former recruit that was overrecruited.

It's more than just that (message board chatter), it's unseemly to me that as grown adults we're out there calling an 18 year old kid, his parents, his coaches, liars.  Saying it's all B.S., it's all on them, etc.   You can't have it both ways.  People here are screaming up and down that no one knows all the facts yet 10 seconds later some of these same people they flat out call the Newbill camp liars.  Uhm, ok.  How can they make that pronouncement when all the facts aren't there?  Sure seems they are trying to have it both ways.

If people want to make opinions on it, fine, that's what this is all about.  But calling these people liars is wrong IMO.

Do we lose recruits because of message boards?  Who knows, but we know Vander Blue and others have cited chatter on message boards before as a turnoff.  Other recruits time and again have said they read message boards.  There are plenty of articles out there supporting this.  Therefore, it seems to me that calling out kids as liars isn't very productive. 

[79Warrior]

It's more than just that (message board chatter), it's unseemly to me that as grown adults we're out there calling an 18 year old kid, his parents, his coaches, liars.  Saying it's all B.S., it's all on them, etc.   You can't have it both ways.  People here are screaming up and down that no one knows all the facts yet 10 seconds later some of these same people they flat out call the Newbill camp liars.  Uhm, ok.  How can they make that pronouncement when all the facts aren't there?  Sure seems they are trying to have it both ways.

If people want to make opinions on it, fine, that's what this is all about.  But calling these people liars is wrong IMO.

Do we lose recruits because of message boards?  Who knows, but we know Vander Blue and others have cited chatter on message boards before as a turnoff.  Other recruits time and again have said they read message boards.  There are plenty of articles out there supporting this.  Therefore, it seems to me that calling out kids as liars isn't very productive. 

Lets face it, no one knows the real story about DJ because MU will not present it's side. Plenty of specuation, no official facts. I think it is time to move on.

Secondly, as far as message boards are concerned, ours is tame compared to many.  Anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over anonymous postings is nuts. boards are by their nature full of nonsense and excess sprinkled with occassional facts. folks come here to post their feelings and opinions. I highly douby our board is any better or worse than others. If recruits are offended, then they will be just as offended on many other boards. This is the world we live in now. Any recruit who takes anything serious here probably needs to grow a thicker skin. In fact, stay away. 

[hoyasincebirth]

As a georgetown fan who frequents here, Ijust wanted to throw it out there that none of the Georgetown boys ever heard anything about recruiting much less offering Newbill.

That being said it's possible we did because JTIII has signed surprise recruits no one knew about until it was announced they were signed, for instance Jerrelle Benimon and Aaron Bowen ( of course you guys know all about him).

Sorry I can't be of more help, but Georgetown recruiting is very secretive, (Hoya Paranoia is still alive and well)

[avid1010]

As a georgetown fan who frequents here, Ijust wanted to throw it out there that none of the Georgetown boys ever heard anything about recruiting much less offering Newbill.

That being said it's possible we did because JTIII has signed surprise recruits no one knew about until it was announced they were signed, for instance Jerrelle Benimon and Aaron Bowen ( of course you guys know all about him).

Sorry I can't be of more help, but Georgetown recruiting is very secretive, (Hoya Paranoia is still alive and well)

It must be that it was kept secret otherwise you'd be calling the kid a liar and Chico's would have to scold you. 

[avid1010]

It's more than just that (message board chatter), it's unseemly to me that as grown adults we're out there calling an 18 year old kid, his parents, his coaches, liars.  Saying it's all B.S., it's all on them, etc.   You can't have it both ways.  People here are screaming up and down that no one knows all the facts yet 10 seconds later some of these same people they flat out call the Newbill camp liars.  Uhm, ok.  How can they make that pronouncement when all the facts aren't there?  Sure seems they are trying to have it both ways.

I think the vast majority of us are not calling DJ a liar, just simply stating that his story could be off for many reasons.  We have heard enough from both sides to make either side look good or bad.  I don't think we'll ever know the truth, and your only solution seems to be to honor all NLI's, which is a complete joke as there is obviously exceptions to every rule.  You certainly defended TC for not honoring NLI's.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It must be that it was kept secret otherwise you'd be calling the kid a liar and Chico's would have to scold you. 

But they aren't calling kids liars, unlike posters here...thus the difference.  I'm sure they would find it unseemly as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think the vast majority of us are not calling DJ a liar, just simply stating that his story could be off for many reasons.  We have heard enough from both sides to make either side look good or bad.  I don't think we'll ever know the truth, and your only solution seems to be to honor all NLI's, which is a complete joke as there is obviously exceptions to every rule.  You certainly defended TC for not honoring NLI's.

Jesus H, and I've said there are exceptions and even outlined them several times.  READ!

1)  Kid gets in trouble with the law in a serious way
2)  Kid fails to gain admittance to the university.

Neither was the situation in this case....he had the grades, had the test scores, not in trouble with the law.

As far as I know, the ONLY NLI that Crean didn't honor was a kid that had 1 & 2 above as a problem.  Nevertheless, he was going to have to not admit someone anyway because he oversigned.  It was wrong then and it's sure as hell wrong now.  

And yes, the vast majority hasn't called him, his family, his coaches liars, but way too many have and that's pathetic.

[Nukem2]

Jesus H, and I've said there are exceptions and even outlined them several times.  READ!

1)  Kid gets in trouble with the law in a serious way
2)  Kid fails to gain admittance to the university.

Neither was the situation in this case....he had the grades, had the test scores, not in trouble with the law.

As far as I know, the ONLY NLI that Crean didn't honor was a kid that had 1 & 2 above as a problem.  Nevertheless, he was going to have to not admit someone anyway because he oversigned.  It was wrong then and it's sure as hell wrong now.  

And yes, the vast majority hasn't called him, his family, his coaches liars, but way too many have and that's pathetic.

Hmmm...there seems to be a problem with point #2 with this kid...?

[avid1010]

Jesus H, and I've said there are exceptions and even outlined them several times.  READ!
Neither was the situation in this case....he had the grades, had the test scores, not in trouble with the law.

I'm not Jesus, sorry.

Anyhow, you don't know that your 1 or 2 (or both) did not happen.  It's my hope that Buzz is just as likely to relase the kid for a good reason and not make that reason public, as he is to release him because he simply over-recruited.  That being said, I'm not trashing Buzz (like you did) unless he explains why he did what he did.  How do you know DJ didn't do something unethical that set Buzz off?  I don't think it needs to involve a citation to justify being released?  How do you know he wasn't told to get his paperwork in, but was putting it off and talking with other teams?  How do you know his coach wasn't fired for mishandling this situation?  Like I've said, it's unlikely but possible.  So you seem to want to call out those who call DJ's camp liars, yet you want to attack Buzz without knowing the truth either.  When you say people can't have it both ways, it seems like you really want to have it both ways as well.  In other words, you don't feel posters should attack DJ's camp without knowing all the facts (or they should just believe every word they say), yet you want to attack Buzz and staff without knowing all the facts.   You don't have to be Jesus to know that's a$$ backwards.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He was NOT denied admission to the university, so that clears number 2.  In fact, he could not have been because his application wasn't sent in yet.  He had the necessary test scores and grades, better in both areas than MANY players we have admitted in years past.  Admission was not an issue.

As for #1, are you suggesting he was busted for some felony and awaiting trial?  Please. Stop, really, just stop.

You guys make this entirely too difficult and it's not difficult....follow the timelines of when a Wilson transfer became plausible (I didn't say POSSIBLE, I said PLAUSIBLE).  Start there and things come into focus quite clearly.

We didn't have to accept this kids NLI in April because the Wilson transfer was in the works long before that. 

Poorly played by MU, that's the frustrating part.

[MUBasketball]

Please. Stop, really, just stop.

I sure wish you would.

[avid1010]

He was NOT denied admission to the university, so that clears number 2.  In fact, he could not have been because his application wasn't sent in yet.  Nice of you to point out that he didn't apply for school in a timely manner.

As for #1, are you suggesting he was busted for some felony and awaiting trial?  Please. Stop, really, just stop. What kind of loser are you?  The only thing I said is it's possible he did something unethical that set Buzz off, and absolutely nothing about a felony.

You guys make this entirely too difficult and it's not difficult....follow the timelines of when a Wilson transfer became plausible (I didn't say POSSIBLE, I said PLAUSIBLE).  Start there and things come into focus quite clearly. Correct.  Makes it look fishy.  I'm not denying that.

[Strokin 3s]

He was NOT denied admission to the university, so that clears number 2.  In fact, he could not have been because his application wasn't sent in yet.  He had the necessary test scores and grades, better in both areas than MANY players we have admitted in years past.  Admission was not an issue.

As for #1, are you suggesting he was busted for some felony and awaiting trial?  Please. Stop, really, just stop.

You guys make this entirely too difficult and it's not difficult....follow the timelines of when a Wilson transfer became plausible (I didn't say POSSIBLE, I said PLAUSIBLE).  Start there and things come into focus quite clearly.

We didn't have to accept this kids NLI in April because the Wilson transfer was in the works long before that. 

Poorly played by MU, that's the frustrating part.

You're right he was not denied admission, but to quote your earlier post, he DID FAIL TO GAIN ADMISSION.  If you don't turn in an application, surely you can't gain admission.  Nice of you to change the wording to better suit your point in your second post.