After further review...

[CoachKJ]

I know that Crean wants to win as much as anybody, and I think that is his greatest strength and weakness.  His hard work, positive energy and enthusiasm has contributed significantly to the program.  At the same time, his stubborness, paranoia, and closemindness has resulted in some setbacks.  This is who he is, take it or leave it.  On the whole, I'll take it (especially considering I'm not paying for him).

Here's the recap:
Positives:
Enthusiasm for program among students/alumni
Increased attendance
Increased national profile

Negatives:
Transfers
Laying eggs in big games (Kansas, Tulsa, Mich. St., etc)
Woeful offensive sets

Thoughts? 

[NavinRJohnson]

A friend put it o me this way today...

Crean has lifted the program to a new level.  We are competing in the Big East.  We are in the National spotlight. We draw huge crowds for most games.  That is where he shines.

The next step is to be a power in March.  Small adjustments, but is he man enough or smart enough to do it?

I agree with those thoughts. We are doing very good during the season, and financially to be sure, but the reality is, March is truly what its all about. We are damn close. I think he is smart enough and man enough to take a look in the mirror and figure out what he needs to do to make it happen.

[NateDoggMarq]

Great post, which I think would get ripped over on Doddsys board but it speaks the truth

We are not Xavier and We are Not Creighton, we should not be happy at this level

[77ncaachamps]

I agree somewhat.

That whole "man enough" thing is pure machismo speak.

We need recruits. BADLY.

Not the under the radar guys all the time, but the freakishly athletic and long big men who just attack the boards with a voracious appetite for the ball.

Right now we have the guard play to last a few more seasons.

We got to get rid of the big lunks who just eat up space and do nothing much.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think if you're going to say "laying eggs in big games" then you should include the "big games" in which eggs were not layed.

For example, Kentucky, Missouri, Holy Cross, Pittsburgh.  For example, nationally televised wins, wins over ranked teams, etc.

Yes, we have lost some big games and we have won some big games.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I actually think we did lay an egg against Holy Cross it's just that we didn't lose.

[NYWarrior]

I actually think we did lay an egg against Holy Cross it's just that we didn't lose.

c'mon.  enjoy a win.  wins in the tourney are tough. ya think Oregon laid an egg today?

enjoy the good stuff

[CTWarrior]

I think if you're going to say "laying eggs in big games" then you should include the "big games" in which eggs were not layed.

For example, Kentucky, Missouri, Holy Cross, Pittsburgh.  For example, nationally televised wins, wins over ranked teams, etc.

Yes, we have lost some big games and we have won some big games.

Man, Chico's, I have to move to California and get some of that sun.  It must be great to have that relentlessly rosy outlook without pharmaceutical assistance.  

Anyway, Crean's BIG postseason wins are Pittsburgh and Kentucky.  Well, Missouri, too, I guess, because they were a top 25 quality team.  A 3 beating a 14 is not a big win.  There were many bigger wins during the season that got us the 3 seed.  

Take away the 2003 NCAAs and Crean's postseason record is pretty terrible, including conference tournaments.  These are the games most people consider big games.  But, 2003 did happen and he has a lot of big in-season wins.  It depends on your definition of big wins.

[CoachKJ]

Chicos-all those big wins were the 2003 Wade Final Four run.  Not to take anything away, but the laying of eggs in other ones more than neutralizes those wins.  But again, its a mixed bag, and on the whole, a better one.

[Pardner]

TC is our program.  He wants to be here and he has won consistently.  He has attracted talent from all over the country and put MU BB on the national scene.  His teams play hard, his athletes do well in school--or they are out.  He is well-respected by his peers, the press and the university.   Not too many coaches ever make it to a F4.  Good college coaches win year in and year out.  He realizes BB in king at MU, and he delivers.  It is a good match.

To get to the next level, he needs to make adjustments.  He is becoming a much better game coach.  He clearly outcoached Coach K , Knight and Pitino (at the away LU game this year) in games this year.   But, I feel he needs to coach better to match-ups (vs. his system) and to develop a post-up offense.  Even if he doesn't land the bigs that we all want, players like Fitz, McNeal  and Hayward need to post-up more often.  Novak finally learned this his senior year.  High picks with Kinsella worked against Pitt at home to free the guards--but we didn't see this again.  Every team we play did/will be throwing a 2-3 match-up at us.  He should know how to beat this 'd' as MSU invented it.

As I posted before, he needs an in season pace to his practice intensity.  We always start the year hot as the players are in top shape vs. other teams , we hit a bump around break as he burns them in practice, we adjust in the second week in Jan for a month when school restarts...then he seems to burn them out at the end of the year--as they clearly are flat like yesterday and during the first half last year vs. Bama (and most years as pointed out).  It seems like we have our flatest games of the year in the BET and that first tourney game (even in the F4 year we were flat in game 1).  He needs to rethink this.

Lastly, is this quote from him in the JS really our biggest problems?  I would have used the "o" word in each of our three biggest problems.  This makes me wonder if he really sees where he needs to adjust his approach.

"There's been three areas all year long that, when we have been in a struggle or where we have been inconsistent, these three areas show up: post defense, pick and roll defense and our talking," Crean said. "All three of those showed up in the wrong way tonight."

[ChicosBailBonds]

I just don't want to be miserable like some people (not saying you are).  I know how damn hard it is to win those games as a program.  Hasn't Kansas lost three straight in the NCAAs?  Duke just lost first round yesterday.  IU lost 3 or 4 straight in the 1990's.  Virginia made it to the second round for the first time in 12 years yesterday.  The list is endless.

And yes, I consider post season games absolutely huge.  I also consider many other games big games as well, because if you don't win those other big games you don't even make the post season.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I just don't want to be miserable like some people (not saying you are).  I know how damn hard it is to win those games as a program.  Hasn't Kansas lost three straight in the NCAAs?  Duke just lost first round yesterday.  IU lost 3 or 4 straight in the 1990's.  Virginia made it to the second round for the first time in 12 years yesterday.  The list is endless.

And yes, I consider post season games absolutely huge.  I also consider many other games big games as well, because if you don't win those other big games you don't even make the post season.

Good point, Chicos.

But consider:

Indiana had a coach with three national titles.

Duke's coach has, I think, two national titles (maybe 3) and countless Final Fours. The also lost a first round game yesterday for the first time in God knows how many years.

Virginia has been through three or four coaches since Terry Holland.
 
Bill Self at Kansas is about ready to be lynched if he doesn't have a good tournament.

Of course there are examples you can pull out of your hat for everything. But most of the people on this board are watching Marquette very closely. We flat out stunk yesterday...no ifs ands or buts about it. We STUNK in the first half last year. We STUNK the year before against Western Michigan.

I have no idea what the problem is.

One thing I've been thinking of is a bit of OVER preparation...information overload for these kids. By the time they take the floor it's paralysis by analysis. Who knows? But it's something. Those first halves are really something else. I think I even read that Crean used the word embarrassing.

[SqueallyDRyan]

NateDawgMarq, you must not know much about Creighton basketball if you think being unlike them is a blessing. They also are in the top 20 in the country in attendence, play in a solid conference, and make the tournament almost every year (5 of last 7)

[NYWarrior]

NateDawgMarq, you must not know much about Creighton basketball if you think being unlike them is a blessing. They also are in the top 20 in the country in attendence, play in a solid conference, and make the tournament almost every year (5 of last 7)

Creighton has a good program, yes......but the Big East is a great conference (the Valley is fine), MU has been in the tourney 4 outta 6 yrs always in better leagues (and has a Final Four in there), and the Blue Jays are usually closer to 30 in attendance than 20 (MU is usually top 12).

Again, its not a slight, but Creighton is not a 'comp' for Marquette.  Heck, Altman has been trying to get outta there for years (KState, Iowa, Mizzou etal)

[ChicosBailBonds]

PRN, I could give many other examples.


We won 24 games, went to the NCAAs with 3 sophs, 1 fresh and 1 junior.  I like our chances next year if we stay healthy. 

Maybe my perspective comes from attending MU from 1987-1992....perhaps the worst years of MU hoops in our history.  One winning season I believe.

Now we've been to 4 NCAAs in 6 years including a Final Four and people bitch.  I just find it comical, especially when you look at the makeup of the team.

Everything in life needs perspective....

[NYWarrior]

Maybe my perspective comes from attending MU from 1987-1992....perhaps the worst years of MU hoops in our history.  One winning season I believe.

I think u had two winning seasons.......the 1989-90 season (NIT loss at Penn State in TSmith's senior year) and the 91-92 season (winning season but no post-season birth).

Hoops sucked a$$ when we were there, Chicos.

[NavinRJohnson]

Lastly, is this quote from him in the JS really our biggest problems?  I would have used the "o" word in each of our three biggest problems.  This makes me wonder if he really sees where he needs to adjust his approach.

I think he is absolutely right. We were very inconsistent defensively this year. When we play good D, we turn it into points and we win. When we play bad D, we lose.  Lat night, the defense was pathetic.

The bottom line is, I think everyone would agree that its time for the the program to take another step forward. I don't think ayone involved would consider last night acceptable on any level. Reasonable individuals can argue all day long what its going to take to do that, but when you get right down to it, everyone from Coach Crean on down is going to have to play a role if its going to happen. Does that involve recruiting? Yes. Does Crean maybe need to make some adjustments to his approach to coaching, preparation, etc.? You bet. Do the players need to step up? Hell yeah. Will it happen? I guess we'll find out.

[Harrison]

We got F'd that 91-92 year.  How do you beat a top 20 Depaul team in the conference tourney, go a couple games over .500 and not make the NIT's?  We had some solid win's that year.  Shows how far the program had fallen.  Tony's senior year was fun too.  Loved that team Ty, Trevor, Tony.  I would give my left nut for a Ty Baldwin on this year's team.  Except the backcourt violation agsinst Wisconsin was like it happened in slow motion, everyone could see it coming, that was absolutely as painful as they come loss.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're right, we did have that one year where we hosted the NCAA Tournament but didn't earn a NIT bid.  The old NIT Snub.  Again, just shows you the perspective from that time period.


Wow was there some bad basketball in there during those years.  And remember, that was as an independent and against the MCC competition.  I remember getting up for games at Evansville.

Many people really have ZERO historical perspective at all where we were compared to where we are now.

Now, having said all that...if we were to lose in the first round next year....it would be quite troubling.  There will be a lot of pressure on that team to win, no question about it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Harrison...write it down....I agree with EVERY SINGLE WORD of that post.

 

[NYWarrior]

Wow was there some bad basketball in there during those years.  And remember, that was as an independent and against the MCC competition.  I remember getting up for games at Evansville.

Those titanic tilts against Chaka Chandler's Evansville Aces........wow, those were the days.

(vomit)

[Pardner]

I think he is absolutely right. We were very inconsistent defensively this year. When we play good D, we turn it into points and we win. When we play bad D, we lose.  Lat night, the defense was pathetic.

MSU scored only 61 points--with their best player held to 12...hardly the reason we looked clueless on offense, standing around...or why we didn't score a deuce in the first half.  We struggled all year in every game against the 2-3.  How about pinching the wing in to pick to allow DJ to turn the corner?  How about running Fitz through on a post-up?  Or throwing over the zone instead of only working the perimeter?  Or running Ooze off the baseline for a face-up baseline short jump shot?  How about overloading the match up zone to create a space for a three with a quick reverse? The lack of an offensive concept that worked against the 2-3 was a problem in our losses all year, reflected in our miserable shooting %.  I saw five guys standing still yesterday.  I will say this is where we missed McNeal as he is adept at driving to the hoop and either dissing or getting a shot off (or a t/o as is often the case)--creating holes in the zone.   Talent can solve part of this, but so can a decent concept focused on match-ups.  It was lacking all year and was our #1 problem. 

That said, we did win with our defense--which is TC's bread and butter.  Even playing smaller, it was amazing we did so well rebounding.  And, our guards created a ton of deflections, turnovers.  Post D was a killer, I agree.

[Thomas' Danish Delight]

Negatives:
Transfers

Sorry...can some one catch me up to date with this?  Who's leaving us?!

[chapman]

Negatives:
Transfers

Sorry...can some one catch me up to date with this?  Who's leaving us?!

Nobody yet.  He's talking about Karon Bradley, Dameon Mason, James Matthews, Brandon Bell, Carlton Christian, and Ryan Amoroso.  While not all of these players were the most talented, it's hard to build a solid team when you need to keep reloading and it doesn't speak well for the coach or help him with future recruiting to have his players leaving the program.

[Big Papi]

One thing I've been thinking of is a bit of OVER preparation...information overload for these kids. By the time they take the floor it's paralysis by analysis. Who knows? But it's something. Those first halves are really something else. I think I even read that Crean used the word embarrassing.

Crean and Izzo have very similar philosophies.  Including thick playbooks and lots of preparation and yet I don't see Izzo's teams having problems when it comes to the postseason.  The problem this year was very simple.  We didn't have any interior post scoring and we only had 2 players worthy of taking any 3s this year.  Any team that has the players to run an effective 2-3 zone that limits our penetration and our chances of winning diminish.  having said that we still won a lot of games with those deficiencies.