JJJ #2 on SportsCenter Top 10

[GGGG]

I personally don't feel Vander was a better defender as a sophomore. 

Laughable.

[Bricky]

How many times did you rewind that dunk?  Over/under set at four.

[NersEllenson]

Laughable.

I know you consistently applaud players that never have any production in the box score ultimately, but please, let's hear your explanation?  Let me guess, you are going to try to say Vander was a better on-ball defender?  Are we playing man to man this year?

Here they are side by side.  JJJ rebounds at a higher rate, steals at a higher rate, blocks shots at a higher rate.

I'm sure you have a bias for Vander being from the Madison area and all, but JJJ and Vander are so similar as players its actually pretty crazy how they stack up side by side.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=vander-blue&i=1&p1=3-jajuan-johnson&vander-blue=2011-2012

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yeah like I've said I would LOVE for that to be true because his athleticism(that we know he has) is incredible. So the complete year off and being with a new team could do wonders for him for sure.

I just don't like people raging our current youngsters we have now but then thinking Wally(who they have probably never seen play in a real game, which I have many times) will come in and jack all there minutes. And I think JJJ while he clearly has a lot of issues is underrated on here.

If(and its a big if right now) he can find some sort of consistent outside shot I think he becomes real good. It would cut down on his forced TO's too because he won't have to feel like pushing it 1 on 4 is his only chance.

Right now though having seen Fr/So versions of both guys JJJ is far and away the better player. Hopefully next year we see that both have made huge jumps because if so...we will be damn good.

An outside shot would definitely be nice. I don't mind the turnovers as much as others. Like Ners, I see the value in an aggressive slasher and that comes at the cost of turnovers. My biggest issue with his game is his defense. I love the steals, but he goes for a steal practically every time the ball is near him. Too many times I have seen him lunge for a steal, only to miss and end up by the half court line. His man than takes the open shot or drives to the hoop. If he could learn to control his impulses on defense, picking his steal attempts wisely....or at least learn how to go for a steal without taking himself out of the defense, I think he could become a plus defender. He's got the length and the quickness for it.

[GooooMarquette]

Don't agree with Ners often, but I'd take JJJ's defense over Vander's soph defense.  I recall Buzz making a huge deal about it when Vander finally stepped in a took his first charge.

[GGGG]

Don't agree with Ners often, but I'd take JJJ's defense over Vander's soph defense.  I recall Buzz making a huge deal about it when Vander finally stepped in a took his first charge.

JJJ plays a wing in primarily a zone scheme.  In fact, he is one of the reasons that Wojo has had to resort to playing zone because his man defense skills are terrible.

Vander was playing in an almost entirely man scheme.  The only reason he played as a freshman was because of his defense.  While his offense improved as a sophomore, he was still a very good defender.  He didn't take many charges because he was guarding guys on the perimeter.

I have mentioned this before, but as a sophomore at UW, he at different parts of the game guarded Jordan Taylor, Mike Bruesewitz and Ben Brust - three completely different players - and did so very well. 

You think JJJ could do that now?  Cmon...

[NersEllenson]

JJJ plays a wing in primarily a zone scheme.  In fact, he is one of the reasons that Wojo has had to resort to playing zone because his man defense skills are terrible.

Vander was playing in an almost entirely man scheme.  The only reason he played as a freshman was because of his defense.  While his offense improved as a sophomore, he was still a very good defender.  He didn't take many charges because he was guarding guys on the perimeter.

I have mentioned this before, but as a sophomore at UW, he at different parts of the game guarded Jordan Taylor, Mike Bruesewitz and Ben Brust - three completely different players - and did so very well. 

You think JJJ could do that now?  Cmon...

Actually, Wojo switched to zone primarily after he saw guys blow by Carlino, Derrick, Duane, and to a lesser extent JJJ.  I do believe JJJ is as good of athlete as Vander and has the same aptitude/ability - but hasn't gotten as much game experience to play/prove his value as a defender.

But, I can go with you on your point - yet I just don't think it is laughable to say they aren't in the same area code defensively.  I mean at some point, how you rebound, steal and block shots has to matter, right?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Must have been a slow sports night last night. 

That dunk is pretty pedestrian.

[NersEllenson]

Must have been a slow sports night last night. 

That dunk is pretty pedestrian.

Not by MU standards. Rarely do we ever see one of our guards dunk in a half court set off the dribble - that goes back to the days of the Big 3.  Vander may have had a few his junior year in the half court off the bounce.

[Lennys Tap]

I personally don't feel Vander was a better defender as a sophomore.  For all the plaudits Vander's defense garnered, he wasn't an impact defender in the way of statistical metrics.

Vander played big minutes on a USA National team because of his on ball defense. He guarded the other team's top offensive perimeter player.

[reinko]

Vander played big minutes on a USA National team because of his on ball defense. He guarded the other team's top offensive perimeter player.

Vander never passed my eye test.  Plus, he had a way longer leash.

[4th and State]

Must have been a slow sports night last night. 

That dunk is pretty pedestrian.

I'm surprised it's as high as number 2, but in real time that dunk was impressive.  Over Obekpa to tie the game (I believe) and pretty much out of nowhere.

[GGGG]

Actually, Wojo switched to zone primarily after he saw guys blow by Carlino, Derrick, Duane, and to a lesser extent JJJ.  I do believe JJJ is as good of athlete as Vander and has the same aptitude/ability - but hasn't gotten as much game experience to play/prove his value as a defender.

But, I can go with you on your point - yet I just don't think it is laughable to say they aren't in the same area code defensively.  I mean at some point, how you rebound, steal and block shots has to matter, right?

Defense is a lot more than rebounds, steals and blocks.  Since you were such the player in high school, I thought you would know this.

[NersEllenson]

Defense is a lot more than rebounds, steals and blocks.  Since you were such the player in high school, I thought you would know this.

Considering you were watching even high school games from the bleachers - you should really refrain from being a smart ass.  

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'm surprised it's as high as number 2, but in real time that dunk was impressive.  Over Obekpa to tie the game (I believe) and pretty much out of nowhere.

It was nice and all, but Obepka was a half step late and never really challenged it.

Maybe I am just bitter that it was followed up by the next possession.

[Texas Western]

Here's the problem:  Going 1 on 3 is NOT always a BAD play in transition when you have the defenders on their heels.  JJJ is BEST in transition.  There are plenty of very gifted guys athletically, that can weave up court in an loosely defined 1-3 situation and score.  JJJ as evidenced by the dunk the play before, was feeling confident, has the athleticism - and quite frankly was that last move away from getting all the way to the rack and very likely scoring.

The challenge is - when you have that kind of ability - it's hard not to use it.  Now, when you don't have that kind of ability, you don't even think about it.  You may call it boneheaded, which it would be if you don't have the athleticism/skill to convert that on a frequent basis.  Ever watch D-Wade, Westbrook, hell even Jerel could go 1-3 in transition and score frequently.  I personally don't have issues with aggressive, effort, plays, being made by guys with the requisite skill set resulting in turnovers.

I agree with this analysis. I was happy to see JJJ get back in aggressive transition mode, it was he does well. I wish he had more opportunities to push transition like that. It didn't bother me that the play didn't work any more than someone missing a long 3 pointer. Good try reasonable probability of success , sometimes it doesn't work.

I think the desperation shot he made at the shot clock was running out also showed hustle and court awareness.

It seemed that overall, he was working hard to play within the parameters Wojo set. I think next game we will make a fee of the floaters and will get himself back up to the 21-22 minute level.

[jesmu84]

I agree with this analysis. I was happy to see JJJ get back in aggressive transition mode, it was he does well. I wish he had more opportunities to push transition like that. It didn't bother me that the play didn't work any more than someone missing a long 3 pointer. Good try reasonable probability of success , sometimes it doesn't work.

I think the desperation shot he made at the shot clock was running out also showed hustle and court awareness.

It seemed that overall, he was working hard to play within the parameters Wojo set. I think next game we will make a fee of the floaters and will get himself back up to the 21-22 minute level.

Any chance you can back up the statement that a 1 on 3 results has a "reasonable probability of success"?

[WarriorPA]

I love the JJ to Vander comparison. Good call. First, as sophomores, they can't hit shots. But as for the rest:

Vander was a better defender, but JJ is far and away a better finisher at the basket than Vander was as a sophomore. Vander was bad going to the basket on contested layups, he bricked them a ton, if my memory serves me correct. JJ has also been decent on floaters and his shots are usually at least close, whereas you could tell Vander's shots were off before they even left his hand.

Most of all, I love watching JJ in transition, its fun to watch a kid with the athleticism to make a great play go for it. He's growing, TOs will happen, but he shows promise and we can only hope he continues to improve this year and make a big jump for next year (and if its as a big a jump as Vander, we're in for a treat).

[NersEllenson]

Any chance you can back up the statement that a 1 on 3 results has a "reasonable probability of success"?

You wouldn't understand it, as you personally probably have never had any success doing it in a game of basketball.  It is not uncommon at all for athletically gifted guys to push off a missed shot, in transition, dribble through 3, unsettled defenders, and convert for a basket - at a higher rate of success than a typical 3 point shooting percentage at the college level.  Additionally, many times in pushing the action in that type of situation you will get fouled and go to the free throw line.

[jesmu84]

You wouldn't understand it, as you personally probably have never had any success doing it in a game of basketball.  It is not uncommon at all for athletically gifted guys to push off a missed shot, in transition, dribble through 3, unsettled defenders, and convert for a basket - at a higher rate of success than a typical 3 point shooting percentage at the college level.  Additionally, many times in pushing the action in that type of situation you will get fouled and go to the free throw line.

Just on the construct of TW's statements and sentence structure, he wasn't comparing the 3 point attempt to the 1 on 3. He was simply stating that a 1 on 3 has a "reasonable probability of success."

Sometimes you just sound nuts with some of your statements. Other times you're just an ass with statements like "You wouldn't understand it, as you personally probably have never had any success doing it in a game of basketball" and other things you've said to people. Try not being such a huge prick.

[NersEllenson]

Just on the construct of TW's statements and sentence structure, he wasn't comparing the 3 point attempt to the 1 on 3. He was simply stating that a 1 on 3 has a "reasonable probability of success."

Sometimes you just sound nuts with some of your statements. Other times you're just an ass with statements like "You wouldn't understand it, as you personally probably have never had any success doing it in a game of basketball" and other things you've said to people. Try not being such a huge prick.

Look you and others here have made plenty of prick statements. And quite frankly you and the others make some incredibly nuts statements.  I'm sorry your die hard devotion to our head coach last season, and now this season isn't translating into more wins to help validate and support your/their position(s).  Just as Mike McCarthy made plenty of mistakes in the Green Bay game against Seattle - just because a guy is paid millions doesn't mean he always gets it right.  Period.  Just like you nor I get things right at all times.  
  
Additionally, for context, a guy like Steve Wojo could never FATHOM going 1 on 3 in a situation like JJJ did last night - because he didn't have the athletic ability to do it, and pull it off with any success or regularity.  So, although Wojo played the game at a high level, it doesn't necessarily mean that he can understand what the thought process of JJJ may be in that situation.  But I give Wojo credit, as I don't think he pulled JJJ after that turnover - which showed some understanding of the player's ability as well as situation.

You have to let your athletically gifted guys, use their gifts - you cannot coach that out of them. Yes along the way, there will be frustrating turnovers at times, but there also will be brilliance as well.

[GGGG]

Additionally, for context, a guy like Steve Wojo could never FATHOM going 1 on 3 in a situation like JJJ did last night - because he didn't have the athletic ability to do it, and pull it off with any success or regularity.  So, although Wojo played the game at a high level, it doesn't necessarily mean that he can understand what the thought process of JJJ may be in that situation.  But I give Wojo credit, as I don't think he pulled JJJ after that turnover - which showed some understanding of the player's ability as well as situation.

You have to let your athletically gifted guys, use their gifts - you cannot coach that out of them. Yes along the way, there will be frustrating turnovers at times, but there also will be brilliance as well.

I have yet to see JJJ once pull off successfully going 1 on 3 much less with "regularity."  

[NersEllenson]

I have yet to see JJJ once pull off successfully going 1 on 3 much less with "regularity."  

I wouldn't expect you to.  You miss a lot of nuances in the games. 

[GGGG]

I wouldn't expect you to.  You miss a lot of nuances in the games. 

Have you seen him do it?  Because going "one on three" isn't exactly a nuance...it's pretty damn obvious.

[79Warrior]

Have you seen him do it?  Because going "one on three" isn't exactly a nuance...it's pretty damn obvious.

Sultan, please. There is no point.