MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TVDirector on May 03, 2007, 09:57:41 PM
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New Saint Louis coach Rick Majerus signs 6-foot-7 juco player
New Saint Louis coach Rick Majerus signs 6-foot-7 juco player
May 3, 2007
ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Two days after being introduced as the new Saint Louis coach, Rick Majerus announced his first recruit.
The Billikens said late Wednesday that 6-foot-7 forward Barry Eberhardt, who averaged 17.4 points and 6.2 rebounds per game in junior college last season at Coffeyville College in Kansas, had signed with Saint Louis.
Majerus replaced Brad Soderberg, who was fired last month.
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Anyone else think it would be nice to start a home-n-home deal with SLU? There's the Catholic connection, the former conference mates connection, and now Majerus. I'd like it for purely selfish reasons - Milwaukee is just too damn far from STL to make more than a couple games a year.
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I hope Rick knows better than to go the JUCO route. But he knows there's a lot of pressure on him to win soon to fill up that building.
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That is not necessarily correct. The JUCO route can be very affective. If nothing else our own Al McGuire proved that. The problem MU has faced under Crean was we have never really signed a top rated JUCO. We have had transfer issues and then Crean has been forced to go the JUCO route or has signed the 100th rated JUCO prospect. The talent level falls off very quickly. If you are signing the top guys that's one thing. If you are recruiting the underrecruited unsigned guys in April that a whole other story, or if you miss on that guy and then sign his teammate, ala Lott and Blackledge....yikes. Mu's problem is we have attempted to fill holes of need with these types. Those guys should be 12th man's not need fillers. Need fillers need to be top 20 rated JUCO's ala Marcus jackson.
Where this SLU recruit is rated or where he will fall on the depth chart is unnow to me , just addressing the MU situation.
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I hope Rick knows better than to go the JUCO route. But he knows there's a lot of pressure on him to win soon to fill up that building.
SLU had many scholarships left for next season. They are desperate for any 4 or 5 help they can get for next season. They don't even have enough bodies for practice. They have two more years of two high caliber players, and one year left of a solid role player and needed to added someone for size, rebounding, inside play.
Majerus isn't going to be flooding the roster annually with tons of jucos. SLU has a chance with a couple of good returning players,....to try to win next year.
Majerus has never had a losing season...400 plus wins...I think he knows what he is doing.
Porter Moser was recruiting that kid for a while at Illinois St and that is why he was ready to go to SLU so quickly.
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If you recall, this is how Rick became 29-4 at ball state
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Harrison, if I remember correctly (and I do), none of the key players on our 1977 team were JUCOs. In fact, the only JUCOs I can remember of note from 1969 on were Bob Lackey and Ric Cobb. Chones, Meminger, Thompson, Bo, Butch, Whitehead, Lucas, Allie, Brell, Tatum were all MU recruits.
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Harrison, if I remember correctly (and I do), none of the key players on our 1977 team were JUCOs. In fact, the only JUCOs I can remember of note from 1969 on were Bob Lackey and Ric Cobb. Chones, Meminger, Thompson, Bo, Butch, Whitehead, Lucas, Allie, Brell, Tatum were all MU recruits.
Was Boylan a JUCO? I don't remember Whitehead a 4 year player either.
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Was Boylan a JUCO? I don't remember Whitehead a 4 year player either.
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Boylan was a transfer from Assumption College...came to MU via Dean Smith since UNC did not take transfers. Ironic that Jim then led MU to the championship over UNC. Jay Whitehead was a JUCO.
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while originally from Illinois, played at Saddleback in California before coming to the Warriors.
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Those were the days that MU (Al/Hank) would have a player go JUCO for a year or two and then to MU. Whitehead was one of those players they "stashed" away for a year or so. Whitehead came to MU as a Sophomore.
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Anyone else think it would be nice to start a home-n-home deal with SLU? There's the Catholic connection, the former conference mates connection, and now Majerus. I'd like it for purely selfish reasons - Milwaukee is just too damn far from STL to make more than a couple games a year.
TC does not like coaching against his friends. I kind of doubt a home and home will happen.
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Sam Worthen was a very nice JUCO for MU.
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Lloyd Walton was a JUCO
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If you are signing the top guys that's one thing. If you are recruiting the underrecruited unsigned guys in April that a whole other story, or if you miss on that guy and then sign his teammate, ala Lott and Blackledge....yikes.
Actually Lott was a JUCO All-American. I think it is pretty obvious by the "All-American" that he was indeed one of the top talents at the Junior College level, we just got unlucky and had him never really materialize at the DI level.
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That is not necessarily correct. The JUCO route can be very affective. If nothing else our own Al McGuire proved that. The problem MU has faced under Crean was we have never really signed a top rated JUCO. We have had transfer issues and then Crean has been forced to go the JUCO route or has signed the 100th rated JUCO prospect. The talent level falls off very quickly. If you are signing the top guys that's one thing. If you are recruiting the underrecruited unsigned guys in April that a whole other story, or if you miss on that guy and then sign his teammate, ala Lott and Blackledge....yikes. Mu's problem is we have attempted to fill holes of need with these types. Those guys should be 12th man's not need fillers. Need fillers need to be top 20 rated JUCO's ala Marcus jackson.
Where this SLU recruit is rated or where he will fall on the depth chart is unnow to me , just addressing the MU situation.
Lott was a JUCO All-American and I believe Marcus Jackson was honorable mention.
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thanks for reiterating what i said a minute before you ;)
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Kinsella was also an All-American.
The big thing here is what division JUCO ranking they recived. Kinsella was a NJCAA First Team All-American.
Marcus was a 2nd team JUCO All-American.
Lott was a 2nd team JUCO All-American.
I don't know how they all shake down, but Lott was just as highly reguarded coming out as Marcus.
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thanks for reiterating what i said a minute before you ;)
You obviously type faster than I.
;D
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TC's mistake with JUCO's is he signs them late to fill holes or to fill the last schollie----AL sometimes made it an early objective to sign a particular JUCO.
Rick is doing the same thing here (sign JUCO's late)----but he's forced to do it this year!
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Anyone else think it would be nice to start a home-n-home deal with SLU? There's the Catholic connection, the former conference mates connection, and now Majerus. I'd like it for purely selfish reasons - Milwaukee is just too damn far from STL to make more than a couple games a year.
I do! I'm starting at SLU Law School in the fall and as such will not be able to renew my season tickets!!!
Sign the deal!!! >:(
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Thanks for making many of my points. As Murf stated if you target a top JUCO early in the process and get top flight guys ala Cincinati in the Huggins era that is one thing. But to then say Kinsella and Lott were all americans in rediculous!! MJax was a highly touted recruit who actually signed with Georgia during their brief resurrection under Harrick. Lott and Kinsella and Blackledge were underrecruited guys that had no offers from programs anywhere near the level of MU. Crean took a flyer on them. Again if they were to fill the 11th or 12th man roles no big deal, but we had/have dire need in the paint. Also, to address the All-american baloney there are numerous different divisions of JUCO and they name many all-americans and honorable all-americans etc. much of what i would call "resume' stuffing" the real question is how highly were they rated and those three were not rated highly at all, in fact the bottom line is they were mid major or low D1 recruits at best. Three of them on the roster at once killed our bench. Injuries or fouls and our goose was cooked...see Providence, MSU, ND etc.
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But to then say Kinsella and Lott were all americans in rediculous!! MJax was a highly touted recruit who actually signed with Georgia during their brief resurrection under Harrick. Lott and Kinsella and Blackledge were underrecruited guys that had no offers from programs anywhere near the level of MU.
Ridiculous? You either are or aren't an All American. It's a designation. Those guys were All-Americans, whether you like it or not...they earned those honors.
Don't backtrack because you were wrong. If you want to say they didn't pan out or weren't that good, fine. But they were All-Americans. That is a statement of fact.
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Chicos -- take a look at the banner in the Al McGuire Center that lists Marquette's "All Americans." I'd say MU is not exactly being truthful about who is an "All American." For example, Dwyane Wade WAS an all-american. Travis Diener was not. Roney Eford was not. Matter of fact, I think they've got McIlvaine listed as a former All American, which he wasn't.
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Chicos -- take a look at the banner in the Al McGuire Center that lists Marquette's "All Americans." I'd say MU is not exactly being truthful about who is an "All American." For example, Dwyane Wade WAS an all-american. Travis Diener was not. Roney Eford was not. Matter of fact, I think they've got McIlvaine listed as a former All American, which he wasn't.
I'd have to agree. "Honorable Mention" is just that, the honor is that you are mentioned, but your were not on the All-America team. I think that unless you were on one of the All-America teams, you aren't an "All-American."
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How was I back tracking because I was wrong?! As others have stated "Honorable mention all-american" is similar to bein on the "who's who list". there are so many different divisions of JUCO that simply defending Creans recruits by saying they were All-american of some order is ludicrous. They were primarily recruited by non D1 schools yet Mu steps in and swipes them up to fill major needs. My point then and now is they are not capable of filling anything but the 12th man role, unfortunately we had 3 of them. Mjax was highly recruited and an Al-american at the highest JUCO level his play reflected that ....Lott, Kinsella, and Blackledge were no where near that level and their play reflected it as well. Avenues...you are dead on i love it when i see a player was a HS all-american honorable mention...in other words someone chose to nominate that person along with 15,000 other nominees. Fill out the form and you are all-american (nominee..shhhh).
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Chicos -- take a look at the banner in the Al McGuire Center that lists Marquette's "All Americans." I'd say MU is not exactly being truthful about who is an "All American." For example, Dwyane Wade WAS an all-american. Travis Diener was not. Roney Eford was not. Matter of fact, I think they've got McIlvaine listed as a former All American, which he wasn't.
Oh Good Christ...now it's a Marquette conspiracy. NEWSFLASH, Marquette doesn't annoint these players All-Americans. The NJCAA does along with various services (AP, UPI, Street & Smith, Sporting News, etc). How on earth is MU "not being exactly truthful". You either ARE an All-American or you are NOT by earning such a distinction. These guys aren't All-Americans because MU says they are, it means they EARNED the designation.
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And you are 100% INCORRECT on your assertion of other players. If you make an All-American list you are an All-American and it is resported that way by EVERY SCHOOL IN AMERICA. So in the 1970's if you made the Playboy All-American designee, then a school would list you as an All-American.
As an example, for NCAA football the following All-American lists are "recognized" by the NCAA.
Associated Press, American Football Coaches Association, Football Writers Association of America, The Sporting News, and the Walter Camp Football Foundation (WCFF) to determine consensus All-Americans.
Yet it's possible to be on the Sporting News list and not the AP list....doesn't matter, you're deemed an All-American if you make EITHER list.
No different in basketball. So this stuff about MU not being honest about it....good Lord. I think you're arguing whether they are FIRST TEAM ALL-Americans which, of course, none of these JUCOs were. Nor was Travis Diener or Jim MacIlvaine "FIRST TEAM ALL-AMERICANS" or "Consensus All-Americans'....but MU isn't claiming that either.