MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ToddRosiakSays on March 17, 2011, 12:00:05 PM
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MU NCAA Tournament open practice
Cleveland, Ohio -- You guys asked for it, so you get it.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/118178579.html
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He's live blogging from the open practice ....
12:19 March 17 Todd Rosiak:
The question was asked the other day before the team left. Buzz answered it the way he did for a reason -- whatever that is. No, he didn't say he's not going anywhere. He also didn't say he IS going somewhere. As much as you fans are going to worry about it, nothing definitive is going to come of this until the games are done and the wheels are set in motion, if indeed he is a target of Oklahoma and/or Arkansas. And what if the Tennessee job opens up? That could be another rumor you can add to the mill.
12:19 Comment From RaydogRaydog: ]
Todd, re: the whole rumors garbage...could Buzz just do what he did last year and say, "I'll be here as long as they'll have me" and end all of this? Then again, that's probably not realistic in today's college hoops.
Thursday March 17, 2011 12:19 Raydog
12:20 Todd Rosiak:
No, it really isn't realistic. I think last year was a rarity with regard to what he said.
12:25 [Comment From Benny BBenny B: ]
Todd, thanks for the response, but let me rephrase: will Buzz avoid the coaching questions now that the pressers have national media (i.e. the guys who don't hold anything back) involved?
Thursday March 17, 2011 12:26 Benny B
12:26Todd Rosiak:
There's really no one here that would have an interest (that I've seen) in asking Buzz about coaching rumors from the national scene. It's mostly Cincinnati and Cleveland guys with a few bigger papers here to just cover the games in general.
12:27 [Comment From Cracked sidewalks Cracked sidewalks: ]
But in all seriousness, granted this is way to early to speculate, but who could/would the school go after next? With the BE being a meat grinder, and since MU lucked out with the inhouse hire of Buzz....
Thursday March 17, 2011 12:28 Cracked sidewalks
12:29 Todd Rosiak:
I have my ideas. If it gets to that point, I'll be sure to share them with you. Some might surprise you, some might not. How about this: you come up with a list and tweet me. Let's see if we're on the same page.
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I'd say make a Strong run at Brad Stevens.
Or I could act as a liaison to Bruce. ;D
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Brad Stevens does nothing for me. Caught lightening in a bottle and I don't think he's got the gravitas to make a go of it long-term, especially in the Big East. We need a recruiter who's a little bit of a brawler. I wanted Brownell when douche bag left. I'm going to have to think about this time around.
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I'd say make a Strong run at Brad Stevens.
Or I could act as a liaison to Bruce. ;D
Stevens would probably be my first choice, though it remains to be seen if he can recruit at this level. He's done a great job with 2 and 3 star guys, could he do the same when he needed to pursue 4 and 5 stars? My firm hope is that Buzz sticks around. If he didn't, however, Stevens would be as good a hope as anyone from the mid-major ranks.
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Dick Verscae or Tony Barone...what do you think TR?
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I agree with PuertoRicanNightmare. We definitely need somebody who can recruit on a consistent basis. This is not the Horizon League. We are talking about the Big East here. Would definitely go for somebody more established who has coached in the ACC, Big 12, Big 10 or the SEC. Marquette can actually afford on someone big. As I have said for the 50th time(exaggerated), Dino Gaudio is the man. We won't have to pay any sort of buyout costs, since he is out of the job and he has coached in the ACC. As far as getting recruits to MU, nobody will ever be able to replace BUZZ.
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I'd like Pete Rose.
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I agree with PuertoRicanNightmare. We definitely need somebody who can recruit on a consistent basis. This is not the Horizon League. We are talking about the Big East here. Would definitely go for somebody more established who has coached in the ACC, Big 12, Big 10 or the SEC. Marquette can actually afford on someone big. As I have said for the 50th time(exaggerated), Dino Gaudio is the man. We won't have to pay any sort of buyout costs, since he is out of the job and he has coached in the ACC. As far as getting recruits to MU, nobody will ever be able to replace BUZZ.
The last two coaches had pretty ugly kissers and now you want to add third?
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Go after another coach that gets the Big East grind...Mike Rice. Love him. MU ties, gets Milwaukee. Solid coach, good recruiter, his dad was a great coach...it's in his blood.
I could throw some other names out there, but if the concern is "the Big East grind" then get someone that is used to the grind and knows how to deal with.
That being said, I hope Buzz sticks around.
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How about Bruce Pearl? I hear he is a pretty good recruiter and might be looking for a job
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How about Bruce Pearl? I hear he is a pretty good recruiter and might be looking for a job
That, and he knows the area. Plus, he's really popular in Illinois... ;D
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And if we can get Pearl, maybe Maymon would come back in a package deal?
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That, and he knows the area. Plus, he's really popular in Illinois... ;D
And instead of a Texas BBQ on campus, we'd all be invited to a barbecue at his home.
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Pearl before swine?
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I hope Buzz stays long enough so that when he leaves Wardle is ready for the job.
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Go after another coach that gets the Big East grind...Mike Rice. Love him. MU ties, gets Milwaukee. Solid coach, good recruiter, his dad was a great coach...it's in his blood.
I could throw some other names out there, but if the concern is "the Big East grind" then get someone that is used to the grind and knows how to deal with.
That being said, I hope Buzz sticks around.
No way we go after another coach in the BE. Not going to happen. I hope Buzz stays because I think there will be slim pickins for MU. I see another assistant getting promoted if he goes and then we will be having the same discussions three years from now.
This program does not need another coach coming in now. Bad timing in my opinion. I am certain we lose some of the recruits if Buzz goes. That will cement us in the lower half of the conference again next season.
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Hoops---Wardle is ready right now...usher in my section just retired and spot is vacant.
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I like the Dino Gaudio suggestion...
Mike Rice would be great...but just can't see him leaving Rutgers, even with his former MU ties
Like the VCU coach - Shaka Smart
Tony Benford possibly
But..Buzz Williams trumps all!
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Darrin Horn anyone?
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Darrin Horn anyone?
Cause he's doing so well at South Carolina?
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Darrin Horn anyone?
Been thinking of him myself the last few days, but haven't been following him since he went to South Carolina.
I think he could be successful at MU, recruiting to South Carolina is worse then recruiting to MU by far.
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Darrin Horn has pretty much sucked at South Carolina. I also don't like Gaudio, but who knows.
I still really like Dwayne Stephens. Has MU ties...big time recruiter... But he's never been a head coach. Shaka Smart would be an interesting hire. BTW he has Wisconsin connections. He was born in Madison and went to Oregon High School.
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Brian Gregory, if you want Crean part II..maybe he'll get lucky and hit on a Wade type player too.
Scott Spinelli is also very impressive. Turgeon's associate head coach, from east coast. great recruiter.
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What about the Oakland University coach Greg Kampe? He might not be Big East ready now, but I can see someone hiring him in a Major Conference in the next year or two.
Best possible solution would be for Buzz to stick around another 3-6 years, minimum, to help build the Marquette's program and give it continuity.
I'm still waiting for Marquette's version of Jamie Dixon/Jim Boeheim/Jay Wright.
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I am probably the only one but Bruce Pearl is heck of a coach. What he did at UWM and Tennessee is just short of remarkable in that timespan. I for one would love to have Coach Pearl.
Although I would rather have Buzz
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I'm still waiting for Marquette's version of Jamie Dixon/Jim Boeheim/Jay Wright.
I'm hoping that the wait for that guy is over. That's why I don't want Buzz to leave.
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I'm hoping that the wait for that guy is over. That's why I don't want Buzz to leave.
Agreed
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12:27 Thursday March 17, 2011 12:27 Billy Mac why is it not realistic? The Arizona AD just stated Miller is not going anywhere... that is what I liked about Buzz's statement last year, it was straight to the pooint.
12:27 Todd Rosiak: Interesting that the AD said it, and not Miller.
I found TR's answer to this question very interesting, but i may be reading too deep into it.
Any chance he's suggesting Cottingham's silence could be telling?
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Benford is an atrocious pick...he's shown little recruiting chops to date and lord only knows if he can coach....talk about a gamble, better odds investing with Madoff.
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I am probably the only one but Bruce Pearl is heck of a coach. What he did at UWM and Tennessee is just short of remarkable in that timespan. I for one would love to have Coach Pearl.
There is zero chance that Pearl, with his NCAA baggage, comes to MU.
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I agree he'll never come to MU because the MU administration won't allow redemption...
but the media still loves Pearl and if you wanted to ensure basketball success he's a sure thing. Very impressive what Bruce has done at his stops.
I don't think he'll get fired anyway, SEC is numb to cheating by now.
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besides being a Warrior fan I've been a Wake Forest fan since living in W-S during the Mugsy years and would hateto see Dino Gaudio here, I was in the camp that was glad to see him get fired after choking every March, he only got that job for the sympathy factor and to try to hold onto the incoming freshman class, actually a few similarities as to why Buzz got this job
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I agree he'll never come to MU because the MU administration won't allow redemption...
but the media still loves Pearl and if you wanted to ensure basketball success he's a sure thing. Very impressive what Bruce has done at his stops.
I don't think he'll get fired anyway, SEC is numb to cheating by now.
A number of the media have caught on to him and written (finally) scathing articles about his practices.
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I agree he'll never come to MU because the MU administration won't allow redemption...
but the media still loves Pearl and if you wanted to ensure basketball success he's a sure thing. Very impressive what Bruce has done at his stops.
I don't think he'll get fired anyway, SEC is numb to cheating by now.
Redemption?
Is that what they call handing a known liar and cheat the keys your basketball program these days?
Heck, why not Dave Bliss, Todd Bozeman or Clem Haskins?
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I agree he'll never come to MU because the MU administration won't allow redemption...
but the media still loves Pearl and if you wanted to ensure basketball success he's a sure thing. Very impressive what Bruce has done at his stops.
I don't think he'll get fired anyway, SEC is numb to cheating by now.
Hiring Bruce Pearl as your head coach is kind of like sleeping with an experienced Filipino whore. You'll really enjoy the experience while it's going on, but you'll also know the entire time that it's dirty, and when it's over, you're guaranteed to come out diseased (or on probation).
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Is that what they call handing a known liar and cheat the keys your basketball program these days?
Yes, it'll play on ESPN.
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Hiring Bruce Pearl as your head coach is kind of like sleeping with an experienced Filipino whore. You'll really enjoy the experience while it's going on, but you'll also know the entire time that it's dirty, and when it's over, you're guaranteed to come out diseased (or on probation).
Great stuff!
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Yes, it'll play on ESPN.
That'll certainly make the two years on probation much easier to swallow.
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I agree he'll never come to MU because the MU administration won't allow redemption...
My guess is that the MU administration is fine with redemption...just not on their dime.
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Redemption?
Is that what they call handing a known liar and cheat the keys your basketball program these days?
Heck, why not Dave Bliss, Todd Bozeman or Clem Haskins?
Bozeman is in the process of redemption. He's at Morgan State. You don't get redeemed at the highest level. You go back and pay your dues all over again.
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Anyone have any thoughts on Chris Mooney at Richmond? Doing a decent job there and MU is actually a step up from that program.
Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot out there. Jesus, I hope Buzz stays.
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Bozeman is in the process of redemption. He's at Morgan State. You don't get redeemed at the highest level. You go back and pay your dues all over again.
Do you think Bozeman is ever going to get another high major gig?
Schools will put up with a lot of shenanigans for the sake of winning, but directly paying players' families and stalking (then threatening) coeds usually aren't among them.
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After reading all these threads, and our options, as much as it was sour to have to give it to TC, I, regretably, would be happy to see us give $, an extension (with significant--higher than TC's--buyout on early departure), to keep Buzz, and ensure 3 years plus of coaching stability, for the school, and stability for Buzz's family.
I havent seen any program get better with coaching instability, and if MU is ever to have a shot again at top tier program status...it starts here.
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Amen to that houwarrior!!!
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I found TR's answer to this question very interesting, but i may be reading too deep into it.
Any chance he's suggesting Cottingham's silence could be telling?
The Miller rumors are puzzling. Why would he leave Arizona? Great tradition, great fan base and super climate. That one does not pass the smell test.
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I think a great candidate would be either Ralph Willard former Holy Cross coach and current Louisville assistant coach or Tommy Amaker current Harvard coach and former Michigan coach.
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I think a great candidate would be either Ralph Willard former Holy Cross coach and current Louisville assistant coach or Tommy Amaker current Harvard coach and former Michigan coach.
This wouldn't pass the "I've done keg stands and shots of Ceurvo all night" eye test. Can't make that list pretty.
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Do you think Bozeman is ever going to get another high major gig?
Ever? He's only 47. There are certainly circumstances where I could see him getting another gig...but I don't think they will play out.
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This wouldn't pass the "I've done keg stands and shots of Ceurvo all night" eye test. Can't make that list pretty.
Can you even tell a good coach without them having to be in a BCS conference?
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besides being a Warrior fan I've been a Wake Forest fan since living in W-S during the Mugsy years and would hateto see Dino Gaudio here, I was in the camp that was glad to see him get fired after choking every March, he only got that job for the sympathy factor and to try to hold onto the incoming freshman class, actually a few similarities as to why Buzz got this job
Agree 1000 percent with this....inherited a talented team and couldn't do anything with them after the first season's "'win one for the coach" had run its course....was not a good recruiter and rapidly turned WF into the ACC whipping boy....
I for one would want no part of Dino....there's a reason he's still unemployed....
Just because he coached in the ACC doesn't mean he's a good coach.
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Let's bring back Crean.
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Let's bring back Crean.
No thanks
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Can we please so with all this. Buzz is our coach!
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Rice or Stallings...it would take some convincing, but I think MU has enough to offer.
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ANYONE that suggests Amaker did not pay any attention to Michigan under his tenure. Underachieving and average at best. He is not the solution. He'd be a re-tread.
If we lose Buzz, the number one thing MU needs is a solid recruiter. Coaching will come in due time. If you have better players from the get go, you buy yourself time and give your program a fighting chance.
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ANYONE that suggests Amaker did not pay any attention to Michigan under his tenure. Underachieving and average at best. He is not the solution. He'd be a re-tread.
If we lose Buzz, the number one thing MU needs is a solid recruiter. Coaching will come in due time. If you have better players from the get go, you buy yourself time and give your program a fighting chance.
If you did pay ATTENTION to his Michigan situation. He had to take over a team that was dealing with NCAA penalties and Sanctions.
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ANYONE that suggests Amaker did not pay any attention to Michigan under his tenure. Underachieving and average at best. He is not the solution. He'd be a re-tread.
I'll admit I haven't followed Amaker closely, but he did have the #2 recruiting class in one of his years at Seton Hall. The Michigan situation was tough because of the scandal that preceded him. Maybe he's a guy like Majerus, who was maybe a bit in over his head but could develop into a very good coach at the right program. Maybe his years at Harvard have done him well. If he can recruit, I could imagine us doing worse.
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Can we stop bumping these posts up!!??!!
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why
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I really hope Buzz stays. When he was hired MU took a chance on him. I don't think he was going to be a serious candidate at any other good programs for a long time. MAYBE he could have gotten a head coaching job at a very low DI and been far removed from landing a top gig OR he could have followed TC to be an assistant and have his career not looking so bright. Instead MU handed the keys to him.......a gig in the Big East with the 3 amigos as seniors! And when MU chose Buzz, they knew fully well that the hire would not be the most popular. Buzz won everyone over, but he also had a helluva lot of help with how he was set up. I hope he is true to his words from last year because MU has helped him realize a lot of his dreams.
With that said, if Buzz decides to leave, MU needs to figure out how to get a premier coach and keep him. It sure doesn't seem like turning up and coming coaches into hot commodities is working......despite paying them as much as anyone is willing.
How much are we really willing to pay? Top 15-20??? How much would MU play to keep a coach who won a championship for us? I think MU would be willing to pay top 5 for a truly premier coach that won us a championship. So why can't MU go after a top coach that isn't in the top 10 in salary and offer them a nice raise? MU may not be a destination job for coaches, but success can clearly be had in the top conference in the country. I would think there are a lot of established coaches that could do at least as well as TC or Buzz.
I just find MU to be putting themselves in the same position with the recent hires at coach. Up and comers having success and moving on. I think if you steal a top coach.......he stays unless a true top 5 school comes calling.
It would be hard to give a guy a huge contract that hasn't performed at your school, but MU has been successful with TC and Buzz. I don't see a slip with an established top coach. The question is how much would MU be willing to pay to steal away a top coach?
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I really hope Buzz stays too, but it just seems like with all these southern jobs open, it might be a logical time for him to leave. He is a pretty family oriented guy too so I'm sure that will play in as well.
But if necessary and we're looking for names what about these...
Bruce Webber - with things a bit rough in Illinois and I kind of like the idea that he is older and from Wisconsin and wouldn't be looking for another job in the near future
Brad Stevens - young energetic and don't forget he recruited Gordon Hayward
Josh Pastner - young energetic, but would he stay, kind of the same as Stevens but without the championship appearance
Steve Wojciechowski from Duke - I read he could be a candidate at Utah and he has been mentored for quite awhile under king of coaching Coach K. Or is he just waiting for Coach K to retire?
Lon Kruger - who's name popped up last time we were looking and solid wherever he has been
Tony Bennett - I still like him and don't have a problem with his style and he has the Wisconsin ties. He is another guy rumored for the Utah job (not sure why he keeps moving but with Wisconsin being his home state...)
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Bruce Webber - with things a bit rough in Illinois and I kind of like the idea that he is older and from Wisconsin and wouldn't be looking for another job in the near future
Not sure why, I've never liked Weber. Seems like he really rode Self's coattails at Illinois, though. But the past couple years, he's put a couple really good recruiting classes together. Might not be a bad choice, but I can't see him leaving Illinois just yet. He's finally getting the players, firing him now would really do damage to their program. On the plus side, he could bring Mike Shaw with him.
Brad Stevens - young energetic and don't forget he recruited Gordon Hayward
I like Stevens, but recruiting Gordon Hayward is exactly why I DON'T want him. Hayward was a 3-star prospect. Yes, he turned out to be excellent, the diamond in the rough type, but that was Stevens' biggest success. He's done great with the 3-star guys, but does that translate to recruiting at the Big East level? Can he walk into a 5-star's living room and convince them that Marquette is where they need to be? I would like him as a hire, but the recruiting levels at Marquette and Butler are worlds apart, and he'd definitely be the unproven commodity sort of hire.
Josh Pastner - young energetic, but would he stay, kind of the same as Stevens but without the championship appearance
Would he stay? Why would he leave Memphis? He's done an excellent recruiting job and if he can keep those kids they should be able to be right back where Cal had them within a year or two. I could see him leaving, but if he did, it would be for a job much bigger than ours.
Steve Wojciechowski from Duke - I read he could be a candidate at Utah and he has been mentored for quite awhile under king of coaching Coach K. Or is he just waiting for Coach K to retire?
I have no idea if Wojo can recruit, but I'd applaud this hire. Seems like the kind of guy who'd do things the right way, and learned at the feet of the master. My only fear would be him eventually leaving for the Duke job.
Lon Kruger - who's name popped up last time we were looking and solid wherever he has been
I think this would be very much a "stay afloat" hire. Kruger's always been good, but rarely been great. I think he'd keep us in the 5-8 range of the Big East, maybe the occasional Sweet 16, I'm just not sure he would be the type to take us over the hump.
Tony Bennett - I still like him and don't have a problem with his style and he has the Wisconsin ties. He is another guy rumored for the Utah job (not sure why he keeps moving but with Wisconsin being his home state...)
He had a couple great years with Wazoo, but what's he done of late? His last three seasons have been mediocre, and I'm just not convinced he's a high-major coach. His recruiting has been good, but not great. The Wisconsin ties are nice, but it seems like he's still living off one Sweet 16.
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Good points. I agree on just about all fronts. Wojo could be a diamond, but my exact feeling, like yours, when would he leave for Duke. But I think maybe getting that Duke style in could draw a long like of successors...possibly. Know what I mean? As far as Bennett, I am of the belief that once you can watch a guy tactically be a great coach, you can't just look for bad results and say "he is a bad coach now." My assessment is that he, like his dad, is an incredible coach so I'd take him. He turned around Wash State overnight with his dad...does he need his dad? I don't think so. But I like him and don't mind the style like everyone else does...Big East or not. I guess if it does happen, I hope it is someone like these type of guys that have had success and not just some mid major guy that took an unexpected team to the tournament a couple times. Time will tell. I think the most interesting one would be Wojo. How would that look?
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Shaka Smart from VCU is the ONLY coach I'd want...that I feel we might have a chance at landing...
But again...let's hope Buzz doesn't leave..to me this would be the worst possible time for that to happen. Got to think Buzz sees the upside with his current roster and incoming recruits.
I believe Buzz's family desires obviously are first...but second to that...he cares deeply about his players. It would be really hard on him to leave a DJO/Crowder/Vander, and every other player. Just don't see it happening.
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Oh it would obviously be hard, but I don't think as hard as you think. Family trumps all, like you said, and it would be emotional for him to leave, but it is just like every other coaching move. All coaches are attached to their players emotionally. I do think, however, that he would leave a heck of a lot more respectfully than his predecessor. It would be done "in the right way" as Buzz would say.
I also agree that we don't need this to happen right now.
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Shaka Smart might be a nice hire. My only question would be if he can recruit at this level. Does anyone know what he did at Florida? I have to imagine he got some good recruiting pointers from Donovan and Purnell, and I'm a big fan of their style of play. He'd be on my short list.
I would like Wojo as a hire, mainly because I admired him as a player. Not great, but steady and smart. Of course, learning from K is a plus. Bennett wouldn't be bad, but I'm leery of his production of late and his moving around. Would we be a destination or just another stop?
How about guys currently on our staff? Maybe Aki Collins or Scott Monarch? Neither really have the high-major experience, but neither did Buzz.
Other guys that I could see...
Tommy Amaker - I know he might not be the most popular name, but he was a rising star at SHU before Michigan derailed him. But that was a bad situation from the start. Very good recruiter that is back on the rise and actually has experience at the high-major level
Chris Mack - He's getting top 100 players to Xavier and continuing what Miller started. Not sure he would be able to replicate it, but it's hard not to admire what today's opponent has done in recent years.
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On the plus side, he could bring Mike Shaw with him.
Weber also could bring underated 6'-10" PF Nnanna Egwu who actually might be better than Shaw. He can recruit outstandingly (in the Chicago area) but if he doesn't make a run in the next two years I'd start to question what he can do with his talents.
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I hope Buzz stays and, ultimately, I think he will. But if not here's a few candidates that seem interesting...some, if not all, have been mentioned.
Mike Dunlap- on Lavin's staff, great rep as an instructional, defensive-minded coach, knows the BE, helped lead Arizona to Sweet 16 when Lute went down, also has NBA coaching experience
Chris Collins- not sure if he's next in line at Duke but has had the benefit of Coach K's mentoring, good Chicago ties
Chris Mooney- Richmond HC, flavor of the day but has that program on track, community-focused guy which would be appreciated at MU, already been mentioned for the G-Tech job
Darrin Horn- hasn't fared well at SC (yet) but took WKU to the Sweet 16 with his players, understands the MU landscape for the most part
Joe Dooley- assistant to Self at KU, ranked as top asst in US by Foxsports, supposed to be a good recruiter, head coaching experience at ECU (where he actually won), from NJ, played at St. Benedict's
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Did anyone think Buzz was BigEast ready?
Hoping Buzz stays, but if not I call dibs on his Valor Blue sportcoat.
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Weber also could bring underated 6'-10" PF Nnanna Egwu who actually might be better than Shaw. He can recruit outstandingly (in the Chicago area) but if he doesn't make a run in the next two years I'd start to question what he can do with his talents.
I have major questions as to Weber's recruiting ability. I believe he lands the talent he does due to being the predominant state school in Illinois. Just like most Wisconsin kids grow up wanting to play at UW...the same has to hold true in Illinois. Chicago kids grow up watching the Illini....and not Marquette (or at least not as much)
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Buzz needs to remain the man. Cottingham cannot allow Buzz to leave so quickly.
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I look at the track record of Coach K assistants, and I say "no thanks." No Wojo, no Collins, no Amacher.
Pastner isn't coming here. MU is a marginal step-up from Memphis...if a step up at all. Weber isn't coming here either.
Dooley and Dunlap would be fine.
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Buzz needs to remain the man. Cottingham cannot allow Buzz to leave so quickly.
Bingo.
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I have major questions as to Weber's recruiting ability. I believe he lands the talent he does due to being the predominant state school in Illinois. Just like most Wisconsin kids grow up wanting to play at UW...the same has to hold true in Illinois. Chicago kids grow up watching the Illini....and not Marquette (or at least not as much)
Sorry, Ners, but that's absolutely not true. Downstate kids, i.e. from Peoria, Springfield, East St. Louis, Decatur, grow up wanting to play for Illinois, but Chicago kids hold no such loyalty. Hence, it's not much of a surprise when Chicago's top players - kids like Derrick Rose, Sherron Collins, Jon Scheyer, Julian Wright, Shannon Brown, Sean Dockery, etc. - often leave state.
Weber still gets ripped for it, of course, but it's entirely common, and happened under his predecessor. The exception has been, for a time post Ray Meyer, when Lou Henson got all the top Public League talent, largely because he was keeping Sonny Cox in $1,000 suits.
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Weber inquired about our opening when a-hole left.
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If you want to know how Bruce Weber gets his recruits, the answer is assistant coach, Jerrance Howard. It's no coincidence that Weber's classes started picking up once Howard came on board. Howard is thought of as one of the best recruiters in college basketball. Pretty sure that he has been mentioned for some big jobs in the past.
Realistically, I don't think anyone comes in next year without Marquette's program taking a step back (at least in the short term). Buzz walked into the perfect situation with some known commodities and leaders in his first year. Buzz did a wonderful job with them and has continued on that track. I don't see those guys being left over on next year's roster. I think Buzz may be on the verge of something special here but we are still a few years away.
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Buzz needs to remain the man. Cottingham cannot allow Buzz to leave so quickly.
Goose! Finally we agree on something. Well done. ;D
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Shaka Smart might be a nice hire. My only question would be if he can recruit at this level. Does anyone know what he did at Florida? I have to imagine he got some good recruiting pointers from Donovan and Purnell, and I'm a big fan of their style of play. He'd be on my short list.
I would like Wojo as a hire, mainly because I admired him as a player. Not great, but steady and smart. Of course, learning from K is a plus. Bennett wouldn't be bad, but I'm leery of his production of late and his moving around. Would we be a destination or just another stop?
How about guys currently on our staff? Maybe Aki Collins or Scott Monarch? Neither really have the high-major experience, but neither did Buzz.
Other guys that I could see...
Tommy Amaker - I know he might not be the most popular name, but he was a rising star at SHU before Michigan derailed him. But that was a bad situation from the start. Very good recruiter that is back on the rise and actually has experience at the high-major level
Chris Mack - He's getting top 100 players to Xavier and continuing what Miller started. Not sure he would be able to replicate it, but it's hard not to admire what today's opponent has done in recent years.
Hope Buzz stays, but if he doesn't....
I don't see why Mack, a Xavier alum, would want to come to MU for the gauntlet when he has a cushy gig there. Miller made more sense since he was a Pitt guy and not a Xavier alum. I do think that he ends up at Pitt if Dixon leaves.
I like the idea of Amaker in many ways. He's had to learn now how to coach without superior athletes, the stint at Harvard has probably made him a better coach. That being said, he didn't meet expectations the first time around at Seton Hall, though he did take Seton Hall to the Sweet 16, something only ONE MU coach has done in the last 16 years. Granted, luck and the draw have a lot to do with that, but nevertheless he did have some success. He was only 33 at the time, that's awfully young.
At Michigan, he had to deal with NCAA probation which didn't help his cause at all.
Is Amaker 2.0 better than 1.0?
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Weber inquired about our opening when a-hole left.
Really? In 1994 when KO left Weber was inquiring about the MU job? He wasn't even the head coach of SIU yet. Good for him for taking the initiative.
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I hope it doesn't come to this, but if it does John Groce should be high on Cottingham's list. He was Matta's top guy at Ohio State when they recovered fast from the Jim O'Brien mess, and before that he was with Matta at Butler and Xavier. He's been at Ohio University the past three years, and led them to a big upset win over Georgetown in last year's tournament. They took a slight step back this year, which isn't a huge surprise as they're pretty young and lost three starters from the year before, but finished strong (11-4 in last 15, including a 25-point pasting of NCAA-bound Akron).
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Is Amaker 2.0 better than 1.0?
No. He's not. Amaker is not the answer. He's on his third team. Probation or not at Michigan, he had time to make an impact and move the program forward. It moved sideways at best. He is not the answer.
Go for a top flight guy (unlikely to come), and if that falls through, get a top assistant known for recruiting. Coaching will take care of itself.
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I hope it doesn't come to this, but if it does John Groce should be high on Cottingham's list. He was Matta's top guy at Ohio State when they recovered fast from the Jim O'Brien mess, and before that he was with Matta at Butler and Xavier. He's been at Ohio University the past three years, and led them to a big upset win over Georgetown in last year's tournament. They took a slight step back this year, which isn't a huge surprise as they're pretty young and lost three starters from the year before, but finished strong (11-4 in last 15, including a 25-point pasting of NCAA-bound Akron).
I thought of him as well....I don't like the Matta linkage because I don't trust Matta's recruiting at all, but Groce has done some good things in the MAC.
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How about the Morehead State guy?
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No. He's not. Amaker is not the answer. He's on his third team. Probation or not at Michigan, he had time to make an impact and move the program forward. It moved sideways at best. He is not the answer.
Go for a top flight guy (unlikely to come), and if that falls through, get a top assistant known for recruiting. Coaching will take care of itself.
I'd rather get a coach known for his recruiting. Tired of going after assistants that have to be wet nursed on the job. Let them cut their teeth in the mid majors on how to coach, not up here. If we were in the dumps, I'm fine with an assistant. If we're at where we are at, I hate the assist. coach route.
I don't disagree with you on Amaker, just asking the question. Appreciate the response.
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How about the Morehead State guy?
How 'bout just Morehead?
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Ners--We probably agree on the big picture more than you think. We just have difference of opinion on how to accomplish the goal. I think money rules the coaching world and you believe we are destined to hire assistants on mid major guys every 3-4 years.
We also agree on the greatness of the 70's and the Al legacy. Think positively, you are correct more than you think:)
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Think positively, you are correct more than you think:)
Au contraire Goose. Ners always thinks he's correct.
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Au contraire Goose. Ners always thinks he's correct.
I guess when it comes to being a Buzz Williams fanboy..and having defended the hell out of Buzz on this board for the last 1.5 years...I have been pretty "correct." Seems Buzz is thought of pretty highly in basketball circles..and likely will have a few offers to consider other than MU. Yet we've had some fans ripping the hell out of him on this board..questioning if he should be fired/or be on the hot seat?? WOW.
As far as predictions..not so right...optimistically went for 12-6 this year in Big East...
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I thought of him as well....I don't like the Matta linkage because I don't trust Matta's recruiting at all, but Groce has done some good things in the MAC.
DeCourcy will pump Groce as a candidate .... friends taking care of friends
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Ners---Does Buzz stay or go?
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How 'bout just Morehead?
would mellow out some of the uptight motherunnatural carnal knowledgeers on this board.
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Ners---Does Buzz stay or go?
I believe he stays. Too many relationships developed within the MU community, within greater MKE, has laid too much groundwork/foundation to the program/recruiting - to walk away now. His recruiting will likely only get easier at MU - now that he's proven himself as a coach (contrary to what some may think), and he has a good nucleus of young talent on the roster..along with the incoming class.
Think getting Todd Mayo here could have more value than we may ever realize - as that was a pretty heated recruiting battle and we won. We missed on a few in the fall - Faust, Hood, Shaw - but getting Mayo who many feel was the best prospect available..and beating WVU, Memphis, etc..for his services had to be encouraging to Buzz. Buzz does feel he can get talent to MKE/MU...which is a positive..though he might have to work harder to get it here..which would be the negative.
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I guess when it comes to being a Buzz Williams fanboy..and having defended the hell out of Buzz on this board for the last 1.5 years...I have been pretty "correct." Seems Buzz is thought of pretty highly in basketball circles..and likely will have a few offers to consider other than MU. Yet we've had some fans ripping the hell out of him on this board..questioning if he should be fired/or be on the hot seat?? WOW.
As far as predictions..not so right...optimistically went for 12-6 this year in Big East...
5% have called for his firing. You're always going to have 5% that are so in love they don't know what to do (like you) and 5% that want him fired. Look at McCarthy's support from Packers fans the the last few years.
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Let's not be naive. Money talks and bullsheet walks.
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would mellow out some of the uptight motherfrackers on this board.
Couldn't agree more. More head.
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5% have called for his firing. You're always going to have 5% that are so in love they don't know what to do (like you) and 5% that want him fired. Look at McCarthy's support from Packers fans the the last few years.
Agree on the 5% fired percentage..think you could add about 15% more of fan base who thought hot seat...and add about 30% more of the fan base who significantly questioned Buzz's coaching ability, and even recruiting practices (like you.)
In my view roughly 50% of our fanbase...as measured by this board (which is probably the most passionate core of our fanbase), was starting to get restless/voice some serious displeasure.
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Probably discussed before but what would Buzz be getting into at either Arkansas or Oklahoma?(recruits, players remaining, facility wise, NCAA violations) and how does Marquette compare from an unbiased opinion? And why isn't Josh Pastner's name coming up for these jobs -- especially Arkansas or Tenn.?
It's not like these other schools are in the top "5 -7" range in terms of coaching jobs; and Marquette compares pretty favorably. I would be more worried if this was Texas coming after him.
Just seems if Marquette wants to keep Buzz they have the resources to do it. Makes me question what kind of relationship Buzz and C-Ham have.
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Shack...MU's biggest problems are that it is a bad recruiting area and doesn't have a football team that can guaranty its long term stability in a major conference. Arkansas and Oklahoma are closer to Texas, which Buzz knows like the back of his hand, and both are in solid conferences. Arkansas also has a much better on-campus arena.
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Let's not be naive. Money talks and bullsheet walks.
Would he really leave for money though? I think MU would match anything Oklahoma or Arkansas would offer, I can't see them paying more than $2M for a coach with Buzz's limited resume. If Buzz leaves, he leaves, but I don't think it's for money. Maybe to be closer to home and his strongest recruiting region, but not money.
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MU isn't in a bad recruiting area, Buzz just has more contacts in Texas/Oklahoma than he does in Chicago.
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MU isn't in a bad recruiting area, Buzz just has more contacts in Texas/Oklahoma than he does in Chicago.
There is nothing great about MKE as a recruiting area...lots of challenges...limited in state talent...small school...weather....girls...
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No, not money alone. But all things considered, to me it's a foregone conclusion. Ark, OK, and Tenn have unlimited resources.
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Shack...MU's biggest problems are that it is a bad recruiting area and doesn't have a football team that can guaranty its long term stability in a major conference. Arkansas and Oklahoma are closer to Texas, which Buzz knows like the back of his hand, and both are in solid conferences. Arkansas also has a much better on-campus arena.
Good points. I've heard Buzz mention on his radio show what a pain in the ass it is to recruit guys from the South based on where he lives. He has to hop on a plane and spend maybe an hour with them at most, rather than being able to drive to a game/recruit after practice.
Maybe we need a coach with some better Chicago connections. Wisconsin is limited but we should be doing better in Chicago/Indianapolis region than what we are currently doing. Crean did well at that..obviously.
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Ners---Why the negative vibe on state high school talent? We have far more talent locally than we had 30 years ago. Buzz has done well in WI landing some talent for us.
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I think Buzz will stick around now that he finally has a roster he build and see where he can go with it. He doesn't strike me as the type of person that finally
reaches one of his goals in life and then turns it around to be all about him.His talent is finally real competitive, and I think he sticks around to see what he can do with it.
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Ners---Why the negative vibe on state high school talent? We have far more talent locally than we had 30 years ago. Buzz has done well in WI landing some talent for us.
Generally WI turns out about 2 legitimate high major players per year....compare that to a state like Indiana (even with similar population as WI), that turns out 5-10 on average...plus factor in that MU isn't the "flagship" university of WI..very challenging.
Memphis..for example can field a very talented team..just based off of Memphis talent alone.
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Agree with Randy... that Buzz had done a very good job recruiting talent and has a team that he has built. Buzz will want to stay with "his" team. After all, he is a young coach and is positioning to take Marquette to the top ten again. Hope he can land an "air craft carrier" that will make MU a real power.
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He has to hop on a plane and spend maybe an hour with them at most, rather than being able to drive to a game/recruit after practice.
Norman and Fayetteville are not the solution to that problem. If Buzz wants to make drives, then talented players are farther away from Norman than Chicago now. He will still be getting on planes to get his recruiting done at OU. It's a shorter flight to Texas from there, but still a plane ride.
Buzz has gotten Vander, J-May, and Jamil Wilson to commit. He has gotten reasonably far with Tokoto and Mike Shaw. He is not doing bad with the local guys. He won't win them all unless he can throw up "hook em horns."
I would imagine he would get pretty much the same amount of local talent at OU that he is getting here. UNC/Duke caliber players are no more likely to commit to OU compared to Madison or Marquette. He will still lose those. OU and Ark would not end his plane rides.
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I would imagine he would get pretty much the same amount of local talent at OU that he is getting here. UNC/Duke caliber players are no more likely to commit to OU compared to Madison or Marquette. He will still lose those. OU and Ark would not end his plane rides.
Actually, they probably are if they come from Oklahoma or Arkansas.
Of the four all-time McDonald's AAs from Wisconsin, UW had landed two, MU none.
Of the five all time from Arkansas, the University of Arkansas has landed four.
Of the eight all time from Oklahoma, OU has landed 3. (Kansas got three others. UNC/Duke got none).
Being the flagship state university, especially in an area that lacks major pro sports, is a big advantage when recruiting in-state kids.
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Ners, I think you are being generous about the two, high major players per year. I think it is one or two a year. For instance, in this years class, Wisconsin has produced Jesperson from Merrill who is going to Virginia...and possibly Lomomba from Memorial...although nothing has been determined yet. For 2012 there is Tokoto and...Duane Wilson?
Chicago produces a lot of talent, but NOTHING compared to Texas. For instance, in the 2010 Rivals 150, 13 came from Texas, 6 from Illinois and 1 from Wisconsin.
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Norman and Fayetteville are not the solution to that problem. If Buzz wants to make drives, then talented players are farther away from Norman than Chicago now.
I mentioned this in another post, but Texas has more top talent than Chicago does. Not even close.
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Would he really leave for money though? I think MU would match anything Oklahoma or Arkansas would offer, I can't see them paying more than $2M for a coach with Buzz's limited resume. If Buzz leaves, he leaves, but I don't think it's for money. Maybe to be closer to home and his strongest recruiting region, but not money.
Last year DePaul was rumored to be willing go as high as $2.5 million/year for a top line coach. Everyone turned them down. They wound up paying $1.7m for Oliver Purnell.
Not a bad hire and has a lot longer resume than Buzz. Cannot see him worth $2/year right now.
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With his decision yo leave or stay , Buzz Williams "character will be revealed." Like he says its not about the Buzz Williams rock in the bottle, but all the other rocks and the sand and the water that are important. Does Buzz believe his own "life lessons" or are they just a bunch of hot air? We will soon find out.
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With his decision yo leave or stay , Buzz Williams "character will be revealed."
Why? As long as he stands by the terms of his contract, he is under no moral obligation to remain here.
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Nevermind ::)
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I think (and hear) there's almost no chance Buzz leaves for Arkansas or Tennessee. Oklahoma is another story - they would be very hard to say no to. I agree with mug though - if he leaves he's not the guy I thought he was.
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Ners, I think you are being generous about the two, high major players per year. I think it is one or two a year. For instance, in this years class, Wisconsin has produced Jesperson from Merrill who is going to Virginia...and possibly Lomomba from Memorial...although nothing has been determined yet. For 2012 there is Tokoto and...Duane Wilson?
Jesperson.. Elgin cook in 2011. Lomomba is a 2012, bro. And depends on how you define WI players...
2012.. Tokoto (UNC), Dekker (WI), Lomomba.. Cinmeon Bowers, Arroyo Edwards possibilities... call Phillip Nolan a non-WI kid if you want, but..
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Elgin Cook doesn't live in this state anymore. He moved to Texas.