Moving on to the 19-20 Season

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

How do we have a clue what the team chemistry is really like in the locker room? Look how bad it was last year and no one had any idea? I think Wojo is a good man who does things the right way but has
no style of coaching that he can call his own

Sure he does. Just as much as most coaches.

Seriously I get why he should be criticized, but “no style of coaching that he can call his own” is a little out there.

[Herman Cain]

The myth of success under Crean and Buzz is one of the bigger ones told on this board. All it took was one surprise defection to the NBA for the whole house of cards to come tumbling down. Wojo was tasked with rebuilding that foundation with something sturdier than cards.

So if we are successful, you would be one of the first to congratulate Wojo....but you said earlier that if we were successful it would be because the players ignored Wojo....and while you were congratulating Wojo you would be hoping that he gets picked off by another program so you could get rid of him....something doesn't compute here.

The program was in very strong shape . There was no house of cards. Buzz last year the team lost several close tough non conference games. Buzz had a very good pipeline of kids coming in Ahmed Hill, Marial  Shayok etc. 8 straight tournaments 2 s16 followed by an E8 is not a house of cards .

Wojo has definitely taken the program down. Right now we are somewhere close to parity with Creighton. If you are Creighton that is an acceptable level. McDermott is highly regarded out there and has a well oiled stable program going but it is not going to be a consistent factor in the national conversation . MU has the assets and tradition to consistently be in the national conversation and that is the standard Wojo should be held to.

The competitive landscape in The Big East is fierce. It is only going to get more difficult  as they bottom dweller programs have all improved. We need some dynamism to become top tier in the league.



Wojo depleted the program

[Galway Eagle]

The program was in very strong shape . There was no house of cards. Buzz last year the team lost several close tough non conference games. Buzz had a very good pipeline of kids coming in Ahmed Hill, Marial  Shayok etc. 8 straight tournaments 2 s16 followed by an E8 is not a house of cards .

Wojo has definitely taken the program down. Right now we are somewhere close to parity with Creighton. If you are Creighton that is an acceptable level. McDermott is highly regarded out there and has a well oiled stable program going but it is not going to be a consistent factor in the national conversation . MU has the assets and tradition to consistently be in the national conversation and that is the standard Wojo should be held to.

The competitive landscape in The Big East is fierce. It is only going to get more difficult  as they bottom dweller programs have all improved. We need some dynamism to become top tier in the league.



Wojo depleted the program

Which close non conference games are you referring to? The complete obliteration of us by Ohio State? The looking non competitive against San Diego St and New Mexico?

I agree the program was very stable and in good shape till 2013 but saying Buzz still had it in good shape and was just on the wrong side of the coin in 2014 but then calling wojo out when both the 2016 and 2018 seasons were the same situation of wrong side of close games is flawed logic.

[Uncle Rico]

Which close non conference games are you referring to? The complete obliteration of us by Ohio State? The looking non competitive against San Diego St and New Mexico?

I agree the program was very stable and in good shape till 2013 but saying Buzz still had it in good shape and was just on the wrong side of the coin in 2014 but then calling wojo out when both the 2016 and 2018 seasons were the same situation of wrong side of close games is flawed logic.

Buzz Williams quit on his players and the program.  To quote Willie, he was a phony cowboy

[Herman Cain]

Which close non conference games are you referring to? The complete obliteration of us by Ohio State? The looking non competitive against San Diego St and New Mexico?

I agree the program was very stable and in good shape till 2013 but saying Buzz still had it in good shape and was just on the wrong side of the coin in 2014 but then calling wojo out when both the 2016 and 2018 seasons were the same situation of wrong side of close games is flawed logic.

We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.

Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .

I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.

[Uncle Rico]

We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.

Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .

I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.

I understand Buzz, too.  When the going gets tough, quit

[Galway Eagle]

We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.

Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .

I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.

Right I just don't get why you make all these excuses for Buzz's close losses. I'm off the wojo hype train but it doesn't make sense to say "they lost a bunch of close games" for 2014 and then for wojo in 2016 or 2018 act like he was a complete failure.

I'm off the Wojo hype train but come on use some consistent logic here.

[brewcity77]

MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.

You can't have it both ways. Wojo can't be a mistake and say this:

We have depth at every position, good team chemistry and for the first time in a long time we will have a Crean/Buzz style athletic  roster .

Wojo is the reason for the roster. Wojo is the reason for the depth, the chemistry, and the athleticism. None of those players would be here without Wojo. And as much as you praise Stan, he also wouldn't be here without Wojo. Neither would Nelson or Killings. Every coach, every player, those are all on Wojo. Applauding the roster, applauding the chemistry, applauding the results, those are all applause for Wojo.

[Cheeks]

The program was in very strong shape . There was no house of cards. Buzz last year the team lost several close tough non conference games. Buzz had a very good pipeline of kids coming in Ahmed Hill, Marial  Shayok etc. 8 straight tournaments 2 s16 followed by an E8 is not a house of cards .

Wojo has definitely taken the program down. Right now we are somewhere close to parity with Creighton. If you are Creighton that is an acceptable level. McDermott is highly regarded out there and has a well oiled stable program going but it is not going to be a consistent factor in the national conversation . MU has the assets and tradition to consistently be in the national conversation and that is the standard Wojo should be held to.

The competitive landscape in The Big East is fierce. It is only going to get more difficult  as they bottom dweller programs have all improved. We need some dynamism to become top tier in the league.



Wojo depleted the program

Buzz quit a year early and still got paid by MU to roam the sidelines.  Character revealed.

We were picked to win the Big East, finished 6th.  Scored 35 points against Ohio State in a drubbing to lose our ranking.  Close losses...how about close wins against New Hampshire?  Needing OT to beat DePaul.  A roster management that was a mess and several players that had no business EVER being in a MU uniform.

[Cheeks]

We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.

Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .

I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.

Who should we have hired and hind sight is always 20-20

[Herman Cain]

Right I just don't get why you make all these excuses for Buzz's close losses. I'm off the wojo hype train but it doesn't make sense to say "they lost a bunch of close games" for 2014 and then for wojo in 2016 or 2018 act like he was a complete failure.

I'm off the Wojo hype train but come on use some consistent logic here.

Not making excuses . Given Buzz track record he earns the benefit of the doubt in my back

I fully acknowledge and concur that Buzz had significant emotional issues 

[wadesworld]

We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.

Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .

I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.

Who would you have hired. Who was the “unsafe” hire that was out there that we refused to go with?

[Cheeks]

We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.

Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .

I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.

Herman, didn’t we also barely beat New Hampshire at home, needed OT to beat DePaul, barely beat Georgetown at home...etc.   Don’t the close wins also need to be factored in?  I sat directly behind the bench in Anaheim and was right there with Lazar and Buzz when Buzz flat out said before the game, this team cannot shoot.  No one can shoot.  We were 17-15 for a reason, his roster management.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Why must every thread go careening off topic?

[wadesworld]

Why must every thread go careening off topic?

Mainly because we have people hoping Wojo, and thus MU, fails.

[Galway Eagle]

Not making excuses . Given Buzz track record he earns the benefit of the doubt in my back

I fully acknowledge and concur that Buzz had significant emotional issues

stating a road game, then a player was sick, another two very good teams that were effectively road games, and going on about an idiotic AD all seem like excuses to me. Again if you're going to say 'these were all close games in 2014 thus we weren't that bad' then you have to say that Wojo was also in close game situations in 2016 and 2018. 

Bottom line, there's no excuses for either or you accept the same excuses for both. If not it's poor logic

[tower912]

Mainly because we have people hoping Wojo, and thus MU, fails.

Hauser slurpers

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.

Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .

I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.

When Buzz left, the moronic AD wasn’t in place. He was a quitter. Probably related to the Hauser boys somehow.

[Cheeks]

Who would you have hired. Who was the “unsafe” hire that was out there that we refused to go with?

The backup QB should be starting, he is way better and has the most potential!!!

[Scoop Snoop]

Herman, I have been skeptical about Wojo's managerial abilities and am always really happy when he proves me wrong (23-4) and hate seeing my skepticism vindicated (year end collapse) but to say he should be replaced simply makes no sense at all to me.

Despite Buzz's success, he didn't give a rat's ass about the university so his legacy is tainted. I think Brew's very well worded post states Wojo's accomplishments and Cheek's comment "Buzz quit a year early and still got paid by MU to roam he sidelines" is spot on. I noticed his body language late in his last season and was furious when it later became obvious he quit on the team. Wojo has never done that.

I am becoming more optimistic about this coming season even though that goes against my admittedly cautious nature. Besides, there is not a snowball's chance in Hell that Wojo will be fired. Relax and take a deep breath.

[muguru]

Okay for Chicos especially and all of those that keep rambling on and on and on about "upward trajectory" and that's what Wojo has been on(according to them), now keep in mind you are all the same people that slam buzz repeatedly for his last year and a "downward trajectory" etc etc...so what happens when MU's season isn't as good this year as it was last year?? isn't that a "downward" trajectory?? That would go totally against your incessant ramblings of "upward trajectory, you can't get rid of him etc etc". Are all of you going to make excuses then if that occurs, cut him some slack, or...?? This will be an interesting case study to see if these people that are so consistent with their ramblings of "upward trajectory" suddenly switch course after this season(if it's worse than last year), make excuses, or are still supportive of him even though it would go against everything they use to suggest he should still be supported which is "upward trajectory". I think it's going to prove that most use that as a "crutch" to argue, just for argument's sake.

All I know is I'm grabbing my popcorn for this one, sitting back, watching the show and we WILL be revisiting this at the end of next season, and if what happens, what I think will happen for this upcoming year(not as good as the previous year), I WILL be digging up every single post about "upward trajectory", every single post blasting Buzz for his last year and it being a "downward trajectory", and calling EVERY single one of you out on your total and complete hypocrisy, and I do NOT want to hear sh&t like "well, he represents the University well etc etc". Nope, your #1 basis for supporting him was "upward trajectory", so you MUST stick to that, and I will make sure every single one of you does.

This is going to be soooo good. Chicos has a HUGE target on his back...this should truly expose him, I'm guessing. 

[jesmu84]

Okay for Chicos especially and all of those that keep rambling on and on and on about "upward trajectory" and that's what Wojo has been on(according to them), now keep in mind you are all the same people that slam buzz repeatedly for his last year and a "downward trajectory" etc etc...so what happens when MU's season isn't as good this year as it was last year?? isn't that a "downward" trajectory?? That would go totally against your incessant ramblings of "upward trajectory, you can't get rid of him etc etc". Are all of you going to make excuses then if that occurs, cut him some slack, or...?? This will be an interesting case study to see if these people that are so consistent with their ramblings of "upward trajectory" sudeenly switch course after this season(if it's worse than last year), make excuses, or are still supportive of him even though it would go against everything they use to suggest he should still be supported which is "upward trajectory". I think it's going to prove that most use that as a "crutch" to argue, just for aregument's sake.

All I know is I'm grabbing my popcorn for this one, sitting back, watching the show and we WILL be revisiting this at the end of next season, and if what happens, what I think will happen for this upcoming year(not as good as the previous year), I WILL be digging up every single post about "upward trajectory", every single post blasting Buzz for his last year and it being a "downward trajectory", and calling EFER single one of you out on your total and complete hypocrisy, and I do NOT want to hear sh&t like "well, he represents the University well etc etc". Nope, your #1 basis for supporting him was "upward trajectory", so you MUST stick to that, and I will make sure every single one of you does.

This is going to be soooo good. Chicos has a HUGE target on his back...this should truly expose him, I'm guessing. 

Pretty solid fan that you want MU to fail so you can stick it to some message board posters.

[jesmu84]

MU had a very good program  that was nationally respected during the Crean/Buzz era. Consistently made the tournament and won tournament games . Occasionally , a deeper run. MU produced meaningful NBA talent . MU has definitely taken a step down in the Wojo era.  MU is now producing at a level that a program like Creighton would find acceptable. The program has all the resources necessary to get back to the Crean/Buzz era.   

I give Wojo credit for the positive things he does. I believe he is a good recruiter and he has embraced the history and tradition of MU. Unfortunately , he just doesn't have what it takes to move the program back to where it was under Crean/Buzz. The Hauser defection is evidence of that.

I am very enthusiastic about the coming season sans the Hausers.  We have depth at every position, good team chemistry and for the first time in a long time we will have a Crean/Buzz style athletic  roster .  My belief is that the team will deliver on their promise. Nothing would make me more happy than to see MU step up and win The Big East. I would be the first person to congratulate Wojo.

Hopefully, a good job opens up next year that will pony up the money needed to dislodge Wojo. Stan is waiting in the wings and will do great things for MU when he gets his shot.

People here are going to be pissed when we don't get an already established and successful coach for the next hire

[tower912]

Okay for Chicos especially and all of those that keep rambling on and on and on about "upward trajectory" and that's what Wojo has been on(according to them), now keep in mind you are all the same people that slam buzz repeatedly for his last year and a "downward trajectory" etc etc...so what happens when MU's season isn't as good this year as it was last year?? isn't that a "downward" trajectory?? That would go totally against your incessant ramblings of "upward trajectory, you can't get rid of him etc etc". Are all of you going to make excuses then if that occurs, cut him some slack, or...?? This will be an interesting case study to see if these people that are so consistent with their ramblings of "upward trajectory" sudeenly switch course after this season(if it's worse than last year), make excuses, or are still supportive of him even though it would go against everything they use to suggest he should still be supported which is "upward trajectory". I think it's going to prove that most use that as a "crutch" to argue, just for aregument's sake.

All I know is I'm grabbing my popcorn for this one, sitting back, watching the show and we WILL be revisiting this at the end of next season, and if what happens, what I think will happen for this upcoming year(not as good as the previous year), I WILL be digging up every single post about "upward trajectory", every single post blasting Buzz for his last year and it being a "downward trajectory", and calling EFER single one of you out on your total and complete hypocrisy, and I do NOT want to hear sh&t like "well, he represents the University well etc etc". Nope, your #1 basis for supporting him was "upward trajectory", so you MUST stick to that, and I will make sure every single one of you does.

This is going to be soooo good. Chicos has a HUGE target on his back...this should truly expose him, I'm guessing. 

So you are rooting for a bad season so that you can say 'I told you so' to everyone who doesn't want Wojo fired.   Quite the character you are revealing.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Okay for Chicos especially and all of those that keep rambling on and on and on about "upward trajectory" and that's what Wojo has been on(according to them), now keep in mind you are all the same people that slam buzz repeatedly for his last year and a "downward trajectory" etc etc...so what happens when MU's season isn't as good this year as it was last year?? isn't that a "downward" trajectory?? That would go totally against your incessant ramblings of "upward trajectory, you can't get rid of him etc etc". Are all of you going to make excuses then if that occurs, cut him some slack, or...?? This will be an interesting case study to see if these people that are so consistent with their ramblings of "upward trajectory" sudeenly switch course after this season(if it's worse than last year), make excuses, or are still supportive of him even though it would go against everything they use to suggest he should still be supported which is "upward trajectory". I think it's going to prove that most use that as a "crutch" to argue, just for aregument's sake.

All I know is I'm grabbing my popcorn for this one, sitting back, watching the show and we WILL be revisiting this at the end of next season, and if what happens, what I think will happen for this upcoming year(not as good as the previous year), I WILL be digging up every single post about "upward trajectory", every single post blasting Buzz for his last year and it being a "downward trajectory", and calling EFER single one of you out on your total and complete hypocrisy, and I do NOT want to hear sh&t like "well, he represents the University well etc etc". Nope, your #1 basis for supporting him was "upward trajectory", so you MUST stick to that, and I will make sure every single one of you does.

This is going to be soooo good. Chicos has a HUGE target on his back...this should truly expose him, I'm guessing. 

There's a huge problem with this position. Even after Buzz' bad year, no one was calling for him to get fired. Even in hindsight, I don't remember anyone saying we should have fired Buzz. Even Willie, who hated Buzz more than anyone, said he didn't want him fired.

So you comparing the "Buzz haters" to "Wojo supporters" doesn't really work. One, because the Wojo supporters wanted to keep Buzz even after his bad season and two, because I don't think anyone was mad at Buzz for "downward trajectory". They are mad because they subscribe to the belief that Buzz quit a year early and stuck around to keep a paycheck. Something I never bought into personally, I just think he was caught with his pants down when Blue went pro.

If next year is worse than last year that will be a red flag. Depending on how big of one, it may be time to move on from Wojo. But if we end up with a 6 seed next season instead of a 5 seed, then no, it won't be time to fire Wojo.

You're problem Guru is that you are too dualistic in your thinking. The coach is either doing great or should be fired. Except in extreme circumstances, a coach doesn't go from an ice cold seat to fired in a single season. That's why the concept of a hot seat exists. Wojo isn't on the hot seat yet. In fact, last season made his seat colder not warmer. He'd have to have a trainwreck of a season to deserve being fired next season.