Author Topic: Poll: 20Ks or Perfect Game (Read 12836 times)

muhoosier260 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2009, 10:29:19 PM »

Buehrle's or whoever's perfect game, i don't really think its that close. they are both feats of strength, but the perfect game is perfect, can't do much better than that

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #26 on:** July 28, 2009, 08:01:51 AM »

wonder if we should add two grand slams in one game to the poll...

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:22:47 AM »

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 28, 2009, 08:01:51 AM

wonder if we should add two grand slams in one game to the poll...

It's more rare than a perfect game but not as rare as a 20 strikeout game.

DJO's Pump Fake · « **Reply #28 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:40:57 AM »

Perfect is perfect....nothing is better

MU B2002 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:12:11 AM »

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/190635-ron-neccai-27-strikeouts-in-nine-inning-game

But this is pretty close.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #30 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:09:25 PM »

Quote from: warrior55 on July 28, 2009, 10:40:57 AM

Perfect is perfect....nothing is better

As a team, yes...as an individual, no. There's a reason why in 10+ years of baseball 20 strikeouts has happened 4 times yet perfect games have happened 4X as much.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:26:03 PM »

Buehrle just had ordinary stuff that day. The balls all just happened to be hit to someone. Wood had sickening stuff and one of the six batted balls hit off a fielders glove.

I think it all comes down to luck thus I give the nod to the guy with amazing stuff: Wood.

I don't want to shortchange the perfecto, I just think the 20Ks is more impressive.

wadesworld · « **Reply #32 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:29:54 PM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 28, 2009, 12:26:03 PM

Buehrle just had ordinary stuff that day.

Uhhhhhhhhh...ummmmmmm...

🏀 · « **Reply #33 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:53:11 PM »

Quote from: wadesworld on July 28, 2009, 12:29:54 PM

Uhhhhhhhhh...ummmmmmm...

Care to refute it? Did you watch the performance? No, you didn't.

MB even said himself that he didn't even feel like he pitched his best, but hit balls found fielders.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #34 on:** July 28, 2009, 01:48:52 PM »

Quote from: marqptm on July 28, 2009, 12:53:11 PM

Care to refute it? Did you watch the performance? No, you didn't.

MB even said himself that he didn't even feel like he pitched his best, but hit balls found fielders.

I watched the last 2+ innings. He was good, not great. That's the thing, to pitch a perfect game you don't have to be dominant...in fact, you can be good and lucky. To strike out 20 guys in a game, you have to be dominant (luck isn't going to get it done).

🏀 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 28, 2009, 02:05:53 PM »

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 28, 2009, 01:48:52 PM

I watched the last 2+ innings. He was good, not great. That's the thing, to pitch a perfect game you don't have to be dominant...in fact, you can be good and lucky. To strike out 20 guys in a game, you have to be dominant (luck isn't going to get it done).

Agreed.

I watched the MB perfect game replay the night of the event, and it was a great watch. Unfortunately, I knew the outcome, but it was still very exciting. Everyone from MB to the team to the manager's defensive positioning all deserve credit for the outcome.

dwaderoy2004 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 28, 2009, 02:36:42 PM »

this isn't about luck, or dominance. it's about impressive. i would bet if you asked major league pitchers which they would rather have on their resume, a perfect game or a 20 k day, most would say a perfect game. a perfect game is the ultimate prize for a pitcher. it's what you strive for whenever you take the mound...27 up, 27 down, by any means necessary. If the question was who was more dominant, then sure, Kerry Wood wins. But a perfect game is a more impressive pitching achievement.

NYWarrior · « **Reply #37 on:** July 28, 2009, 03:01:57 PM »

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 28, 2009, 12:09:25 PM

As a team, yes...as an individual, no. There's a reason why in 10+ years of baseball 20 strikeouts has happened 4 times yet perfect games have happened 4X as much.

Sure there's a reason why -- players swing and miss more now than ever before. In the last 25 years the K/AB ratio of MLB players has spiked to unprecedented levels.

Hitters today are not afraid to K regularly while their predecessors were...players today strikeout at rates never before seen in the history game. MLB.com reported that AL batters "fanned a record 14,925 times in 2008, an increase of 35 from a 2007 total that had been a record. The National League also set a new mark in 2008, with 17,959 punch-outs. AL teams have averaged 1,000 strikeouts per club 10 times in history, while NL clubs have hit that mark 13 times. All of those occurrences have been in the past 13 years." Individually the figures are more acute -- 8 of the top 10 single season strikeout victims in MLB history happened within the last 9 years (and soon enough, all 10 will be with guys like Cust and Howard taking hacks). In fact 18 of the 'top 20' individual strikeout seasons happened in the last 23 years. The pitchers love it, just look at the list of starters with 2,000Ks or more -- the list is heavily weighted to the last 25 yrs (an era when innings pitched have gone down).

Also any pitching performance is not completely an individual effort. That is of course unless the pitcher is Bugs Bunny -- the only pitcher I knew who also called games and served as his own catcher, not to mention covering the other seven positions on the field. Kerry Wood was no Bugs Bunny. Neither was Clemens (twice), or the Big Unit.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #38 on:** July 28, 2009, 03:13:07 PM »

Quote from: NYWarrior on July 28, 2009, 03:01:57 PM

Sure there's a reason why -- players swing and miss more now than ever before. In the last 25 years the K/AB ratio of MLB players has spiked to unprecedented levels.

Hitters today are not afraid to K regularly while their predecessors were...players today strikeout at rates never before seen in the history game. MLB.com reported that AL batters "fanned a record 14,925 times in 2008, an increase of 35 from a 2007 total that had been a record. The National League also set a new mark in 2008, with 17,959 punch-outs. AL teams have averaged 1,000 strikeouts per club 10 times in history, while NL clubs have hit that mark 13 times. All of those occurrences have been in the past 13 years." Individually the figures are more acute -- 8 of the top 10 single season strikeout victims in MLB history happened within the last 9 years (and soon enough, all 10 will be with guys like Cust and Howard taking hacks). In fact 18 of the 'top 20' individual strikeout seasons happened in the last 23 years. The pitchers love it, just look at the list of starters with 2,000Ks or more -- the list is heavily weighted to the last 25 yrs (an era when innings pitched have gone down).

Also any pitching performance is not completely an individual effort. That is of course unless the pitcher is Bugs Bunny -- the only pitcher I knew who also called games and served as his own catcher, not to mention covering the other seven positions on the field. Kerry Wood was no Bugs Bunny. Neither was Clemens (twice), or the Big Unit.

Interesting stats...thanks

SaintPaulWarrior · « **Reply #39 on:** July 28, 2009, 07:28:12 PM »

Another interesting MB stat is he has faced 27 batters in a game 3 times in his career.

Perfect game.
No-hitter----picked off Sammy strike out at first after a walk.
1-hitter-----double play ball to eliminate runner.

NYWarrior · « **Reply #40 on:** July 28, 2009, 08:33:27 PM »

Wow. Buehrle was perfect through 5-2/3 tonight in Minnesota. He just the MLB record of consecutive batters retired (45, I think).

He only has 3 Ks though, so really, he was unimpressive during this stretch. Clearly his stuff remains 'ordinary'

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #41 on:** July 28, 2009, 09:30:17 PM »

Quote from: NYWarrior on July 28, 2009, 08:33:27 PM

Wow. Buehrle was perfect through 5-2/3 tonight in Minnesota. He just the MLB record of consecutive batters retired (45, I think).

He only has 3 Ks though, so really, he was unimpressive during this stretch. Clearly his stuff remains 'ordinary'

You should put that in teal....don't think anyone said he was unimpressive, just that striking out 20 is a more impressive feat by a pitcher because it's all on him (don't need your teammates other than the catcher).

wadesworld · « **Reply #42 on:** July 29, 2009, 12:09:43 AM »

Quote from: marqptm on July 28, 2009, 12:53:11 PM

Care to refute it? Did you watch the performance? No, you didn't.

MB even said himself that he didn't even feel like he pitched his best, but hit balls found fielders.

Did I even watch the performance? Yes, I did. Thank you, though.

It doesn't matter how he felt, he was PERFECT. You don't retire 27 straight batters with "ordinary" stuff. So yes, the fact that 27 batters came up, and 27 batters got out is enough to refute the idea that his stuff was "ordinary" to me, especially when the only defensive play that sticks out was Wise's catch. It's not like there were 27 diving catches, it was pretty much 26 routine outs and 1 ridiculous catch. There's nothing "ordinary" about a perfect game.

I do think it's pretty cute that you came to your buddies defense there though...

And of course Cubs fans just can't let a White Sox player get his moment of glory. He throws a perfect game, and of course the conversation turns into "Kerry Woods feat years ago was more impressive" that same day. Don't let the Sox steal the show!

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 29, 2009, 07:04:10 AM »

This isn't about Cubs Sox wadesworld. Unlike the Brewers, I respect the Sox. The tribune interviewed Cubs fans and the vast majority were happy for Buehrle. They threw some jabs in but they were happy for him. And for the record a sportsblog in Chicago started the debate.

No one said a perfect game is ordinary. His stuff was ordinary. Some fans have argued that the reason it's remarkable is because his stuff was ordinary. Somehow Buerhle threw more pitches than Wood did.

If it makes your fragile Brewer fan psyche feel better I believe Sheets' 18 K game was more impressive as well.

wadesworld · « **Reply #44 on:** July 29, 2009, 08:47:05 AM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 29, 2009, 07:04:10 AM

If it makes your fragile Brewer fan psyche feel better I believe Sheets' 18 K game was more impressive as well.

HAHA! Hilarious! I actually care more about the fact that ptm somehow (thinks he) knows what I do, including whether or not I watched Buehrle pitch that game. I think that's kind of weird...

🏀 · « **Reply #45 on:** July 29, 2009, 09:27:03 AM »

Quote from: wadesworld on July 29, 2009, 08:47:05 AM

HAHA! Hilarious! I actually care more about the fact that ptm somehow (thinks he) knows what I do, including whether or not I watched Buehrle pitch that game. I think that's kind of weird...

You didn't watch it. Don't say you did, it's painfully obvious that when you say Buerhle was 'impressive' that you didn't watch the game. There isn't a sports talk show in Chicago that will call his pitches impressive that day. The feat is impressive, but he wasn't fooling hitters, he wasn't blanking them out with a nasty strike, he was merely making his pitches.

However, I won't hold it against you if just watching regular Buerhle impresses you considering what you are used to watching for starting pitching.

SaintPaulWarrior · « **Reply #46 on:** July 29, 2009, 09:49:30 AM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 29, 2009, 07:04:10 AM

And for the record a sportsblog in Chicago started the debate.

To be fair, it is David Kaplan's sportsblog. He is one of the biggest Cub fans out there. He professes it almost every night on Tribune Live on Comcast Sports Net.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 29, 2009, 11:58:28 AM »

Yes, he's a Cubs fan but he is very unbiased. He is constantly critizing the Cubs, even during their 97 win season last year.

SaintPaulWarrior · « **Reply #48 on:** July 29, 2009, 12:01:03 PM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 29, 2009, 11:58:28 AM

Yes, he's a Cubs fan but he is very unbiased. He is constantly critizing the Cubs, even during their 97 win season last year.

You are correct, he rips them when they deserve it. Very unbiased, reason I like the guy.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #49 on:** July 29, 2009, 01:47:32 PM »

For clarity, Berhle did get rocked last night for 5 runs in 6 innings last night....right?

News:

Recent Posts

Please Register - It's FREE!

Poll

Which is more impressive?

Author Topic: Poll: 20Ks or Perfect Game (Read 12836 times)