If Crean Stayed, How Would Things Be Different?

[Tugg Speedman]

Since the season is just past the half-way point ......

15 -2 overall, 4 - 0 in the BE.
One of the better recruiting classes in the last 20 years.

If Crean stayed, how could he have improved on things?  Would it have even been this good?

Can we proclaim the Buzz hiring a sucess?  If not, what more do we need to see before we can proclaim it sucessful?

[OneMadWarrior]

Wow, overreact Much?

[Fred Garvin]

We would have had at least two or three players hurt because they would be practicing in shoulder pads.Dominic would be suffering from cramps all the time.We would be pushing diet pepsi.Burke wouldn't be developing as the season goes on because we wouldn't have ass. coaches who work with big guys.That's for starters.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Since the season is just past the half-way point ......

15 -2 overall, 4 - 0 in the BE.
One of the better recruiting classes in the last 20 years.

If Crean stayed, how could he have improved on things?  Would it have even been this good?

Can we proclaim the Buzz hiring a sucess?  If not, what more do we need to see before we can proclaim it sucessful?

We'll never know, impossible to tell.   We would have Nick Williams on this team along with Tyshawn Taylor (who STARTS for national champion Kansas).  Taylor would probably be our 6th man I would guess.  Williams would be somewhere around  8th.  Butler would not be on the team. 


The record would likely be identical....our 4-0 start in the Big East is against 4 teams that all have losing records in the Big East (Nova 1-2, WVU 1-2, Rutgers 0-3, UC 0-2).  Hard to fathom we wouldn't have the same record in conference considering who we've played thus far.  If you disagree, fine but I'd like to know who we wouldn't have beaten in those 4 games considering three of them were at home and MU had a phenomenal record at home under Crean.


So it's impossible to say, but my guess is the record would be the same.  Which games that we have won do you think we would have lost? 

[Blackhat]

We'll never know, impossible to tell.   We would have Nick Williams on this team along with Tyshawn Taylor.  Taylor would probably be our 6th man I would guess.  Williams would be somewhere around  8th.  Butler would not be on the team. 


The record would likely be identical....our 4-0 start in the Big East is against 4 teams that all have losing records in the Big East.  Hard to fathom we wouldn't have the same record in conference. 


So it's impossible to say, but my guess is the record would be the same.  Which games that we have won do you think we would have lost? 

Rutgers?   Just kidding (sort of) but this is silly man.   Crean is a good coach and we were trending toward a year and BE start like this.   Buzz still has much to prove, so lets just be happy we're meeting or exceding expectations and not worry about Crean.

[ChicosBailBonds]

We would have had at least two or three players hurt because they would be practicing in shoulder pads.Dominic would be suffering from cramps all the time.We would be pushing diet pepsi.Burke wouldn't be developing as the season goes on because we wouldn't have ass. coaches who work with big guys.That's for starters.

Unlike the three players we've had hurt this year in practice....McMorrow, Fulce, Otule...right.   

[MarquetteDano]

Since the season is just past the half-way point ......

15 -2 overall, 4 - 0 in the BE.
One of the better recruiting classes in the last 20 years.

If Crean stayed, how could he have improved on things?  Would it have even been this good?

Can we proclaim the Buzz hiring a sucess?  If not, what more do we need to see before we can proclaim it sucessful?

The Crean-Buzz comparisons really shouldn't be closed until Buzz has an entire class graduate of his own.  I understand people want to do it early, and there are some valid points one can compare on already, but the true test will be four years from now.  Then we can perform a full comparison and decide whether the hire was an success.

[77ncaachamps]

TT is starting for a team who's being doubled up right now.

The Crean-Buzz comparisons really shouldn't be closed until Buzz has an entire class graduate of his own.  I understand people want to do it early, and there are some valid points one can compare on already, but the true test will be four years from now.  Then we can perform a full comparison and decide whether the hire was an success.

Agreed. What happens AFTER this year is probably the BIGGEST thing that will happen to Buzz, second only to being hired at MU.

[Fred Garvin]

Were they hurt due to the extreme methods Crean used?

[tower912]

The only difference would be the style of offense and the incoming recruit class.   Impossible to say if our record would be different.    TC is getting his this year.   Accept the karma and move on. 

[MR.HAYWARD]

i beleive we would have lost to WVU, Rutgers and NCSU is Tommy Naismith were coaching and we would be 11-5 right now.  Typical Cream on our way to a 6-7-8 seed and a double didgit loss season. IMO

[ChicosBailBonds]

TT is starting for a team who's being doubled up right now.

Agreed. What happens AFTER this year is probably the BIGGEST thing that will happen to Buzz, second only to being hired at MU.

That's correct, but he's still starting for KU....a team that I believe beat Tennessee, beat Washington.  Today they are losing, but let's not forget the good wins they have as well with TT starting for them.

Barry Switzer could could this year's team to success.

We'll know a lot more about Buzz in several years.

This year's senior class is arguably the greatest in MU's history.  I said arguably....I can't imagine them not being in the top 3 of senior classes all time at MU and can make a strong case for them being at the top, which is subjective obviously.  It's great for Buzz because he can build off that momentum, show recruits that he's a great coach (even if we don't know yet), etc, etc. 

Everything is setup PERFECTLY for Buzz right now and so far, he's taking advantage of it.  Which is great news for all of us.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Were they hurt due to the extreme methods Crean used?

So what you're really saying is that players get hurt in practice regardless of who the coach is or what they are doing.  We've had more injuries this year then in any other year that I can remember, despite the "extreme methods" used.  Can you identify a year where we've had more major injuries to players?

[tower912]

Please, for the love of all thats holy, let it go, people.   Focus on what we have, and what is coming up.   TC is gone for what he thought was a better job.   He is getting his abe handed to him this year.   LET HIM GO!!!!   ITS OVER!!!   This is a special team.   If Buzz follows up this incoming class with another good one, in 2 years we are going to be a title contender.    Focus on that.

[IAmMarquette]

Please, for the love of all thats holy, let it go, people.   Focus on what we have, and what is coming up.   TC is gone for what he thought was a better job.   He is getting his abe handed to him this year.   LET HIM GO!!!!   ITS OVER!!!   This is a special team.   If Buzz follows up this incoming class with another good one, in 2 years we are going to be a title contender.    Focus on that.

Thank you. THANK YOU. Great Odin's Raven! Does every thread on here have to pit Crean vs. Buzz? Some of you guys make it really difficult for the rest of us to enjoy this great forum.

[The Man in Gold]

At this point all you can say for sure is there would have been more set plays, we would hear about deflections ad nauseum, Pepsi would have had a spokesman for there new look Diet Pepsi, and no one would be talking about Wesley Matthews pro-potential.

Both coaches would have won games.  Crean probably would have beat Bruce Pearl but may have tanked at NC State.  Let's just enjoy the ride and worry about this in April.

[nola03]

It's a shame someone attempts to ruin the good mood about this team by bringing up a former coach.

[Tugg Speedman]

So to those that questioned Buzz's hiring, the first 17 games mean nothing?  The Golden Eagle mascot could have coached this team to 15 and 2 and recruited Junior, Maymon, EK, etc.

For those that say we have to wait until his first class graduates, why stop their.  Why not wait a generation to make your decision.  In fact, have we waited long enough to pass judgment of Al McGuire?

You're just giving yourself enough time to find a flaw to criticize.  That is why you could never be an AD, you cannot make a decision, only criticize.  The big chair is not for you.

Let's give the AD and administration its due, after 8 million posts bashing them over the Buzz hiring, the guy is meeting expectations and recruiting well.  Just admit you were wrong and Father Wild knows more about hiring head coaches than you do. 

The first step to reforming yourself is admitting your failures.

[Fred Garvin]

I give a lot of credit to Buzz's asst. coaches.I think there doing a great job!
Keep it up and go MU!

[4everwarriors]

Where should I begin? Lovin' every minute of it.



Celebrate FFC----Freedom From Crean

on April 1

[muarmy81]

The record would likely be identical....our 4-0 start in the Big East is against 4 teams that all have losing records in the Big East (Nova 1-2, WVU 1-2, Rutgers 0-3, UC 0-2).  Hard to fathom we wouldn't have the same record in conference considering who we've played thus far.  If you disagree, fine but I'd like to know who we wouldn't have beaten in those 4 games considering three of them were at home and MU had a phenomenal record at home under Crean.

With Crean we won some games we shouldn't have in the BE and lost some games we shouldn't have lost but right now Buzz is 4-0 in the Big East with the same lineup as last year minus our major post contributor from last year. (Ooze)  I know you've never bashed buzz but you got to admit that this is a very great start especially from someone that many people were very disappointed in when he was named the head coach.  Is he going to go undefeated? No.  Is he going to make the NCAA tourney next year?  Hope so but why can't the Buzz detractors and Crean supporters give Buzz some credit.  Whether these are Buzz's players or not or if next year is going to be tougher, the bottom line is that Buzz is 4-0 with this group and nobody else has even started 2-0 with this group.

Edit:  And on the flip side of my own argument what if we were 0-4?  How bad would those Buzz detractors be bashing the man now?  Again, you got to give him some credit, whether you agred with the "process" or not. 

[MarquetteDano]

So to those that questioned Buzz's hiring, the first 17 games mean nothing?  The Golden Eagle mascot could have coached this team to 15 and 2 and recruited Junior, Maymon, EK, etc.

For those that say we have to wait until his first class graduates, why stop their.  Why not wait a generation to make your decision.  In fact, have we waited long enough to pass judgment of Al McGuire?

You're just giving yourself enough time to find a flaw to criticize.  That is why you could never be an AD, you cannot make a decision, only criticize.  The big chair is not for you.

Let's give the AD and administration its due, after 8 million posts bashing them over the Buzz hiring, the guy is meeting expectations and recruiting well.  Just admit you were wrong and Father Wild knows more about hiring head coaches than you do. 

The first step to reforming yourself is admitting your failures.

I understand you are battling with others who don't like the hire, but I have never bashed the hire.  I like Buzz, but I am not going to call this a success until he has graduated a class.  I think to do so is premature.  What if all these recruits transfer, or can't make the grade?

We are ALL Marquette fans.  Let's stop cheering  based on our egos and wanting to be right, and start cheering for Marquette, which includes the players, Buzz, etc..

[ChicosBailBonds]

So to those that questioned Buzz's hiring, the first 17 games mean nothing?  The Golden Eagle mascot could have coached this team to 15 and 2 and recruited Junior, Maymon, EK, etc.

For those that say we have to wait until his first class graduates, why stop their.  Why not wait a generation to make your decision.  In fact, have we waited long enough to pass judgment of Al McGuire?

You're just giving yourself enough time to find a flaw to criticize.  That is why you could never be an AD, you cannot make a decision, only criticize.  The big chair is not for you.

Let's give the AD and administration its due, after 8 million posts bashing them over the Buzz hiring, the guy is meeting expectations and recruiting well.  Just admit you were wrong and Father Wild knows more about hiring head coaches than you do. 

The first step to reforming yourself is admitting your failures.

First off, EK signed with Crean so not sure why you brought that up.

But yes, you do have to wait.  I hope like hell Buzz is the guy.  So far, he hasn't done anything to suggest he isn't the guy, but the collective love fest some are getting is also way too early.  Some of you are like little girls after the first kiss.  You have to wait and the reasons are obvious.

Let me give you a few examples of coaches that took over and had great talent left for them and excelled, but a few years later they were gone.  That's why you have to wait.

Bruiser Flint at UMASS.  Took Coach Cal's players, did well a few years but then was let go.  With Cal's players, he went 19-14, 21-11 (both NCAAs), but by his third year (mostly his players and his coaching) they were 14-16, 4th year 17-16, 5th year 15-15.    That's why you have to wait.

Matt Doherty.  Bill Guthridge.  Steve Lavin.  Etc, etc, etc.  And the lists go on and on and on.   No one here knows, absolutely no one.  Everyone hopes Buzz is the guy, but the landscape is littered with guys that have been in this type of situation and did well one or two years only to have the bloom come off the rose.

Personally, I think Buzz is going to make it and I sure as hell want him to.  But we won't know for quite some time for sure.

And Hayward, you're out of your mind if you think Crean's teams would have lost the games you mentioned.  You are not looking at reality.

[ChicosBailBonds]

With Crean we won some games we shouldn't have in the BE and lost some games we shouldn't have lost but right now Buzz is 4-0 in the Big East with the same lineup as last year minus our major post contributor from last year. (Ooze)  I know you've never bashed buzz but you got to admit that this is a very great start especially from someone that many people were very disappointed in when he was named the head coach.  Is he going to go undefeated? No.  Is he going to make the NCAA tourney next year?  Hope so but why can't the Buzz detractors and Crean supporters give Buzz some credit.  Whether these are Buzz's players or not or if next year is going to be tougher, the bottom line is that Buzz is 4-0 with this group and nobody else has even started 2-0 with this group.

Edit:  And on the flip side of my own argument what if we were 0-4?  How bad would those Buzz detractors be bashing the man now?  Again, you got to give him some credit, whether you agred with the "process" or not. 

We're off to a great start and the start we should be off to.  I thought we would be 3-1 right now (with 34 seconds in that Rutgers game the other day, I was afraid it might happen) but we're 4-0.  Everyone knew the beginning of the schedule was a lot easier then the end.  We're winning games we're supposed to be winning.  We've played 4 Big East teams, all 4 have a losing record, three of the four were at home and the one road game was against a team that has lost 8 straight conference games at home.  So as good as the 4-0 start is, let's not go overboard quite yet.  There are perspectives that need to be put into play regarding who we have played as well.

If this team started out 0-4 with this lineup and who we have playing, arguably the best senior class in our history, then of course it would be brought to the forefront.  This team should be doing this well and IS doing this well.

[Blackhat]

You guys are still talking about this....jeebus.   yes we have to wait to get an answer on Buzz.   But you can count Erik Williams 100% as a Buzz get.   Erik was going wherever Buzz was coaching same as Nick Williams going wherever Bernie Seltzer was coaching.