Coaching shooting

[MUfan12]

The more I watch this team, the more I'm convinced none of the coaches know how to teach proper shooting technique.

1) Fitz jumps forward while leaning back, leading to a very slow and awkward release, and a lot of shots missed short.

2) Dominic flinging the ball up to the hoop... not stepping into his shot but using a two foot jumpstop and bringing the ball way too far back on his release.

3) Burke still shoots a sidewinding shot. The ball literally spins sideways. How is this still happening?

4) Cubillan has a hard time getting his shot off because he basically shoots a set-shot up there. Fundamentally, he still has the best shot on the team though.

I'm really curious as to what they work on as far as shooting goes... all the guys I mentioned, especially the first three, have major flaws in their shots and they go uncorrected.

[MU gimp ONE]

i am not saying that our shooting is good, because trust me our shooting has been awful this year.  however, i don't believe you have the credentials to go out there and coach shooting.  Coaches at this level have to deal with habits that have been built in these kids for 18 years before they came here.  Many successful players have "ugly" shots.  It all depends on how comfortable the player gets with it.  unless you teach the kid fundamental shooting from day one, ie novak and diener, you just have to try and advance their skills with the habits.  i play on a league team with a kid that shoots with the ball behind the side of his head, almost a two handed throw and he is above 50% from behind the arc, i try to convince him to enroll at MU all the time.  it's the ugliest shot ive seen, but it works really well for him and he gets it off quickly so it's never blocked. 

i think we are past the stage of coaching fundamentals on shooting and changing their shot.  we should be coaching repetition to get these kids comfortable with their shot.

[MilTown]

There is lots of discussion regarding shooting on the scout board. Murf had a good post about shooting(yes murf had a good post) over there. Here is a link.


http://mb21.scout.com/fmarquettefrm8.showMessage?topicID=15270.topic

[MUfan12]

gimp...I'm not saying I should be doing the coaching, not sure where you got that idea... but anyone who has coached basketball or played it can see these flaws. And reinforcing bad habits will not make anyone better.

[Warrior1969]

Hmmm just an idea?  Maybe the guy that gets paid 1.8 million and his staff should help with the shooting?

[MilTown]

I know the answer! I think I learned this at Doug Collins or some other basketball camp back in the day. BEEF

Balance
Eyesight
Elbow
Feet

I think the real issue is the type of shot we are taking (DJ at a standstill from 24 feet with a man in his face, McNeal floaters and off balance shots) vs. poor shooting technique. We need better looks for our percentages to increase. Granted, we don't have the best shooters, but with some work, I know we have the athletes that can get better.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Just like the golf swing, it doesn't matter how you're doing it, as long as it's repeatable (ask Jim Furyk).

I believe what Coach Crean was saying on his post-game show was that these guys are just plain not shooting enough. I believe we are allowed to practice 3 hours a day (correct me if I'm wrong). That's not all that much practice time. They've got to shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. Play HORSE. Play around the world. But shoot, for crying out loud. They're all good athletes...they should be able to improve. I know this, Matthews' release is too slow. McNeal's shot is too flat and DJ just had too much motion going on in his lower body. He needs to go straight up time after time. But with PRACTICE, all three of them could improve. Same thing with FTs. The problem DJ has with those is that they're out of his hand as soon as the ref hands him the ball. He should take a page from Ooze's book and TAKE HIS TIME!! CONCENTRATE!!!!

[MikeyT42]

I thought the F in BEEF was follow through?

well thats what i taught my 5th graders anyway... they bought it

[rocky_warrior]

I think you're right on with your comment PRN.  It makes me wonder, if TC has been spending a lot of practice time on shooting (because it's been so bad), not leaving a lot of time for team coaching.   Whereas, if people were willing to take a little instruction and then go off on their own time, he would have more time to get the team ready for games.

I donno, just speculating.

[State]

When I worked at the Old Gym, Novak would be there by himself for hours and hours practicing with a rebound machine after a day of team practice.  The guy continued to get better throughout his career and therefore 'taught' himself how to shoot better.  I know Novak is the exception to every rule at MU but he was a guy that took it upon himself to become a NBA player--he wasn't banking on the Media/Staff to make him a star.

James had the golden ticket too early this year and has completely shut down.  We've done pretty well in the past with guys who at one point had no chance to play pro but need to prove themselves daily (i.e. Wade, Novak and Diener.)

The thing that can't be 'taught' is heart!!

[MilTown]

I think you are right about the F in BEEF. It is follow through. I think feet is covered under the B for balance.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Isn't Sichting, a former NBA player, one of our coaches?  I think they know how to shoot and teach it.  Whether the players listen and execute it during the games is another story completely.

[MU gimp ONE]

gimp...I'm not saying I should be doing the coaching, not sure where you got that idea... but anyone who has coached basketball or played it can see these flaws. And reinforcing bad habits will not make anyone better.

i was just saying that as spectators i don't believe it gives us all the right to point the finger at missing fundamentals.  as it has been repeated in this thread, repetition is what is going to help these kids.  if you try to change a kids shot mid-season, you just wrote him off because it would take a decent amount of time for him to get comfortable with the change and in the end it may ruin his confidence enough to hurt him worse that adjusting his current shot.

Novak was the exception as he worked has a** off to get to the next level with shooting.  another one that didn't get the recognition for his work was Ammo. i know that is a bad name to bring up on a message board, but i used to see ammo working on his shot with a rebounding machine late into the night at the AL.  i remember after we lost in the NIT a couple years ago, he was at the AL that night shooting.  he used to get a ride by himself down to the BC hours before the game or much before the rest of the team so that he could just shoot.  It is going to be on these kids to make themselves better.  practices should be dedicated to working on offenses and defenses with some shooting drills.  it is going to take extra time from each kid on his shot to take it to the next level.

also, wasn't one of the E's in BEEF, elevation.  you know the extending of the arm and the releasing at the peak of your jump?  i had always just heard, balance, elbow, elevation, follow through.

[rocky_warrior]

BEEF     Balance Eyes Elbow Follow-through

I found it on the internet, so it must be right 

[Harrison]

balance ...feet little over shoulder - knees bent
eyes...on the rim
elbow....in
follow thru...

My kidnertgartner and 4th grader can repeat it.  Not sure our coaches could when you watch our free throws.

[MU gimp ONE]

im sure our coaches couldn't repeat it when we are shooting free throws, because they are usually praying to god just like the rest of the crowd.  ha.   

seriously though, we are horrible at the line.

[ChicosBailBonds]

balance ...feet little over shoulder - knees bent
eyes...on the rim
elbow....in
follow thru...

My kidnertgartner and 4th grader can repeat it.  Not sure our coaches could when you watch our free throws.

So if that's the case, then Pat Riley, Tex Winter, Phil Jackson, Dale Brown, etc, etc cannot teach either because Shaq's form is so bad.

Don't you think those coaches tried and tried and tried and tried to correct that form?  At the end of the day, the athlete has to do it.

[bma725]

balance ...feet little over shoulder - knees bent
eyes...on the rim
elbow....in
follow thru...

My kidnertgartner and 4th grader can repeat it.  Not sure our coaches could when you watch our free throws.

4th grade is about the age that stuff can be fixed.  By the time a player gets to college its too late.  Overhauling shooting form basically requires that the player be redshirted so they can focus on nothing else, and even then it doesn't always work.  Its better to just work on making the shots with the form you have than to start trying to change it.  Plenty of shooters with bad form have had great results both in college and in the NBA.

[CWSKeith]

4th grade is about the age that stuff can be fixed.  By the time a player gets to college its too late.  Overhauling shooting form basically requires that the player be redshirted so they can focus on nothing else, and even then it doesn't always work.

It's certainly not too late, but it takes a lot of hard work, dedication, and patience.  I know from personal experience.  It's not the same -- obviously we're talking about different levels of play here -- but I was forced to change my shot when I got to high school.  Since I could pick up a basketball, I always used my left hand (my thumb) to shoot the ball.  As a 5-foot-nothing guard coming into HS, I was going to have to switch the way I shot or else look at not playing basketball anymore. 

It took a good three months of practice before I could have any confidence whatsoever in even using my new shot technique in a game. 

Moral of the story, it takes hard, hard work to change your shot permanently.  This doesn't necessarily apply to free throws, where you could work out a "kink" in just one day at the gym -- but for shooting the ball from beyond 15-feet in a regular game setting, it takes lots of time in the gym.

I'm not particularly worried about DJs shot.  Did anyone honestly expect him to be a good/great shooter?  What I'm worried about is the fact that he hasn't been penetrating at all lately.  I'd like to be able to put a finger on it, but I can't, because he seems so content shooting the ball at the ark despite the fact that he can't do that.  Has he lost a step (ie quickness)?  Are defenses collapsing moreso than last year?  I'd like to think that it's B, but I haven't seen enough effort to penetrate and kick to assume it's B. 

I think I'm going to take a look at the Duke game, just to see what we did right in that game...