Amaker out at Michigan, let the speculation begin

[tower912]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070317/SPORTS06/70317004

Amaker is out.   I am sure the Maize and blue will be looking for a young coach with a history of building programs and getting administration to pony up to improve facilities.     PRN will be sending TC's resume any minute now.

[spiral97]

PRN will be sending TC's resume any minute now.

now THAT would be fun to watch.. that'd have to be pure torture for PRN to sit there and do nothing but list crean's accomplishments and positive attributes.  Come to think of it, it seems like many posters on this board would find the exercise painful.  That's a shame, really, considering how much of the credit he is owed for bringing our expectations up so high in the first place.

[ozmetal71]

Because then they can ask the beloved Mike Deane and his proven NCAA tournament success and multiple national championships to come back and lead Marquette back.

Seems like we have three groups of anti-Crean posters here: those who were spoiled during the McGuire era, think that the college basketball landscape hasn't changed since we wore the bumblebee uniforms, and expect that Marquette should be a Top 10 team every year, those who are five year-olds with no comprehension of how bad MU was in the 80s and most of the 90s, and trolls who want to come on board to rip on Crean and Marquette.

All you have to do is ask these "fans" who they want as a replacement, and then ask them who would they think would stay past the first year of major success.  They usually have nothing to say after that.

[77ncaachamps]

For the Crean haters, how much would they love to see the MSU-UM rivalry games and Izzo spanking Crean's heiny every year.

For the Crean lovers, one of the worst nightmares that could happen (re: speculation), other than the MSU opening and Miami Heat rumors.

[4everwarriors]

will be. The sun will come up tomorrow. I have full confidence in the Marquette administration that if Crean's kitchen is getting too hot for comfort and he bolts, the Warriors, given their commitment to the basketball program, will have very capable candidates lined up to apply for the job. Wouldn't worry one minute about it.
To carry it farther, Crean isn't going anywhere on his own accord. No university would be crazy enough to pay more sheckles than his current contract and the NBA isn't interested.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I love how all you Crean lovers maintain that him leaving would necessitate a return to the Dukiet years? Give me a break.

[Pakuni]

I love how all you Crean lovers maintain that him leaving would necessitate a return to the Dukiet years? Give me a break.

Please point out where someone said that.
Thanks.

[LastWarrior]

Crean would NOT go to Michigan even if Jesus came down and asked him.

[augoman]

why is everything black/white w/ you guys? can't crean be criticized w/o wanting to can him?  I've yet to see him walk on water and I certainly enjoy taking shots at anybody in his position..., doesn't mean I want him gone- maybe I'd be happy if he'd just learn from his mistakes!

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I love how all you Crean lovers maintain that him leaving would necessitate a return to the Dukiet years? Give me a break.

Please point out where someone said that.
Thanks.

Because then they can ask the beloved Mike Deane and his proven NCAA tournament success and multiple national championships to come back and lead Marquette back.

Close enough.

[ozmetal71]

Crean certainly is not perfect, but I am tired of all these newbies who come out of nowhere when we lose and call for Crean to get canned.

The past few days there has been almost no constructive criticism of Crean, and there have been scores of posts calling for him to be fired.  I'm merely pointing out how a lot of the anti-Crean criticism comes from people who were spoiled under McGuire and also people who liked Deane and have never liked Crean for various reasons.

Again, for you Crean-haters out there, name these great candidates who would be lining up to work at Marquette, and also name those who you think would stay if they have success.  You need to take an objective look at Marquette, our program, and then ask yourself if Marquette could bring in someone who would stay 10+years, build the program, maintain it, and not bolt for another job.

Crean has A LOT to work on, namely figuring out how to run an effective offense for once, and landing bigs who are capable of playing at a D-1 level.  But, I'll take my chances with him than starting all over with a different guy who would most likely leave the first chance a higher-profile job came up.

Its not 1976, Marquette is not the superpower of old.  We are building into a consistent tournament team and a contender in the Big East.  If in two or three years we haven't won another tournament game, then you can call for Crean's head.

[Pakuni]

I love how all you Crean lovers maintain that him leaving would necessitate a return to the Dukiet years? Give me a break.

Please point out where someone said that.
Thanks.

Because then they can ask the beloved Mike Deane and his proven NCAA tournament success and multiple national championships to come back and lead Marquette back.

Close enough.

No it's not. Anyone who likens the Mike Deane era to the Bob Dukiet era, as you seem to be doing, wasn't around for the Bob Dukiet era.

[Norm]

Exactly Pakuni. People dog Deane all day, but he won 100 games faster than any coach in MU's history.

I went to Marquette for the last two years of Dukiet and the first two years of O'Neill. The Dukiet era was the nadir of Marquette basketball. Dukiet was a great guy who was just overwhelmed at MU. He would eat breakfast and lunch with the students in the McCormick dining hall - anyone could go up and talk to him. But the basketball program was a mess.

O'Neill followed and picked up recruiting immensly. He meshed the half-way decent Dukiet guys with his own recruits and became competitive quickly. Once he had his own guys they went to the NCAAs and had the Sweet 16 run with the victory over Kentucky. O'Neill resurrected MU basketball back to a respectable level. He got good recruits and stwabilized the program. His weaknesses were an inability to take any criticism whatsoever and his stand-offishness towards ex-players, alumni, and MU fans in general. He took the first offer to get out of dodge and did nothing at Tennessee and Northwestern. Supposedly, he's going to take a job again in college ball (can't remember the school he is rumored to be going to). Although I don't care about it at all, lots of people were offfended by his mouth - his swearing made sailors blush.

Dean took over for O'Neill (after practically taking the Dayton job the week before). He came to MU after taking Sienna to 2 NITs and 2 NCAAs the previous 4 years. Deane was a great X and Os coach who had trouble recruting, compared to O'Neill. He got some good players, but missed out on too many to keep us up at an NCAA level every year. He had some great wins and had good record against Cincinnati, Louisville, Wisconsin and others. He made the grave sin of saying that MU fans shouldn't be unhappy with NITs and that MU wouldn't make the NCAAs every year (or something to that effect). Like O'Neill, Deane had colorful language and he also had a rep for having a wandering eye. His great downfall was recruiting, but he was a great in-game coach, especially compared to O'Neill and Dukiet (that's why some MU fans liked Deane). He had propbaly worn out his welcome by the time he was let go, but his players had nothing but praise for him when he was fired and he handled the Lovette situation well. While I liked Deane as a coach, I wasn't shocked or upset when the administration decided to make a change.

Tom Crean came in and brought some much need energy to the program. Finally, a coach who embraced the legacy of Al McGuirre and reached out to fans and alumni. He is a great coach for reaching out to MU fans and for seemingly loving the school and the program. He is the best PR coach since McGuirre and seems to like Marquette. Overall, he has had a good 8 year run, with multiple post season appearances and the 2003 Final Four run. He is a better recruiter than Dukiet, O'Neill and Deane, but he still hasn't landed the great big man that all of us lust for. Still, he's landed Merritt, Wade, Diener, Novak, James, Matthews and McNeal. Unfortunately, he's coached at the same time that UW is actually a nasketballe power, something other MU coaches haven't had to compete with. If Steve Yoder was still coaching UW, Marquette would have gotten a lot more in-state guys who ended up going to UW (especially the big guys). Crean brings tons of energy, and his team reflects that. However, every year the team tends to fade down the stretch and players get hurt. Outside of the 2003 run, his post season record is not good. While he brings in 2-3 good players over a 3-year recruiting span, the other players tend to be projects, and some don't pan out.

Overall, I think MU has benefited greatly with Crean as coach. I wish he didn't have so many transfers and I wish he'd land more quality big men. But, we are a competitive team who can beat any other team on any given day, which is much better than we were 10-15 years ago.

I hope Crean stays, but if he goes, I think he's left the program in much better shape then he inherited.

Just my 10 cents.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I love how all you Crean lovers maintain that him leaving would necessitate a return to the Dukiet years? Give me a break.

Please point out where someone said that.
Thanks.

Because then they can ask the beloved Mike Deane and his proven NCAA tournament success and multiple national championships to come back and lead Marquette back.

Close enough.

No it's not. Anyone who likens the Mike Deane era to the Bob Dukiet era, as you seem to be doing, wasn't around for the Bob Dukiet era.

You're right. I was more interested in sand boxes during the Dukiet era. However, the point is that some seem to suggest that those who call for a changing of the guard would just as soon like to see Marquette return to more abysmal eras, and in fact that it might be guaranteed if that were to happen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Warrior07, I think people that have been around the block a little bit are scratching their head why you would want to change a coach that has taken the team to the NCAAs 4 of the last 6 years (likely 5 of the last 6 if Diener didn't break his hand).

Why on earth would you change...who would you bring in (who would WANT to come here knowing if you go to the NCAA 4 of 6 years and one is a FINAL FOUR you will get canned).

Let's look at the big picture.  Why would ANYONE want to come here if going to 4 NCAAs in 6 years (including a Final Four), graduating your players, breaking attendance records, no NCAA violations, etc, etc = being replaced.

NO ONE

The fact that this was even brought up is beyond silly.  Enough already.   This instant gratification B.S. has got to stop.

Stability is the key long term and almost every great pro or college program has had stability.  The program finally has stability and a few knuckleheads want to turn it over because we played a bad game on national tv without our best player.  Oh the horror.   

[MarquetteDano]

no pun intended!  Great synopsis.

[classof70]

Interestingly, I've been in an email "discussion" with two former McGuire players, both of whom think very little of Crean and would like to see him gone.  Though I'm puzzled by their views, I think there are some older alums and players who have anti-Crean views

[Pardner]

Crean isn't going anywhere, let alone U of M.  First, his curent and future pipeline of players has its better years coming up.  Why give that up to start again after all he built here, including The Al?  It won't be for money.  Second, he had hard enough time playing Izzo in the NCAA's, let along twice a year (or more).  Third, football in King there.

On the older alumni, Crean and the other coaches have to face the Al legend.  Not easy.  Crean is a control freak, and he rightly says I am building my own time here.  This can be alienating, but this shadow has sunk other coaches like Majerus, KO, etc.  He is a 'good to great' investment.  He has a lot to learn but he has built a program the right way that consistently wins and makes a lot of money for the school.  A new AD may change things, but why leave or get rid of him now?  It makes no sense.

[mu_hilltopper]

Chicos, I just gotta ask.

Nearly every poster here talks about the situation now,  the trend, and the future.  IF the trend continues, IF we lose early next year with our entire team back. 

IF all our guys stay for 2 more years and we have 2 early exits.  What then?  Will 6 of 8 NCAAs and 5 one and dones be enough?  Is it enough to stay at the "Top 64" level forever?  Or do you pull the plug at some point, and what point is that?  I'm asking.

It's all about the what-ifs.  And we'll see.  None of us want to have this discussion next year.  (Well, except for classof70's Al McGuire player friends.)  I want Crean to succeed.  I want him to be our coach for another decade. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I thought this thread was started with a discussion of the idea of Crean possibly going to Michigan? It was not about getting rid of him. That would be ridiculous. There is no question he's improved the Marquette program. It's indisputable.

My opinion is simply that, if he left, Marquette would be just fine. I don't know what Mike Deane and Bob Dukiet have to do with the price of tea in China. I don't know what the fact the he's gone to 4 NCAAs in the past 6 years means. We're talking about if he left for another job. Not if he got fired!! That ain't gonna happen, nor should it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hilltopper, if we lose in the first round next year then we lose in the first round next year.

If we were Duke, Kansas, UCLA it would be different, but as hard as hell as it is to get good players to come to MU in the first place (cold weather, academics, lack of fluff majors, coeds, etc, etc), I think advocating a change even if we lost in the first round next year and the year after that would be really dangerous on so so so many levels.

There is a reason we went 25 years with coaches using MU as a stepping stone.  Now you have one that is successful and wants to be here (CRITICAL PART OF THE EQUATION) and I think if you show a guy the door like that, you're back into the cycle again.  It was sad that MU became a stepping stone school for so long, now we have someone that doesn't treat it like that.

If Crean left, would we get a good coach...probably.  Would he likely want to be here long term....probably not.  Deane was looking to get out.  O'Neill did get out.  Majerus did get out.  Dukiet was a joke.

And if we were to lose 3 straight tournament games...yeah it would be disappointing.  Did KU fire their coach after that happened?  No.  As an AD you have to see the BIG PICTURE and too many people here are not seeing that.  You have to understand what it would mean to fire a coach that had gone to the NCAAs 5 times in 7 years.  You would have to understand what the ramifications are.  I've been there, I've seen them.  AD's and University Presidents have better have a ROCK SOLID SLAM DUNK 100% plan if you are ever going to go down that path and 95% of schools don't because they can't get the guy they want (though they think they can get).

Yeah, the boards next year would be a haven for folks to bitch a fit .... so what.  Judging a season based solely on what you do in March is wrong.  It should be a heavy portion of it, no question but some are putting 100% stock into it which is ridiculous.  Most AD's and University Presidents realize this...thank God.

[4everwarriors]

he gets a free pass just because you don't want to be labelled as a stepping stone program? If the University continues their commitment to the BB program ($$$), this job is hardly looked upon by coaches as a stepping stone anymore. If you don't believe  me, check out the line-up of coaches who will be interested when the job opens up. You'll be surprised at some of the names.

[77ncaachamps]

Enough of the Crean bashing. Back to the speculation.

"I predict...Todd Lickliter of Butler."

- Not a young guy (Tony Bennett), not an old guy (John Beilein).
- Can stay on as coach for an extended period of time (due to age and situation).
- Experienced, especially in the tourney.
- Midwest ties.

[Pakuni]

he gets a free pass just because you don't want to be labelled as a stepping stone program? If the University continues their commitment to the BB program ($$$), this job is hardly looked upon by coaches as a stepping stone anymore. If you don't believe  me, check out the line-up of coaches who will be interested when the job opens up. You'll be surprised at some of the names.

Since you want us to believe you're in the know, please enlighten us on the subject.
Thanks.