Why Not Privatize UW?

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

So this is related to nothing in particular, but is something I've been thinking casually about this a little bit: why doesn't Wisconsin privatize UW?

Here's my rough analysis:

1) Scott Walker and fiscally conservative voters should like this because it reduces the size of state government and cost of managing an educational institution.

2) UW should like this because it gives them the ability to operate the university with less dependence on whether a democrat or republican is governor

Some implications:
- UW's endowment is ~$2B last I checked, as well as a large alumni base that donates readily to the university.
- UW is reportedly having issues currently attracting talented staff, as there is uncertainty as to the ability to protect tenure track positions. They can now choose their own destiny.
- UW's tuition would rise
- UW could still accept state funding just as MU does for specific programs and research projects
- Finally, UW could conduct athletic coaching searches like a big boy school and not like they're posting for a new librarian.

I get that it was important for the taxpayers to establish and fund public universities like UW, etc. However, I believe that at this point they should be "spun off" to operate independently.

Curious on what the Scoop community think, and what's the best argument against this?

[brandx]

If you privatize, education becomes secondary to the bottom line.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

If you privatize, education becomes secondary to the bottom line.

That doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying Marquette's educational quality suffers by being private? How about Harvard, Stanford and UofC?

Are you saying the best educational institutions are public universities?

[Pakuni]

That doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying Marquette's educational quality suffers by being private? How about Harvard, Stanford and UofC?

Are you saying the best educational institutions are public universities?

Who would take on such an enterprise?

[brandx]

That doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying Marquette's educational quality suffers by being private? How about Harvard, Stanford and UofC?

Are you saying the best educational institutions are public universities?

It depends on the method of privatization.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

It depends on the method of privatization.

Spin off UW as its own entity; a non-profit. As in: see what MU is? Do that but not religious based.

[GGGG]

Few things:

-The State of Wisconsin exerts more control over the UW System than most public universities.  System officials would love to have more independence from the State.

-Politicians don't want to give the UW System more independence.  They have the authority to set in-state tuition in Wisconsin.  That is rare.  They have a political interest in keeping tuition low.  The System is also a convenient bogeyman when it needs to be.  By both sides of the political aisle.   

-The State's Department of Administration gets a great deal of its funding through the management of building and renovation projects on behalf of the UW System.  They don't want the System to take that over for budgetary reasons.  No matter which side has been governor, talks about more independence from the State have gotten nowhere largely based on this issue.

So while Scott Walker has talked about spinning UW off into its own authority (quasi-public entity), it has gone nowhere because both Ds and Rs in the legislature don't want it.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Few things:

-The State of Wisconsin exerts more control over the UW System than most public universities.  System officials would love to have more independence from the State.

-Politicians don't want to give the UW System more independence.  They have the authority to set in-state tuition in Wisconsin.  That is rare.  They have a political interest in keeping tuition low.  The System is also a convenient bogeyman when it needs to be.  By both sides of the political aisle.   

-The State's Department of Administration gets a great deal of its funding through the management of building and renovation projects on behalf of the UW System.  They don't want the System to take that over for budgetary reasons.  No matter which side has been governor, talks about more independence from the State have gotten nowhere largely based on this issue.

So while Scott Walker has talked about spinning UW off into its own authority (quasi-public entity), it has gone nowhere because both Ds and Rs in the legislature don't want it.

Thanks for the reply. Still surprise we haven't seen this at SOME state flagship universities.

[GGGG]

Thanks for the reply. Still surprise we haven't seen this at SOME state flagship universities.

You have kind of.  There are degrees of control.  For instance, the University of Michigan receives some tax revenue in exchange for a discount on in state tuition, but the Board of Regents runs the place, including setting tuition, budget, compensation, etc.

Wisconsin is different because tution is set within the state budget and its state allocations are specified to go toward specific purposes.  The state budget also dictates items like raises and salary levels. 

And there are some states that exert even more control over their public universities than Wisconsin does.

[#UnleashSean]

Besides from the horrible budget cuts, the UW system is one of the best in the nation. The whole 2 year school option with guaranteed transfer helped my poor ass. Plus the whole in state tuition and guaranteed transfer with Minnesota is awesome. Privatizing the Madison campus would really put a dent in this.

[GooooMarquette]

I think there would be an initial hit in enrollment, and likely student quality.  People who are used to UW-Madison as a state school (with state school tuition) would wonder if the school can maintain its standards without state funding, and therefore have a hard time suddenly paying private school rates.  Maybe the school can keep up the standards without missing a beat...but if you're a student being asked to pay private school tuition, would you really want to take that chance?

[brandx]

First thing would be to kick 2/3 of the students out of school.

There are no private universities with approx. 45,000 students. BYU is probably the only one with 20,000+ students, but they have all of those cult $$$$ behind it.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

First thing would be to kick 2/3 of the students out of school.

There are no private universities with approx. 45,000 students. BYU is probably the only one with 20,000+ students, but they have all of those cult $$$$ behind it.

There's gotta be way more with 20k+ students. I can think of 3 others off the top of my head. Harvard, Northwestern and Stanford.

[mikekinsellaMVP]

There's gotta be way more with 20k+ students. I can think of 3 others off the top of my head. Harvard, Northwestern and Stanford.

And don't forget everyone's favorite Big East doormat!

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I think there would be an initial hit in enrollment, and likely student quality.  People who are used to UW-Madison as a state school (with state school tuition) would wonder if the school can maintain its standards without state funding, and therefore have a hard time suddenly paying private school rates.  Maybe the school can keep up the standards without missing a beat...but if you're a student being asked to pay private school tuition, would you really want to take that chance?

I disagree with the premise that moving to non-state-funded would equal a drop in quality. The best universities are private. Schools like UW have the ability to raise money and have decent endowments.

The pricing could change to incentivize the brightest to attend, not just the local. Quite a few of my MU classmates (myself included) paid roughly state tuition because of merit based scholarships. No reason UW shouldn't be able to similarly price to attract students.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

First thing would be to kick 2/3 of the students out of school.

There are no private universities with approx. 45,000 students. BYU is probably the only one with 20,000+ students, but they have all of those cult $$$$ behind it.

I'm not sure I agree with that assumption that they would have to drop number of enrolled, but even if they did, why is that a bad thing?

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

First thing would be to kick 2/3 of the students out of school.

There are no private universities with approx. 45,000 students. BYU is probably the only one with 20,000+ students, but they have all of those cult $$$$ behind it.

NYU has 44,000 enrolled. Their endowment is similar to UW's, and their operating budget dwarfs Madison ($7.5B to $2.9B)

Seems they're able to generate funds to operate a good school independent of state control.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

You have kind of.  There are degrees of control.  For instance, the University of Michigan receives some tax revenue in exchange for a discount on in state tuition, but the Board of Regents runs the place, including setting tuition, budget, compensation, etc.

Wisconsin is different because tution is set within the state budget and its state allocations are specified to go toward specific purposes.  The state budget also dictates items like raises and salary levels. 

And there are some states that exert even more control over their public universities than Wisconsin does.

Agreed Michigan has structured itself better than UW for independence, however the board of regents are elected, political positions. The Alumni and donors don't get to pick their board/president/University direction without interference from the state

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Besides from the horrible budget cuts, the UW system is one of the best in the nation. The whole 2 year school option with guaranteed transfer helped my poor ass. Plus the whole in state tuition and guaranteed transfer with Minnesota is awesome. Privatizing the Madison campus would really put a dent in this.

I agree that's a good value, however I don't see how separating from the state would prevent UW from offering exactly what you described?

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

BTW just checked and only 17% of UW's revenue is generated by state tax dollars - https://www.vc.wisc.edu/documents/Budget-in-Brief.pdf

That seems like something that could easily be made up for by modifying the tuition mix. If the "Harvard of the Midwest" is only $44k per year, and their contemporaries (Harvard and Stanford) charge $60-65k, UW is a steal at the out-of-state rate.

The remainder of the balance could be made up by reducing the size of the incoming classes but would likely not have to be by much. 40k instead of 45k students isn't that significant of a difference.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I think there would be an initial hit in enrollment, and likely student quality.  People who are used to UW-Madison as a state school (with state school tuition) would wonder if the school can maintain its standards without state funding, and therefore have a hard time suddenly paying private school rates.  Maybe the school can keep up the standards without missing a beat...but if you're a student being asked to pay private school tuition, would you really want to take that chance?

By this logic, you're saying that the "secret sauce" to UW's success is the involvement of elected officials? Even though the faculty/staff and programs remain the same, the University is somehow less than if it receives that 17% from taxpayers rather than tuition?

[GooooMarquette]

By this logic, you're saying that the "secret sauce" to UW's success is the involvement of elected officials? Even though the faculty/staff and programs remain the same, the University is somehow less than if it receives that 17% from taxpayers rather than tuition?

You miss my point.  Initially, it has little to do with actual quality...and everything to do with perception.  One year, the full out of state cost of going to UW-Madison is $43,000.  In state, it's about $25,000.  The very next year, it goes up to $55,000-$60,000 (roughly full cost at top privates).  If you (or your kid) is a student looking at schools, the perception is that you're getting something that just last year cost $43,000/$25,000...but you're being asked to pay $55,000-$60,000 for it.  I think many students - especially Wisconsin and Minnesota (reciprocity) residents - are going to be reluctant to pay that sudden increase. 

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

You miss my point.  Initially, it has little to do with actual quality...and everything to do with perception.  One year, the full out of state cost of going to UW-Madison is $43,000.  In state, it's about $25,000.  The very next year, it goes up to $55,000-$60,000 (roughly full cost at top privates).  If you (or your kid) is a student looking at schools, the perception is that you're getting something that just last year cost $43,000/$25,000...but you're being asked to pay $55,000-$60,000 for it.  I think many students - especially Wisconsin and Minnesota (reciprocity) residents - are going to be reluctant to pay that sudden increase.

Ah I see. I don't disagree. IF you privatized UW, you'd want to ease into new pricing. There are plenty of ways to do this so as to not "shock" the market.

Of course, for a proper recommendation of exact pricing, you'd want to do a study on the willingness to pay, and price at or below that amount.

[GGGG]

Ah I see. I don't disagree. IF you privatized UW, you'd want to ease into new pricing. There are plenty of ways to do this so as to not "shock" the market.

Of course, for a proper recommendation of exact pricing, you'd want to do a study on the willingness to pay, and price at or below that amount.

The issue of course is that the UW System could never charge those prices and exist in its current form.  Wisconsin already lags behind its neighbors when it comes to % of adults with a college degree.  (Mostly because a lot of them leave the state.)

I think a reasonable trade off is to have the state give the System a "block grant" of money in order to keep tuition lower for in-state residents.  But that is never going to happen because politicians want oversight...or strings attached...depending on your perspective.

[Benny B]

Has any public university ever "gone private"?

On the surface, I would think more major public universities would want to simply for the autonomy, and I can think of several that would be better candidates than UW to make that happen (tOSU, Michigan, Purdue, Texas, TAMU, Cal/UCLA).  There's got to be a reason they haven't (or can't), and it may have less to do with public funding/financing than one would think.