Moving on to the 19-20 Season

[muguru]

So you are rooting for a bad season so that you can say 'I told you so' to everyone who doesn't want Wojo fired.   Quite the character you are revealing.

Nope, not rooting for a worse season at all..,.but thanks for trying. I'm just saying IF it is worse, some people here are going to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying, that's fair, isn't it?? Hypocrisy exposed is never a bad thing, is it?? Chicos said i was being hypocritical about something in a different post, so..I can do it to him to.

[Marcus92]

The other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach.Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.

What makes you think Buzz would have stayed even with another AD or president? He left New Orleans. He left Marquette. He had everything he asked for at VT and still left. My guess is that he's gone from Texas A&M in another 5-6 years.

[muguru]

There's a huge problem with this position. Even after Buzz' bad year, no one was calling for him to get fired. Even in hindsight, I don't remember anyone saying we should have fired Buzz. Even Willie, who hated Buzz more than anyone, said he didn't want him fired.

So you comparing the "Buzz haters" to "Wojo supporters" doesn't really work. One, because the Wojo supporters wanted to keep Buzz even after his bad season and two, because I don't think anyone was mad at Buzz for "downward trajectory". They are mad because they subscribe to the belief that Buzz quit a year early and stuck around to keep a paycheck. Something I never bought into personally, I just think he was caught with his pants down when Blue went pro.

If next year is worse than last year that will be a red flag. Depending on how big of one, it may be time to move on from Wojo. But if we end up with a 6 seed next season instead of a 5 seed, then no, it won't be time to fire Wojo.

You're problem Guru is that you are too dualistic in your thinking. The coach is either doing great or should be fired. Except in extreme circumstances, a coach doesn't go from an ice cold seat to fired in a single season. That's why the concept of a hot seat exists. Wojo isn't on the hot seat yet. In fact, last season made his seat colder not warmer. He'd have to have a trainwreck of a season to deserve being fired next season.

And your problem TAMU is you are too accepting and too patient...maybe it's because you're young I don't know. What you consider a "trainwreck" of a season, I have a feeling is way different then what some(including me) would consider a trainwreck of a season. And to me, that all comes down to what one expects/wants from the MU program.

And I will ask you..why do you(especially) and others let Wojo so easily off the hook that after 5 years in, his level of success has not met Crean or Buzz's level?? You can't use the "look what he inherited compared to" argument..that was long enough ago and as I have been told "move on". If Crean and Buzz could establish those levels(Buzz in a much stronger conference it should be noted), why shouldn't Wojo have been able to?? And why should people find that acceptable??

[tower912]

Wojo has won 84 games the last 4 seasons.  Firing coaches averaging 21 wins a year is dumb.

Please list the coaches you think are gettable for Marquette.  Keeping in mind the UCLA, SJU and Michigan coach searches and results.

[TheTulsaWarrior]

I have a tendency to agree with most of Herman Cain's posts.  That said I'm also a believer in human development among a percentage of the population.  We're about to find that out definitively regarding Wojo.  He and his current staff are outstanding recruiters.  Game management and putting all the elements of a roster might best be described as a work in progress at best. 

As to our former head coach, I'll give him his due -- Marquette and VPI had some outstanding seasons.  He left a mess at Marquette.  How much you blame him or the former administration can be argued.  If Pope John Paul the First was running Marquette I doubt BW would have stayed.  It's not his nature.  What fans saw were some major maturity and emotional problems.  Some charitably might call it growing pains.  I would disagree.

BW taped into an under-recruited JUCO market that he knew well and hired a veteran JUCO coach and mentor that helped make the transition to being a legitimate D-1 head coach.  Wojo's initial mistake was failing to hire an experienced former head coach and a weak staff in general. (assistants didn't have the right balance of skills)  That lead to an inability to strike the right balance on the roster. (recruiting and skill development of players)  BW didn't do Wojo any favors, unlike Crean's hand off to BW.

[Jockey]

Nope, not rooting for a worse season at all..,.but thanks for trying. I'm just saying IF it is worse, some people here are going to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying, that's fair, isn't it?? Hypocrisy exposed is never a bad thing, is it?? Chicos said i was being hypocritical about something in a different post, so..I can do it to him to.

I’ve tried to stay out of the Wojo argument, but really dude, how are you going to hold people here accountable?

Stomp your feet? Come on Scoop and sound really, really mad? Go to their house and yell at them or beat them up? Or just make a nasty face in the mirror?

Stop embarrassing yourself.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And I will ask you..why do you(especially) and others let Wojo so easily off the hook that after 5 years in, his level of success has not met Crean or Buzz's level?? You can't use the "look what he inherited compared to" argument..that was long enough ago and as I have been told "move on". If Crean and Buzz could establish those levels(Buzz in a much stronger conference it should be noted), why shouldn't Wojo have been able to?? And why should people find that acceptable??

Because there's no hook that Wojo needs to be left off. The last five years have been good. Not as an end goal but as an important first step on the road to being elite. Like you told us:

How about this?? You have to walk before you can run, right??

After two years of a necessary rebuild, Wojo is starting to match Crean/Buzz level success. Last three years have been 10 seed, NIT, 5 seed. Buzz had seasons of 11 seed, 6 seed, and no postseason, worse than what Wojo has turned in. Crean had multiple NIT seasons, seasons of 8 and 6 seeds, worse than that what Crean turned in. Crean had one season better than Wojo and Buzz had two, all three were 3 seeds. I believe Wojo will get there too.

[Cheeks]

Nope, not rooting for a worse season at all..,.but thanks for trying. I'm just saying IF it is worse, some people here are going to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying, that's fair, isn't it?? Hypocrisy exposed is never a bad thing, is it?? Chicos said i was being hypocritical about something in a different post, so..I can do it to him to.

LOL.  Or you could just admit your hypocrisy, that was the other option.

[Cheeks]

And your problem TAMU is you are too accepting and too patient...maybe it's because you're young I don't know. What you consider a "trainwreck" of a season, I have a feeling is way different then what some(including me) would consider a trainwreck of a season. And to me, that all comes down to what one expects/wants from the MU program.

And I will ask you..why do you(especially) and others let Wojo so easily off the hook that after 5 years in, his level of success has not met Crean or Buzz's level?? You can't use the "look what he inherited compared to" argument..that was long enough ago and as I have been told "move on". If Crean and Buzz could establish those levels(Buzz in a much stronger conference it should be noted), why shouldn't Wojo have been able to?? And why should people find that acceptable??

Normally someone “seasoned” with experience has patience and doesn’t knee jerk at hiccups.  What happened with your progression?

[muguru]

LOL.  Or you could just admit your hypocrisy, that was the other option.

I will if you do at the end of the season if MU's trajectory is down, then you won't have your "upward trajectory" nonsense to fall back on, and will HAVE no choice to admit your hypocrisy. Eye for an eye. No excuses.

[PointWarrior]

+100. How ridiculous!

I’ve tried to stay out of the Wojo argument, but really dude, how are you going to hold people here accountable?

Stomp your feet? Come on Scoop and sound really, really mad? Go to their house and yell at them or beat them up? Or just make a nasty face in the mirror?

Stop embarrassing yourself.

[muguru]

Normally someone “seasoned” with experience has patience and doesn’t knee jerk at hiccups.  What happened with your progression?

You tell me...you won't let Buzz off the hook for his last season which was a total "hiccup" after he had taken the program to heights MU hadn't seen since Al. When Wojo gets to that level, I will absolutely give him a break for a "hiccup".

[Cheeks]

You tell me...you won't let Buzz off the hook for his last season which was a total "hiccup" after he had taken the program to heights MU hadn't seen since Al. When Wojo gets to that level, I will absolutely give him a break for a "hiccup".

Because he quit on the program and university during his tenure and got paid another year to fake it...Wojo hasn’t quit on either, let alone brought in some people that had no business representing this school EVER.

[Cheeks]

I will if you do at the end of the season if MU's trajectory is down, then you won't have your "upward trajectory" nonsense to fall back on, and will HAVE no choice to admit your hypocrisy. Eye for an eye. No excuses.

I said season trajectory which I was absolutely correct on.

Using your logic, if we go 16-15 for the year but win the last 6 games, make no tournament, that is better than this year despite making the NCAA tournament....because of end of season trajectory.  LOL, forgive me for not playing your ridiculous suggested comparison.

Have I said the end of the year was bad?  Yup...many times.

[muguru]

I said season trajectory which I was absolutely correct on.

Using your logic, if we go 16-15 for the year but win the last 6 games, make no tournament, that is better than this year despite making the NCAA tournament....because of end of season trajectory.  LOL, forgive me for not playing your ridiculous suggested comparison.

Have I said the end of the year was bad?  Yup...many times.

What the hell are you talking about?? There is ZERO scenario I would say 16-15 was better then this year. You claim Wojo is on an upward trajectory(season wise...I have never said that wasn't what you said)..okay you defend that argument to the fullest...but if they don't have as good of a season this year(record wise, seed etc), you will NO longer have that "upward trajectory argument" to fall back on. Will you be here at the end of the year with excuses for why(probably so), or will you accept that your upward trajectory nonsense isn't a usable argument anymore??

[PointWarrior]

Better question - if mu wins more games next year or has a better ncaa seed or wins an ncaa game, will muguru go away please?

What the hell are you talking about?? There is ZERO scenario I would say 16-15 was better then this year. You claim Wojo is on an upward trajectory(season wise...I have never said that wasn't what you said)..okay you defend that argument to the fullest...but if they don't have as good of a season this year(record wise, seed etc), you will NO longer have that "upward trajectory argument" to fall back on. Will you be here at the end of the year with excuses for why(probably so), or will you accept that your upward trajectory nonsense isn't a usable argument anymore??

[MU82]

Given that Crean coached a team to the Final Four and Buzz didn't, did Buzz really reach "heights MU hadn't seen since Al"? Is a Final Four not higher than an E8 or a S16?

I say the above as a fan who appreciates the good both of those coaches did for our program, as one who enjoyed most of both the Crean and Buzz eras, and as one who could accept if one claims that Buzz brought MU more consistent success than Crean did while acknowledging Buzz walked into a better situation than Crean did. But a higher height? That's simply not true.

Oh, and aren't we "Moving on" in this thread rather than constantly, annoyingly, desperately looking back over and over and over again? I guess not.

[Cheeks]

What the hell are you talking about?? There is ZERO scenario I would say 16-15 was better then this year. You claim Wojo is on an upward trajectory(season wise...I have never said that wasn't what you said)..okay you defend that argument to the fullest...but if they don't have as good of a season this year(record wise, seed etc), you will NO longer have that "upward trajectory argument" to fall back on. Will you be here at the end of the year with excuses for why(probably so), or will you accept that your upward trajectory nonsense isn't a usable argument anymore??

I have been using rating systems and many of them in a combined format so as not to be accused of any bias.  I published my work, sourced it, etc.  That is what I will continue to use.

[muguru]

Better question - if mu wins more games next year or has a better ncaa seed or wins an ncaa game, will muguru go away please?

Deal! IF chicos agrees to admit his upward trajectory argument is total bunk if the opposite happens. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for them to have a better year next year.

[muguru]

I have been using rating systems and many of them in a combined format so as not to be accused of any bias.  I published my work, sourced it, etc.  That is what I will continue to use.

Of course you will...stay gold chicos, stay gold...never admit when you're wrong. Next year the record could be worse, lower seed, etc, and ONE rating system would show they improved in a category and you would use that to say "the trajectory is upward", because that's what you do..You do you better than anyone I have ever seen. You must be so proud.

[Cheeks]

Deal! IF chicos agrees to admit his upward trajectory argument is total bunk if the opposite happens. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for them to have a better year next year.

What do I have to do with this at all?  You are a child.   The man asked you if MU fulfills that target will you go away....that was with you and him.  Man up.

Meanwhile, there is nothing wrong with my upward trajectory argument.....in fact the AD said the same thing when Wojo just got his extension.  I’ll bet that rubbed you raw.  LOL.

[wadesworld]

Fair enough. We’ll spread it out to all threads created.

[muguru]

What do I have to do with this at all?  You are a child.   The man asked you if MU fulfills that target will you go away....that was with you and him.  Man up.

Meanwhile, there is nothing wrong with my upward trajectory argument.....in fact the AD said the same thing when Wojo just got his extension.  I’ll bet that rubbed you raw.  LOL.

The AD is a small time thinker...what else did you expect him to say after he just gave Wojo an extension?? PR 101. There will be a lot wrong with your argument if this season isn't as good...I hope you acknowledge that when the time comes.

[Cheeks]

Of course you will...stay gold chicos, stay gold...never admit when you're wrong. Next year the record could be worse, lower seed, etc, and ONE rating system would show they improved in a category and you would use that to say "the trajectory is upward", because that's what you do..You do you better than anyone I have ever seen. You must be so proud.

The data is the data....the trend line crystal clear.  What is wrong about it?  Here is your chance to show how smart you are.  Do I need to publish the chart again for you?  I can give you the raw data and you can run the analysis yourself if you wish.

By the way, as I mentioned and your response clearly ignores, I average out all the rating systems which should help to normalize any bias.  I published each score.  I’m happy to throw the high and low out, still will show the same result.

[Cheeks]

The AD is a small time thinker...what else did you expect him to say after he just gave Wojo an extension?? PR 101. There will be a lot wrong with your argument if this season isn't as good...I hope you acknowledge that when the time comes.

He’s not a big time thinker like you I guess.  Or, he just made a factually correct statement using data on performance...same as I did.  Ahh,  it using data would be wrong. 

Tell me, is a 5 seed better than an 8 seed and a NIT seed?  We could use that instead....yes or no? 

This is great....please prove the data wrong.