Chicos, Let us Know How the Rain Works Out in S. Cal This Week

[WellsstreetWanderer]

The humorous side to this, as CBB knows , is that, regardless of how the rainy season adds up, the news papers will have headlines screaming about the immense fire danger  in the months ahead. Should we have a dry season they will warn that the vegetation is "bone dry" and prone to combustion. Or ,if the season was unusually wet, they will cry in alarm that the brush has exploded with new growth and is a sever fire hazard.  They just rotate theses stories as the conditions warrant.

[reinko]

Actually, no.  The water I get to water my lawn comes from ground wells down here and served to our municipality.

The water for the central valley and further north for farmers comes from various rivers, etc which the state has decided the Delta Smelt fish is more important, among other things.

Now, in certain parts of the state, the water source is the same, but down here in my situation, it is not.


Of course I also have to water my orange trees, plum, apple, etc to keep them alive and producing food. We're close enough to the water that we wouldn't qualify for living in a desert, but a good chunk of So Cal is.  Many of those communities grow tons of food, either for personal use or farming. 

yeah fine.  The irony of complaining about droughts, and gov't interference about saving fish, while folks water lawns at will is a bit humorous.  Cue you complaining about Al Gore flying on a jet creating pollution while circling the globe talking about global warming.

[ChicosBailBonds]

yeah fine.  The irony of complaining about droughts, and gov't interference about saving fish, while folks water lawns at will is a bit humorous.  Cue you complaining about Al Gore flying on a jet creating pollution while circling the globe talking about global warming.

Context means something.  300 BILLION gallons diverted from farmers for a fish.  In only 2 years.  300,000,000,000 gallons.

I'm just eating popcorn on this one as people were warned time and again about some of these policies.  It's always fun when the rooster comes knocking on the door to come home to roost.  Maybe they can divert the $68 billion for the choo choo train (which will almost certainly cost closer to $100 billion even though the voters passed it for $33 billion just 5 years ago) to help fix some of this.  Meanwhile cattle are being culled because ranchers can't feed them due to lack of water, food prices going up, etc, etc.  Going to be fun to watch the ballot boxes this year. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

The humorous side to this, as CBB knows , is that, regardless of how the rainy season adds up, the news papers will have headlines screaming about the immense fire danger  in the months ahead. Should we have a dry season they will warn that the vegetation is "bone dry" and prone to combustion. Or ,if the season was unusually wet, they will cry in alarm that the brush has exploded with new growth and is a sever fire hazard.  They just rotate theses stories as the conditions warrant.

Yup.  Wash.  Rinse.  Repeat.   

[forgetful]

Context means something.  300 BILLION gallons diverted from farmers for a fish.  In only 2 years.  300,000,000,000 gallons.

I'm just eating popcorn on this one as people were warned time and again about some of these policies.  It's always fun when the rooster comes knocking on the door to come home to roost.  Maybe they can divert the $68 billion for the choo choo train (which will almost certainly cost closer to $100 billion even though the voters passed it for $33 billion just 5 years ago) to help fix some of this.  Meanwhile cattle are being culled because ranchers can't feed them due to lack of water, food prices going up, etc, etc.  Going to be fun to watch the ballot boxes this year. 

Chicos you would be wise to inform yourself of the entire scenarios before making bold claims.  First the 300 Billion gallons of water released wouldn't even been enough for 1/2 the farms in California for 1 year nonetheless two.  The problem in California for water is manifold and the delta smelt is not to blame.

First, your use of water from underground aquifers to water your grass contributes significantly to the problem.  By draining the aquifers you lower the overall water-soil table.  Throughout the region.  That means it now requires more water to irrigate crops as you have to provide ample moisture to penetrate deeper into the soil. 

Second a historical establishment of "Corporate farms" that replace family farms in the south (Cotton) and midwest (dairy) has led to the importation of very water expensive crops into regions where there isn't any water.  So instead of growing these crops in soils and climates that can support them, they are now being grown in California…for really no reason but corporate greed and outdated laws on the National level.  The reason for dairy farms in California is that it is as far away from LaCrosse WI as possible, meaning that they got paid the highest prices for Milk (hopefully this law is now gone, but I fear that it is not…for those unaware milk prices were based off distance from LaCrosse WI).

Third, despite being offered incentives, farmers in California are using irrigation techniques that date back 7000 years, instead of using modern approaches that drastically decrease water usage.  There are irrigation techniques that could be employed cheaply that would reduce water consumption by 30% annually…but they haven't done it…instead they bitch about not having enough water for their crops.

Finally, the water approaches used in California have destroyed the ecosystem.  You naively report it as a fish vs. man, but the environment is far more complex than that.  Every thing we do that damages what is perceived of as a local effect, has global repercussions that we don't understand (your water usage indirectly affecting irrigation is a very simple example).  Given that there are solutions that could be employed that would solve these problems and save the ecosystem, without major cost, they should be employed first.

My recommended steps:
1.  Stop watering lawns in california
2.  Encourage farms to leave California and go back to the Midwest and South for water intensive crops (dairy and cotton)…this should be done slowly to limit crop shortages over the short term.
3.  Require farms to adopt water conserving irrigation techniques.

If only 1 and 3 were done you would see the water problems in California nearly completely alleviated and the delta smelt would still be alive and well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I can copy and paste from an environmental website as well.  No thanks.  Spending some time up here in Ventura this weekend, waiting right now for everyone to shake off the night of drinking...LOL. A bunch of my wife's relatives from the Central Valley (Clovis, Fresno)...they are here and it was a hot topic last night.  Lots of people to blame Forgetful, as I mentioned last week.  Tons of finger pointing going on right now and I'm just enjoying the Sh!t out of it.

You're not going to take the largest agricultural state in the union and move farms.  Secondly, the water being diverted won't solve the problem, never said it would.  To your point, however, it would make an enormous dent but the poor smelt fish....we must protect.  smh

Watering lawns....red herring mostly, but I'll play along.  I'd be fine stopping it, but then you better get all these HOAs and municipalities that fine people for lawns that look like crap or are unkept.  And wait until it takes down curb appeal and property values, folks will love that.  Are they hypocritical...probably.   Of course without the lawns growing what are you going to do with all the undocumented workers here that rely on that work....the libs will go nuts.  What a tangled web we weave.  LOL

[forgetful]

I can copy and paste from an environmental website as well.  No thanks.  Spending some time up here in Ventura this weekend, waiting right now for everyone to shake off the night of drinking...LOL. A bunch of my wife's relatives from the Central Valley (Clovis, Fresno)...they are here and it was a hot topic last night.  Lots of people to blame Forgetful, as I mentioned last week.  Tons of finger pointing going on right now and I'm just enjoying the Sh!t out of it.

You're not going to take the largest agricultural state in the union and move farms.  Secondly, the water being diverted won't solve the problem, never said it would.  To your point, however, it would make an enormous dent but the poor smelt fish....we must protect.  smh

Watering lawns....red herring mostly, but I'll play along.  I'd be fine stopping it, but then you better get all these HOAs and municipalities that fine people for lawns that look like crap or are unkept.  And wait until it takes down curb appeal and property values, folks will love that.  Are they hypocritical...probably.   Of course without the lawns growing what are you going to do with all the undocumented workers here that rely on that work....the libs will go nuts.  What a tangled web we weave.  LOL

Never went to a single environmental website for my facts.  I don't trust them.  To be more specific on the numbers.  If all the water (300 billion gallons) had instead been diverted to farms for irrigation it would have been enough water to support 1.3% of the farms.  My 1/2 was way way way too generous.  So it would not make an ENORMOUS DENT, it would actually be inconsequential.

If you are curious about my numbers, California farmers use 36 million acre ft of water each year to irrigate crops.  Each acre ft is 326,000 gallons.  So we have 3.6E7 acre ft and 3.26E5 for 1.2E13 total gallons of water for agriculture.  In 2 years 3E11 gallons of water were diverted.  so that is 1.5E11 gallons per year, divided by the total required 1.2E13 and you have 1.3% of farms could have been irrigated.

If they employed better irrigation approaches they could conserve, 3.5 trillion gallons of water each year.  But yeah the 150 billion gallons for the delta smelt is the problem.

[🏀]

Unwatered lawns aren't dropping property values.

[muwarrior69]

Chicos, do the fish vote?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Chicos, do the fish vote?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, do the fish vote?

No, neither do the cows, chickens, etc.  There is a hierarchy on the planet.  Just as if I'm out in the forest and a bear decides to make a meal of me, I don't get to vote either if I don't have the ability to defend myself.


Yes, landscaping can have huge impact on property values...lawns, etc.  You should read through some of the HMAs here and why they charge $1000 a month to drive property values.


Forgetful, drive up and down highway 99 or I5 sometime when you are out here.  For well over a decade there have been signs along the freeway like this.  Lots of folks to blame, farmers, politicians, environmentalists, and yes you can blame people for watering their lawns or having swimming pools.  I'm going to enjoy my popcorn and watch it unfurl...I know the brilliance in state gov't will certainly not kick the can down the road and certainly will come up with an equitable solution that is financially sound....as I'm sure businesses will do their part as well.

[wildbill sb]

I can copy and paste from an environmental website as well.  No thanks.  Spending some time up here in Ventura this weekend, waiting right now for everyone to shake off the night of drinking...LOL. A bunch of my wife's relatives from the Central Valley (Clovis, Fresno)...they are here and it was a hot topic last night.  Lots of people to blame Forgetful, as I mentioned last week.  Tons of finger pointing going on right now and I'm just enjoying the Sh!t out of it.

You're not going to take the largest agricultural state in the union and move farms.  Secondly, the water being diverted won't solve the problem, never said it would.  To your point, however, it would make an enormous dent but the poor smelt fish....we must protect.  smh

Watering lawns....red herring mostly, but I'll play along.  I'd be fine stopping it, but then you better get all these HOAs and municipalities that fine people for lawns that look like crap or are unkept.  And wait until it takes down curb appeal and property values, folks will love that.  Are they hypocritical...probably.   Of course without the lawns growing what are you going to do with all the undocumented workers here that rely on that work....the libs will go nuts.  What a tangled web we weave.  LOL

Flippancy vs. scientific rationale.  My, my, what your geologist father say?

[🏀]

I guess I won't underestimate the vanity of California then.

When the midwest was faced with the drought of 2012, there were few sparingly green yards out there, even in subdivisions with inground sprinkler systems.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://juliebillett.com/tag/lawn-care-increases-property-value/

http://www.diynetwork.com/maximum-value-projects-landscaping/package/index.html

http://www.unitedhomeexperts.com/blog/bid/101658/Increasing-Your-Property-Value-With-Lawn-Care

[ChicosBailBonds]

For the record, I'm not anti-environment...in fact I consider myself to be quite pro environment.  I put in solar panels last year, we have solar lights, I carpool 5 days a week, etc, etc.  I just think too many extremists pull it in one direction and we get silly decisions like this that cost jobs, human lives, etc. 

[rocky_warrior]

Today, American lawns occupy some 30-40 million acres of land. Lawnmowers to maintain them account for some 5 percent of the nation’s air pollution – probably more in urban areas. Each year more than 17 million gallons of fuel are spilled during the refilling of lawn and garden equipment—more than the oil that the Exxon Valdez spilled.

Homeowners spend billions of dollars and typically use 10 times the amount of pesticide and fertilizers per acre on their lawns as farmers do on crops; the majority of these chemicals are wasted due to inappropriate timing and application. These chemicals then runoff and become a major source of water pollution.Last but not least, 30 to 60 percent of urban fresh water is used on lawns. Most of this water is also wasted due to poor timing and application.

http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2010/06/04/the-problem-of-lawns/

Listen, I really don't care if people choose to have lawns and water them.   But if you do, you have no right to bitch about water being wasted elsewhere.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I don't water my lawn as it would just mean I would have to mow it more often.  It grows fast enough as it is.  Of course, I live in New England and water shortage isn't so much a problem..............

[Spotcheck Billy]

so is the next Bubble to burst related to Cali farming and H2O?

This all started with Mullholland didn't it?


<popcorn>

[ChicosBailBonds]

Listen, I really don't care if people choose to have lawns and water them.   But if you do, you have no right to bitch about water being wasted elsewhere.

We have every right to complain.  Drops in the bucket compared to what is being diverted for a fish.  If you want to go down the path you are arguing, then why not take it to the extreme.  Can't wash your cars anymore.  Artificial fields at every high school, no more golf courses, so on and so forth.  

300 billion gallons in just two years....diverted for a fish.  California supplies so much food to this country, but the delta fish is more important.


PS  My lawnmower is rechargeable...no fuel needed.

[forgetful]

We have every right to complain.  Drops in the bucket compared to what is being diverted for a fish.  If you want to go down the path you are arguing, then why not take it to the extreme.  Can't wash your cars anymore.  Artificial fields at every high school, no more golf courses, so on and so forth.  

300 billion gallons in just two years....diverted for a fish.  California supplies so much food to this country, but the delta fish is more important.


PS  My lawnmower is rechargeable...no fuel needed.

Californian's use 1.3 Trillion gallons of water each year for landscaping.  That is nearly 10 times as much as has been diverted for fish.  So the only thing that is a drop in the bucket is how much is being diverted for the fish.  Compared to what is used for landscaping (10 times more) and for agriculture (100 times more) is where the water is going.

But don't let facts get in the way, keep going after the delta smelt as being a problem.

And as for the numbers.  Californians use 196 gallons of water per day per capita.  50% of the usage is for landscaping purposes.  I rounded up to 200 gallons so that 100 gallons per day for landscaping.

100 gallons multiplied by 38E6 (Population of california) multiplied by 365 days is 1.3 trillion gallons.

[🏀]

I take pride in my lawn and landscaping, I don't need the links.

However, I was happy to let it go brown when ponds and creeks were bone dry two years ago.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Your math is faulty as sprinklers don't run 7 days a week plus much landscaping water is actually recycled water in So Cal.  Many signs in Spanish warning that it is not potable .

[forgetful]

Your math is faulty as sprinklers don't run 7 days a week plus much landscaping water is actually recycled water in So Cal.  Many signs in Spanish warning that it is not potable .

The math is based on government statistics that state that 50% of all water used is for landscaping purposes.  In that regards it doesn't matter how many days a week they run (total ends up being 50%) and if non potable water is used it wouldn't be included in the total potable water usage.

[Benny B]

Any state that complains about drought, but allows people to water grass in a desert is idiotic.  And yes, I count metro Denver in that group.  Don't bitch about clean drinking water when very little of it is used for drinking.

I take it that the purple pipes aren't available to residential owners in metro Denver?

[ChicosBailBonds]

The math is based on government statistics that state that 50% of all water used is for landscaping purposes.  In that regards it doesn't matter how many days a week they run (total ends up being 50%) and if non potable water is used it wouldn't be included in the total potable water usage.

Gov't numbers are usually pretty awesome.  Last I heard the gov't stats here in Cal said our choo choo train was going to only cost $33billion.  In only 3 years, it became $67billion....now estimates are by the time it will be finished it should come in around $100billion. 

I want to be a gov't accountant or finance guy one day where the swag of error can be off by that much without a hint of a problem.