MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on January 24, 2020, 10:40:40 PM
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Kamar Baldwin- consistent winner
Markus Howard- consistent high volume scorer who hasn’t won $hit!
Baldwin puts the team on his back when needed
Howard tried to put the team on his back at all times. His last few minutes of regulation and entire overtime was forced shot after forced brick
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Stfu.
Baldwin has won...what?
Dumbass.
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Stfu.
Baldwin has won...what?
Dumbass.
+1
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Baldwin won Tonight you idiot meanwhile Howard lost tonight. Baldwin has also advanced past the first round of the tournament three times
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Wadesworld, Baldwin won Tonight you idiot meanwhile Howard lost tonight. Baldwin has also advanced past the first round of the tournament three times.
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The jerkoff hasn't posted for a month before today.
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Baldwin won Tonight you idiot meanwhile Howard lost tonight. Baldwin has also advanced past the first round of the tournament three times
Touché wojo and co have NEVER wind and NCAA tourney game
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[walk through double doors; turn right around]
Good night, everyone!
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Touché wojo and co have NEVER wind and NCAA tourney game
Really? Wow, thanks for letting us know
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Baldwin won Tonight you idiot meanwhile Howard lost tonight. Baldwin has also advanced past the first round of the tournament three times
Baldwin has court savvy while Howard is reckless at times. It's a shame Wojo hasn't been able to discipline Howard enough with his costly dribbling at the end of games into double teams.
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Baldwin wasn’t even first team ALL BE last year as the top dawg on a team that didn’t even make the tourney. He’s a really nice player and went off today, but let’s stop pretending he’s Kobe Bryant while Markus is a bum. Markus was completely outplaying him until he got his bell rung.
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Not sure what Baldwin has won, but pretty sure Howard has not won anything but scoring records.
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Come on - he has only had 4 years to coach Howard.
Baldwin has court savvy while Howard is reckless at times. It's a shame Wojo hasn't been able to discipline Howard enough with his costly dribbling at the end of games into double teams.
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Come on - he has only had 4 years to coach Howard.
Some European coach will correct it and you'll see a highlight where he puts up 60 in France.
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All the same dickheads come here seconds after a loss.
How about your Badgers?
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Markus had a disastrous last quarter of the game. He was pushing too hard just as Kobe did earlier.
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All the same dickheads come here seconds after a loss.
How about your Badgers?
+1
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Baldwin is a female dog.
The follow through on the layup where Markus got hurt looked intentional to me.
Hope Theo has a little something for him at the Fiserv.
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nah
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nah
Yah
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Baldwin is a female dog.
The follow through on the layup where Markus got hurt looked intentional to me.
Hope Theo has a little something for him at the Fiserv.
Looking at the replay, it looked like he hit Markus in the head with his elbow on the follow through. Does anyone know if the officials went to the monitor during the TV time out?
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Looking at the replay, it looked like he hit Markus in the head with his elbow on the follow through. Does anyone know if the officials went to the monitor during the TV time out?
He did hit him with an elbow and it sure looked intentional. Obviously the refs didn't look at it or Kamar would have gotten a F2.
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Baldwin is a female dog.
The follow through on the layup where Markus got hurt looked intentional to me.
Hope Theo has a little something for him at the Fiserv.
IMO, Butler played a clean & fair game. I didn't see anything dirty. In sports, sometimes the other team is just better. Butler was at home and better coached tonight. It happens in the BigEast.
I hope Theo does nothing to retaliate at home; he'll just get kicked out and that hurts MU. (unless you like MU to lose?)
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Baldwin is a female dog.
The follow through on the layup where Markus got hurt looked intentional to me.
Hope Theo has a little something for him at the Fiserv.
Sorry, but this isn't Wojo basketball. You shake hands after the game like a good boy.
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Sorry, but this isn't Wojo basketball. You shake hands after the game like a good boy.
I just wish we would have a program more like Bill Self’s. Win, when you get your wins removed nobody cares, pay your players, have “tough guys” who aren’t “soft” and will throw stools at people.
Stupid.
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I just wish we would have a program more like Bill Self’s. Win, when you get your wins removed nobody cares, pay your players, have “tough guys” who aren’t “soft” and will throw stools at people.
Stupid.
You picked Bill Self out of all coaches? That says a lot....
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Sorry, but this isn't Wojo basketball. You shake hands after the game like a good boy.
Tonight you shake hands.
At the Fiserv it's an elbow to the head and the refs better not call a foul.
That would be fair.
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Tonight you shake hands.
At the Fiserv it's an elbow to the head and the refs better not call a foul.
That would be fair.
Stay Classy
Nothing was done to MH on purpose
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IMO, Butler played a clean & fair game. I didn't see anything dirty. In sports, sometimes the other team is just better. Butler was at home and better coached tonight. It happens in the BigEast.
I hope Theo does nothing to retaliate at home; he'll just get kicked out and that hurts MU. (unless you like MU to lose?)
If he does exactly what Kamar did, not only shouldn't he be kicked out, he shouldn't even get called for a foul.
It was a clean game , except for when Marquettes best player got mugged.
No biggie I guess.
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Tonight you shake hands.
At the Fiserv it's an elbow to the head and the refs better not call a foul.
That would be fair.
You're a gem. How about MU wins against Butler instead of some imaginary tough guy BS that will cost MU a game?
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You picked Bill Self out of all coaches? That says a lot....
Yeah that’s who I pick. You can shake hands after a game like a “good boy” (your knock on Wojo), or you can go and fight the throw punches. I know I’d rather have the latter!
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Stay Classy
Nothing was done to MH on purpose
Do you think I give a fork about your take on anything?
Paybacks a MDDG
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If he does exactly what Kamar did, not only shouldn't he be kicked out, he shouldn't even get called for a foul.
It was a clean game , except for when Marquettes best player got mugged.
No biggie I guess.
So you think that is why MU lost?
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You're a gem. How about MU wins against Butler instead of some imaginary tough guy BS that will cost MU a game?
What are you talking about?
How will it cost Marquette a game when there won't even be a foul called?
Do you read before you reply.
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Yeah that’s who I pick. You can shake hands after a game like a “good boy” (your knock on Wojo), or you can go and fight the throw punches. I know I’d rather have the latter!
You didn't read the context of the quote then...... go figure.
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So you think that is why MU lost?
It might have had something to do with it.....
Ya think?
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You didn't read the context of the quote then...... go figure.
I did read the content of the quote. Someone wants MU to retaliate and take a cheap shot at a Butler player. You took a shot at Wojo saying no chance that happens, Wojo teams shake hands instead of throw cheap shots.
You want a program like Bill Self runs (fight your opponent when they do something you don’t like) and not one like Wojo runs (shake hands after a game like a good boy).
Sorry your stupidity is being called out and you don’t like it.
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What are you talking about?
How will it cost Marquette a game when there won't even be a foul called?
Do you read before you reply.
I read exactly what you wrote: "it's an elbow to the head.." = flagrant foul.
"and the refs better not call a foul"; just because you say so?
Brother, if you have that sort of pull in Big East games, please use it.
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I did read the content of the quote. Someone wants MU to retaliate and take a cheap shot at a Butler player. You took a shot at Wojo saying no chance that happens, Wojo teams shake hands instead of throw cheap shots.
You want a program like Bill Self runs (fight your opponent when they do something you don’t like) and not one like Wojo runs (shake hands after a game like a good boy).
Sorry your stupidity is being called out and you don’t like it.
No, I want a program that doesn't recruit crap like Jayce and coaches up players like Markus Howard. Ohhh and it'd be nice if the coach knew the score as well going into the final possession. We're still working on the fouling thing in close games near the end though. Maybe we will figure it out by the conference tourney.....
Bottom Line: I feel sorry for the kids; the coach makes them soft.
Further Note: Talked to someone who used to play for the program and is coaching now. He doesn't understand what Wojo is doing either......
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I read exactly what you wrote: "it's an elbow to the head.." = flagrant foul.
"and the refs better not call a foul"; just because you say so?
Brother, if you have that sort of pull in Big East games, please use it.
Oh, now you get it.......
An elbow to the head is a flagrant foul.
I'm glad you explained it to me.
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It might have had something to do with it.....
Ya think?
I don't. Butler was the tougher, better coached team and home team tonight.
I've been watching Big East basketball for a long time and I didn't see anything unusual tonight. If you think so, then you must think MU has been Very Lucky over the years at home. (If you are being fair about evaluating refs)
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I don't. Butler was the tougher, better coached team and home team tonight.
I've been watching Big East basketball for a long time and I didn't see anything unusual tonight. If you think so, then you must think MU has been Very Lucky over the years at home. (If you are being fair about evaluating refs)
I'm saying Marquettes best player got elbowed in the head and no call. He wasn't the same from that point on in a game that went to overtime.
Is it really that hard to understand??
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Oh, now you get it.......
An elbow to the head is a flagrant foul.
I'm glad you explained it to me.
Joe, I quoted you. What more do you want? I did not confirm or validate your comments.You need to read all the posts my friend.
How about we move past this disaster of a game and focus on the rest of the season? I hope we can agree on the urgency of the next game?
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I'm saying Marquettes best player got elbowed in the head and no call. He wasn't the same from that point on in a game that went to overtime.
Is it really that hard to understand??
You feel MU lost because of the refs? Got It. Good luck with that perspective going forward. College basketball will be a dark place for you.
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You feel MU lost because of the refs? Got It. Good luck with that perspective going forward. College basketball will be a dark place for you.
I'm saying Marquette lost a close game after its best player got intentionally elbowed in the head AND didn't get a call.
You see. There are two parts there.
Marquettes best player being injured, making winning more unlikely AND Kamar not getting a flagrant or any other kind of foul called, making winning more likely for Butler.
So no, it wasn't just the refs, but that one play sure changed the complexion of the game.
I actually credit Butlers fans. They got on the refs so much that they ignored a Kamar Baldwin elbow to the head of Markus Howard.
I wish Marquette had more fans like that.
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I'm saying Marquette lost a close game after its best player got intentionally elbowed in the head AND didn't get a call.
You see. There are two parts there.
Marquettes best player being injured, making winning more unlikely AND Kamar not getting a flagrant or any other kind of foul called, making winning more likely for Butler.
So no, it wasn't just the refs, but that one play sure changed the complexion of the game.
I actually credit Butlers fans. They got on the refs so much that they ignored a Kamar Baldwin elbow to the head of Markus Howard.
I wish Marquette had more fans like that.
So tell me why we didn't double team Baldwin again? Exactly......
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So tell me why we didn't double team Baldwin again? Exactly......
Because typically when you are forcing a player to settle for a long pull up 2, you live with it if he makes them. Credit to Baldwin, he was making all of them. Some coaches would pull out the double team there, others wouldn't overcorrect and allow for regression to the mean. Sometimes the former is the right move, sometime the latter is the right move. Wojo is definitely one that typically falls into the latter category. I don't know if doubling Baldwin would have worked, but we can say for sure that what he did roll out didn't work.
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Because typically when you are forcing a player to settle for a long pull up 2, you live with it if he makes them. Credit to Baldwin, he was making all of them. Some coaches would pull out the double team there, others wouldn't overcorrect and allow for regression to the mean. Sometimes the former is the right move, sometime the latter is the right move. Wojo is definitely one that typically falls into the latter category. I don't know if doubling Baldwin would have worked, but we can say for sure that what he did roll out didn't work.
I mean..... he hit 17 consecutive points basically. You have to double team to disrupt at some point, especially when Theo John was having a great night protecting the rim. Literally, no in game adjustment capability with Wojo.
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Because typically when you are forcing a player to settle for a long pull up 2, you live with it if he makes them. Credit to Baldwin, he was making all of them. Some coaches would pull out the double team there, others wouldn't overcorrect and allow for regression to the mean. Sometimes the former is the right move, sometime the latter is the right move. Wojo is definitely one that typically falls into the latter category. I don't know if doubling Baldwin would have worked, but we can say for sure that what he did roll out didn't work.
IMO, the biggest shot he hit was a deep fadeaway 2 to cut the lead to 2 at the the end of regulation. It was really good difference and a better shot. Miss that one and it's probably a different story.
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For MU to have any chance of doing anything this year, they need a strong and fresh Markus at the end of games. It seems he often noticeably wears down.
Sorry for the awful formatting below, but I wanted to see how Howard shot the ball in "crunch" time in BE play since he's been an upperclassman. (Crunch time= ~6 min)
Looking at the data:
1. He was superman against Creighton. Wow.
2. He makes a ton of FTs at the end of games.
3. I thought he was really bad in these games: @Nova (2019), @Seton Hall (2019), @Butler (tonight). I didn't notice him being bad down the stretch in the Providence game this year but he didn't shoot that well.
Team Score Result FGM FGA FG % PTS TO
St Johns 89-69 Loss 0 0 0.00% 0 0
Xavier 70-52 Win 1 3 33.33% 3 0
Creighton 106-104 OT Win 7 9 77.78% 26 3
Seton Hall 70-66 Win 0 3 0.00% 0 2
Georgetown 74-71 Win 0 0 0.00% 0 0
Providence 79-68 Win 1 2 50.00% 6 1
Depaul 79-69 Win 0 1 0.00% 8 0
Xavier 87-82 Win 2 4 50.00% 9 0
Butler 76-58 Win 2 3 66.67% 5 2
St Johns 70-69 Loss 1 2 50.00% 3 0
Villanova 66-65 Win 2 3 66.67% 6 1
Depaul 92-73 Win 2 3 66.67% 7 1
Butler 79-69 Win 2 2 100.00% 7 3
Providence 76-58 Win 0 2 0.00% 6 0
Villanova 67-61 Loss 0 4 0.00% 1 1
Creighton 66-60 Loss 2 5 40.00% 6 2
Seton Hall 73-64 Loss 0 3 0.00% 0 1
Georgetown 86-84 Loss 1 1 100.00% 5 1
St Johns 86-54 Win 0 0 0.00% 2 0
Seton Hall 81-79 Loss 0 2 0.00% 11 0
Creighton 92-75 Loss 0 1 0.00% 2 0
Villanova 71-60 Win 0 2 0.00% 6 1
Providence 81-80 OT Loss 2 8 25.00% 8 1
Seton Hall 69-55 Loss 0 3 0.00% 2 0
Xavier 85-65 Win 1 2 50.00% 3 0
Georgetown 84-80 Win 3 6 50.00% 11 0
St Johns 82-68 Win 1 3 33.33% 6 0
Butler 89-85 OT Loss 1 9 11.11% 2 1
31 86 36.05%
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For MU to have any chance of doing anything this year, they need a strong and fresh Markus at the end of games. It seems he often noticeably wears down.
Worn down or beat down??
Am I the only one who saw Markus get elbowed in the head by Kamar and crumple to the floor in agony??
Am I the only one who noticed his game completely drop off??
I know I'm not the only one, but some people are acting like it never happened. WTAF.
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hit on the head or not, we have seen this before from howard at the end of big games. great scorer, but not a clutch guy who makes winning plays at the end of a close game against good teams
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Worn down or beat down??
Am I the only one who saw Markus get elbowed in the head by Kamar and crumple to the floor in agony??
Am I the only one who noticed his game completely drop off??
I know I'm not the only one, but some people are acting like it never happened. WTAF.
I just went back and watched the play. Howard goes up for the lay up, Baddley goes for the chase down block, misses, and clearly hits Howard in the head with his right elbow. You can see Howard's head recoil. He tumbles into the chairs and probably hits his head again. That part is hard to see. The MU players are walking up the ref with WTF looks on their faces. In the original, you can hear the official yell "He wasn't pushed."
So, the officiating crew clearly missed the follow through elbow. And, I was wrong. I was thinking it was at the under 12 and had 11:34 stuck in my head. It actually occurred with 15:44 left in the game, at which point Howard had 24 points and 6 assists. During the next 20 minutes of play, he had two points and 0 assists.
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I just went back and watched the play. Howard goes up for the lay up, Baddley goes for the chase down block, misses, and clearly hits Howard in the head with his right elbow. You can see Howard's head recoil. He tumbles into the chairs and probably hits his head again. That part is hard to see. The MU players are walking up the ref with WTF looks on their faces. In the original, you can hear the official yell "He wasn't pushed."
So, the officiating crew clearly missed the follow through elbow. And, I was wrong. I was thinking it was at the under 12 and had 11:34 stuck in my head. It actually occurred with 15:44 left in the game, at which point Howard had 24 points and 6 assists. During the next 20 minutes of play, he had two points and 0 assists.
You are correct, it was Baddley. I thought it was Baldwin. All I saw was the elbow to the head and then my focus was on Markus because I thought he could be seriously hurt. I also was looking at the refs for some kind of a whistle. Nothing. I've also seen and played a lot of basketball and it looked intentional AF. If Wojo doesn't at least ask the conference officials to look at the play he may not be the right coach for Marquette. You gotta protect your players as a coach. It's rule number one.
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A little disappointed he did not lose his $h!t and get a T there.
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How can a coach be in Year 6 and still look spooked and be clueless in certain situations? HE DEFINITELY SHOULD HAVE BEEN T'D UP AFTER SEEING HIS STAR GET A NO-CALL AFTER GETTING CLOBBERED LIKE THAT!
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A little disappointed he did not lose his $h!t and get a T there.
If ever a time called for it, that was the time. I'm sure if Marquette had lost the game anyway he would have been blasted for getting the T but at some point, as a coach you have to take a stand.
The craziest thing, is that the refs should have been watching for a flagrant foul because Butler was obviously pissed that Markus was getting calls in the first half. They got T'd up right at the half after a foul on Markus.
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If ever a time called for it, that was the time. I'm sure if Marquette had lost the game anyway he would have been blasted for getting the T but at some point, as a coach you have to take a stand.
The craziest thing, is that the refs should have been watching for a flagrant foul because Butler was obviously pissed that Markus was getting calls in the first half. They got T'd up right at the half after a foul on Markus.
Exactly. That was a calculated T on the part of their coach.
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Worn down or beat down??
Am I the only one who saw Markus get elbowed in the head by Kamar and crumple to the floor in agony??
Am I the only one who noticed his game completely drop off??
I know I'm not the only one, but some people are acting like it never happened. WTAF.
So if it so obvious to you Makus was impaired, what are you saying about Wojo? More bad coaching? Should he have sat him or asked him to be a decoy? Good chance we win if he did either.
I guess Wojo just had a really bad night. Too bad, his players deserved better.
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Markus was essentially a decoy for about the next 12 minutes Sacar and Bailey hit shots and they were feeding Theo in the post, for better or for worse. The last 3 minutes of regulation, Markus tried to take over and wasn't even close.
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By the rules, they probably should have looked at it. But it wasn't intentional. That stuff happens in the course of a game.
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Pretty sure Markus hit the side of his head hard on the leg of the chair after Baddley hit him. You can see him sliding and then stop, suddenly with his head snapping sideways. I’d be really surprised if he didn’t have a concussion.
I also thought there were signs throughout that second half that his legs were tired. So many shots just short before he started missing more wildly. Hope he is ok and get some rest. That was a busy week.
As for the possible concussion, a similar thing happened with Powell earlier in the year in one of SH’s non-conf games if I recall correctly. He kept playing after getting hit but was not himself. They eventually removed him from the game because he was clearly not himself. I think he even asked why they were scrimmaging at wherever they were playing (Rutgers maybe). He was in the protocol after that.
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I'm saying Marquette lost a close game after its best player got intentionally elbowed in the head AND didn't get a call.
It was not intentional. Jesus.
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I'm saying Marquettes best player got elbowed in the head and no call. He wasn't the same from that point on in a game that went to overtime.
Is it really that hard to understand??
Theo accidentally poked McDermott in the eye contesting a shot, and no foul was called. Things happen. The game is moving fast.
And to post multiple times about wanting to extract revenge when Butler visits us? Are you an adult?
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I don't think it was intentional. Just like I don't think Theo meant to poke the Butler player in the eye. K v Kstate was intentional.
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So if it so obvious to you Makus was impaired, what are you saying about Wojo? More bad coaching? Should he have sat him or asked him to be a decoy? Good chance we win if he did either.
I guess Wojo just had a really bad night. Too bad, his players deserved better.
You may have noticed that Wojo and Markus have a unique relationship.
Markus decides when he plays and when he shoots, and Wojo gets the benefit of exploiting Markus for his scoring and recruiting purposes.
I am a big fan of Markus, and I think he deserves the chance to showcase his skills. Some games he will showcase his faults. I can live with that because this was never going to be "The Year", even if the Hausers had stayed. This year is all about recruiting, and getting Mane is still the number one priority. Markus' ultimate green light may help make that priority a reality.
I am hopeful that this years team makes the tournament and has some success but I'm not so delusional as to think this is a National Championship caliber team. I think Wojo knows that too.
Next years recruits along with this years returning talent will give Marquette the best shot it's had in a long time to make a big splash, especially if Mane decides to commit.
Markus had several chances against Butler to be the hero and failed. I believe it was due to the elbow to the head. Wojo gave Markus those chances knowing the potential costs and benefits. It's not optimum, but it is what it is.
I honestly believe Wojo is focused on the long game and that undoubtedly will affect results in the short term. The Butler game was a perfect example. He's joined at the hip with Markus and like it or not, that's the way this season is going to play out. I can live with that.
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Markus was essentially a decoy for about the next 12 minutes Sacar and Bailey hit shots and they were feeding Theo in the post, for better or for worse. The last 3 minutes of regulation, Markus tried to take over and wasn't even close.
I thought we played a very good game in a super tough gym. The Wojo mistake did not cost the game. I suspect 4-18 from the three hurt more.
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Theo accidentally poked McDermott in the eye contesting a shot, and no foul was called. Things happen. The game is moving fast.
And to post multiple times about wanting to extract revenge when Butler visits us? Are you an adult?
Actually a foul was called on the McDermott play, it was just much earlier. McDermott was playing after the whistle, and got poked in the eye after the whistle.
The Howard contact was during live action.
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You may have noticed that Wojo and Markus have a unique relationship.
Markus decides when he plays and when he shoots, and Wojo gets the benefit of exploiting Markus for his scoring and recruiting purposes.
I am a big fan of Markus, and I think he deserves the chance to showcase his skills. Some games he will showcase his faults. I can live with that because this was never going to be "The Year", even if the Hausers had stayed. This year is all about recruiting, and getting Mane is still the number one priority. Markus' ultimate green light may help make that priority a reality.
I am hopeful that this years team makes the tournament and has some success but I'm not so delusional as to think this is a National Championship caliber team. I think Wojo knows that too.
Next years recruits along with this years returning talent will give Marquette the best shot it's had in a long time to make a big splash, especially if Mane decides to commit.
Markus had several chances against Butler to be the hero and failed. I believe it was due to the elbow to the head. Wojo gave Markus those chances knowing the potential costs and benefits. It's not optimum, but it is what it is.
I honestly believe Wojo is focused on the long game and that undoubtedly will affect results in the short term. The Butler game was a perfect example. He's joined at the hip with Markus and like it or not, that's the way this season is going to play out. I can live with that.
So you are saying sacrificing wins and any kind of program system or identity is ok as long as it lures in other highly ranked recruits. Ok whatever. How about winning consistently? And what happens when the next high volume shooter comes in and expects to be the next Marcus. How does the team ever break the cycle? The crew shouldn't be running the ship. You can attract recruits by having a player friendly system without ruining any kind of team concept.
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Theo accidentally poked McDermott in the eye contesting a shot, and no foul was called. Things happen. The game is moving fast.
And to post multiple times about wanting to extract revenge when Butler visits us? Are you an adult?
Read carefully and slowly.
Yes Theo accidentally poked McDermott in the eye. A foul should have been called.
Yes I believe Baddley intentionally hammered Markus and a flagrant foul should have been assessed.
Marquettes best player got hammered.
Butlers third, maybe fourth best player got a slight pole in the eye.
See the difference??
Knowing that Butler was pissed because Markus was getting calls in the first Half as evidenced by the T at halftime, I believe Markus was a marked man. Yes I'm an adult and I've played a lot of basketball. In my experience, if my teams best player was targeted, the other team knew enough to bench their best player or retribution was coming. It's a mans game and I can tell you wouldn't last.
At the very least Wojo should have forced the refs to T him up, and told his players to aggressively challenge Baldwins shots. If he got hammered on a follow through, so be it. Marquette lost the game anyway. The only message that was sent was that Wojo is soft, and doesn't protect his players.
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So you are saying sacrificing wins and any kind of program system or identity is ok as long as it lures in other highly ranked recruits. Ok whatever. How about winning consistently? And what happens when the next high volume shooter comes in and expects to be the next Marcus. How does the team ever break the cycle? The crew shouldn't be running the ship. You can attract recruits by having a player friendly system without ruining any kind of team concept.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Marquette has obviously won games featuring Markus. It's harsh, but it's reality. This was never going to be "The Year". Giving the team the opportunity to win games while using Markus as a recruiting tool at the same time is not a bad strategy IMHO.
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Am I the only one that thinks Howard was barely touched (if at all) on his injury? I thought he just slid into the chair and hit his head. If someone has a video of the replay, I’d love to see. Unless I see otherwise, it seems like crazy talk to think Wojo should have done anything on that play.
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Read carefully and slowly.
Yes Theo accidentally poked McDermott in the eye. A foul should have been called.
Yes I believe Baddley intentionally hammered Markus and a flagrant foul should have been assessed.
Marquettes best player got hammered.
Butlers third, maybe fourth best player got a slight pole in the eye.
See the difference??
Knowing that Butler was pissed because Markus was getting calls in the first Half as evidenced by the T at halftime, I believe Markus was a marked man. Yes I'm an adult and I've played a lot of basketball. In my experience, if my teams best player was targeted, the other team knew enough to bench their best player or retribution was coming. It's a mans game and I can tell you wouldn't last.
At the very least Wojo should have forced the refs to T him up, and told his players to aggressively challenge Baldwins shots. If he got hammered on a follow through, so be it. Marquette lost the game anyway. The only message that was sent was that Wojo is soft, and doesn't protect his players.
Facepalm. I've heard The Onion is hiring writers. You should consider applying.
Please tweet your solution to MUBB. I look forward to watching Wojo get technicals every game going into halftime, and making the other team's best player a "marked man." Like, the best player on the opposition isn't already at the top of the scouting report.
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Read carefully and slowly.
Yes Theo accidentally poked McDermott in the eye. A foul should have been called.
Yes I believe Baddley intentionally hammered Markus and a flagrant foul should have been assessed.
Marquettes best player got hammered.
Butlers third, maybe fourth best player got a slight pole in the eye.
See the difference??
Knowing that Butler was pissed because Markus was getting calls in the first Half as evidenced by the T at halftime, I believe Markus was a marked man. Yes I'm an adult and I've played a lot of basketball. In my experience, if my teams best player was targeted, the other team knew enough to bench their best player or retribution was coming. It's a mans game and I can tell you wouldn't last.
At the very least Wojo should have forced the refs to T him up, and told his players to aggressively challenge Baldwins shots. If he got hammered on a follow through, so be it. Marquette lost the game anyway. The only message that was sent was that Wojo is soft, and doesn't protect his players.
No. Just no. Jesus.
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Am I the only one that thinks Howard was barely touched (if at all) on his injury? I thought he just slid into the chair and hit his head. If someone has a video of the replay, I’d love to see. Unless I see otherwise, it seems like crazy talk to think Wojo should have done anything on that play.
I DVR'd the game. I have watched the play multiple times. It looks to me like Baddley's elbow hits Markus and Markus's head recoils immediately. (Feels like the Zapruder film)
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Facepalm. I've heard The Onion is hiring writers. You should consider applying.
Please tweet your solution to MUBB. I look forward to watching Wojo get technicals every game going into halftime, and making the other team's best player a "marked man." Like, the best player on the opposition isn't already at the top of the scouting report.
Marked for a hard foul.
Boy you're clueless.
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Am I the only one that thinks Howard was barely touched (if at all) on his injury? I thought he just slid into the chair and hit his head. If someone has a video of the replay, I’d love to see. Unless I see otherwise, it seems like crazy talk to think Wojo should have done anything on that play.
Have you ever taken the tip of an elbow to the top of your head from a descending player?? One the size of Baddley?? Who in my opinion had malicious intent.
If not, you don't know what you're talking about. Markus was hurt before he ever hit the floor. I've had it happen and it is brutal. I have a scar to prove it.
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I DVR'd the game. I have watched the play multiple times. It looks to me like Baddley's elbow hits Markus and Markus's head recoils immediately. (Feels like the Zapruder film)
I didn't need to watch it multiple times. I've had it happen to me and it isn't pleasant. People think Markus got hurt after he hit the ground, which I don't believe is the case. The way he crumpled indicates to me that the elbow caused most of the damage.
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Am I the only one that thinks Howard was barely touched (if at all) on his injury? I thought he just slid into the chair and hit his head. If someone has a video of the replay, I’d love to see. Unless I see otherwise, it seems like crazy talk to think Wojo should have done anything on that play.
No I didn't think he got hit at least not significantly. In real time I thought he got hammered but when they showed it in slow motion from a different angle it didn't t look like he even made contact. You cant see it by seeing the angle from the back. He hit his head on the chair though. The thing is if it had been say Bailey doing the same thing and they called a flagrant or even a foul there would be an uproar on this board
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Facepalm. I've heard The Onion is hiring writers. You should consider applying.
Please tweet your solution to MUBB. I look forward to watching Wojo get technicals every game going into halftime, and making the other team's best player a "marked man." Like, the best player on the opposition isn't already at the top of the scouting report.
+1000
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So, I tried an experiment. My wife is a big basketball fan. Hoosier fan, but I love her anyway. My 13 year old son has been playing basketball since he was 5. I pulled up the DVR of the sequence of plays leading to the play in question. I told them that I was going to play this little bit and I wanted their observations. I told them I was not going to preface it in any way, just tell me what you see.
When Baldwin initially stole the ball, wife: 'that's a foul"! Son, " he mugged him"!
When Markus got clocked, Wife "did they call a flagrant?" Son, jumping out of his chair and pointing at the screen, " He totally elbowed him in the head!"
Sometimes, people see what they want to see.
Markus 6-14 from the field prior, 2-13 from the field after.
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The two aren't mutually exclusive. Marquette has obviously won games featuring Markus. It's harsh, but it's reality. This was never going to be "The Year". Giving the team the opportunity to win games while using Markus as a recruiting tool at the same time is not a bad strategy IMHO.
But you said they were. "Wojo is focused on the long game and that undoubtedly will affect results in the short term."
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So, I tried an experiment. My wife is a big basketball fan. Hoosier fan, but I love her anyway. My 13 year old son has been playing basketball since he was 5. I pulled up the DVR of the sequence of plays leading to the play in question. I told them that I was going to play this little bit and I wanted their observations. I told them I was not going to preface it in any way, just tell me what you see.
When Baldwin initially stole the ball, wife: 'that's a foul"! Son, " he mugged him"!
When Markus got clocked, Wife "did they call a flagrant?" Son, jumping out of his chair and pointing at the screen, " He totally elbowed him in the head!"
Sometimes, people see what they want to see.
Markus 6-14 from the field prior, 2-13 from the field after.
Right people see what they want to see. In real time it looked like a bad foul. Can you honestly say you saw his elbow hit his head hard, not a recoil did you actually see it his head. Look at the replay they gave from a different angle. We are marquette fans I wanted it to be a flagrant it simply wasn't.
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I saw the Butler player's arm hit Markus in the head. I saw Markus react instantaneously like he had taken a blow to the head. I cannot make it any clearer than that.
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Right people see what they want to see. In real time it looked like a bad foul. Can you honestly say you saw his elbow hit his head hard, not a recoil did you actually see it his head. Look at the replay they gave from a different angle. We are marquette fans I wanted it to be a flagrant it simply wasn't.
You're simply wrong.
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You're simply wrong.
Good arguement just tell someone they are wrong and it's all good. Classic. I maybe wrong on getting hit on the head buts it not definitive, I am not wrong about being a flagrant or howard hitting his head on the chair.
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So, I tried an experiment. My wife is a big basketball fan. Hoosier fan, but I love her anyway. My 13 year old son has been playing basketball since he was 5. I pulled up the DVR of the sequence of plays leading to the play in question. I told them that I was going to play this little bit and I wanted their observations. I told them I was not going to preface it in any way, just tell me what you see.
When Baldwin initially stole the ball, wife: 'that's a foul"! Son, " he mugged him"!
When Markus got clocked, Wife "did they call a flagrant?" Son, jumping out of his chair and pointing at the screen, " He totally elbowed him in the head!"
Sometimes, people see what they want to see.
Markus 6-14 from the field prior, 2-13 from the field after.
Marquette has a professional training staff on the bench and they travel with a team doctor. Are you suggesting they are incompetent? There was four timeouts in the last 2:56 of regulation to further evaluate Markus.
Baldwin had two points at halftime, and 29 points after. Did Jordan knock sense into him at halftime?
Here is my take (and I agree concussions are tricky so time will tell in the ensuing days): Jordan made halftime adjustments to double and triple team Markus out of high picks and to body him on drives...just like he adjusted to have Baldwin iso time after time. Markus has an ORating of 88.6 in Pomeroy A games as great coaches adjust. There was a reason why other MU players shot so well last night...because they were left wide open.
The staff has to do much better., including concussion protocol if true. However, in BE play and excluding the Xavier game, MU has been outscored in the first ten minutes of the 2nd half by 22% out of the locker room. In game adjustments have and continue to be a major problem for this staff as they admitted last night post game.
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I didn't need to watch it multiple times. I've had it happen to me and it isn't pleasant. People think Markus got hurt after he hit the ground, which I don't believe is the case. The way he crumpled indicates to me that the elbow caused most of the damage.
Question: Why would Wojo keep playing Howard if this was SO serious, debilitating and concussive?
Btw - I suspect you catch a lot of elbows while playing hoops. You’re THAT guy.
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But you said they were. "Wojo is focused on the long game and that undoubtedly will affect results in the short term."
Yep, leaning on Markus will get wins and losses. Not leaning on Markus will get wins and losses. I would say it's a coin flip as to which way is ultimately better this year.
I said it will affect results, not how they will be affected. Markus will win and already has won some games for Marquette this season. Markus may well have lost the Butler game, and may well lose a few more, but that doesn't mean peak Markus isn't the best approach going forward. It's just another way to win or lose.
Peak Markus almost certainly appeals to recruits which is the deciding factor in my book.
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It is possible to be affected without being concussed. Markus had 5 second half points in 4 minutes and 16 seconds, so up to that point, the second half adjustments had not affected him. 2-13 after.
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Question: Why would Wojo keep playing Howard if this was SO serious, debilitating and concussive?
Btw - I suspect you catch a lot of elbows while playing hoops. You’re THAT guy.
Some players are very competitive and will do anything to stay in the game. Markus seems like one of those guys. Reminds me of Favre a little.
Obviously you talk basketball and have played very little or you would know that everybody takes elbows in basketball. The term " taking a bow" comes from how common taking an elbow is. Try it sometime.
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It is possible to be affected without being concussed. Markus had 5 second half points in 4 minutes and 16 seconds, so up to that point, the second half adjustments had not affected him. 2-13 after.
At this point you are approaching grassy knoll territory. Until the hard foul at 15:46, Markus had one turnover and missed a three pointer (and took the technical free throws). Two theories as to what happened after half time to Markus: Jordan adjusted or Markus was concussed to the point he was debilitated.
At this point, we know the first is true...and we have a statistical comet trail that other teams out adjust MU at halftime....and that the A teams scheme successfully against Markus. I love Lavin...but he wasn’t a great game changer...but there is a reason he is calling this out.
I await the concussion news.
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Some players are very competitive and will do anything to stay in the game. Markus seems like one of those guys. Reminds me of Favre a little.
Obviously you talk basketball and have played very little or you would know that everybody takes elbows in basketball. The term " taking a bow" comes from how common taking an elbow is. Try it sometime.
Again like I said in another thread if the staff knew he was concussed and they put him out there because Howard convinced them to let him play, that's bad bad bad and shows no concern for the individual. I don't think this happened and its speculation anyway. More likely he was fine.
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Some players are very competitive and will do anything to stay in the game. Markus seems like one of those guys. Reminds me of Favre a little.
Obviously you talk basketball and have played very little or you would know that everybody takes elbows in basketball. The term " taking a bow" comes from how common taking an elbow is. Try it sometime.
Reminder. The Onion is hiring.
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At this point you are approaching grassy knoll territory. Until the hard foul at 15:46, Markus had one turnover and missed a three pointer (and took the technical free throws). Two theories as to what happened after half time to Markus: Jordan adjusted or Markus was concussed to the point he was debilitated.
At this point, we know the first is true...and we have a statistical comet trail that other teams out adjust MU at halftime....and that the A teams scheme successfully against Markus. I love Lavin...but he wasn’t a great game changer...but there is a reason he is calling this out.
I await the concussion news.
I wonder how smart he would be talking if Baldwin had been hammered into the floor and they had gone on to lose the game with Baldwin being totally ineffective.
BTW it isn't that typical for Markus to be shut down in the second half of games.
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Reminder. The Onion is hiring.
Am I missing something??
Oh, I get it......You thought I meant taking a bow like when you curtsy in your drama club.
It's a totally different thing in basketball.
It's what happened to Markus in the Butler game.
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WhoaJoe,
Serious question. What if multiple top recruits want/were promised the green light?
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I wonder how smart he would be talking if Baldwin had been hammered into the floor and they had gone on to lose the game with Baldwin being totally ineffective.
BTW it isn't that typical for Markus to be shut down in the second half of games.
Welcome to the Big East. Jordan protected his player by getting a technical at halftime. Against the seven Level 1 opponents this year, Markus has an Orating of 88.6, yesterday it was 90. Sounds like a pattern. That's Freshman Magic Dawsonesque.
Baldwin had two points at halftime yesterday and 29 after. To me: Occam's Razor and adjustments were made
Or Wojo's staff, including training and medical, is incompetent. To you, even though Markus had a bad turnover and missed a trey up until the non-whistled contact out of half, paid professionals didn't notice any concussion symptoms for the next hour and a half.
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Am I missing something??
Oh, I get it......You thought I meant taking a bow like when you curtsy in your drama club.
It's a totally different thing in basketball.
It's what happened to Markus in the Butler game.
"The desire to be right all the time, push buttons, get the last word in, etc. Just not good... UGH. Embarrassing." --Jams
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WhoaJoe,
Serious question. What if multiple top recruits want/were promised the green light?
They still have to demonstrate proficiency once they arrive, just like Markus did.
Hopefully Marquette has an offense that averages between 80-90 pts a game. That leaves room for several high scoring players.
Since Markus has been playing at Marquette, some people have forgotten that a twenty point game is pretty damn good. I imagine next year will bring many different SOTG winners who scored in the high teens to low twenties.
Try not to imagine this years team. Imagine how next years team will operate.
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Am I missing something??
Oh, I get it......You thought I meant taking a bow like when you curtsy in your drama club.
It's a totally different thing in basketball.
It's what happened to Markus in the Butler game.
This is rich. Do you not recognize you are the very definition of a drama queen?
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Welcome to the Big East. Jordan protected his player by getting a technical at halftime. Against the seven Level 1 opponents this year, Markus has an Orating of 88.6, yesterday it was 90. Sounds like a pattern. That's Freshman Magic Dawsonesque.
Baldwin had two points at halftime yesterday and 29 after. To me: Occam's Razor and adjustments were made
Or Wojo's staff, including training and medical, is incompetent. To you, even though Markus had a bad turnover and missed a trey up until the non-whistled contact out of half, paid professionals didn't notice any concussion symptoms for the next hour and a half.
Ahem. All of those 29 came after Markus was arm-whipped, WWE-style into that chair. Just so you know, players aren't as sharp defensively after they're concussed.
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This is rich. Do you not recognize you are the very definition of a drama queen?
Don't you know you're the definition of someone who talks basketball but has obviously never played it??
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Ahem. All of those 29 came after Markus was arm-whipped, WWE-style into that chair. Just so you know, players aren't as sharp defensively after they're concussed.
Lol...dead on. You have converted me to Whoa’s theory. Koby and Sacar caught the concussion virus too as they were primarily guarding Baldwin. And then it spread to Wojo in his cuddles as he didn’t even know what the score was at the end.
I am digging this theory as my mental bliss has improved now. How big was the MU victory last night again?
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Lol...dead on. You have converted me to Whoa’s theory. Koby and Sacar caught the concussion virus too as they were primarily guarding Baldwin. And then it spread to Wojo in his cuddles as he didn’t even know what the score was at the end.
I am digging this theory as my mental bliss has improved now. How big was the MU victory last night again?
Wojonavirus
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Lol...dead on. You have converted me to Whoa’s theory. Koby and Sacar caught the concussion virus too as they were primarily guarding Baldwin. And then it spread to Wojo in his cuddles as he didn’t even know what the score was at the end.
I am digging this theory as my mental bliss has improved now. How big was the MU victory last night again?
Technically it was +2
We were expected to lose by 6, but only lost by 4, which nets a positive 2. Old school, sweater-vest binary metrics like "wins" are nice and all, but Wojo is thinking big picture here--beat expectations by as large of a margin as you can. He did that last night.
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Lol...dead on. You have converted me to Whoa’s theory. Koby and Sacar caught the concussion virus too as they were primarily guarding Baldwin. And then it spread to Wojo in his cuddles as he didn’t even know what the score was at the end.
I am digging this theory as my mental bliss has improved now. How big was the MU victory last night again?
You're either joking or you're a joke.
Defense is a team effort.
Baldwin went crazy while Marquettes leading scorer was beat up and Butler still barely won at their place.
Maybe we'll get a chance to see how Butler deals with their star player getting hammered into the floor when they play at the Fiserv.
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Technically it was +2
We were expected to lose by 6, but only lost by 4, which nets a positive 2. Old school, sweater-vest binary metrics like "wins" are nice and all, but Wojo is thinking big picture here--beat expectations by as large of a margin as you can. He did that last night.
I honestly can't tell what's real anymore
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You're either joking or you're a joke.
Defense is a team effort.
Baldwin went crazy while Marquettes leading scorer was beat up and Butler still barely won at their place.
Maybe we'll get a chance to see how Butler deals with their star player getting hammered into the floor when they play at the Fiserv.
Everyone who attends Butler at Marquette should be prepared for WhoaJoe "giving a bow," in similar fashion to this memorable moment in MU Basketball history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5I65AxF3oA
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Ahem. All of those 29 came after Markus was arm-whipped, WWE-style into that chair. Just so you know, players aren't as sharp defensively after they're concussed.
Lol...dead on. You have converted me to Whoa’s theory. Koby and Sacar caught the concussion virus too as they were primarily guarding Baldwin. And then it spread to Wojo in his cuddles as he didn’t even know what the score was at the end. I am digging this theory as my mental bliss has improved now. How big was the MU victory last night again?
Wojonavirus
Peak Scoop!
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You may have noticed that Wojo and Markus have a unique relationship.
Markus decides when he plays and when he shoots, and Wojo gets the benefit of exploiting Markus for his scoring and recruiting purposes.
I am a big fan of Markus, and I think he deserves the chance to showcase his skills. Some games he will showcase his faults. I can live with that because this was never going to be "The Year", even if the Hausers had stayed. This year is all about recruiting, and getting Mane is still the number one priority. Markus' ultimate green light may help make that priority a reality.
I am hopeful that this years team makes the tournament and has some success but I'm not so delusional as to think this is a National Championship caliber team. I think Wojo knows that too.
Next years recruits along with this years returning talent will give Marquette the best shot it's had in a long time to make a big splash, especially if Mane decides to commit.
Markus had several chances against Butler to be the hero and failed. I believe it was due to the elbow to the head. Wojo gave Markus those chances knowing the potential costs and benefits. It's not optimum, but it is what it is.
I honestly believe Wojo is focused on the long game and that undoubtedly will affect results in the short term. The Butler game was a perfect example. He's joined at the hip with Markus and like it or not, that's the way this season is going to play out. I can live with that.
You do realize that next year's team will not be anywhere close to as good as this year? Wojo will have to take a huge step up as a coach to get us to the NIT next year.
I'm excited about the incoming talent but Wojo will need 2-3 years to pull them together into a NCAA tourney team. I have no doubt he will, we just need to be patient.
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You do realize that next year's team will not be anywhere close to as good as this year? Wojo will have to take a huge step up as a coach to get us to the NIT next year.
I'm excited about the incoming talent but Wojo will need 2-3 years to pull them together into a NCAA tourney team. I have no doubt he will, we just need to be patient.
If we struggle to make the NIT next season, I will be ready to consider a new coach. It's too early to say for sure but next year's squad looks like a high NIT seed to me at the moment. Add Mane or a talented grad transfer and I see an NCAA team. Add both and we may not see a drop off.