Michigan State President Forced Out Over Gymnastic Doctor Scandal

[Herman Cain]

Michigan State was so eager to be a player at the Elite level that it was willing to compromise basic morality.  The Hollis resignation demonstrates that the Nassar incident was  the tip of the iceberg as far as bad acts go. It was an open secret in East Lansing that the student athlete bad behavior was being swept under the rug. This has been the case there for many decades.  Dantonio and Izzo are on thin ice. 

[GGGG]

https://deadspin.com/betsy-devos-rolled-back-title-ix-protections-two-days-a-1822462475

[Pakuni]

If Izzo where to leave, and I realize it all depends on new AD/Prez, but I could envision Woj as a candidate there, if these dominos fall.

Nothing against Wojo, but I suspect they'll aim way higher.
Think Chris Mack, Tony Bennett, Mark Few, Gregg Marshall.

[GGGG]

Nothing against Wojo, but I suspect they'll aim way higher.
Think Chris Mack, Tony Bennett, Mark Few, Gregg Marshall.

Replacing Izzo would be very difficult. Could there be sanctions because of this?  I think some would steer well clear of that job.

[LAZER]

Replacing Izzo would be very difficult. Could there be sanctions because of this?  I think some would steer well clear of that job.

President and AD situation will be interesting too. I think most big names would stay away, but they’d still get some good candidates.

[🏀]

Fake WoJo (ESPN WoJo, not our WoJo) account that flew around the interwebs earlier today.

PTM eats the trash!

That's why they call me Oscar.

[#UnleashSean]

IOC ordering USA gymnastics board to step down.

One curropt group telling another curropt group to step down. This'll be good.

[jesmu84]

Head of NCAA involved now....

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/report-mark-emmert-was-personally-told-about-37-thirty-seven-michigan-state-sexual-assaults-in-2010-and-did-nothing-about-it

[GooooMarquette]

Replacing Izzo would be very difficult. Could there be sanctions because of this?  I think some would steer well clear of that job.

They should...but MSU is a high-profile program, kinda like IU in the wake of Sampson.

[Tugg Speedman]

If Izzo where to leave, and I realize it all depends on new AD/Prez, but I could envision Woj as a candidate there, if these dominos fall.

But its no longer Michigan State.  It is "broken" Michigan State, with everyone gone and massive transfers.  It might be looking at severe NCAA penalties because its athletic department was involved (the NCAA set the precedent with Sandusky).

So it is not a broken team, it is a broken school.  Every team is broken. 

That is a mess that I would not want to touch.

[Pakuni]

But its no longer Michigan State.  It is "broken" Michigan State, with everyone gone and massive transfers.  It might be looking at severe NCAA penalties because its athletic department was involved (the NCAA set the precedent with Sandusky).

So it is not a broken team, it is a broken school.  Every team is broken. 

That is a mess that I would not want to touch.

The same, and much much worse, was said of Penn State in 2011.
Last two years? Top 10 finishes and appearances in major bowls.

[Tugg Speedman]

The same, and much much worse, was said of Penn State in 2011.
Last two years? Top 10 finishes and appearances in major bowls.

But it was only football at PSU.  At MSU it was the entire school.

[LAZER]

But it was only football at PSU.  At MSU it was the entire school.

Well we’re comparing PSU football and MSU basketball and the admin at PSU was definitely caught up in the whole thing, so they’re actually pretty comparable.

[Tugg Speedman]

We’re speculating that the MSU scandal is so big or takes out dantantio and izzo.  I assume if that happens that other coaches at MSU are at risk for the same reasons, if not all of them.

At PSU it was football and top admin, the basketball coach did not lose his job because of Sandusky.

[Tugg Speedman]

If Izzo where to leave, and I realize it all depends on new AD/Prez, but I could envision Woj as a candidate there, if these dominos fall.

Then Izzo to MU

[rocket surgeon]

Izzo- umm, said more or less that  he’s gonna deal with the survivors and a lot of the things that happened today are part of life, well,sot of...?  Wow was he at a loss for words or what.  His attorney just bumped his fee

[GGGG]

It's a dirty little secret in higher education that some universities setup separate conduct processes for student athletes. You'll often find title ix offices are housed in athletic departments for this very purpose. I will never work for a title ix office that reports to an athletic director. I'm sure most are great people who follow the law,  but there is just too much opportunity for abuse.

TAMU, this is crap that has to stop.  Universities need to stop treating athletics like subsidiaries who are allowed to run their own business.  I mean, I've never really cared all that much about the wink and a nod benefits that student athletes get because I think amateurism is a sham, but when you actively set up systems to shield student athletes who are a danger to your community from punishment?  Well that's simply shameful.

The NCAA is really ill-equipped to deal with something like this.  And the schools will never give it the power to do so.  So we are left with the DoE, who could sanction the entire University.  And let's just say I'm not holding my breath that they will do anything substantial.

[GooooMarquette]

Well we’re comparing PSU football and MSU basketball and the admin at PSU was definitely caught up in the whole thing, so they’re actually pretty comparable.

The PSU scandal involved one program (football) and one perpetrator (Sandusky).  Many people were involved in the denial and coverup, but it was still relatively limited.

At MSU, we first learned about it because of the gymnastics doc and lots of people covering up for him.  If it had stopped there, I'd agree it was comparable to the PSU scandal.  But even at that point, it was arguably worse, because this guy not only worked for MSU, but USA Gymnastics.  Also, we are now learning that the enablers of the gymnastic doc also covered up for multiple perpetrators in multiple sports. 

And if the dramatically expanded scope isn't enough to convince you, I'll also note that times have changed since the PSU scandal.  Cosby, Weinstein, the #metoo movement - lots of people who previously would have gotten away with sexual violence are now being held accountable. 

If the findings of the OTL report are true, it will take a long time for MSU to recover.

[tower912]

To get to Izzo and Dantonio, they are going to have to show they either (A) had knowledge of Nassar or (B) failed to follow MSU's protocols as they were laid out at the time.     I fully expect that there will be more carnage within MSU, and there should be.    The president is gone, the AD is gone, I expect most of the board of trustees to go, the gymnastics coach, a whole bunch more.    I don't think it takes down Izzo or Dantonio.    I think their retirement dates may have just gotten moved up, but I predict they leave on their own terms.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

It's a dirty little secret in higher education that some universities setup separate conduct processes for student athletes. You'll often find title ix offices are housed in athletic departments for this very purpose. I will never work for a title ix office that reports to an athletic director. I'm sure most are great people who follow the law,  but there is just too much opportunity for abuse.

Bingo. As overzealous as the USC cases were in one direction, this is 200 times worse in the other.  More so, throw in campus police, Lansing police and DA.  Such uneven and confounded levels of justice. 

I will even throw the local press in these college towns under the bus just like in Madison.  I mean all this stuff was out there already but heaven forbid they do their jobs.

I might add Hollis in particular should be skewered.  His coaches are his most valuable assets.  No way should he have exposed them as the problem solvers.  First thing you are trained on in any management job is to call in the neutral professionals (legal, compliance, HR) and have the managers/coaches step away. These coaches shouldn't be talking to the victims, the accused or to any one else on these matters. Management 101.

[forgetful]

TAMU, this is crap that has to stop.  Universities need to stop treating athletics like subsidiaries who are allowed to run their own business.  I mean, I've never really cared all that much about the wink and a nod benefits that student athletes get because I think amateurism is a sham, but when you actively set up systems to shield student athletes who are a danger to your community from punishment?  Well that's simply shameful.

The NCAA is really ill-equipped to deal with something like this.  And the schools will never give it the power to do so.  So we are left with the DoE, who could sanction the entire University.  And let's just say I'm not holding my breath that they will do anything substantial.

It's not just athletes, it is anyone that brings in money.  Kids of wealthy families, athletes etc., they get a pass.  Keeping kids safe is irrelevant if the $$$$'s says it is.

The vast majority of assaults reported to University die in an office, where the victims are scared out of saying anything because of "how powerful" their attackers/family are and the media storm it would create. 

[Tugg Speedman]

The PSU scandal involved one program (football) and one perpetrator (Sandusky).  Many people were involved in the denial and coverup, but it was still relatively limited.

At MSU, we first learned about it because of the gymnastics doc and lots of people covering up for him.  If it had stopped there, I'd agree it was comparable to the PSU scandal.  But even at that point, it was arguably worse, because this guy not only worked for MSU, but USA Gymnastics.  Also, we are now learning that the enablers of the gymnastic doc also covered up for multiple perpetrators in multiple sports. 

And if the dramatically expanded scope isn't enough to convince you, I'll also note that times have changed since the PSU scandal.  Cosby, Weinstein, the #metoo movement - lots of people who previously would have gotten away with sexual violence are now being held accountable. 

If the findings of the OTL report are true, it will take a long time for MSU to recover.

Right-on gooo

Add to this that PSU saw an outpouring of support and donor money to get football back on the Map.  But if Dantonio and Izzo are fired because theiy helped cover up players committing sexual assault... any Spartan booster than wants to donate money to football and basketball gets shunned as a sexist.  “If they really cared they give it to the women’s programs.”  Any fan that wants to give the teams a standing ovation when they runout of the tunnel will be brandished and predator.

Again if the ESPN allegations are true, this is a game changer for the worse for MSU.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU, this is crap that has to stop.  Universities need to stop treating athletics like subsidiaries who are allowed to run their own business.  I mean, I've never really cared all that much about the wink and a nod benefits that student athletes get because I think amateurism is a sham, but when you actively set up systems to shield student athletes who are a danger to your community from punishment?  Well that's simply shameful.

The NCAA is really ill-equipped to deal with something like this.  And the schools will never give it the power to do so.  So we are left with the DoE, who could sanction the entire University.  And let's just say I'm not holding my breath that they will do anything substantial.

Absolutely agree though I will say that we need to be careful not to paint with too broad of a brush. There are corrupt universities that do this, but they are the vast minority. Bad actors need to be weeded out.

Most universities have a policy in their university rules that says something to the effect of "if you break any federal, state, or local laws you can be held accountable by the university." The NCAA needs to develop a rule to the effect of "if a university violates a federal law (like Title IX) and a student athlete is somehow involved, the NCAA can hold them accountable." This will only stop for good when punishments impact universities' athletics. Academics, reputation, endowment, etc, universities will brush that off easily. Gotta hit them where it hurts and that is their athletic programs. But just like they wimped out with Penn State, the NCAA will sidestep Baylor, and then sidestep Michigan State. They don't want to be involved.

As for MSU, I think Dantonio will be pushed out but only becasue there is a large population of MSU shakers and movers that already want him gone. The only way I see Izzo getting pushed out is if the new MSU president truly decides to clean house and I don't see that happening. President may have lost her job but I doubt anyone at the Board of Regents gets targeted and they are the ones who control the President.

[forgetful]

Absolutely agree though I will say that we need to be careful not to paint with too broad of a brush. There are corrupt universities that do this, but they are the vast minority. Bad actors need to be weeded out.

I don't think "corrupt universities" are in the vast minority.  The magnitude of the corruption at MSU was unique, but the general corruption is far more wide spread.

If the reports regarding assaults, the basketball program and Izzo are true, he should already have been fired.  Same thing for Dantonio and the football program.

[jesmu84]

Right-on gooo

Add to this that PSU saw an outpouring of support and donor money to get football back on the Map.  But if Dantonio and Izzo are fired because theiy helped cover up players committing sexual assault... any Spartan booster than wants to donate money to football and basketball gets shunned as a sexist.  “If they really cared they give it to the women’s programs.” Any fan that wants to give the teams a standing ovation when they runout of the tunnel will be brandished and predator.

Again if the ESPN allegations are true, this is a game changer for the worse for MSU.

No