LeBron to... odds

[GoldenWarrior]

So what are the odds in your guys' opinions for the NBA teams and landing LBJ?

I really think it's a 3 horse race for LBJ's services:  Cleveland, Chicago and Miami

Chicago - 50%
Cleveland - 40%
Miami - 10%

Cleveland is his hometown and can offer the most money (provided LBJ signs a 6 year deal, NOT a 3 year deal), still not a bad roster, but not great and capped currently restricting possible roster moves.  They are what he knows and they've done everything they reasonably could to try and win now for him, still haven't but still clearly willing to continue to pay and try.

Chicago has a strong young core in Rose and Noah to build on alongside LeBron, Chicago could also be in the running for a sign and trade for Bosh from TOR.  They still have a questionable front office and organization that hasn't been willing to pay historically and with Noah and Rose's contracts coming due in a few years, will they still be there?  Chicago really needs to convince LeBron that their front office is changing their ways and will be willing to pay...

Miami is a long shot if you ask me.  Many egos to try and pack in there and don't kid yourselves NBA players are egotistical and it isn't as easy for them to set aside their egos as it may be for any of us.  Not all 3 can have max deals here either.  Also, they would still need to fill out that roster somehow with still quality role players (yes veterans would be likely to sign for minimums to win a 'ship, but still need to find the right ones)

[reinko]

I read a scenario, Bron Bron, signs a 1 year deal with Cleveland, goes all in, giving the city and team one last shot to win a title.  If he doesn't win it, he is gone, and saves him face in his home town (which I believe is a legitimate thing in his eyes, hometown loyalty, paired with no other recent superstar, (maybe other than Shaq) ever had to switch teams to win a title, Kobe, MJ, Duncan...

[damuts222]

They still have a questionable front office and organization that hasn't been willing to pay historically and with Noah and Rose's contracts coming due in a few years, will they still be there?  Chicago really needs to convince LeBron that their front office is changing their ways and will be willing to pay...

 Luol Deng anyone, he got paid, look what good that did

[RJax55]

I read a scenario, Bron Bron, signs a 1 year deal with Cleveland, goes all in, giving the city and team one last shot to win a title.

I don't understand that scenario. He has had 7 years in Cleveland to win a title. Why does the author think that next year will be the magic year for the Cavs?

Are they going to be adding any additional talent to the roster? Plus, what big time free agent will sign a long-term deal there knowing that James might leave at the end of season? Also, if I was a Cavs fan, I would hate this. It just extends the guessing game another season. At this point, I would want Lebron to committ to the Cavs long-term or move on.

[HoopsMalone]

Cleveland has a week to pull over the biggest sign and trade in history and some how get Chris Paul, Chris Bosh, Dirk, Melo, anyone up to Cleveland.  JJ Hickson is a nice piece and then throw in a bunch of players and their next 5 draft picks or something.  It is possible, but not very likely.  That is probably the only way James stays if he is serious about winning.

Jerry Reinsdorf will pay his players.  He has done it in Chicago (MJ $30 million) and he has kept around big money players with the White Sox (ie Mark Buerlhe).  He has taken risks to win such as Dennis Rodman and Albert Bell.  I think the "owner wont pay" is not true and James will see that. 

Miami is not happening in my opinion.  I think Bosh may go down there and Wade will resign, but the Heat would be better off putting good role players around them rather than a third all-star. 

Cleveland has the edge if they make a move.  If they add an all-star calibur player, James won't even think about it.  He signs.  If they do not make a move, James has to play with Derrick Rose in Chicago.  Then the Bulls, I think, should sign a few players rather than go for two max deals.  That is just me though.

[GoldenWarrior]

I don't understand that scenario. He has had 7 years in Cleveland to win a title. Why does the author think that next year will be the magic year for the Cavs?

Are they going to be adding any additional talent to the roster? Plus, what big time free agent will sign a long-term deal there knowing that James might leave at the end of season? Also, if I was a Cavs fan, I would hate this. It just extends the guessing game another season. At this point, I would want Lebron to committ to the Cavs long-term or move on.

+1

[GoldenWarrior]

Cleveland has a week to pull over the biggest sign and trade in history and some how get Chris Paul, Chris Bosh, Dirk, Melo, anyone up to Cleveland.  JJ Hickson is a nice piece and then throw in a bunch of players and their next 5 draft picks or something.  It is possible, but not very likely.  That is probably the only way James stays if he is serious about winning.

Jerry Reinsdorf will pay his players.  He has done it in Chicago (MJ $30 million) and he has kept around big money players with the White Sox (ie Mark Buerlhe).  He has taken risks to win such as Dennis Rodman and Albert Bell.  I think the "owner wont pay" is not true and James will see that. 

Miami is not happening in my opinion.  I think Bosh may go down there and Wade will resign, but the Heat would be better off putting good role players around them rather than a third all-star. 

Cleveland has the edge if they make a move.  If they add an all-star calibur player, James won't even think about it.  He signs.  If they do not make a move, James has to play with Derrick Rose in Chicago.  Then the Bulls, I think, should sign a few players rather than go for two max deals.  That is just me though.

Why is everyone so quick to write off the Cleveland roster?  As Cleveland made moves these past few years everyone praised them as good quality moves and now all of a sudden it's just well that team sucks.  I'm not saying they are the best option for LeBron necessarily, but you take LBJ off the Cavs team and they still about beat CHI every time they played without LBJ if I'm not mistaken.  I don't think that there are THAT glaring of advantages to CHI's roster over CLE's personally... are there some, most definitely, earth shattering, no.  I do understand that playoffs is where it all matters and there the Cavs have failed collectively, but I wouldn't be so quick to just write them off.  LeBron likes a lot of the guys in CLE currently and may be wanting to see it all come together and may be willing to finally give the franchise some time to run like a franchise should instead of holding them hostage to the win a title NOW every year mentality.

Just wondering, you said if The Cavs don't make a move LeBron has to play with D Rose in Chicago... why?

[HoopsMalone]

If I was Cleveland I would go for it.  One year if need be.  You don't get chances to win titles every year.  The Cavs will not be favored, but it beats the basement.   Even if you are only delaying the basement for one year.

The Cavs roster is pretty good, but it is aging.  Shaq and Jamison are not going to be able to bring it.  I also do not think Mo Williams is a good enough compliment to James.  That guy Hickson would really need to improve for it to be a good supporting cast and Jamison and Shaq will need to stay healthy and productive, which is tough to say will happen.  They are a team where James could put the team on his back for multiple games and they could put it together still, but its no guarantee they would beat an upgraded Miami or Chicago, or even Orlando and Boston as-is.  (Though Boston is probably about done unless they make a move to get more athletic).  They definitely get eaten alive inside against LA and probably lose in 5 to the Lakers.

Most of the compliments to the Cavs team was how they fit with Lebron on offense, but no one said anything about defense.  Shaq and Jamison are a championship defensive presence inside in my opinion.  The guards on Cleveland are nothing to write home about on Cleveland either.  The playoffs say Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo light up the Cavs back court and Joakim Noah emerge as a player inside and Kevin Garnet get his game back against the Cavs front line.  Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol would destroy the Cleveland front line.

I think that Lebron needs a PG to play with, is why Derrick Rose is perfect for him to play with in the half court.  The Cavs seem to have a lot of half court sets where they pass they ball around and then James is just standing at the top and they get him the ball with the clock winding down.  A true PG allows James to go to the wing and get fed the ball in good spots.  James would be even more lethal scoring.  Rose can also create his own shot, which no one else on the Cavs can really do.  It's also just a flat out upgrade, would you rather play with Derrick Rose or Mo Williams.

And that is just the half court offense.  James and Rose would be lethal in transition together and Rose is athletic enough to cover a Kobe or a Wade if need be so Lebron would not have to.  I remember Lebron had to guard Rose against the Bulls.  Dwayne Wade would fit this need for James too. 

The Cavs should get aggressive and trade away half their team for Chris Paul or something big.  They can keep James, but not with what they have I think.

[MUBurrow]

am i the only person in the world that still thinks he's going to be a Knick?

[GoldenWarrior]

am i the only person in the world that still thinks he's going to be a Knick?

Yes

HoopsMalone:  I like your overall analysis.  The Cavs are aging in some spots and it sucks because as a Cavs fan I feel like a lot of these guys would never have been on this team in the first place if LeBron had provided us time as an organization to do it the right way... that's a whole other discussion though in itself!

Jamison will still have a productive two years if you ask me (he also has 2 more years on his contract).  Shaq MAY get resigned simply for Howard in the playoffs and that's it... no more of the Mike Brown idea of actually feeding him the ball.  Hickson is now getting into his third year and seems to be set to fulfill his potential.  Anderson is a strong defender and rebounder and just one of those glue guys.

Guard play is our biggest weakness, especially on the defensive end... it's a joke more or less.  Delonte West is our best defensive guard.  Mo can create his own shot and is pretty sound offensively, but he has no clue what defense is.  The thing though is that you think LeBron wants to play off the ball... I don't agree.  he loves passing and loves having the offense run through him.  he wants to be the creator, not the receiver.  So, in that regard and only that regard to I think that he may prefer a Mo Williams over a D Rose.  As for anything else D Rose makes sense.  The kid is a stud clearly and a better option than Mo Williams, but I'm just not sold on LeBron wanting to be playing off the ball that much.

D Rose and LBJ on a break would be impossible to defend.

[RawdogDX]

Bulls - 53
Heat - 39
Nets - 3
Nicks - 3
Cavs - 1

When Izzo was given a contract offer he asked to meet with lebron. LBJ refused to meet with him. 

I think he's done there.

[HoopsMalone]

Cleveland has no perimeter defense and defense wins titles.  Rose and Noah can play D, so the choice should be obvious for James if he leaves.

[DegenerateDish]

There are better odds of Crean coaching at Marquette again than LBJ signing a one year deal with the Cavs.

With the new CBA hanging over all these guys heads, they're all signing five year open market deals or six year sign/trade deals.

[GoldenWarrior]

There are better odds of Crean coaching at Marquette again than LBJ signing a one year deal with the Cavs.

+1

With the new CBA hanging over all these guys heads, they're all signing five year open market deals or six year sign/trade deals.

I can see LeBron signing a three year deal somewhere, whether it be CLE, Miami, CHI, etc

[shiloh26]

I still think he stays in Cleveland.  Shaq will be gone, giving Hickson more time.  If he develops, their frontcourt is just fine.  Although anything outside of Chicago's frontcourt, featuring the Joakim Noah show, would simply shrivel and die against the Lakers for some on here.  (Sorry, have to pick on Bulls fans, all in good fun).  
 
The Miami scenario, though a badass scenario, is a pipe dream.  I agree that Chicago IS the best situation, but I think LeBron likes home a little more than people think.  It's easy to get caught up in the 'where will he go' whirlwind, and forget that he really likes being in Cleveland.  The team still wins a ton of games, and now has a competent coach who won't feel the inexplicable need to play Big Z and Shaq next to each other in the damn conference semis while Varejao and Hickson watch on the bench.  

He's still looking for a reason to leave, rather than a reason not to leave.  

[HoopsMalone]

You joke about the LA frontline, but all those tip in victories they had in the playoffs suggest otherwise.  The LA big guys are the difference in this league right now. 

Noah is an up and coming defensive big man.  That is not a joke.  Stopping big men will win championships.  You don't go to the Bulls just for Noah, but he gives you something consistent for a long time.  Add Brad Miller back for cheap and another year of Gibson and Noah developing, and you get a strong defensive frontline regardless of who else comes.  That should be a good selling point.

Noah is not a huge offensive threat.... unless he is playing the Cavs:  http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3224

Interior defense is just one of Cleveland's achilles heals.  Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo torched the Cleveland backcourt. 

Cleveland can put up a lot of points, but don't get any stops.  Even the pulls put up big numbers after trading away all of their scoring.  The Cavs defense made Kirk Hinrich look like he was back at Kansas.

Even with all that, James may go back.  The Cavs are looking at making some moves.  I think Scott is a good coach.  Maybe he can get Chris Paul up to Cleveland. 

[HoopsMalone]

Hickson is definitely gone in any sign and trade as well. 

[willie warrior]

I read a scenario, Bron Bron, signs a 1 year deal with Cleveland, goes all in, giving the city and team one last shot to win a title.  If he doesn't win it, he is gone, and saves him face in his home town (which I believe is a legitimate thing in his eyes, hometown loyalty, paired with no other recent superstar, (maybe other than Shaq) ever had to switch teams to win a title, Kobe, MJ, Duncan...

Problem with a 1 year deal would be he could end up with a lot less money that might come out of salary structure established ny new CBA>

[GoldenWarrior]

You joke about the LA frontline, but all those tip in victories they had in the playoffs suggest otherwise.  The LA big guys are the difference in this league right now. 

Noah is an up and coming defensive big man.  That is not a joke.  Stopping big men will win championships.  You don't go to the Bulls just for Noah, but he gives you something consistent for a long time.  Add Brad Miller back for cheap and another year of Gibson and Noah developing, and you get a strong defensive frontline regardless of who else comes.  That should be a good selling point.

Noah is not a huge offensive threat.... unless he is playing the Cavs:  http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3224

Interior defense is just one of Cleveland's achilles heals.  Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo torched the Cleveland backcourt. 

Cleveland can put up a lot of points, but don't get any stops.  Even the pulls put up big numbers after trading away all of their scoring.  The Cavs defense made Kirk Hinrich look like he was back at Kansas.

Even with all that, James may go back.  The Cavs are looking at making some moves.  I think Scott is a good coach.  Maybe he can get Chris Paul up to Cleveland. 

Anderson plays very strong defense on the inside for the Cavaliers... really not a big difference between Anderson and Noah in that regard.  Yes, early in his career Anderson flopped all the time and has since continued to carry that tag, but if you actually take time and watch his game, his defense has truly become impressive.  there's a reason why he was in the running for defensive player of the year this past season.

Hinrich had his moments in that series, but he didn't exactly put up THAT great of numbers... Rose did.  The Cavaliers defense needs to be improved on the wings.  If your wings can guard that allows your big defenders to be in better position as well and pick up their defense.  Jamison sucks on D... look at what KG did to him, lol.

CP3 isn't coming to CLE, though I'd LOVE it is an understatement, lol.

[GoldenWarrior]

I love this video:

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[GoldenWarrior]

I love this video:

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/morethanaplayer_splash_100630.html

Sorry the embedding didn't work...

[shiloh26]

Anderson plays very strong defense on the inside for the Cavaliers... really not a big difference between Anderson and Noah in that regard.  Yes, early in his career Anderson flopped all the time and has since continued to carry that tag, but if you actually take time and watch his game, his defense has truly become impressive.  there's a reason why he was in the running for defensive player of the year this past season.

Hinrich had his moments in that series, but he didn't exactly put up THAT great of numbers... Rose did.  The Cavaliers defense needs to be improved on the wings.  If your wings can guard that allows your big defenders to be in better position as well and pick up their defense.  Jamison sucks on D... look at what KG did to him, lol.

CP3 isn't coming to CLE, though I'd LOVE it is an understatement, lol.

Well said, and that's basically my railing-point against Noah... he's good, but a guy like Varejao is going to provide a similar game... rebounding, disrupting, good defense, and being tall.  I suppose the difference is still that Noah can be a starting 5, and Varejao hasn't had to do that yet.   But they're not miles off. 

Basically, I just think the "Bulls are much better defensively" thing is BS.  The Cavs allowed 4 fewer points per game last year  (95-99).  And if Mike Brown doesn't crap his pants in the Boston series and start sitting the players that gave him an advantage over Boston (Varejao and Hickson: the 'be less old and more athletic' lineup, rather than the Shaq-centric frontcourt that allowed Rondo run up and down AND the offense to stagnate) they still would have come out of that series.  Or it would have been much closer. 

In the end, I still do agree that Chicago is the place where the sole addition of LeBron makes them instant contenders.  Chicago + LeBron is better than Cleveland + LeBron.  But its because of Derrick Rose, by FAR the best player he would have played with, not Joakim Noah, Brad Miller, and Taj Gibson. 

If you hadn't realized, I hate Shaq.  He's been team cancer ever since Phoenix.  He still puts up decent numbers but he can hardly jog the floor, can't score outside of 2 feet, and can't defend either end of a pick and roll. 

[HoopsMalone]

Rose is the difference, but the Bulls front line is adequate to defend some of the other top players in the league.  Noah is a lot better than Anderson, and with a big athletic player like James joining the Bulls, their defense would be much improved. 

[GoldenWarrior]

Rose is the difference, but the Bulls front line is adequate to defend some of the other top players in the league.  Noah is a lot better than Anderson, and with a big athletic player like James joining the Bulls, their defense would be much improved. 

"rose is the difference" +1 - he makes CHI a better basketball option for LBJ than CLE

"Noah is a lot better than Anderson" -1 - I just disagree.  If you actually look at them both, it's not that drastic of a difference really at all

"By adding LBJ, CHI's defense would be much improved" Of course, adding him to anyone's roster instantly improves their defense.

[HoopsMalone]

Noah Playoffs:  14.8 pts 13 Rebs
Varejao Playoffs:  5.7 pts 6.5 rebs
*note this is partly head to head

Noah plays about 10 mins more granted.

Noah Regular Season:  10.7 pts 11.0 rebs
Varejao Regular Season:  8.6 pts 7.6 rebs

Varejao- 28 years old, 5 more years of consistency, but probably hit his ceiling
Noah- 25 years old, has not hit his ceiling.  Plenty of productive years ahead.

Varejao might get more minutes without Shaq, but he has had time to show what he has.  Noah is better statistically and is much, much more likely to improve based on his age and the signs he has showed in the playoffs. 

Maybe it depends how you define "a lot better" when comparing Noah and Varejao, but there is a lot more to be excited about with Noah on the court.  Plus he will get in Lebron's face if Lebron starts dancing when his team wins regular season games.  Lebron might need a teammate like that.  Bill Cartwright did that for MJ early on. 

[HoopsMalone]

Don't get me wrong, Varejao is a nice player.  He can be part of a title winning front line.  But Noah is an upgrade.  You don't go to Chicago just because of Noah, but Noah is better than anything Cleveland has.  And Noah has an upside and is a proven winner which means something.

[GoldenWarrior]

Noah Playoffs:  14.8 pts 13 Rebs
Varejao Playoffs:  5.7 pts 6.5 rebs
*note this is partly head to head

Noah plays about 10 mins more granted.

Noah Regular Season:  10.7 pts 11.0 rebs
Varejao Regular Season:  8.6 pts 7.6 rebs

Varejao- 28 years old, 5 more years of consistency, but probably hit his ceiling
Noah- 25 years old, has not hit his ceiling.  Plenty of productive years ahead.

Varejao might get more minutes without Shaq, but he has had time to show what he has.  Noah is better statistically and is much, much more likely to improve based on his age and the signs he has showed in the playoffs. 

Maybe it depends how you define "a lot better" when comparing Noah and Varejao, but there is a lot more to be excited about with Noah on the court.  Plus he will get in Lebron's face if Lebron starts dancing when his team wins regular season games.  Lebron might need a teammate like that.  Bill Cartwright did that for MJ early on. 

I do think it comes down to how you're defining "a lot better" because though stats do help, they never tell the whole story of anything and especially in this discussion where both guys are so much more valuable than either of their stats say.

Yes, Noah is younger therefore should have a higher ceiling at this point and onward, but I also think a lot of people are simply looking at his 5 games in the playoffs and how well he performed and saying that this kid is all of a sudden destined to be a top 5 big man... I'm not buying it from one series I guess.  I wanna see it over a longer period of time and if he does live up to it, then that's awesome and he deserves it.  By the sounds of it he works his a$$ off all the time in practice and off season, but so does AV.

Sticking with stats though, their career numbers are one point and one rebound off of one another and a scary similarity in mpg...

Noah:  8ppg, 8rpg, 24.8mpg
Varejou:  7ppg, 7rpg, 24.1mpg

This is why I don't think that the difference is really all that great between the two, or that one is "a lot better" than the other...

[HoopsMalone]

Varejao first 3 seasons:  5.4 points 5.46 rebs

Noah has shown up big in two playoff series in his first three years as well.  People are looking at the Boston series and the Cleveland series with Noah.  Noah also has never had big Lebron next to him that other teams have had to box out.  Varejao is ok, but Noah has a lot more upside.  No is not a top 5 big man because he will never score 20 ppg.  He could lead the league in rebounding, however, and could bring a Dennis Rodman presence.  Maybe he won't, but Chicago is a better team that has someone like that.  He is definately better than Varejao by stats, potential, history of winning (2 NCAA titles), and a high percentage of big games in the playoffs compared to how many he has played.

[GoldenWarrior]

Varejao first 3 seasons:  5.4 points 5.46 rebs

Noah has shown up big in two playoff series in his first three years as well.  People are looking at the Boston series and the Cleveland series with Noah.  Noah also has never had big Lebron next to him that other teams have had to box out.  Varejao is ok, but Noah has a lot more upside.  No is not a top 5 big man because he will never score 20 ppg.  He could lead the league in rebounding, however, and could bring a Dennis Rodman presence.  Maybe he won't, but Chicago is a better team that has someone like that.  He is definately better than Varejao by stats, potential, history of winning (2 NCAA titles), and a high percentage of big games in the playoffs compared to how many he has played.

yeah, I see what you're saying and tend to agree that yes, Noah is better than Varejou, I just don't think it's that big of an improvement or difference between the two.  Noah had a big body next to him in Miller in terms of rebounding and as far as I'm concerned nobody is gonna lead the league in rebounding aside from D Howard for the next 5 seasons easy, lol.  That guys is just a beast on the boards, but yes Noah has some nice assets and is better than Anderson.

Another question for you though:  Would u trade Noah in a sign and trade for Bosh??

[HoopsMalone]

Another question for you though:  Would u trade Noah in a sign and trade for Bosh??

Not a chance.  I'd take Noah at 1/5 of Bosh's salary and maybe 60% of Bosh's production.  I'm not huge on Bosh for a max deal.  We don't need a guy who finger rolls the ball in and spends half of his day on twitter.  I'm not big on signing a max deal guy who might get destroyed by Pau Gasol.  Bosh is just ok on defense.  I could be wrong on Bosh.  We will see.

I would trade for Bosh at $12ish million, but not a max deal.  No way.  I'd rather try to get Boozer for less than pay Bosh all that money.

You might be right about Howard.  He was around 13 boards/game whereas Noah was at 11 boards/game.  Both have room to improve, but are both going to be top 5 probably. 

This summer, though, some teams might look back and say the best move was no move.  A lot of these guys are not worth it in my opinion. 

[GoldenWarrior]

Not a chance.  I'd take Noah at 1/5 of Bosh's salary and maybe 60% of Bosh's production.  I'm not huge on Bosh for a max deal.  We don't need a guy who finger rolls the ball in and spends half of his day on twitter.  I'm not big on signing a max deal guy who might get destroyed by Pau Gasol.  Bosh is just ok on defense.  I could be wrong on Bosh.  We will see.

I would trade for Bosh at $12ish million, but not a max deal.  No way.  I'd rather try to get Boozer for less than pay Bosh all that money.

You might be right about Howard.  He was around 13 boards/game whereas Noah was at 11 boards/game.  Both have room to improve, but are both going to be top 5 probably. 

This summer, though, some teams might look back and say the best move was no move.  A lot of these guys are not worth it in my opinion. 

If I'm the Bulls I would certainly trade Noah for Bosh.  Yes, financially Bosh is more expensive, but given the landscape of the NBA you want to get a guy like Bosh (great offensive game, solid defender (no, not as good as Noah) and good locker room guy as well).  Noah's price is going to end up costing the Bulls, it's just a matter of time, so which would you rather... push now and truly provide someone for D Rose to have alongside with a strong all around game or provide a good defender and rebounder for him to play with?  I'll take the all around game any day in that circumstance and as you can tell I'm not quite as high on Noah yet as apparently most Chicago fan is.

I agree though, Boozer could be viewed as a better get for the price, though he's going to cost a pretty penny as well (wouldn't be surprised if it's a max for him in the end), even more than he deserves... especially if Gay & Johnson are getting max already!!  I would also question the size between a front line of Noah & Boozer... both undersized, but play bigger than they are.  I think they both need a true big behind them though to be successful.

Yes, guys are going to be grossly over paid and teams are going to shoot themselves down the road for this off season... see my post in the "We start the max deals with..." thread

[HoopsMalone]

Bosh is definitely something to consider and I see your point.  Noah might end up being a 10-14 million dollar player, so why not just get Bosh now.  Especially since Bosh is so young.  I personally would rather keep Noah until his contract is up and then pay him less than you would be on the hook for with Bosh. 

Even if the Bulls do not get a big name this summer, $30 million is a ton of money.  They can put a lot pieces around Rose and wait until the right move comes. 

If they could sign Bosh straight up, then I would say just make an irrational move and sign the guy for a little more than he is worth.  Then you have Bosh and Noah starting with Taj Gibson off the bench.  You then have about $13 million left to sign Brad Miller back, get a back up PG and two shooters to split time at the 2. 

Bosh and Rose could be nasty in a pick and roll.  But I would not want to give up Noah for Bosh at a max.  Noah would make up for Bosh's at times soft play and Bosh would make up for Noah's lack of skill offensively.

[HoopsMalone]

GoldenWarrior,  without knowing if James would come back, would you trade Hickson, Varejao, Mo Williams, Delante West, and some picks for CP3 and Emeka Okafur (and Emeka's big contract)? 

I think it is probably an all right thing for 3 reasons:
1- It increases your chances of getting James to come back exponentially since James and him are buds and Byron Scott already coached Paul.

2- I don't think Mo Williams and Varejao are that good anyway.  It would only be really tough to lose Hickson's potential.

3- At some point, the Cavs are going to have to slow down Rondo, Wade, Rose, and Jameer Nelson to get out of the east.  Probably 2 every year.  Paul gives you that guy.

This would tie up the Cavs with James and Paul's big contracts and a big one with Okafur.  But you really have to do something to keep James, so it might be worth it.

[GoldenWarrior]

GoldenWarrior,  without knowing if James would come back, would you trade Hickson, Varejao, Mo Williams, Delante West, and some picks for CP3 and Emeka Okafur (and Emeka's big contract)? 

I think it is probably an all right thing for 3 reasons:
1- It increases your chances of getting James to come back exponentially since James and him are buds and Byron Scott already coached Paul.

2- I don't think Mo Williams and Varejao are that good anyway.  It would only be really tough to lose Hickson's potential.

3- At some point, the Cavs are going to have to slow down Rondo, Wade, Rose, and Jameer Nelson to get out of the east.  Probably 2 every year.  Paul gives you that guy.

This would tie up the Cavs with James and Paul's big contracts and a big one with Okafur.  But you really have to do something to keep James, so it might be worth it.

Ok, so hypothetically speaking (because the contracts still don't matchup correctly to actually do)... I would certainly be tempted.  As you said, Cleveland will have to do something eventually, even if LBJ resigns or doesn't, we've gotta do something at PG in particular... CP3 clearly fills that by being one of the top4 PGs prolly in the league right now even after injury.  I would be tempted to actually see if NO would be willing to part with Collison at PG and we'll take Emeka's terrible contract too... I think Collison has the skills necessary to continue to progress in this league for years to come.  But by doing this, I would want to keep Varejou (LBJ loves him and as u know I like (not love) him) and I'd try to hold onto Delonte's desirable contract for another trade or to keep him actually (i like his game despite the off the court issues).  My trade would be:

Cavs get:  Emeka and Collison
Hornets get:  JJ Hickson, Mo Williams

A final answer on your proposed trade though:  Yes, I'd do that trade.  We've got to do soemthign to get another bonified star to CLE alongside LBJ and this certainly fits the bill.  I hate to lose some of the "glue" in Anderson or potential in JJ, but to get something you've got to give something...

[HoopsMalone]

Cavs get:  Emeka and Collison
Hornets get:  JJ Hickson, Mo Williams

Interesting.  Hornets are desperate to get rid of Emeka and might just do that. 

[GoldenWarrior]

Interesting.  Hornets are desperate to get rid of Emeka and might just do that. 

That's kinda what I was banking on, but would that be enough to keep LeBron in Cleveland?  CP3 gaurantees LBJ stays, Collison... still a young question mark...

I would also be interested in taking a look at James Harden in OKC. My guess is he hasn't crossed anyone's mind lately, but I really like his game and see it developing well into the NBA (started slow last season, but showed nice improvements towards the end).  Maybe Cavs could offer a few veterans to help lead that team along with all of their young talent and the Cavs get another young big to grow alongside LBJ... and allows Hickson to be expendable in trades.

Cavs get:  James Harden and a bad Nick Collison contract (though Cavs would want a new contract for Harden in place prior to trade - Collison's contract is expiring actually too, so idk if OKC would wanna give that up necessarily)
OKC gets:  Delonte West (desired contract, expiring and non-gauranteed) and JJ Hickson

What r some more of your thoughts?  I love this in the NBA, could be historic, but for all intense of purposes... hope LeBron just stays home and it's relatively quiet 

[HoopsMalone]

What r some more of your thoughts?  I love this in the NBA, could be historic, but for all intense of purposes... hope LeBron just stays home and it's relatively quiet 

I think your suggestions are James' best ways to win in Cleveland.  That is, get young players and build a team up with him.  The only problem is that he needs to commit to 6 seasons and then he is looking at winning is first in 2 or 3 years rather than next year. Picking up Shaq and Jamison is not the answer in my opinion.  The Cavs have a decent core there, but could use Hickson developing and a better young guard.  They can contend in 2 years.

Does James try to win in Chicago next year or wait a few years?  I think he could be talked into staying and if I was betting now I would guess he would stay.  Chicago needs to do one more thing (get Boozer to commit) before the meeting tomorrow.

If I was the Bulls, I would try to pry Mello out of Denver.  Deng could replace him at half price and half production plus a bunch of picks.  Probably would be hard to pull off without losing Noah and Gibson with Deng though.

[shiloh26]

If I was the Bulls, I would try to pry Mello out of Denver.  Deng could replace him at half price and half production plus a bunch of picks.  Probably would be hard to pull off without losing Noah and Gibson with Deng though.

Yeah, I don't see that happening.  Why clear all that cap space to make a trade that will cost a lot of talent?  They've set their course to sign a big free agent or two, and it's what they'll live or die by. 

[HoopsMalone]

Yeah, I don't see that happening.  Why clear all that cap space to make a trade that will cost a lot of talent?  They've set their course to sign a big free agent or two, and it's what they'll live or die by. 

I agree.  Just thinking out loud.  Though if the Nuggets want to get rid of Carmello, I think the Bulls should get into that race.

The Bulls are in a uniquely good situation.  Even if they strike out on the big guys who are left, they are still in decent shape.  They already struck lightning when they got Rose.  They don't need to strike lightning twice to be a contender.  With the roster they have now, they can use $30 million to add six players who average $5 million each to go with Gibson, Noah, Rose, Deng, and  22 year old first round pick James Johnson.   

I think the Bulls need one more big time player, but 6 above above average role players would give the Bulls a nice rotation.  Then, it depends on how good Rose really is.

Adding David Lee for $12 million and then 4 other solid players would be a good offseason in any year but this one.  Im keeping that in perspective...

[GoldenWarrior]

I think anyone who can should get into discussion to at least check out about the Melo situation in Denver... you are foolish not to at least pick up the phone and see what it would take.

HoopsMalone:  I agree, I think if LeBron would sign a six year deal and allow the Cavs two seasons to actually build a team fit to win in a few years instead of the proverbial "win it this year" mentality, we could be great for a long time (provided they actually know how to build a champion that is, lol).

I do agree though, Chicago is the only team it seems that can completely strike out on the big dogs of this free agency and still contend (not for a title... at least for now) in the playoffs.  A Boozer or David Lee at a reasonable contract would be nice pick ups for them too, but I have a feeling that they are going to be getting big offers from others who strike out, at which case CHI may step up and offer too much for them.

[HoopsMalone]

I do agree though, Chicago is the only team it seems that can completely strike out on the big dogs of this free agency and still contend (not for a title... at least for now) in the playoffs.  A Boozer or David Lee at a reasonable contract would be nice pick ups for them too, but I have a feeling that they are going to be getting big offers from others who strike out, at which case CHI may step up and offer too much for them.

I agree and that worries me about Lee and Boozer.  Neither is an imposing defender but creates pick and roll opportunities with Rose which could be lethal.  Maybe the Bulls can go up to $14 million, otherwise they should develop the pieces they have and add depth. 

I also am not opposed to that Gortat and Pietrus to Chicago and Deng to Orlando trade.  Deng is a tough contract to have, but the Magic really missed Hedo this year.  Gortat is a nice defensive center and Pietrus can shoot.  Also, it is much easier to trade Pietrus' 2 years at around $5 million as opposed to Deng's 4 years $50ish million he has left.  If the Bulls have to, they start Pietrus at the 3 and develop the guy they picked last year at SF.  Then they also have a nice inside defensive lineup with 26 year old Gortat, 25 year old Noah, and 25 year old Gibson.  All three have reasonable contracts and I think that Gortat could be effective if he wasn't behind Howard all the time.  Gortat only gets 12 mins/game and does a nice job.  Plus, splitting Deng's $10 million among 2 players is better than they have I think.  The only thing it does is stack a conference rival, but the Bulls need to move that contract in my opinion.

[GoldenWarrior]

I agree and that worries me about Lee and Boozer.  Neither is an imposing defender but creates pick and roll opportunities with Rose which could be lethal.  Maybe the Bulls can go up to $14 million, otherwise they should develop the pieces they have and add depth. 

I also am not opposed to that Gortat and Pietrus to Chicago and Deng to Orlando trade.  Deng is a tough contract to have, but the Magic really missed Hedo this year.  Gortat is a nice defensive center and Pietrus can shoot.  Also, it is much easier to trade Pietrus' 2 years at around $5 million as opposed to Deng's 4 years $50ish million he has left.  If the Bulls have to, they start Pietrus at the 3 and develop the guy they picked last year at SF.  Then they also have a nice inside defensive lineup with 26 year old Gortat, 25 year old Noah, and 25 year old Gibson.  All three have reasonable contracts and I think that Gortat could be effective if he wasn't behind Howard all the time.  Gortat only gets 12 mins/game and does a nice job.  Plus, splitting Deng's $10 million among 2 players is better than they have I think.  The only thing it does is stack a conference rival, but the Bulls need to move that contract in my opinion.

I'd be REALLY surprised if the Magic did this trade.  Deng is nice, but not that good of a player, especially for his contract.  Gortat and Pietrus have been instrumental in the success of ORL and I don't think they'd part with both of them for Deng.  Would be a GREAT trade for CHI though if it went through!

Boozer and Lee would work nicely in the pick n roll with Rose, but as I said, I think it all comes down to the price you have to pay in order to get either of them, which I tend to think will be too much.

I'm seeing reports that Cavs are trying to figure out a sign and trade for either Bosh or Amar'e... it'd be GREAT to get Bosh, not so high on Amar'e though... should be an interesting weekend though to say the least!!

[RawdogDX]

Would the bulls be title contenders with Boozer and Korver? 
They would be good...

I'm starting to get real worried.  At least we'd save enough to make keep the band together when noah and james are up.

[HoopsMalone]

Would the bulls be title contenders with Boozer and Korver? 
They would be good...

I'm starting to get real worried.  At least we'd save enough to make keep the band together when noah and james are up.

I am worried too for the Bulls.  Boozer and Korver make Bulls 2nd or 3rd round next year.  Rose and Noah will improve, Korver replaces most of Hinrich and Boozer at pick and roll potential.  I just don't see it, but ya, the Bulls can add a few nice pieces around them still.  The Bulls would end up better for sure. 

If the Bulls could trade Deng (leaving them about $40 million), then adding Boozer at the 4 and 2 shooters like Korver and/or maybe Reddick is a great spot for James or Wade.  THAT is a title contender and the Bulls could afford those four players with Boozer taking what he is worh ($13 million?).  Maybe a favorite if they spend the midlevel on a big man like Brad Miller.

Give me this:

PG- Rose
SG-Korver
SF- James
PF- Boozer
C-Noah

Bench- Taj, Brad Miller, a cheaper shooter, James Johnson

[RawdogDX]

Miller seems to be dying out there.  I don't want to spend a mid level on him which I heard the celtics are looking at doing.

[NavinRJohnson]

Certainly starting to look more and more like the Bulls, Knicks and Nets are going to end up on the outside looking in where James, Wade and Bosh are concerned, and are going to end up overpaying for guys like Boozer, Miller, etc., when they get desperate and find themselves competing with one another for those second tier guys.

[GoldenWarrior]

I think the Bulls should certainly pursue Boozer and Korver... Korver is a solid shooter, but his defense is questionable at best and his overall lack of athleticism.  Boozer is a nice piece, but it all depends on his price tag (not a MAX guy).

I'm hoping the Cavs could somehow pull off something here, maybe even the back stabber (Boozer) in a sign and trade or something, but not exactly holding my breathe thankfully

[HoopsMalone]

Bulls should add Boozer, Korver, Anthony Morrow (lead NBA in 3 pt %, 24 years old), Brad Miller, and then sit on some money and see what opportunities present itself at the trade deadline.

[damuts222]

 As much as I hated Reddick in college, as a Bulls fan I think he is a better option than Korver. He has really come on strong in the last year or so.

[GoldenWarrior]

As much as I hated Reddick in college, as a Bulls fan I think he is a better option than Korver. He has really come on strong in the last year or so.

+1 all the way around