Who cares? Why does anyone think this is important? Let your in March do the rankings.
Who cares? Why does anyone think this is important? Let your in March do the rankings.
#1
Because Marquette will always be number one in my heart.
Who cares? Why does anyone think this is important? Let your play in March do the rankings.
Who cares? Why does anyone think this is important? Let your play in March do the rankings.
thanks, coach.
Who cares? Why does anyone think this is important? Let your play in March do the rankings.
College and professional athletics, at their essence, are children's games played by young adults for the spectator's entertainment. In the grand scheme of the world, none of us should care about any of the games and none of it is relatively important in the least.
But we do care because we as fans like to see the institutions and teams we root for do well. One of the ways we can gauge how Marquette is doing is by the the two major polls. One of those polls is by the writers who cover the sport as journalists more extensively than any of us could. The other is by the coaches who coach the sport at a higher level than any of us could. So when Marquette, our school and our team, is doing well in the polls, well, it matters to us. And on a small level it is important as it keeps us connected and gives us entertainment.
Also, on a more practical level, if a team is ranked for most of the season, it is a lot more likely that the selection committee will look favorably on them and put them in the tournament. There are not a lot of slots given to unranked teams that do not win their conference's automatic bid.
In addition, ranked teams get vastly more media exposure. This media exposure leads to greater ticket sales and more merchandise sales. It also helps recruit not just athletes, but students who may not otherwise consider Marquette for college.
So it does matter, in a sense. In fact, it matters a lot.
In addition, ranked teams get vastly more media exposure. This media exposure leads to greater ticket sales and more merchandise sales. It also helps recruit not just athletes, but students who may not otherwise consider Marquette for college.
So it does matter, in a sense. In fact, it matters a lot.
higher than we deserve.
College and professional athletics, at their essence, are children's games played by young adults for the spectator's entertainment. In the grand scheme of the world, none of us should care about any of the games and none of it is relatively important in the least.
But we do care because we as fans like to see the institutions and teams we root for do well. One of the ways we can gauge how Marquette is doing is by the the two major polls. One of those polls is by the writers who cover the sport as journalists more extensively than any of us could. The other is by the coaches who coach the sport at a higher level than any of us could. So when Marquette, our school and our team, is doing well in the polls, well, it matters to us. And on a small level it is important as it keeps us connected and gives us entertainment.
Also, on a more practical level, if a team is ranked for most of the season, it is a lot more likely that the selection committee will look favorably on them and put them in the tournament. There are not a lot of slots given to unranked teams that do not win their conference's automatic bid.
In addition, ranked teams get vastly more media exposure. This media exposure leads to greater ticket sales and more merchandise sales. It also helps recruit not just athletes, but students who may not otherwise consider Marquette for college.
So it does matter, in a sense. In fact, it matters a lot.
higher than we deserve.and lower than we desire.
College and professional athletics, at their essence, are children's games played by young adults for the spectator's entertainment. In the grand scheme of the world, none of us should care about any of the games and none of it is relatively important in the least.
But we do care because we as fans like to see the institutions and teams we root for do well. One of the ways we can gauge how Marquette is doing is by the the two major polls. One of those polls is by the writers who cover the sport as journalists more extensively than any of us could. The other is by the coaches who coach the sport at a higher level than any of us could. So when Marquette, our school and our team, is doing well in the polls, well, it matters to us. And on a small level it is important as it keeps us connected and gives us entertainment.
Also, on a more practical level, if a team is ranked for most of the season, it is a lot more likely that the selection committee will look favorably on them and put them in the tournament. There are not a lot of slots given to unranked teams that do not win their conference's automatic bid.
In addition, ranked teams get vastly more media exposure. This media exposure leads to greater ticket sales and more merchandise sales. It also helps recruit not just athletes, but students who may not otherwise consider Marquette for college.
So it does matter, in a sense. In fact, it matters a lot.
Orville, Harvard, Yale, and Princeton would disagree with you.
Everyone knows that polls aren't accurate. But, they do count.
Who cares? Why does anyone think this is important? Let your play in March do the rankings.
Who cares? Why does anyone think this is important? Let your play in March do the rankings.It effects ESPN coverage.
Aww... This comment was so great, I immediately, involuntarily showed my support for MU by tossing my cookies just like Junior.
Harvard, Yale, and Princeton would disagree with you.
The reason I went with the hyperbole is just because these threads are getting really repetitive. Maybe we should have one "Marquette Ranking" thread in which people can discuss where they think we'll be ranked and where we are ranked on Mondays when the polls come out. Right now, we're seeing 2-3 threads every week about "Where will we be ranked", followed by "AP has MU at XX" and "Coaches Poll -- Marquette #XX". Becoming more than a little bit of a broken record.
Disagree. Every week should have its own thread for both the ranking and out come.
No one is forcing you to read them.
Why?
At the same time, let's do the same for threads on Vander.....either ban them completely, or limit them to one loooooong thread. :)
I'm honestly asking. What's wrong with one thread? Is it the lack of maturity in posters? The fear of it going off topic? Change the title every week to indicate the current ranking and to promote relevant discussion. The Scout Insider board has one thread that is a catch-all for recruiting tidbits. It's probably around 800+ posts long, but always stays on topic. Just make sure your settings have the maximum posts per page and go to the last page of the thread for current discussion. You can do that directly from the Hangin' board, so why is it a problem?
It really seems like people have a need to start threads for some form of online self-validation. It's not just here, it's all over the Internet. On the Scout free board, I'm pretty sure that the only form of self-validation MuggsyB ever gets is starting threads, because he'll start them on anything, from Vander Blue, to Jimmy Butler, to LeBron James, to what type of berries he likes to put in his breakfast cereal.
One large thread, possibly incorporating the votes of the media involved (similar to how Enlund does) to further encourage discussion seems like a far more engaging and enjoyable prospect. Every week you can use the one thread to look at the voting trends, see which writers like and dislike Marquette, even post up all their Twitter handles so we know who to spam with #mubb posts on a weekly basis.
It's just a lot easier for users to have one thread where they know a certain topic is being discussed. And as for your point with Vander threads (or any others, for that matter), I mostly agree. When I start a thread, I usually do a search first to make sure there isn't a relevant thread already in existence where I can continue discussion rather than starting another discussion we've already had 18 gazillion times.
We don't need a poll each week. This thread doesn't have a poll. And because it's a fluid topic, it doesn't matter if it gets off-topic, because every Monday there's a new discussion to be had. And if half the posters each week are complaining about the endless litany of threads, clearly it IS broken.
I don't have a phobia of threads, but why keep making new ones if they aren't necessary, and by the same token, why the obsession with making new threads? Just saying that if there are viable alternatives and half the posts in these threads are either facetious or denigrate the nature of the thread, maybe it's time to explore other options.
So, Augie... what do you think we deserve
hard to say with any certainty..., but the way we've been playing my gut says towards bottom of top 30 or so.
I'm honestly asking. What's wrong with one thread?
+1
Its completely irrelevant that were ranked right now, we may not even have what qualifies as a quality win yet. Madison will become on (hopefully) when they get their act together as they always do, but right now our next best win is Washington...
I'm honestly asking. What's wrong with one thread? Is it the lack of maturity in posters? The fear of it going off topic? Change the title every week to indicate the current ranking and to promote relevant discussion. The Scout Insider board has one thread that is a catch-all for recruiting tidbits. It's probably around 800+ posts long, but always stays on topic. Just make sure your settings have the maximum posts per page and go to the last page of the thread for current discussion. You can do that directly from the Hangin' board, so why is it a problem?is your need of one thread a sign of senility?
It really seems like people have a need to start threads for some form of online self-validation. It's not just here, it's all over the Internet. On the Scout free board, I'm pretty sure that the only form of self-validation MuggsyB ever gets is starting threads, because he'll start them on anything, from Vander Blue, to Jimmy Butler, to LeBron James, to what type of berries he likes to put in his breakfast cereal.
One large thread, possibly incorporating the votes of the media involved (similar to how Enlund does) to further encourage discussion seems like a far more engaging and enjoyable prospect. Every week you can use the one thread to look at the voting trends, see which writers like and dislike Marquette, even post up all their Twitter handles so we know who to spam with #mubb posts on a weekly basis.
It's just a lot easier for users to have one thread where they know a certain topic is being discussed. And as for your point with Vander threads (or any others, for that matter), I mostly agree. When I start a thread, I usually do a search first to make sure there isn't a relevant thread already in existence where I can continue discussion rather than starting another discussion we've already had 18 gazillion times.
It effects ESPN coverage.
ESPN game schedule is set prior to the season.But _does_ effect ESPN's news coverage, which is probably his point.
Agreed! Seriously moderators... can we stop these stupid threads from popping up each week?
AP 17 / Coaches 18
+/- 1 on either of those, depends on how bad UConn is punished for losing two to unranked teams.
Badger should sneak in this week after taking down Illinois.
Indeed. Their beatdown of Northwestern was also impressive.
Indeed. Their beatdown of Northwestern was also impressive.
Big Ten may be consistently decent, but there's not a single great team.
I think tOSU and MSU are really good. After that...there's probably another 5-6 teams that are tourney teams, but I'm not sure any are better than a 6-seed. That conference is really deep, but it isn't particularly good, if that makes sense.
I think that at the top, the Big 12, Big East, and SEC are all better than the Big Ten. Heck, even the ACC is, though it's probably only a 4-bid league.
Marquette 19 in Seth Davis latest.
IU 20
Illinois, UConn Out
Will Dukey V finally vote for us this week?
AP 17 / Coaches 18
14. We'll pass Miss State in coaches, and in both we'll pass Indiana, SDSU, and Georgetown.
On another poll note, I believe Bracketbusters are announced Monday. I would drool over a St. Mary's / Murray State matchup.
UNLV needed overtime to survive Air Force, but survive it they did.
My prediction is #15 AP / #14 Coaches. The question will be how far the Pitt loss drops Georgetown. I think getting 2 Big East wins this week and GT losing their only game will allow us to slip past them.
Agreed. 14-15.
What I really want, is to be a at least a 4 seed, so we are a favorite until the Elite 8. For that to happen I think we need to be ranked 15 or better. I know ranking and seeding aren't directly linked, but that would be a good indicator.
3 seed is probably the best we can do and what i would hope for.
I think you've got MU and Georgetown a bit too high. We'll be behind Murray St., Creighton and UNLV.
16 AP / 15 coaches.
Is it just me or does MU always seem to be the one team that voters punish more than any other when they lose just one game?? They always seem to drop 4-5+ spots, where as other teams lose, and will only drop a spot or two, regardless of what other ranked teams around them did that week. I will bet anyone that MU will drop more spots losing @ Notre Dame(even though other ranked teams ahead of them and behind them lost), than will UW for losing at home to Ohio State.
I get that Ohio State is #3 in the country, and ND is un ranked, but I also understand ND has beaten 5 ranked teams this year more than any other team in the country, and I also know how hard it is to win at ND, so why don't the voters?? It's not like MU just lost to DuhPaul.
Funny but i feel marquette would handle teams 18-12 quite easily.
Murray State is garbage, and should not be ranked higher than 15 out of principle.
Funny but i feel marquette would handle teams 18-12 quite easily.
I like your confidence, but we couldn't even beat Villanova, Seton Hall and Washington "quite easily," not to mention the games we've lost.
When we're on, we can beat most teams. When we're not, we can lose to lots and lots of teams. Same can be said of most teams in the country -- including, obviously, Notre Dame.
Murray State is garbage, and should not be ranked higher than 15 out of principle.
They won every game they played, what else do you want them to do?
Who cares? Good to see them playin' like Warriors. Looks like there's plenty left in the tank and they're no where near shootin' their load.
Davis' list looks pretty good. But I really think he has to get Louisville in there with the way they're playing lately.
Seth Davis Top 25:Key to both those lists is what Brew was hoping - Murray State and Florida both pummeling. If that is true on a lot of ballots, then 12/12 is even possible.
1. UK 2. Syr 3. Mizzou 4. Kansas 5. Mich St 6. Ohio St 7. Duke 8. UNC 9. Baylor 10. UNLV 11. Gtown 12. Marq 13. Mich 14. SDSU 15. Fla 16. Murray St 17. Fla St 18. UVa 19. Wisc 20. Indiana 21. ND 22. Wich St 23. St. Mary's 24. Temple 25. VCU
Dropped Out: Creighton and Miss. State
Also considered: George Mason, Nevada, Iowa St, Weber St, Louisville
He had MU at 18 last week.
Goodman/Parrish Top 25(and one):
1.Kentucky (25-1)
2.Syracuse (25-1)
3.Missouri (23-2)
4.Duke (21-4)
5.Michigan State (20-5)
6.Ohio State (21-4)
7.North Carolina (21-4)
8.Kansas (20-5)
9.Baylor (21-4)
10.Georgetown (19-5)
11.Wisconsin (19-6)
12.UNLV (22-4)
13.Michigan (19-7)
14.Marquette (21-5)
15.Indiana (19-6)
16.Virginia (19-5)
17.San Diego State (20-4)
18.Notre Dame (17-8)
19.Louisville (20-5)
20.Florida (19-6)
21.Murray State (24-1)
22.Florida State (17-7)
23.Saint Mary's (23-3)
24.Gonzaga (20-4)
25.Wichita State (22-4)
26.Temple (19-5)
ANd his nuthugging of Bo is just pathetic...does anybody believe UW is the 11th best team in the country even with their recent win streak?This irks me to no end... Yeah, I'll give 'em that the Big Ten is pretty good, but it bothers me mostly that they're Wisconsin Badgers. (And we beat them in their house.)
Jumped murray state but not florida (by two votes 388-386). Just keep winning baby!Jumping up six spots in a week...not bad.
yeah but not jumping florida is a bit odd - 19-6 with two straight losses - one to tennessee - but great jump - lets back it up with a win at UCONN, a team desperate
Can we move up this week?UNLV lost this week and I imagine we would jump Florida in the poll we are ranked 13th. Other teams we could jump if they lose today would be Baylor, Georgetown, and maybe UNC.
If Baylor loses today, we'll be 10. If they don't, we'll be 11.
A very legitimate 10.
I don't know, Jimmy Dykes said we didn't look like a top-15 team.
I don't know, Jimmy Dykes said we didn't look like a top-15 team.
I'd rather know what Chicos is figurin'.
Definitely top ten - when were we last there?
Wow, totally forgot about that. For some reason I thought we were ranked number 12 going into LSU.
What are our chances of leapfrogging Ohio St.?
Slim to none.
I don't know, Jimmy Dykes said we didn't look like a top-15 team.
Who is Jimmy Dykes? Should I feel dumb not knowing? If so, I am feeling dumb.An ESPN announcer. He said that earlier this year during a game he called. Might have been after the LSU or Norfolk State game.
I'd say more like one out of a million(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/450651/lloydchristmas_medium.gif)
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/450651/lloydchristmas_medium.gif)
We could pass Mizzou and Ohio St. if they lose this weekend. So max of seven, probably. Right now we'd move up one spot to 9, pending the weekend results.
Could end up 7th if the Badgers get lucky against OSU.
might fall, because they lost a game earlier in the week. However, if you are ranked 3 and lose on the road to the number 2 team by one in overtime, you would think you would not fall at all based on that game. Of course that is not how the polls work.
They won't fall based on it, but it won't help them, either, and it does make for 2 losses in a week. Normally, that loss drops them 1 spot (behind KU) but when coupled with another loss could drop them further.
Looks like we have a legitimate shot at 8 with Osu loss.The two teams in front of us lost. I would say we are a lock for 8. It is just a matter of how far Mizzou slips after two losses.
Seth Davis has MU at 8 and Goodman/Parrish have MU at 9 in this weeks poll.
And have Baylor ahead of us ?-(
For all the complaining they do about other people's brackets, their own can be pretty senseless at times.
Well, they've only lost to Mizzou, Kansas and kansas st. Their RPI is 8, SOS 14, are 7-5 against the top 50 and have a road/neutral record of 11-2. I don't agree they should be ahead of us based on recent results, but I really don't have a problem with someone having them ranked ahead of us based on the numbers I just cited.
7th in the Coaches Poll. Unbelievable.
Where are you seeing this...ESPN still has last week's poll up.
Where are you seeing this...ESPN still has last week's poll up.
Wow, actually made it to #7. So obligatory question: when was the last time we were ranked that high in either poll?
OSU@IU and UNC@Duke this week, could move up a couple more spots if we take care of business
we're already ranked ahead of OSU and IU, so I'm not sure how that game affects us.
I think he meant OSU/MSU or MSU/IU.Woops, some sort of a combo there. Yes MSU@IU and OSU@MSU.
Wow, actually made it to #7. So obligatory question: when was the last time we were ranked that high in either poll?
I say 8.
We should be #8/#8. If OSU beats MSU I can settle for #9. Mizzou was only 2 points behind in Coach's and will pass us. With Scotty C going off and ISU beating Baylor, there is nobody else behind us beside's OSU that has any business being ranked ahead of us.
We'll miss them, how could any program not, but we'll be better than people think. Again.
When was the last time MU was overrated in a pre-season poll??? I honestly can't remember, but the vast majority MU is underrated. Better question......when will the voters learn??? It's pretty pitiful.
When was the last time MU was overrated in a pre-season poll??? I honestly can't remember, but the vast majority MU is underrated. Better question......when will the voters learn??? It's pretty pitiful.
We'll definitely be overlooked nationally, but I meant people on here. I don't think next year will be nearly the transition/rebuilding year people are saying.Before this season, as with every season, I was reading how excited some were for the future. "Next year's team will be awesome". Then, as the season get's underway, it turn's to "we do not have any leaders. The Senior(s) need to take over." As the season progresses, it becomes "How will we replace the Senior(s) next year? It will be a rebuilding year." Then over the summer, we hear about how so and so is tearing it up. Will be the next stud. The merry go round just continues.
Before this season, as with every season, I was reading how excited some were for the future. "Next year's team will be awesome". Then, as the season get's underway, it turn's to "we do not have any leaders. The Senior(s) need to take over." As the season progresses, it becomes "How will we replace the Senior(s) next year? It will be a rebuilding year." Then over the summer, we hear about how so and so is tearing it up. Will be the next stud. The merry go round just continues.
10/10
Anybody have the link for the website that lists each AP writer's top 25? I seem to remember something like that from the end of last year, but I can't seem to find it.
Anybody have the link for the website that lists each AP writer's top 25? I seem to remember something like that from the end of last year, but I can't seem to find it.
I will go ahead and give my top 25 following Feast Week. This assumes UCONN, Indiana, Gonzaga, UCLA, Illinois, Colorado and California all win their relatively easy games this evening.
1. Duke (6-0)
2. Indiana (6-0)
3. Michigan (5-0)
4. Syracuse (4-0)
5. Louisville (5-1)
6. Ohio State (4-0)
7. Florida (5-0)
8. Arizona (3-0)
9. Kentucky (4-1)
10. Gonzaga (6-0)
11. Cincinnati (6-0)
12. North Carolina (5-1)
13. Creighton (6-0)
14. Illinois (7-0)
15. Kansas (4-1)
16. North Carolina State (4-1)
17. Missouri (5-1)
18. Colorado (5-0)
19. UCONN (5-1)
20. UCLA (5-1)
21. Michigan State (5-1)
22. UNLV (3-1)
23. Oklahoma State (5-0)
24. Marquette (4-1)
25. Minnesota (5-1)
Other notables: San Diego State (4-1), California (6-0), New Mexico (6-0), Notre Dame (5-1),Wichita State (6-0)
Don't really know how we could be ranked and Butler is not...
MU received 7....7 total votes in the AP
http://youtu.be/sBjNpZ5t9S4 (http://youtu.be/sBjNpZ5t9S4)
Hey Mike Hunt......
One of the things that Enlund did was post how other sports writers voted each week. That was good info.
Would appreciate it if you do so too. Nice job so far this season.
Bilas has MU at 19 in the Bilas Index as of today:
Marquette played in the consolation bracket of the Maui Invitational because Butler's Rotnei Clarke hit a crazy shot to win the opening game (one that was well defended). But for that shot, it would have been Marquette playing Illinois for the title. The Golden Eagles have good guards, a load in Davante Gardner and an emerging star in Vander Blue. Despite the loss to Butler, this is a very good team.
You get 1 vote for each place essentially
#1 gets 25 votes/voter
#25 gets 1 vote/voter
1 voter at #18 = 8 votes
Randy Rosetta really likes Marquette apparently. He is still the only voter for Marquette, and has us at #18 this week.
http://www.pollspeak.com/component/option,com_psreport/Itemid,3/lang,en/p,49/r,V/s,22/t1,122/t2,/v,142/w,6/
RealTime has MU at #27 in their Power Rankings...
http://realtimerpi.com/ncaab/Men.html
I always wonder what version of RPI they are running since it is so out of skew with the others. RPI Forecast has us at 91. Warren Nolan's RPI version has us at 90. Team Rankings RPI has us at 90. Statsheet RPI has us at 89. CBS RPI only goes to the top 68 and we aren't in there (assuming we are at 90 or 91). Realtime has something very funky with their formula that no one else in the RPI world uses.Their RPI has MU at 93. Point is, RPI in December is meaningless. The #27 is their Power Ranking which is stats based.
CBS RPI only goes to the top 68 and we aren't in there (assuming we are at 90 or 91).
Their RPI has MU at 93. Point is, RPI in December is meaningless.
College and professional athletics, at their essence, are children's games played by young adults for the spectator's entertainment. In the grand scheme of the world, none of us should care about any of the games and none of it is relatively important in the least.
But we do care because we as fans like to see the institutions and teams we root for do well. One of the ways we can gauge how Marquette is doing is by the the two major polls. One of those polls is by the writers who cover the sport as journalists more extensively than any of us could. The other is by the coaches who coach the sport at a higher level than any of us could. So when Marquette, our school and our team, is doing well in the polls, well, it matters to us. And on a small level it is important as it keeps us connected and gives us entertainment.
Also, on a more practical level, if a team is ranked for most of the season, it is a lot more likely that the selection committee will look favorably on them and put them in the tournament. There are not a lot of slots given to unranked teams that do not win their conference's automatic bid.
In addition, ranked teams get vastly more media exposure. This media exposure leads to greater ticket sales and more merchandise sales. It also helps recruit not just athletes, but students who may not otherwise consider Marquette for college.
So it does matter, in a sense. In fact, it matters a lot.
I like that post. Very Jerry Maguire Mission Statement-ish....
#33 in the USA Today/ESPN poll. Kind of a slap in the face--plays into Buzz's hands.
#33 in the USA Today/ESPN poll. Kind of a slap in the face--plays into Buzz's hands.
#33 in the USA Today/ESPN poll. Kind of a slap in the face--plays into Buzz's hands.
Really, do you really believe we are a Top #25 team?Nope, not at all, but thought we deserved to be a little higher outside the top 25 after beating two quality Big East opponents.
Really, do you really believe we are a Top #25 team? Might have to win a game on the road to do that, secondly MU barely beat both teams, easily could have been 0-2! They shoot
the ball like a bunch of 9th graders, long way in my mind that they are even a Top 50 team.
Why, who should we be ranked above? Losing to Green Bay will leave a sour taste for many voters and rightly so.Well, it depends on how you view rankings. I personally beleive that quality wins should be valued more highly than bad losses. A lot of the teams in front of us have pretty weak schedules and it's just been a matter of taking care of business against cupcakes, which doesn't impress me. See Wichita State, PITT, Maryland, VCU. Ultimately, I don't care since these easy schedules that get you in the polls earlier in the year may doom your tourney chances come March (EDIT: cough, cough Cincy). Admittedly, the Green Bay loss was bad and that alone should keep us out of the top 25, but not behind these teams who either haven't been tested or have failed their tests.
Beat UWGB (even by 1) and this team is ranked. 12-2 with losses to #11 and #14 plus a win over #19 gets you in the top 25.Exactly right.
Beat UWGB (even by 1) and this team is ranked. 12-2 with losses to #11 and #14 plus a win over #19 gets you in the top 25.
I agree that they're not a top 25 team, but they're top 50 without a doubt. You're going to have a real hard time finding 50 teams better than MU and once you get past 30 or so you're sifting through a lot of really mediocre teams that have as many issues, if not more, than Marquette.
Lets see how they play on the road? They easily can lose them all, not sure where they play DePaul, but 2 years ago MU lost there, so if they go 9-9 in the Big East (where I thinkYou do realize that this team is slowly coming together after a non-conference period of soul-searching, right? Assuming, a few players step up and start hitting shots, which I see happening (it cannot get much worse), this team can be top 25 good. MU, under Buzz, is notorious for starting out slow, but they're always playing their best basketball in February and March. This year looks no different. In fact, Buzz may have them a little ahead of the curve at this point in the year. I just don't get how you can be so negative after two quality wins despite abysmal shooting. Wilson, Lockett, Blue, and Mayo will be decent to good shooters at the end of the year and couple that with our staunch defense, and I like what's developing here.
they will end up) maybe 8-10th in the league, I can see almost 16-17 teams better than MU in the Big East and Big 10, so in saying that are 30 other teams better we will see? Hope
I am wrong.
Really, do you really believe we are a Top #25 team? Might have to win a game on the road to do that, secondly MU barely beat both teams, easily could have been 0-2! They shoot
the ball like a bunch of 9th graders, long way in my mind that they are even a Top 50 team.
You do realize that this team is slowly coming together after a non-conference period of soul-searching, right? Assuming, a few players step up and start hitting shots, which I see happening (it cannot get much worse), this team can be top 25 good. MU, under Buzz, is notorious for starting out slow, but they're always playing their best basketball in February and March. This year looks no different. In fact, Buzz may have them a little ahead of the curve at this point in the year. I just don't get how you can be so negative after two quality wins despite abysmal shooting. Wilson, Lockett, Blue, and Mayo will be decent to good shooters at the end of the year and couple that with our staunch defense, and I like what's developing here.
Not far off from a top 25 team. Watch more college bball besides Marquette and you will see that there just aren't that many good teams. MU beats Green Bay and they're in the 19-16 range. I don't think it is a stretch at all that Marquette is currently the 25th best team in the land.
GTown was way overated.What are you basing this assertion on? I think they're a very good team that struggled shooting the ball against us, due in part to our defense. They took IU to overtime and beat everyone else they've played including UCLA before coming into MKE.
What are you basing this assertion on? I think they're a very good team that struggled shooting the ball against us, due in part to our defense. They took IU to overtime and beat everyone else they've played including UCLA before coming into MKE.
Hope you are right. Saturday will be a good test, so Pitt play Saturday and I was not overhelmed, thought they would be better. Adams there center is way overated, the rest of the team was average. It shows that incoming freshman have a long way to go before they are the difference. Maybe the kids Kentucky recruit, not this year, but last can live up to the hype. Shazbuzz Muhammend and Kyle Anderson are good players but it sounds like they might be both top 5 picks in the draft, I feel bad for those teams that have to pay them that kind of money. There good and might be great in 4 years, but not now.???
Any upsets in the top 25? Will we sneak in this week?
#19 Georgetown lost to us and Pitt at home.
#24 UNLV lost at New Mexico.
#25 New Mexico lost at Saint Louis
#19 Georgetown lost to us and Pitt at home.
#24 UNLV lost at New Mexico.
#25 New Mexico lost at Saint Louis
#13 Illinois getting whooped up by Badgers right now. Itd be kinda nice if they did well today for RPI purposes
We'll be ranked. I'd guess 22-24 range.
I think there is a rule that teams that lose to UWGB can not be ranked.
guessing "also receiving votes" still. One more solid win and we are in the top 25 again.
Down go the Domers at home to the Huskies.
College and professional athletics, at their essence, are children's games played by young adults for the spectator's entertainment. In the grand scheme of the world, none of us should care about any of the games and none of it is relatively important in the least.
But we do care because we as fans like to see the institutions and teams we root for do well. One of the ways we can gauge how Marquette is doing is by the the two major polls. One of those polls is by the writers who cover the sport as journalists more extensively than any of us could. The other is by the coaches who coach the sport at a higher level than any of us could. So when Marquette, our school and our team, is doing well in the polls, well, it matters to us. And on a small level it is important as it keeps us connected and gives us entertainment.
Also, on a more practical level, if a team is ranked for most of the season, it is a lot more likely that the selection committee will look favorably on them and put them in the tournament. There are not a lot of slots given to unranked teams that do not win their conference's automatic bid.
In addition, ranked teams get vastly more media exposure. This media exposure leads to greater ticket sales and more merchandise sales. It also helps recruit not just athletes, but students who may not otherwise consider Marquette for college.
So it does matter, in a sense. In fact, it matters a lot.
Gary Parrish has Marquette up to 20. Was 25 last weekLink? The top 25 (plus one) hasn't been updated on Cbssports.com yet.
Gary Parrish has Marquette up to 20. Was 25 last week
Wisconsin 26? Hmm, not sure how that helps Gary Parrish's credibility at all.
Wisconsin 26? Hmm, not sure how that helps Gary Parrish's credibility at all.
They beat ILLINOIS!...?
Yes, and barely beat Nebraska and Penn State the week prior. Sorry, I just don't see them at the #26 team in the country. More like #35. If they shoot well, which isn't that often, they can be dangerous, but if they are the #26 team in the country we have a crapload of average teams out there.
Marquette on the AP at 25. A little lower than I thought.Unranked in USA Today/ESPN poll. Hosed.
Goodman had us at 20 in his 25 +1.
Unranked in USA Today/ESPN poll. Hosed.
Beat Providence and hope someone in the 20-25 range loses and we are back in.Check! No team better to replace than ND.
I hope you're right but I also hope you're not because every time we get ranked, we just choke. And choking against USF tomorrow night is NOT acceptable.
...we've been ranked once this year and lost on the road in overtime to a top 20 team (started the year top 12).Fine, let me clarify: every time we get ranked, we seem to play the next game rather crappily. I.e. the Cinci game, scoring 13 points in the first half. Granted, we came back and went to OT, but still.
Last year we were ranked the entire year and went 14-4 in the Big East and finished 2nd in the Big East.
If that's how you define "choke" then I guess you're right.
Fine, let me clarify: every time we get ranked, we seem to play the next game rather crappily. I.e. the Cinci game, scoring 13 points in the first half. Granted, we came back and went to OT, but still.
Last year, we broke the top 10 and got absolutely embarrassed by Florida. It seems like the game after either becoming ranked or jumping in ranks sees a piss-poor performance that either ends in us barely squeaking by or getting utterly embarrassed on the court.
That's the way it feels at least.
What I think the rankings SHOULD be:
1) Kansas (18-1)
2) Michigan (19-1*)
3) Florida (16-2)
4) Indiana (18-2*)
5) Duke (17-2)
6) Syracuse (18-2)
7) Gonzaga (19-2)
8) Arizona (17-2)
9) Louisville (16-4)
10) Ohio State (15-4)
11) Oregon (18-2)
12) Butler (17-3)
13) Cincinnati (16-4)
14) Kansas State (15-4)
15) Michigan State (17-4*)
Things start to get extremely mucky at this point.
16) Wichita State (19-2)
17) Ole Miss (17-2)
18) Miami (15-3*)
19) Marquette (14-4)
20) NC State (16-4)
21) Missouri (15-4)
22) Pittsburgh (17-4)
23) Georgetown (14-4)
24) San Diego State (16-4)
25) New Mexico (17-3)
Other notables:
Minnesota (15-5), Creighton (18-3*), Notre Dame (16-4), Wisconsin (14-6), UCLA (16-5), Memphis (16-3), UNLV (16-4)
* Assumes:
Indiana over Michigan State
Michigan over Illinois
Miami over Florida State (Wanted to go other way)
No freaking way should UL still be a top 10 team after losing two this week and three in a row overall. MAYBE in the 15-20 range.
The bat computer says 23.
What I think the rankings SHOULD be:
1) Kansas (18-1)
2) Michigan (19-1*)
3) Florida (16-2)
4) Indiana (18-2*)
5) Duke (17-2)
6) Syracuse (18-2)
7) Gonzaga (19-2)
8) Arizona (17-2)
9) Louisville (16-4)
10) Ohio State (15-4)
11) Oregon (18-2)
12) Butler (17-3)
13) Cincinnati (16-4)
14) Kansas State (15-4)
15) Michigan State (17-4*)
Things start to get extremely mucky at this point.
16) Wichita State (19-2)
17) Ole Miss (17-2)
18) Miami (15-3*)
19) Marquette (14-4)
20) NC State (16-4)
21) Missouri (15-4)
22) Pittsburgh (17-4)
23) Georgetown (14-4)
24) San Diego State (16-4)
25) New Mexico (17-3)
Other notables:
Minnesota (15-5), Creighton (18-3*), Notre Dame (16-4), Wisconsin (14-6), UCLA (16-5), Memphis (16-3), UNLV (16-4)
* Assumes:
Indiana over Michigan State
Michigan over Illinois
Miami over Florida State (Wanted to go other way)
We WILL be ranked because we play Louisville on Stupor Bowl Sunday.
#25 in the USA Today poll!
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/ (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/)
First appearance in the coach's poll this year, no?Correct. And MUMountin, I was thinking the same thing. I know they have seven losses, but they deserved some recognition in the polls.
he USA TODAY Sports Board of Coaches is made up of 31 head coaches at Division I institutions. All are members of the National Association of Basketball Coaches. The board for the 2012-13 season: Tommy Amaker, Harvard; Tevester Anderson, Jackson State; Randy Bennett, Saint Mary''s; Eddie Biedenbach, North Carolina-Asheville; Jim Boeheim, Syracuse; Rick Byrd, Belmont; Tim Cluess, Iona; Keith Dambrot, Akron; Kermit Davis, Middle Tennessee; Steve Donahue, Boston College; Scott Drew, Baylor; Matt Driscoll, North Florida; Steve Fisher, San Diego State; Bruiser Flint, Drexel; Tim Floyd, Texas-El Paso; Mark Fox, Georgia; Ben Jacobson, Northern Iowa; Rob Jeter, Wisconsin-Milwaukee; Mike McConathy, Northwestern State; Bob McKillop, Davidson; Ron Fang Mitchell, Coppin State; Matt Painter, Purdue; Dave Paulsen, Bucknell; Saul Phillips, North Dakota State; Steve Pikiell, Stony Brook; Randy Rahe, Weber State; Herb Sendek, Arizona State; Shaka Smart, Virginia Commonwealth; Andrew Toole, Robert Morris; Don Verlin, Idaho; Bob Williams, UC-Santa Barbara.
Kermit Davis, Middle Tennessee
Butler is still # 9 and they lose to La Salle - what the hell is that!!!!
EDIT: Tied for #27 in USA Today poll28th actually.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/ (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/)
28th actually.Nice catch. Tie at 25 and at 28. Good grief.
I think we'll make a big jump in the AP Poll. My prediction is #19. I also think we climb back into the USA Today at #23.
With the Bove poll if we got the zags we would have 5 in the top 25 in the new conf7. 5 out of 10 I would say is pretty good. Even 4 is solid.
Gonzaga's not coming.
What I think the AP rankings will look like tomorrow:
1. Duke (21-2)*
2. Florida (19-3)
3. Indiana (20-3)
4. Gonzaga (23-2)
5. Michigan (21-3)
6. Arizona (21-2)*
7. Miami (19-3)
8. Syracuse (19-3)
9. Michigan State (20-4)
10. Kansas (19-4)
11. Kansas State (19-4)
12. Louisville (19-5)
13. Butler (20-4)
14. Ohio State (17-5)
15. Georgetown (17-4)
16. Oklahoma State (17-5)
17. Pittsburgh (20-5)
18. New Mexico (20-4)
19. Marquette (17-5)
20. Notre Dame (19-5)
21. Minnesota (18-6)*
22. Oregon (19-5)
23. Memphis (20-3)
24. Creighton (20-5)
25. Cincinnati (18-6)
Assumes Duke, Arizona and Minnesota win their games tonight.
What I think the AP rankings will look like tomorrow:
2. Florida (19-3)
Don't see any chance Notre Dame doesn't hop over us. We lose to Louisville by 20. Notre Dame beats Louisville. Not to mention all the publicity they got from the win because it went into 5 overtimes. Plus the hype that was surrounding Louisville because they were "back into form" after stomping us. Notre Dame will be higher.
#20 in the Coaches' Poll. Not too shabby.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/ (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/)
This is why you cannot EVER take the Coaches poll seriously...it's the AP that matters. On what planet should UW be ranked higher than MU?? MU has fewer losses, beat them head to head and is tied for the BE lead. UW won a game in OT on a lucky shot, big F'n deal.Well I am certainly no badger fan but they have 4 or 5 wins that are better than our best win. That could be why.
This is why you cannot EVER take the Coaches poll seriously...it's the AP that matters.
Well I am certainly no badger fan but they have 4 or 5 wins that are better than our best win. That could be why.
now stop making me think about them. ;D
This is why you cannot EVER take the Coaches poll seriously...it's the AP that matters. On what planet should UW be ranked higher than MU?? MU has fewer losses, beat them head to head and is tied for the BE lead. UW won a game in OT on a lucky shot, big F'n deal.
This is why you cannot EVER take the Coaches poll seriously...it's the AP that matters. On what planet should UW be ranked higher than MU?? MU has fewer losses, beat them head to head and is tied for the BE lead. UW won a game in OT on a lucky shot, big F'n deal.
As a side note - I actually agree with IU being ranked #1 even though they lost this week. They have some big wins after the last couple weeks and have not lost by more than 5 points. And having watched several of their games, Victor Oladipo is the most impressive player I've seen this year. Now I hope they lose out the rest of the way, as unlikely as that is (approaching 0%).
Head to head won't matter in the polls. Too many other things to consider. ND just beat Louisville, but Louisville is still ranked ahead of ND and should be. Just one example.
I agree with this. They have two lottery picks (neither of whom are freshmen), two 4 year senior starters and a McDonald's AA freshman as starters and one of the top 6th men in the country. In a year without much at the top they stand out. If they stumble a couple of times down the stretch they'll still get a #1 seed. Even a relative collapse means a #2. I don't like them, but given Duke without Kelly, Michigan's recent setbacks, Kansas's implosion, etc. the Hoosiers are pretty solid favorites to take it all.
Even though Florida got their doors blown off at Arkansas, I still think they're the other top contender. The separation likely lies in the fact that IU will be more battle-tested going through the Big Teen gauntlet, wheras Florida should make a mockery out of a really bad SEC.Agreed. Whatever respect the SEC once had this year has been lost with Mizzou's plight into mediocrity--they are absolutely dreadful on the road.
True, but losing a game in 5 overtimes that you had easily in hand is a bit different that being smoked by double digits.
Where in the hell do you see 4 or 5 wins better than @Pitt and Gtown, @IU and Michigan are givens (even though they were insanely lucky in the Mich game) then maybe @Illinois, which is being very generous. All in all, that is a ridiculous statement.You are going to make me look up something regarding the f'ng badgers?
You are going to make me look up something regarding the f'ng badgers?
@ Indiana - Duh
vs Michigan - Duh
vs Illinois (ranked #12 at the time) - Better
vs Minnesota (ranked #12 at the time) - Better
@ Illinois - Better than @ Pitt. (Pitt without Woodall is not that great of a win)
Our best wins are @ Pitt (unranked) and home against Georgetown (#15 at the time).
It's not even close who has the better wins.
Where a team is ranked at the time means absolutely nothing. Do you think the selection committee is going to give Butler a "top ten win" for when they beat UNC in Maui? It's all about where teams are at the end of the season, barring injuries.
You are going to make me look up something regarding the f'ng badgers?
@ Indiana - Duh
vs Michigan - Duh
vs Illinois (ranked #12 at the time) - Better
vs Minnesota (ranked #12 at the time) - Better
@ Illinois - Better than @ Pitt. (Pitt without Woodall is not that great of a win)
Our best wins are @ Pitt (unranked) and home against Georgetown (#15 at the time).
It's not even close who has the better wins.
I say we are unchanged at 18. What say you?
-1
If you do not live in Milwaukee then a ranking means highlights on ESPN and it's better for recruiting.
So true, but some will never understand! We'll stay at 18.
I could see 17 with Pitt dropping to 18. Everyone else immediately ahead of MU should stay. OK State had a nice overtime win and Georgetown will go up.This makes the most sense to me.
Funny how we are ranked, so is Pitt and we still get axed from sportscenter.
Funny how we are ranked, so is Pitt and we still get axed from sportscenter.
.
So what. It still helps to tell potential recruits our past and present rankings. Shows a sign of good coaching and talent assembled.
got axed from sportscenter because they played on cbs.
They must run a different in the south then whereever you are then.I am in the south and saw it this morning too. Called out as "Big East Showdown" in the scroll on the left.
Ranked 12th in Seth Davis' top 25. He didn't even have MU in his top 25 until last week. It looks like we did some convincing this weekend as he covers the CBS games.
Ranked 16th in Parrish and Goodman's top 25.
17 or higher is looking likely.
You are going to make me look up something regarding the f'ng badgers?
@ Indiana - Duh
vs Michigan - Duh
vs Illinois (ranked #12 at the time) - Better
vs Minnesota (ranked #12 at the time) - Better
@ Illinois - Better than @ Pitt. (Pitt without Woodall is not that great of a win)
Our best wins are @ Pitt (unranked) and home against Georgetown (#15 at the time).
It's not even close who has the better wins.
17th in the AP poll.
A couple of thoughts about above ....
Gonzaga #3, is this their highest ranking ever? #1 this season is not out of the question, especially if MSU beats IU tomorrow and Miami loses at Duke March 2.
Tied for best ever. They hit #3 in 2004. MSU vs. IU is a huge game tomorrow. I think Zags have a great chance for a 1 seed, if not overall #1.
We are the highest 6 loss team.
If Butler's Clark missed his last shot, and Jake Thomas hits his last shot at UWGBand everything else is the sameand if we beat North Carolina and Illinois instead of getting to feast on patsies in the Maui loser's bracket, we are 20-4.
Despite all the hand wringing by some, Marquette is ranked ahead of both Wisconsin and Pitt. (also, Ohio State)
SLU is the last team out of the top 25. No votes for Xavier or Dayton, just 1 for Creighton.
A couple of thoughts about above ....
In fact win the next four (@SH, @'nova, Home 'cuse, home ND), which is not easy and we could still see a top 10 ranking this year.
It would be a travesty if it happened. They are not the #1 team in the country. They have slid up because the function of the polls is so spectacularly stupid. In most cases when you lose, you drop in the polls...they don't care who you play. There are exceptions, as happened two weeks ago, but extremely rare. Meanwhile, if you play in a bad conference and keep on winning you keep eeking up. If Gonzaga is a number 1 seed, especially the overall number 1 seed, please God put Marquette in that bracket.
They are #10 in Sagarin
#11 in RPI
#6 in Ken Pom
Rewarding a team as the #1 overall seed for playing the 75th toughest schedule...that would be something.
Don't understand the hate. Really, a travesty? Quite a bit of hyperbole. They did everything the committee asked. Scheduled an incredibly tough non-con schedule, and are the only team left with 2 losses. If they win out and win the WCC tournament I don't see how you don't give them a well-deserved 1 seed. Have you actually watched this team play? They play like a 1 seed, and frankly, there just aren't elite teams in college basketball this year. The Zags may not be a 1 seed most years, but who deserves it over them this year? Exactly what else could they have done to meet your specifications?
Tied for best ever. They hit #3 in 2004. MSU vs. IU is a huge game tomorrow. I think Zags have a great chance for a 1 seed, if not overall #1.
Oladipo might not play tomorrow for IU...if he doesn't, no chance for IU.
He is playing according to CTC...unless this is gamesmanship which is possible.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigten/2013/02/18/indiana-victor-oladipo/1927827/
This is a team that struggled to beat San Francisco the other day. When they have been tested, they lost to Illinois at home, lost to Butler, got a couple of gifts like beating Washington State by 2 points, San Diego by 2 points, and a Oklahoma State game in which they won by one because the Cowboys missed two free throws with under 10 seconds. It's one of those situations where they have been tested so few times this year vs other programs that they'll back into a #1 because they have so few opportunities to lose.
Seth Davis has MU down to 21.
GTown #7
Cuse #10
Louis #13
Wisc #15
SLU #18
Butler #24
https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/status/305856992742883328
https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/status/305857129057755136
Who give a rats a$$ this week. We gots mo impotant things at hand....
Gotta take care of business. Destroy orange, and beat the shamrocks out of those pretentious, mouth breathing, good for nothing, phony arse, lying, dirty dog, egg sucking, baby hatin' Obama lovin ;D, pinko communist, squinty eyed, smelly, dirt eatin', leach suckin', hairy armpit women lovin', butt kissin', wanna be's, fouled mouthed, rat lovin' Domers.
Take care of bidness, and we are top 15 a week from Monday.
No doubt about it.
#22 in Coaches' Poll.#22 in AP, too.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/ (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/)
ND #21I like this.
MU #22
Two ranked teams go down to the hands of the Warriors--
(21) ND, (20) Butler and (19) Memphis all lost ahead of us. (12) Syracuse might fall beneath us due to the 2 losses this week. If (11) Arizona loses to UCLA tonight, they might fall beneath us (lost to USC earlier this week). Hopefully jump Wisconsin.
Really hoping for around 15-16
I'm saying 15. 2 nationally televised wins will draw some attention.
Who give a rats a$$ this week. We gots mo impotant things at hand....
Gotta take care of business. Destroy orange, and beat the shamrocks out of those pretentious, mouth breathing, good for nothing, phony arse, lying, dirty dog, egg sucking, baby hatin' Obama lovin ;D, pinko communist, squinty eyed, smelly, dirt eatin', leach suckin', hairy armpit women lovin', butt kissin', wanna be's, fouled mouthed, rat lovin' Domers.
Take care of bidness, and we are top 15 a week from Monday.
13 on Goodman / Parrish top 25 and one.
13 on Goodman / Parrish top 25 and one.Wow, a bit generous. I can't imagine the AP or Coach's Poll anything better than about 15.
Seth Davis has us at 17.
I'm saying 15.
7 losses is a lot to over-come. Can't really complain with anyone ahead of us besides the CuseHow many losses did Al's championship team have?
How many losses did Al's championship team have?
How many losses did Al's championship team have?
Keefe
We actually went a pretty good run after losing final three home games. Couple of big road wins prior to Michigan game. We had five home losses that season and bad road loss to Cincy and otherwise played great on the road. Hands down the most losses for NC team up to that point. I think we were getting in without having lead at Michigan, but it definitely helped.
What a difference a few months make. Who would've thought we'd be ranked above Florida at any point this season.Never in a million years.
I thought it was the K-State scrimmage all of those years ago that is keeping us off the 2 line this year.
Who cares what we are ranked. The committee says we are a 3 seed.exactly! only one more poll that matters.
Old BE teams pre-season ranked
# 3 Louisville
# 7 Syracuse
#17 Marquette
# 19 Uconn
#22 Notre Dame
If the old Big East was still together, wouldn't this be a disappointing start? I seem to recall years where the old BE had 10 teams ranked.
Marquette all the way up to #6 in Sports Illustrated's new power rankings.
(with cool GIF included)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130312/college-basketball-power-rankings/index.html?sct=hp_t12_a4&eref=sihp
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.element/img/4.0/global/swapper/201303/130312.06.gif)
AP is same as coache's poll. Still ahead of ND and Becky.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/polls/
Old BE is well rated. New BE very under rated.
It's a preseason poll where 90% of this stuff is garbage. They're voting on name, what they think is coming back, etc. Means nothing. A poll in January is where they should start.
It's a preseason poll where 90% of this stuff is garbage. They're voting on name, what they think is coming back, etc. Means nothing. A poll in January is where they should start.
It's pretty well established that the preseason poll is a better predictor of tournament success than the last poll before the tournament.
17. No movement this week from what I can tell
Next Monday, 11/18, will be real interesting........
By the way, ND sucks. Congrats to Pitt. Revenge for last year's theft by the ABC refs.
Just hijacked my own thread.
I could be wrong but from a cursory glance I don't think any ranked team lost on opening weekend. Everything should stay the same
AP has Marquette at 25. Creighton at 23.
MU drops out of the Coaches Poll. Iowa gets in at 25 with wins over MD Eastern Shore and Abilene Christian.
Iowa might finish 4th in the conference this year. They have some nice, veteran players that were close last year, but will put them in the NCAAs this year if they stay healthy.
A good win Thursday followed by a solid victory over ASU on the road and we start our climb back up.
Michigan State, Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin.
Which two teams is Iowa better than?
Surprised but glad we stayed ranked. Hopefully, we will justify that ranking this week, starting tonight.
I'm only surprised because of the collective uncertainty around the team. Thankfully (or not), the voters rarely drop a team unless they actually lose during a particular week. My guess is that we need to win out this week to stay ranked.
I'm only surprised because of the collective uncertainty around the team. Thankfully (or not), the voters rarely drop a team unless they actually lose during a particular week. My guess is that we need to win out this week to stay ranked.
Not sure it matters now. I think we'll be unranked either way.
Will the BE even have a ranked team?After beating Kansas, I think 6-0 Villanova has a good shot at being ranked. Definitely if they beat Iowa today.
Didn't get a single vote. Nor should we have. Also 108th in RPI ... and though that obviously will improve gradually, this hasn't been the greatest 24 hours in recent MU hoops history.Buzz has re-discovered the "chip." Time to roll.
108 in RPI speaks volumes to our prior overrated status. Hope we do improve.
Buzz has re-discovered the "chip." Time to roll.
Was wondering how the hell someone voted for Xavier in the AP poll. Parrish was on top of it in his Poll Attacks. Good thing he retired when he did, he's gone senile.They were probably voting for Xavier Thames who burned us big time.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24315378/poll-attacks-gary-williams-is-an-ap-voter
Bump. I think we get votes for the first time in god knows how long.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. :)
Hell, Northwestern got 2 votes and their best win is against VT. I think we snag a vote from Matty V.
KenPom had us at #81 before the game. We won't be ranked this month.
All the way up to 64 now.
KenPom had us at #81 before the game. We won't be ranked this month.
I don't think we'll get votes yet. Not after Wisconsin crapped the bed against WIU and UWM. Maybe we will, Wisconsin is still a household name
And WI was a kenpom #39 team, and this was at their place.
Wisconsin is in the 100s in the RPI....much more accurate rankingAnything to downplay a post-Crean win
Just don't flame him if he doesn't do it. He's our bud.
This guy, who I believes has a vote in the AP poll, has Marquette at 25 this week.Regardless of source, so nice to see MU in the top 25.
http://borgesblognhr.blogspot.com/
Regardless of source, so nice to see MU in the top 25.
College and professional athletics, at their essence, are children's games played by young adults for the spectator's entertainment. In the grand scheme of the world, none of us should care about any of the games and none of it is relatively important in the least.
But we do care because we as fans like to see the institutions and teams we root for do well. One of the ways we can gauge how Marquette is doing is by the the two major polls. One of those polls is by the writers who cover the sport as journalists more extensively than any of us could. The other is by the coaches who coach the sport at a higher level than any of us could. So when Marquette, our school and our team, is doing well in the polls, well, it matters to us. And on a small level it is important as it keeps us connected and gives us entertainment.
Also, on a more practical level, if a team is ranked for most of the season, it is a lot more likely that the selection committee will look favorably on them and put them in the tournament. There are not a lot of slots given to unranked teams that do not win their conference's automatic bid.
In addition, ranked teams get vastly more media exposure. This media exposure leads to greater ticket sales and more merchandise sales. It also helps recruit not just athletes, but students who may not otherwise consider Marquette for college.
So it does matter, in a sense. In fact, it matters a lot.
No votes in the Coaches Poll. 1 vote in the AP Poll.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/rankings/ap
Butler #17
Providence #14
Villanova #12
Xavier #10
If we only played all cupcakes to the tune of an 8-0 record, we would be South Carolina at #25 in the coaches poll.
I wonder because if MU goes 11-2non-conf; 9-9conf; 1-1 tourney = 21-12.
Can't go 11-2 in non con. We're 8-2 now with only two left before Big East begins.
Hey! They beat Depaul. Show some respect!True, they beat a Big East team just as we beat SEC and PAC 12 teams.
True, they beat a Big East team just as we beat SEC and PAC 12 teams.
I mean, DePaul is the worst team in the Big East. LSU is a middling SEC team, Wisconsin is a middling Big Ten team, and ASU is at least a middling Pac 12 teamI agree. Our victories are against better opponents. Strained comparison on my part.
Well 1 is better than none! Moving in the right direction!
True, they beat a Big East team just as we beat SEC and PAC 12 teams.
Really meant nothing by that, other than making fun of depaulHa, I know. I was just having a little fun with it.
FWIW, Andy Katz (of all people) has us at 25 in his rankings (not an AP voter): http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/powerrankings/_/show/middleThanks for sharing. I'll take it!
This week's rankings (we lost our single vote):
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings)
How is SMU 18 in the AP poll but unranked (not even getting votes) in the Coaches Poll? That's crazy. Are they exempt from the poll this year or something?
Perhaps since they're banned from the NCAA postseason this year, the coaches don't care to even think about them. I mean, they could be the best team ever, but they're not going to win the national championship!
No votes after wins over Chicago State and PC. Get on the pitchforks.
Big East is otherwise well represented per usual these days.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings)
IMO, a team like Cincinnati's resume doesn't look all that different from Marquette's. A slightly tougher schedule in that they've played 6 quality teams versus Marquette's 5 (4 if you exclude Belmont), but their cupcakes are terrible and their best wins are vs. Nebraska, vs. George Washington and @VCU. That's not better than vs.LSU, vs. ASU and @ UW, IMO. Losses to Butler, Xavier and Iowa State. 7 of their 10 wins are against the dregs of the NCAA. 10-3 record and ranked 22/23.
Patience, Grasshopper. Northwestern is getting votes for Christsakes.
Patience, Grasshopper. Northwestern is getting votes for Christsakes.
Beat Seton Hall and Gtown we should be in the conversation.
True. But with no votes right now even if we win both games I don't see us to being ranked. And then the next week we would have at Providence and St. John's at home. I think we would have to start 4-0 in the BE to be ranked. Just don't see that happening.
Perhaps since they're banned from the NCAA postseason this year, the coaches don't care to even think about them. I mean, they could be the best team ever, but they're not going to win the national championship!
True. But with no votes right now even if we win both games I don't see us to being ranked. And then the next week we would have at Providence and St. John's at home. I think we would have to start 4-0 in the BE to be ranked. Just don't see that happening.
Uh, I think 3-1 would be fine. Losing at providence, especially if we play well, wouldn't be much of a negative. But, a long way to get to 3-1.
Reaaly doubt it. We have not one vote right now. We win both this week and we will get votes but not ranked. Dont know how you move up from there losing then.beating st. John's at home.
Marquette receiving votes in ESPN's Power rankings. Xavier at 5, Butler at 8, Providence at 11, and Nova at 15.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/powerrankings
Andy Katz with the votes, has us at 24.
There's an advanced statistic in baseball called sequencing that adjusts for the randomness in type of hits given up and their impact on a pitchers ERA, FIP, etc. i.e. why penalize a pitcher more for giving up 3 singles then a grand slam in an innning than another pitcher who gives up solo shot then three singles.
Reminds me of the rankings throughout the year especially early on. Oftentimes, it's how streaky you are that determines whether you crack the the Top 25 or not. A team that goes 4-1 over a stretch and wins the first 4, then loses the 5th is much more likely to get in rather than a team that goes, say, 2-1-2 over that same stretch.
RPI guess before the SH & GT games this weekend...if we beat SH we jump 25-30 RPI positions...then beat GT away and jump another 30.
Is it too hopeful to see us at RPI#85 by Monday?
In any case, given the RPI math and our lowly Home schedule, we will climb quickly with every win.
LOL One of my childhood friends who is a huge Vandy fan just posted on Facebook that he thinks Marquette will be a Final Four team.
I am sure at least part of that was to explain the whupping his Commodores just got.
Too early ta get wood 'bout yesterday, hey?
Too early ta get wood 'bout yesterday, hey?
Depends on how long it lasts.4ever would be happy just to get it no matter how long
Too early ta get wood 'bout yesterday, hey?
Way too early to discuss this. Let's wait and see what happens with Michigan, Georgia, the Disgusting Rodent and others before we start looking at rankings.
There's only one that matters. It's at the end of the season and it has no curves in it!!!!!!
I feel we can beat michigan, pitt/smu, georgia and the BADgers that could possibly put us in the top 25 if we dont lose any of the cupcakes
Given that that would put us at undefeated in mid December with wins over 5 major conference teams, including one top 10 team, we very well may be ranked in the top 4 in the country if we do that.
Don't be ridiculous. At best we'd be 9th. ;D
Don't be ridiculous. At best we'd be 9th. ;D
Exactly.
We are not Notre Dame football.
+1, good post.
Being ranked is the most important thing a team can do before the tourney. To say it does not matter means the poster doesn't know what they are talk about.
Consider this
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/01/13/bloomberg_articlesLXR71A0YHQ0X01-LXR9Q.DTL
Stanford University received an estimated 36,744 applications for freshman admission -- a record -- as the school's athletics success drummed up attention. ... Stanford, near Palo Alto, California, admitted 7.1 percent of its applicants for the 2011-2012 academic year. Admissions officials had speculated that the tough competition to win a seat combined with reinstated early acceptance programs at Harvard University and Princeton University might have deterred some students from applying to Stanford, Patterson said today in an interview. "It's a little more than we anticipated," Patterson said. "Stanford did very well in football and Andrew Luck was a leader for the university." Luck, the Stanford Cardinals quarterback and a two-time Heisman Trophy runner-up, is considered a top National Football League prospect.
---
In my book Stanford is the number 1 academic school in the country and being ranked in football mattered A LOT to them. More so then their bowl game (which they lost).
So, again, please stop embarrassing yourself by saying being ranked does not matter.
Exactly.Thank God we aren't ND. ND blows.
We are not Notre Dame football.
Has a Wojo team ever been ranked?
Has a Wojo team ever been ranked?
Received a couple votes at some point last year but if I remember correctly it was only 1 or 2 and it was only 1 week
So is the 7 votes received this week is the highest ever in the Wojo era?I believe so. Banner, please.
I believe so. Banner, please.
(https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/screen-shot-2015-06-11-at-4-08-03-pm.png)
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7230/7204019852_47f2b3d5d8_n.jpg)
I looked for this one and couldn't find it. Easily my favorite banner ever made.Haha, classic.
Fran Fraschilla just said during the Pitt/SMU game that whoever wins this tournament will be ranked next week.
I don't know about that....
So, what will we be ranked, hey?Not top 25
I think we should resurface this on in 2018
Until then,......
We should be #1. In Highlander style, you beat the best you become the best.We have to win these easy games coming up
But in all honesty, I do think we'll jump into the rankings as long as we take care of business against Providence. I think we'll come in at #21.
We have to win these easy games coming up
No team in the top 25 has more than 5 losses. I don't think we make it yet
No easy games in BE this year, I am afraid. Even DePaul is dangerous.
Does any 5-loss team in the country have wins over the No. 1 and 7 team in a 3-day span while also having no "bad" losses?
No team in the top 25 has more than 5 losses. I don't think we make it yetI think we get in with three straight wins including against two top 10 teams. Oddly, I think the win over Nova gives our win over Creighton more consideration.
#1
Because Marquette will always be number one in my heart.
Just want to say Brew, I appreciate your new signature GIF. Not that there was a particular problem with the old one...just that old guy turning and looking at me every time I scrolled down was
Just want to say Brew, I appreciate your new signature GIF. Not that there was a particular problem with the old one...just that old guy turning and looking at me every time I scrolled down was
I think there should be a ban on bumping this thread until after we have played all our games for the week. It seems like every time this thread gets bumped after Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday game, we lose the Saturday/Sunday game.
That is probably a good sign that the team is not good enough to be ranked.
Maybe. But if we are 1 point away from being ranked, that's a lot better than I could have hoped for preseason!
1. Will finish the season undefeated and unscored upon.Sounds too much like the MU football team for my comfort.
Sounds too much like the MU football team for my comfort.And about as likely. Others receiving votes.
Pass me what u guys are smoking. Sports writers that basically know MU was a 13 loss NIT team that lost their top scorer and last time they saw them got their doors blown off by villanova and couldnt stop a wheel chair team is suddenly a preseason receiving votes team??
Those were written prior to Chartouny transferring in. There will be a buzz as the season approaches, particularly if it appears health won't be an issue.
1. Will finish the season undefeated and unscored upon.
Pass me what u guys are smoking. Sports writers that basically know MU was a 13 loss NIT team that lost their top scorer and last time they saw them got their doors blown off by villanova and couldnt stop a wheel chair team is suddenly a preseason receiving votes team??
Oregon was a 13-loss team that lost to Marquette in the NIT, but they will be ranked - and probably quite high - based on their incoming freshman class.Yes but Oregon plays for the "Conference of Champions" and we play for the new decrepit Big East according to major media outlets...E$PN
Not in the new ESPN “too early” top 25 released on the 23rd. While I would love to see MU ranked in top 25 right now, hopefully once they get in, they see in for a long, long time.Eh, Metcalf. Pass.
Eh, Metcalf. Pass.
Not in the new ESPN “too early” top 25 released on the 23rd. While I would love to see MU ranked in top 25 right now, hopefully once they get in, they see in for a long, long time.
That's why I think receiving votes. Some will have us in, more won't.
Andy Katz put us at 27 in his top 36 (post draft withdrawal) ranking. Bucky at 25:
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-06-04/andy-katzs-power-36-look-ahead-2018-19-season-post-nba-draft (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-06-04/andy-katzs-power-36-look-ahead-2018-19-season-post-nba-draft)
I rather not have the ranking bulls eye on our back or the guys thinking they are as good as their rank.
He says two wins away from a birth?
He says two wins away from a birth? Weren't we one win from being third in the Big East?
Anyways if those rankings hold, and we played Tennessee and Kansas. We'd play an absurdly tough non con
Committee thought we were at best 5th team out. Beating DePaul or Georgia wouldn't have been enough. X or Nova would have. 2nd place Pac12 team didn't get a bid
Is that actually released somewhere or are you basing this off NIT seeding? Because my understanding is NIT seeding is not a reflection of the order in which you were out of the field
Is that actually released somewhere or are you basing this off NIT seeding? Because my understanding is NIT seeding is not a reflection of the order in which you were out of the field
The first four out of the NCAA are always the 1 seeds in the NIT. After that I'm not sure (because of the seeding regarding the mid major automatic qualifiers), but that would still put us, at best, 5th team out.
UW at 25 is hysterical.
I agree it's too high but they should be in the tourney next season IMHO
In what sport?
Still belive a win over depaul or prividence would have put ys in the tourney. 10-8 in the BE would have probably been enuff to separate us from thise 4-5-6 teams ahead of us and maybe even some teams in the tourney. Just a little defense from being a solid tourney team. Hopefully the addition of Chartouney ngrowth of the other players tightens up the turnstile defense this year.
Still belive a win over depaul or prividence would have put ys in the tourney. 10-8 in the BE would have probably been enuff to separate us from thise 4-5-6 teams ahead of us and maybe even some teams in the tourney. Just a little defense from being a solid tourney team. Hopefully the addition of Chartouney ngrowth of the other players tightens up the turnstile defense this year.
Still belive a win over depaul or prividence would have put ys in the tourney. 10-8 in the BE would have probably been enuff to separate us from thise 4-5-6 teams ahead of us and maybe even some teams in the tourney.
Read the Katz article, Loyola is not the 12th best team in the nation. I don't even think they are a top 50 team. They will run through the Missouri Valley again because it is a weak conference, so they might end up in the top 25, but I don't see them getting a single digit seed.
Katz is such a B10 homer.He does work on BTN.
He does work on BTN.More to the point is that Katz is a Bucky grad.
The first four out of the NCAA are always the 1 seeds in the NIT. After that I'm not sure (because of the seeding regarding the mid major automatic qualifiers), but that would still put us, at best, 5th team out.The key to all this stuff is that we did not make the dance, and that is on Wojo
I had high expectations for the team last year . I felt we would finish 3rd in the Big East and make it to the second weekend of the tournament. We ended up one win away from 3rd in the Big East and made it to the second weekend equivalent of the wrong tournament. I have similar expectations this year, not finalized yet. That said , my view is that the polls may take some time to catch up with where the team actually is. If we can get out of the blocks strong, we should start being listed in those receiving additional votes and if we can win 10 or more non conference games we will go into conference season ranked. Our relative position of strength in the conference should enable us to propel our ranking higher over the course of the season. My bullishness is a function of the complete roster we have now.
Has everyone seen this one?
http://www.barttorvik.com/trankpre.php
7 Villanova
25 Seton Hall
33 Marquette
35 Providence
44 Xavier
45 Butler
54 Creighton
65 St. John's
68 Georgetown
95 DePaul
------------------
It's going to be difficult for anyone to stay in the Top 25, because just about everyone is the same relative quality. Getting above .500 is going to be quite a task, it looks like everyone will be floating around it.
Why do people want MU to be underrated pre-season and be “under the radar”? If that is the description you want of this team, that means you aren’t all that well regarded?
Do you think UK, Duke, KU or MSU fans hope they come in under the radar? If you are considered Top 10 in the preseason, that means you have a really good team. I want a really good team. I want this team/program to be considered among the best going into the season.
Now that isn’t going to happen this year for whatever reason and maybe I am overvaluing this team, but if we reach the level of success many think we can achieve, a year from now we will more than likely be considered a Top 10 team. That is what I am hoping for.
Why do people want MU to be underrated pre-season and be “under the radar”? If that is the description you want of this team, that means you aren’t all that well regarded?
Do you think UK, Duke, KU or MSU fans hope they come in under the radar? If you are considered Top 10 in the preseason, that means you have a really good team. I want a really good team. I want this team/program to be considered among the best going into the season.
Now that isn’t going to happen this year for whatever reason and maybe I am overvaluing this team, but if we reach the level of success many think we can achieve, a year from now we will more than likely be considered a Top 10 team. That is what I am hoping for.
Why do people want MU to be underrated pre-season and be “under the radar”? If that is the description you want of this team, that means you aren’t all that well regarded?
To be honest, none of this stuff matters when the ball is tipped off. Pre-season predictions are ultimately worthless.
Just don’t see how they have seton hall second
To that end, did anyone see this one?
1. Marquette
2. 350-way tie between all other D1 teams.
Source: warriorchick
Seriously, why do we care what anyone else thinks at this point, especially "experts" whose only credential is that they have an SBNation blog?
Pre-season predictions are ultimately worthless.
Aren't all predictions ultimately worthless?
Bump(https://www.thewholecaboodle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/unlucky-tv-show-GIF-downsized_large.gif)
I know this is out there...but we're just 8 wins away from top-5 by the end of the day, Dec. 1.
I suppose other teams could say this...but its a real possibility for MU.
of course overlooking a real test at Carroll
we were undefeated past Dec 1st in 2011-12 and we still topped out at 7/8 so not necessarily.
If we start 8-0, that includes wins over the current #1 and (likely) #6. I think top-5 would be very plausible.Not to mention knocking off #12 KSU.
Not to mention knocking off #12 KSU.
we were undefeated to Dec 19th in 2011-12 and we still topped out at 10 so not necessarily.
After we beat UW that year, we were ranked #1 on Pomeroy.
When does the Big East Coaches poll come out? and the national coaches poll?This seems to be perplexing Scoopers, me included.
This seems to be perplexing Scoopers, me included.
Prep the pitchforks!
Coaches Poll (MU not ranked):
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/10/25/kansas-jayhawks-no-1-usa-today-preseason-mens-basketball-poll/1751736002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/10/25/kansas-jayhawks-no-1-usa-today-preseason-mens-basketball-poll/1751736002/)
Prep the pitchforks!
Coaches Poll (MU not ranked):
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/10/25/kansas-jayhawks-no-1-usa-today-preseason-mens-basketball-poll/1751736002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/10/25/kansas-jayhawks-no-1-usa-today-preseason-mens-basketball-poll/1751736002/)
Excellent. Other coaches are underestimating us. They are falling right into our trap.
Prep the pitchforks!
Coaches Poll (MU not ranked):
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/10/25/kansas-jayhawks-no-1-usa-today-preseason-mens-basketball-poll/1751736002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/10/25/kansas-jayhawks-no-1-usa-today-preseason-mens-basketball-poll/1751736002/)
Sagarin has us 12
http://sagarin.com/sports/cbsend.htm
Wow, his model does not like Nevada (39).What happened in Vegas did not stay in Vegas for Sagarin.
Sagarin has us 12
http://sagarin.com/sports/cbsend.htm
And yet another source expecting a truly dramatic turnaround for UW, who apparently has a better incoming class than Nebraska, but literally no one else in the B12 (according to 247). I mean, not like they generally play a ton of freshmen anyway but they could have definitely used them this year. I just don't see where the secret sauce is coming from... Is it as simple as "Wisconsin is always good"?
And yet another source expecting a truly dramatic turnaround for UW, who apparently has a better incoming class than Nebraska, but literally no one else in the B12 (according to 247). I mean, not like they generally play a ton of freshmen anyway but they could have definitely used them this year. I just don't see where the secret sauce is coming from... Is it as simple as "Wisconsin is always good"?
They lose nobody and return a starter and top bench player from season long injuries. They were a top 75 team last season per KenPom. Assuming normal progression from their returning players, they should be an NCAA tournament team this season. #30 seems a tad high to me but not unreasonable. They strike me as a top 40 team.
Anytime you use a formula you are bound to get some wonky results. Nevada at 39, Cincy at 11, Auburn at 33, UCF at 17, Mississippi State/Alabama/LSU in the high 40s all seem out of place to me. Also, why do they list Xavier as "Xavier-Ohio"? Is there another D1 Xavier that I am unaware of?
Also my direction on this is "how they get to be mathematically this good" and not just a general discussion on how good they are. I'm not quite seeing what factors are calling for a major improvement.
- Trice and King were injured and unable to play most of the year.I think it is better for MU in the medium and long term if Wisconsin is back to being a tournament level team. Enhances the quality of our schedule and in general having two good teams in the state has positive PR impact. Our game with them is going to be hard fought no matter what, so I would prefer we get the benefit of them being a quality team.
- Davison played hurt all year (got surgery in the offseason). He'll be a sophomore
- Reuvers has considerable upside from where he was last year - look out
- Many others getting a year older. They were ranked #328 in the nation in experience last year. That'll change this year
- Lots of eFG% upside on both sides of the ball
Wouldn't surprise me to see them a very much improved team this year and back in the tourney.
Don't you think returning actual good players, or bench players, is more valuable than just returning "a" player? I mean, they are returning plenty of guys who have played, but that doesn't really say much about whether they are any good. Outside of Happ, they could put Milwaukee (UWM) on the front of their jerseys and nobody would really know the difference.
Hyperbole aside, that's really my point. There are plenty of returning players out there in the college basketball world, but expecting them to dominate at the high major level is something else entirely, isn't it? I understand your point but I still don't see why that logic doesn't apply to at least 100 other teams as well - plenty of teams returning a lot of players.
Also, they were 15-18. A lot of those might have been "good losses" but I still think it's pretty clear that it will take a dramatic improvement to make that a team that flirts throughout the year with being ranked.
Also my direction on this is "how they get to be mathematically this good" and not just a general discussion on how good they are. I'm not quite seeing what factors are calling for a major improvement.
They do return good players, they were just young last season. As Jay Bee points out, they were near the bottom of D1 in experience. A year older and a year healthier will help change a lot of that.I don't think this is a real thing, players either exceed development, or underachieve. How much do you think that extra year will help Charlie Thomas, or Alex Illikainen? I would bet they're still glued to the pine. They likely won't have Aleem Ford when we play them, and I have yet to see anything that would prove that Trice is a high major player (MSU would have been all over him if he was), Anderson got plenty of time to impress coaches in high school when they were there to see Sam and Joey and he had no high major offers. King could be decent, but he should be a big question mark coming off major knee surgery, and their Freshman class aint anything to get excited about. Should they be better than last year? Yes, but until they prove that they are, they shouldn't be a top 40 team. This is why preseason rankings are so difficult and pointless.
As for the math, you'd have to ask Sagarin about the nuts and bolts, or maybe one of the statheads around here could break down his formula, I'm only a dabbler. But there are formulas for projecting how much a player will produce based on past production and what year they are. Assuming normal development from all of Bucky's player's they should be a top 40ish type team. No worries, we should still wipe the floor with them at the Forum
I don't think this is a real thing, players either exceed development, or underachieve. How much do you think that extra year will help Charlie Thomas, or Alex Illikainen? I would bet they're still glued to the pine. They likely won't have Aleem Ford when we play them, and I have yet to see anything that would prove that Trice is a high major player (MSU would have been all over him if he was), Anderson got plenty of time to impress coaches in high school when they were there to see Sam and Joey and he had no high major offers. King could be decent, but he should be a big question mark coming off major knee surgery, and their Freshman class aint anything to get excited about. Should they be better than last year? Yes, but until they prove that they are, they shouldn't be a top 40 team. This is why preseason rankings are so difficult and pointless.
"Normal development" is most certainly a real thing. Freshman to sophomore jumps being the most notable on average (good news for MU as well as uw-madison). I think Reuvers will surprise people either this year or next. Alex Ill is better than he has shown thus far.. if he gets a chance, will he provide it? Dunno, but he's got lots of room to improve.Sophomore Traci? Sophomore Haani? Sophomore Sandy? Player development is real, but there is no barometer for "normal".
I'm not crownin their a$$, but the idea of them being a team that gets into the tourney this year isn't a crazy thought.
And yet another source expecting a truly dramatic turnaround for UW, who apparently has a better incoming class than Nebraska, but literally no one else in the B12 (according to 247). I mean, not like they generally play a ton of freshmen anyway but they could have definitely used them this year. I just don't see where the secret sauce is coming from... Is it as simple as "Wisconsin is always good"?
I don't think this is a real thing, players either exceed development, or underachieve. How much do you think that extra year will help Charlie Thomas, or Alex Illikainen? I would bet they're still glued to the pine. They likely won't have Aleem Ford when we play them, and I have yet to see anything that would prove that Trice is a high major player (MSU would have been all over him if he was), Anderson got plenty of time to impress coaches in high school when they were there to see Sam and Joey and he had no high major offers. King could be decent, but he should be a big question mark coming off major knee surgery, and their Freshman class aint anything to get excited about. Should they be better than last year? Yes, but until they prove that they are, they shouldn't be a top 40 team. This is why preseason rankings are so difficult and pointless.
You don't think what is a real a thing? Player improvement? Most players improve from year to year. Rising sophomores tend to show the most improvement while 5th year seniors tend to show the least (but they still show improvement). In fact, outside of monster freshman classes that the blue bloods get, returning production is a much better indicator of improvement than incoming freshmen. Most freshmen don't bring a ton of value.I don't think there is such a thing as "normal" player development. We see way too many outliers, both overachieving, and underachieving/regressing for there to be a "normal" range. JB mentioned the Freshman to Sophomore gap. Just looking at MU and UW in the recent years you have Sandy, Haani, Traci, Duane to some extent (although the biggest drop-off was in between his Sophomore and Junior year), Illikainen, Charlie Thomas, and Jordan Hill underachieving, and Markus, Sam, and that whole crop of Badgers involved in their FF runs overachieving. The range of successes and failures is far too wide for there to be a "normal" range. Normal implies that there is a predictability to the model, and I don't think anyone could accurately predict the lines that our true Sophomores will put up this year (without a large amount of luck).
I don't think there is such a thing as "normal" player development. We see way too many outliers, both overachieving, and underachieving/regressing for there to be a "normal" range. JB mentioned the Freshman to Sophomore gap. Just looking at MU and UW in the recent years you have Sandy, Haani, Traci, Duane to some extent (although the biggest drop-off was in between his Sophomore and Junior year), Illikainen, Charlie Thomas, and Jordan Hill underachieving, and Markus, Sam, and that whole crop of Badgers involved in their FF runs overachieving. The range of successes and failures is far too wide for there to be a "normal" range. Normal implies that there is a predictability to the model, and I don't think anyone could accurately predict the lines that our true Sophomores will put up this year (without a large amount of luck).
Just look at Jamal. Last year he averaged 4.6 ppg. Just based on our depth, I could see a scenario where that number drops, but, I could also see a scenario where he works himself into an everyday starter, and it jumps to about 12 ppg. Too much unpredictability for "normal".
Well I don't know what to tell you. Smarter people than you or I have done the research and found a normal range. Of course there are outliers, that's why there is the caveat of assuming normal development.
Also, points per game doesn't have anything to do with this conversation. All about efficiency.
High efficiency, low usage, sounds a lot like Matt, and I don't think anyone is expecting him to become an All American.
There's a reason that there are so many different ranking services out there. They are all flawed. As (I believe it was you) pointed out, Sagarin hates Nevada. KenPom always has UW higher than they actually are. BPI loves us. RPI (among its many flaws) always seemed to find a way to make sure Syracuse was the last team in. I'm sure we'll find that NET is flawed as well. I am fully aware that there are a lot of people out there that know a lot more about college basketball and advance stats than I do, but just because these people make a ranking system, doesn't mean that we should all buy into it immediately and unequivocally.
Again, if there are more outliers than "normal", I don't think normal would exist. Just look at the Wojo era of Freshman to Sophomore development (no Henry). I'd argue that the only one that has followed a "normal" progression has been Matt. Traci, Haani, and Sandy all underachieved/regressed. Markus and Sam both overachieved, and I would argue that in Sacar's true Sophomore year, the fact that he felt he hadn't developed enough to get minutes means he underachieved as well. Now from his TRSoph to his RSSoph he overachieved, but that just further's the point that there's no normalcy in player development.
None if those players got worse. Better players came in and took their minutes. Sacar improved but was not redshirtted is freshman year out of necessity, Marquette could afford the rs is sophomore.Haanif's eFG% dropped from his Freshman to Sophomore year despite a usage decrease. It is not "normal" for a player to take a non-medical redshirt if they followed a "normal" improvement curve. Did Sacar get better from his trFs to his trSoph year? Probably, but not to a "normal" degree.
Did we get more votes this week? The Carroll Game should help seeding.
Kaminsky had a higher usage rate as a sophomore than Hauser. Kaminsky's volume of opportunities were low due to only playing 10 mpg.
Did we get more votes this week? The Carroll Game should help seeding.
Remember they only take into account 10 pt margin of victory the other 33 pts no matta, hey, plus at home :P and they would be a 6 quadrant win, actually a bad win ;D
High efficiency, low usage, sounds a lot like Matt, and I don't think anyone is expecting him to become an All American.
There's a reason that there are so many different ranking services out there. They are all flawed. As (I believe it was you) pointed out, Sagarin hates Nevada. KenPom always has UW higher than they actually are. BPI loves us. RPI (among its many flaws) always seemed to find a way to make sure Syracuse was the last team in. I'm sure we'll find that NET is flawed as well. I am fully aware that there are a lot of people out there that know a lot more about college basketball and advance stats than I do, but just because these people make a ranking system, doesn't mean that we should all buy into it immediately and unequivocally.
Again, if there are more outliers than "normal", I don't think normal would exist.
ust look at the Wojo era of Freshman to Sophomore development (no Henry). I'd argue that the only one that has followed a "normal" progression has been Matt. Traci, Haani, and Sandy all underachieved/regressed. Markus and Sam both overachieved, and I would argue that in Sacar's true Sophomore year, the fact that he felt he hadn't developed enough to get minutes means he underachieved as well. Now from his TRSoph to his RSSoph he overachieved, but that just further's the point that there's no normalcy in player development.
So you're operating on the assumption that the "normal" range is extremely wide if Haani, Sam and Markus all fit into that category. I am not.
No one here has even attempted to explain how it works or is calculated, you yourself admit that you don't know. I am just using the same train of thought that people are when judging the NET right now, unless it can be explained with a formula I'm extremely hesitant to base anything off it. Just because the people behind the model know more than me or you does not mean that they're always right, based on the fact that all models weight different aspects differently.
Generally isn't the term normal coined for being within a certain frame of standard deviations away from the mean? So I'd guess calling them normal is saying that they're within those parametersHaani's eFG%, usage and scoring all dropped from freshman to sophomore year. Sam's all went up. Any model that has both of them in the "normal" range in terms of improvement has an extremely wide range.
So you're operating on the assumption that the "normal" range is extremely wide if Haani, Sam and Markus all fit into that category. I am not.
No one here has even attempted to explain how it works or is calculated, you yourself admit that you don't know. I am just using the same train of thought that people are when judging the NET right now, unless it can be explained with a formula I'm extremely hesitant to base anything off it. Just because the people behind the model know more than me or you does not mean that they're always right, based on the fact that all models weight different aspects differently.
Haani's eFG%, usage and scoring all dropped from freshman to sophomore year. Sam's all went up. Any model that has both of them in the "normal" range in terms of improvement has an extremely wide range.
Season's over. We've already got a bad win. Maybe the new metric will be kinder to us for scheduling so poorly.FIRE WOJO!
I understand how it works but couldn't give you the exact formulas different systems use off the top of my head. You are welcome to do the research and find out.
And while it is a range, the difference between Haani and Markus is not as different as you might think. Haani had a terrible freshman year with a statline that was buoyed by playing an atrocious non-conference schedule with subpar teammates. So when he became a sophomore his numbers got worse because he played a tougher schedule and had better teammates around him taking opportunities away from him to bolster his stats. Markus had an elite freshman year with a statline that was limited by a deep team and strong schedule. So when he became a sophomore and had worse talent around him and played an easier schedule his stat line grew. Also keep in mind that we're talking development, meaning what % a player gets better by. Markus improved a lot more than Haanie, but the % he got better between freshman and sophomore year was closer to what Haanie was (but still better IMHO).
As for your previous point of all the different predictive models using different criteria, that doesn't make any of them "wrong." You just have to understand what each model is measuring so you properly understand the results. There are always going to be outliers on both ends but that doesn't mean that most don't fall in the center of the bell curve.
Here's yet another variable that makes this impossible to accurately predict; level of competition. Other than his career high 24 against Jackson State, every time Haani broke the 20 point marker his Freshman year was against high majors. Sophomore year he only broke that barrier twice against low majors, and also combined to score 9 points the last 6 games. Sam never broke the 20 point barrier his Freshman year, although he did have 19 twice. His Sophomore year, he broke it 8 times including a pair of 30 point performances. So when the schedule got tougher for Haani, the level of production dropped off, when it got tougher for Sam, production picked up. I don't care what the efficiency rating are, any metric that sees going from four 20 point performances to 2, as equal to going from 0 to 8, with two 30 point performances, is majorly flawed.
That's the thing though, we know that BPI has us too high because of experience, we know that KenPom will have UW too high because of pace. We don't know how they view missed time for injury, degree of that injury, potential loss of production due to playing through an injury, loss of production due to move up in competition. I'm not going to blindly trust something that doesn't have an explanation. BPI, KenPom have one, "normal" player development does not.
You would still need an absurd amount of off-court data to get anything close to an accurate prediction. Kaminsky's shot total from his entire Sophomore season was less than 100, yet I would bet he took at least 100 shots per day in the off-season before his breakout Junior year. Where were they from, what was his clip, what coach was he working with. 100 shots with Nelson (he's the shooting guy right?) isn't equal to 100 shots with Stan. How many hours of film did he watch? You won't be able to get that data, and without it, any model would be far less accurate, IMO of course.
I'm sure people are smart enough to come up with formulas, but they would not have the data for an accurate model.
I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I just can't say that a year-to-year projection can be accurate when it ignores April through October.
It doesn't. They have gathered data from years and years to show how much a typical player will improve based on a variety of different factors from April to October. That's why predictive models love Wisconsin this season. They don't add much in terms of freshmen/transfers but should add a ton via offseason improvement from all their returning players.
Again, you say it can't be accurate....yet the major ones have been...so are they just getting lucky?
You're looking too macro by saying that UW was good in the past, so they'll be good in the future. Look more micro, they have 3 major players coming off major Injuries and one that is already out indefinitely. Just because Nakovil developed does not guarantee that Reuvers will. Just because Leuer developed does not guarantee that Thomas will. 4 injury question mark's, and 2 scholarship players that were behind the walk ons last year. Not a great start. Could the be top 50? Sure, but they will need players to overachieved their "proven predictive model".
Nakovil, Leuer, etc have nothing to do with this conversation. No one is saying because these players developed these players will. The formulas are based on data from every team across multiple seasons. Not one team. Wisconsin doesn't get a bonus compared to other teams when it comes to player development. How Wisconsin has done in seasons prior to 17-18 is irrelevant to this discussion.
You make some pretty out there assumptions saying that they will need players to overachieve in order to make top 50. If every one of their players develop at a normal pace, they will be a top 50 team easily. Without breaking a sweat. Now, that doesn't mean all of their players will. Some will exceed, some will fall short. They could be a weird team where everyone exceeds or everyone falls short and they would become an outlier. The most sound assumption is that as a team they will develop at a normal pace.
You use words like guarantee a lot. If you are looking for a guarantee, you are not going to find it anywhere. These are just projections. They are not going to be guarantee level accurate. The goal is results on a bell curve. Most results right in the middle, with some outliers on both ends.
Maybe Wisconsin ends up being one of those outliers this season. Maybe even for the reasons you list. Certainly possible. I doubt the injury to Aleem Ford is included in most models given that we don't know the severity yet. But those listing them as a top 50 team having statistically sound evidence to back up their projection. There is no Wisconsin bias. This isn't "the Badgers are usually good so I'm ranking them higher". It's simply the fact that they were a top 75ish team last season that returns everyone, gets 2 key players back from injury, and will go from being one of the least experienced teams in Division 1 to a team in the middle of the pack for experience. Projecting a 25 point jump in the rankings is completely reasonable for a team with that profile, especially when you consider that virtually every team in front of them lost a lot more production than they did.
Man we're just going in circle, because I'm about to say that this isn't a real thing. You'll say that there are formulas. I won't think the formulas will have enough data. You'll say that they were right in the past, so they'll be right in the future. I'll counter with the "accuracy" of those correct predictions isn't all that accurate. Then you'll justify a player regressing in usage, eFG%, and scoring, by saying that our schedule got tougher. The only thing I'll say about UW is that IMO they have a lot of question marks, and if a majority of those question marks don't turn out positive, this season could have similarities to last.
Here's yet another variable that makes this impossible to accurately predict; level of competition. Other than his career high 24 against Jackson State, every time Haani broke the 20 point marker his Freshman year was against high majors. So when the schedule got tougher for Haani, the level of production dropped off, when it got tougher for Sam, production picked up. I don't care what the efficiency rating are, any metric that sees going from four 20 point performances to 2, as equal to going from 0 to 8, with two 30 point performances, is majorly flawed.
No. Your metrics are ridiculous. Do we need to get you on a 72 hour hold?
Haani as a frosh against KenPom Tier A&B: 86.5 ORtg, 9.9% DR%
Haanif as a soph against KenPom Tier A&B: 93.0 ORtg, 14.0% DR%
I thought eFG% ruled all???
It does when it comes to a team winning and losing basketball games. u no undastand
#FTsNoMatta
I prefer players that help us win basketball games. Players with higher eFG% do that better than those with lower eFG%.
False!
So then eFG% mo matta??? You're contradicting yourself here bud.
Not at all. You're not understanding the difference between individual stats and team stats.
So if a stat helps your argument it matta, but if it doesn't help your argument it no matta. Man this internet thing is easy man.
Loyola Chicago lost to Furman, and #25 Washington is down 28 in the 2nd to Aubrun at the moment. Both were ahead of Marquette in the preseason AP poll.
Wait a second ...
The great Loyola of Chicago ... the kingslayers? ... Sister What's Her Name's school? ... the school that is now such a basketball powerhouse that we want them in the Big East? ... they lost to Furman?
Impossible!
And yes, given the way voters vote, there is a chance we could move into the rankings.
Of course, nothing happens in a vacuum. Maybe some other unranked teams had more impressive wins than UMBC and Bethune Cookman.
Buffalo beat West Virginia in OT.
I must say this result pleased me a great deal indeed!
I'll believe the Loyola program is worth a damn when they can be good 4 out of 5 years or 6 out of 8 years.
Loyola Chicago lost to Furman, and #25 Washington is down 28 in the 2nd to Aubrun at the moment. Both were ahead of Marquette in the preseason AP poll.
I understand the Loyola love, I really do. Everybody loves an underdog.
But they have had one excellent season and one OK season in the last 3 decades, but people were making them out to be the next Gonzaga or Wichita State. The head coach that people have been drooling over was 89-105 in 6 seasons before last year.
I'll believe the Loyola program is worth a damn when they can be good 4 out of 5 years or 6 out of 8 years.
Nobody is making them out to be the next Gonzaga or Wichita State. I really don't get the hatred for LUC on this board. Let their fans enjoy their one good season. They've put up with a ton of losing.
Nobody is making them out to be the next Gonzaga or Wichita State. I really don't get the hatred for LUC on this board. Let their fans enjoy their one good season. They've put up with a ton of losing.
We could crack the top-25. I could see us 24/25, if not we'll still be just outside.
I have zero hate for Loyola, and I also enjoyed their run last year.
I just don't get those who think they've proven anything, nor do I get seemingly intelligent folks suggesting Loyola has accomplished enough to warrant being mentioned as a possible Big East team.
I understand the Loyola love, I really do. Everybody loves an underdog.
But they have had one excellent season and one OK season in the last 3 decades, but people were making them out to be the next Gonzaga or Wichita State. The head coach that people have been drooling over was 89-105 in 6 seasons before last year.
I'll believe the Loyola program is worth a damn when they can be good 4 out of 5 years or 6 out of 8 years.
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/11/12/power-rankings-top-25-duke-kansas-kentucky-gonzaga-unc
MUBB 25
Saw two voters released their votes and had us at 20 and 21.
My MBA is from Loyola and everyone was asking me last year why I wasn't showing "love" to "my" School.
I told them I wished the Ramblers well but "I AM A WARRIOR!" I aint no damn Rambler and as far as I am concerned, the season ended when the NCAA, in their infinite mindlessness, elected not to invite my Warriors to the NCAA tournament. "How's the Cardinals doing, anyway?"
Seems like the world has returned to normal. We have a good team and to the rest of the world, a Rambler is an antique care last made in the 1960s.
Saw two voters released their votes and had us at 20 and 21.I'm hoping for a totally irrational 5-spot jump. Not that far-fetched in these polls...
BOOM!!
#24
Whoot!!!!!Oh hell yeah.
First time since December 1, 2013 when a loss to San Diego State in the Wooden Legacy tournament knocked us out.
First time since December 1, 2013 when a loss to San Diego State in the Wooden Legacy tournament knocked us out.
Nearly five years. Too long.
When was the last time the men and women were both ranked? Has it ever happened?
With apologies to MU82...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0CLVkXrFf522IKoU/source.gif)
First time since December 1, 2013 when a loss to San Diego State in the Wooden Legacy tournament knocked us out.
Nearly five years. Too long.
When was the last time the men and women were both ranked? Has it ever happened?
No apologies necessary.
In that case:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oD3YJVnCAtIY050ha/giphy.gif)
(https://i.gifer.com/origin/bf/bf494acd0f6be060eefb02606ed2dc4b_w200.webp)
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-16-2015/HnXy2p.gif)
(https://i.gifer.com/origin/ff/ff66d35375b69d5cc33937d0898125b8_w200.webp)
First time since December 1, 2013 when a loss to San Diego State in the Wooden Legacy tournament knocked us out.
Man had no idea it was that long. Figured we slipped in at some point two years ago. Rankings don't mean squat in mid-November and I don't consider this the sign that We're Officially Back (that'll be making the Sweet Sixteen this year). But. It's nice to be relevant.
1807 days...is exactly 1807 days too long...this had BETTER be the last time this program is unranked for a VERY VERY VERY long time.
Chill amigo, even if we take care of IU and Pres then we follow that up with a week against a top 5 team which we'd then have to take down another top 5 team. Maybe wait till the Big East season.
Yeah but beat IU and we ain’t getting knocked out of the top 25 for losing to Kansas.
Maybe if we also lost to UL.
I disagree. It depends more what the teams sandwiched around us do. If numbers 25-28 pick up wins and 23 and above continue to then I think we'd fall out.This. I'd also add that it really doesn't matter this early. If we beat I4 and go 1-1 in Brooklyn, whether or not we're ranked has nothing to do with the fact that (assuming no cupcake slip-up) November would have gone as well as possible.
I disagree. It depends more what the teams sandwiched around us do. If numbers 25-28 pick up wins and 23 and above continue to then I think we'd fall out.
There’s no way a Kansas loss would bump us.
That week is holiday tourney week. Everyone is playing real competition...so yeah, some will win. But others will lose to teams much worse.
Of course we have to beat IU first. But I’m willing to bet if we beat IU we stay in the polls til loss #2 at the soonest.
Not a perfect comparison but in 2013-14 we were 17 and 1-0 then went 1-1 with the loss being to no 10 Ohio st. We dropped 25. Again not a perfect comp but I stand by my stance. Probably find out soon though.
Not a perfect comparison but in 2013-14 we were 17 and 1-0 then went 1-1 with the loss being to no 10 Ohio st. We dropped 25. Again not a perfect comp but I stand by my stance. Probably find out soon though.
We were actually 2-0. We beat Southern and Grambling, the latter of which is when "Magic Dawson" emerged.
Biggest game of the season is Wednesday.
this had BETTER be the last time this program is unranked for a VERY VERY VERY long time.
Or else what?Fire Wojo
Respect the process. A loss to Kansas won't mean a thing if we also lose to Indiana. Biggest game of the season is Wednesday.
This already?At least 'the next game is always the most important game of the season' can be reasonably argued as accurate. The "MU BETTER do _______ or else" is completely illogical.
What's the deal with the USA Today poll? Did they just, um, decide not to do it this week?
Not a perfect comparison but in 2013-14 we were 17 and 1-0 then went 1-1 with the loss being to no 10 Ohio st. We dropped 25. Again not a perfect comp but I stand by my stance. Probably find out soon though.
THAT game? I remember that awful day. >:(
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/46861819/whats-the-deal.jpg)Yep, I hear it now.
TAMU
As I have stated to you many times, I respect your excitement over the program and knowledge you bring to the site. This is one post that I think you are better than. I want a program that has a "what are going to be ranked" thread. Furthermore, I want it to be a debate that includes high ranking in the polls.
Like it or not, there remains a great deal of work ahead for this program. From my perspective, the talent level just is not there, especially at the guard position. As I stated in another post, I think there are a lot of nice complimentary players that would be well on a very good team. If Wojo can coach, he can make something out of this group. If not, there will be more disappointing moments this season.
Guys, we are going to get smoked on Wednesday. Don't even bother getting yourself excited about a W.
I am going to watch and root like hell for a W, and obviously hope it happens. But we're talking 10% or less chance. This team has not looked good at all and we're playing likely the best all around team in the country. Its not going to go well.
Guys, we are going to get smoked on Wednesday. Don't even bother getting yourself excited about a W.
I am going to watch and root like hell for a W, and obviously hope it happens. But we're talking 10% or less chance. This team has not looked good at all and we're playing likely the best all around team in the country. Its not going to go well.
Herman and others,
Is MU ranked again this season?
It was written...
“With numerous challenging games (more than half of MU’s regular season games will be against teams in or receiving votes in the preseason AP top 25), we see the season playing out in one of two ways.
The Warriors could pick up a few losses to very good teams early on, delaying their recognition by the masses and having some fans expressing needless concern. In this scenario, we still believe by the end of the regular season MU will be set for a strong postseason run and will be seen as a dangerous and “underrated” team heading into the tournament.”
Herman and others,
Is MU ranked again this season?
Guys, we are going to get smoked on Wednesday. Don't even bother getting yourself excited about a W.
I am sure the University of Maryland Baltimore County faithful (all six of them) said exactly the same thing last March. I believe they were up against the Number 1 overall seed in the NCAA tournament.
I'm sure many of the faithful of Loyola University of Chicago also said exactly the same thing. They were up against the field in the NCAA. Had they not won the Missouri Valley Conference tournament, Sister Jean would have been a woman who wasn't known much past Sheridan on the south, Broadway on the west, the city limits on the north and Lake Michigan on the east. We all know how that turned out.
I'm sure many of the faithful said the same thing a couple of years back when the Villanova Wildcats confidently rode into Wisconsin's largest city thinking they had a pesky but eminently beatable basketball foe that requirement vanquishment. Nobody on this board has any doubt about how THAT one turned out.
Finally, there was the little Jesuit school that barely made the NCAA tournament years ago. The school had lost several of its end-of-the-season games and, up to that time, had one of the worst records ever for an at-large bid into the NCAA It happened only because the school was leading Michigan at halftime (a game it would go on to lose) and its colorful head coach was retiring. NO ONE and I mean NO One on that Sunday afternoon would have dreamed that just a few weeks later, that school would be national champions.
Loose
I would say, I doubt that we will be ranked again this season. If NC schedule turns out poorly, it would need a nice winning streak to right the ship.
Yes.
Jan 14th.
B1G looking strong. 6 teams in the top 25 and Indiana, Maryland, and Nebraska are the top 3 vote getters in "Others receiving votes."
Best wins for the others receiving votes...
I4 - vs. Marquette (0-1 against others teams not in the KenPom bottom 300)
Maryland - vs. Hofstra (no good wins)
Nebraska - vs. Seton Hall (no other good wins)
#ItsNotReal
Sure it's based on perception at this point. Personally, I was expecting a lot of Big 10 teams in the 20-40 range. I think that's how it will play out in the end.
Guys, we are going to get smoked on Wednesday. Don't even bother getting yourself excited about a W.
I am going to watch and root like hell for a W, and obviously hope it happens. But we're talking 10% or less chance. This team has not looked good at all and we're playing likely the best all around team in the country. Its not going to go well.
Are you rooting from the 508?
J5 said he's not coming. Gave some other excuse, but it's probably because he heard you may be there.
Are you almost definitely coming? I'm debating what to do on Weds (MG or stay DT after work). I may leave the office around 1pm and get looooose before the game, then walk over to 508.. but not 100% sure yet. I'm not expecting a big turnout, but who knows.
MU received 8 and 7 points respectively in this weeks AP and Coaches poll. So a few voters gave MU the benefit of the doubt on the road loss in a tough venue.FWIW, only one AP voter (Theo Lawson) ranked MU and he did so at 19. That is how we have 7 votes
I am hoping that the NY area MU fan base shows up at Barclay , could give the team a boost this week.
J5 said he's not coming. Gave some other excuse, but it's probably because he heard you may be there.
Are you almost definitely coming? I'm debating what to do on Weds (MG or stay DT after work). I may leave the office around 1pm and get looooose before the game, then walk over to 508.. but not 100% sure yet. I'm not expecting a big turnout, but who knows.
Mainly just worried I'll have to protect my fiance from Jay Bee's advances while the poor girl just tries to watch the game!
No longer receiving votes after an L to Kansas and a clutch W over Louisville - yet UW moves up after a loss to UVA (and win over Oklahoma and not-so-good Stanford team). Nothing to see here...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings)
MU doesn't deserve to be ranked or receiving votes at this juncture, and pretty sure we were only receiving votes last week because one dude must've missed the Indiana game and left MU at 19.I like that dude.
Also receiving votes.
A decent few ranked teams have lost this week. I could see us sneaking in.
I think we'll be receiving votes. Here are teams ahead of us that lost:Beat Wisconsin on Saturday and we have a real chance to go undefeated in non-con from there on out.
9) Michigan State (Lost @ Louisville)
11) North Carolina (Lost @ #7 Michigan)
12) Kansas State (Lost @ Marquette)
13) Virginia Tech (Lost @ Penn State)
14) Iowa (Lost to #22 Wisconsin)
16) Ohio State (Lost to Syracuse)
17) Texas (Lost to Radford)
18) Oregon (Lost to Texas Southern & @ Houston)
19) Purdue (Lost @ #15 FSU & @ #7 Michigan)
24) Maryland (Lost to #4 Virginia)
ARV) Clemson (Lost to Nebraska)
ARV) Creighton (Lost to #1 Gonzaga)
ARV) Indiana (Lost @ #3 Duke)
If I were to guess, Texas, Oregon, Purdue, and Maryland is the most that will fall out, with Texas and Oregon seemingly locks. The next four up in votes received that didn't lose are Arizona State, Furman, LSU, and UCLA. I think Arizona State and LSU seem pretty solid to get in. If it isn't one of those other two, Syracuse and Nebraska both had solid road wins that could allow them to leapfrog some teams, and if any other Big East team does get in I think it would be unbeaten St. John's.
We'll pick up some votes, but it will take at least another week, maybe even two or three, to get back in.
Also three spots out of the rankings. Close in position but not in actual votes received. Still more votes than anticipated for meYep, more votes than I thought we'd get. Also now confident that 2-0 this week will get us in, wasn't so sure before today with the activity around us.
We have the opportunity to beat two 12's in a row. And maybe even 3 if Buffalo makes the jump after the rodents fall! We might have a new lucky number...Matt Heldt is fixen it up with the #12
First of all, Furman being in is a complete and utter joke. Yes, they beat Villanova, but that alone shouldn't put them in. They needed overtime to beat sub-200 Gardner-Webb at home. They needed double-overtime to beat sub-300 Western Carolina at home this past Saturday. If results matter, then their most recent result should matter. Being the equal of a sub-300 team for 45+ minutes does not warrant being in the top-25. Voters just saw they didn't lose and moved them up their ballots.
Second, Michigan doesn't have a single #1 vote. That means 64 AP voters are doing it wrong. Few teams have better wins than Michigan's wins over North Carolina, Villanova, and Purdue. No team has wins of that caliber by 17+ points in each game. No one else has been closer than 17 points either. Michigan is decimating everyone they play. There is no logical rationale for putting Gonzaga, who has 2 single-digit wins including a bad Illinois team, Duke, who has a loss and 1 single-digit win, Kansas, who needed overtime twice and has 4 single-digit wins, or Virginia, who has 3 single-digit wins, ahead of Michigan. Even the pace of play argument doesn't hold up because while Virginia plays slow, Michigan is 327th in the country in pace, so they are destroying teams while playing at a Virginia-like pace.
Third, where did LSU go? They had 41 votes last week and were 5 out of being ranked. Since they, they beat Grambling at home by 21. Not anything special, but they seemingly lost all their votes. They are not ranked and not listed on NCAA.com as having any votes.
Finally, we're where I expected us to be, though we have a pretty good case to be in right now. Our two best wins are better than almost anyone who's ranked 13th or worse. Villanova & Arizona State have comparable wins, but the wins over Louisville and K-State are better than what Texas Tech, UNC, Virginia Tech, K-State, Buffalo, Iowa, Ohio State, Mississippi State, Maryland, Nebraska, or Furman have on their resumes. We do have two losses, but our losses are better than the two losses UNC & Villanova have, and Virginia Tech, K-State, and Mississippi State all have losses that are worse than our worst loss.
It'll all sort itself out. If we win two this week, we will be ranked by this time next week.
First of all, Furman being in is a complete and utter joke. Yes, they beat Villanova, but that alone shouldn't put them in. They needed overtime to beat sub-200 Gardner-Webb at home. They needed double-overtime to beat sub-300 Western Carolina at home this past Saturday. If results matter, then their most recent result should matter. Being the equal of a sub-300 team for 45+ minutes does not warrant being in the top-25. Voters just saw they didn't lose and moved them up their ballots.
Second, Michigan doesn't have a single #1 vote. That means 64 AP voters are doing it wrong. Few teams have better wins than Michigan's wins over North Carolina, Villanova, and Purdue. No team has wins of that caliber by 17+ points in each game. No one else has been closer than 17 points either. Michigan is decimating everyone they play. There is no logical rationale for putting Gonzaga, who has 2 single-digit wins including a bad Illinois team, Duke, who has a loss and 1 single-digit win, Kansas, who needed overtime twice and has 4 single-digit wins, or Virginia, who has 3 single-digit wins, ahead of Michigan. Even the pace of play argument doesn't hold up because while Virginia plays slow, Michigan is 327th in the country in pace, so they are destroying teams while playing at a Virginia-like pace.
Third, where did LSU go? They had 41 votes last week and were 5 out of being ranked. Since they, they beat Grambling at home by 21. Not anything special, but they seemingly lost all their votes. They are not ranked and not listed on NCAA.com as having any votes.
Finally, we're where I expected us to be, though we have a pretty good case to be in right now. Our two best wins are better than almost anyone who's ranked 13th or worse. Villanova & Arizona State have comparable wins, but the wins over Louisville and K-State are better than what Texas Tech, UNC, Virginia Tech, K-State, Buffalo, Iowa, Ohio State, Mississippi State, Maryland, Nebraska, or Furman have on their resumes. We do have two losses, but our losses are better than the two losses UNC & Villanova have, and Virginia Tech, K-State, and Mississippi State all have losses that are worse than our worst loss.
It'll all sort itself out. If we win two this week, we will be ranked by this time next week.
You're putting way more thought into this than the voters. A quick scan of results, tweak last week's ballot, submit. That's the process.
Don't put too much stock in the value of the poll.
You are putting far too much stock into margin of victory. Those 3 wins for Michigan are nice no doubt. But those 3 teams are also very overrated. They aren’t close to a Duke or even a Wisconsin at this point.
?? Strange comment. Michigan is clearly better than UW right now and would be a 1 seed if the season ended today
It is fantastic we are going to get credit for playing the Badgers as a top 12 team. Even better when we beat them.
There is no way in hell the Badgers are a top 15 team in the country.
Kenpom has them at #10.
But yeah, I agree.
Kenpom has them at #10.
But yeah, I agree.
Yes. Michigan is better than UW. But UNC, Purdue, and Nova are not. At least not right now. Those are the best wins of teams like Gonzaga and UVA, who started higher in the polls than Michigan did and has at least 1 win that is better than Michigan’s best, by a pretty decent margin.
I’d put Kansas, UVA, and Gonzaga over Michigan for sure and would have Duke and Nevada right on par with them.
He's admitted his system is inaccurate with WI
How do you mean?
How do you mean?
He's admitted his system is inaccurate with WI
Right now, as far as body of work, Michigan is the best team in the country. It's not close.
UNC, Purdue, and Nova combined are better wins than Wisconsin, Dayton, and Maryland. Especially when Michigan dominated all three and Virginia struggled to put their opponents away while playing at a similar pace (so the idea of margin being irrelevant because of UVa's pace would be a false one).
And UNC, Purdue, and Nova are also better than Duke, Creighton, and Arizona, especially when two of those three were again by narrow margins.
Right now, as far as body of work, Michigan is the best team in the country. It's not close.
UNC, Purdue, and Nova combined are better wins than Wisconsin, Dayton, and Maryland. Especially when Michigan dominated all three and Virginia struggled to put their opponents away while playing at a similar pace (so the idea of margin being irrelevant because of UVa's pace would be a false one).
And UNC, Purdue, and Nova are also better than Duke, Creighton, and Arizona, especially when two of those three were again by narrow margins.
Right now, as far as body of work, Michigan is the best team in the country. It's not close.
BTW, Gonzaga beat Creighton by 11 and Arizona by 17. Not exactly close margins.
And they beat a bad Illinois team by 6. Gonzaga is good, but they have not been as impressive as Michigan so far. It's just a hard sell when the Zags' most decisive significant win (Arizona) is an equal margin to Michigan's least impressive win over UNC.
And they beat a bad Illinois team by 6. Gonzaga is good, but they have not been as impressive as Michigan so far. It's just a hard sell when the Zags' most decisive significant win (Arizona) is an equal margin to Michigan's least impressive win over UNC.
Zags win against Duke is probably the best win in college basketball so far. So by your logic are you saying that the fact that Michigan beat Purdue by 19 and UNC by 17 that you're convinced they would beat both Duke and Gonzaga? Wins > Winning margin at the end of the day IMO.
Duke looks really overwhelming, but I'm not convinced they are as good as people think. I do think Michigan would beat them. Duke blasted a Kentucky team that frankly hasn't looked that impressive since then against a litany of cupcakes. They slipped by a good but probably not great Auburn team and their wins over San Diego State and Indiana don't impress me as much as any of Michigan's big wins. Zion is a freak of nature and they have great talent, but I'm just not convinced they are a great team, and I'm not sure they will be until they figure out that Tre Jones is by far their most important player.
As far as Gonzaga, again it's simply how impressive they've looked. The Duke win is great and all, but they needed to rally after being down big in the second half against Arizona, struggled to beat Illinois, and had to rally late to come from behind at Creighton. I have no doubt they are good, but they have been far from dominant.
Michigan has been dominant every time out. They trailed once in a second half. They haven't trailed after the under-16 timeout in any game and Pomeroy hasn't had them at less than 85% to win any game after the under-16. They didn't need to rally late, they didn't need to hold off any comeback attempts like Gonzaga and Duke have. And they absolutely suffocate you. They build a massive lead every time out, then bleed the clock on both ends of the floor.
Anything can happen in a one-off, but I think in a seven-game series Michigan would beat Duke or Gonzaga. They are better coached, more disciplined, and far better on defense. They're the best team I've seen this year.
Duke, Michigan are both in my 1-seeds and as we have seen, both are great. Wouldn't that be a great final?!
other 1's are Gonzaga and a team to be named later...maybe Virginia. Zags have a nicer road to navigate. But a think a cut below Duke and Michigan.
Kansas is good but not impressive...I see them getting knocked down to a 2 or even 3.
Duke, Gonzaga, Michigan, Kansas, and Nevada look like the clear top 5 this year. Tennessee not far behind, but I don't think the Vols have upside of the others.
Duke, Gonzaga, Michigan, Kansas, and Nevada look like the clear top 5 this year. Tennessee not far behind, but I don't think the Vols have upside of the others.
And they beat a bad Illinois team by 6. Gonzaga is good, but they have not been as impressive as Michigan so far. It's just a hard sell when the Zags' most decisive significant win (Arizona) is an equal margin to Michigan's least impressive win over UNC.
Again, you're focusing way too much on margin of victory. UNC, Purdue, and Iowa all lose to Duke by about 25 at this point in the season. Gonzaga beat them by 2 on a neutral while controlling all but about a 4 minute spurt that got Duke in striking distance, and all without their 2nd best player.
This is pure speculation. I'm talking about facts. On the court, on the resume, Michigan has been the unquestionably better team. And margin of victory is one of the best predictors of team quality and future results.
https://kenpom.com/blog/evidence-that-scoring-margin-matters/
Unquestionably? Lol. It simply isn’t. They haven’t beat anyone close to a Duke or a Tennessee. Not even close. They beat a team that lost by 30 to Michigan State (who lost to the team we should’ve beat comfortably, I guess), a team that lost at home to Furman and dang near lost to 0-8 LaSalle, and a team that has one good win.
Isn't the general rule that the transitive property doesn't work in basketball?
Plus, Michigan beat UNC, who lost to Texas, who lost at home to Radford.
It is, but apparently this is the hill wades is willing to die on. And if we're going by the "X beat Y beat Z" arguments then we're so far down the rabbit hole we aren't paying attention to actual results.
The body of work and resume favors Michigan, especially when you consider the way in which they created that body of work. They didn't just win games, they curbstomped everyone they played.
It is, but apparently this is the hill wades is willing to die on. And if we're going by the "X beat Y beat Z" arguments then we're so far down the rabbit hole we aren't paying attention to actual results.
The body of work and resume favors Michigan, especially when you consider the way in which they created that body of work. They didn't just win games, they curbstomped everyone they played.
You try to downplay a win against Duke/how good Duke is but then talk up a blowout over Purdue...someone everyone is blowing out. It's laughable.
At this point Duke neutral/Zona neutral/Creighton away is a better 3 collection of wins than Nova away/Purdue home/Unc home.
Michigan won their games by more pts.
But the zags wins right now have more weight
Debatable, and I would say it isn't. Most any metric would disagree with that take as well. The NET gives Michigan 3 top-35 wins. kenpom.com gives Michigan 3 top-18 wins. Sagarin has them with 3 top-23 wins. The only metric in which Michigan's third best win is better than Gonzaga's second best win is Sagarin (Arizona 22, Villanova 23).
And again, I would point to the fashion of the wins. Michigan has destroyed everyone they've played. No one else has come close to doing that except Nevada, but their best win (@USC by 12) pales in comparison to Michigan's three best by a mile.
The only defensible position is not dropping teams because they didn't lose. That's the entire argument.
Debatable, and I would say it isn't. Most any metric would disagree with that take as well. The NET gives Michigan 3 top-35 wins. kenpom.com gives Michigan 3 top-18 wins. Sagarin has them with 3 top-23 wins. The only metric in which Michigan's third best win is better than Gonzaga's second best win is Sagarin (Arizona 22, Villanova 23).
And again, I would point to the fashion of the wins. Michigan has destroyed everyone they've played. No one else has come close to doing that except Nevada, but their best win (@USC by 12) pales in comparison to Michigan's three best by a mile.
The only defensible position is not dropping teams because they didn't lose. That's the entire argument.
Michigan barely beats a mediocre Northwestern team. So that means they suck now right? ;D
So Marquette drops 6 spots in kenpom tonight after the win against UTEP?
So Marquette drops 6 spots in kenpom tonight after the win against UTEP?
Marquette 36 in NET, Wisconsin 6, Buffalo 12....
I'm concerned with the number in the win column not the number next to the team name.
I'm concerned with the number in the win column not the number next to the team name.Thanks, John Wooden. Lol come on, we are the fans - we have nothing to do with the outcome, but it's fun to speculate how high we could climb! Especially after the Wojo rankings drought of 2013-2018.
MU will be ranked wherever they deserve to be.I get what you are saying but that is simply not true...Are you telling me that Furman deserves to be ranked?
I hate when we post in this thread before a game.
It doesn't go well when we post in it after a game either ;D :-[
Thanks, John Wooden. Lol come on, we are the fans - we have nothing to do with the outcome, but it's fun to speculate how high we could climb! Especially after the Wojo rankings drought of 2013-2018.
Wow, so Wojo was mind gaming Buzz back in 2013? He's worse than I thought!
I hate when we post in this thread before a game.
I don’t know what teams towards the bottom of the top 25 did but I’ll say 22.
I don't see voters punishing Arizona State or or Iowa for their losses too much.
Thanks, John Wooden. Lol come on, we are the fans - we have nothing to do with the outcome, but it's fun to speculate how high we could climb! Especially after the Wojo rankings drought of 2013-2018.. What do you mean? We need to be focused on the next opponent no matter what. Or the team will overlook them.
Iowa was destroyed though.
Iowa was destroyed though.
How are we still behind Louisville in these Net rankings - my word
I just took a quick look at their schedule. My only thought is that they really pounded some of their cupcakes (40-50 points) and their losses have been pretty close other than Tennessee by 11. The beatdown we suffered vs Indiana really must have held a lot of weight as well.
According to NET rankings the beatdown was a 10 point loss, just like their cupcake wins were 10 point wins..
According to NET rankings the beatdown was a 10 point loss, just like their cupcake wins were 10 point wins..
As long as buffalo reached no12 by the time they come to town I don't care what we are ranked
I dont know if we will get in for sure. I think we should get in and deserve to be ranked, but purdue will get in and I dont know about anyone else. I think if we do, we will be 23-25
tenn. beat gonzaga on their floor!!
Louisville also has a road win and we don't yet.Quadrant system being used for team sheets again. Based on NET rankings this year.
Iirc the NET is still using the road/neutral/home values for wins from the RPI as part of the formula.....road wins are valuable but obviously without knowing the formula it's hard to know how much that is depressing our ranking right now.
3 ballots I have see so far:
David Borges:14
Seth Davis: 19
Jon Rothstein: 25
Steele has us at 20.
Outside of twitter, anywhere that aggregates these?
So we beat the #12 team two weeks in a row, and have losses to soon to be ranked Indiana, and #1 Kansas... yet we aren't ranked?
You guys are nuts. I'll take us at 20 at minimum.
3 ballots I have see so far:
David Borges:14
Seth Davis: 19
Jon Rothstein: 25
Eff Jon "It's all fun and games until someone loses a buy game" Rothstein.
3 ballots I have see so far:
David Borges:14
Seth Davis: 19
Jon Rothstein: 25
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nbc-sports-top-25-duke-042850586.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nbc-sports-top-25-duke-042850586.html)UW moves up a spot on the strength of an OT loss to us.
21 in NBC Sports top 25
St. Louis Post Dispatch Mizzou beat writer Dave Matter has Marquette 15th this week in AP. He actually watches games and does his job well.
Matter no matta.
Katz has us 13... we beat Buffalo and we could see ourselves being considered top 10 on his list come conference
Katz has us 13... we beat Buffalo and we could see ourselves being considered top 10 on his list come conference
Not sure I like the dizzying talk of (dark)Matter and Katz both having us on the verge of the top10. Sonny might put Moysh in the bathroom with coffee-cake face....too many black cats. Expectedly, Kryptonite on the lead at Aqueduct.
Not sure I like the dizzying talk of (dark)Matter and Katz both having us on the verge of the top10. Sonny might put Moysh in the bathroom with coffee-cake face....too many black cats. Expectedly, Kryptonite on the lead at Aqueduct.
Impossible. Isn't "Katz hates us" one of the consistent whines 'round these parts?
Not sure I like the dizzying talk of (dark)Matter and Katz both having us on the verge of the top10. Sonny might put Moysh in the bathroom with coffee-cake face....too many black cats. Expectedly, Kryptonite on the lead at Aqueduct.
RPI has us at 19. Important end of year stat if we can hold/improve that ranking.
We have the opportunity to beat two 12's in a row. And maybe even 3 if Buffalo makes the jump after the rodents fall! We might have a new lucky number...Matt Heldt is fixen it up with the #12
Steele has us at 20.He also put Bucky at 21
21 pretty fair
Kentucky at 19 still is funny tho.
Not sure ASU has done much outside of only losing once to a great team
Surprising number of Pollsters didn't put us in after two top 15 wins
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2018
A few of these guys have KState and UW ranked and didn't include us wtf?
Surprising number of Pollsters didn't put us in after two top 15 wins
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2018
A few of these guys have KState and UW ranked and didn't include us wtf?
Surprising number of Pollsters didn't put us in after two top 15 wins
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2018
A few of these guys have KState and UW ranked and didn't include us wtf?
For the most part, the ballots we missed on are for the most part... very bad. That's being nice. Worst offender I've found: Jesse Newell
You should look at Graham Couchs top 25. He has us ranked at 20, but the rest is trash, starting with not having Duke, Kansas and Tennessee ranked.....
You should look at Graham Couchs top 25. He has us ranked at 20, but the rest is trash, starting with not having Duke, Kansas and Tennessee ranked.....
Read his article. He's simply making a point about putting your team out there on the road once or twice. It's December.
Read his article. He's simply making a point about putting your team out there on the road once or twice. It's December.
Did not make the coaches poll. Most points of others receiving votes though. Coaches still have Badgers 19 and K State 24. Maybe they didn't get the memo about us winning.
Seems like the Johnnies are being dissed by both the AP and the Coaches .
Buffalo needs to beat Southern Illinois and Syracuse so they come into our game undefeated and ranked.
You should look at Graham Couchs top 25. He has us ranked at 20, but the rest is trash, starting with not having Duke, Kansas and Tennessee ranked.....
If you disagree, feel free to email me (gcouch@lsj.com) or tweet at me (@Graham_Couch), but do so only after you email or tweet at your spineless coach, whose fear of the road makes my point. Or whose arrogance deserves to be admonished.
Did not make the coaches poll. Most points of others receiving votes though. Coaches still have Badgers 19 and K State 24. Maybe they didn't get the memo about us winning.
Seems like the Johnnies are being dissed by both the AP and the Coaches .
Buffalo needs to beat Southern Illinois and Syracuse so they come into our game undefeated and ranked.
That's up there with the "I didn't vote for Maddux because no one should be unanimous" garbage. You are given a privilege to vote--act like it is one.
He wrote an article on it that supports e why he did so and I think it's a fine opinion. He refuses to rank teams that haven't played on the road because he asserts they are effectively playing a different game. He also says he treats each week separately and reevaluates them all, so once they do play on the road, they will go to their deserving position, be it in the top-5 or anywhere else.
https://amp.lansingstatejournal.com/amp/2264942002?__twitter_impression=true
The best part was this:
I can respect that.
I will say it: I don't get Iowa ranked. They beat who...a disappointing Oregon team?
I will say it: I don't get Iowa ranked. They beat who...a disappointing Oregon team?
And Iowa State.
For the most part, the ballots we missed on are largely... very bad. That's being nice. Worst offender I've found: Jesse Newell
Looking at his twitter bio, he bases it off of KenPom. Comparing the two, they are very similar.
That is just pure laziness. If I wanted to know what the data and metrics say, I would just go to kenpom, et al directly.
He wrote an article on it that supports e why he did so and I think it's a fine opinion. He refuses to rank teams that haven't played on the road because he asserts they are effectively playing a different game. He also says he treats each week separately and reevaluates them all, so once they do play on the road, they will go to their deserving position, be it in the top-5 or anywhere else.
https://amp.lansingstatejournal.com/amp/2264942002?__twitter_impression=true
The best part was this:
I can respect that.
I know of Cecil Hurt from the Paul Finebaum Show. I shocked to know he evens follows basketball. I though he was 100% a football guy.
The big question is what is Buffalo ranked and can they beat Syracuse before coming to Milwaukee?
The big question is what is Buffalo ranked and can they beat Syracuse before coming to Milwaukee?
Luke DeCock has us at 23He had us at 24 last week
Buffalo has been interesting to watch. They gained a ton of credibility by winning at West Virginia who was ranked #13 to start the season. Since then, West Virginia has gone 5-3 with 0 top 100 KenPom wins and 2 losses to teams ranked below 90 in KenPom.
Other than the win at West Virginia, all of Buffalo's wins have been against sub 100 KenPom teams save a 4 point neutral court victory over #48 San Francisco.
They are definitely a top 40 team, and I think may be worthy of an at large bid by season's end, but as a top 15 team they are definitely a paper tiger.
The big question is what is Buffalo ranked and can they beat Syracuse before coming to Milwaukee?
Up 1 to number 20. Villanova is the only other Big East team receiving votes, though they are no longer ranked.
Up 1 to number 20. Villanova is the only other Big East team receiving votes, though they are no longer ranked.
The site isn't even refreshed, howd you see it?
Up 1 to number 20. Villanova is the only other Big East team receiving votes, though they are no longer ranked.
There's still voters with KSU and UW on their ballots and have us off. Its ridiculous how some of these guys can claim to take their job seriously...Brian Holland has us UR and the 6-5 Purdue @ 15...
Syracuse went from ranked 25th to 0 votes.Syracuse lost to OD at home and John Feinstein has NJIT at 25 and the rest of his bracket his pretty ridiculous...but hey he has us at 14 so maybe he is a genius ;D
And someone has NJIT 25th. Explain.
Syracuse lost to OD at home and John Feinstein has NJIT at 25 and the rest of his bracket his pretty ridiculous...but hey he has us at 14 so maybe he is a genius ;D
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
StJ is recieving votes, 59 of them, to Nova's 52.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice: I'm John Feinstein.
Feinstein ballot below.
1 Tennessee
2 Kansas (
3 Virginia
4 Duke
5 Michigan
6 Gonzaga
7 Nevada
8 North Carolina
9 Michigan State
10 Buffalo
11 Auburn
12 Texas Tech
13 Florida State
14 Marquette
15 Virginia Tech
16 Ohio State
17 Mississippi State
18 Oklahoma
19 Furman
20 Arizona State
21 Houston
22 Wisconsin
23 Kentucky
24 Belmont
25 NJIT
MU at #14! Awesome, this guy knows what he's talking ab-
<continues scrolling, sees Belmont #24 & NJIT #25>
Revoke his voting privileges permanently please. ASAP
Belmont is pretty damn good. They don’t have a lot on the resume but the UCLA win and two vs Lipscomb were very solid.
25 is overkill. But it’s not a complete out of nowhere pick
Yet this overrated, insufferable writer does it week after week.
So he is now ranking teams based on who it means more to? Yikes. Participation trophy.
So he is now ranking teams based on who it means more to? Yikes. Participation trophy.
So he is now ranking teams based on who it means more to? Yikes. Participation trophy.
Big opportunity week for moving up. We have a cupcake and home game against a top 15 team. A few of the teams in front us are playing some top teams and some sneaky good buy games. Everything comes up Marquette and we could be looking at a top 15 ranking.
#19 Kentucky vs #9 UNC#18 Arizona State @Vandy & vs #1 Kansas
#17 Mississippi State vs Wofford (top 75 KenPom)
#15 Ohio State vs UCLA
#14 Buffalo @CUSE & @#20 MARQ
#12 Texas Tech vs #2 Duke
#11 Florida State vs Saint Louis (top 75 KenPom)
#8 Auburn @NCST & vs Murray State (top 75 KenPom)
One down....
Don't jinx us brother. Just win.
Don't jinx us brother. Just win.
Graham Couch with Buffalo at 7, and has Big Ten programs overrated all over the place. Bucky at 10, Nebraska at 13, Iowa at 15, and Maryland at 19. Oh and he also has Kansas unranked
Big opportunity week for moving up. We have a cupcake and home game against a top 15 team. A few of the teams in front us are playing some top teams and some sneaky good buy games. Everything comes up Marquette and we could be looking at a top 15 ranking.
#19 Kentucky vs #9 UNC
#18 Arizona State @Vandy & vs #1 Kansas
#17 Mississippi State vs Wofford (top 75 KenPom)
#15 Ohio State vs UCLA
#14 Buffalo @CUSE & @#20 MARQ
#12 Texas Tech vs #2 Duke
#11 Florida State vs Saint Louis (top 75 KenPom)
#8 Auburn @NCST & vs Murray State (top 75 KenPom)
We should pass Kentucky this week. I watched their game with Seton Hall and was unimpressed.
And some UK fan on the college basketball subreddit said that UK would beat MU 6 out of 7 times because a) Hagans would shut down Howard and b) they’re taller than us (is that even true?). What a load of crap.
I tend to disagree. UK is 1-2 vs top-100 kenpom teams with the only win over #99 Greensboro. Their worst loss is to a Seton Hall team whose results haven't matched ours. Meanwhile, our two losses are better than their worst loss and we have three top-50 wins, three more than UK. Sizewise, Hagans is taller than Howard, but we're within an inch (some taller, some shorter) at every other position. I think it'd be close in a seven game series, and think our defense would give us a slight edge, but probably a coin flip.
Top 10? How many other teams with 3 top-15 wins and no losses outside current AP25?
We'll be between 15 and 20.
Hot take.
Big opportunity week for moving up. We have a cupcake and home game against a top 15 team. A few of the teams in front us are playing some top teams and some sneaky good buy games. Everything comes up Marquette and we could be looking at a top 15 ranking.
#19 Kentucky vs #9 UNC
#18 Arizona State @Vandy & vs #1 Kansas
#17 Mississippi State vs Wofford (top 75 KenPom)
#15 Ohio State vs UCLA
#14 Buffalo @CUSE & @#20 MARQ
#12 Texas Tech vs #2 Duke
#11 Florida State vs Saint Louis (top 75 KenPom)
#8 Auburn @NCST & vs Murray State (top 75 KenPom)
The rankings are about slowly establishing a position in voters minds. I say way make it to 16 or 17. I really feel it should be more like 14.
Why? We aren’t jumping 5 spots after a home win. Great win. But you have to work your way up the rankings.
I’m aware. I was being sarcastic.
Big opportunity week for moving up. We have a cupcake and home game against a top 15 team. A few of the teams in front us are playing some top teams and some sneaky good buy games. Everything comes up Marquette and we could be looking at a top 15 ranking.
#19 Kentucky vs #9 UNC#18 Arizona State @Vandy & vs #1 Kansas
#17 Mississippi State vs Wofford (top 75 KenPom)
#15 Ohio State vs UCLA#14 Buffalo @CUSE & @#20 MARQ#12 Texas Tech vs #2 Duke
#11 Florida State vs Saint Louis (top 75 KenPom)#8 Auburn @NCST & vs Murray State (top 75 KenPom)
No debate...Heldt always has the fix in....#12 bound
I see. I was just responding to what I quoted, someone asking if we’d be ranked in the top 10.In the AP they could jump ASU, Buffalo, and possibly Kentucky. Then they get put in a spot right next to UW, do some voters put MU in front of them? But yeah 16/17 probably.
If I have to pinpoint one number I’ll go 17 without much thought about who’s done what outside of MU and Buffalo.
That number and the Fiserv Forum don’t jive well.
FYI - The proper word is "jibe" not "jive".
This Auburn/Murray State game is a good one. Defense optional but both teams are going back and forth and hitting tough shots.
18 at best is what I think as well. Idk if we are getting much respect on the national stage yet which is mind-boggling. Currently Lunardi has us a 6-seed on the 21 Dec Bracketology. But still has buffalo as a 3-seed. That guy is kinda always out to lunch but even Kenpom still has us as #30 and Butler as #29!
18 at best is what I think as well. Idk if we are getting much respect on the national stage yet which is mind-boggling. Currently Lunardi has us a 6-seed on the 21 Dec Bracketology. But still has buffalo as a 3-seed. That guy is kinda always out to lunch but even Kenpom still has us as #30 and Butler as #29!
18 at best is what I think as well. Idk if we are getting much respect on the national stage yet which is mind-boggling. Currently Lunardi has us a 6-seed on the 21 Dec Bracketology. But still has buffalo as a 3-seed. That guy is kinda always out to lunch but even Kenpom still has us as #30 and Butler as #29!
After iMU beats #14 Buffalo by double digits, Gary Parrish ... drops us out of the top 25.
On the other hand, after its big win over Grambling (KenPom #281) Wisconsin moves up a spot.
Wut?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-kansas-loss-opens-door-for-tennessee-to-move-to-no-1-in-the-top-25-and-1/
I know I have Blue and Gold colored glasses on but I just don’t see how this is not a top 15 team.
It doesn’t really matter in the long run but three top 15 wins over the last 10 days should equal a top 15 ranking in my book.
What has Wisconsin done to earn their spot in the rankings? Comparing resumes I just don’t see it.
I guess they need to keep winning and eventually somebody will notice.
I'd love to see one of those blind side by side resume comparisons between MU and Wisconsin
Marquette:
NET: 13
KP: 30
RPI: 16
SOS: 22
Scoring Margin: +11.4
Home: 9-0
Away: 0-1
Neutral: 1-1
Group 1: 3-2
Group 2: 1-0
Group 3: 0-0
Group 4: 6-0
Top 5 wins: WIS (#5) vs UL (#17) BUFF (#20) KSU (32), PRES (#195)
Worst losses: vs KU (#4) @IND (#18)
Wisconsin:
NET: 5
KP: 12
RPI: 9
SOS: 20
Scoring Margin: +14.9
Home: 6-0
Away: 2-1
Neutral: 2-1
Group 1: 3-2
Group 2: 1-0
Group 3: 2-0
Group 4: 4-0
Top 5 wins: vs OU (#16) NCST (#8) @IOWA (#37) @XAV (#87) vs STAN (#103)
Worst losses: @UVA (#2) @MARQ (#13)
Yeah....their resume kicks our resume's arse and its not close. Not the team ahead of us that people should be complaining about.
I agree with your thinking, Thing - we beat 3 top 15 teams, we should be in the top fifteen.
But I'm thinking 16.
I wouldn't say that their resume beats ours by that much. What helps the computer numbers like NET and KP is the two road wins. We have none.
Seth Davis has us at 19. All 3 have us above Madison.
Yeah our resume is defintely better then our efficiency numbers.
So depending g on what you value you can make a case for a high or a lower ranking.
What percent of voters had us completely out last week?
Regardless of our ratings, tv loves us. We have a good looking, exciting team. Lots of good stories linking the present with the past. Announcers love doing our games. Especially at fiserv forum. A great place/atmosphere to do commentary...and get paid for it🤑
Parish has us at 26.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-kansas-loss-opens-door-for-tennessee-to-move-to-no-1-in-the-top-25-and-1/
Parish has the worst rankings out there. Good thing he’s not an AP voter.
Has he responded any any of the MU fans giving him crap on Twitter?
It is fun to have a team successful enough to feel disrespected.
Rothstein had us at 13 in his tweet and 24 on his ballot. 2 voters that had MU unranked has Kansas State, Buffalo and Wisconsin ranked...
How do these people have jobs?
All comes down to road wins. If we beat St. Johns and Nova on the road we will get a big jump. We have 3 top 15 wins but all were at home.
Also keep in mind that we were jumped by Kentucky and Arizona state for big wins against North Carolina and Kansas. Without those wins Marquette is sitting at 16.
Texas tech still way up there???
Shouldn’t the johnnies be ranked then???
Rothstein had us at 13 in his tweet and 24 on his ballot. 2 voters that had MU unranked has Kansas State, Buffalo and Wisconsin ranked...
How do these people have jobs?
Because credibility is not required.That and a 56 game hitting streak
The year that Ted Williams hit .406? He lost MVP because one writer did not have even him on his ballot because he thought Ted wasn't respectful enough to writers.
Credibility is not required.
Not what I'm seeing on Rothstein
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jon-rothstein
I expect they'll be ranked just as soon as they beat someone. Seton Hall on the road may be enough. Seton Hall and Marquette definitely would be. That #344 SOS and zero top-50 wins is pretty unconvincing.
Rothstein had us at 13 in his tweet and 24 on his ballot. 2 voters that had MU unranked has Kansas State, Buffalo and Wisconsin ranked...
How do these people have jobs?
18Good news is Buffalo is 21 and 22 in the polls respectively . They will likely stay around that level now that their conference starts.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
My point was more in regards to TT. Whose ranked 11th with 1 loss and has a similarly awful SOS with really minimal in the way of wins...yet SJU is the one punished.
I just don’t get the TT love affair.
You might be right, and it doesn’t even take a rocket surgeon to figure that out
Jaime, is dat ewe, hey?
Not what I'm seeing on RothsteinRick Bozich moved us down 3 spots? >:(
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jon-rothstein
Rick Bozich moved us down 3 spots? >:(
I thought Bozich had us unranked last week.
Davis moved us down 2.
I’m really trying to think objectively and I can’t see how the resumes of the 17 teams are better than ours. I do think that playing only one true road game (and getting crushed) is holding us back. Let’s go to work and win some conference road games!
Jumping or leapfrogging teams in the polls is faily uncommon. Seems you have to beat a top 5 team is the only way you leapfrog teams to any significant degree. Ascension innthe polls is a factor of continuing to win as those teams directly ahead of you lose. Right or wrong its how it has historically worked. I have no issue with being “underranked” (not sure that we are) as id prefer not to have that much of a bigger target on our back as we go out on the road in the BE
Went through and checked, we are still unranked by three ballots: Damien Sordelett (Liberty beat writer for The News & Advance), Jesse Newell (Kansas beat writer for Kansas City Star), and Scott Wolf (USC beat writer for LA Daily News)
Our highest rank was #10 and given to us by Shannon Ryan of the Chicago Tribune.
Alright people you know what to do. Time to make the invisible hand of scoop known. Everyone go subscribe to the Chicago Tribune. If you have subscriptions to the News & Advance, KC Star, or LA Daily News cancel them. Follow up with a letter writing campaign to make sure they know why.
To repeat my post from 5 pages ago, just sayin
Right or wrong that is how polls werk. Most times someone ahead of you has to lose. It was a week of ranked teams not playing or winning. Thats how it goes. No conspiracy theory no espn bias, no anything just same as it ever was.
I just read Shannon Ryan’s coverage of the Busch Bragging Rights game between the Illini and Missouri. I remembered your post here, and....
In keeping with the spirit of the season, I just emailed her a note of “Thanks” for acknowledging the recent exploits of our beloved WarriorEagles by rewarding us with a #10 ranking.
In my email, I touched on how hard it is for private schools not named Duke to get our just recognition. I also suggested some Tribune coverage of both the huge recent successes of Val Ackerman and of the reincarnated league as a whole.
As a general rule, Marquette gets no love from Chicago media, even though it is the out-of-state private university with the most Illinois alumni except for Notre Dame. It annoys me that the morning news show will have the score from the ND game or even the Valparaiso game on the scroll, but not MU.
Went through and checked, we are still unranked by three ballots: Damien Sordelett (Liberty beat writer for The News & Advance), Jesse Newell (Kansas beat writer for Kansas City Star), and Scott Wolf (USC beat writer for LA Daily News)
Our highest rank was #10 and given to us by Shannon Ryan of the Chicago Tribune.
Alright people you know what to do. Time to make the invisible hand of scoop known. Everyone go subscribe to the Chicago Tribune. If you have subscriptions to the News & Advance, KC Star, or LA Daily News cancel them. Follow up with a letter writing campaign to make sure they know why.
It doesn't make sense that the varmints are ranked better than Marquette. We have played a tougher schedule and beat them.
It doesn't make sense that the varmints are ranked better than Marquette. We have played a tougher schedule and beat them.
We are ranked just fine. We are 1-2 outside of the FF. We have 2 losses and 4 solid wins. We should be ranked somewhere between 15 and 20, and we're ranked 18. We're right where we deserve to be.
The number in the win column is what is really important.
I thought the next game was all that is important?
As a general rule, Marquette gets no love from Chicago media, even though it is the out-of-state private university with the most Illinois alumni except for Notre Dame. It annoys me that the morning news show will have the score from the ND game or even the Valparaiso game on the scroll, but not MU.
MU is definitely ND's second fiddle, but they do get occasional coverage in the Tribune.
ASU goes down to known powerhouse Princeton. I imagine they drop out of the polls this coming week.
Marquette at minimum 17 on Monday. Should be higher.
Everyone ignored the loss to Vandy because ASU beat Kansas. That's just karma.
I think Gard May be gone after this season.
I think Gard May be gone after this season.
I doubt it. Top half Big 10 finish and they'll be dancing. But glad to see Bucky go down. We're up to 16 at worst.Alvarez is a competitive guy and he can see they are not recruiting the talent necessary to compete. So I think it is possible they make go in a different direction.
Alvarez is a competitive guy and he can see they are not recruiting the talent necessary to compete. So I think it is possible they make go in a different direction.
If Barry cared about basketball he wouldn’t have caved into WKU’s demand that in order to play at Camp Randall they needed a home and home in basketball in return.Gard has a save his job potential recruit...
Gard has a save his job potential recruit...
https://247sports.com/college/wisconsin/Article/Wisconsin-Basketball-Recruiting-Nicolet-2020-GF-Jalen-Johnson-Says-Badgers-Wil-126173814/
We will be ranked numero 16.
I think Gard May be gone after this season.I don't bet, but if I did that would want some of that action.
They might be on his list until the end, but I'll be shocked if he picks UW-M.+100. Especially since Gard is apparently on the way out after this year. 😉
Gard has a save his job potential recruit...
https://247sports.com/college/wisconsin/Article/Wisconsin-Basketball-Recruiting-Nicolet-2020-GF-Jalen-Johnson-Says-Badgers-Wil-126173814/
What would Bucky be today without the Bo recruit Ian Happ?
...(Off thread)
Remember Diamond Stone was with the Badgers until the end, how did that work out?
Right last week at 18......Will be right this week at 16......who could we jump to get to 15?
We could squeak into 15.....But I will give us the biased East Coast /ACC non votes to make us a little short.....
Rothstein has us 14th.
We will move ahead of asu n wisky to 16thYes ty
Very simple
Ben Steele
Marquette is up to No 16 in AP poll. Every time #mubb moves up it becomes the highest spot in the Steve Wojciechowski era.
Ben Steele
Marquette is up to No 16 in AP poll. Every time #mubb moves up it becomes the highest spot in the Steve Wojciechowski era.
Easiest call ever, all u twitter watchers n prognosticators firget how tgese polls werk. Pay attention
Everyone knows how the polls work. However the methodology of how they work is inherently flawed.
Everyone knows how the polls work. However the methodology of how they work is inherently flawed.
Which poll does everyone think is MOST credible or do you think is the best gauge?
I think the coaches poll would be the most accurate as these are guys who have a “front row seat” if you will. Just my opinion however
The polls are fun to talk about, and always nice to see one's team in them. But it's not as if they determine anything real, so the "methodology" isn't very important IMHO.
Some science/computer deniers put their faith in the polls. Las Vegas knows better and laughs.
MU ranked in the AP poll for the 365th time, good for 20th all time. Oklahoma has been ranked 366 times, they currently sit at 23rd this week.
But yes, the human polls are ridiculous. The humans cannot remember each game played, or who the opponent's opponent was in other games....the capability isn't there. They are for discussion only, their value is weak.
Which is what everybody has been saying.
The value, to me at least, is that our scores are shown more often in the bottom scrolls on ESPN and FS1, newspapers from around the country are more likely to carry little AP blurbs about our games, etc. Every little bit of positive recognition can only help recruiting and foster school pride.
But as far as meaning anything in the grand scheme ... of course not.
Yup. Hawaii. Denver. LSU. The 3 best home court advantages in all of America. Vegas is laughing very hard.
#scientificallyproven #lol
You're not the first "smart guy" who thinks his opinions are worth more than the science Vegas uses to set their lines. Those "smart guys" fall into two categories: big shots who just flap their gums and guys who arrive in Vegas in $40,000 cars and leave in $800,000 buses. Hope for your sake you're the former.
Happy New Year!
Fivethirtyeight went back and looked at every preseason poll and compared how teams in the NCAA Tournament did against each other who based on number of votes received. So basically if the number 5 preseason team played the team in “others receiving votes” in that season’s NCAA Tournamebt did the number 5 team win? They looked at the last 16 years I believe and the team that had more votes won 72% of the games.
My guess is if you looked at KenPom’s preseason ranking the higher ranked team would win no more than 75%, and honestly I’d bet it’d be lower than 72%.
The preseason rankings aren’t perfect. But they’re actually pretty good. And KenPom isn’t perfect either. Unless you think LSU is impossible to go into and win at.
The preseason rankings aren’t perfect. But they’re actually pretty good. And KenPom isn’t perfect either. Unless you think LSU is impossible to go into and win at.
This will be my last attempt to try to explain this to a dedicated flat earther. Ken Pom has never said that it's impossible to win at LSU, only that based on actual results (rather than an opinion pulled out of one's backside) LSU is 4 points better on their home court than they are on a neutral site. Indiana is 3.6 points better. So that's how much the dumb guys in Vegas adjust the lines. Smart guys like you who know this is BS put the casinos out of business on a regular basis. LOL.
This will be my last attempt to try to explain this to a dedicated flat earther. Ken Pom has never said that it's impossible to win at LSU, only that based on actual results (rather than an opinion pulled out of one's backside) LSU is 4 points better on their home court than they are on a neutral site. Indiana is 3.6 points better. So that's how much the dumb guys in Vegas adjust the lines. Smart guys like you who know this is BS put the casinos out of business on a regular basis. LOL.
Nate Silver made his millions by weighting and aggregating polls and there's a reason for it. It's simple, but different methodologies are going to have different components in the error terms. Human polls will have certain biases, but also pick up on some things the computers don't. I put together a side-by-side of NET, KenPom and Human polls. The variance by team isn't huge.
The average standard deviation in the top 25 is 3.83.
"Noisiest" teams in all four metrics (std dev) are:
Houston (11.87)
Iowa (9.5)
Florida (8)
Marquette is a bit noisier than normal with std dev of it's rankings of 6.22.
Would be interesting to see how this has evolved/evolves over time.
Team NET AP Coach Kenpom Mean Std Dev
Duke 1 1 1 1 1.00 0.00
Michigan 2 2 4 4 3.00 1.15
Virginia 3 4 2 2 2.75 0.96
Houston 4 19 17 33 18.25 11.87
Texas Tech 5 11 11 10 9.25 2.87
Tennessee 6 3 3 11 5.75 3.77
Gonzaga 7 7 8 3 6.25 2.22
NC State 8 18 19 22 16.75 6.08
Michigan St. 9 8 7 5 7.25 1.71
Nevada 10 6 5 8 7.25 2.22
Kentucky 11 13 14 13 12.75 1.26
Nebraska 12 24 23 15 18.50 5.92
Wisconsin 13 22 23 14 18.00 5.23
Marquette 14 16 18 28 19.00 6.22
Kansas 15 5 6 6 8.00 4.69
Virginia Tech 16 10 10 9 11.25 3.20
North Carolina 17 15 15 7 13.50 4.43
Oklahoma 18 23 25 24 22.50 3.11
Mississippi St. 19 17 16 20 18.00 1.83
Indiana 20 21 22 26 22.25 2.63
Ohio St. 21 14 12 25 18.00 6.06
Auburn 22 12 13 12 14.75 4.86
Florida St. 23 9 9 16 14.25 6.70
Buffalo 24 20 20 29 23.25 4.27
Cincinnati 25 31 28 27 27.75 2.50
Louisville 26 36 42 34.67 18.55
LSU 27 40 33.50 20.06
Iowa St. 28 32 31 18 27.25 6.40
Purdue 29 34 35 19 29.25 7.32
TCU 30 30 29 23 28.00 3.37
Villanova 31 28 27 21 26.75 4.19
Kansas St. 32 27 30 35 31.00 3.37
Florida 33 33 33 17 29.00 8.00
Utah St. 34 48 41.00 24.35
Iowa 35 25 20 41 30.25 9.50
St. John's (NY) 36 37 38 51 40.50 7.05
Isn't the problem here what they are trying to measure?
Some of these measures, like NET and partially the polls are giving us a snapshot of "now." Others like Kenpom and also partially the polls are trying to project where things are going to finish the year. Isn't this why the human pollster various so much? Some are trying to pick the top 25 teams now while others are trying to "guess" what will be the top 25 teams at the end of the season. (you agree with this?)
So, the question is what are we more interested in? The top 25 teams today or a guess at the top 25 teams at the end of the season? Above is a mixture of both.
The NET is more forgiving. Ken Pom punishes Marquette for a 23 point loss at Indiana but the NET caps the loss at 10.
Also, the 9 point win against UTEP is a big miss in Ken Pom, which projected a 20+ point win. But a 9 point win is almost the same as a 10 point win on the NET.
#FakeNews
#Lies
It doesn't? I was under the impression that it did. Is there a cap with NET? Is it a sliding scale for home/neutral/away?
I think what Jay Bee is getting at is that NET measures efficiency no matter what the score. The margin of victory is capped at 10.
Okay sorry so what was wrong with what Lazar's Headband wrote? Genuinely do not know the nuances with the new NET rating.
So even though margin of victory is capped you still get credit for efficiency for points scored or scored against you beyond a margin of victory. So the "loss isn't capped at 10" because you are still gaining and losing credit for points scored beyond 10 points. The correct thing to say would have been "margin of victory is capped at 10."
Of course, I think most people knew what LH was referring to.
Okay sorry so what was wrong with what Lazar's Headband wrote? Genuinely do not know the nuances with the new NET rating.
Okay so efficiency #'s that go into the NET calc are relatively in line with KenPom ranking/methodology and unaffected by a cap, but there is a 10 point cap for a separate win margin metric that is factored in to the overall NET
Is that more or less correct to say?
So you're admitting that you're wrong? Because I said Assembly Hall is a top 3 difficult place to play in in America. Which has nothing to do with how many points Las Vegas gives to a team playing in their home arena. You came up with Hawaii, Denver, and LSU. I come up with Kansas, Duke, and Indiana. One is very LOL-ish. I'll let you decide which it is.
But yes. Now we're going even more scientific and we're saying Las Vegas odds are the way to determine how good a team is. This is great stuff Lenny.
No, quite the contrary. You are one of those guys who makes off the cuff statements that seem at least somewhat logical on their face but don't stand up to any statistical analysis or scrutiny. And when you're shown the evidence that the earth isn't flat you "lol"- either because the evidence is over your head or because you're stubborn. Either way, I won't take up any more of my (or Scoop's) time trying to explain what you can't or won't understand.
Jeesh, wades, you sure do laugh out loud a lot.
Those around you must need earplugs.
will 16 be the high water mark this year?
will 16 be the high water mark this year?
16 is no doubt the highest we will go but thats better than anything i expected this year which was a just outside the top 25 team.
Right now we just gotta hope we make the tourney
Right now we just gotta hope we make the tourney
No.
Agreed, could see us rip off a 7 game win streak here, and if so we'd be top 10 by attrition alone in all likelihood
16 is no doubt the highest we will go but thats better than anything i expected this year which was a just outside the top 25 team.Hey, you're famous! Made Scoop Takes...
Right now we just gotta hope we make the tourney
Could be. I think we will be multi possession favorites in every one of the next seven games except maybe at Creighton and Hall at home and I think we are favored in both of those. All that being said, I still think 6-1 is more likely than 7-0.
Just to confirm that Gary Parrish never makes sense ...
After thumping Buffalo, he moved MU out of the top 25.
After getting thumped by St. John's, he moved MU up to 23rd.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-nc-state-no-13-in-the-top-25-and-1-looks-for-first-road-win-at-miami/
Big East could have three teams ranked next week for the first time. St. Johns really should climb in, as should Seton Hall. Villanova will also be really close. I imagine all there of SJU, SH and Nova will be between like 23 and the top 5 vote getters not in top 25.we still could be in too
we still could be in too
We will still be ranked. I was including MU in the three. I doubt all three of SJU, Nova and SHU get into top 25, but I could see two of them, with the last team close.There are definitely 4 teams that are “rankable” . As to which ones actually get ranked ,I think it comes down to how all the other ranked teams handle conference play after this weekends cycle of games.
unforgiving.......22........
18. With SJU entering the top 25.
And the 6 teams below MU passing us are who exactly?My guess is 21...with these 5 jumping us
My guess is 21...with these 5 jumping usThat would be a solid outcome for MU.
Iowa State
Houston
Buffalo
Miss State
NC State
My guess is 21...with these 5 jumping us
Iowa State
Houston
Buffalo
Miss State
NC State
I'm thinking 19. Mississippi State, NC State, and Houston pass us. Buffalo might but I think the head to head matchup may lead enough voters to rank us above them.Indiana did not get that benefit. But maybe there was something different in their case.
Indiana did not get that benefit. But maybe there was something different in their case.
Luke DeCock dropped MU to 25 from 16 and dropped UW from 20 to 22. Real headscratcher....
Luke DeCock dropped MU to 25 from 16 and dropped UW from 20 to 22. Real headscratcher....
Just keep winning now. There is no reason not to win our next 6 games in a row. We will be heavily favored in all of them except maybe Hall.
21 it is.........SJ also ranked Nova firs]t team out....https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll/2019/10I'll take it. Six Big Ten teams in a row in the "Others Receiving Votes" section. Wow.
Not quite.
KenPom has us losing by 3 to Creighton. Favored by 6 against Seton Hall.
Just keep winning now. There is no reason not to win our next 6 games in a row. We will be heavily favored in all of them except maybe Hall.
Luke DeCock does have a pen name. Unfortunately, it’s Han Le Schlong. So...
Heavily favored? No. Only 3 of those games are .. likely wins.
We could go 3-3 over the next 6. And 3-5 over the next 8.
#Sadtrombone
Just keep winning now. There is no reason not to win our next 6 games in a row. We will be heavily favored in all of them except maybe Hall.
All I'm saying is if we want to take the next step as a program, beating Creighton on the road in a down year for them is simply necessary.
If we lose at Creighton and then win, say, 10 of our next 11, will that Creighton game really have seemed "necessary" in retrospect?
Aside from reciting the mandatory "the next game is the biggest" adage before every game, beating Creighton is no more "necessary" than beating St. John's or Xavier was, IMHO. When this season is done, I think I'll STILL be saying that the Louisville win was our biggest of the season for reasons I already mentioned.
Perspective. Everybody on this board will know when we have arrived at a game that is truly "necessary." It might not be till March.
Of course we could, but if this years team is supposed to be "different," we should be expecting a bit more.
Bert's got VPI in the top 10 now.
Does Bart stay after this year?
21 it is.........SJ also ranked Nova firs]t team out....https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll/2019/10
Does Bart stay after this year?Who flushes?
Luke DeCock does have a pen name. Unfortunately, it’s Han Le Schlong. So...
Bert's got VPI in the top 10 now.
It could be argued but considering we got blown out by St Johns and they were in it against Minnesota, and they won big on the road while we won big at home I think it's fair to drop us more than Bucky this week.
Let's revisit this when they actually play somebody good...
Badgers looked god awful vs minny. Right after losing to WKU and we beat them. Not much justification at this point.
Yeah they got the game close, but really never had a chance with how horrendous everyone but Happ played(and with his 1/8 free throw shooting).
I mean we looked god awful against St Johns and didn't manage to get the score close. They also beat a team on the road by more than we beat a team at home in the same week. I think you can argue how much he dropped each of us but if I was a voter I would have dropped us more spots than Bucky.
I mean we looked god awful against St Johns and didn't manage to get the score close. They also beat a team on the road by more than we beat a team at home in the same week. I think you can argue how much he dropped each of us but if I was a voter I would have dropped us more spots than Bucky.
Yep, we will not impress voters until we can prove we can cross the street by ourselves.
It’s less that we dropped more
And the fact we dropped behind them.
That I just don’t see at this juncture. I got no qualms with us being somewhere in the 20s.
Just don’t think Bucky should be even ranked at this point
If we win our next two, we should move up a decent amount. Where do you guys think our ceiling could be after this week
If we win our next two, we should move up a decent amount. Where do you guys think our ceiling could be after this week
11 Auburn lost to unranked South Carolina, 16 Ohio State lost to unranked Rutgers, and 17 Houston lost to unranked Temple. Along with the Mississippi State, NC State, & Iowa State losses, a win over Seton Hall could put us in the top-15.
If Nova wins tomorrow will they re ranked?
too early to be ranked where i think we should be. the higher the rank, the bigger the target on your back, just win baby, but stay under the radar until the final weeks. top 10 going into MM would be cool
I understand why you'd prefer this, but it's too late.
We are nowhere near "under the radar" any more. Heck, there have been a dozen national articles/TV segments about Markus alone.
I think the publicity we got after Wednesday's game could be worth an extra spot or two in the polls.
I think 17 because there is not a lot of respect for the Big East
This is my thinking too. Many not buying the Big East as equal to other power conferences , maybe Nova but not the rest of the teams.
Just keep pluging away and prove them wrong.
I think 17 because there is not a lot of respect for the Big East
Seth Davis has Mu 13
Seth Davis has Mu 13what did he have us last week
what did he have us last week
I'm thinking it will be 16, passing Iowa State, Ohio State, Mississippi State, Houston, and Buffalo. NC State, North Carolina, Auburn, and Florida State all lost but I don't think they get punished enough for us to move up.
13 for Rothstein as well
Don't think we pass Buff.......they had 2 blowout wins.....1 against a decent Toledo team. Our resume is better but they are ahead of us in the computer models.
Osterman has us at 18. 20 last week
Steele has MU at 14
I'm thinking it will be 16, passing Iowa State, Ohio State, Mississippi State, Houston, and Buffalo. NC State, North Carolina, Auburn, and Florida State all lost but I don't think they get punished enough for us to move up.
Nobody is knocking MU because of a “lack of respect for the BE.” Gonzaga is ranked in the top 5. Is the Mountain West being viewed as a top conference in the country? Buffalo is ranked in the top 20. Is the MAC bumping them up in voters’ eyes? Houston was ranked in the top 20. I don’t think anyone is calling the AAC better than the BE even in the BE’s “down year.”
We haven’t done anything to show we’re a top 10 team. If we get ranked 16 and really should be 14 does that mean we’re disrespected? Not really, it more likely means the difference between 14 and 16 is an opinion and very minimal. Heck we’re ranked top 20 in the country and KenPom has us in the 30s. I don’t know why people think we aren’t getting respect.
DeCock At 14 (25 last week).
I think we are going to make a nice jump this week and end up at 15-16.
Bozich has us at 23. Still has Miss St ranked ahead of us and Nova at 18Can’t fix stupid
Road win in resume likely influencing some
I used to use a site called RPI forecast but since the NCAA is using different metrics it doesn't look like the RPI site updates anymore. Does anyone know of a live net ranking site where is shows the probability of each win/loss.?
Also publicity. It's honestly amazing how much voters seem to be influenced by publicity.
17 for Couch and Murray.Couch had us at 17 last week and Murry had us at 25.
Both have the Badgers in their top 25 still--murray moving them from NR to 23--which is a bold move given they lost at home this week.
Couch had us at 17 last week and Murry had us at 25.
Just don't understand how people can keep us the same after 2 wins when basically every other team 12-25 had a loss
Couch had us at 17 last week and Murry had us at 25.
Just don't understand how people can keep us the same after 2 wins when basically every other team 12-25 had a loss
I'm not agreeing with them, but I think some voters could choose to minimize a win where a team trails for the entire game and then wins only because of a fluke mistake by the other team.
Maybe. I think they are just idiots mostly
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
15
Highest rank of the Wojo Era! nicely done boys, we know they couldn't do it with our Scoop!!! :)
Jesse Newell's bracket is painful to look at. Cringe worthy
can somebody dig up what our highest ranking has even been during regular season in the post crean era?
thanks for any help
Jesse Newell's bracket is painful to look at. Cringe worthy
Where do you see his rankings this week? Not loaded on the AP site yet, and I don't see them on his twitter feed.https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jesse-newell
Where do you see his rankings this week? Not loaded on the AP site yet, and I don't see them on his twitter feed.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jesse-newell
try not to puke.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jesse-newell
try not to puke.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jesse-newell
try not to puke.
That dude needs his privileges to vote revoked. That is ridiculous. It's like he just picks 25 teams out of a hat and orders them randomly
https://247sports.com/Article/College-basketball-coaches-poll-week-10-127816131/
13 in the coaches poll
https://247sports.com/Article/College-basketball-coaches-poll-week-10-127816131/
13 in the coaches poll
That dude needs his privileges to vote revoked. That is ridiculous. It's like he just picks 25 teams out of a hat and orders them randomly
https://247sports.com/Article/College-basketball-coaches-poll-week-10-127816131/Also made the headline in that poll
13 in the coaches poll
I gave him some crap on twitter for his rankings of Florida (25), Wisconsin (16), Purdue (15) and Nebraska (14), which seemed like the most out of leftfield teams he had ranked, and where. He responded that he uses per possession measures like Kempom, TRANK, Sagarin, etc., for his rankings. As someone else said, it actually looks like he may just use Kenpom verbatim. Seems super lazy to me, but at least he has some method and isn't actually ranking these teams based on who he thinks are the best teams or resumes.
His response had me thinking, why are the per possession metrics like Kenpom (34), Torvik (38) and Haslam (43) so much lower on Marquette? @BrewCity77, @TAMU Eagle or somebody else who pays more attention to metrics care to explain?
I gave him some crap on twitter for his rankings of Florida (25), Wisconsin (16), Purdue (15) and Nebraska (14), which seemed like the most out of leftfield teams he had ranked, and where. He responded that he uses per possession measures like Kempom, TRANK, Sagarin, etc., for his rankings. As someone else said, it actually looks like he may just use Kenpom verbatim. Seems super lazy to me, but at least he has some method and isn't actually ranking these teams based on who he thinks are the best teams or resumes.
His response had me thinking, why are the per possession metrics like Kenpom (34), Torvik (38) and Haslam (43) so much lower on Marquette? @BrewCity77, @TAMU Eagle or somebody else who pays more attention to metrics care to explain?
Anyone else looking forward (hopefully) to the Monday where we outrank VT? I know it's petty, but it'll be a nice reminder that MU and the Big East are just fine, Mr. teamcoachbuzzusahooaaa. And if there's a stretch for it to happen, this next 2 weeks seems like the one. We have a relatively light schedule, while VT sees Virginia, UNC, and Syracuse.
Sidebar: that SOTG image of Theo needs to become a banner on the side of the FF.
Anyone else looking forward (hopefully) to the Monday where we outrank VT? I know it's petty, but it'll be a nice reminder that MU and the Big East are just fine, Mr. teamcoachbuzzusahooaaa. And if there's a stretch for it to happen, this next 2 weeks seems like the one. We have a relatively light schedule, while VT sees Virginia, UNC, and Syracuse.
Sidebar: that SOTG image of Theo needs to become a banner on the side of the FF.
I think it would be better if Marquette made a deep run even to the S16 ahead of Buzz. VT was not a powerhouse program nor will they ever be in the ACC. I think it would be sweet revenge knowing that he left Marquette and 5 years later they are better than the team he left for even with dealing with the mess he left behind. VT still has yet to with a NCAA touranment game under him. Likely that changes this year barring an upset but still taking longer at VT than we all thought.
Bert has been there 5 years now, I'd be surprised if he doesn't take a different job this offseason. But frankly, I don't really care much about Buzz one way or the other. He was a great coach at MU and I loved his teams. He left in douchey fashion, no doubt. But don't really care all that much one way or the other about how he does.
Anyways, I've done enough of my part to derail this thread into another Buzz thread...
I gave him some crap on twitter for his rankings of Florida (25), Wisconsin (16), Purdue (15) and Nebraska (14), which seemed like the most out of leftfield teams he had ranked, and where. He responded that he uses per possession measures like Kempom, TRANK, Sagarin, etc., for his rankings. As someone else said, it actually looks like he may just use Kenpom verbatim. Seems super lazy to me, but at least he has some method and isn't actually ranking these teams based on who he thinks are the best teams or resumes.
His response had me thinking, why are the per possession metrics like Kenpom (34), Torvik (38) and Haslam (43) so much lower on Marquette? @BrewCity77, @TAMU Eagle or somebody else who pays more attention to metrics care to explain?
Quick off the top of my head answer, those metrics love themselves some blowouts. We don't blow teams out but we do win. If you look at KenPom, they will tell you that we are the 31st luckiest team in the country. It's not wrong to say that we are very lucky to be where we are now. A few individual plays go the other way and we could be 10-7 right now.
Personally, I think the answer is somewhere between polls and the metrics. I still think we look like a team ranked somewhere between 20-30. We have the resume of a team ranked 10-20, and that suits me just fine.
Think we were ranked 7 in jae's jr or senior year for a week or two
Rankings are like candy. You feel really nice when you consume but does not mean a whole lot in the greater scheme of things.
Just win, Baby!
Rankings are like candy. You feel really nice when you consume but does not mean a whole lot in the greater scheme of things.
Just win, Baby!
Hopefully recruits like candy!
Think we were ranked 7 in jae's jr or senior year for a week or two
Hopefully recruits like candy!
We were ranked #7 in the ESPN/Coaches poll for a week until we lost at Cincy that same week.
Still think that team was better than the one that went to the Elite Eight the following year.
His response had me thinking, why are the per possession metrics like Kenpom (34), Torvik (38) and Haslam (43) so much lower on Marquette? @BrewCity77, @TAMU Eagle or somebody else who pays more attention to metrics care to explain?
They were, when otule went down they didnt have a shot against any tall teams.
I liked our ranking at the end of our game on March 28, 1977.
I was going to write a long explanation, but Andrei Greska did it for me: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=57504.0
Very thorough explanation of rankings over at PTs which sadly makes me think that we might be a tad overrated in the AP poll. Good news is we can now probably survive an 0-2 week still ranked. Realistically we could easily be 1-3 in the BE, UL could have made one of those 3 game ending layups, the UW game, etc., however good TEAMS figure out how to win these close games and use luck in their favor. That said sure would like to see an easy blowout of someone soon.
The good news is that we have underperformed. We're better than we have played to date. Ed, Charty can definitely play better this year. Hoping Jamal elevates things.
Marquette was ranked 7 in the end of season poll that year.
Very thorough explanation of rankings over at PTs which sadly makes me think that we might be a tad overrated in the AP poll. Good news is we can now probably survive an 0-2 week still ranked. Realistically we could easily be 1-3 in the BE, UL could have made one of those 3 game ending layups, the UW game, etc., however good TEAMS figure out how to win these close games and use luck in their favor. That said sure would like to see an easy blowout of someone soon.
And Markus still hasn't scored 50 in regulation, he's shooting under 50% from 2 on the year... gonna be great when he finally puts it all together!
Maybe it was just my eyes seeing what they wanted to see, but I thought Sam looked a step quicker and more athletic the last couple of games. For example, in one sequence against SH, he displayed really nice lateral quickness and perfectly timed his jump to block a shot. Reminded me of freshman and early soph Sam.I agree '82! A couple of times recently, when Sam was on defense, I said to myself: Yes, that's the footwork I remember!
I hope I wasn't seeing things!
I like wins above bubble, which rewards teams that win games, based off of a schedule strength. You can really see who has padded their win totals against bad teams (sup @teamcoachbuzz). We are #17 in that right now.
Maybe it was just my eyes seeing what they wanted to see, but I thought Sam looked a step quicker and more athletic the last couple of games. For example, in one sequence against SH, he displayed really nice lateral quickness and perfectly timed his jump to block a shot. Reminded me of freshman and early soph Sam.
I hope I wasn't seeing things!
I remember one play in particular where he had the ball near the top of the key and blew by a defender for a pretty nice up layup where he switched hands.
More of that from Sammy por favor.
I remember one play in particular where he had the ball near the top of the key and blew by a defender for a pretty nice up layup where he switched hands.
More of that from Sammy por favor.
We are definitely due for a Sam blackout game.
That’s why it’s nice we are 3-1 already. He hasn’t gotten hot.
Hoping since him and Joey were both off vs SHU we might make it rain tonight
The thing I’m looking forward to the most is when Joey goes off one game and some opposing fan inevitably says, “Wait, you mean we have 3 more years of Hauser to deal with?”
Thank you Bo Ryan.
FWIW 26 voters has NC State ahead of us in their rankings. Even the teams behind us losing helps a good deal in the rankings
Where can you see who voted for whom?
Move up 1 freaking spot in the NET for winning a top 100 road game?? Give me a freaking break - 11-6 Purdue and Wisconsin still ahead -
It's a mathematical equation, so that's just how the metric works.
Move up 1 freaking spot in the NET for winning a top 100 road game?? Give me a freaking break - 11-6 Purdue and Wisconsin still ahead -
I mean it is a top 100 road game...barely. Georgetown is 99 in NET.
Metrics like NET don't take things like injuries into account. All it knows is that we were expected to win by about 3 and we won by three. Not going to do much for your rankings.
Plus, if you charted the NET rankings, Id bet you'd see a bell curve. The closer you are to #1, the more difficult it is to move up.
And it's patently wrong.
Patently wrong? No. It's just imperfect, like every other attempt to calculate basketball teams is imperfect. Pomeroy is imperfect, Torvik is imperfect, Sagarin is imperfect, and the NET is imperfect. It's certainly less flawed than the RPI was, which frankly should be the benchmark we are using to evaluate it.
When you have a circumstance where Team A can beat Team B, Team B can beat Team C, and Team C can beat Team A, it makes for a very difficult exact evaluation model. Especially when you have variables like illness, injury tweaks, and other incredibly unpredictable factors. For Marquette, if they want to make strides in the computer models, they need to minimize their losing margins and maximize their winning margins. Thus far we have done the opposite.
“You play to maximize your efficiency!” - College Basketball Herm Edwards
Patently wrong? No. It's just imperfect, like every other attempt to calculate basketball teams is imperfect. Pomeroy is imperfect, Torvik is imperfect, Sagarin is imperfect, and the NET is imperfect. It's certainly less flawed than the RPI was, which frankly should be the benchmark we are using to evaluate it.
When you have a circumstance where Team A can beat Team B, Team B can beat Team C, and Team C can beat Team A, it makes for a very difficult exact evaluation model. Especially when you have variables like illness, injury tweaks, and other incredibly unpredictable factors. For Marquette, if they want to make strides in the computer models, they need to minimize their losing margins and maximize their winning margins. Thus far we have done the opposite.
The whole Purdue love baffles me. Edwards is feeaking awesome, the team sucks, the poll love n the computer love baffles me
4/6 losses by single digits, 16+ point winning margins in 6/11 wins (including top-125 Iowa, Davidson, Rutgers), haven't we covered this pretty thoroughly?
Not sure what poll love, though. Purdue isn't ranked in either poll, 100 points out of being ranked in the AP and only getting 3 points in the Coaches'.
They were ranked for a while for having beaten no one tho.
It’s a very meh team
To be fair, you say pretty much every team sucks on a daily basis. Doesn't matter if they actually do suck, or are a legit top 25 team.
To be fair, you say pretty much every team sucks on a daily basis. Doesn't matter if they actually do suck, or are a legit top 25 team.
Wrong.
I have not once said it about
Michigan, Tennessee(love them),Duke, Gonzaga(love them), Michigan state, Kansas(tho they now appear shaky), Nevada, TT, Ole miss, UNC, Houston, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Miss State, ISU, Iowa, Nebraska and pretty much any another team that’s been ranked at somepoint.
I’ve said all year Purdue is blah when they were ranked. I don’t think kentucky is close to what many think and I think Maryland is overrated.
I could add in some other teams I think are smoke and mirrors(some of which are in the first list of teams I haven’t mentioned) but I wouldn’t want to offend you.
Kstate sucks. Just can’t score. Had a shot to help us
WoW
ISU sucks worse what a choke.
Badgers looked god awful vs minny. Right after losing to WKU and we beat them. Not much justification at this point.
X sucks
But nice to see we can smash a team while not playing well.
Yeah I get ya. My point was more in regards to TT. Whose ranked 11th with 1 loss and has a similarly awful SOS with really minimal in the way of wins...yet SJU is the one punished.
I just don’t get the TT love affair.
It’s similar to the Purdue love affair a few weeks ago.
Complete joke this Maryland team was ranked at one point.
Complete joke this Maryland team was ranked at one point.
Kentucky is terrible
Herro and everyone of their guards simply are bad at the sport
Hall might get a good win
But it won’t stay good.
This Kentucky team is absolutely awful.
Not one player actually knows basketball.
Speaking of unimpressive
Purdue
Jeez i really hope we aren’t just not very good.
Offense is terrible again. Missing bunnies.
This UL team isn’t good
Auburn themselves were inconsistent and mostly terrible down the stretch.
Clamped down hard in OT
ND Sucks
I mean just a quick scan of your posts....
To be fair, you say pretty much every team sucks on a daily basis. Doesn't matter if they actually do suck, or are a legit top 25 team.
Lmao there’s a difference between saying Kstate and Iowa state in a game suck.
The badgers comment was a direct explanation to a rankings debate. Apparently also not allowed
TT was in regards to their resume. Again, kinda proves the brain power just isn’t up to standard.
Auburn played a terrible game. Not a terrible team.
And that I actually think Purdue Maryland and Kentucky actually suck to their rankings. And even my gripe with Purdue was solely their being ranked with only a win vs Davidson and 4 losses.
And yeah...not sure we are seeing Xavier ranked anytime soon.
So again, nice comp. But really this just proved you got lots of time, bad reading comprhension, are a little weird and dislike any teams being called bad
Lol just giving you a hard time man. That took me like 3 minutes to do. I don’t dislike teams being called bad, but you tend to spout off quite a bit about teams being terrible.
I mean just a quick scan of your posts....
Marquette top 10 after beating Providence?
Va tech lost
Florida state lost
Texas tech losing
Auburn 1vote ahead last poll...
Lots of possibilities!
Duke, Kansas, Virginia, Gonzaga, Michigan, Michigan State aren't going anywhere. OK, Duke's injuries could drop them. None of the others are likely to lose very many. Marquette could go undefeated the rest of the way and not crack the top 6. Or pass Wisconsin in the NET.
If we had 1 Big East loss and had a 22 game winning streak going into the NCAA Tournament I would bet every penny and asset I own that we would be ranked in the top 6 in the polls.
If we had 1 Big East loss and had a 22 game winning streak going into the NCAA Tournament I would bet every penny and asset I own that we would be ranked in the top 6 in the polls.
I am not sure that UM or MSU loses to anybody but each other the rest of the way. Gonzaga isn't going to lose. UVA is only going to lose 1 or 2. Kansas and Duke are the most vulnerable, due to their injuries. If, however, they were to play out the rest of the regular season with only 2-3 more losses each, I do not believe that MU on a 22 game winning streak passes them. Mostly due to league perception and name recognition. I hope that we get to find out whether my prediction is right. I doubt it, but it is a nice dream.
At least two would lose in the conference tournaments. Duke & UVa play each other twice before then, same for Michigan & MSU.Ifwhen we're 17-1 and win the BET, we are absolutely in the top-6 of the polls come Selection Sunday.
Again, I hope we get to find out.
I predicted 22-24 wins, top 3 in the Big East. For argument's sake, suppose I was right and Marquette gets to 24 wins (pre-BEast tourney) which means a 13-5 conference record. IMO, that will translate to a 4-5 seed. Primarily because of things previously discussed elsewhere about the NET and the perception that the Big East is down this year.
I predicted 22-24 wins, top 3 in the Big East. For argument's sake, suppose I was right and Marquette gets to 24 wins (pre-BEast tourney) which means a 13-5 conference record. IMO, that will translate to a 4-5 seed. Primarily because of things previously discussed elsewhere about the NET and the perception that the Big East is down this year.
I think that'll be a 3 seed as long as we don't lose our first BET game.
Using the T Rank teamcast tool, Marquette would be need 25 wins to be a 4 seed. That does not take into account conference tourney results.
20 wins projects to a 9 seed. So each win is worth roughly one seed line.
Duke, Kansas, Virginia, Gonzaga, Michigan, Michigan State aren't going anywhere. OK, Duke's injuries could drop them. None of the others are likely to lose very many. Marquette could go undefeated the rest of the way and not crack the top 6. Or pass Wisconsin in the NET.Disagree on that one
Disagree on that oneI don't think we will win out. Have stated that repeatedly.
Winning about 13 straight to 28-3 would definitely put them in top 6
O also disagree that they would win out anyway.
That thing is kind of screwy. Just for argument sake I had Wisconsin finishing with a 21-10 record and they gave them a 3 seed. I don't know how much stock I would put in that right now.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25379665/college-basketball-power-rankings (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25379665/college-basketball-power-rankings)
ESPN hates the Big East so much, they gave us an extra loss.
15. Marquette Golden Eagles (14-4)
Previous ranking: 16
This week: Beat Georgetown 74-71 on Tuesday, vs. Providence (noon ET Sunday, CBSSN)
Markus Howard played just three minutes against Georgetown on Tuesday before departing with back spasms, but the Golden Eagles came back to beat the Hoyas behind 31 points from Sam Hauser and some clutch late defense. Howard's health is obviously paramount moving forward. Coach Steve Wojciechowski said after the game that he was "not sure how serious it is."
The fix must be in for Sunday.
Gonna lose so badly that they take away a win too.
#1 Duke lost to 'cuse earlier this week
#2 Michigan lost at Bucky
#3 Tenn is behind with 5 to go (as I write)
#4 Virginia plays Duke tonight.
It is possible that all of the top 4 teams will lose this week.
If so, does #5 Gonzaga move to #1?
Possible but I think in that situation Duke stays #1. Voters forgive them for the loss because of injuries and gives them credit for the big win over Virginia.
Honestly, I don't think Gonzaga moves past Michigan.
I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Michigan rarely wins against Wisconsin, particularly at the Kohl. I thought this year would be different. Oops.
#3 Tenn pulls it out. So ...
#1 Duke lost to 'cuse earlier this week
#2 Michigan lost at Bucky
#3 Tenn barely wins
Current #1 Duke plays #4 Virginia tonight.
If Duke wins tonight, is Duke still number 1 next week or is Tenn #1?
But unless Baylor overcomes their current double digit deficit to beat Texas Tech
I was going to say how awful that loss Kansas suffered was and how they should fall out of the top 10, but then I looked at the NET rankings and saw WVU (100) was only 5 spots lower than GTOWN. Yikes, that would have been a bad loss for our guys. Glad they pulled that one out.
If Duke wins, Tennessee will be #1. If Virginia wins, Virginia will be #1. If Duke loses I think they fall behind Gonzaga, if they win, I don't think Gonzaga moves up despite everyone in front of them losing.
The interesting stretch will be #7 to #16.
#7 Kansas loses to a .500 West Virginia Team
#8 Texas Tech loses at home to unranked Iowa State
#9 Virginia Tech gets the pants beat off them by #4 Virginia
#10 Nevada beats a sub .500 Boise State team on a last second shot
#11 Florida State loses by double digits to a bad Pitt team
#12 Kentucky took care of business, will probably move to #7 or 8
#13 North Carolina had okay games against two meh ACC teams
#14 Auburn loses at home to #12 Kentucky
#15 Marquette at best beats two BEast bottom dwellers
#16 Buffalo beat two MAC teams
Do you have a 4 loss North Carolina team above 2 loss teams like Texas Tech and Virginia Tech? Do you actually move Nevada up after that embarrassing win? How much do you punish Kansas?
If Marquette wins tomorrow, I think moving up to #13 is pretty much a guarantee. But unless Baylor overcomes their current double digit deficit to beat Texas Tech, I just don't see them moving up any further. I could see Kansas, Virginia Tech and Texas Tech both staying in the top 10 even with their losses.
Nevada down at half to Air Force...they certainly haven't looked like a top 10 team this week.
I’d say:
7. Kentucky
8. UNC
9. Kansas
10. Nevada (unless they lose to AF in which case they drop down to 20-25 range)
11. VT
12. MU
13. Buffalo
14. Auburn
15. Texas Tech
16. FSU
And they're going to end up with a 20 point win
Granted I’ve only seen them play twice but color me unimpressed. Am I way off by thinking they look like a 5 seed?
They’d be a bubble team (if that) in any major conference imo. Played a total of zero high major opponents outside of some pac12 teams. I also think they backed out on their home and home deal to play at Rhode Island this year (although I’m not 100% sure on the circumstances there).
I’d be happy if MU drew them as a potential second round opponent in the NCAA. I think they’re way overrated. Although, they could still make a run in the tournament because it is kind of a crapshoot.
Calling them a bubble team is ridiculous. I agree they aren't a top 10 team, but other than the anomaly in Albuquerque , they've handled their business. Funnily almost their entire non conference schedule is teams between 100-120 in the NET ratings. They demolished a pretty solid Utah St team and mostly coast. Id say they are a top 25 team based on both results and the eye test.
Caleb Martin is an a probable AA, Jordan Caroline is very good, Cody Martin is solid. They will be around a 5 or so, and thats fair. They don't have a ton of depth and really only go 7 deep, but their top 5 is very good. And Mussleman is a great coach.
Calling them a bubble team is ridiculous.
Number 11 Florida State down by 7 with a minute and a half left to of they may be dropping quite a bit
They're only down for now with 52 seconds maybe I spoke too soon
I think Scoop pays more attention to this than some of the guys filling out the poll.
How do we petition the Associated Press to give scoop a ballot?
A MU Scoop letter writing campaign perhaps?
Rothstein has us at 11.
Anybody here think its better that we stay a bit lower on the ap radar but keep winning?
Top ten puts an even bigger target on us and teams lick their chops a lot more coming to play ? Im good with top 12 to 15 as long as we have no bad losses or keep winning.
Anybody here think its better that we stay a bit lower on the ap radar but keep winning?
Top ten puts an even bigger target on us and teams lick their chops a lot more coming to play ? Im good with top 12 to 15 as long as we have no bad losses or keep winning.
Anybody here think its better that we stay a bit lower on the ap radar but keep winning?
Top ten puts an even bigger target on us and teams lick their chops a lot more coming to play ? Im good with top 12 to 15 as long as we have no bad losses or keep winning.
Yeah curious ballot from Davis......
https://twitter.com/sethdavishoops/status/1087196218327891968?s=21
That ballot is a joke. Wisky at 15?
That ballot is a joke. Wisky at 15?
I'm thinking 12. I don't think we did enough to jump North Carolina (were only 10 points behind them last week). I also don't think Virginia Tech gets punished for losing to Virginia, they may not even move down.
That ballot is a joke. Wisky at 15?
Doesn’t the poll usually come out at 11?
Released an article before the actual poll. No mention of MU but Tennessee is number one and Louisville is in.
Biggest climb was Nova moving up four spots so we know MU had to move less than that.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/tennessee-moves-no-1-ap-top-25-duke-drops-no-2
Based on the biggest movers going up 4 spots, I have to assume MU at 12. I think it stated Auburn was 14.
Cmon scoop, using our collective brain power, we should be able to figure out this logic puzzle.(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScholarlyHelpfulEnglishpointer-size_restricted.gif)
Released an article before the actual poll. No mention of MU but Tennessee is number one and Louisville is in.
Biggest climb was Nova moving up four spots so we know MU had to move less than that.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/tennessee-moves-no-1-ap-top-25-duke-drops-no-2
Based on the biggest movers going up 4 spots, I have to assume MU at 12. I think it stated Auburn was 14.
12!
Hope that doesn't mean we beat ourselves this week.
I guess the reason the AP doesn't hold voters accountable for some of their awful ballots is because they don't hold themselves accountable....how have they not posted this yet?
Also Maryland jumped from 19 to 13 so whoever said Nova had the biggest jump of 4 doesn't have a great grasp on math
Was skimming the article and it said that was the biggest jump. Must have misread.
They gotta be pissed over at Buckyville. ;D
No I thought I read that too. Poking fun at the AP folks, not you ;D
Still unranked by Newell but that isn't surprising because he uses KenPom rather than basketball knowledge
Ladies have highest ranking in school history at number #10!
This is a really special year
Ladies have highest ranking in school history at number #10!
And doing it lately without Blockton who has been out with injury, I think?
North Carolina just dropped a bill on Buzz.Beats having Rick drop a duece on ya....
Most of this poll stuff is utter nonsense in terms of where we're seeded and how we're treated by the NCAA.I poked my head here today for the first time in a good while, did some quick reading and came upon dgies9156’s declaration: “The rebuild of our program following the absurd and bizarre ‘Last Days of the Hillbilly’ is largely complete. Coach Wojo has our dudes playing defense and the team is well-balanced and fits with what both the Coach and the University want of it.”
That said, I'm absolutely delighted the guys are getting some well-deserved recognition. The rebuild of our program following the absurd and bizarre "Last Days of the Hillbilly" is largely complete. Coach Wojo has our dudes playing defense and the team is well-balanced and fits with what both the Coach and the University want of it.
Not yet are we among the elite of college basketball. But we're showing that we are moving in that direction and we're closing. The challenge now is to play as if we are a truly elite team.
I poked my head here today for the first time in a good while, did some quick reading and came upon dgies9156’s declaration: “The rebuild of our program following the absurd and bizarre ‘Last Days of the Hillbilly’ is largely complete. Coach Wojo has our dudes playing defense and the team is well-balanced and fits with what both the Coach and the University want of it.”
This dgies9156 then proclaimed while we are not yet “among the elite of college basketball,” we are “moving in that direction” and “the challenge now is to play as if we are a truly elite team.”
Hillbilly? Dudes? Rebuild? Elite?
Some strong play and exciting, fun wins mean the “rebuild” is “largely complete” and we are nearing the level of “elite,” whatever that really means?
I did not know we needed a “rebuild” and, thus, had not known that over a matter of weeks this season, we have gone from “rebuilding” to “almost elite.”
The smartest people I have known have always emphasized the importance of avoiding extremes and keeping proper perspective.
We are both the best and worst team in the world.
I poked my head here today for the first time in a good while, did some quick reading and came upon dgies9156’s declaration: “The rebuild of our program following the absurd and bizarre ‘Last Days of the Hillbilly’ is largely complete. Coach Wojo has our dudes playing defense and the team is well-balanced and fits with what both the Coach and the University want of it.”
This dgies9156 then proclaimed while we are not yet “among the elite of college basketball,” we are “moving in that direction” and “the challenge now is to play as if we are a truly elite team.”
Hillbilly? Dudes? Rebuild? Elite?
Some strong play and exciting, fun wins mean the “rebuild” is “largely complete” and we are nearing the level of “elite,” whatever that really means?
I did not know we needed a “rebuild” and, thus, had not known that over a matter of weeks this season, we have gone from “rebuilding” to “almost elite.”
The smartest people I have known have always emphasized the importance of avoiding extremes and keeping proper perspective.
Avenue, here's my point. Five years ago, this program was in trouble again. When the Hillbilly, Buzz Williams, left us, the cupboard was bare. The rebuild was bringing in a new coach, implementing a new system (Coach Wojo's) and adopting Coach Wojo's philosophy about the type of student athlete we want.I think elite is conferred upon programs with consistent success in the Tournament. We've made one appearance in 6 years.
As to absurd and bizzare, we were on the front page of the Chicago Tribune for the wrong reason. Our point guard (Vander Blue) left us under apparently less than ideal circumstances and there are more than a few stories about disagreements between the Athletic Director and the Head Coach.
Wojo took five years and he's got us ranked 12th in the nation. While I repeat that what matters is the NCAA, I'm delighted we're back to a point where we were before the problems started. We're ranked, we have a good core nucleus and our guys (dudes in the vernacular) are playing defense.
A 12th ranking does not make us an elite team. It makes us a very good team with strong potential. If we sustain it and go deep in the tournament, then we will be close to eliteness. During the McGuire era, when some of us were at Marquette, we were truly elite. We're not quite there.... yet.
Now, what's so confusing about any of this?
I think elite is conferred upon programs with consistent success in the Tournament. We've made one appearance in 6 years.
Don't get me wrong, I am ecstatic with the direction of this program under Wojo and enjoying every second of this season, but let's not even think elite until we make three Sweet 16s in a row with an Elite 8 mixed in there. Buzz truly did have us on the cusp of elite.
We are both the best and worst team in the world.
I think elite is conferred upon programs with consistent success in the Tournament. We've made one appearance in 6 years.
Don't get me wrong, I am ecstatic with the direction of this program under Wojo and enjoying every second of this season, but let's not even think elite until we make three Sweet 16s in a row with an Elite 8 mixed in there. Buzz truly did have us on the cusp of elite.
They probably could have had legitimate final four aspirations if Tori McCoy was healthy.
Anybody have an update on her? Haven’t seen anything recently, hopefully she gets the transplant she needs.
Great to be at 12, but it is going to be tough to creep up from here. Every team but Nevada (18) in front of us in Kenpom top 11. I think we'll need to make the computers love us a bit more to crack the top ten.
Great to be at 12, but it is going to be tough to creep up from here. Every team but Nevada (18) in front of us in Kenpom top 11. I think we'll need to make the computers love us a bit more to crack the top ten.
If we win both our games, we will move past Virginia Tech and whoever loses the KU/UK match-up. Just the nature of the polls, most look at their rankings from last week and then move down teams who lost and up teams that won.I think we would move past Kansas but not UK
I haven't heard anything recently. As far as I know, she is still waiting on a kidney transplant. I see her on the bench for some games and figure when she's not there she's either getting dialysis or recovering from it.
As far as doing it all without Blockton, that is true for most of the BE season but Blockton was able to play for all the non-conference games. Blockton played 8 minutes in their first BE game before hurting her ankle. She then missed the next 5 games and just returned for the last game for limited minutes as a poster stated. Sophomore Selena Lott really blossomed when put in the starting lineup in Blockton's absence. And I must say the team did much better during her absence than I thought they would. MU is 7-0 in the BE and plays at second place Butler (6-1) on Sunday (after playing at Xavier Friday who is probably the worst team in the league) - every other BE team has at least 3 losses already. And Natisha Hiedeman is positioning herself quite well to keep the BE POY with Marquette since Blockton has missed quite a bit of time - Hiedeman is averaging 24 points in BE games more than 5 points ahead of the next highest BE player.
And they set another program record with the release of the Coaches' Poll on Tuesday moving up to a program best 9th in that poll.
Great to be at 12, but it is going to be tough to creep up from here. Every team but Nevada (18) in front of us in Kenpom top 11. I think we'll need to make the computers love us a bit more to crack the top ten.
Great to be at 12, but it is going to be tough to creep up from here. Every team but Nevada (18) in front of us in Kenpom top 11. I think we'll need to make the computers love us a bit more to crack the top ten.
What does the future hold for this team, MU Fan? I know they lose a lot, but have a couple of kids like Lott coming back. How do things look next year?
Only Virginia tech has lost above us so far right?
Only Virginia tech has lost above us so far right?
10
Yep. Only other possibility is 11 if they decide to keep the loser of KU/UK ahead of us. Could see some blue blood privilege keeping either of them above us. A lot of teams behind us lost so we should put a nice little cushion behind us.
I would love to pass the Buzzard.
Apparently, there have been some rumors of their AD messing with Buzz's happy. Weird, wonder where I have heard that before.
Seems to me that Buzz is setting himself up perfectly for the Texas job if Shaka gets canned, and Shaka is in thin ice
How dumb can Texas be? Barnes went to 17 straight NCAA tournaments and then was canned the one year he missed. Also, we need to be thankful for Shaka saying no. Love the guy we got.
In defense of Texas, he did lose to a lower seed in 9 of those 17 years, and has a NCAA record below .500. I don't think it was the right move, and I think Shaka is a downgrade, but it wasn't the most outrageous separation out there. To a lot of people, tourney record is all that matters.
Buzz da UCLA wood be a literal remake of da Beverly Hillbillies, aina?Ellie Mae was the essence of country perfection.
Can you elaborate? Genuinely curious?
Also, I never really heard what happened with buzz and MU. Did he quit, was he forced out?
Can you elaborate? Genuinely curious?
Also, I never really heard what happened with buzz and MU. Did he quit, was he forced out?
Chicos will tell the full story someday, aina?
Buzz is changing his look......
He has something in mind......
You laugh at Buzz at UCLA......Can you imagine how good he would be.....
My prediction.....Buzz will be the highest paid Head coach at some point in the next 5 years....
As for our rank......No change......
MU Men and Women #10 ! ! ! 8-)
** VT #10, Kansas #9 and MSU #6 Lost this week
Nothing official. But people here have been mentioning Texas, I was thinking more along the lines of TAMU.
Down year this year, could potentially be in the market for a new coach. If you see a bunch of Buzz’s Bunch stuff coming out, or one of his cronies in the media starting to mention things, well when there’s smoke...
He took the “Depaul of the ACC” and turned them into a top 10 team.
I think we get up to 10, but don't think we'll pass MSU. Honestly, I don't think they should even drop from 6. They are clearly better than Nevada at 7.
You wouldn’t drop MSU after 2 losses this week?
Buzz is changing his look......
He has something in mind......
You laugh at Buzz at UCLA......Can you imagine how good he would be.....
My prediction.....Buzz will be the highest paid Head coach at some point in the next 5 years....
As for our rank......No change......
Buzz is changing his look......Your Buzz prediction is nuts and UCLA really isn’t a great job or program any more.
He has something in mind......
You laugh at Buzz at UCLA......Can you imagine how good he would be.....
My prediction.....Buzz will be the highest paid Head coach at some point in the next 5 years....
As for our rank......No change......
Your Buzz prediction is nuts and UCLA really isn’t a great job or program any more.
I never said Buzz to UCLA.....
I said Buzz would be ultra successful there.....if he chose that gig.....
My prediction is that Buzz will parlay VTech into the highest pay in college Bball......And that will be a blue blood or quasi blue blood with very deep $$$$ pockets......
As we all know......Buzz is never about the money.......
I never said Buzz to UCLA.....I know, your prediction of him being the highest paid coach is nuts. And I dont necessarily agree that Buzz would do great at UCLA.
I said Buzz would be ultra successful there.....if he chose that gig.....
My prediction is that Buzz will parlay VTech into the highest pay in college Bball......And that will be a blue blood or quasi blue blood with very deep $$$$ pockets......
As we all know......Buzz is never about the money.......
I never said Buzz to UCLA.....Buzz is pretty structured in his approach to things. I think he will follow the same path he did at MU. First he will extract the most he can from VPI while he is doing well. He will stay alert to opportunities and then will bail for a 6 year deal somewhere, along the lines of what Crean got from Georgia or Holtman Ohio State. I think he will want to stay in a conference where it is easier to recruit though.
I said Buzz would be ultra successful there.....if he chose that gig.....
My prediction is that Buzz will parlay VTech into the highest pay in college Bball......And that will be a blue blood or quasi blue blood with very deep $$$$ pockets......
As we all know......Buzz is never about the money.......
So....what are we ranked on Monday??? Or should we talk about Buzz some more.
SI Top 25 and 1 has MU staying at 11.
https://www.cbssports.com//college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-kansas-falls-to-no-10-in-top-25-and-1-after-kentucky-loss/ (https://www.cbssports.com//college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-kansas-falls-to-no-10-in-top-25-and-1-after-kentucky-loss/)
Frustrating, if KU has won then we'd probably have moved ahead of UK but people will look at the head to head and not put us over KU
Brian Rauff also 9
I wonder how our very own TAMU Eagle feels about this...
I don't see any way we don't pass Virginia Tech. Maybe the voters keep Kansas above us but I'm not convinced.
I don't see any way we don't pass Virginia Tech. Maybe the voters keep Kansas above us but I'm not convinced.
You very well might be right about Kansas, TAMU, but if I were a voter, I would have a tough time putting Marquette ahead of a team it lost to on a neutral court -- especially when that team has better wins than we do and "better losses" than we do. Then again, I probably just put more thought into it than many voters will. So never mind!
Does anyone actually trust the voters to do the research and come to the conclusion that MU should be behind KU because of one game that occurred in November? Because I certainly don't. They look at who lost and drop the a couple spots, and then look who won and move them up a spot or two. We may not pass KU, but I really doubt that it'll be because of a result in the 5th game of the season.
Carino has us at 12...Nova at 11I watched Nova dismantle Seton Hall yesterday. Not sure he's wrong. They look really good of late.
I don't see any way we don't pass Virginia Tech. Maybe the voters keep Kansas above us but I'm not convinced.
Sordlett 11 (17)
DeCock 11 (12)
Bozich 14 (18)
J Vitale 12 (15)
Couch 9 (14)
KU has better wins, but we do have better losses. I think one other factor is they beat us on a neutral with Udoka Azubuike, who's done for the season. They are 7-4 without him this year. Pretty easy for even a rational voter to see that his loss makes a big difference.
Sordlett 11 (17)
DeCock 11 (12)
Bozich 14 (18)
J Vitale 12 (15)
Couch 9 (14)
Excellent. If the guys who had us in the high-teens are dropping us that much, even if the guys who have us around 12 keep us the same we should pick up a ton of votes.
Buzz makes $2.75M now. Coach K and Cal are in the $8M range. You really think he'll be anywhere near there? And what blue blood is going to hire him?
Does Buzz even want a blue blood or just to return to Texas?
I think Buzz wants the adulation of a new fan base every 4-6 years until he can create an internal scenario where he is not being respected/loved/paid appropriately. I'm not so sure Texas knocks that chip off of his shoulder.
10 in ap
Legit surprised.
Maybe that doucher Jesse Newell finally decided to do his job and included an 18-3 high major in his top 25.
Maybe that doucher Jesse Newell finally decided to do his job and included an 18-3 high major in his top 25.
Barely. He released his last night, and has us at 25.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jesse-newell
Barely. He released his last night, and has us at 25.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jesse-newell
In what universe do you rank this marquette team at 25?? Wisconsin and buffalo ahead of us as well? Absolutely bizarre. Zero sense
Nebraska too. Lost 3 in a row and 5/7, and just lost Copeland, arguably their best overall player, for the season.
Barely. He released his last night, and has us at 25.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jesse-newell
So his Dog does the ranking.
AP # 10! Womens’s too in top 10!
10 is fantastic...and we can say polls are meaningless but you know who pays attention to them?? HS kids(recruits). The key is not just being #10...now, for years to come it's finding them there on a regular basis...that is one step towards becoming elite again.
Agreed now when Wojo steps into the living room of a top 100 recruit he no longer has to sell them a vision despite a lackluster season he can sell them on this season and a vision of us doing even better things going forward! Seashells and balloons!!
But are road losses at AZ State, Iowa State, WV and Kentucky really "worse" than road losses at Indiana and St. John's, especially when combined with the fact that Kansas beat us on a neutral court?
I asked Jesse Newell about having Nebraska at 20. His response:
@jessenewell
Replying to @TallTitan34
Predictive numbers still love them, and part of the reason for the recent struggles has been a brutal Big Ten schedule. But yeah ... it's been rough lately for them.
I've said it a lot in the recruiting thread, but this. Wojo and crew has done a great job recruiting without on the court success. It will be a lot of fun to see what the staff can do with this sort of success.
Agreed now when Wojo steps into the living room of a top 100 recruit he no longer has to sell them a vision despite a lackluster season he can sell them on this season and a vision of us doing even better things going forward! Seashells and balloons!!
I asked Jesse Newell about having Nebraska at 20. His response:
@jessenewell
Replying to @TallTitan34
Predictive numbers still love them, and part of the reason for the recent struggles has been a brutal Big Ten schedule. But yeah ... it's been rough lately for them.
Top 10 appearance marks the 164th time MU has appeared in the top 10 in the AP poll, which is 19th best in NCAA history. Notre Dame is 18th, with 166 top ten appearances.
135 of those 164 appearances happened from 1970 to 1979.
Curious as to where you found this info? Seems like a fun thing to play around with
http://www.collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/ap/teams/summary.cfm?teamid=100
Top 10 appearance marks the 164th time MU has appeared in the top 10 in the AP poll, which is 19th best in NCAA history. Notre Dame is 18th, with 166 top ten appearances.
135 of those 164 appearances happened from 1970 to 1979.
Wow, beat out Kansas by a single vote.
Top 10 appearance marks the 164th time MU has appeared in the top 10 in the AP poll, which is 19th best in NCAA history. Notre Dame is 18th, with 166 top ten appearances.
135 of those 164 appearances happened from 1970 to 1979.
At this point other than bragging rights, the rankings really don't matter too much. What our guys need to continue to play for is a BEast Championship and a highly seeded and hopefully 'local' pod in the NCAA. That's the best way to make a deep March run, something they absolutely look capable of.
Hmm, so I guess that means those of us jazzed by the top 10 can thank that one tool who finally put us on his ballot at 25.
I thought about this during the Xavier game. The rankings have another side effect that is valuable. In every game, the competition is pumped to play a high ranked team, and we get their best game. It is great training for the tournament! Every game we play it’s like a tournament game. Toughens up the guys, and gets them used to playing under pressure! Almost as important as the PR value!
Only one point seperated us and Kansas on Monday. If we keep winning, it will be a lot more votes next week. Kansas loses by double digits at 11-9 Texas
We did what we needed to this week and Kansas has already lost so no moving down for us this week. All the teams above us have won so far, 7-0.
Best chance to move up is if Louisville can take out North Carolina at the Yum. The rest of the games the top 10 team will likely be favored. Maybe Florida can knock off Kentucky at home.
Michigan State lost Joshua Langford for the season. That's a huge blow and may result in them dropping out of the top 10 eventually.
They’ve been without him since late December.
I think it’s more a blow to their title chances than staying in the top 10. They’ve clocked a lot of BIg10 teams without him
Just announced he's done for the season, had thought he would be able to come back. They've done well so far but I think their toughest games are yet to come. Two games against Michigan plus a road game at Wisconsin. If we keep winning, could mean we pass them.
The good news is that we are done playing for the week and added a W and no Ls. Lots of opportunities for the teams ahead of us to lose.
I'm comfortable hanging out around 10 for another week. We'll have our chance to make a major statement next week.
Patience FFS, Khaleesi!
I am just saying that for the next 4 days we have nowhere to go but up! ;D
I am just saying that for the next 4 days we have nowhere to go but up! ;D
As noted in another thread, we have won 16 of 7 for the first time in 40 years. This got me thinking ...
If we started the season 16 - 1 and then went 3 - 2 to get to 19-3, playing exactly the same teams ...
My guess is we would have been ranked between #3 and #1 by game 17 and would be ranked between #5 and #8 after a 3 - 2 stretch with losses to KU and IU.
Do you agree? Does the sequence of winning matter for rankings as much as I suggest?
As noted in another thread, we have won 16 of 7 for the first time in 40 years. This got me thinking ...
If we started the season 16 - 1 and then went 3 - 2 to get to 19-3, playing exactly the same teams ...
My guess is we would have been ranked between #3 and #1 by game 17 and would be ranked between #5 and #8 after a 3 - 2 stretch with losses to KU and IU.
Do you agree? Does the sequence of winning matter for rankings as much as I suggest?
Sounds like VT might be without Justin Robinson for a while.
We passed them but it still could pay dividends. Keep them behind us, drop their seed, give UL a better chance to beat them.
Hell, winning at NC State without him won't be a walk in the park eitherYep, look no further than the Wolfpack’s last game against UVA.
#5 Michigan loses to RV Iowa.will they fall out of top 10. I don’t think so
will they fall out of top 10. I don’t think so
As noted in another thread, we have won 16 of 7 for the first time in 40 years. This got me thinking.....
Let's go, Fighting Hookers of Louisville. It's silly but I want that single digit next to our name for NMD. FOX game, another Top-15 team in our house, lot's of eyes. Pick up two wins next week and we may find ourselves in uncharted territory. Yes, I'm getting way ahead of myself here.
I'm just rooting for Nova to get up to #12 by the time our game happens...
Let's go, Fighting Hookers of Louisville. It's silly but I want that single digit next to our name for NMD. FOX game, another Top-15 team in our house, lot's of eyes. Pick up two wins next week and we may find ourselves in uncharted territory. Yes, I'm getting way ahead of myself here.
Holy crap. 4:10 left and VT is up 44-22.
Big win for Indiana at MSU, helps our loss vs them look a little better and it also might help us move up in the rankings. With MSU and Michigan losing we should pass one or both since they were #5 and #6. I think we’re #8 or #9.
I think Kansas jumps us this week.
Also, Michigan State lost twice this week. Purdue also beat them. Decent chance we pass them.
Also, Michigan State lost twice this week. Purdue also beat them. Decent chance we pass them.
They lost Sunday so just once this week
Odds are MU & Villanova will hold right around they are rank right now. Would lead to the highest rank match up in Milwaukee since 3/3/12 when Crowder scored 26 points with 14 rebounds and Johnson-Odom added 17 points in the duo's final home appearance as seniors, helping Marquette (No. 7 ESPN/USA Today, No. 8 AP) beat Georgetown (No. 12 ESPN/USA Today, No. 11 AP) 83-69
Odds are MU & Villanova will hold right around they are rank right now. Would lead to the highest rank match up in Milwaukee since 3/3/12 when Crowder scored 26 points with 14 rebounds and Johnson-Odom added 17 points in the duo's final home appearance as seniors, helping Marquette (No. 7 ESPN/USA Today, No. 8 AP) beat Georgetown (No. 12 ESPN/USA Today, No. 11 AP) 83-69
Seth Davis has us at 11 and Purdue at 8!
Newell release his yet?
Also, Michigan State lost twice this week. Purdue also beat them. Decent chance we pass them.True in the calendar sense. False in the rankings sense. Lost once since the last rankings were released.
I’m sure the answer’s somewhere in these 82 pages but what time are they released?
Jesse Newell bumped us up to 22
The margin between Marquette at 10 and Michigan St at 9 is actually very small, roughly 20 votes. I could see us leapfrogging them with a win over Nova.
Unranked Auburn at 13, Wisky at 12, Marquette behind a Maryland team that’s lost 3 of 4 and Buffalo who just lost again. Has a mediocre Baylor team at 25. This dude is such a joke. Outdoes himself every week
He pretty much copy and pastes KenPom and then only moves teams a few spots from there.
I mean, over two weeks, Michigan State lost twice and lost 300 votes. I would expect about the same if we lost twice. They didn't move far down in the rankings because they had over a 200 point lead on 7th place when they were in 6th in Week 12. For comparisons sake, we would drop to 15th if we lost the same amount of votes that Michigan State did.
Resumes aside, MSU wins the eye test as well. That is a good team. And KenPom has them at Top 10 in both offense and defense. Most years those years those types of teams are minimum Elite 8.
I think we would be all happy with an Elite 8 result this year. That may be MSU's floor.
Well they looked pretty garbage against Indiana the other night.
MSU and/or Michigan better get their sh1t together in a hurry before that rat ba$r-tard Madison team sneaks up and bites them in the a$$. It would really suck for the hated vermin to win that conference after the way they started.Who really cares? Why does it matter
Who really cares? Why does it matter
With Langford officially done now. A key for MSU will be Ward.Defenses can go after him harder
He had been great this year but the last two games have been brutal for the most part. Inefficient FG% and awful free throw shooting. It’s probably just a couple off games, but they need him back to form.
Our Women Warriors are up to #8.
Our Women Warriors are up to #8.
I honestly thought the women were topped out at 10, and it seems weird that they leap frogged 1-loss NC State. But I'll take it.
Better chance at a 2-seed? Men or women?
I honestly thought the women were topped out at 10, and it seems weird that they leap frogged 1-loss NC State. But I'll take it.
Better chance at a 2-seed? Men or women?
Would have been nice to see ISU lose tonight, Shayok playing at a really high level.
Shayok was the one transfer I really wanted that offseason.
As much as I appreciate what Sacar brings, it would be incredible if we had Shayok in that spot, with Sacar available to back up him and Sam.
Not sure if Wojo had any communication with Shayok at all, though, and I'm plenty happy with our team. We're better than Iowa State!
Having him sit a year to play a year probably wasn't in the cards. Joey being able to come in a semester early was really, really nice for this team.
I say 10. Michigan State and Kansas both lost this week. The Nova win is good enough to negate a one point loss. Holding steady.
Can someone compile a list of how teams 9-16 did this week? I feel like everyone, but Houston, went 1-1. I would, but it seems like a lot of work haha!
Not an answer to your request but, Houston plays no. 25 Cincinnati tomorrow (albeit at home), very lose-able game, and would almost ensure that we would stay top 10 with the right result there.
Can someone compile a list of how teams 9-16 did this week? I feel like everyone, but Houston, went 1-1. I would, but it seems like a lot of work haha!
9. Michigan State: @ILL (L) & MINN (W)
10. Marquette: SJU (L) & NOVA (W)
11. Virginia Tech: LOU (L) & @CLEM (L)
12. Houston: @UCF (W) & CIN (?)
13. Kansas: @KSU (L) & OKST (W)
14. Villanova: CREI (W) & @MU (L)
15. Purdue: NEB (W)
16. Louisville: @VT (W) & @FSU (L)
Can someone compile a list of how teams 9-16 did this week? I feel like everyone, but Houston, went 1-1. I would, but it seems like a lot of work haha!I link to this. Has what you are asking for every week.
Kelvin Sampson vs. Mick Cronin, gross.
Can games end with no winner?
Yes. Just ask Jim Boeheim
Houston isn’t very good.
Cincinnati would be 5-6 in our league.
Cumberland and a bunch of guys who should be at Grambling based off what I see today
Thank You! This is one example why i HATE things like the NET, kenpom etc..The #'s lie. Does ANYONE REALLY think Houston is the 11th best team in the country?? Absolutely not. They have one loss built on a resume by beating no one and playing in a poor conference. Yet, because of computer #'s here they sit at #11 in the bracket reveal. Bad, bad bad.
Thank You! This is one example why i HATE things like the NET, kenpom etc..The #'s lie. Does ANYONE REALLY think Houston is the 11th best team in the country?? Absolutely not. They have one loss built on a resume by beating no one and playing in a poor conference. Yet, because of computer #'s here they sit at #11 in the bracket reveal. Bad, bad bad.
I'm curious, who outside the top-16 do you think is good? Who was undeservedly overlooked and is so good that they should've been in the initial list?
No idea where to put this, but wow...Northwestern what a choke job.
No idea where to put this, but wow...Northwestern what a choke job.Ya. I saw it. Sort of like the UCLA choke job versus Utah.
Seth Davis has us at 13, down from 11 and one spot behind Villanova.
Wisconsin also jumped 4 spots (now 3 ahead of MU) after beating Minnesota and losing to Michigan. ::)
Rothstein at 12
Thank You! This is one example why i HATE things like the NET, kenpom etc..The #'s lie. Does ANYONE REALLY think Houston is the 11th best team in the country?? Absolutely not. They have one loss built on a resume by beating no one and playing in a poor conference. Yet, because of computer #'s here they sit at #11 in the bracket reveal. Bad, bad bad.
Villanova for sure..I also think Texas Tech is right there. Just don't think Houston and Nevada should be there given the competition they have played. Outside of that, I had a couple issues with the seeds..in no way shape or form do I think Purdue should be #9 and the USA Today writer agrees with me, and I heard other comments about them too. I'm also very iffy on MSU at #8. I mean if you can lose to Indiana at home, and lose to Illinois anywhere, and still be a #2 seed...it seems you are almost exempt from falling any further.
I look at Purdue having ZERO good non conf wins, and MSU losing at home to Indiana and on the road to Illinois, being #8 and #9, and it makes me think nothing MU does the rest of the way will allow them to get to a #2 seed.
11th? Maybe not. Top 20? Yes. They beat a very good LSU team in the non-con and have been pretty dominate against solid (though not great competition). If the season ended today they would have earned that 3 seed.
So you don't like Purdue because they didn't do well in non-con but have done well in conference play, but you don't like Michigan State because they did do well in non-con but have some bad losses in conference play. You are a hard man to please Mr. Guru.
If Marquette, Michigan State, Purdue, and Kansas match records the rest of the way than you are correct that MU will not get a 2 seed. If Marquette can be at least one win better than all of them, then they have a shot and if they are two wins better than they will be a 2 seed. Houston has less room for error because they play worse teams so I think Marquette could match them the rest of the way and pass them.
Look, at the end of the day, all that really matters to me is that MU is in Des Moines, and the Midwest regional..That's why the #2 is so important to me, I think if they get a #2 seed, the committee would HAVE to give them both locations..but as we see right now as a #3 they would be in the East...not ideal.
Wouldn't we rather have the South? Louisville is more than 150 miles closer to Milwaukee.
Either way, the twos will be more placed to balance the seeds in regards to what region they get. A 2 might get us Des Moines, but probably increases our likelihood of being in the East opposite (likely) Duke.
The South is fine too..i care mostly about Des Moines more than anything else and of course avoiding Duke.
Selfishly, I'd prefer Columbia or Jacksonville to Des Moines because I'd be able to go to either site, but I do agree that what matters most to me is avoiding Duke as long as possible. If I had a vote, it would be to be in whatever regional that has Gonzaga as the No. 1 seed.
But I don't have a vote, and I have absolutely no control, so I don't obsess about this stuff. Just want to see our heroes win as many as they can from here on out because ...
1. Winning is more fun than losing.
2. Every win increases the possibility that this already very enjoyable and fun season can be special.
Bring on duke. I'd love to see Zion go up for a dunk and get denied by theoCome on dude, even a clean block would be called a foul every time. And you know this!
Bring on duke. I'd love to see Zion go up for a dunk and get denied by theo
Come on dude, even a clean block would be called a foul every time. And you know this!
Lots of people dropped us hard to the 13-14 range. Somehow MSU and KU are ahead of us on those ballots. And the "selection show Purdue overcorrection" is in full swing.
From Seth Davis in his Athletic article today:
If you are a savvy reader, then you are not confused as to why I have Villanova ranked a spot ahead of Marquette even though the Golden Eagles won their matchup on Saturday. The twofold answer should be obvious: First, Marquette lost at home earlier in the week to St. John’s, giving the Red Storm a season sweep. Second, the win over Villanova was at home and came down to the final possession. For rankings purposes, that’s a wash, at best.
https://theathletic.com/810685/2019/02/11/hoop-thoughts-no-coachspeak-allowed-lets-go-behind-enemy-lines-to-hear-the-truth-on-the-top-teams/ (https://theathletic.com/810685/2019/02/11/hoop-thoughts-no-coachspeak-allowed-lets-go-behind-enemy-lines-to-hear-the-truth-on-the-top-teams/)
So he faults us for losing at home to SJU but all's forgiven with the loss to furman? Idk why these guys just can't admit that it comes down to recent success nova is a household name right now we are not
He's been called out on that and other similar situations (Ex: Purdue ahead of Michigan despite losing to Michigan by 20) and his response is that those games were in the past and he is voting on the team's current state.
He's been called out on that and other similar situations (Ex: Purdue ahead of Michigan despite losing to Michigan by 20) and his response is that those games were in the past and he is voting on the team's current state.
This ranking is good news. Maintain our spot on a one loss week. We are living in a good neighborhood.
Lets get two wins this week.
It is also a good thing Nova is rising. If any of the Big East lower 8 can get a win against them it will help their cause.
Lets get two wins this week.
Nova moves up with the loss. Michigan state drops 2 spots, but Houston moves up 3 and we stay at 10. WTF? Houston moves up 3 on the strength of beating Cincy?
I still think 10 or 11. I don't see the writer having Purdue jump us and everyone behinds us loss other than Houston. I thought Houston would leapfrog us but that we would leapfrog Michigan State. I am less confident about leapfrogging Michigan State based on early voting.
Nova moves up with the loss. Michigan state drops 2 spots, but Houston moves up 3 and we stay at 10. WTF? Houston moves up 3 on the strength of beating Cincy?
Damn, shouldn't have second guessed myself.
Michigan State and Purdue are uncomfortably close and while we are in striking distance of Houston, North Carolina has a sizable gap behind them.
We should be favored in both games this week while Purdue and Michigan State have two tough road games. If we are lucky, we should be able to get some breathing room. If SJU could knock off Nova that would be swell.
Kansas State shot up like a rocket, NR to #18 is impressive. Glad that win keeps getting better with age.
Only 8 teams and 165 votes in the others receiving votes category. Think that's the lowest its been all season, and one of the lowest I've ever seen. Seems like there is a pretty solidified top 26 teams.
Don't like our odds getting two wins since we only have one game this week.
We only have one game this week then eight days until we play again. Really hope we win tomorrow or it is going to be a long eight days.
We only have one game this week then eight days until we play again. Really hope we win tomorrow or it is going to be a long eight days.I'll sharpen my pitchfork and get new batteries for my "Fire Wojo!" sign just in case
Two out of three weekends with no game. What's up with that?
Don't like our odds getting two wins since we only have one game this week.Lol, thanks for pointing out. I am so focused on the one game at a time mentality I haven't even looked at our schedule. I just look at the scoreboard above on Scoop for the next game, to me that is the schedule.
Sick of this damn big name bias. KU can lose all day and only drop one spot a week
Ridiculous.
Don't like our odds getting two wins since we only have one game this week.
Nova moves up with the loss. Michigan state drops 2 spots, but Houston moves up 3 and we stay at 10. WTF? Houston moves up 3 on the strength of beating Cincy?
Sick of this damn big name bias. KU can lose all day and only drop one spot a week
Ridiculous.
I'll sharpen my pitchfork and get new batteries for my "Fire Wojo!" sign just in case
Don't lose to Depaul, fer chrissakes
I hear ya ... But this is not the Depaul of year's past. They are 5 - 6 tie for third. Yes, they are tied with half the league for third at 5-6, but for Depaul, this is one of their best results after 11 conference games in the last decade.
Are you advocating for losing to Depaul?
North Carolina going down!
Kansas pulls it off in OT. Only their second road win of the season
This is a great lesson for you younger folk that fawn all over predictive models and advanced statistics..here's a tip..ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take the more talented team regardless of the #'s say. You can make them say whatever you want them to say..but if you are able to judge talent, and always pick or assume the better team will win.. you won't get it right all the time but you will certainly be right way more than you are wrong..models dont factor in talent.
This is a great lesson for you younger folk that fawn all over predictive models and advanced statistics..here's a tip..ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take the more talented team regardless of the #'s say. You can make them say whatever you want them to say..but if you are able to judge talent, and always pick or assume the better team will win.. you won't get it right all the time but you will certainly be right way more than you are wrong..models dont factor in talent.
I like it. Even though they are only two spots ahead of us, I don't think us beating DePaul (assuming we do) would be enough to pass them. They have a pretty sizeable lead in votes and losing to Virginia even at home likely doesn't cost them that much.
Yes they do. They measure talent and compare the talent between teams.
Again, the model predicted after 40 minutes that the margin would be 1 point. Instead it was 0. That's accurate.
You don't use a service like KenPom to say that "this team will definitely win". You use it to determine a probability. The probability for this one was a coin flip. And it went to overtime, in other words, a coin flip. It was much more accurate than your eye test was on this game. Unless you expect us to believe that "KANSAS WILL WIN PERIOD" meant that you thought that they would need OT to be what you consider an obviously inferior team.
Teams around MU:
Badgers lose to #11 MSU. Wonder how much higher Seth Davis will rank UW after that loss.
#5 UK absolutely robbed against LSU on a last second shot (was offensive goaltending).
No it wasn’t.
Plus they robbed themselves. Idiotic basketball by them late
#5 UK absolutely robbed against LSU on a last second shot (was offensive goaltending).
It was absolutely not offensive goaltending. NCAA Rule 9-17.5 on goaltending specifically states "it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player as long as it has a possibility of entering the basket ." The ball had clearly bounced off the rim away from the basket. Refs got it right, no question.
It was absolutely not offensive goaltending. NCAA Rule 9-17.5 on goaltending specifically states "it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player as long as it has a possibility of entering the basket ." The ball had clearly bounced off the rim away from the basket. Refs got it right, no question.
It was absolutely not offensive goaltending. NCAA Rule 9-17.5 on goaltending specifically states "it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player as long as it has a possibility of entering the basket ." The ball had clearly bounced off the rim away from the basket. Refs got it right, no question.
Looking at what I think is the applicable rule (http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BR19.pdf). It appears clear that it is not "goaltending" because the applicable definition seems to be only a defensive violation (I didn't know that), when the ball is on a downward flight with a possibility of going in. Since this wasn't a defensive player and since the ball wasn't on a downward flight, it couldn't be "goaltending."
But what about "basket interference?" One of definitions of basket interference is "touches the ball while any part of it is within the cylinder that has the ring as its lower base." Nothing in there about possibility of going in. And it honestly looked to me like the ball was in the cylinder when touched.
All of this should be moot, though because there was also defensive goaltending on Kentucky on the initial shot.
What I don't know is if goaltending/basketball interference is reviewable. Could be one of those things where the refs saw the violation but couldn't do anything about it because it was a non-reviewable play.
It is not reviewable. All they could look at was the clock.
Actually, I probably "misspoke." The Kentucky player arguably committed basket interference, not goaltending. On the initial shot, he reached up through the net and rim (https://twitter.com/DarrellBird/status/1095513553442955264/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1095513553442955264&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aseaofblue.com%2F2019%2F2%2F12%2F18222795%2Fuk-wildcats-basketball-kentucky-lsu-tigers-goaltending-ej-montgomery). But looking closer at the rule, it's not clear to me that it's a violation as long as the doesn't touch the ball and the ball is not in the cylinder. It might not have been interference. But someone also slapped the backboard which absolutely did send it shaking. So that also could have been called interference. Lots of potential calls that were not made on that play.
If that's basket interference, then 99% of all putback dunks are basket interference. Watching the replay the ball had no chance of going through. Kentucky fans want to complain because it cost them the game, but did they ever complain when any of their players slammed a ball back in that was clearly not going to score? Of course not.
If that's basket interference, then 99% of all putback dunks are basket interference. Watching the replay the ball had no chance of going through. Kentucky fans want to complain because it cost them the game, but did they ever complain when any of their players slammed a ball back in that was clearly not going to score? Of course not.
Here's the thing though, before the put back on the initial shot a Kentucky defender puts his hand through the hoop and touches the rim as well.
That right there is goaltending, but they weren't gonna call that one in Rupp. Hard to tell if the putback is basket interference just because of the arbitrary rules but it probably evened out at the end.
Bilas said on the radio today, the Kentucky hand through the.net would not be a goaltending because the ball was not.in the cylinder, unless the rim/backboard was wobbling
Bilas said on the radio today, the Kentucky hand through the.net would not be a goaltending because the ball was not.in the cylinder, unless the rim/backboard was wobbling
It's not goaltending. He never touched the ball.
Art. 3. Goaltending
a. Goaltending occurs when a defensive player touches the ball during a
field-goal try and each of the following conditions is met: (Exceptions:
Rule 10-4.1.h)
1. The ball is on its downward flight; and
2. The ball is above the level of the ring and has the possibility, while in
flight, of entering the basket and is not touching the cylinder.
b. It is goaltending to touch the ball outside the cylinder during a free throw,
regardless of whether the free throw is on its upward or downward flight.
c. When the ball contacts the backboard and any part of the ball is above
the rim during a field goal attempt, it is considered to be on its downward
flight. In such a case, it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player
as long as it has a possibility of entering the basket.
It's not basket interference either
2. Basket interference
a. Basket interference occurs when a player:
1. Touches the ball or any part of the basket while the ball is on or within
the basket;
2. Touches the ball while any part of it is within the cylinder that has the
ring as its lower base;
3. Reaches through the basket from below and touches the ball before it
enters the cylinder;
4. Pulls down a movable ring so that it contacts the ball before the ring
returns to its original position, and
5. Causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or within
the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder.
b. The cylinder is the imaginary geometric figure that has the ring as its base
and is formed by the upward extension of that ring.
c. The ball shall be considered to be within the basket when any part of the
ball is below the cylinder and the level of the ring.
d. A player may have a hand legally in contact with the ball, when this
contact continues after the ball enters the cylinder or when, during such
action, the player touches or grabs the basket.
You can put your hand through the basket, you just can't touch the ball or make the basket vibrate while the ball is on or within the cylinder.
Now they may have gotten them on #5. Washington definitely slaps the backboard and the ball seemed to be in the cylinder when that occured. That is basket interference
Did Bilas think it was offensive interference? I did. Ball seemed clearly in the cylinder to me. But I certainly don't blame the refs for not being able to call that in real time, and replay system doesn't allow it to be overturned.yes he did, but he is not in favor of adding more things to review by replay. Something about a social contract that players and coaches know the refs are in charge, are human, and make mistakes
yes he did, but he is not in favor of adding more things to review by replay. Something about a social contract that players and coaches know the refs are in charge, are human, and make mistakes
All in all a good day for Marquette
Michigan and Purdue lost
Kentucky lost
Louisville lost
Whisky lost
Marquette won!
We don’t maybe move up but get closer to teams.
Louisville was gaining.
Question on the goaltending definition, where it says this and all the following need to apply:
the first requirement says "DOWNWARD" trajectory or whatever, so unless that is true even if above the cylinder would you be able to tap the ball in or swat it away (depending on Offense or Defense) if say the ball bounced on the rim and was in the upward trajectory of the bounce even if within the cylinder?
Based on the list of requirements it would see that this would be a legal move because they way it is written all the other conditions are dependent on the first one that says "downward trajectory"?
All in all a good day for Marquette
Michigan and Purdue lost
Kentucky lost
Louisville lost
Whisky lost
Marquette won!
We don’t maybe move up but get closer to teams.
Louisville was gaining.
Yea, but the Bucky loss may result in MSU passing us again. The DePaul win won't move the needle, and winning on the road against a top 25 team could very easily make up the 5 point gap we have. The Mich loss was terrible, but unless they lose to Maryland too I don't think they'll fall past us. We could very easily drop out of the top 10 despite going 1-0 this week. Wake beating UNC would certainly help.
I'd have rather Louisville won.
Thrilled that Wisconsin lost. I hope they lose out ... and get a head start on next season when that Happ-less crew will lose A LOT!
I wouldn't expect much movement on the Michigan front. As bad as the loss looks at first glance, it is still a Q1 loss.As far as bracketology goes yea, but for rankings, losing to the team at the bottom of the conference hurts. I guess the point is that unless they drop another one this week, they'll still be ahead of us. Same with UNC, and even if UK loses to Tenn I could still see them staying ahead of us too. Feels kinda unfair that we go 1-0 and could drop, but it would make up for staying put after a 1-1 week. A'int rankings a funny thing.
I'd have rather Louisville won.
Moving on up to the East Side......
Ninth......
Has anybody lost yet or just taking a stab in the dark?
Michigan lost big to a terrible Penn St team
UNC lost to UVA
Not sure we move unless either team has a 2 loss week. It seems highly unlikely that UH or Nevada loses, who are our best shots for big drops with one loss on the week.
Unless Maryland, Wake, or Ohio State win, we'll be 11.
How do you figure we drop after an undefeated week where team ahead of us lost
How do you figure we drop after an undefeated week where team ahead of us lost
Unless Maryland, Wake, or Ohio State win, we'll be 11.
I'm thinking this will be the top 12 tomorrow assuming Nova takes care of business in the second half.
1. Duke
2. Virginia
3. Gonzaga
4. Tennessee
5. Kentucky
6. Nevada
7. Houston
8. Michigan
9. Michigan State
10. North Carolina
11. Marquette
12. Villanova
There will be an opportunity to get back into the top 10 next week with Michigan/Michigan State playing and UNC having to take on Duke. In a perfect world, Michigan loses at Minnesota then beats Michigan State. There's a possibility we could leapfrog both of them.
You may have to adjust nova now
In a perfect world, Michigan loses at Minnesota then beats Michigan State.
I think Marquette will be 10...
Will Michigan state pass us with Ward’s injury?
Seth Davis has us at 13. Down from 12.
Seth Davis has LSU unranked last week. Now has them 10?!?!!!?
Seth Davis has LSU unranked last week. Now has them 10?!?!!!?
Seth Davis has LSU unranked last week. Now has them 10?!?!!!?
I strongly disagree. Let’s see how things shake out today but I’d be shocked if marquette drops.
Kentucky two loss week would definitely, not maybe, drop them below us. Michigan two loss week ditto.
Unc won’t lose but even with a huge win would be neck and neck w MU imo. I can see us slightly behind or even ahead of them. Michigan lost to a putrid team (only 2 conference wins!) so I would guess that even if they win today in a close one they also fall very close to Marquette, either slightly ahead or we nip em by a small amount.
I’d say that even if MSU passes Marquette, which is no guarantee cause we looked good also, that MU sits no lower than 10 again. If I had to guess right now I’d say 8 but I’ll take another shot at it later tonight/tomorrow
To put the margins into perspective, the 200+ points we trailed (8) UNC by was larger than the the margin that (21) Iowa trailed (16) 'Ville. 'Ville went 1-1 (just like UNC), Iowa went 2-0 and 'Ville still has a 100+ point lead on them. We cut the deficit to 142 points behind UNC, and only 59 behind MSU. If UNC loses to Duke, MSU loses to Mich, and we go 2-0 this week, we could very well end up 9 next week, but as I stated earlier, just beating DePaul essentially does nothing in the eyes of the voters.
Unless you knock off a top 5-10 team, margins like that don't disappear in one week.
Every word of this makes sense.
We are closer (point-wise) to No. 7 than we are to No. 12.
Yea, but here's where people that don't understand the system will really not be happy. If we go 2-0 this week, and Kansas goes 2-0 this week, there's a (small IMO) possibility that they pass us (they would most definitely close the gap). We are past the point where just winning automatically move us up, it also depends on what teams around us do.I can guarantee this won't happen.
Yea, but here's where people that don't understand the system will really not be happy. If we go 2-0 this week, and Kansas goes 2-0 this week, there's a (small IMO) possibility that they pass us (they would most definitely close the gap). We are past the point where just winning automatically move us up, it also depends on what teams around us do.
Kansas only plays once this week so I think 2-0 means we're safe from them
11 in coaches poll
10 in the coaches poll. About 50 votes higher than MSU.Correction noted and amended. I Need to get bifocals lol.
10 in coaches poll
i put more cred on coaches poll than a bunch of "journalists"
You maybe wouldn't feel that way if you knew how much effort many of these coaches put into it.
You maybe wouldn't feel that way if you knew how much effort many of these coaches put into it.
still better than the "journalists" ya want a 2nd opinion for a root canal from your a$$ doctor? ;D
still better than the "journalists" ya want a 2nd opinion for a root canal from your a$$ doctor? ;D
Typically nonsensical.Give him a break, 82. A bigly important pol told him journalists are bad, so that's what dribbles out of his pie hole.
Give him a break, 82. A bigly important pol told him journalists are bad, so that's what dribbles out of his pie hole.
Women's team drops to 11.
...and the signature as well.Curious, why don’t you call for a ban when people post right wing points of view? Including yourself?
^^^ ban dis gf individual
PS - most journalists blow. (and former journalists too)
Curious, why don’t you call for a ban when people post right wing points of view? Including yourself?
I don’t know what a “right wing point of view” means to you.Speaking of puke, I almost spewed chunks upon seeing we dropped out of the Top 10.
You blatantly spew political puke often, including in your signature. It’s sickening and you should be put on a long break.
i put more cred on coaches poll than a bunch of "journalists"
Rachel Maddow is a journalist.
I like that dude’s haircut
TSmiths next intelligent post will be his first. If hes a grad an admissions employees job needs to be reevaluated.
do it in the PMs.
I like that dude’s haircutEh, lame. Let's get back on track, people.
Eh, lame. Let's get back on track, people.
^^^ Hypocrite. U not in top 25 bruhAs Michael Scott once said, explain it to me like I'm 5.
I think Nevada may have a tough time at SDSU tonight. They've won 6 of 7 and have been pretty good at home. I'm thinking upset. Go Aztecs.
I think Nevada may have a tough time at SDSU tonight. They've won 6 of 7 and have been pretty good at home. I'm thinking upset. Go Aztecs.
I think Nevada may have a tough time at SDSU tonight. They've won 6 of 7 and have been pretty good at home. I'm thinking upset. Go Aztecs.
I think Nevada may have a tough time at SDSU tonight. They've won 6 of 7 and have been pretty good at home. I'm thinking upset. Go Aztecs.
I like that dude’s haircut
Love it when a guy who cant spel makes fun of others' intelligence!
Nevada deserves to drop at leat 4-5 spots after this one. Zero games against Q1 teams? pff..
[/quote
Brutal game, but 3 mins left. If they lose they deserve to drop more than 5 spots
First time watching Nevada play. Really not a fan of the Martin's. Seem very Devendorish.
Didn’t catch em in last yrs tourney?
They will be the most underrated team going into the dance in history imo.
They may show up with 2 losses, and a 4/5 seed, with multiple nba guys.
They are flashy and brash, easily hateable, but sorry for the 1 seed in their region
Was in a foreign country with little access to any source of watching NCAA games during last year's tournament.
Was in a foreign country with little access to any source of watching NCAA games during last year's tournament.Who doesn't have internet. Where were you Somalia?
Crowd chants overrated the entire game, storms the court anyways.
I've never seen a coach begging for a technical more than Musselman in this first half. Nose to nose with a ref and screaming in his face. How he walked away clean I don't know.
Muss fits the profile of mid major coach to leave for a bigger school this year. He has a great team but lots of players graduate. Been getting a ton of national press.
Could Musselmann be the guy for UCLA?
Didn’t catch em in last yrs tourney?
They will be the most underrated team going into the dance in history imo.
They may show up with 2 losses, and a 4/5 seed, with multiple nba guys.
They are flashy and brash, easily hateable, but sorry for the 1 seed in their region
So happy Nevada lost. Musselman is a bitch, got an entire team if 5th seniors and coming off an E8. Yet he schedules no one!! And plz dont start with they scheduled 2 pac12 teams, they have only sucked for 5-6 years now. Take yr team in the road pkay a big 10 team or a bug 12 team. Ur still gonna win 25 fin games!!!
Your posts are harder to read than 4nevers, and he's doing it intentionally.
And there are a lot of bitches in your world. Seems to be the word of the day for you.
So happy Nevada lost. Musselman is a bitch, got an entire team if 5th seniors and coming off an E8. Yet he schedules no one!! And plz dont start with they scheduled 2 pac12 teams, they have only sucked for 5-6 years now. Take yr team in the road pkay a big 10 team or a bug 12 team. Ur still gonna win 25 fin games!!!
In terms of NET rankings, last night was a pretty good night for us.
Nevada dropped from 11 to 22 with their loss. Their drop also allowed us to move up one spot to 19. I'd expect that they'll drop behind us in the polls assuming we win on Saturday.
Both Georgetown (81 to 71) and Providence (88 to 74) got big bumps from their wins, jumping into the top 75. This is the cutoff for a Q1 road game, so if they both can hang in the top 75, we'll gain at least one Q1 victory with a chance to pick up another on Saturday (or, at worst, only absorb a Q1 loss instead of a second Q2 loss).
Following up on this, we are now tied for the third-most Q1 victories in the country:
Mich St. (NET #8) 10-3
Kansas (15) 9-5
Virginia (2) 8-2
Kentucky (5) 8-3
Marquette (19) 8-3
Miss St. (26) 8-4
Duke (3) 7-2
Purdue (11) 7-6
Wisconsin (12) 7-6
Still have the chance to add Q1 victories @Providence (maybe if they can stick in top 25), @Villanova, @Seton Hall plus any wins against Nova and maybe SJU, Butler, Creighton or Seton Hall in the Big East tournament (all four are close to the top 50 cutoff for neutral court games).
This will be the biggest argument in favor of MU grabbing a 2-seed if they can maintain their success down the stretch.
The NET methodology is most likely to convoluted to explain a couple of easy sentences, but........? How do Bucky and Purdue play only one more Q1 game than Marquette but have 1 less win and 3 more Q1 losses, yet they are ranked 11 and 12 and we are 19 in the NET rankings.
Punctuation, yes.
Spelling, no.
Nice try, troll!
1, they have played 2 more Q1 games. Not 1.
NET doesn't just look at who you beat and where you beat them but also how you beat them. Marquette has squeaked out a lot of close wins and had some blowout losses. Bucky and Purdue on the other hand have some blowout wins and don't get blown out themselves.
Don't worry, NET is just one metric on the resume. The rest of our resume definitely puts us ahead of Bucky and probably slightly ahead of Purdue at this point
Another thing that I think is weighing Marquette down is having 7 Q4 wins. Wisconsin and Purdue have 4 each. But that's just a hunch since the NET formula is unknown.
It's one of the failings of systems like KenPom and NET. NET at least tried to address this by capping the margin of victory at 10 but the efficiency stats still get counted past 10 points. The bigger the blowout, the more likely it is that you were playing efficient basketball.
Theoretically, it shouldn't matter because it's not about who you play but how well you play. I think what's key here is that Purdue and Wisconsin played better against Q4 teams
Avg Margin of Victory against Q4:
Wisconsin: 32.75
Purdue: 30.25
Marquette: 24.86
I don't know how much, but both Purdue and Wisconsin get significant boosts over Marquette because they blew out their cupcakes by more than Marquette did. The UTEP win might hurt our NET numbers more than any of our losses. It's one of the failings of systems like KenPom and NET. NET at least tried to address this by capping the margin of victory at 10 but the efficiency stats still get counted past 10 points. The bigger the blowout, the more likely it is that you were playing efficient basketball.
They should really get rid of the margin (capped or uncapped) altogether. Since margin is baked into efficiency, they are essentially giving bonus points for margin up to 10.
The NET has 5 components. Efficiency is component 2, (capped) scoring margin is component 5. I am talking about component 1: team value index.
This component is an algorithm based on opponent, location, and result. Yes, it is a total mystery what exactly the "opponent" factor is, but this is where I think the quantity of Q4 games matter. Again, since the NET formula and weighting is unknown, it's just my guess. Hopefully this better explains my thought process.
The NET has 5 components. Efficiency is component 2, (capped) scoring margin is component 5. I am talking about component 1: team value index.
This component is an algorithm based on opponent, location, and result. Yes, it is a total mystery what exactly the "opponent" factor is, but this is where I think the quantity of Q4 games matter. Again, since the NET formula and weighting is unknown, it's just my guess. Hopefully this better explains my thought process.
Interesting, I understood component 1 differently, but after doing some research you are correct. When they talked about result I assumed that result wasn't just W/L but would include margin.My gut instinct is that your gut instinct on NET and the cupcake blow out factor is correct.
Back in the top 10could LSU jump us?
could LSU jump us?
could LSU jump us?
Only if voters don't penalize them for losing to Florida at home.kind of forgot about this lol thx
Lost at Florida this week so it would be a joke if so. Speaking of that game, I’m not very impressed with Tennessee’s resume. I think we are closer to passing them than it may seem.
As Brew says, Tennessee lost.
Either Michigan or Michigan State will lose tomorrow.
Would be great to see either Houston or Nevada lose tonight. Not likely, but could happen.
MU will be ranked ahead of Nevada for sure. They lost this week. My question is (and this may be a strong take) but ... should Nevada start sweating if they lose tonight? I’m pretty sure they have not played a Quad 1 game all season. That is actually difficult to do.
MU will be ranked ahead of Nevada for sure. They lost this week. My question is (and this may be a strong take) but ... should Nevada start sweating if they lose tonight? I’m pretty sure they have not played a Quad 1 game all season. That is actually difficult to do.
MU will be ranked ahead of Nevada for sure. They lost this week. My question is (and this may be a strong take) but ... should Nevada start sweating if they lose tonight? I’m pretty sure they have not played a Quad 1 game all season. That is actually difficult to do.
Good one in Reno. Fresno State leads at Nevada. 62-60 with under 5 to play.
I fully expect for us to see them in the 2nd round. Either as a 4-5 matchup with the story line (us both being seeded too low), or as a 3-6 matchup (with the story line of Nevada being closer to a 3 seed than a 6 seed).
I fully expect for us to see them in the 2nd round. Either as a 4-5 matchup with the story line (us both being seeded too low), or as a 3-6 matchup (with the story line of Nevada being closer to a 3 seed than a 6 seed).That is silly to expect. Could it happen? Sure.. but quite unlikely that match up takes place. I think they grab a 5 seed. And very low chance we end up in the same chunk of raw bracket anyways.
Holy crap. If this keeps up I'd wager Texas Tech jumps us
I'd be surprised. Beating Kansas by 30 is more impressive than beatdowns of Butler and at Providence, but I don't think more impressive enough to over come the 264 vote gap between us and them.
I can’t tell if we should be rooting for Nevada or against them. It’s be nice to jump them in the poll, but I don’t want us to get sent out west again.Considering they lost to SDSU earlier this week, there’s about a 99% chance we jump them.
When is the last time kansas lost by 30 or more
Considering they lost to SDSU earlier this week, there’s about a 99% chance we jump them.
I agree with this analysis. I can see us at 10 on Monday. Holding out for 9 depending on the MSU-UM game.
I agree with this analysis. I can see us at 10 on Monday. Holding out for 9 depending on the MSU-UM game.
I’d like Michigan to win so we can steal some votes from MSU who is closer to us in polls and seeding.
I hope Villanova will still be ranked. :-\Yeah they wont be. 3 straight Ls to unranked teams. It sucks cuz fox keeps advertising this game as the game of the year in the conference top matchup. Now it s just top ten team takes on unranked nova. Doesn't have the same ring to it. Bummer
These Michigan uniforms are uuuuugly.
Thowbacks to 1989 when they won the national championship. Missouri had similar ones.
Yeah they wont be. 3 straight Ls to unranked teams. It sucks cuz fox keeps advertising this game as the game of the year in the conference top matchup. Now it s just top ten team takes on unranked nova. Doesn't have the same ring to it. BummerMy feelings in what you state. Iowa State & Louisville also lost twice this week. So, Villanova could hang in there at 24 or so. I hope.
Wouldn’t be too sure about #10. Tenn isn’t going to fall out of the Top 10, but there’s an outside chance TTU and/or LSU could leapfrog MU. Going to depend on how much AP voters value a home W against a marginally higher ranked team vs. a road win against substantially lower ranked team.
Livid? Lol
It amazes me how people can get that upset over polls.
Would really love to see Houston drop a head scratcher in the coming weeks. As many others have said, just keep winning and it doesn't matter, but it sure would be nice to have a little help as well.
Mark Berman has us at 8
I'll guess 10 as of now and 9 if MSU loses. I think the big wins behind us are too many votes behind.
LSU lost at home to Florida this week. Texas Tech maybe.
Don’t overlook the regency bias.... remember when MU lost to St Johns midweek, but then beat Nova on NMD and didn’t move at all? Florida is - arguably - even less a slouch that St Johns.
Don’t overlook the regency bias.... remember when MU lost to St Johns midweek, but then beat Nova on NMD and didn’t move at all? Florida is - arguably - even less a slouch that St Johns.
11:00 a.m. CST, https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll (https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll)
Isn't it past 11 back there now?
Isn't it past 11 back there now?
Yes but the AP system works as well as a square wheelCorrect.
The biggest joke of all is that Kansas only dropped to 15. They got crushed by 30 and only dropped 3 spots.
I would say that the biggest joke is that we only gained 32 points this week...Kansas deservingly lost 221Right, no love for rock solid wins. Not unreasonable for any top 25 team to slip up against Butler or @Providence.
The biggest joke of all is that Kansas only dropped to 15. They got crushed by 30 and only dropped 3 spots.
Jesse Newell dropped us from 20 to 21. Not impressed by our wins I guess.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jesse-newell
Jesse Newell dropped us from 20 to 21. Not impressed by our wins I guess.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll-voter/jesse-newell
I BELIEVE that is his week 16 bracket still. Also he has Nova at 20 which is just not possible
Ooooo maybe. It says week 17 but has our week 16 record.
AP really needs a quicker site update.
I think its very clear the blue bloods get the benefit of the doubt. The KUs, can have very poor losses that have little to no effect while the “others” either struggle to ascend or plummet with a single loss.
KU is a classic in this regard. Were initially very high, then lost their lottery pick in Azibuke and still did well behind the out of this world showing of Vick. MU fans as well as any know how important to that team those two were. Then they lose Vick and have gone 5-5 in their last 10 games including losing to WVU. What other team in the country loses its two best players , goes 5-5 in its last 10 and is 15th in the country? Unreal
It says released Feb 17th.
Here is his current ballot.
https://kenpom.com/
They also earned themselves a buffer by having more Q1 wins than any team not named Michigan State. Look at the teams ranked lower than them, who among them have better resumes than Kansas? A few might have slightly better resumes but not by much.
Granted but are we talking ncaa resumes or current ranking? Cuz look at the box scores, the team that beat all those teams pre-con doesnt exist anymore. And if we are talking ncaa doesnt the kenyon martin effect come into play here?
213 votes out of 6th place. 199 votes ahead of 14th place, but a healthy 439 vote cushion between us and 15th.Cue the old timers :)
213 votes can be made up with 2 wins for us and 1 loss for the teams in front of us.
Go Indiana, ECU, UCF, Nebraska, Maryland, Ole Miss, and Kentucky, my 2nd favorite teams this week! Rankings are dumb, but I'm with Boxer, since I attended Marquette I have never seen Marquette break the #8 barrier. I'd like to see us get there.
Jesse Newell was on Ken Pomeroy's podcast a few weeks ago. At that time, he explained that his methodology was to rank teams how he thought Vegas would rank them.
He looks at a number of rankings including KenPom, T-Rank, Sagarin, TeamRankings, etc., takes an average of those, and then moves them around. He admitted that he had Marquette lower than others and moved us up from the straight average. Newell also admitted there's no way to mathematically measure having someone like Howard that can take over a game.
He's had "extreme" ballots all year, but if you look back his Weeks 5-8 ballots are probably the most spot on of any of the writers. He was one that never ranked Arizona State even after they beat Kansas and he mentioned on that podcast that he had gotten a lot of flack from ASU fans.
I think we'll be moving up at least a few spots on his ballot this week. A road win where we were supposed to win by 6 and won by 18 looks really good in all the tempo-free efficiency rankings.
I would honestly rather have more people like him that take the poll serious and give it some actual thought even if it doesn't tend to work in our favor at the moment.
Do we hold our spot with a win today? Teams behind us had a good week.
If we win today we are 12 tomorrow.
Lose today we are 15.
If we win today we are 12 tomorrow.
Lose today we are 15.
Seth Davis has us at 14. Rothstein at 15. Osterman at 12. Borges at 17.
This is a bit of a downer post:
A 4 seed translates to top 16 in committees eyes. Unless we run the table they the BET, that will be another loss and I’m guessing top 20...5 seed.
I'm confused. muguru informed us that top 10 teams don't lose at home. Shouldn't the top 10 look like this?
1 Gonzaga
2 Tennessee
3 Purdue
4 Kansas
5 Buffalo
6 Nevada
7 Washington
8 Gardner-Webb
9 Prairie View A&M
10 (vacant - not enough teams to qualify)
Shouldn't I be panicking about MU being worse than Prairie View A&M?
Oh wait. I forgot this is all subjective analysis done by journalists. As it turns out, I shouldn't get all worked up about one win, one loss, or one set of rankings.
Let me ask you this and answer this honestly...were you okay that MU lost at home yesterday to a crap team?? Or was that a pathetic, disgusting performance that should have NEVER happened?? I will hang up and listen to your answer.
Let me ask you this and answer this honestly...were you okay that MU lost at home yesterday to a crap team?? Or was that a pathetic, disgusting performance that should have NEVER happened?? I will hang up and listen to your answer.
Let me ask you this and answer this honestly...were you okay that MU lost at home yesterday to a crap team?? Or was that a pathetic, disgusting performance that should have NEVER happened?? I will hang up and listen to your answer.
If you are asking if I think we played poorly against a team we should have beaten, then the answer is yes.
But "should have NEVER happened???" the answer is no. Teams lose games they are supposed to win all the time. Teams win games they are supposed to lose all the the time. As long as the former is an anomaly and the second one happens more than every once and awhile you are in pretty good shape.
Don't just disband the program, close down the school. How can we ever recover from the humiliation?Self-imposed death sentence. See everyone in 10 years.
Don't just disband the program, close down the school. How can we ever recover from the humiliation?Hiroshima finally arrived
Hiroshima finally arrived
Don't just fire Wojo. Disband the program.I blame the folk in the stands who just weren't competing hard enough.
We lost to Creighton at home.
Let me ask you this and answer this honestly...were you okay that MU lost at home yesterday to a crap team?? Or was that a pathetic, disgusting performance that should have NEVER happened?? I will hang up and listen to your answer.I'd be glad to respond. I'll take your comments one at a time:
I'd be glad to respond. I'll take your comments one at a time:
1. Was I okay? Yes. It's a basketball game. It's not life or death. Did I want Marquette to win? Absolutely. Was I disappointed when they lost? Yes.
2. Creighton is a "crap team" No, they aren't. They are #49 NET, #49 T-Rank, #48 Kenpom, #42 BPI, #59 SOR, #56 RPI, #42 KPI, #43 Sagarin. That's pretty good by every objective measure I can find.
3. Was it pathetic and disgusting? It was bad. It was sloppy. Calling a 6-point loss to the ~50th best team in the country "pathetic" and "disgusting" is silly.
4. Should it have NEVER happened? Don't be ridiculous. Upsets happen. The better team doesn't always win, even at home. If the better team won every game, then the best team would be undefeated every year. How often has that happened (including NCAA Tournament championship)? It's happened 7 times, last in 1976. Apparently every team since then has lost a game that they "NEVER" should have lost.
The world is not ending. The rest of the season isn't cancelled. If you compare the results this season (23-6 / 12-4, tied for 1st in BE in loss column, expected 3-6 seed in NCAA tournament) to the expectations, this season is still a success. One loss doesn't wipe all that away.
I'd be glad to respond. I'll take your comments one at a time:
1. Was I okay? Yes. It's a basketball game. It's not life or death. Did I want Marquette to win? Absolutely. Was I disappointed when they lost? Yes.
2. Creighton is a "crap team" No, they aren't. They are #49 NET, #49 T-Rank, #48 Kenpom, #42 BPI, #59 SOR, #56 RPI, #42 KPI, #43 Sagarin. That's pretty good by every objective measure I can find.
3. Was it pathetic and disgusting? It was bad. It was sloppy. Calling a 6-point loss to the ~50th best team in the country "pathetic" and "disgusting" is silly.
4. Should it have NEVER happened? Don't be ridiculous. Upsets happen. The better team doesn't always win, even at home. If the better team won every game, then the best team would be undefeated every year. How often has that happened (including NCAA Tournament championship)? It's happened 7 times, last in 1976. Apparently every team since then has lost a game that they "NEVER" should have lost.
The world is not ending. The rest of the season isn't cancelled. If you compare the results this season (23-6 / 12-4, tied for 1st in BE in loss column, expected 3-6 seed in NCAA tournament) to the expectations, this season is still a success. One loss doesn't wipe all that away.
Rankin's know longer matta, hey?
Especially since we won't be!
Pomeroy (after today's game) has us at #29. 'Member when some here thought he was bein' mean to us? LOL
Checked it twice to make sure, but Rothstein has us out of his top 25.
Unranked with Seth Davis. Maybe get that chip back on their shoulder if they fall out of the rankings
I haven't seen GURU this happy in a long time. All it took was a 4 game losing streak.
Remember when everyone complained that other teams weren't getting treated harsh enough in the NET, rankings, s-curve for losses? Now we are getting the same treatment. No anti-MU conspiracy, just the reality that this late in the season a single loss isn't going to hurt you that much. It took 4 straight losses for us to drop 13 spots in the polls, 8 spots in NET, and 2 seed lines on the s-curve.
who cares what we are ranked. Need to rectify our recent issues. we gotta stop turning the ball over and hit some damn FTs. Need markus to be a true pg too
We just had our best TO% game of the season and continue to be very good at the line (no Matta). But, ooook
You can't let facts get in the way of agoodopinion.
We just had our best TO% game of the season and continue to be very good at the line (no Matta). But, ooook
I don't particularly care to bang my head against the JB wall, and I admit you are thousands of times more knowledgeable about basketball than I am...
But.....
I don't see how someone could say free throws don't matter in a game like Saturdays. We missed 10 freebies. Markus missed 2 free throws in the final couple minutes. He makes both of those, we're in OT. Individual free throws definitely mattered on Saturday.
They will open the preseason at #7, they will end the season at #1.
Symir will reclassify. Guarantee that the top 10 team experience is very valuable to him. I think with this, we will be ranked 5
Is this fact or opinion?
I believe it is fact.
I can’t imagine Symir would reclassify and come a year early only to redshirt
I believe it is fact.
For future reference...this is the definition of an opinion.
Don’t worry it’s not just you here that doesn’t know the difference
If symir has made a decision, he has yet to inform the coaching staff.
I do think the reclassify and redshirt makes sense
I bet playing senior year sounds fun. Because you’re playing.
But I also bet being in college a year earlier and being part of a really good team is sounds even better. Even if you’re redshirting.
High school: play. (No ncaa tourney, no traveling around with the team. No trip to Europe this summer....)
College: play. OR RS: and no play buuuut trip to Europe, traveling, being in the fiserv. Being part of the team.
That’s fine. But I’m right.
No sure why it says Monday - 10/04/19 but hey that's today! And even better, it's Friday! Thinking they wont come out with the rankings for another month or so but I say 22
We finish numero uno.
Bid Daddy Chili talks...
We finish numero uno.Primero like El Primero
When does the pre-season AP ballot usually come out? Week prior to season?
Receiving votes.
Purdue at 23
Nova 10
Hall 12
X at 19
egads. America is drunk.
Preseason AP top 25, MU is 29.I wouldn't draw any conclusions from College Poll Tracker for a little while. Their data is messed up right now. Currently showing MU with 73 points (actually 68), Michigan with 304 (2), Wisconsin 79 (0), and a bunch of other errors. Looks like some leftover information from the 2018-19 season-end poll.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-michigan-state-makes-school-history-debuts-at-no-1-in-preseason-ap-top-25/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
This is the list of all AP voters and where they ranked (or didn't) Marquette, to come up with the 29 number:
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2019
Preseason AP top 25, MU is 29.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-michigan-state-makes-school-history-debuts-at-no-1-in-preseason-ap-top-25/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
This is the list of all AP voters and where they ranked (or didn't) Marquette, to come up with the 29 number:
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2019
I know it’s been said hundreds of times before....but man, look at that top 5 and try to tell me the Devil doesn’t run this world.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Not only is cheating and horrific scandal not met with justice or even karma....it is apparently directly proportional to success.
Preseason AP top 25, MU is 29.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-michigan-state-makes-school-history-debuts-at-no-1-in-preseason-ap-top-25/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
This is the list of all AP voters and where they ranked (or didn't) Marquette, to come up with the 29 number:
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2019
I know it’s been said hundreds of times before....but man, look at that top 5 and try to tell me the Devil doesn’t run this world.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Not only is cheating and horrific scandal not met with justice or even karma....it is apparently directly proportional to success.
It honestly is kinda depressing
Meh... at worst, I see it as the devil inspiring an old trope. Like the one where ND foosball is always Pre-season Top 25 irrespective of how their previous season ended and who's back (or new) from last season's team.
Any poll among casual basketball fans at this point in the season is probably going to yield the same top 5; it's simply name recognition at this point... wait until the last poll of the season to see if the devil is really peddling.
SMH. How many times do we have to go through this?
MU is not #29. There is no #29. If every poll voter was in lockstep agreement that MU was #29, how many votes would they get?
SMH. How many times do we have to go through this?
MU is not #29. There is no #29. If every poll voter was in lockstep agreement that MU was #29, how many votes would they get?
SMH. How many times do we have to go through this?
MU is not #29. There is no #29. If every poll voter was in lockstep agreement that MU was #29, how many votes would they get?
I predict we move up to 26th based on our drubbing of St. Norbert's (for Sultan), and the successful bionic leg replacement for Jayce.
Just two below us, at "31st," is Davidson.Very definitely so.
Good team coming off a 24-win season (including 14-4 in a good non-P6 conference), lots of experience, good shooters, outstanding coach.
That will be one heck of a tough game in Orlando. One of the keys to our season the same way Louisville was last year, IMHO.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/rankings/coaches/2nd in others receiving polls is not a bad starting place.There are a few weak teams on that list MU can overtake with a solid non conference season.
Coaches Poll. Other's receiving votes FWIW.
BPI has us at 18They also have UW-Madison 6th, and Seton Hall 46th. Don't know the ins and outs of their algorithm, but it certainly seems like one of the more flawed ones out there.
They also have UW-Madison 6th, and Seton Hall 46th. Don't know the ins and outs of their algorithm, but it certainly seems like one of the more flawed ones out there.
They had us 4th in the preseason last year, if I remember right.
And we ended up ranked #10 in real life until Markus got undercut on a "charge" at Nova and the Hausers took their ball home
MU @ #26. One spot behind Uw Madison who is ranked #25 because they took SMU to OT when they were ranked. Therefore some of the advanced metrics will have them #1 along with Andy Katz.
Do rankings come out today?
Do rankings come out today?
Did "The Legend" return to Utah State? 17th and KPom has them at 61. Some good talent there but that seems a bit whacky.
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
Others receiving votes.
I think they're legit. I ranked them as the best candidate to be a Buffalo-level buy game this year. They won the MWC autobid last year and have a pure stud in Sam Merrill.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2019/04/the-next-buffalo.html?m=1
Thanks Brew. I knew you'd be on it.
Queta has been out since a summer knee injury. They have some tougher games upcoming in November so we'll see. Easy conference.
Won’t have a shot at ranked until mid-late January at best.
Michigan and Butler were unranked just last week....this is all you need to know about the prowess of voters this time of year. It's December...relax.
Michigan had impressive wins to move up.
4 Big East teams in CBS' new top 25
No. 25 on NBC's Rob Dauster's ballot: https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/12/08/college-basketball-top-25-power-rankings-duke-louisville-kansas-kentucky-michigan-louisville-ohio-state/ (https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/12/08/college-basketball-top-25-power-rankings-duke-louisville-kansas-kentucky-michigan-louisville-ohio-state/)
Maybe we'll replace DePaul in that one.
"I’ve been impressed with Marquette defensively. If you can guard and you have two players that are as good at getting a bucket as Markus Howard and Koby McEwen, you have a chance to win a bunch of games."
Methinks Mr. Dauster hasn't watched many of our games since Koby went for 23 and 19 vs Pur and Wis ... but I appreciate the sentiment.
Replace Koby with Sacar and he's not wrong.
Decided to take a quick peek. In the 6 games since he (like most Warriors) had a poor outing in Madison, Sacar is averaging 14.3 ppg., with .515 on FGs and .412 on 3s. Darn good.
In the same span, Koby's at 6.2 ppg on .190 FG and .200 arc. Yikes!
I still have faith that Koby will right the ship.
11 votes!
https://apnews.com/APTop25CollegeBasketballPoll
I'm irrationally upset that Dayton's so far ahead of us. For a program that has zero to do with ours I really dislike them.
Lunardi moved Marquette from a 9 seed to a 7 seed in his updated bracket today.
Maybe we'll replace DePaul in that one.
"I’ve been impressed with Marquette defensively. If you can guard and you have two players that are as good at getting a bucket as Markus Howard and Koby McEwen, you have a chance to win a bunch of games."
Methinks Mr. Dauster hasn't watched many of our games since Koby went for 23 and 19 vs Pur and Wis ... but I appreciate the sentiment.
I get that rankings at this point are meaningless but we have wins over Kansas state, USC, Davidson and Purdue which are all better than Villanova's top win. I get Nova is a sexy pick because of the recent success but the resumes are night and day. Our two losses are to the #3 team in the country and @ wisconsin who never losses at home.
I get that rankings at this point are meaningless but we have wins over Kansas state, USC, Davidson and Purdue which are all better than Villanova's top win. I get Nova is a sexy pick because of the recent success but the resumes are night and day. Our two losses are to the #3 team in the country and @ wisconsin who never losses at home.
I'm irrationally upset that Dayton's so far ahead of us. For a program that has zero to do with ours I really dislike them.
Call the polls whatever you want: "wanting" ... "stupid" ... "meaningless" ... etc.
All of those words (and others like them) are true.
Polls are unnecessary. They determine nothing. College basketball has this thing called the NCAA tournament that ultimately decides the sweetest 16 teams, the most elite 8 teams, the top 4 teams and the "best" team. Many argue that the tournament does not determine the "best" team, which I guess apparently means that system also is "flawed."
The polls are conversation pieces. I like it when our Warriors are ranked because it makes me feel good. Last year, when somebody noticed my MU sweatshirt, I liked being able to say, "Yeah, I'm a Marquette alum, and our basketball team is No. 10 in the nation this season. And we've got this crazy-good scorer named Markus Howard!" I like seeing our winning scores frequently on the ESPN scroll, a perk of being ranked. And it's probably nice for coaches to be able to point to a ranking when recruiting.
But "meaningful"? Nope. The good thing is all of us know that going in.
Moved up to 19 in Andy Katz’s Power Rankings. We were 28th previously.
Tough to move up without playing for a week. Once conference season rolls around it'll be better
My guess is the earliest we get ranked is the week of January 6 (likely have to go at least 4-1 in that stretch to get into the ranking).
There is no way we get ranked if we lose 1 of the next 5. Need to go 5-0.
With this team......What game are we "guaranteed" to win once the conference starts?
Just askin?
With this team......What game are we "guaranteed" to win once the conference starts?There are no guarantees in life. Suck it up.
Just askin?
With this team......What game are we "guaranteed" to win once the conference starts?
Just askin?
KenPom currently lists every Big East game as either Tier A or B except home games against Providence and St. John's. Gonna be a bloodbath.
we got this.^ 100%
7/9 home games minimum
Dauster: 20 (21 last week)
Murray: 23 (25 last week)
Carino: NR
Blum: NR
Berman: NR
Bozich: NR
Davis: NR
Beat Villinova, and then MU will be ranked, as I am not sure MU can beat Creighton, unless Markus goes off again there.
9 of 10 Big East teams ranked or receiving votes in today’s AP poll
If Creighton doesn't shoot well they are very beatable. Even if they shoot well, we could dominate on the glass and beat them.
I think we match up a lot better with Creighton than we did last year. Loved Joey's offense but whatever Jay he guarded last season was basically a free three points every possession. This season we can throw out long and moblie guards and wings like McEwen, Sacar, Greg, Cain, and Bailey on all of their shooters and force them to drive into the paint where they are still good but not elite....and our paint defense has been elite this season.
As famous as they are for their three point shooting, they have at least 1 non-shooter on the floor at all times that our three headed monster can guard. If Mintz comes back and is shooting well then they can go into their patented 5 out offense.
The one thing I worry about in the Creighton game is who Markus guards. Last season Zegarowski was human and Markus could handle him. This season I'm afraid he will shoot over Markus every possession. He's too small too handle Ballock, Alexander, or Mahoney so he has to guard Zegarowski unless one of their backups (or Mintz if healthy) is on the floor. Markus is a solid defender but Zegarowski has become one of the elite offensive players in the country and slowing him down is a huge ask for anyone.
I think we match up a lot better with Creighton than we did last year. Loved Joey's offense but whatever Jay he guarded last season was basically a free three points every possession. This season we can throw out long and moblie guards and wings like McEwen, Sacar, Greg, Cain, and Bailey on all of their shooters and force them to drive into the paint where they are still good but not elite....and our paint defense has been elite this season.
As famous as they are for their three point shooting, they have at least 1 non-shooter on the floor at all times that our three headed monster can guard. If Mintz comes back and is shooting well then they can go into their patented 5 out offense.
The one thing I worry about in the Creighton game is who Markus guards. Last season Zegarowski was human and Markus could handle him. This season I'm afraid he will shoot over Markus every possession. He's too small too handle Ballock, Alexander, or Mahoney so he has to guard Zegarowski unless one of their backups (or Mintz if healthy) is on the floor. Markus is a solid defender but Zegarowski has become one of the elite offensive players in the country and slowing him down is a huge ask for anyone.
I think we match up a lot better with Creighton than we did last year. Loved Joey's offense but whatever Jay he guarded last season was basically a free three points every possession. This season we can throw out long and moblie guards and wings like McEwen, Sacar, Greg, Cain, and Bailey on all of their shooters and force them to drive into the paint where they are still good but not elite....and our paint defense has been elite this season.
As famous as they are for their three point shooting, they have at least 1 non-shooter on the floor at all times that our three headed monster can guard. If Mintz comes back and is shooting well then they can go into their patented 5 out offense.
The one thing I worry about in the Creighton game is who Markus guards. Last season Zegarowski was human and Markus could handle him. This season I'm afraid he will shoot over Markus every possession. He's too small too handle Ballock, Alexander, or Mahoney so he has to guard Zegarowski unless one of their backups (or Mintz if healthy) is on the floor. Markus is a solid defender but Zegarowski has become one of the elite offensive players in the country and slowing him down is a huge ask for anyone.
Sounds like we should roll with a Symir, Greg, Sacar, BB, Theo lineup
Sounds like we should roll with a Symir, Greg, Sacar, BB, Theo lineup
How is Gonzaga #1 and we’re happy we beat Dakota state
How is Gonzaga #1 and we’re happy we beat Dakota state
How is Gonzaga #1 and we’re happy we beat Dakota state
How is Gonzaga #1 and we’re happy we beat Dakota state
We have a long way to go, guess my expectations are way to high
We have a long way to go, guess my expectations are way to high
Not sure about that. I think that lineup would struggle to score and I have no idea who Symir could guard successfully. I love his passing, but he truly is the weakest defender on the team by a country mile. Which is fine, most freshmen struggle with team defense at first. He'll improve.
About the only freshman whose defense wasn't awful was Michael Jordan.
I don’t know about you guys. But I’m happy to beat any time any day. W’s are W’s.
Win next 2.
About the only freshman whose defense wasn't awful was Michael Jordan.
Win next 2.
This. If we win the next 2 I think we get to 20-21 range.
Ballots this week look very similar to last week. I wouldn’t be surprised if we actually lost a few:
Dauster: 21 (20 last week)
Carino: UR
Davis: UR
Bozich: UR
Decock: 19 (18 last week)
Blum: UR
9 BE teams receiving votes
NINE Big East teams getting votes with two in the Top 11. BEast indeed.
Does Dayton join with UConn to keep the numbers even?
NINE Big East teams getting votes with two in the Top 11. BEast indeed.
Does Dayton join with UConn to keep the numbers even?
NINE Big East teams getting votes with two in the Top 11. BEast indeed.
Does Dayton join with UConn to keep the numbers even?
More votes
Yeah only way we're ranked is if a heck of a lot more voters were watching today than New Years day
Jake Adkins has marquette At 18
19, and I'm pretty sure Jake doesn't have an AP vote.my bad.
We got beat soundly by Creighton, and beat Villanova. Not going to be ranked and that is fine by me at the moment. Team needs to remain hungry and stay away from press clippings at the moment.Maybe
We got beat soundly by Creighton, and beat Villanova. Not going to be ranked and that is fine by me at the moment. Team needs to remain hungry and stay away from press clippings at the moment.Yeah, just outside the top 25, closer to 30 probably.
Yeah, just outside the top 25, closer to 30 probably.Bilas has us at 26
I agree, keep the dogs hungry, feed them at game time.
It's the same scenario we've been in all year. Beat Wisconsin, get ranked, don't, don't. Beat Maryland, get ranked, don't, don't. Beat Creighton & Nova, get ranked, don't, don't.
We're in that situation again. Beat Providence & Seton Hall, get ranked. We need to have one of those decisive, "can't ignore us" kind of weeks. Thus far we've failed to do that when the spotlight was the brightest.
DeCock- 21 (19)
Carino- NR
Dauster- NR
Berman- NR
https://apnews.com/APTop25CollegeBasketballPoll
Dropped a few votes. Same situation as last week, where a 2-0 weeks with a road win against a team also receiving votes should put us in.
Yep yep.I would usually agree with your point but this team hasn't demonstrated the ability to consistently focus and prepare for games. That's on Wojo. I'm afraid any distraction at this point would be enough to negatively affect them. They're ranked about where they should be and that is good for grounding them in reality. Do I make it sound like the team is fragile at the moment? Maybe.....If Kobys confidence really is back then rank away. I'm not sold it is as of now. And Jamal just plain makes me nervous. It's to be expected though. Guys getting their first real minutes in a major conference, especially the Beast. Another solid win would be huge for so many reasons.
And I'd always rather be ranked. Raises profile of the program, even if only a smidgen. Has our scores repeatedly on ESPN's bottom line, which recruits (and their parents) see just as the rest of us do. And just plain makes most MU folks (fans, students, administrators, athletes) feel good. I liked wearing my MU t-shirt to my HS practices last year and having one of our players say, "I saw you guys won again Saturday. What are you ranked now?"
We were ranked most of last season, including during our 20-2 run. One could just as easily argue that being ranked kept our guys focused.
I would usually agree with your point but this team hasn't demonstrated the ability to consistently focus and prepare for games. That's on Wojo I'm afraid any distraction at this point would be enough to negatively affect them. They're ranked about where they should be and that is good for grounding them in reality. Do I make it sound like the team is fragile at the moment? Maybe.....If Kobys confidence really is back then rank away. I'm not sold it is as of now. And Jamal just plain makes me nervous. It's to be expected though. Guys getting their first real minutes in a major conference, especially the Beast. Another solid win would be huge for so many reasons.
Let's get ranked the Dayton way:
1) Play a crappy schedule with the only high NET ranking team, Kansas, you get beat.
2) You play TV Tommy and a Tech with no buzz.
3) You lose to Colorado but the world forgives you because you're UD.
Cripe, using the UD formula, my grade school probably could have been ranked!
Let's get ranked the Dayton way:
1) Play a crappy schedule with the only high NET ranking team, Kansas, you get beat.
2) You play TV Tommy and a Tech with no buzz.
3) You lose to Colorado but the world forgives you because you're UD.
Cripe, using the UD formula, my grade school probably could have been ranked!
The team "consistently focused and prepared" for 3 months last season, going 20-2 in the process. Ranked just about the entire time, including advancing into the top-10.This is a different team than last year in one very major way. You had Sam and Joey who despite their shortcomings had played a lot of basketball together in high pressure settings. When they were on offense during the winning streak Sam and Joey were always calm and under control. This years team doesn't have that level of chemistry and confidence yet. The VU game had its moments where the offense looked in sync, but that stretch in the second half, well.......
We are 11-3 this season, with 2 road losses to teams that are 17-0 at home and a neutral loss to a top-12 (then top-5) team. I don't think winning our next two and getting ranked, say, No. 22 would change the "focus."
Plus, we weren't ranked when we apparently "lost focus" in our three defeats this season.
Don't overthink it. Rankings are for fans, and this fan would rather have his team ranked.
The difference between Dayton and us is efficiency. They steamrolled in wins and lost by justthismuch in losses. That's why they are top-10 in the metrics. Had we lost our games by 2-6 points and won everything else fairly decisively, we'd be ranked too.
This board will melt down if Wisconsin wins its next two games and enters the top 25 first.
What the Badgers are ranked means absolutely nothing to me.
I really doubt the board will melt down. Maybe a poster or two.There’s also a poster or two who will enjoy it.
Let's get ranked the Dayton way:
1) Play a crappy schedule with the only high NET ranking team, Kansas, you get beat.
2) You play TV Tommy and a Tech with no buzz.
3) You lose to Colorado but the world forgives you because you're UD.
Cripe, using the UD formula, my grade school probably could have been ranked!
I'm a longtime lurker, but I had to post; the "ABD" crowd including you, PTM, MU Fan in Connecticut, et al. are all incredibly insecure about UD. What happened to you?
I'm a longtime lurker, but I had to post; the "ABD" crowd including you, PTM, MU Fan in Connecticut, et al. are all incredibly insecure about UD. What happened to you?
No Votes for MU this week.
That's still surprising though considering IL is now ranked and our resume looks almost exactly the same. Even Purdue is getting votes still.
I'm not saying we deserve it (I don't think we do), but neither do some of these other teams.
Do we get votes tomorrow?
Do we get votes tomorrow?
We'll get votes. But we're back in the position we were in before Wisconsin and Maryland and Creighton and Providence. Win all the games this week and we probably get ranked. Don't, and we won't.Thinking we will still be on the outside looking in but I guess cross that bridge WHEN we get there
Thinking we will still be on the outside looking in but I guess cross that bridge WHEN we get there
Thinking we will still be on the outside looking in but I guess cross that bridge WHEN we get there
I think our chances at Butler are pretty good. Beating Butler would not surprise me one bit.
What makes Butler challenging is how well they take away what their opponent wants to do. I'm concerned what happens if they can limit Howard. That said, if Markus is even average (25-28 points, 53+ eFG%, doesn't turn it over too much) I agree. I can see that game being decided at the arc, both teams are very similar in how they diametrically shoot and guard the three.
Not positive but pretty sure Markus played pretty well against them last year didn't he?
Now obviously Butler is much improved this year, but its basically the same players at least.
Only 2 points? That is embarrassing for the AP pollsters. I did not think we'd be ranked, but how is it that we only had one pollster give us 2 points? I just don't get it. Look at the resumes of the other teams receiving votes and even some of the lower ranked teams. We should be on the radar of more than 1 person.
What worries me most about the Butler game is that Butler will likely lose @ Nova tomorrow night..so MU going in there with them on a 3 game losing streak?? Not good. That being said, I haven't bought the hype with them from day 1. Think they are starting to be exposed for who they really are(a bottom half BE team, even if they ultimately don't end up there). Definitely a winnable game, and as Brew said, there are ways of exploiting them.
Their “hype from day 1” was a predicted 8th (out of 10) place finish in the Big East.
And I’d much rather play a team struggling than a team rolling.
Received no votes this week
https://apnews.com/APTop25CollegeBasketballPoll
Bozich has us at 23 (first time ranking us)not looking promising
Carino NR
DeCock NR
Steele 24
berman NR
Blum NR
Dauster NR
not looking promising
Now up to #22 in the CBS rankings
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-iowa-led-by-player-of-year-candidate-luka-garza-jumps-to-no-17-in-top-25-and-1/
Parish talked about it on his podcast. Said we deserve to be higher, but that he didn't want to jump us ahead of Kentucky because he knew he'd get flamed on Twitter.LOL
Parish talked about it on his podcast. Said we deserve to be higher, but that he didn't want to jump us ahead of Kentucky because he knew he'd get flamed on Twitter.
Does he not know of the Dauster tweet?
Ben Steele
@BenSteeleMJS
·
54s
Marquette is not ranked in the AP top 25. Second team in 'others receiving votes' after Texas Tech.
A victory over Butler next Sunday would definitely push #mubb into the rankings.
I’d say we need to beat butler this week to be ranked
Parrish put Marquette in his CBS poll recently for first time all season, and just about each day they have progressed one spot. They began at 23, then 22. They are 21 today.
He does a daily poll. He frequently references Ken Pomeroy, but also considers other things. He also keeps track of weekly AP voters, especially the ones with out of norm rankings.
That's funny. He said when he put them in that our resume is probably better than 23, but he didn't want to put us ahead of Kentucky because their fans would light him up on Twitter. Since MSU lost again, he could keep moving us up without UK losing.
Today Parrish has Marquette at #18 in his CBS Sports poll.
He doesn’t get an AP vote, correct?
He doesn’t get an AP vote, correct?
Does anyone need to lose in front of us for us to be ranked if we win sunday? Or do we just jump right in
5 of the teams ranked 16-25 (bottom 10) would have already lost since the last poll. There could very well be more losses this weekend. Win in I feel confident we'd be in, but we are 0-3 in "win to be ranked" games this season.
Others receiving votes. 26.
You... ruined the countdown.
You... ruined the countdown.I am an a-hole.
now this 100-point loss to us ... we beat them by 100 at ours.
Love the 100-point win reference, it did seem like it. And the net ratings give credit for win margin up to 10 points, so we get the same max credit whether it is 76-57 or 100-0.
Kenpom moved us from 31 to 22, and net already had us at 24 and Butler at 10 so even with us being at home we should move up a few there.
Hopefully voters look at those two and see us 22 and perhaps 20, and actually nudge us up a few. The key to top 25 is that everyone watches the espn highlights of the top 25.
Love the 100-point win reference, it did seem like it. And the net ratings give credit for win margin up to 10 points, so we get the same max credit whether it is 76-57 or 100-0.
Kenpom moved us from 31 to 22, and net already had us at 24 and Butler at 10 so even with us being at home we should move up a few there.
Hopefully voters look at those two and see us 22 and perhaps 20, and actually nudge us up a few. The key to top 25 is that everyone watches the espn highlights of the top 25.
Seen it twice now.
Dominate = verb
Dominant = adjective
23
Beat Nova on Wednesday and in the top 20 the following week.
Villanova has lost three straight, including their last two home games. Plus, we beat them already. This may be the tallest order of the year. The good news is we are going to get their best shot, and that can only improve us looking toward March.
I’m pretty sure we are going to get everyone’s best shot from here forward. That being said, hard to win at VU—but this is the year to try it.
https://www.roanoke.com/sports/college/mark-berman-s-new-ap-top-ballot/article_67de713e-4b8c-11ea-8491-6bd41d6bd6e2.html
Wow. MU debuts at no. 20 on this ballot.5 BEast teams crack his top 25. Nice.
I’d rather not be ranked going into NovaHey lets play harder, they are ranked. Words of a manager.
I’d rather not be ranked going into Nova
I’d rather not be ranked going into NovaI am the only one who realizes the absurdity of this comment? You do realize you are effectively saying " I'd prefer we weren't playing this well". I mean that's what that is. I'd prefer we lost a few more games to avoid the ranking because Villanova will play extra hard if they find out were ranked tomorrow. If we aren't ranked I dont think they'll even bother preparing for the game and we win in a blowout..
Hey lets play harder, they are ranked. Words of a manager.
I’d rather be ranked #1 going into Nova.
Nm
I’d rather not be ranked going into Nova
Real life and that of 18-22 year olds in basketball is much different. Sometimes rankings = “we made it” and that’s the concern. A coach can preach and preach and it doesn’t matter because they have been recognized. It takes a mature group to put that in the proper perspective.
I am the only one who realizes the absurdity of this comment? You do realize you are effectively saying " I'd prefer we weren't playing this well". I mean that's what that is. I'd prefer we lost a few more games to avoid the ranking because Villanova will play extra hard if they find out were ranked tomorrow. If we aren't ranked I dont think they'll even bother preparing for the game and we win in a blowout..
Always always always better to be ranked.Correct.
I’d rather not be ranked going into Nova
Correct.
Nope. First off, I think and have said so for years that human pollsters are a joke. The computers have captured how good we are for many weeks. We are what we are in terms of how good we are.Not sure I really buy that. I think most players can handle it. Not like it effects the play I mean maybe sometimes? Idk very rarely. Being ranked is good for publicity, recruiting etc. Everyone sees the top 25 scores highlights. Puts more butts in the seats generally and creates more interest and support for the team. Also it's a sign you're playing very well. It's not a double edged sword. I don't see any reason we wouldn't prefer be ranked as much as we can.
When that number is out in front of you players start to read headlines for the same reason here that some of you get super jacked about being ranked. It is a double edged sword.
Nope. First off, I think and have said so for years that human pollsters are a joke. The computers have captured how good we are for many weeks. We are what we are in terms of how good we are.
When that number is out in front of you players start to read headlines for the same reason here that some of you get super jacked about being ranked. It is a double edged sword.
I like the setup going into the Nova game. Much more balanced scoring from MU lately. I think we grab a nice road win @Nova.
Nope. First off, I think and have said so for years that human pollsters are a joke. The computers have captured how good we are for many weeks. We are what we are in terms of how good we are.
When that number is out in front of you players start to read headlines for the same reason here that some of you get super jacked about being ranked. It is a double edged sword.
No worries, you won't be ranked.
Always always always better to be ranked.
You've said this in a couple threads, but I think sometimes you have to consider both pros and cons of a situatian. For example, when you win a National Championship, that creates a lot of pressure and expectations the following season.That's a terrible problem to have.
That's a terrible problem to have.
That's a terrible problem to have.I'm willing to have Marquette carry that burden for the conference.
OMG, I hope that never happens to us! It would be absolutely awful!
DeCock at 18 as well.
Leistikow at 17
Bozich at 15
Always always always better to be ranked.Correct, it also gives the players the validation that all of Wojo's demotivation tactics work!
Correct, it also gives the players the validation that all of Wojo's demotivation tactics work!
In all seriousness, its always better to be ranked. If players are looking for a chip, or edge, they should be ranked higher.
You've said this in a couple threads, but I think sometimes you have to consider both pros and cons of a situatian. For example, when you win a National Championship, that creates a lot of pressure and expectations the following season.
When I first read this, I thought you were doing the non-teal teal thing ... and maybe I still do.
Always better to be ranked for all the reasons others (and I) have been stating: exposure, validation of hard work, recruiting, etc. Not a single downside IMHO. Not one.
Though I already can see by the comments in this and other threads that if we get ranked and if we lose Wednesday, there will be a few mopes bragging, "I told you so," and blaming the ranking for the loss.
We all know if we lose on Wednesday, it wasn't the ranking that did it. It was likely because I wasn't sitting in exactly the correct spot on my couch.
When I first read this, I thought you were doing the non-teal teal thing ... and maybe I still do.
Wow... For some reason, Gary Parrish looks so much more sophisticated now; maybe it's because he's ditched the scarf/ascot thing and put on some nerd glasses.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-markus-howard-has-marquette-up-to-no-16-in-top-25-and-1/
WTF that the headline is giving Markus all the credit for Marquette being top 25.
Don't worry.....You won't be ranked after losing 5 in a row......
22 in Coaches
Wow, didn't see us breaking top 20 right away. I keep looking at us rising in these and in Kenpom, and I can't help but think where we'd be if we didn't pee down our leg against Providence and Butler. Neither of those look like bad losses at the moment, but still.
Good place to be - playing for seeding and a chance to make a huge statement this week.
They've exceeded my (admittedly low) expectations and look to be really gelling as a team.
We also won an insanely improbable game @ Xavier, so whatever.
WTF that the headline is giving Markus all the credit for Marquette being top 25.
Marq #18 +8
That is how it works, honey.
No
Markus misses the last 13 mins. Goodin, who couldn't hit water from a boat, starts making everything. Hell yeah it was improbable.
No
Markus misses the last 13 mins. Goodin, who couldn't hit water from a boat, starts making everything. You bet your ass it was improbable.
We also won an insanely improbable game @ Xavier, so whatever.
No
Edge of the top 25 to start. Top 15 at some point.
No
Marquette was down by 8 (53-45) with Howard already out with 9:08 remaining at the 2nd half. At that point the Xavier win probability was 85.7%. Xavier was also up 5 with 1:46 left and had a win probability of 80.3%. Yet it was not an improbable win because........you say so?
Got it.
When I first read this, I thought you were doing the non-teal teal thing ... and maybe I still do.I also presumed it was silent teal in response to Chico's continued dumpidity and answered in kind.
Just amazing how far we have come from the end of last season. "I'm comin' back", "We're transferring". Holy Mackerel how does this play out for MU. And now the story continues to unfold.
Right now, as we sit here on Feb. 10, 2020, I truly think Marquette is one of the best stories in all of college basketball.Well said and I agree. I really hope this story ends with a tourney run. This could end up being a really special season especially if yesterday was an indication of what to expect.
A lot of folks - including many decades-long Marquette fans - thought this season would be horrendous and thought the program itself was doomed.
Instead, we are in 2nd place in one of the nation's best conferences, we are ranked in the top 20, we are playing our best basketball, and we have a great recruiting class signed (with more possibly to come).
Like you, I'm excited to see how the story unfolds!
Where have all the Mike Deane fans been lately?
Right now, as we sit here on Feb. 10, 2020, I truly think Marquette is one of the best stories in all of college basketball.
A lot of folks - including many decades-long Marquette fans - thought this season would be horrendous and thought the program itself was doomed.
Instead, we are in 2nd place in one of the nation's best conferences, we are ranked in the top 20, we are playing our best basketball, and we have a great recruiting class signed (with more possibly to come).
Like you, I'm excited to see how the story unfolds!
But some folks shrug and say, "Nah, X sucks. It should have been an easy win." They don't appreciate how hard it is to win any Big East game, let alone an adversity-filled one. And X doesn't suck. They'd be ranked right now ... if they hadn't lost twice to us!
Wait how can this be? I feel like I've read that being first in "others receiving votes" is not a ranking of 26!!!
Great post! Yes, Xavier still could make the tournament even with the losses to us. As I've said before, it's hard for critics to accept both but Markus is great AND we are deep.
He is the greatest decoy I. The world even if he just runs from corner to corner and then out toward half court because teams must spread out to cover him and this year we have the talent to take advantage and they are good enough to score if he is out. But he is also the ace.in the hole to score 30 or 40 when needed or if a team sags at all to cover the rest .
If I'm remembering correctly, didn't X make a helluva run last year to earn a dance ticket?Made a nice run, but X went to the NIT.
Made a nice run, but X went to the NIT.
Made a nice run, but X went to the NIT.
Okay, thanks. But I'm right that they were dead in the water early, correct?
Where have all the Mike Deane fans been lately?
Researching Mike Bargen's recruit ranking and trying to find a way to inflate it to top 25.
Wasn’t he the 49th ranked player in the state of Kentucky?
Guru expects MU to win every game and anything less than 40-0 with a natty is a failure to meet expectations.
Ergo, no win is improbable.
Absolutely 100% FALSE and a bold faced lie. But, keep believing what you want. Let's forget(conveniently I suppose) that if the call for the foul up 3 is executed properly, that game NEVER goes two OT's, therefore making the game a win, not an "improbable" one. However, I suppose by saying "improbable", it props it up to be more then what it was.
Even besides the foul up 3 not being executed properly, and even without Markus, that was a game that MU was expected to win. Cite all the #'s and BS you want about how they were underdogs etc etc(people buy into that sh*t way too much), the simple fact of the matter is, USE THE FREAKING EYE TEST. No one does anymore. It didn't take/or shouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to know MU was the better team going into the game. They were the better team during the game(even without Markus) and they were the better team after the game. It was a great win under the circumstances, however, it is incredibly fair to argue that those circumstances should have never unfolded to begin with.
Either way, it's long over with..I'm on to Villanova.
Your eye test must use anti-blue and gold lens. I am not starting an argument on whether you are a fan but your ability to accurate evaluate MU’s team relative to the competition is way off. Maybe you are high on the MU ganja and think MU only has the munchies for cupcakes.
If MU wins your eye test tells you that the opposing team sucked and we should have won.
If MU loses your eye test tells that was a game MU should never have lost because the opponents sucked.
No matter the line or skillset of the MU opponent, MU should win. If they don’t it is a complete failure of Wojo or the players.
At this point of the season you should be able to say the MU is going to struggle at home with Seton Hall. They will struggle with Nova on the road. They will struggle with Creighton at home. If they win those games those are games which the team stepped up and achieved a good quality win. More than the some of the parts.
So you should be able to use the eye test on MU to say MU isn’t a Top 5 team and will have to play to their fullest potential to win and the likelihood they win all three of those games is an amazing feat.
You have NO unnatural carnal knowledgeing idea what my eyes tell me, and don't try to pretend you do. If you read anything on this board, I have already said on more than one occasion already that the Nova game scares me. It is not a good time to be playing them.
If you don't think MU is a better basketball team than Xavier, Butler or Providence(just a few examples), then I'm not going to waste my time with you because you have ERO basketball knowledge. It's that simple.
I have already said on more than one occasion already that the Nova game scares me. It is not a good time to be playing them.
Do my eyes deceive me or is guru offering an excuse?
then I'm not going to waste my time with you because you have ERO basketball knowledge. It's that simple.Speaking of which, MU needs to update our unis to this from the ERO league
You have NO unnatural carnal knowledgeing idea what my eyes tell me, and don't try to pretend you do. If you read anything on this board, I have already said on more than one occasion already that the Nova game scares me. It is not a good time to be playing them.Give the whole I'm worried about the timing thing a rest already. I can easily just respond back and say nova is shaken and marquette is gelling, therefore I feel good about the game. I'm not necessarily saying that but yeah. This stuff just isn't worth mentioning 15 times. I dont think previous games for either team have that much impact on this game. Could go either way. Would you feel better about this game if NOVA was coming off a 9 game win streak? What if marquette was on a losing streak? Would you be less scared. What are you scared about anyway? Unless it's a complete blow out a loss doesnt even hurt us much.
If you don't think MU is a better basketball team than Xavier, Butler or Providence(just a few examples), then I'm not going to waste my time with you because you have ERO basketball knowledge. It's that simple.
I’m not scared for a loss. I’m scared at how much upside this opportunity provides us
The only thing I'm scared of is being scared. And quite frankly, that scares me.this.
18 ... that's a very nice jump. It shows that the electorate appreciates our body of work this last month: 6-1, including some very nice wins.
And the beautiful thing for those who think being ranked somehow will de-motivate our lads this week is that Nova is still ranked ahead of us. So, if he chooses to refer to the polls at all (some coaches don't like to), Wojo can say this:
"We deserve to be ranked. It is validation of all the hard work you guys have done, and of the way we have been able to win games whether we have been at our best or we have had to overcome adversity. It shows how close we have become as a team, and how playing for each other can lift us to ever-greater heights.
"And even though we are 6-1 over the last month, and even though we beat Villanova like a drum in January, and even though we finally are starting to get the respect we deserve, we STILL are ranked 3 spots behind Nova.
"This game Wednesday is not gonna be easy. They're desperate to win, and they are at home. We need to match their intensity and take advantage of this wonderful opportunity to show how far we have come this season, this opportunity for you to tell the world that Marquette will be heard from on a national stage before this season is done.
"I have so much faith in you, and so much love for all of you. Now let's kick some a$$!"
You have NO unnatural carnal knowledgeing idea what my eyes tell me, and don't try to pretend you do. If you read anything on this board, I have already said on more than one occasion already that the Nova game scares me. It is not a good time to be playing them.
If you don't think MU is a better basketball team than Xavier, Butler or Providence(just a few examples), then I'm not going to waste my time with you because you have ERO basketball knowledge. It's that simple.
I’m not scared for a loss. I’m scared at how much upside this opportunity provides us
Dude, we've won 6/7. Relax. Have a drink or a smoke. It's okay to enjoy it and not go aggro on everyone who ever responds to you.
Do my eyes deceive me or is guru offering an excuse?
For several weeks, the humorously named Raleigh-Durham-area columnist Luke DeCock was one of the few who had MU in his top 25. He dropped us out after our 1-3 start, but then put us back in, and here's what he wrote yesterday:
"I had to ask myself this week, 'Why do I seem to be consistently higher on Marquette (back on the ballot at No. 18 this week) than anyone else?' So I did a little self-analysis to back-check my work, and I guess I'll just have to live with it. The Golden Eagles have only one bad loss (at home to Providence) against a bunch of quietly good wins (Purdue, at Kansas State, at Georgetown, at Xavier) and are 22nd in KenPom, 18th in WAB, 17th in SOR. That's a top-25 resume by my criteria."
He obviously didn't know when he wrote it that so many fellow voters would rank MU at least as high this week. I like his explanation, and I look forward to seeing where he and others rank us after we get a less-quiet win tomorrow at Nova.
And like it or not, history under Wojo has indicated, they do not perform well typically when they have a HUGE opportunity in front of them. Let's hope this time is different.
I apologize, just edgy...HUGE opportunity tomorrow night and I want it badly.
NOT an excuse whatsoever. Makes it tougher in my mind, but still expect them to win.
Did u write knute rocknes speeches for him? Keep ur day job
NOT an excuse whatsoever. Makes it tougher in my mind, but still expect them to win.
So let me get this straight.
All American player being injured is an excuse.
Playing on the road is an excuse.
The opposing team being on a three game losing streak is not an excuse it just makes the game tougher.
Seems to me like all three things make the game tougher... or in your words are excuses
I think it comes down to which team wants it more. We won 3 and Butler lost 3 and they beat us on their home court. Now were faced with the exact same situation. I think we match up better with Nova than Butler. So I am cautiously optimistic, but road wins are really tough.As a fan, the refs worry me in this one as well.
I hope it's not different than the 20 huge opportunities Wojo's Warriors capitalized on in going 20-2 over 3 months last season. I also hope it's not different than the 7 huge opportunities Wojo's Warriors have capitalized on so far this BEast season.
Every game, especially every conference game, is a huge opportunity. Since the start of last season, Wojo's team has capitalized more often than not.
Not more badly than Wojo and his players do.
So do I, and already have said many times that they will win.
I honestly expect our Warriors to win every game ... while being realistic enough to accept that the other team's coach also gets paid, and the other team's players also are talented and highly motivated.
So let me get this straight.
All American player being injured is an excuse.
Playing on the road is an excuse.
The opposing team being on a three game losing streak is not an excuse it just makes the game tougher.
Seems to me like all three things make the game tougher... or in your words are excuses
So let me get this straight.
All American player being injured is an excuse.
Playing on the road is an excuse.
The opposing team being on a three game losing streak is not an excuse it just makes the game tougher.
Seems to me like all three things make the game tougher... or in your words are excuses
Here's the problem with most here after a loss...they offer up excuses as to why MU lost. If you give me reasons why they lost...that's a different story. But it seems so many don't know the difference between an excuse or a reason. BIG difference.
For the record, how many times in your sports following lifetime have you heard a Coach say "an injury is not an excuse, other guys just need to step up". That pretty much says it all, right?? Injuries are NOT an excuse. They MIGHT be a reason, but not an excuse.
I think it comes down to which team wants it more.
Not to pick on you too much... But get the word to wojo! Forget practice, just "want" to win more 8-)
Here's the problem with most here after a loss...they offer up excuses as to why MU lost. If you give me reasons why they lost...that's a different story. But it seems so many don't know the difference between an excuse or a reason. BIG difference.
For the record, how many times in your sports following lifetime have you heard a Coach say "an injury is not an excuse, other guys just need to step up". That pretty much says it all, right?? Injuries are NOT an excuse. They MIGHT be a reason, but not an excuse.
As a fan, the refs worry me in this one as well.
As a fan, the refs worry me in this one as well.
When we played Nova at home we went 26-30 from the line. Nova 3 of 5.
Usually home teams get a slight break on calls, but there is no agenda to screw a team.
When we played Nova at home we went 26-30 from the line. Nova 3 of 5.I'm certainly not claiming it's a conscious effort.
Usually home teams get a slight break on calls, but there is no agenda to screw a team.
When we played Nova at home we went 26-30 from the line. Nova 3 of 5.
Usually home teams get a slight break on calls, but there is no agenda to screw a team.
Depends on what those around us do. If Butler and Houston win on Saturday they will leap us. Iowa has two tough road games, I imagine they drop at least one but if they don't they will pass us. Illinois lost at home to Michigan State already and I don't think a win at Rutgers makes up for it. Creighton had a huge win tonight, assuming the beat Depaul at home they will pass us. Texas Tech and LSU don't have enough meat on their schedules to pass us this week so I think the max we drop is to 22. Plus, the teams right above us, Oregon and Colorado, play each other this week. If the game is one sided, the loser likely drops below us. Nova would also drop below us if they somehow tripped up at Temple. West Virginia has already lost once this week and is heading for another likely loss at Baylor. Two losses, even to top 5 teams, is likely enough to drop them below us.
TLDR: At this point, I predict 19 (Butler/Creighton/Houston pass us, Colorado/West Virginia drop below us)
This weekend would be a great time for one of those middle-of-conference-season non-con games that Nova seems to schedule every year. I hate these long layoffs (8 days between DePaul and Butler, 6 between Nova and Creighton)
Depends on what those around us do. If Butler and Houston win on Saturday they will leap us. Iowa has two tough road games, I imagine they drop at least one but if they don't they will pass us. Illinois lost at home to Michigan State already and I don't think a win at Rutgers makes up for it. Creighton had a huge win tonight, assuming the beat Depaul at home they will pass us. Texas Tech and LSU don't have enough meat on their schedules to pass us this week so I think the max we drop is to 22. Plus, the teams right above us, Oregon and Colorado, play each other this week. If the game is one sided, the loser likely drops below us. Nova would also drop below us if they somehow tripped up at Temple. West Virginia has already lost once this week and is heading for another likely loss at Baylor. Two losses, even to top 5 teams, is likely enough to drop them below us.
TLDR: At this point, I predict 19 (Butler/Creighton/Houston pass us, Colorado/West Virginia drop below us)
Believe it or not there is a possibility that we stay at 18 or even move up.d
The only team behind us that should pass us is Creighton.
#19 Butler lost vs Georgetown (we will stay ahead of them)
#20 Houston lost at SMU (we will stay ahead of them)
#21 Iowa lost at Indiana (we will stay ahead of them)
#22 Illinois lost vs MSU and at Rutgers (we will stay ahead of them)
#23 Creighton won at #10 Seton Hall and vs DePaul (they will pass us)
#24 Texas Tech lost at Oklahoma St (we will stay ahead of them)
#25 LSU lost at Alabama (we will stay ahead of them)
#26* MSU won at #22 Illinois but lost vs #9 Maryland (we should stay ahead of them)
#27* Rhode Island lost at #6 Dayton (we will stay ahead of them)
#28* Northern Iowa lost at Loyola Chicago (we will stay ahead of them)
The teams ahead of us that we have a chance of passing:
#16 Colorado lost at #17 Oregon (slim chance we pass them but possible)
#14 West Virginia lost vs #3 Kansas and at #1 Baylor (decent chance we pass them)
#11 Auburn lost at Missouri (slim chance we pass them)
#10 Seton Hall lost vs #23 Creighton and at Providence (decent chance we pass them)
#19. Not bad!
[/quote
Where do u see this. I can't find until noon
#19. Not bad!
[/quote
Where do u see this. I can't find until noon
https://apnews.com/APTop25CollegeBasketballPoll
19Boom!
26 in KenPom.Always laugh at losing to a higher ranked team and then dropping, 5 spots no less.
CBS/Gary Parrish daily poll, MU went from 15 to 20 today after Creighton home loss.
Always laugh at losing to a higher ranked team and then dropping, 5 spots no less.
We were at home and favored to win.
Not to add pressure to the game Saturday but if we win, we will probably stay in the rankings which means we draw even with weekly appearances in the top 25 with ND
http://www.collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/ap/app_total.cfm?sort=totapp&from=1949&to=2020#.Xk2i5GhKiUk
We were at home and favored to win.Not really the point, but true.
This team should not be ranked at all
Why?
This team should not be ranked at allLol they shouldn't even be D1. You clearly aren't very bright.
I believe ever since we became ranked we have lost...but remember “it’s always better be to be ranked”....I said then and will say now...it’s not always the case. Didn’t feel like we were ready and puts a huge target on the back. Won’t have to worry about it on Monday.This is just asinine. Are you seriously suggesting the ranking had anything to do with the losing streak. Get outta here. Maybe you're right. The ranking got to the teams head and they assumed they were all that and didnt try as much. Nova creighton and prov knew we were ranked and tried extra hard to win so that sucks. I agree with you. It's good we will not be ranked next week. We aren't ranked so Georgetown and hall will not try as hard so we have a good chance to win. They will probably not even bother preparing much I mean we aren't even ranked. This is so damn stupid.
Why?
Simply put, some teams aren’t ready to be ranked again and when you put the number on their back it changes the opponent psyche and yours. When you are a fringe ranked team and then play that three game stint, you aren’t going to be ranked for long.....but but but it is ALWAYS better to be ranked. Nah. Certain times it isn’t.
Nope. Add another 2-0 week and we'll surely be ranked.Agreed.
Do we get any votes after the 2-0 start?
Nope. Add another 2-0 week and we'll surely be ranked.
Do we get any votes after the 2-0 start?
Do we get any votes after the 2-0 start?
We won't be ranked this week and I'm not even sure we'll pick up any votes. If we go 2-0 again, we will certainly be receiving votes, though I'm not certain we'll be ranked.
I think we definitely end up ranked. Lets get to 2-0 this week so we can see whose right.
We beat two nobody's. We might get a couple of votes.Have to start somewhere .
This early in the season, going 2-0 against the future #1 draft pick and a top 10 team is practically an auto-entry to the top 25. Rankings are very fluid at this point and signature wins will get you moved up very quickly. I think you will see Virginia Tech ranked or be one of the first teams out despite not being on anyone's radar last week.
All that being said, I don't see us going 2-0 this week. Probably 1-1, but I think 0-2 may be more likely than 2-0.
Oky St. is very beatable, not sure this team is ready to beat Wisky. Potter and Reuvers vs. Garcia and Theo will be very interesting. MU guards
are quicker than Davidson, so plus on that. Both benches pretty good, like Davis, he is a player. Game will be interesting like normal. Gets you
ready for the Big East. No team I have watched so far is that much better than MU, even Villy, no bigs.
No team I have watched so far is that much better than MU, even Villy,
There’s no way Wisconsin is the 4th best team in the country. That lineup screams good not great.
Are you talking about teams that we will play, or college bball in general.
In an unfair bout of sports statistics, Kenpom sez we went from #34 before beating the badgers, to....#34.
And Wisconsin dropped from #7 before losing to...#9.
So I guess MU gets to celebrate knocking them down a little :(
(and yes, I know computer numbers are stupid at this point in the year).
No. Doubt we receive a vote.
How are they calculating home vs away games? If it’s the same as normal that doesn’t make any sense. But some states are going to allow some fans, so I’m not sure how Kenpom or NET will work this year. Eye test will mean more this year than years past.
Had we not lost to OK State, we’d be top 20. But we’re gonna need to rattle off some more wins to get into the top 25.win out this week and sneak in?
No. Doubt we receive a vote.
Seth Davis has us at #25, so we'll at least be in the ARV category.
Is he a part of the polls? I thought he just did that for attention every Sunday night.
He is! Full list of voters is at the below list if interested:
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollsters/2020
Is he a part of the polls? I thought he just did that for attention every Sunday night.Lol.
Marquette #32 Writers Poll #33 Coaches Poll
North Dakota???
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
Thats quite the typo in the coaches poll
Wait, what's it supposed to be?
I'd guess North Carolina.
North Dakota???keep in mind the coaches poll is basically bogus. Coaches hardly follow other teams and often have an assistant, even a manager, submit a list. The AP is the poll to more closely follow, for what it’s worth.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
Thats quite the typo in the coaches poll
keep in mind the coaches poll is basically bogus. Coaches hardly follow other teams and often have an assistant, even a manager, submit a list. The AP is the poll to more closely follow, for what it’s worth.
When do we dust this one off again? 2023?
Thanks Wojo.
When do we dust this one off again? 2023?
Thanks Wojo.
It better be swiffer rather than later.I see what you did there brother Blackheart
After we beat Illinois, UW and win 2 in Charleston ;D
Does not matter, if we do not win an NCAA tournament game.
Does not matter, if we do not win an NCAA tournament game.
A NCAA tournament game doesn’t matter if we do not win a National Championship.
Does any of this matter without Arby's?
A NCAA tournament game doesn’t matter if we do not win a National Championship.#Crapshoot
#Crapshoot
Oh, what the hell ... I'll bump it ...If we win 1 of our next 2, regardless of order, we will be ranked.
Win this event, especially if we beat the Bonnies on Sunday, and we'll be in the 20s on Monday!
If we win 1 of our next 2, regardless of order, we will be ranked.
If we win 1 of our next 2, regardless of order, we will be ranked.
I don't think so ... and I'd rather not have to find out which one of us is right about that!Me too let’s win both!
You dummies. We beat #10 Illinois. We're #9 on Monday, minimum.
Math.
You dummies. We beat #10 Illinois. We're #9 on Monday, minimum.
Math.
There are 7 letters in Ole Miss. And we beat 'em by 6.
7 - 6 = 1.
Amazing how fast Shaka got us to #1 in the country!!
Disagree. But we'll get votes. If we get to 6-0, maybe we get ranked. Would help if we played the Bonnies.
I think we would 100% be ranked at 6-0.
Not that it matters to me much. But I would bet on it.
6-0 will be very tough though.
The fact that this thread has posts from Wojo's final year shows how quickly fortunes can change within a season. Hopefully Shaka doesn't wane as the season finishes.
82! Every time someone bumps this thread with games still left to play before the next rankings we lose the next game! Hopefully we buck the trend but if we don't, the loss is on you ;D
If we win 1 of our next 2, regardless of order, we will be ranked.I still think we’ll be in Monday’s Top 25 regardless of what happens against Bonnies.
Settle down boys.
Settle down boys.
82! Every time someone bumps this thread with games still left to play before the next rankings we lose the next game! Hopefully we buck the trend but if we don't, the loss is on you ;D
I’ll accept all credit for the victory.
YOU’RE WELCOME!!!!
We still got one to play!
Let's revisit what you said, TAMU:
Every time someone bumps this thread with games still left to play before the next rankings we lose the next game! Hopefully we buck the trend but if we don't, the loss is on you
We won the "next game" with an impressive rally that sent the mountain mamas back to almost heaven. We "bucked the trend." So again ...YOU'RE WELCOME!!! YOU'RE WELCOME!!! YOU'RE WELCOME!!! YOU'RE WELCOME!!!
Is it too much to think that a win on Sunday puts MU in the top 10? It’s early so it doesn’t matter too much in the long run, but it would be cool and a good early reward for the team. I’ve gone through the other power conference teams and it looks like MU has the best resume/wins by a pretty significant margin. Feel free to correct me, but I don’t see anyone as being remotely close especially with a win on Sunday.
The spirit of the post was that we lose before the next rankings so you're still on the hook!
Is it too much to think that a win on Sunday puts MU in the top 10? It’s early so it doesn’t matter too much in the long run, but it would be cool and a good early reward for the team. I’ve gone through the other power conference teams and it looks like MU has the best resume/wins by a pretty significant margin. Feel free to correct me, but I don’t see anyone as being remotely close especially with a win on Sunday.If we win I think we will definitely among the top of others getting votes . Probably will be in 24 or 25 . Depends on if the others in the poll ahead lose.
If we win I think we will definitely among the top of others getting votes . Probably will be in 24 or 25 . Depends on if the others in the poll ahead lose.
There’s become such an emphasis on KenPom numbers and MU sits in the 70s on that. We will be left off of a lot of ballots.
Ugh. Just a quick look.
I think we need to beat the Bonnie’s to be ranked.
Who falls out? Maryland and Ohio state?
No one else in the top 25 lost this week.
There’s become such an emphasis on KenPom numbers and MU sits in the 70s on that. We will be left off of a lot of ballots.
I’d guess @Tamu and @brew77 would know. But are we still in that part of Kenpom where the algorithm hasn’t adjusted yet for new players/freshmen?
Ugh. Just a quick look.probably right. Unless they go the CFP approach and just arbitrarily move teams around based on the "eye test"
I think we need to beat the Bonnie’s to be ranked.
Who falls out? Maryland and Ohio state?
No one else in the top 25 lost this week.
Other receiving votes regardless of what happens tomorrow. You also have to look at who in the 20-25 range lost this past week. Currently the only loss in that range was Maryland, they'll certainly drop out, but then you gotta look at who was already receiving votes. Seton Hall are a lock to get in after winning @ #4 Mich. BYU are a lock to get in after destroying #12 Oregon. MSU destroyed Butler, which might get them close. All three were already receiving votes. I don't think #19 Ohio State would drop far enough with a close road loss @X for us to jump them. Same with #17 Tenn and #18 UNC unless they get destroyed by Purdue or Nova. There just won't be enough losses ahead of us to go from no votes to top 25 in a week.
Other receiving votes regardless of what happens tomorrow. You also have to look at who in the 20-25 range lost this past week. Currently the only loss in that range was Maryland, they'll certainly drop out, but then you gotta look at who was already receiving votes. Seton Hall are a lock to get in after winning @ #4 Mich. BYU are a lock to get in after destroying #12 Oregon. MSU destroyed Butler, which might get them close. All three were already receiving votes. I don't think #19 Ohio State would drop far enough with a close road loss @X for us to jump them. Same with #17 Tenn and #18 UNC unless they get destroyed by Purdue or Nova. There just won't be enough losses ahead of us to go from no votes to top 25 in a week.
This early in the season, teams can move a lot more. I think Oregon drops out, as will Ohio State, Maryland, and if we beat them, the Bonnies. I think we get in somewhere from 23-25.
Even if they drop Oregon, OSU, Mary, and StB, I still think the line to get into the top 25 goes BYU, SH, X, MSU. Not to mention that Vtech, I4, Texas Tech, and FSU all had undefeated weeks (although FSU only had one game and are still only a week removed from getting thrashed by UF). I just think it's too much for a one week stretch. The good news is, that if we beat St. B, with all the other Thanksgiving weekend tourney's going on, I think a win in our lone game against Northern Illinois would be enough to get us ranked in two weeks time.
We're getting far more national attention right now than XU, MSU, or anyone other than BYU & Seton Hall that you mention. Beating two ranked teams and two more otherwise undefeated high majors would vault us ahead of almost all the receiving votes category. The advantage of playing an early tournament is we've had 4 statement game opportunities while most everyone else is playing buy games.
This early in the season you don't need teams ahead of you to lose to move up in the rankings. The rankings are fluid enough that if you're playing better than someone ranked, you'll leapfrog them.I agree Tamu. An age-old problem with the polls is; teams don't drop down as long as they keep winning. That makes a hell of a lot more sense later in the year than it does now IMO. The pre-season/early season rankings don't have a lot of current data backing them up. Reputation, previous season results, returning players, new coaches, recruiting classes, all come into play. But there's still an element of wild-ass-guessing. So a 2 6-0 teams are not necessarily an apples to apples comparison. I believe we have a pretty impressive 6-0 record. with a W vs. the Bonnies tomorrow.
Unfortunately, a lot of voters rely heavily on KenPom and other metrics. Wouldn't be surprised if we didn't crack the top 25 because of those numbers.
We will get extra attention due to Shaka and national attention. If we win tomorrow, I think they crack the top 25.
This early in the season you don't need teams ahead of you to lose to move up in the rankings. The rankings are fluid enough that if you're playing better than someone ranked, you'll leapfrog them.
Unfortunately, a lot of voters rely heavily on KenPom and other metrics. Wouldn't be surprised if we didn't crack the top 25 because of those numbers.
We will get extra attention due to Shaka and national attention. If we win tomorrow, I think they crack the top 25.
If we win tomorrow, a lot of people will be up
Nights worried about playing us. Beat another Top 25 team and, yikes!
We will be noticed and that’s what matters.
We are 7th out of the poll, receiving 41 votes. That's 41 more votes than I expected this season, so I'd call that a successful week!
Those who voted for us must be really high on the Bonnies
We are 7th out of the poll, receiving 41 votes. That's 41 more votes than I expected this season, so I'd call that a successful week!
Does anyone have the link where the poll results are broken out by voter? I can't seem to find it.https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/grid/2021/week-3
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/grid/2021/week-3
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/grid/2021/week-3
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/grid/2021/week-3Thanks. Getting big love from writers from Austin and Dayton. I find that humorous.
David Jablonski's submission is... interesting
I looked at the teams ahead of us in the poll. While we have a home game with Northern Illinois this week, which should be a comfortable win (though not based on our first buy games)...if we win the next 2 cupcakes and beat bucky I’d say we’re inThat's 9 teams playing in major events where at least 5 of them will take a loss. That total will likely be higher and some will take multiple losses. There's a chance we will either be ranked or really close to knocking on that door if we handle NIU on Saturday.
- 19 Auburn, 22 UConn, and 31 Michigan State are in Atlantis, where the favorite is Baylor.
- 21 Seton Hall, 23 Florida, and 28 Ohio State are in Fort Myers.
- 25 Xavier and 27 Virginia Tech are at Barclays where the favorite is Memphis.
- 26 Oregon is at Maui in Vegas, where the favorite is probably Houston.
David Jablonski's submission is... interesting
if we win the nextFIFY23 cupcakesand beat buckyI’d say we’re in
FIFY
David Jablonski is high on the boys!
The only good to come out of Dayton.
Another interesting voter is Bob Ballou of Austin who clearly has Shaka on his radar. No votes from Ben Steele. That's fine. I wonder what his philosophy is --- does he wait for a critical mass before joining in? I can see not wanting to be first because of how close he is to the situation.
Here is the direct link to the breakout of the Marquette votes:Luke DeCock still holding a grudge that MU beat his Tar Heels last year.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2021
Clearly knows his hoops 8-)
Luke DeCock still holding a grudge that MU beat his Tar Heels last year.
I can't believe we are ranked behind Indiana in votes, they barely beat St. John's and have had a super weak schedule so far.I4
I can't believe we are ranked behind Indiana in votes, they barely beat St. John's and have had a super weak schedule so far.
This Jablonski kid has a real future.Lunardi has us as a 7 seed in latest projection
Lunardi has us as a 7 seed in latest projection
Honestly, I'll be so hype if we make the tournament this year.
Yup. Keeping my expectations low. Hopes high!
I’d be cool with a lil mid week trip to Dayton even
I’d be cool with a lil mid week trip to Dayton even
Ewe an old, white dentist with mental illness? Udders kneed knot apply, hey?U that bad? Doc feel for you. No wonder, seek help & counseling. Will help with your mind & social issues.
I looked at the teams ahead of us in the poll. While we have a home game with Northern Illinois this week, which should be a comfortable win (though not based on our first buy games)...how are we feeling about this now?That's 9 teams playing in major events where at least 5 of them will take a loss. That total will likely be higher and some will take multiple losses. There's a chance we will either be ranked or really close to knocking on that door if we handle NIU on Saturday.
- 19 Auburn, 22 UConn, and 31 Michigan State are in Atlantis, where the favorite is Baylor.
- 21 Seton Hall, 23 Florida, and 28 Ohio State are in Fort Myers.
- 25 Xavier and 27 Virginia Tech are at Barclays where the favorite is Memphis.
- 26 Oregon is at Maui in Vegas, where the favorite is probably Houston.
how are we feeling about this now?
Bonnies lost by 10 to 1-3 Northern Iowa
After last night's win, Haslametrics has MU at...118?
If Kenpom wasn’t randomly guessing on a team like Marquette at the beginning of the year (whole new team, nothing to go by) and were randomly slated at #20 preseason. Would we still be 78 at this point based on our body of work?
Just curious. I’m not enough of a stats guy. I do see teams like ND who have not even beaten a high major team so far start off at 28 (which seemed ridiculously high) and are still well ahead of us as a reference point to my question.
Notre Dame was ranked where they were because they returned their top 4 players and 5 out of their top 6 players, added a stud transfer from Yale, and a 4-star freshman. KenPom may have also anticipated that the oft injured Robby Carmody (former top 100 recruit) would be returning which has not happened.
KenPom doesn't randomly guess. The formula looks at last season's stats from players currently on the roster and spits out a projection. KenPom seems to over-reward teams that have minimal roster turnover from year to year. Notre Dame was ranked where they were because they returned their top 4 players and 5 out of their top 6 players, added a stud transfer from Yale, and a 4-star freshman. KenPom may have also anticipated that the oft injured Robby Carmody (former top 100 recruit) would be returning which has not happened.???
To answer your question, no, if we were just looking at games this season, we would be ranked higher by KenPom. Sometime in January KenPom only uses data from the current season. Until then, KenPom slowly phases out the data from last season.
KenPom doesn't randomly guess. The formula looks at last season's stats from players currently on the roster and spits out a projection. KenPom seems to over-reward teams that have minimal roster turnover from year to year. Notre Dame was ranked where they were because they returned their top 4 players and 5 out of their top 6 players, added a stud transfer from Yale, and a 4-star freshman. KenPom may have also anticipated that the oft injured Robby Carmody (former top 100 recruit) would be returning which has not happened.
To answer your question, no, if we were just looking at games this season, we would be ranked higher by KenPom. Sometime in January KenPom only uses data from the current season. Until then, KenPom slowly phases out the data from last season.
???
What I'm hearing is that kenpom isn't very useful until at least January. I honestly don't know why anybody quotes it before then.
That’s not what you should be hearing. It’s not as if January arrives and there is huge movement throughout.
What I'm hearing is that kenpom isn't very useful until at least January. I honestly don't know why anybody quotes it before then.
KenPom doesn't randomly guess. The formula looks at last season's stats from players currently on the roster and spits out a projection.OK so rather than a random guess, it's a semi-educated guess. Either way, KenPom at the start of the year had no data on this TEAM and typically a TEAM does not equal the sum of its parts (sometimes more, sometimes less, but it usually never works out as a sum of every player's 'rating' like a video game).
I don't understand fans who get bent out of shape over rankings, especially early in the year. Personally I'd rather be underrated and let our opponents lower their expectations.
I don't understand fans who get bent out of shape over rankings, especially early in the year. Personally I'd rather be underrated and let our opponents lower their expectations.
I wouldn't say that. You just need to understand what it is early in the year and not overly emphasize it. It is also a slow progression towards increased usefulness, not a dramatic switch in January.
I don't understand fans who get bent out of shape over rankings, especially early in the year. Personally I'd rather be underrated and let our opponents lower their expectations.
KenPom doesn't randomly guess. The formula looks at last season's stats from players currently on the roster and spits out a projection. KenPom seems to over-reward teams that have minimal roster turnover from year to year. Notre Dame was ranked where they were because they returned their top 4 players and 5 out of their top 6 players, added a stud transfer from Yale, and a 4-star freshman. KenPom may have also anticipated that the oft injured Robby Carmody (former top 100 recruit) would be returning which has not happened.
To answer your question, no, if we were just looking at games this season, we would be ranked higher by KenPom. Sometime in January KenPom only uses data from the current season. Until then, KenPom slowly phases out the data from last season.
KenPom is never wrong
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/paul-atkinson-1.htmlI just found it amusing that Yale would produce a stud transfer...not doubting he exists, but thank you.
Crystal Ball. Kenpom
🤝
Never Wrong
No longer receiving any votes.
Based on that, I wonder IF we were able to win both K State and UCLA this week, would we be ranked? I imagine it is rare at this point in the season to go from no votes to ranked?
Based on that, I wonder IF we were able to win both K State and UCLA this week, would we be ranked? I imagine it is rare at this point in the season to go from no votes to ranked?RED was unranked/no votes. Won weak-sauce Maui in Vegas and got ranked.
RED was unranked/no votes. Won weak-sauce Maui in Vegas and got ranked.Red has a NET of #18 though it does have 4 Quad 3 and 4 wins. Quad 1 win over Houston in the Maui and a 2-1 Quad 2 record do reflect its rank.
Bump ... because I can!
Seriously, I don't expect us to be ranked, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if we get a few votes after just beating two teams -- including one ranked 16th -- by a combined 60 points.
I don't see a 10-6 team receiving any votes
I predict we will be ranked by 2/1.
Would love that, but @Nova, Hall 2x, @Xavier and @PC is a tough stretch. Not to mention we have to not come out flat against DePaul.
Galway
I knew Wojo was not the guy after how the team responded after beating Nova when they were #1. They came out a few days later and looked like a grade school team vs. Georgetown and that was all I needed to know about Wojo being a game changing coach. My gut tells me that some were concerned about laying an egg last night and are concerned about the same against DePaul. Honestly, that is what being a mid major for almost a decade does to a fanbase. When you have ten guys that are all hungry and buying into a system good things happen.
While they do have a tough schedule ahead of them there is not one game that I do not think they have a chance to win going into the game. The BE has a very nice core of good to very good teams, but none of them are unbeatable. Again, this fan is not fearing laying an egg, but rather, keeping the train rolling.
Galway
I knew Wojo was not the guy after how the team responded after beating Nova when they were #1. They came out a few days later and looked like a grade school team vs. Georgetown and that was all I needed to know about Wojo being a game changing coach. My gut tells me that some were concerned about laying an egg last night and are concerned about the same against DePaul. Honestly, that is what being a mid major for almost a decade does to a fanbase. When you have ten guys that are all hungry and buying into a system good things happen.
While they do have a tough schedule ahead of them there is not one game that I do not think they have a chance to win going into the game. The BE has a very nice core of good to very good teams, but none of them are unbeatable. Again, this fan is not fearing laying an egg, but rather, keeping the train rolling.
Mike,
You may have posted prematurely, and was worried about the jinx. To counter, I will not update the date in the thread title. Going to SH next week, with kharma and Warrior vibes for the W.
Goose,
Looking at forward to manhattans, red meat, and good times with the fellas on Thursday.
82
If they do not have a winning record over those seven games, I will be very disappointed.
I don’t believe in jinxes.
Enjoy your meat.
I don’t believe in jinxes.
Me neither.
Except for starting a SOTG thread before the final buzzer sounds.
That's just asking for us to lose.
I thought we might get a throwaway vote or two this week after the two 30 pt beat downs. But I guess not.
The top 25 is pretty elite this year, it seems. Only 12 schools were in receiving votes this week. There were 18 last year this week.
Meanwhile, the PAC12 has three in the top six. 10 of the top 25 are west of the Mississippi. West coast hoops is back I guess?
Hypothetical question:
What would we be ranked if we swept the rest of the year to selection Sunday?
Hypothetical question:
What would we be ranked if we swept the rest of the year to selection Sunday?
Hypothetical question:
What would we be ranked if we swept the rest of the year to selection Sunday?
Bumpin' for fun and profit ...
We won twice, including over #20 SH. Four-game winning streak, including 100-point win over #23 (then #16) The Provi. Winning record in one of the best conferences, 12-6 overall.
Obviously, The Hall will drop out. Others to lose during the week include #21 Texas, #22 Tennessee and #24 Bama (twice).
I'm guessing we'll receive votes, but probably not enough to get in the Top 25.
We'll just have to beat Nova and X!
Bumpin' for fun and profit ...I agree with this analysis
We won twice, including over #20 SH. Four-game winning streak, including 100-point win over #23 (then #16) The Provi. Winning record in one of the best conferences, 12-6 overall.
Obviously, The Hall will drop out. Others to lose during the week include #21 Texas, #22 Tennessee and #24 Bama (twice).
I'm guessing we'll receive votes, but probably not enough to get in the Top 25.
We'll just have to beat Nova and X!
Others receiving votes. But not many. 6 losses is still 6 losses.
No votes. Not too surprising. 6 losses is just too many.No Votes in the Coaches Poll Either. Although feel we deserved votes.
No Votes in the Coaches Poll Either. Although feel we deserved votes.
Win 1 this week and we'll get a vote or two.
Seems you've been promoted to cult leader!
Wow, you were really triggered.
If mocking silliness and hypocrisy = being triggered, sure.
Ever since you called out your fellow Scoopers for being part of an alleged "cult of low expectations," you've had at least a half-dozen posts in which you've done exactly what you criticized others for.
But we get it ... when you say 2-5 or 1-4 or 1-1 would be acceptable, it's "being realistic" ... but when somebody else says it, it's "settling for mediocrity."
I think most people agreed that the COLE exists here -
I think there is some nuance with long and short term expectations - the latter of course change more quickly than the former.
Sorry, no. I don't think that is the case at all. And the fact that you have to add three paragraphs to justify it shows the weakness of your initial point.
That's totally fine if you don't think there is a COLE
You created a thread to label a bunch of people you don't know whose mindset you also don't know based on something you perceived after one very disappointing loss.
When we win a few in a row, everybody's psyched. When we lose a few in a row, with the third being the way that Creighton game ended, emotions run high.
I've got no beef with you. I actually think your 2-5 call was realistic, albeit on the pessimistic side for a team that just had 3 very nice wins ... but I couldn't resist pointing out what seemed an obvious double-standard on your part.
And "cult" is a very charged word, best reserved for those who blindly follow a false god.
Yeah, people really latched onto "cult" - it was meant to be a bit hyperbolistic and tongue in cheek.
I just don't like people letting our coaches off the hook when they screw up. They get paid way too much money for that. That's what people did with Wojo and why some people, 5 and 6 years in, still thought he was going to lead us to the promised land. Shaka had a bad game - it happens to everyone - I don't expect it will be part of a trend and I'm more excited about our program now than at any point since April 4th 2003 (Buzz's success was great, but he was so creepy it always seemed like it was a poisoned chalice). But I'm also not going to blindly worship Shaka irrespective of his results on (and off) the court. He has the tools at his disposal to get us back to national relevance quickly, and, other than CU, I'm very satisfied with the job he's done. We're trending in the right direction and, at least as of today, exceeding expectations. But if we should, say, lay a complete egg in February barring some injury or something (where have I seen that movie before?) that would be cause for concern.
Except for maybe 2 or 3 Scoopers -- and I can only really remember 1 -- everybody who posted after the Creighton game said Shaka blew it.
I don't know how many Scoopers "blindly worship" Shaka, but one who has been extremely high on him from Day 1, Goose, also was very disappointed with him after that game. IIRC, Goose even blamed Shaka, at least in part, for one of the earlier defeats.
Many of us took the stance that a coach in his first year with a down program and a roster of largely unproven players probably wouldn't have a great Year 1, record-wise. That seems pretty reasonable to me, but I can see how others might say those expectations were too low. It's a difference of opinion.
I am thrilled that Shaka's first Marquette team has exceeded expectations -- apparently even yours!
If this team laid an egg in February, I would have zero concern moving forward. I would be very disappointed, but hardly concerned. This team/program has passed my eye test with flying colors. I have said from day one that Shaka gets no wiggle room from me. This season has already shown me enough of the system, type of player Shaka likes and his coaching chops to call the campaign a success. Again, I would be disappointed and pissed if this team does not get in the tournament, but I would no concern about the future of the program.
I would be the first guy bashing a collapse, if it happened, but only because they put themselves in position to play in March. Overall future of the program is the best it has been in a long, long time. I think Shaka is here 10+ years and that puts us in an even better position. Buzz and Crean did a very good and good job, but they were not going to be here for the long haul.
Again, I would be disappointed and pissed if this team does not get in the tournament, but I would no concern about the future of the program.
Man it would be great to get that win vs. X and crack it. After the WI loss I thought we had probably missed our best chance to get there in season. Great to have a very legit chance to get there again.
Well, we have certainly proven that we can beat any team in the Big East on any court.
Also, Xavier barely got by DePaul tonight, so they are vulnerable.
Xavier has not been playing very well for weeks. They are scrappy, but Freemantle is a shell of what he was last year, and Scruggs has not been very good. Odom had a career game v MU, but hasn’t done a whole lot since. They can’t be a real confident team right now.
Let’s avoid the Wojo post-big win slide. Should be a fired up Fiserv on Sunday.
Guys, you never bump the thread when there is still a game to play before the rankings. We're 0 for like forever when that happens
Guys, you never bump the thread when there is still a game to play before the rankings. We're 0 for like forever when that happens
Sir, were 0-1 under Shaka. We don't talk about the demon WOJO
I say 20 or higher if we take care of business Sunday.
The folks who said we'd be underdogs in all of these games didn't count on us maybe, you know, winning a couple/few of them.
Will be interesting to see how we do as favorites against a good team.
As a matter of fact, I know they did, since no one voted MU would go 0-6 in the 6 game gauntlet and over 80% voted 2 wins or more. I was pleasantly surprised with that optimism, shows that Shaka fever is growing.
You make a lot of great points but this isn’t one of them.
I think plenty of people that said we would be underdogs in all of these games counted on us to win a few of them.
As a matter of fact, I know they did, since no one voted MU would go 0-6 in the 6 game gauntlet and over 80% voted 2 wins or more. I was pleasantly surprised with that optimism, shows that Shaka fever is growing.
On the second point about seeing how we do as favorites against a good team, it may take some time. I’m not sure MU will be favored Sunday- could be close to a pickem but likely a slight dog, maybe a slight favorite with this win- and I don’t think MU will be favored @SH, @Prov, v Nova, @Uconn.
After that Butler, GTown, Butler, DePaul along with @CU and vStJ. Either teams that aren’t good or probably another underdog at Creighton.
If we dance we might be favored versus a good team though, so I can’t wait for that!
Win Sunday and we are 23
I say 20 or higher if we take care of business Sunday.
The folks who said we'd be underdogs in all of these games didn't count on us maybe, you know, winning a couple/few of them.
Will be interesting to see how we do as favorites against a good team.
Texas, Loyola, Illinois, Iowa St should all fall out
How was Loyola ranked in the first place? Name and racking up some wins against bad teams?
Xavier is a two point road favorite.
Amazing.
It’ll be fun to kick another favorite’s arse.
7-game winning streak with 4 wins over ranked teams, including one at Finneran, where Nova never loses. I’m thinking we move into the Top 20.
Thanks for jinxing us everybody. Everytime this thread is bumped early, Marquette loses.
So no exact ranking from Ben Steele yet, but there is this:
https://twitter.com/BenSteeleMJS/status/1485357461888507905
oddsshark computer model has MU-76.4 xavier-68.1 ;)
picks and parleys picks MU 77-74 ;D
Xavier is 1-5 ATS in its last 6
The OVER has cashed in 4 of the Musketeers last 7
Marquette is 5-0 ATS in its last 5
The OVER has cashed in 4 of the Golden Eagles last 7
winners and whiners picks MU +2 ;D
pickdawgz likes MU ;D
sportschatplace MU +2 ;D
docsports picks xZavier >:(
:) ROCKET sports says MU by 5 ;)
I say 20 or higher if we take care of business Sunday.
Nice to be ranked.
More important is to keep playing good basketball.
Glad to see no let down after the Villanova game.
Seton Hall being a very tough game on the road hopefully will keep Marquette with a sharp edge.
Nice to see us under consideration but it really doesn’t matter.
Getting to the NCAA does.
That said, I’m betting between 21 and 25
Nice to be ranked.
More important is to keep playing good basketball.
Glad to see no let down after the Villanova game.
Seton Hall being a very tough game on the road hopefully will keep Marquette with a sharp edge.
Nice to see us under consideration but it really doesn’t matter.
Getting to the NCAA does.
That said, I’m betting between 21 and 25
Nice to see us under consideration but it really doesn’t matter.
Getting to the NCAA does.
That said, I’m betting between 21 and 25
Good news: trank says we're about 90% now on the tourney part
TAMU
I was off by a week. This team is a joy to watch and time to raise the bar for this season.
The next four games are really tough. Three out of four on the road, with a Nova team with revenge on their mind at home. Then another away game at Butler, which can’t be classified as a sure win.
After Butler game standings will be when I get worried/excited about rankings, NET, etc. Should be an enthusiastic two weeks to say the least and hope the momentum continues.
I really liked what Shaka said in the post-game interview, which was something along the lines of "I don't care what we're ranked in January, I care what we're ranked in March". And I hope he rubs that mentality onto the guys, keeping us on this winning streak.
Yep. to paraphrase Shaka from the post-game radio show, I care about how we are ranked in March than how we are ranked in January.
Of course it doesn't "matter." But ranked teams not only get to the NCAA but don't have to sweat the bubble and get relatively higher seeds.
Plus, it's fun to see Marquette with a number next to our name on ESPN's bottom line.
We Are Marquette!
Nice to see us under consideration but it really doesn’t matter.
This is wrong. It does matter. When you're ranked, your name and score is on the crawl of every sports network. Your team is the subject of podcasts and halftime shows. You get better TV placement. You are invited to better non-con tourneys. It makes recruiting easier. There are a ton of benefits, both short and long term, to being ranked. It matters. It unquestionably matters.
We might be ranked this week, but the real gauntlet is coming.
Kinda reluctant to update.
Kharma.
Goose, what say you?
82
I was thinking at the game today about when the students chanted “we’re #1” and it was factual. Being ranked tomorrow is just another brick in the foundation.
On a sidebar, I have always felt the resurgence of a program or team is the most exciting part of the process. I truly hope that everyone appreciates and enjoys what is happening to the program.
Jake
It really is pretty simple at this point. Keep playing first rate defense and take your chances. I have little doubt they will play tough D the rest way and confident that will let put them in position to get the W.
I really liked what Shaka said in the post-game interview, which was something along the lines of "I don't care what we're ranked in January, I care what we're ranked in March".
I really liked what Shaka said in the post-game interview, which was something along the lines of "I don't care what we're ranked in January, I care what we're ranked in March".
First ballot released is from Seth Davis.
MU checking in at #19. Providence, Nova, and UConn all checking in at 15, 16, and 17. Xavier at 20.
Borges has MU at 25. Two for two on the ballots I’ve seen.
First ballot released is from Seth Davis.
MU checking in at #19. Providence, Nova, and UConn all checking in at 15, 16, and 17. Xavier at 20.
Seems a little high for The Provi and X, but that's fine. I get a kick out of us being ranked behind a team we beat by 649 points.
They are 16-2, 6-1 and MU is 14-6, 6-3.
We whooped em but complete body of work they should be ranked ahead of Marquette.
Get a chance to prove we should be ranked ahead of them in 6 days at the Dunk doe!
Sorry to be that guy… can someone please post the link where we can see everyone’s votes. Thanks!
We're on the kind of run that allows us to leapfrog the teams in front of us, even if they didn't lose this week...but because some voters only move teams up when the teams in front of them lose...Here's what it looks like ahead of us:
15. Iowa State (665): L @Texas Tech, L vs TCU
16. USC (618): W @Colorado, W @Utah
17. Illinois (521): L vs Purdue, L @Maryland
18. Texas Tech (509): W vs Iowa St, W vs West Virginia
19. Ohio State (465): W vs IUPUI
20. Xavier (427): W @DePaul, L @Marquette
21: Providence (350): W vs Georgetown, W vs Butler
22: Loyola-Illinois (193): W vs Evansville, L @Missouri St
23: Texas (185): L vs Kansas St, W vs Oklahoma St
24: Tennessee (98): W @Vandy, W vs LSU
25: Connecticut (73): W vs Butler, W @Butler
ORV1: Iowa (56): L @Rutgers, W vs Penn St
ORV2: BYU (50): W vs San Diego, W vs Portland
ORV3: Davidson (34): W @VCU, W @Fordham
ORV4: Alabama (26): W vs LSU, W vs Missouri
ORV5: San Diego St (25): L vs Boise St
ORV6: Miami-Fl (21): W vs North Carolina, L vs Florida St
ORV7: Oregon (15): No games
ORV8: West Virginia (14): L vs Baylor, L @Texas Tech
ORV9: Colorado St (13): W vs New Mexico, W vs Air Force
ORV10: Texas A&M (10): L vs Kentucky, L @Arkansas
ORV11: Oklahoma (7): L vs Kansas, L vs Baylor
ORV12: TCU (4): L @ Oklahoma St, W @Iowa St
t-ORV 13: Indiana (2): W vs Purdue, L vs Michigan
t-ORV 13: North Carolina (2): L @Miami-Fl, L @Wake
I'd divide them up as:
Definitely Pass: North Carolina, Indiana, TCU, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Colorado St, West Virginia, Oregon, Miami (FL), San Diego St, Iowa
Possibly Pass: Davidson, BYU, UConn, Texas, Loyola (IL), Xavier, Illinois, Iowa State
Won't Pass: Alabama, Tennessee, Providence, Ohio State, Texas Tech, USC
I'm going to guess #23
Sorry to be that guy… can someone please post the link where we can see everyone’s votes. Thanks!
I’ll be “that guy”, it makes zero difference to me if we’re ranked/not ranked.
Fox used to have a really great top 25 site that showed you the schedules for the week (and results) for top 25. Wish that still existed
Thanks for tracking down, TAMU
So far
Seth Davis 19
Chad Leiatikow 19
Clayton collier 20
Borges 25
Carino 20
Berman 16
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/
I don’t need a hug, there are statistical/analytical rankings updated daily/hourly that tell you how good/bad MU is. I don’t personally need to know what CJ Moore or Brian Hamilton think of MU to validate things for me. Dickie V has probably watched 20 minutes of MU ball all year. If he thinks MU is #20, cool.Being ranked in the top 25 is an achievement. A lower level achievement in the grand scheme of possible achievements but one to note nonetheless. It’s not a “hug”.
The AP vote is for fun, if you enjoy it, that’s great, more power to you. AP vote has no bearing at all on postseason play. If MU is ranked #20 this week, that doesn’t mean they should show up as a 5 seed in tournament projections this week. Same silliness that exists if unranked Seton Hall “upsets” #20 MU on Wednesday night, even though SH is -3.5.
If you like it, cool, have fun. I’ll go back to yelling at kids to get off my lawn.
Being ranked in the top 25 is an achievement. A lower level achievement in the grand scheme of possible achievements but one to note nonetheless. It’s not a “hug”.
You really thought you did something lol
Being ranked in the top 25 is an achievement. A lower level achievement in the grand scheme of possible achievements but one to note nonetheless. It’s not a “hug”.
You really thought you did something lol
I don’t need a hug, there are statistical/analytical rankings updated daily/hourly that tell you how good/bad MU is. I don’t personally need to know what CJ Moore or Brian Hamilton think of MU to validate things for me. Dickie V has probably watched 20 minutes of MU ball all year. If he thinks MU is #20, cool.
The AP vote is for fun, if you enjoy it, that’s great, more power to you. AP vote has no bearing at all on postseason play. If MU is ranked #20 this week, that doesn’t mean they should show up as a 5 seed in tournament projections this week. Same silliness that exists if unranked Seton Hall “upsets” #20 MU on Wednesday night, even though SH is -3.5.
If you like it, cool, have fun. I’ll go back to yelling at kids to get off my lawn.
This is wrong. It does matter. When you're ranked, your name and score is on the crawl of every sports network. Your team is the subject of podcasts and halftime shows. You get better TV placement. You are invited to better non-con tourneys. It makes recruiting easier. There are a ton of benefits, both short and long term, to being ranked. It matters. It unquestionably matters.
Notoriety is huge. It gets our brand in the national spotlight. It also means we’re playing great ball. This is important.
So far
Berman 16
Seth Davis 19
Chad Leiatikow 19
Clayton collier 20
Carino 20
Dickie V 22
Borges 25
We were ranked numerous times under WojoChallenge flag
Challenge flagAfter further review - Wojo’s teams were ranked 17 times during his 7 year tenure. 15 of those instances came consecutively during the same season in which we did not hold a ranking at season’s end. Wojo’s teams ran the gamut unranked for 5 of his 7 total seasons.
Yes
I fully understand why some fans may not put much stock in the rankings, or why gamblers really wouldn't care, but in terms of program impact and perception, the AP Top-25 still matters more than the analytics sites or the NET.
And this comes from someone who routinely studies both the analytics sites in the NET. Tangible value, give me metrics, perception and program building value, it's the Polls and it's not even close.
After further review - Wojo’s teams were ranked 17 times during his 7 year tenure. 15 of those instances came consecutively during the same season in which we did not hold a ranking at season’s end. Wojo’s teams ran the gamut unranked for 5 of his 7 total seasons.
Therefore Wojo’s teams were not ranked numerous times, the call on the field is overturned.
Pretty sure the person who threw the challenge flag doesn't get to rule on the call.
17 may not be as many as we'd all like, but as a neutral party, it would qualify as numerous. I'm sure we are all hoping for it to be even more numerous during Shaka's tenure. Call on the field stands.
I fully understand why some fans may not put much stock in the rankings, or why gamblers really wouldn't care, but in terms of program impact and perception, the AP Top-25 still matters more than the analytics sites or the NET.
And this comes from someone who routinely studies both the analytics sites in the NET. Tangible value, give me metrics, perception and program building value, it's the Polls and it's not even close.
I fully understand why some fans may not put much stock in the rankings, or why gamblers really wouldn't care, but in terms of program impact and perception, the AP Top-25 still matters more than the analytics sites or the NET.
And this comes from someone who routinely studies both the analytics sites in the NET. Tangible value, give me metrics, perception and program building value, it's the Polls and it's not even close.
The top 25 is important in the sense that all publicity is good publicity. Really, though, it’s for the mouth breathers to brag about
If you’re listening to a college hoops podcast, you’re a fan who knows what’s going on.
I would respectfully say if it was 1998, then yes, I’d absolutely agree with you.
A big time hoops fan, a recruit, AAU coach, etc., they know if you’re good, and the AP poll helps solidify that. I think data and notoriety have evolved with how we consume college basketball has radically changed over the last 25 years. The casual college hoops fan is a dying breed. If you’re listening to a college hoops podcast, you’re a fan who knows what’s going on.
I love that MU is good, I’m not trying to piss on the AP poll just to be a jerk, I just think we collectively have evolved as college hoops fans.
Being ranked is just a byproduct of winning. I think you and brew are exaggerating the importance of being ranked a bit. Just keep winning and nothing else matters.
We were ranked numerous times under Wojo and its didn't matter much when we folded up our tents at the end of the year.
To say being ranked doesn’t matter is just foolish. Rankings are published/posted on every local/regional sports site in the country. The Top 25 scores are what gets scrolled, reported and noticed. Maybe they’ve taken a back seat in terms of seeding but for alumni, national recognition, school pride and to an extent (even if minimal), recruiting; being ranked can only be viewed as a positive.
Here's where your argument falls apart for me. Yes, the fans that are dialed in know what's going on, but there are a lot of fans that only tune in after football season and the national podcasts aren't talking about teams 26-50 very often. I listen to Parish & Norlander, Field of 68 After Dark, DTF, and 3-Man-Weave regularly and they simply don't spend time talking about teams outside the rankings. It makes sense, the teams on the outside aren't as hyped and the matchups aren't as widely publicized or viewed.
For instance, TCU, Mississippi State, San Diego State, and West Virginia all seem to be solid teams that are fighting for tourney berths, but they rarely get publicity unless they are playing someone who is ranked. Sure, they might be good, but not good enough that anyone cares about them on their own merits. Marquette right now is similar. Our attention hasn't come because of who we are but because of who we beat. Take down #16 Providence, #20 Seton Hall, #11 Villanova, and #20 Xavier and you get discussion because of the numbers next to those names. Then once we put a number next to our name, we are part of the discussion regardless.
Just because we aren't casual college basketball fans doesn't mean the casual college basketball fan doesn't exist. With college football done and the NFL winding down, a lot more eyeballs will be coming our way simply because other than the NBA there isn't a lot else going on. Sports fans are sports fans and more and more tune in once the calendar turns from January to February and March, and being ranked is something that sports fans who love March and filling out brackets but aren't engaged from November on are easily able to pay attention to.
And having your name on that scroll and your highlights on the sports channels every time you play matters. That only happens consistently when one of the teams is ranked. If you're one of them, that means it happens every time.
My question is, once we are ranked, do we lose our underdog mentality? Does the anger over the Cretin loss burn as bright after the sixth win as it did after the first or second? Or are these guys just so much better than they were early in the season that it doesn't matter? I'm crossing my fingers and picking the latter, with them going from "I'm mad" to "I believe!"
Being ranked is just a byproduct of winning. I think you and brew are exaggerating the importance of being ranked a bit. Just keep winning and nothing else matters.
We were ranked numerous times under Wojo and its didn't matter much when we folded up our tents at the end of the year.
Why did you bring Wojo into the conversation? This wasn't a discussion about Wojo. LMAO.
More importantly, this week will be the 378 week in Marquette history that the team will be ranked by the AP Poll, drawing exactly even with ND, who yes indeed sucks.Yes indeed, No Dick sucks.
http://collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/ap/app_total.cfm#.Ye69qNDMKUk
No need to name call Mom. ;D
Dukie V has us at 22, and lists us as team of the week....
https://www.espn.com/espn/dickvitale/story/_/id/33135522/gonzaga-chet-holmgren-dick-vitale-diaper-dandy-week-auburn-no-1-vitale-top-25
TEAM OF THE WEEK: Marquette. Shaka Smart's team beat Villanova and Xavier.
We consume similar products, so you know as well as I do that “what’s wrong with North Carolina?” would get far more of a discussion than “#20 Marquette/Seton Hall”. You’re right that the casual sports fan will float in late Feb, and obviously March, I just don’t think if I went up to a casual college hoops fan this afternoon and said “is Providence ranked?” that they would have any clue.
Being on SVP for 18 seconds at 11:45 pm at night is cool (I’m not being a dick here). Does it matter really though to anyone outside of Marquette? Probably not. If you’re a college hoops fan, you knew that happened half a day ago. The scroll is a dinosaur.
Because I was contrasting to a different era. Sorry you got triggered. I will send out a warning next time.
Dukie V has us at 22, and lists us as team of the week....Did Vitale even write that? Sure seems pretty subdued.
https://www.espn.com/espn/dickvitale/story/_/id/33135522/gonzaga-chet-holmgren-dick-vitale-diaper-dandy-week-auburn-no-1-vitale-top-25
TEAM OF THE WEEK: Marquette. Shaka Smart's team beat Villanova and Xavier.
To say being ranked doesn’t matter is just foolish. Rankings are published/posted on every local/regional sports site in the country. The Top 25 scores are what gets scrolled, reported and noticed. Maybe they’ve taken a back seat in terms of seeding but for alumni, national recognition, school pride and to an extent (even if minimal), recruiting; being ranked can only be viewed as a positive.
My question is, once we are ranked, do we lose our underdog mentality? Does the anger over the Cretin loss burn as bright after the sixth win as it did after the first or second? Or are these guys just so much better than they were early in the season that it doesn't matter? I'm crossing my fingers and picking the latter, with them going from "I'm mad" to "I believe!"
You realize that the only people here who get triggered about any "contrasting to a different era"/reference to Wojo are those of you who were Projos. Comparing our current team/coach to the previous one(s) isn't some devious plan to tweak Projos.
I was just surprised to see you interject his name into this thread after you got triggered yesterday about me contrasting a potential first round NCAA loss by Shaka this year to the dynamics of a first round loss under Wojo.
FWIW - I feel being ranked in the Top 25 has value for the reasons Brew and 82 have articulated here.
I run a bracket pool with 400 guys. 380 of them would know more about national rankings. 19 others and I would know more about NET, Pomeroy, etc.
I run a bracket pool with 400 guys. 380 of them would know more about national rankings. 19 others and I would know more about NET, Pomeroy, etc.
Is there a buy-in? Send out the invite!
Marquette is ranked #25 in CBS Sports Gary Parrish’s Top 25 and 1
Marquette is ranked #25 in CBS Sports Gary Parrish’s Top 25 and 1
He just updated. We’re number 20 and the feature story.Thank You
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-marquette-making-moves-in-top-25-and-1-after-winning-sixth-straight-game/
Parish just posted today's update. We are up to #20 in the Top 25 and 1 and he had a lengthy excerpt about us at the top of the article.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-marquette-making-moves-in-top-25-and-1-after-winning-sixth-straight-game/
Maybe someone has already figured this out, but I wonder if there has ever been another team that went from not even receiving votes straight into the top 20? If there was, I'd imagine it would have been a blue blood on a down year coming off of a week of big wins. Which only means one thing: we're a blue blood!
I am a little surprised that 20 voters left us off their ballot entirely.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2021
Maybe someone has already figured this out, but I wonder if there has ever been another team that went from not even receiving votes straight into the top 20? If there was, I'd imagine it would have been a blue blood on a down year coming off of a week of big wins. Which only means one thing: we're a blue blood!
I am a little surprised that 20 voters left us off their ballot entirely.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2021
That's Parish's ranking, he does the top-25 and one (so top-26) every day but doesn't actually have an AP vote. 22 in the AP rankings.
Obviously all coaches entered different circumstances but just for fun I looked at how many games it took past MU coaches to get their team ranked.
Data from www.muoverload.com
Shaka - 20
Wojo - 133
Buzz - 0
Crean - 62
Deane - 46
O'Neil - 102
Dukiet - Never
Majerus - Never
Raymonds - 0
McGuire - 103
I'd divide them up as:
Definitely Pass: North Carolina, Indiana, TCU, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Colorado St, West Virginia, Oregon, Miami (FL), San Diego St, Iowa
Possibly Pass: Davidson, BYU, UConn, Texas, Loyola (IL), Xavier, Illinois, Iowa State
Won't Pass: Alabama, Tennessee, Providence, Ohio State, Texas Tech, USC
I'm going to guess #23
Close but no cigar. Really didn't think we would leapfrog Bama with them winning twice and knocking off LSU.
6-7 sophomore forward Justin Lewis, 6-5 super senior guard Darryl Morsell, and 6-3 senior guard Greg Elliott.
Obviously all coaches entered different circumstances but just for fun I looked at how many games it took past MU coaches to get their team ranked.
Data from www.muoverload.com
Shaka - 20
Wojo - 133
Buzz - 0
Crean - 62
Deane - 46
O'Neil - 102
Dukiet - Never
Majerus - Never
Raymonds - 0
McGuire - 103
Would be interesting to know how many returning players/recruits each coach had. Obviously Hank and Buzz are outliers in that regard, but what Shaka has done with an almost entirely rebuilt team is nothing short of remarkable.
Would be interesting to know how many returning players/recruits each coach had. Obviously Hank and Buzz are outliers in that regard, but what Shaka has done with an almost entirely rebuilt team is nothing short of remarkable.
I'm not. We have the most losses of any ranked team with six, and I believe there are only four other five loss teams. I am surprised we made the poll but it's deserved and I'm thrilled that we did.
27 coaches poll
27 coaches poll
*freshman Lewis & junior Greg
I'm not. We have the most losses of any ranked team with six, and I believe there are only four other five loss teams. I am surprised we made the poll but it's deserved and I'm thrilled that we did.
I am a little surprised that 20 voters left us off their ballot entirely.If you want to unnecessarily raise your blood pressure, look to see who those 20 schmucks had on their ballet.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2021
Despite wins over 4 top 25 and one Recieving votes.
Hope the team can use that disrespect as fire this week as opposed to getting too high from the AP 22
27coachesEquipment Managers' poll
If you want to unnecessarily raise your blood pressure, look to see who those 20 schmucks had on their ballet.
I was first mad at Jesse Newell for putting Texas at 16, but then I saw he had Wisconsin at 25, so it evens out, and the Dayton writer clearly has Marquette envy.
Despite wins over 4 top 25 and one Recieving votes.
Hope the team can use that disrespect as fire this week as opposed to getting too high from the AP 22
If you want to unnecessarily raise your blood pressure, look to see who those 20 schmucks had on their ballet.
I was first mad at Jesse Newell for putting Texas at 16, but then I saw he had Wisconsin at 25, so it evens out, and the Dayton writer clearly has Marquette envy.
Someone compile a list of the twitter handles?
Newell basicallytooktakes KenPom top 25 and submitted it to the AP.
FIFY
I agree. If you ascend into the lower part of the Top 25 during the season, it does not afford a slip as there are a bunch of other teams ready to take that place.
I'd want to know receiving votes as well because I've always thought it's easier to get into the Top 25 if you start there than breaking into it from the outside.
This is true. I also think it’s true that the overwhelming majority of college hoops fans never visit a message board and never listen to a college hoops podcast.
Would be interesting to know how many returning players/recruits each coach had. Obviously Hank and Buzz are outliers in that regard, but what Shaka has done with an almost entirely rebuilt team is nothing short of remarkable.
To be fair to all prior coaches, Shaka is the first MU coach to be able to recruit transfers who would be immediately available. And the grad transfer rule was only implemented in 2006, so anyone before Buzz didn't have that option either. Look at what Morsell, Kuath and Kolek bring to the table, and realize that no coach prior to Buzz would have been able to use them in Year 1.
I would respectfully say if it was 1998, then yes, I’d absolutely agree with you.
A big time hoops fan, a recruit, AAU coach, etc., they know if you’re good, and the AP poll helps solidify that. I think data and notoriety have evolved with how we consume college basketball has radically changed over the last 25 years. The casual college hoops fan is a dying breed. If you’re listening to a college hoops podcast, you’re a fan who knows what’s going on.
I love that MU is good, I’m not trying to piss on the AP poll just to be a jerk, I just think we collectively have evolved as college hoops fans.
Obviously all coaches entered different circumstances but just for fun I looked at how many games it took past MU coaches to get their team ranked.
Data from www.muoverload.com
Shaka - 20
Wojo - 133
Buzz - 0
Crean - 62
Deane - 46
O'Neil - 102
Dukiet - Never
Majerus - Never
Raymonds - 0
McGuire - 103
To be fair to all prior coaches, Shaka is the first MU coach to be able to recruit transfers who would be immediately available. And the grad transfer rule was only implemented in 2006, so anyone before Buzz didn't have that option either. Look at what Morsell, Kuath and Kolek bring to the table, and realize that no coach prior to Buzz would have been able to use them in Year 1.
It used to be the top 20; not sure when they increased it to the top 25. I know it was the top 20 during Al's time.
To be fair to all prior coaches, Shaka is the first MU coach to be able to recruit transfers who would be immediately available. And the grad transfer rule was only implemented in 2006, so anyone before Buzz didn't have that option either. Look at what Morsell, Kuath and Kolek bring to the table, and realize that no coach prior to Buzz would have been able to use them in Year 1.
Thank you for this contribution, however you should delete this post as it will trigger some here. Any references to past coaches must be muzzled and immediately suppressed.Yes the cancel culture is alive and well on Scoop.
No need to name call Mom. ;D
To be fair to all prior coaches, Shaka is the first MU coach to be able to recruit transfers who would be immediately available. And the grad transfer rule was only implemented in 2006, so anyone before Buzz didn't have that option either. Look at what Morsell, Kuath and Kolek bring to the table, and realize that no coach prior to Buzz would have been able to use them in Year 1.
That's the Saint Paulite in me, TAMU. Thinking about that old Catholic High School that produced pros like Paul Molitor and Joe Mauer.
It used to be the top 20; not sure when they increased it to the top 25. I know it was the top 20 during Al's time.
Funny, all I remember during Al's tenure is the top 10- did they really list a top 20 then?First world problem... I can only think Alabama football fans believe there is only the Top 5.
Didn’t want to start a new thread with this, and now that the monkey is off the back we can speak freely here…
In terms of top 25 ranking I think tomorrows game at the Dunk might be the most important of MUs season.
7 wins in a row, a win @#17 would make it 8. Looking at the top 25 I honestly see a 6/7 spot jump to #15 with a victory.
That would be huge because in that case B2b losses to Nova and UConn would likely still keep Marquette in the top 25 before the schedule gets easier (although I don’t love the trip to Butler after those).
Barring a letdown to end the season that could mean a top 5 seed and that’s huge for the ability to win a game in the dance.
A loss tomorrow- barring a massive blowout- still keeps MU in the top 25 for now IMO but a loss to Nova then pushes MU out with a trip to UConn in the wings.
That could then send Marquette back to the 9/10 seed range as the season winds down into March.
I know AP ranking doesn’t affect seeding, metrics play a much bigger role, but staying in the eye of the committee as a top 25 team for several weeks leading up to selection Sunday- even with a bad loss here or there or early exit in the BET- could be VERY beneficial for the overall outcome of the season.
Lets Dunk on the Friars
Those rankings have no impact on tournament seeding
Until the NCAA eliminates the selection committee and solely uses a computer model, then everything that can possibly influence a human being has an impact on seeding.
The rankings might not be formally used in any formula, but the committee members know who's ranked (and who's not), and it's hard to believe that data wouldn't influence their thinking.
Quick check it appears we went up 5 spots for Vitale, up 1 spot for Seth Davis, and up 4 spots for Rothstein.
Marquette checking in at 24... #BeatNova
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
Yup, 24, still ranked
MU has the most losses (7) and is still ranked.
Marquette checking in at 24... #BeatNovaThanks awesome news
#24 in coaches
So we weren't ranked by the coaches even after winning at Nova, where nobody wins, and beating X ... but now, after losing, we are ranked.
I guess information arrives late to the sports information directors who fill out coaches' ballots.
#24 in coachesThanks Wow #24 in Both polls awesome
Nice to be ranked.
Big week ahead with Villanova and UCONN.
Go Marquette!
Top ten by 2/21.
Top ten by 2/21.
82
Only my son, but great company. I love seeing my grown sons enjoy quality basketball and falling back in love with the program.
Why do people hate on others who are interested in the rankings? I realize it is all relative but it is a cool way to look at what the perception is about MU as well as how we'd match up against other ranked teams. If you don't care about the rankings why post on this thread.
Anyways, I'll step off the soapbox and say 23-24 is our ranking.
We're gonna be higher than that, we are 24 right now and just beat the 12. To help with our cause Alabama just lost who was CBS had as the 26, so I personally think we'll be 20-17.
Don’t think it’ll be a massive jump like people think. My guess is 20 or 21
I blame myself. I wanted to get to that game to accept your largess ... and of course to watch our alma mater win again!
But I'm glad you got to spend that time with your son. As you said, it's a blast doing stuff with our adult kids. We were loving but pretty strict parents when they were growing up -- we were their parents, not their buddies -- but it's cool that we're now "friends" with them. And both are huge Marquette fans even though neither went there.
We're going to the NMD game, and our son is driving up from Chicago to join us. Looking forward to the entire experience so much!
Dont really care about the ranking to be honest. If we can beat Uconn next week and hold pat against the teams we should be we could really be looking at a Ncaa tournament 2 seed. This team has the best resume in college basketball
Don’t think it’ll be a massive jump like people think. My guess is 20 or 21
I believe the Shaka factor benefits our ranking moving forward. We are getting a ton of national exposure and have a very well known coach. In addition, we are definitely becoming a talked about program and that helps make the idiots voting have an easier job voting MU.
Jake
We are getting a lot of air time on ESPN, especially SVP. I am sure the equipment managers are frantically looking up MU on Google. We were on probation for seven years and those guys were in middle school the last time we were on the national scene.
Rankings help.
OUr game got espn highlight coverage pretty quickly into SVP's show last night.
And its always on the bottom ticker. Unfortunately caused me to continously see our Providence loss when trying to watch the WIld game Sunday night.
But there is nice exposure from it.
Jake
We are getting a lot of air time on ESPN, especially SVP. I am sure the equipment managers are frantically looking up MU on Google. We were on probation for seven years and those guys were in middle school the last time we were on the national scene.
“Probation” is being ranked numerous times, putting players in the NBA (including in lottery), and developing a Wooden Award finalist? Not to mention who knows how 2020 tourney would’ve gone but for Covid.Talk about low standards. It isn’t a special achievement within a seven year coaching span at Marquette to have a few ranked teams and send three players for cups of coffee in the NBA. That’s the bare minimum. Expectations are higher at MU, as they should be.
This narrative that Wojo’s era was a complete failure is utterly and totally ridiculous.
Gang, a game at a time.Preach brother dgies...all in!
Let’s focus on putting the Husky down. Crappie little dog — had enough of him this year.
Go one from there after Wednesday.
“Probation” is being ranked numerous times, putting players in the NBA (including in lottery), and developing a Wooden Award finalist? Not to mention who knows how 2020 tourney would’ve gone but for Covid.Who was a lottery pick?
This narrative that Wojo’s era was a complete failure is utterly and totally ridiculous.
Who was a lottery pick?
Talk about low standards. It isn’t a special achievement within a seven year coaching span at Marquette to have a few ranked teams and send three players for cups of coffee in the NBA. That’s the bare minimum. Expectations are higher at MU, as they should be.
Shaka Smart has immediately taken this program to another level. Every Marquette fan should be rejoicing.
Gang, a game at a time.
Let’s focus on putting the Husky down. Crappie little dog — had enough of him this year.
Go one from there after Wednesday.
Ellenson
This narrative that Wojo’s era was a complete failure is utterly and totally ridiculous.Alright I’ll bite.
“Probation” is being ranked numerous times, putting players in the NBA (including in lottery), and developing a Wooden Award finalist? Not to mention who knows how 2020 tourney would’ve gone but for Covid.
This narrative that Wojo’s era was a complete failure is utterly and totally ridiculous.
Agree. But Wojo wasn’t some train wreck. It wasn’t great, but this revisionist history that it was some Dukiet level dark chapter is weird.
Avenue
There was zero team success in the NCAA, thus my probation reference. You play the game to win in March, MU did not. MU fired Wojo because he was failure at accomplishing success in March. Other items noted, obviously were not enough for him to keep his job. It is funny that you noted individual accomplishments in defense of the last guy and all everyone else is doing on here is celebrating great team play. Team success is why we field a basketball team and we are seeing what a team can accomplish under Shaka.
Projo's are a weird bunch. He's gone, you can admit he sucked. Having to pay a coach to go away after wasting 7 years shows it was an absolute failure.
It wasn't March that sank Wojo. It was his performance in February.
You’re right. There was one (1) coach at Marquette in the last 60 years who was worse than Wojo. I guess for some that’s an accomplishment.Not to defend Wojo, but I think there were three coaches worse than Wojo.
The pain wasn’t quite as severe, but the duration (7years vs 3) was much longer. One acute, one chronic. Both sucked.
All:
I am nothing short of ecstatic for the current state of Marquette hoops. Shaka is currently the best coach in America with a wide gap between second.
Can’t wait to see what we do in March.
Onward.
Mike Deane was bad but his results were better than Wojo. Pretty equal feel around the program at the end of both of their tenures. Both deserved to be fired.
Not to defend Wojo, but I think there were three coaches worse than Wojo.
First would be Majerus. He never made NCAA tournament after taking over MU program that had gone to NCAA tournament every year from 1969 on, except for when Al turned down bid and won NIT and the year Raymonds missed when Dean Marquardt was seriously injured in a car crash. Majerus would have ended up being a great coach in time, but he quit and we got stuck with the piano man. Majerus absolutely ended MU's place among the elite teams.
Second, was Dukiet. Nobody will argue that the piano man was not the worse coach
Third would be Mike Dean. He had early success with talent left by Kevin O'Neal. He could coach, but he could not recruit and therefore ran the program into the ground.
Two specific basketball things sank wojo imo.I agree with a lot of this, but a couple of quibbles.
1- adopting coach Ks style of playing 6-7 guys at Marquette. Completely flawed system outside of possibly a few select blue blood schools. I know there were times where he played more guys but he always had a quick hook and didn’t let the guys outside of his top 3/4 learn through their mistakes, develop and grow. This led to some of the most brutal matador defense we’ve ever seen, late season collapses, and large rifts inside the group.
Along the same lines, he was a very poor communicator and motivator- couldn’t even keep his 30 mpg guys who got the lions share of the offense happy and connected, let alone all the others.
2- his ability to coach defense. Brutal, just brutal. There is nothing more refreshing about the new era of Marquette basketball than not watching the opposing team get easy basket after easy basket, layup after layup, dunk after dunk. The opposition never had to work at anything and MU seemed to always give up 80 or 90 points. It was embarrassing and was sometimes masked by Markus and Co offensive production. Just lousy defense, you can’t win with it.
Wojo could recruit at an elite level and put an elite offensive team on the court. Anyone that says otherwise is wrong. He had the wrong overall approach, poor team building and motivational skills, and couldn’t coach a lick of defense or build a team that could better balance acceptable defense with good offense.
That’s why he gawne
“Probation” is being ranked numerous times, putting players in the NBA (including in lottery), and developing a Wooden Award finalist? Not to mention who knows how 2020 tourney would’ve gone but for Covid.
This narrative that Wojo’s era was a complete failure is utterly and totally ridiculous.
Gang, a game at a time.
Let’s focus on putting the Husky down. Crappie little dog — had enough of him this year.
Go one from there after Wednesday.
I forgot that if scoop doesn't focus on the next game that the team might lose focus.
Agree. But Wojo wasn’t some train wreck. It wasn’t great, but this revisionist history that it was some Dukiet level dark chapter is weird.
Focus on the next game? Why, when we can focus on the last 23 head coaches?
It wasn't March that sank Wojo. It was his performance in February.
Wojo is the first coach since Dukiet to not hang a banner at The Al.
He did not:
Win conference
Win conference tourney
Make a S16
All of the above get you a banner at The Al. Those should be minimum expectations of your tenure. He failed.
Again, after listening to people say "respect the process". Those of us who called out wojo in years 1,2, and 3 deserve one year to gloat.
The raw results were ok’ish at times and Wojo really did the absolute bare minimum not to be fired earlier (with some very lucky breaks in year 3 to sneak into the tournament…playing Creighton and Xavier without their top players, Nova shooting 6 of 34 wide open threes, etc). Wojo was also saved by the bell in 2020 and if the season was just a game or two longer, we were going to be left out if there was a tournament.
This is the real history behind those two years that projos love to bring up. Year 3 was absolute luck sneaking into the tournament. Had nova played anywhere near their ceiling in that game Wojo would have never gone to that tournament.
People forget that Marquette was in a tailspin at the end of 2020. Projos love to pretend that something magical would have happened in March with Howard. However Marquette was far from being a lock(though I do think they would have been selected) and were talks of them being left out. Covid gave wojo another year.
http://bracketmatrix.com/matrix_2020.htmlShaka is about to get a better seed than Wojo ever got in his first year (that most Projos guaranteed was going to be a painful rebuilding year)!
After every game that contributes to NCAA Tournament selection had been played in 2020, Marquette was in 97/97 projected brackets (100%) with an average seed of 8.87. They were an absolute, stone cold lock and there was literally no talk of them missing the Tournament (given that 0 brackets projected them to miss the Tournament).
But you get to gloat so don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Shaka is about to get a better seed than Wojo ever got in his first year (that most Projos guaranteed was going to be a painful rebuilding year)!
Oh we are allowed to gloat buddy
http://bracketmatrix.com/matrix_2020.html
After every game that contributes to NCAA Tournament selection had been played in 2020, Marquette was in 97/97 projected brackets (100%) with an average seed of 8.87. They were an absolute, stone cold lock and there was literally no talk of them missing the Tournament (given that 0 brackets projected them to miss the Tournament).
But you get to gloat so don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.
But can we plug and play an opening round lose to st johns? As well as mid majors getting upset and getting 2/3 teams into the tournament? Marquette could easily have been bumped.
We would’ve had to fall from a 9 seed (conservatively) to below an 11 seed in the S curve off of a bunch of games that have proven to mean no more than a single sample size in a 30+ game sample. We weren’t a play in team or a last 4 bye team. We were not anywhere close to being one loss to a high major away from being out of the tournament.
For me, the worst part about Wojo’s tenure by far was the continuous growth of apathy among the fan base as the years went by.How many “lucky breaks” has this year’s team had? By my count we have played three or four teams who were missing their best player. Does that make this year’s results lucky as well?
The raw results were ok’ish at times and Wojo really did the absolute bare minimum not to be fired earlier (with some very lucky breaks in year 3 to sneak into the tournament…playing Creighton and Xavier without their top players, Nova shooting 6 of 34 wide open threes, etc). Wojo was also saved by the bell in 2020 and if the season was just a game or two longer, we were going to be left out if there was a tournament.
As I've stated, I believe marquette gets in. But they were not a lock. There were numerous possibilities (while not likely) that could have dropped marquette out of the tournament.
As I've stated, I believe marquette gets in. But they were not a lock. There were numerous possibilities (while not likely) that could have dropped marquette out of the tournament.
Wojo is the first coach since Dukiet to not hang a banner at The Al.
He did not:
Win conference
Win conference tourney
Make a S16
All of the above get you a banner at The Al. Those should be minimum expectations of your tenure. He failed.
This is fascinating. I don't think I've ever read a thread on Scoop analyzing Wojo's tenure at MU.
Gang, a game at a time.
Let’s focus on putting the Husky down. Crappie little dog — had enough of him this year.
Go one from there after Wednesday.
What’s dumber - posts on a message board telling posters to “focus on one game at a time” or debating NCAA third round matchups in January?
Marquette should probably get a bump in the rankings next week
Would 4ever changing his refrain from “Crean sucks” to “Wojo sucks” help the cause?
I'm thinking 18-20, Unk.
Yea Wojo had a bad run, but nothing in my time as a Marquette basketball fan was more disappointing than the 2013-14 season when Buzz completely quit on that team.
The back to back OT losses to Providence and St. John’s, followed by pulling a red hot Deonte Burton against X in the Big East tourney sucked so much.
Marquette currently 24th ranked in the country. The following ranked teams have lost this week so far (I am counting MSU and Baylor losses as both are down by 20 right now late.
#25 LSU - 1 loss
#23 Texas - 1 loss
#21 Xavier - 1 loss
#20 Iowa State - 2 losses
#17 UConn - 2 losses
#13 Michigan State - 1 loss
#12 Villanova - 1 loss
#11 Wisconsin - 1 loss
#8 Baylor - 1 loss
#3 UCLA - 1 loss
Saturday Ranked Teams With Games Yet to Play: #9 Duke, #11 Wisconsin, #25 LSU, #5 Kentucky, #2 Gonzaga, #3 UCLA
Sunday Ranked Teams With Games Yet to Play: #15 Providence, #16 Ohio State, #6 Houston
MU absolutely should leapfrog over Michigan St. We could wind up 16th?
Marquette currently 24th ranked in the country. The following ranked teams have lost this week so far (I am counting MSU and Baylor losses as both are down by 20 right now late.
#25 LSU - 1 loss
#23 Texas - 1 loss
#21 Xavier - 1 loss
#20 Iowa State - 2 losses
#17 UConn - 2 losses
#13 Michigan State - 1 loss
#12 Villanova - 1 loss
#11 Wisconsin - 1 loss
#8 Baylor - 1 loss
#3 UCLA - 1 loss
Saturday Ranked Teams With Games Yet to Play: #9 Duke, #11 Wisconsin, #25 LSU, #5 Kentucky, #2 Gonzaga, #3 UCLA
Sunday Ranked Teams With Games Yet to Play: #15 Providence, #16 Ohio State, #6 Houston
#19 USC playing at #7 Zona right now
If USC loses they are a team we could jump
Especially since USC barely beat a 6 win ASU team the game before
Marquette currently 24th ranked in the country. The following ranked teams have lost this week so far (I am counting MSU and Baylor losses as both are down by 20 right now late.
#25 LSU - 1 loss
#23 Texas - 1 loss
#21 Xavier - 1 loss
#20 Iowa State - 2 losses
#17 UConn - 2 losses
#13 Michigan State - 1 loss
#12 Villanova - 1 loss
#11 Wisconsin - 1 loss
#8 Baylor - 1 loss
#3 UCLA - 1 loss
Saturday Ranked Teams With Games Yet to Play: #9 Duke, #11 Wisconsin, #25 LSU, #5 Kentucky, #2 Gonzaga, #3 UCLA
Sunday Ranked Teams With Games Yet to Play: #15 Providence, #16 Ohio State, #6 Houston
UPDATE:
#25 LSU trails 43-25 at the Half @ Vanderbilt
#19 USC trails #7 Arizona 64-62 @ the U4 TO
#11 Wisconsin leads Penn State 18-13 @ the Half
#9 Duke leads UNC 37-23 in the 1st Half
Sounds like must watch TV
Penn State, fail.
Penn State, fail.
Marquette currently 24th ranked in the country. The following ranked teams have lost this week so far (I am counting MSU and Baylor losses as both are down by 20 right now late.
#25 LSU - 1 loss
#23 Texas - 1 loss
#21 Xavier - 1 loss
#20 Iowa State - 2 losses
#17 UConn - 2 losses
#13 Michigan State - 1 loss
#12 Villanova - 1 loss
#11 Wisconsin - 1 loss
#8 Baylor - 1 loss
#3 UCLA - 1 loss
Saturday Ranked Teams With Games Yet to Play: #9 Duke, #11 Wisconsin, #25 LSU, #5 Kentucky, #2 Gonzaga, #3 UCLA
Sunday Ranked Teams With Games Yet to Play: #15 Providence, #16 Ohio State, #6 Houston
Also, some of the 1-loss teams had ugly wins earlier in the week; for example Sparty, who barely beat mediocre Maryland before they went and got annihilated at Rutgers.Maybe we pass Nova, but doubt we pass the others. Illinois had a good week and will likely move higher.
I'm thinking we definitely move past Texas, Xavier, Iowa State, USC and UConn. That puts us at 19.
There's a chance we also could pass any or all of Tennessee, Villanova, Michigan State and Illinois.
I'm sticking with 18-20, with 18 being more likely than 20 ... and an outside shot at 16-17.
Also, some of the 1-loss teams had ugly wins earlier in the week; for example Sparty, who barely beat mediocre Maryland before they went and got annihilated at Rutgers.
I'm thinking we definitely move past Texas, Xavier, Iowa State, USC and UConn. That puts us at 19.
There's a chance we also could pass any or all of Tennessee, Villanova, Michigan State and Illinois.
I'm sticking with 18-20, with 18 being more likely than 20 ... and an outside shot at 16-17.
Penn State, fail.
I hope we get texas in the tourney and destroy them.Shaka is money at MU right now. It is a fact that his numbers at Texas were nearly identical to Wojo's at MU. As we all know, that can lead to negative feelings. I think that fit matters and that MU is a much better fit for Shaka.
https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/topic/19896-point-and-laugh-at-shaka-smart/page/11/#comments (https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/topic/19896-point-and-laugh-at-shaka-smart/page/11/#comments)
Shaka is money at MU right now. It is a fact that his numbers at Texas were nearly identical to Wojo's at MU. As we all know, that can lead to negative feelings. I think that fit matters and that MU is a much better fit for Shaka.I am very happy the way this season is turning out. However, Shaka is doing well because he assembled a team that buys into what he is teaching. He is not going to be a worse coach 5 years from now. However, his success will depend on how much the new players he brings in are willing and able to do what he teaches.
Shaka is money at MU right now. It is a fact that his numbers at Texas were nearly identical to Wojo's at MU. As we all know, that can lead to negative feelings. I think that fit matters and that MU is a much better fit for Shaka.I also can't blame UT fans for some negative feelings. In fact, there is some funny stuff there (not sure it was meant to be funny). I was impressed that that many people in Texas care about basketball.
I hope we get texas in the tourney and destroy them.
https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/topic/19896-point-and-laugh-at-shaka-smart/page/11/#comments (https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/index.php?/topic/19896-point-and-laugh-at-shaka-smart/page/11/#comments)
I've gone in to check that discussion every once in a while. There's a few Shaka haters, but mostly it isn't a bad discussion and some entertaining and also informative parts. But yes, there are a few misguided/myopic posters that have weird or undervalued views on MU and the BE. They are probably just the types of fans who don't follow ncaab outside their own program/conf much. All boards have those.
The "Shaka will do well at Marquette because it isn't the big 12" was a funny one.
If Wojo (had a job and) was tearing it up somewhere else this year there would probably be a few salty folks on this board too.This is a complete impossibility unless Wojo took a midmajor so far out of our league that we wouldn’t care (Cleveland State or something) or they took him back at Duke and he sat in a chair watching Banchero dominate his competition.
Big XII is the best league in America and it’s not particularly close this year
Big XII is the best league in America and it’s not particularly close this yearI agree the Big XII is the best but 'not close'? I think the BE / Big XII challenge was pretty close.
I agree the Big XII is the best but 'not close'? I think the BE / Big XII challenge was pretty close.
Yes, the conference is having a great year, but the best conferences over the last 7 years has rotated regularly. BE holds up just as strong to the B12 over that span.The B12 has been the best conference over the last 7 years. During the BE’s best years it’s still not as good as the B12.
KenPom Conference Rankins as of today:Damn facts and data!!
1. Big XII +18.14
2. SEC +14.24
3. Big 14 +14.19
4. Big East +12.54
Damn facts and data!!
Actually, damn Georgetown. I don't know it for a fact but I'd put the BE top ten v. any other league's top 10 except the Big XII
The B12 has been the best conference over the last 7 years. During the BE’s best years it’s still not as good as the B12.
I dont know which metrics people want to use, but B12 was 4th 2 years ago (that was BE best year since realignment). I'm sure they were not top a few other times, but can't check atm.My metric would be NCAA tournament wins. I will go with the conference with the most NCAA tourney wins.
Point being, to scoff at BE being at the competitive level of B12 is indeed funny, even if B12 is usually the top conf.
My metric would be NCAA tournament wins. I will go with the conference with the most NCAA tourney wins.
I am not going to figure it out. I assume last year the Big 12 had more NCAA tourney games won, since Baylor won. Big East probably had more the two years Villanova won the title, but this could be iffy because the rest of the Big East has basically done nothing in the tournament.
Ellenson
This is a complete impossibility unless Wojo took a midmajor so far out of our league that we wouldn’t care (Cleveland State or something) or they took him back at Duke and he sat in a chair watching Banchero dominate his competition.
Either option there would produce no salt from me. He’s too inept to succeed anywhere on Marquette’s level - so it’s not even a hypothetical worth considering.
Borges has us at 15 up from 25.
Davis 14 from 18
Seth Davis has us at 14
Seth Davis has us at #14.
https://twitter.com/sethdavishoops/status/1490513572178415619?s=21
Safe to expect a 23 from Jesse Newell?
That’s it, MU is done for the week (sad!)
That said, solid for top 25 ranking.
I’ll go with the solid/bold 6 spot jump prediction. I know I know still games to be played, but I did the math and I’m sticking to it!
17 in the AP next week.
I’m not going to engage in a back and forth and argue with you but this is flat out wrong.The original hypothetical was what if Wojo was “killing it” somewhere else. My position is that he’s incapable of “killing it” period. Unless with a midmajor. Sure - he can go somewhere else on MU’s level and help them tread water in the middle of their conference. Maybe make the tournament once or twice. But that doesn’t fall under the definition of “killing it”.
Your hatred of the guy has brutally clouded your judgement.
He didn’t turn Marquette to DePaul, or what Butler or Georgetown are producing this year. He had MU competitive, in the tourney or at the doorstep for several of his years here.
Sure, not winning an NCAA tourney game sucks arse, there’s no denying that, and MU is much better off with coach Smart. However, relax with the “the guy is completely useless and doesn’t deserve to coach anywhere outside of a midmajor” rhetoric.
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Wojo was fully doomed coming to Marquette immediately after coach Buzz took MU to 3 consecutive sweet 16s with an Elite 8 to boot? Did it ever occur to you that maybe that was catching lightning in a bottle and that almost any coach that tried to fill those shoes would have fallen short?
I know he fell way short in your eyes, but don’t exaggerate it because your expectations for what you wanted from him were a bit irrational, or biased because of the previous tenures successes.
Wojo can coach at a higher level than you think, and he will. I’m not sure he will be successful, but I’m sure he’s earned another opportunity
The original hypothetical was what if Wojo was “killing it” somewhere else. My position is that he’s incapable of “killing it” period. Unless with a midmajor. Sure - he can go somewhere else on MU’s level and help them tread water in the middle of their conference. Maybe make the tournament once or twice. But that doesn’t fall under the definition of “killing it”.
Any program accepting Wojo’s results long term, despite the fact that he never fully tanked us, has no pride in its basketball program.
Updated:
Dickie V 13 (from 17)
Seth Davis 14 (from 18)
Clayton Collier 15 (from 18)
Borges 15 (from 25)
Wow, thought Davis would be the outlier when I saw his. F**k that's high.
Wow, thought Davis would be the outlier when I saw his. F**k that's high.
Updated:
Dickie V 13 (from 17)
Seth Davis 14 (from 18)
Clayton Collier 15 (from 18)
Borges 15 (from 25)
Not wild about going into UCONN with a big number on our back against a good team who just lost their ranking. Big motivation for the home team and their fans.
Not wild about going into UCONN with a big number on our back against a good team who just lost their ranking. Big motivation for the home team and their fans.
Marquette is a good team that should have big motivation to win an important game against a team that beat us in Milwaukee.
We Are Marquette!
Not wild about going into UCONN with a big number on our back against a good team who just lost their ranking. Big motivation for the home team and their fans.
Chad Leistikow 16 (from 25)
Berman at 15 (from 18)
Assume Jesse Newell/kenpom 23 (from NR)
Part of being successful is having a target on your back. All the time. It's what we aspire to.Yep Shaka stage 2 and we're less than a year in
Not wild about going into UCONN with a big number on our back against a good team who just lost their ranking. Big motivation for the home team and their fans.
UConn will be motivated to win because they are playing the game
I’m with you 82. F Uconn’s motivation. Let’s play like we’re the better team (which we are) and get a W!
What if this demotivates them? Mind games?
I don't think Uconns motivation will have anything to do with rankings.
More to do with the fact they just lost 2 straight and at 6-4 are kinda in a must win mode as far as competing for top 2 in the conference goes.
And we got similar motivation standings w/ise
Well, if any UConn players or coaches are reading scoop, I’m not sure we’d motivate or demotivate them but we’d sure as hell confuse them.
“Wait, who is the coach?l”
“Didn’t those guys transfer?”
“Does Justin Lewis play hard? Maybe?”
“Who the hell is Cam Jones?”
UConn will be motivated to win because they are playing the game
Looks like Illini beat writer Scott Richey is gonna win the top score with Marquette at 12.
Like.don’t think it’ll happen but man would top 15 be cool
I predicted 19. I might have been too low at this point.
18just keep winning 😊
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll?week=14
18
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll?week=14
Jesse Newell didn't rank us.
Must have forgotten to refresh his KenPom.
Newell always thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room and it’s kinda obnoxious.
Newell always thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room and it’s kinda obnoxious.
Newell always thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room and it’s kinda obnoxious.
Jesse Newell
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/jesse-newell/2021/week-14
Are we 18 in AP
No biggie but we should be #17 over Mich St.
Alabama and LSU were the only ones behind us who were reasonably close enough to leapfrog us and they went 0-4, so we're not being jumped.
We will pass:
#23 Texas (L@TTU, W-IAST)
#21 Xavier (W-BUT, L-DPL)
#20 Iowa State (L-KU, L@UT)
#17 UConn (L-CREI, L@NOVA)
We may pass:
#22 Tennessee (W-TAMU, W@SC)
#19 USC (W@ASU, L@ZONA)
#16 Ohio State (W-MARY)
#13 Michigan State (W@MARY, L@RUT)
#12 Villanova (L@MARQ, W-UCONN)
#11 Wisconsin (L@ILL, W-PSU)
We won't pass:
#18 Illinois (W-WIS, W@IND)
#15 Providence (W@SJU, W@GTWN)
#14 Texas Tech (W-TEX, W@WVU)
Anyone ranked #10 or higher
So a floor #20, a ceiling of 14. I'm guessing 18, but we close the gap on those that we don't pass.
Updated:
Dickie V 13 (from 17)
Carino 14 (from 22)
Bozich 14 (from 24)
Seth Davis 14 (from 18)
Berman at 15 (from 18)
Clayton Collier 15 (from 18)
Borges 15 (from 25)
Chad Leistikow 16 (from 25)
Rothstein 16 (from 20)
DeCock 20 (from nr)
Dave Preston 20 (from nr)
Jesse Newell/kenpom 23 (from NR)
Newell ended up being the only voter not to include Marquette in his Top 25. He didn't use KenPom this week because if he did Marquette would be in.
I think he knows what he is doing and likes the attention.
Which is another reason he shouldn't have a vote.
When was the last time Marquette was Top 20?
Week 14-15 in 2019-2020 season.
https://twitter.com/jessenewell/status/1490750446998331403?s=20&t=fQsiSNoEd3V25kZV3zT8lwI don't use Twitter . . . But I was wondering if anyone asked or he said anything about not ranking the Rodents??? 8-) or Arkansas so far down in his poll ??
Newell responds!
https://twitter.com/jessenewell/status/1490750446998331403?s=20&t=fQsiSNoEd3V25kZV3zT8lw
Newell responds!
BPI lol
What a clown.
Yep. Hit number 10 for four weeks in 2018-19. That was the highest mark since 2011-12, when we got up to 8.
Marquette was ranked in the Top 10 for a month just three years ago? Hmm. I thought we lived in darkness for the past seven years....... ?-(
Marquette was ranked in the Top 10 for a month just three years ago? Hmm. I thought we lived in darkness for the past seven years....... ?-(Oh, behave.
Losing 6 of the last 7 and finishing not ranked. Getting absolutely destroyed by one player team in the NCAA Great year. Total sunshine.
What year was it that we beat No. 1 Villanova at home? That was undeniably a great moment.
Ja Morant was the best player in that draft and in retrospect should've been No. 1 over Zion. Who I hope can stay healthy.
4 weeks of fake sunlight in 7 years is total darkness. What happened the game after beating #1 Nova?
What year was it that we beat No. 1 Villanova at home? That was undeniably a great moment.
Ja Morant was the best player in that draft and in retrospect should've been No. 1 over Zion. Who I hope can stay healthy.
4 weeks of fake sunlight in 7 years is total darkness. What happened the game after beating #1 Nova?
4 weeks of fake sunlight in 7 years is total darkness. What happened the game after beating #1 Nova?
MU ranked 18 this week.
They have the most losses (7) of any ranked team this week
They are 7-5 against Quad 1 teams.
12 Quad 1 games leads the top 25
7 wins has them tied for the most wins
Uconn is another quad 1 game tomorrow.
MU is 6-5 against ranked teams.
6 wins against a ranked team ties MU with 1977 for the most in school history (always like being compared to 1977!)
Another ranked team tomorrow
MU's SoS is #7 in the nation.
The best SoS in school history (full season) was #9 in 2011.
-----
So, what is the takeaway from all this?
PLAY AS HARD A SCHEDULE AS POSSIBLE. I truly believe MU's success is they are no longer intimidated by anyone. Why should they? Every game seems to be against a quad 1/ranked team. So playing Uconn is just another game for them.
You have additional thoughts?
I wonder how Rick Majerus would have handled this squad. I think we’d be ranked 69
How many managers and towels would he need this season?
Well, the deflection board kid probably wouldn’t like his job under Rick
MU ranked 18 this week.
They have the most losses (7) of any ranked team this week
They are 7-5 against Quad 1 teams.
12 Quad 1 games leads the top 25
7 wins has them tied for the most wins
Uconn is another quad 1 game tomorrow.
MU is 6-5 against ranked teams.
6 wins against a ranked team ties MU with 1977 for the most in school history (always like being compared to 1977!)
Another ranked team tomorrow
MU's SoS is #7 in the nation.
The best SoS in school history (full season) was #9 in 2011.
-----
So, what is the takeaway from all this?
PLAY AS HARD A SCHEDULE AS POSSIBLE. I truly believe MU's success is they are no longer intimidated by anyone. Why should they? Every game seems to be against a quad 1/ranked team. So playing Uconn is just another game for them.
You have additional thoughts?
Well, thedeflectiondefecation board kid probably wouldn’t like his job under Rick
does anyone know when the committee releases their top 16?
MU ranked 18 this week.
They have the most losses (7) of any ranked team this week
They are 7-5 against Quad 1 teams.
12 Quad 1 games leads the top 25
7 wins has them tied for the most wins
Uconn is another quad 1 game tomorrow.
MU is 6-5 against ranked teams.
6 wins against a ranked team ties MU with 1977 for the most in school history (always like being compared to 1977!)
Another ranked team tomorrow
MU's SoS is #7 in the nation.
The best SoS in school history (full season) was #9 in 2011.
-----
So, what is the takeaway from all this?
PLAY AS HARD A SCHEDULE AS POSSIBLE. I truly believe MU's success is they are no longer intimidated by anyone. Why should they? Every game seems to be against a quad 1/ranked team. So playing Uconn is just another game for them.
You have additional thoughts?
Seth Davis has us at 16.wow
Think we are out.True. Two-loss weeks are not healthy for rankings unless you're dealing with top 10's.
Seth Davis has us at 16.
So much for the Bucky guy hating Marquette ...
I love Marquette and I wouldn't have us at 16.
Are you thinking of Andy Katz?
Dropped out. #26 with 77 votes.
Dropped out. #26 with 77 votes.
Good. Deservedly so.
9 losses after an 0-2 week. Voters got it right.
Where do we direct our letters?
We deserve tongue
26
We deserve tongue
Dropped out. #26 with 77 votes.77 votes. I see that as a good sign!
1 vote in the coaches poll. lets go
I wonder what coach that was...
I wonder what coach that was...
Shockin' know won has chimed inn heer yet after last knight, hey?
Well now we're going to lose, great job guys ;DYep the reverse reverse jinx. We are screwed.
I'm not sure we'll be ranked.Well yeah. We won’t be after the double jinx screwing us for the game Saturday.
Well yeah. We won’t be after the double jinx screwing us for the game Saturday.
I'm not sure a win at home vs Wisconsin means we're automatically ranked but I could be wrong.
I think you are wrong
I think you are wrong
If we win Saturday we could be safely in the top 25.
Wins against Baylor and Wisconsin, and our only losses being close games with teams that remain undefeated - I would certainly hope we are ranked.
I hope you're right.Muggsy the Wizard is always right!
Win a 2nd this week and be near the top of the "others receiving votes" listnope ranked
I would too but it probably depends on what those teams do that are ranked 20-25
What are we going to be favored by on Saturday?
I wouldn't be surprised by anything from -1.5 to -7.5
This is the point in the season where some knucklehead gets all up in arms about it not mattering.
Then it turns into a several page thread about the visibility versus the uselessness of the polls etc.
Then it shockingly delves into a several page argument on whether “others receiving votes” #4 is actually 29th or not.
It’s all so much fun 😂
For the record it matters to me, and I say #20. In the unfathomable result of a loss UR.
If we win Saturday we could be safely in the top 25.
What are we going to be favored by on Saturday?My guess is -1.5 or -2.5.
I wouldn't be surprised by anything from -1.5 to -7.5
My guess is -1.5 or -2.5.
The rivalry of this matchup combined with the fact that neither team has a 2015 Badgers squad eliminates anything over 3 points.
Not sure on KenPom but Haslametrics has Marquette a 7+ point favorite.There are intangibles in this game that Haslam's computers can't calculate. I'll stick with my prediction.
There are intangibles in this game that Haslam's computers can't calculate. I'll stick with my prediction.
nope rankedWrong 26 or 27
Well, duh.
#5 AP, #9 coaches.
Well, duh.
#5 AP, #9 coaches.
#19 in AP and #77 in coaches.
Not sure on KenPom but Haslametrics has Marquette a 7+ point favorite.
Opening lines rarely differ from KP by a 1.5 point spread.
My guess is -1.5 or -2.5.
The rivalry of this matchup combined with the fact that neither team has a 2015 Badgers squad eliminates anything over 3 points.
Shooter
I meant to say we would be safely in the top 25. I think we win handily and will be ranked inside the top 20 on Monday.
Per his podcast this week, why does Gary Parrish "hate us"? Did he graduate from a tech school from the greater Michiana area?
I could be wrong but I think it's a call back to us being a fanbase that calls every pundit who's ever undervalued us or been lackadaisical in ranking us a "hater"
I think if we win we are ranked.
I feel good about the effort this team puts out, not so sure on the execution against a slow paced team. Watching film on UW over the past few days I wonder how teams don't just run them out of the gym. Like a few have posted on here, they do not look good. They just find a way and they are really good at that. If I knew nothing about either team and saw them play, I'd probably tell you Marquette should win easily. Knowing what we know this will probably be close down to the final minutes and added in the rivalry aspect it could come down to the final shot.
I hope that Marquette is able to impose its will like they did with Baylor and show that Tuesday wasn't an outlier performance.
UW-Madison still has to dribble it up the court to score, no matter how slow they play. MU guards will be all over them. They also don’t have Davis this year to bail them out with circus shots at the end of the clock. If MU plays with their characteristic D and hits a few uncontested three point shots, they win relatively easily for this type of matchup.
I agree with all of that. If the UW players had on any other jersey I may think differently about the "closeness" of the result, but knowing what we know about them I'm sure they will make it a battle.
If we cruise to a win I will feel pretty good about this team.
Shooter
I think they come out with the same intensity they on did and get out of the blocks quickly. Bucky is not going to know what them. I just hope we do not get too far ahead early and fans leave early again and I have to read about that after the game.
They just find a way
Except for Tuesday, when they didn't.
And except for 4 times in 7 meetings against the brilliant Wojo.
Sometimes, it turns out, they find ways to lose.
Both of UW's losses have been 1 possession losses to pretty quality opponents. They find a way to make it ugly and make it close is all.
Per his podcast this week, why does Gary Parrish "hate us"? Did he graduate from a tech school from the greater Michiana area?
I came across that podcast last night. Was a solid listen. Sounds like both Parrish and Norlander aren't the biggest MU guys, at least historically.
Btw - does Norlander always look and sound like he'd spent the last 45 minutes hitting a bong on that podcast?
**Marquette fans THINK Parrish and Norlander aren't the biggest MU guys, so they have to constantly hear about it because anybody who doesn't bow at the feet of Al McGuire will certainly hear it from the MU fanbase. So then they mock the MU fanbase about it when they do talk about Marquette.
Ahh, fair enough. Point well taken. I didn't pick up on the inside joke nature of the comment.
Wahl is a difficult match-up if he's getting to the rim as he did vs Kansas. O-Max I would think will have the primary responsibility. The main questions are can we get this game at our tempo and score in the half-court? I believe this is a Wisky team that you can turn over but it will still boil down to execution in the half-court. I have no doubt we can get quality shots consistently on Saturday, it's about knocking them down.
I feel strongly if we play a solid basketball game the result will be joy and a victory. Smother their one spot shooter and Hepburn. Rotate quickly if you need to double in the post. Attack with precision, no need to be Speedy Gonzales. Move the basketball,, use the entire floor, and take high quality shots. Tues was a thing of beauty. Play with that kind of confidence, take no prisoners, and dominate from start to finish.
I think Stevie/Sean will be able to shut down Hepburn and O-Max should be able to handle Wahl. Klesmit and Essegian just need to be run off the 3 point line. Any of our guards or wings can handle Davis. Crowl is the only one that I'm mildly concerned about. I think our defense works best when Oso can roam near the paint and Crowl can stretch the floor. He's had a very mild start from three (30% on about 3.5 attempts a game) but if he suddenly catches fire it could open things up for them.
We should be able to handle them on defense. Challenge will be the offensive end. If Wisconsin wins this game it will be because they eke out a 52-50 type victory. They don't turn it over so we will need to execute in the half court. Personally, I think their defense is a bit of a mirage. It ranks highly because they have a top 10 3pt defense with opponents only hitting 25% of their threes against them. Three point defense of course matters but there's always an element of luck to it. There's also the fact that they haven't exactly faced any skilled marksmen this season. Their opponents rank the following in 3P% on the season:
South Dakota 266th
Stanford 325th
Green Bay 345th
Dayton 346th
Kansas 111th
USC 205th
Wake Forest 75th
So they have lost their only two games against team that rank in the top half of 3P%. For reference Marquette ranks 171st which is just inside the top half.
Ran any semblance of a successful offense on Saturday and we should win.
I'm with you here and your analysis of the teams. This is a vitally important game far beyond the rivalry. I have some anxiety because of our performance vs Miss St. but do think we clearly have a better roster and should prevail.
I'm with you here and your analysis of the teams. This is a vitally important game far beyond the rivalry. I have some anxiety because of our performance vs Miss St. but do think we clearly have a better roster and should prevail.
If we score more points than them, high likelihood of victory.I would go 100% victory
I would go 100% victory
Same that was a good breakdown. I’m not really one to make predications but I’d give the badgers a ton of credit if they came into Fiserv and got the win. It’s their first road game this year and they just aren’t that good imo. I’d be somewhat surprised if the Badgers keep it within 10, but anything can happen.The thing about the badgers is that they usually do not beat themselves. They are fundamentally sound, and I do not expect our press to bother them much. Purdue only had 6 turnovers against us, and I would not expect badgers to have more than 10. We had leads against Purdue and Mississippi St and we ended up beating ourselves. The game will be close.
Also, agree with you that this is a massive game for our program and not just for the rivalry aspect. Need to continue turning the corner and not take one step forward and two steps back like we’ve done the past decade.
I would go 100% victory
I love all the metrics and the individual match ups on paper. However, this game makes me nervous every year. Historically there are always so many "intangibles" or an X factor that seems to show itself for the first time in UW vs MU match up. Since 2012, only 3 games have been decided by more than 10 points.
I wonder if UW will try to crash the offensive boards, or will they just get back on defense. I hope they try to get offensive rebounds because that will help our transition game.
My fear is that Tyler Wahl regresses to the mean in his 3 point shooting
I wonder if UW will try to crash the offensive boards, or will they just get back on defense. I hope they try to get offensive rebounds because that will help our transition game.
My fear is that Tyler Wahl regresses to the mean in his 3 point shooting
It's 4 actually:
21-22: 89-76
19-20: 77-61
17-18: 82-63
14-15: 49-38
And the streak is actually longer than 2012, it goes back to 2005 before there was another game decided by more than 10.
Youre worried about Wahl??I tend to catastrophize things, so yes, I worry about him hitting his first 3 attempt, then going like 4 for 10 from deep.
He takes like 1 or 2 3s a game. Even if he hits his mean they are getting 3 pts from him that way haha.
My a more legit worry would be his 2 pt FG% finds some level against us.
Youre worried about Wahl??
He takes like 1 or 2 3s a game. Even if he hits his mean they are getting 3 pts from him that way haha.
My a more legit worry would be his 2 pt FG% finds some level against us.
Jean Felix Traumatic SyndromeEXACTLY
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/xT9IgHCTfp8CRshfQk/giphy.gif)YES
I wonder if UW will try to crash the offensive boards, or will they just get back on defense. I hope they try to get offensive rebounds because that will help our transition game.My fear is that Crowl will actually hit threes.
My fear is that Tyler Wahl regresses to the mean in his 3 point shooting
Of all the things to worry about in this fooked up world, why are y'all worried about some 20 year old, pimple faced kids running around in shorts playing basketball. It will be what it will be, aina?Yes. I am more worried about peoplle being robbed or murdered going to or from the game today, but I thought that was so obvious that it did not need to be said.
Of all the things to worry about in this fooked up world, why are y'all worried about some 20 year old, pimple faced kids running around in shorts playing basketball. It will be what it will be, aina?
Ha! You serious Clark? All of us know the difference between fun anticipation and true worry. It’s fun to talk about this as a fan. Nature of sports.
A lot of people are worried about not being able to see dongs on Twitter, so to each their own
jack let the dongs have their way but censored everything else eyn'a? he seemed like a dong-lover if ya ask me, but to each their own
Of all the things to worry about in this fooked up world, why are y'all worried about some 20 year old, pimple faced kids running around in shorts playing basketball. It will be what it will be, aina?I'm a simple man, and those 18-20 yr old pimple-faced Marquette kids on the basketball team impact my mood. Just win, baby!
7 out of 10Not on a dong scale?
Well now we're going to lose, great job guys ;D
MU won't be this season unless they have a January run like last season.
I’m guessing 26thFalse 27th
There have been similar discussions in the past that were followed by Marquette wins -- and appearances and/or ascendances in the rankings.
Jinxes are for loozahs. And fanboards are for debates -- including those that end up being about nothing.
Yeah, but MU's record wearing the Valor Blues is baaaad.Specially on National TV
Don’t see how we will be ranked. I am doubting it. Beat Wisconsin, and I think we might have sneaked in.
You don't see any way a 9-3 team with wins over Creighton and Baylor (the latter by a bazillion points) and no "bad" losses will be ranked? Obviously, we both hope we'll get the chance to find out!27th
jack let the dongs have their way but censored everything else eyn'a? he seemed like a dong-lover if ya ask me, but to each their ownHow did I miss this roqqet classic?
Others receiving votes. I’ll say 29.COLE
How did I miss this roqqet classic?
How did I miss this roqqet classic?
I say we get votes but still 30-31 probably overall. ND win will get us votesCOLE 26
Assuming Wisconsin hangs on and wins here in Iowa, Marquette will still be behind both them and Mississippi State. Probably still behind Xavier too. I'd guess 27 or 28 receiving votes.COLE 26
Can this thread just go away?Why? Keeps this topic in one thread.
Can this thread just go away?dont click on it
dont click on it26
26
Can this thread just go away?
Doctor
I am already jacked up for the Creighton game.
There's no such thing.Liar
You’re going to have to bring the energy Goose. I think a ton of students are leaving for break before it.
Marquette is leaving the dorms open until Saturday at noon. I think the students will be juiced.
If they get a number in front of their name today the fans/students would be extra juiced. For PR reasons I hope it happens.
The contrarian side of Shaka is probably thinking it would add to these external distractions that he always talks about.
We will see
Marquette is leaving the dorms open until Saturday at noon. I think the students will be juiced.
We're has high as 22 so far on the 5 ballots I've seen, and 2 have us NR. Win like last year in December and that will take care of itself.
Regardless, a possession from being a REALLY insane 2 weeks.
That was a good decision, yet not implemented until last week. I suspect most students who don't live within driving distance of MU already had their plane tickets bought.
Yep, a majority of my son’s friends are flying home before the game.
Marquette is leaving the dorms open until Saturday at noon. I think the students will be juiced.
I would have definitely stayed to go to the game and party with the leftovers until they kicked me out on Saturday.
That was a good decision, yet not implemented until last week. I suspect most students who don't live within driving distance of MU already had their plane tickets bought.
28th behind Memphis and CharlestonNot 26???
Purdue 1
Mississippi State 17
Wisconsin 22
If the AP Poll didn't mean nothing already, it does now...
"KenPom No. 362 Mississippi Valley State (1-9) with four votes in the AP Top 25 poll this week."
If the AP Poll didn't mean nothing already, it does now...
"KenPom No. 362 Mississippi Valley State (1-9) with four votes in the AP Top 25 poll this week."
If the AP Poll didn't mean nothing already, it does now...
"KenPom No. 362 Mississippi Valley State (1-9) with four votes in the AP Top 25 poll this week."
Mississippi Valley State didn't get four votes. One pollster voted MVSU #22.I assume Abby meant Mississippi state
That was Abby Schnable, who just happens to be from the Wisconsin State Journal and is the state of Wisconsin's lone voter.
What an effen idiot.
Lmao voters had to have accidentally done that...
The girl who voted just Tweeted that
*woman
*woman
I assume Abby meant Mississippi state
Maybe. Maybe not. ;D
Interesting that the three teams that we lost to -- by a combined total of 11 points -- are ranked #1,17, and 22. It seemed that some scoopers posted as if our team just wasn't very good after those losses.
How do we know??
Mississippi Valley State didn't get four votes. One pollster voted MVSU #22 when she obviously meant to vote for Mississippi State.
That was Abby Schnable, who just happens to be from the Wisconsin State Journal and is the state of Wisconsin's lone voter.
What an effen idiot ... though one might have thought whoever edited the poll for AP would have spotted it and contacted her to make sure she didn't actually mean Mississippi State.
I thought this was also relevant to the point that you were making.
Marquette #26 in Coaches PollHaven't we settled this already, we are not #26. ;D
We'd have gotten in except Abby Schnable checked Marquette High School instead of Marquette University.
Mississippi Valley State didn't get four votes. One pollster voted MVSU #22 when she obviously meant to vote for Mississippi State.
That was Abby Schnable, who just happens to be from the Wisconsin State Journal and is the state of Wisconsin's lone voter.
What an effen idiot ... though one might have thought whoever edited the poll for AP would have spotted it and contacted her to make sure she didn't actually mean Mississippi State.
https://twitter.com/AbbySchnable/status/1603050544486129671?t=xJ2UOYoeWxGwcZQps3sL5w&s=19
Does she still get to keep her AP vote?
Wow. That’s ruthless for just clicking the wrong Mississippi State.
That can't be why...can it? If so that is just ridiculous.
That can't be why...can it? If so that is just ridiculous.
Can Ben Steele have his vote back now?
Can Ben steal his vote back now?
Can Ben Steele have his vote back now?
Can Ben Steele have his vote back now?Does he really not get a vote?
Did she really get canned for that? Woof.
Does he really not get a vote?
My guess is that it was a last straw kind of thing.
How did she even get to be an AP voter in the first place? I googled her, and her LinkedIn profile still has her as a 2021 Loyola Grad looking for her first real journalism job.
She was at the state journal. Just don't print anything bad about the badgers and you are hired.
She was at the state journal. Just don't print anything bad about the badgers and you are hired.Is there anything bad to print about the badgers? Did a football player score less than 50 on the ACT?
Is there anything bad to print about the badgers? Did a football player score less than 50 on the ACT?
Finest bunch of pure amateur student athletes you can find.Is Bo fair game!!?
How did she even get to be an AP voter in the first place? I googled her, and her LinkedIn profile still has her as a 2021 Loyola Grad looking for her first real journalism job.
I took a peek at the Buckyville website
12/19 - Marquette #2126
Have any of the teams 20-25 lost this week? Their Saturday games don’t look tough
Have any of the teams 20-25 lost this week? Their Saturday games don’t look tough
I am going with 22 only because there are too many writers who are too chickensh!t to rank us properly.
Others receiving votes.COLE train
COLE train
"We'll probably move past Arizona State unless they beat San Diego by 30 or something."
just wondering why? they're 10-1 with a few good wins. SOS? i'll hang up and listen
MU has solid wins. No bad losses. That matters for selection Sunday, less so for December polls. While I think MU has done enough to be a top 25 team, I doubt the voters have paid as much attention.Thought you knew me better NM (wrong thread)
Polls no mattaThat kind of thinking started World War Ii
I care more about coach poll and think they will be ranked between 21-23 on Monday.
That kind of thinking started World War Ii
82
Yes, I am well aware of that. At least it voted in by someone aware that game is 40 minutes in length and the rim is ten feet off the floor.
That kind of thinking started World War Ii
Pole dancers matta, aina?JB would agree
I care more about coach poll and think they will be ranked between 21-23 on Monday.up to 28 on kenpom. Whatever poll has us ranked the highest, I like!
82
Yes, I am well aware of that. At least it voted in by someone aware that game is 40 minutes in length and the rim is ten feet off the floor.
In the spirit of Christmas, I have to give kudos to the voters in both polls. Mizzu, of the SEC, is 10-1 and not receiving a single vote. The voters are paying some attention to actual schedules and not rewarding a P6 school with a nice record but a dog crap schedule. (SOS 292) Surprised some SEC tied voter didn't just vote for them based upon the record. Good job voters.
In the spirit of Christmas, I have to give kudos to the voters in both polls. Mizzu, of the SEC, is 10-1 and not receiving a single vote. The voters are paying some attention to actual schedules and not rewarding a P6 school with a nice record but a dog crap schedule. (SOS 292) Surprised some SEC tied voter didn't just vote for them based upon the record. Good job voters.
Exactly. I would prefer a student manager who is probably a basketball junkie making the votes than someone who does not follow the game.
82
What the fxxk are you talking about? I made a simple post that I prefer the coaches poll and you have multiple replies. I’ve been around the block and fondly remember the Marquette Warriors having their AP and UPI ranking stated every game prior to introductions and loved it. I have nothing against the AP, prefer the coaches poll.
up to 28 on kenpom. Whatever poll has us ranked the highest, I like!
OK, Goose, you're right. 100% of the student managers who vote on behalf of their coaches follow the game across the entire country very closely. And 100% of the sportswriters who vote in the AP poll do not follow the game at all, as proven by the one dope who voted for Mississippi Valley State.Just like dentists, you writers stick together
And it took a miracle shot to beat a mediocre UCF team.
That was a good win for them, on the road, (neutral site in Sunrise Fl) against a team that already has 3 Power 5 wins including on the road at Ole Miss in their previous game. Some of their other games are a different story.
It’s actually good for a first year coach piecing together a roster. (9 transfers, 2 jucos) He inherited Kobe Brown but not much else. Gates has said and done all of the right things since he has been there, bringing back many alums etc… They had a huge enthusiastic crowd camp out for the KU game. (Sure they got smoked) Nice bounce back win for them.
I’ll be curious where they are in 3 years and how Gates is doing, how C.Y. recruits there etc…
82
What the fxxk are you talking about? I made a simple post that I prefer the coaches poll and you have multiple replies. I’ve been around the block and fondly remember the Marquette Warriors having their AP and UPI ranking stated every game prior to introductions and loved it. I have nothing against the AP, prefer the coaches poll.
Just like dentists, you writers stick together
Who’s voting in place of the miss valley st Wisconsin chick?
Ericthered
Okey dokey. Enjoy the managers’ poll.
We use booze instead of laughing gas, though.
As someone who spent three years working at the LA Times, I can attest to that. The local bar had an LA Times extension in it.Where did all the news print on the bar stools at the Billy Goat Tavern come from?? Fish mongers?? ;D
Who’s voting in place of the miss valley st Wisconsin chick?
I care more about coach poll and think they will be ranked between 21-23 on Monday.
Goose
Agreed. Can't trust a group of sportswriters, or journalists period.
You can trust college coaches, though. Their words are their bonds *negotiableAs trustworthy as lawyers.
You can trustcollege coaches, though. Their words are their bonds *negotiable
Mississippi Valley State may be 1-11 going into tonight's game vs. #21 TCU but watch out! They're going to beat TCU so badly that MVSU will be ranked tomorrow. The Wisconsin chick was just got ahead of herself a little bit.
Low level assistant coaches or student managers***
FTFY
Getting us back on track here…100% chance Marquette is ranked tomorrow.
#23 Ohio St and #19 Auburn each lost this weekend. Do you think it’s enough for us to sneak in at 24/25? Or are we still in the “receiving votes” category?
You can trust college coaches, though. Their words are their bonds *negotiable
100% chance Marquette is ranked tomorrow.
Straight from heaven...
BD talked to Al. We are #1 this week.
#20 Maryland lost to UCLA by 27 on Wednesday. They have now lost 3 in a row.
Todd Aaron Golden did not vote for us.
https://twitter.com/ToddAaronGolden/status/1604752041385263104?s=20&t=hgl7gJQUnVD4AoE-1q0ygQ
Not even in first five out after "crunching numbers".
Utah State on some of these ballots is hilarious. The best team they have played is Oral Roberts and do not have ONE power 6 team on the schedule this year. There are probably ~50 teams that would roll through their current schedule undefeated...
Hey he crunched the numbers!
Hey he crunched the numbers!
Todd Aaron Golden did not vote for us.
https://twitter.com/ToddAaronGolden/status/1604752041385263104?s=20&t=hgl7gJQUnVD4AoE-1q0ygQ
Not even in first five out after "crunching numbers".
Jon Rothstein has us at 23.
23. Marquette: Similar to one of Shaka Smart’s teams at VCU, but on steroids.
We're in Borzello's waiting room with *ucky and TCU.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35251758/ucla-team-week-mississippi-state-debuts-uconn-holds-no-1-week-6-men-college-basketball-power-rankings-2022-23
I've been following polls for quite some time and Rick Bozich always keeps Marquette out of the Top 25 if they are a borderline Top 25 team. Every season. I imagine something happened in the past for him to not like Marquette because it is actually every season where he ranks them lower than the rest.
Just something I've picked up on over the years.
In the waiting room of his Top 16. So assuming he has a ballot we will be inside his Top 20.
Is Marquette Valley State getting any votes?
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/rick-bozich/bias
We're in Borzello's waiting room with *ucky and TCU.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35251758/ucla-team-week-mississippi-state-debuts-uconn-holds-no-1-week-6-men-college-basketball-power-rankings-2022-23
AP 23
If by 23 you mean 24.
https://apnews.com/article/sports-college-basketball-creighton-bluejays-mens-gonzaga-bulldogs-bf8580d49fc106507f147f94997e7fad
This AP article says 23.
Awesome accomplishment to be ranked after a tough schedule thus far.
https://apnews.com/article/sports-college-basketball-creighton-bluejays-mens-gonzaga-bulldogs-bf8580d49fc106507f147f94997e7fad
This AP article says 23.
1st team in CBB history to be ranked 23.5?They quoted us at 23, since one of the teams above us will be suspended during Operation Shoedrop
26 in coaches poll (ducks)
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/rankings/coaches/
26 in coaches poll (ducks)
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/rankings/coaches/
I think the article is wrong, poll shows 24
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
26 in coaches poll (ducks)
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/rankings/coaches/
You should just ignore me.
24 sounds good to me.
Onward and upward!
#25 in coaches, for real this time :)
https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/coaches-poll/
Jon Rothstein has us at 23.
23. Marquette: Similar to one of Shaka Smart’s teams at VCU, but on steroids.
You know, I really love this comment. To me this shows that Shaka really knows what he wants. He is going to play the way he thinks is best and is confident in who he is recruiting. And he is focusing primarily on player development, which I think if it is done well, is going to give MU a huge edge down the road.
You can’t trust the AP to correctly report on the AP Top 25.
Hope we don’t get pushed out after the weekly erroneous-pull-down adjustments!
Last year at this t8me 4 Big East teams ranked, but not MU. We were not even receiving votes. So. . . At his at 24 is cool
Its bonkers how WI is ranked so high.
Yeah, Dan, but then we were ranked - and it was the kiss of death.
But that was that team and not this one. This team seems ascendant - I don't think making the AP is going to stifle them. If we can beat PC
and hold serve vs. SHU it will give these guys some swagger going to Nova 12/31. If last year's team could beat them, why not this years?
Warriors.
I agree. Providence game is a key to win to get this team moving forward in a big swagger way! Go Marquette! Will be tough one
I agree. Providence game is a key to win to get this team moving forward in a big swagger way! Go Marquette! Will be tough one
The morning of every game we all here will think that game is "a key to win." And we all will be right.
Dat didant last long, aina?
Dat didant last long, aina?Such is life at a rank of 24 or 25.
How are the voters in the AP and also the UPI/Coach's poll selected? The "Wisconsin chick" (as one scooper dubbed her) was the worst screwup that I have ever seen in the polling, but there have been other AP voters with some weird votes. I believe that the publications are selected and whoever they assign to cover bball gets to vote, but if so, how are the publications selected and by whom?Legendary JB is not just one Scooper...
The same with the coaches who are voters-how are they chosen?
My guess is that, despite the MVSU fiasco and the occasional voters who make some strange choices, there are plenty of knowledgeable voters to assure that the polls are fairly solid.
How are the voters in the AP and also the UPI/Coach's poll selected? The "Wisconsin chick" (as one scooper dubbed her) was the worst screwup that I have ever seen in the polling, but there have been other AP voters with some weird votes. I believe that the publications are selected and whoever they assign to cover bball gets to vote, but if so, how are the publications selected and by whom?
The same with the coaches who are voters-how are they chosen?
My guess is that, despite the MVSU fiasco and the occasional voters who make some strange choices, there are plenty of knowledgeable voters to assure that the polls are fairly solid.
I’m no longer connected to this, so I can only tell you how AP voters used to be selected. I do think the process is similar today, but I don’t know for certain.
There are a few voters who cover college basketball for national publication/sites. Otherwise, the voters are spread around the country so most regions are represented. Usually in each region it is a beat writer who covers a major program, but in some cases it is a columnist who covers a ton of college hoops.
The state of Wisconsin usually has received one voter, and I believe it has alternated annually between the person who covers UW-Madison and Marquette. So next season, Steele probably will have the vote - unless someone else replaces him as MU beat writer for the Journal Sentinel. Similar decisions are made in other states/regions.
In many regions, the same voter has been doing it for years. In others, the voter changes more due to staffing changes at various publications.
Most sportswriters take the assignment seriously. If AP has reason to believe that’s not the case, it will take the vote away and assign it to someone else. That’s pretty rare, though.
Obviously, they are human and can make mistakes such as accidentally voting for the wrong team. Also, as in any other pursuit, some will be better at it and/or put more time and effort into it than others.
Thanks! Great reply and very informative. With that said. one more question please. Who are the "powers that be" at AP who make the decisions you mentioned (well, actually you did not say that, but....) and how are they chosen?
How are the voters in the AP and also the UPI/Coach's poll selected? The "Wisconsin chick" (as one scooper dubbed her) was the worst screwup that I have ever seen in the polling, but there have been other AP voters with some weird votes. I believe that the publications are selected and whoever they assign to cover bball gets to vote, but if so, how are the publications selected and by whom?
The same with the coaches who are voters-how are they chosen?
My guess is that, despite the MVSU fiasco and the occasional voters who make some strange choices, there are plenty of knowledgeable voters to assure that the polls are fairly solid.
“AP prides itself on accuracy, so that was unfortunate”
Lol. Many journalists are bad. The flippin AP article last week said MU was #23 when the poll had them at #24. Nothing special about those losers at the AP
I guess you weren't around when Majerus put Temple in the top 10 despite a 6-12 record at the time.
(Yes, I know it was technically an assistant that filled out Majerus' ballot--but it was still ultimately his responsibility).
Thanks again 82.
While we are on the subject, does anyone know how the coaches are chosen who vote in the UPI poll? I'm guessing basically the same way as the AP, but is there a rotation system of some sort? Perhaps they have a vote for x number of years?
Lose a road game in double-OT to a decent team, and drop like a stone.
Not sure if two wins this week will get us back into the top 25 or not ... but I'd sure like to find out!
There's only one team with 4 losses in the top 25. Most have two or fewer. We have four, and even though they're all good losses, they still don't look great for us. Most of the other "receiving votes" teams are all 3 or fewer losses too
Katz had us in his Top 25 last week and dropped us out of his Top 36 this week for losing to Providence.
The metrics like this team but the eyes don't.
How relevant is the "Katz 36"?
Not sure but that's what he releases every week.
We need to win tomorrow because the stretch coming up is tough. Seton Hall lost by just 3 @ Xavier. Gonna be a battle just like the rest!
Not sure but that's what he releases every week.
We need to win tomorrow because the stretch coming up is tough. Seton Hall lost by just 3 @ Xavier. Gonna be a battle just like the rest!
The metrics like this team butthemy eyes don't, which is why I picked Marquette to lose to Georgia Tech and saw no "realm" in which Marquette could possibly beat Baylor.
FIFY
Absolutely have to win tomorrow. End of discussion.
I don't think anyone has a grasp on how this team will finish.
Top-4 in the Big East, single digit seed, which is what I wrote preseason. Just because you didn't recognize this was a good team doesn't mean no one saw this coming. This team is better than last year's team was, and the winning is more sustainable. All of which was visible in the preseason.
I think this team finishes in the top three of the BE. As brew stated, this team is better than last season and I think better built to avoid a sustained downturn. I am sticking with 12+ BE wins.
Not sure what you're talking about. I love this Marquette team. I'm not sure how good they are but the team is awesome. I don't think anyone has a grasp on how this team will finish. Could miss the tournament altogether, could be a 6 or 7 seed. I'm just happy they've been enjoyable to watch and play hard.
I think this team finishes in the top three of the BE. As brew stated, this team is better than last season and I think better built to avoid a sustained downturn. I am sticking with 12+ BE wins.
i agree with this analysis!!
Chief concern is still a back up big who can spell oso. I don’t see that as a quick fix and our best bet is to go small ball. Oso has done an awesome job of staying out of foul trouble but I really wonder how many minutes he can log without wearing down.
Shocker
just like a cat playing with it's food-you are so damn predictable! i almost left a side "love" note in there to see how long it would take geeko to respond...2 minutes 2' 38 seconds?? you're slipping geeko-hard to type with your left hand while your right one is "busy"??
Who knew overexposure to laughing gas made one return to their 6th grade glory days with the sick burns?
"sick burn"?? did that offend you blm dude? i think you should be more offended by the fraud your organization and the people it purported to help are forgotten while you "privileged" folks sit by and virtue signal. tell your boyfriend to grow up, cease and desist (if he can) and i'll try to get off the "laughing gas"
just like a cat playing with it's food-you are so damn predictable! i almost left a side "love" note in there to see how long it would take geeko to respond...2 minutes 2' 38 seconds?? you're slipping geeko-hard to type with your left hand while your right one is "busy"??
Oso is averaging 31 mpg. He'd be fine playing 5 more. He's 20 years old. College games are filled with long time-outs -- there's one of them every 4 minutes and a long halftime, and that doesn't even count TOs that teams call and the ridiculously long ones in the final 2 minutes on every remotely questionable out-of-bounds call. In the last 2 minutes of a close game, players get far more rest than they do action. Oso will be fine.
There will be a few games in which being too small could hurt Marquette, but very few. I do share your concern about foul trouble; as you say, so far Oso has been outstanding at avoiding it.
"sick burn"?? did that offend you blm dude? i think you should be more offended by the fraud your organization and the people it purported to help are forgotten while you "privileged" folks sit by and virtue signal. tell your boyfriend to grow up, cease and desist (if he can) and i'll try to get off the "laughing gas"
Top-4 in the Big East, single digit seed, which is what I wrote preseason. Just because you didn't recognize this was a good team doesn't mean no one saw this coming. This team is better than last year's team was, and the winning is more sustainable. All of which was visible in the preseason.
That's a guess. It is far from a guarantee that they finish in the Top 3 in the standings.
They have talent, but the results have shown they will lose a lot of close games. Tonight's going to be a close game, NYE is going to be a close game, and so on and so forth.
He made a prediction. You make predictions too.
He responded to me saying "nobody has a grasp on how this team will finish" by saying Top 4, Single digit seed.
Seems to be a guarantee more than a prediction.
Nope
"sick burn"?? did that offend you blm dude? i think you should be more offended by the fraud your organization and the people it purported to help are forgotten while you "privileged" folks sit by and virtue signal. tell your boyfriend to grow up, cease and desist (if he can) and i'll try to get off the "laughing gas"LOL
"sick burn"?? did that offend you blm dude? i think you should be more offended by the fraud your organization and the people it purported to help are forgotten while you "privileged" folks sit by and virtue signal. tell your boyfriend to grow up, cease and desist (if he can) and i'll try to get off the "laughing gas"This is messed up...
I’m fairness, a week ago your answer was top 2 in the Big East so that’s already changed.
He responded to me saying "nobody has a grasp on how this team will finish" by saying Top 4, Single digit seed.
Seems to be a guarantee more than a prediction.
That's a guess. It is far from a guarantee that they finish in the Top 3 in the standings.Tonight will not be a close game.
They have talent, but the results have shown they will lose a lot of close games. Tonight's going to be a close game, NYE is going to be a close game, and so on and so forth.
Of all the threads on scoop, this one may be the most miserable one to trudge though.
Tonight will not be a close game.Yes, we will lose by double digits...
Yes, we will lose by double digits...
No, tonight Marquette wins easy and GoldenEagles03 worries it was too easy and will hurt them in the long runDepth will kill MU
Depth will kill MU
Call it what you want. A number of us have been far more bullish on this team and thus far the numbers all indicate we were right.
Whether it's the 40+ spot kenpom improvement in 2 months, the top-15 spot in unbiased T-Rank, or whatever other metric you like, the bullish side of Scoop has been right and you've been wrong.
Again, just because you didn't see this coming doesn't mean no one saw this coming.
That's a guess. It is far from a guarantee that they finish in the Top 3 in the standings.
They have talent, but the results have shown they will lose a lot of close games. Tonight's going to be a close game, NYE is going to be a close game, and so on and so forth.
Waking up every day is far from a guarantee. Actually a 1 in 200,000 chance that you die every day. Wild stuff. Yet here we are talkin sports. So guesses are fun and don’t take anything as a guarantee.
Whatever. I’m drunk. But the moral of the story is that you’re right, tonight was a very close game and in very surprised MU pulled it out in the last minute or so.
Waking up every day is far from a guarantee. Actually a 1 in 200,000 chance that you die every day. Wild stuff. Yet here we are talkin sports. So guesses are fun and don’t take anything as a guarantee.This is impossible. One cannot die every day.
Whatever. I’m drunk. But the moral of the story is that you’re right, tonight was a very close game and in very surprised MU pulled it out in the last minute or so.
This is impossible. One cannot die every day.
It was actually close for much longer than it should've been. It was a game of runs for 25 minutes caused largely by some poor officiating, but people don't like talking about poor officiating on here so I'll leave that alone.Ummm, nope
It was actually close for much longer than it should've been. It was a game of runs for 25 minutes caused largely by some poor officiating, but people don't like talking about poor officiating on here so I'll leave that alone.
I do agree the officiating was poor. Same with providence game for sure.
It was actually close for much longer than it should've been. It was a game of runs for 25 minutes caused largely by some poor officiating, but people don't like talking about poor officiating on here so I'll leave that alone.
It was actually close for much longer than it should've been. It was a game of runs for 25 minutes caused largely by some poor officiating, but people don't like talking about poor officiating on here so I'll leave that alone.
We must have lost then. Marquette never wins close games.
They haven't won a single close result yet this season. Not sure why scoopers have such a hard time agreeing with that.
Marquette was clearly the better team last night and the game was kept close longer than it should have because of officiating.
That game should have been over in the 1st half.
And that’s why our seeding has been hurt
It was actually close for much longer than it should've been. It was a game of runs for 25 minutes caused largely by some poor officiating, but people don't like talking about poor officiating on here so I'll leave that alone.
T-Rank measures Game Score. That tells you how much a team had any given game in control adjusted for competition, regardless of final result. The Seton Hall game was our fourth highest game score of the season at 96.0. The only more dominant performances were Baylor, Georgia Tech, and Creighton.
Once we made that run in the first half, it was never in doubt.
Rico
That is a big group.
Rico
Is your memory as sound in everyday life as it is on scoop posts? If so, impressive.
Golden
The game was not close and never in doubt. It felt more like a 20 point blowout than a close game.
After Marquette scored the opening points I never felt like they were going to lose that game, but it took a Joplin prayer to be up by more than 4 points at half. Closer than it shoulda been because of the stripes.
After Marquette scored the opening points I never felt like they were going to lose that game, but it took a Joplin prayer to be up by more than 4 points at half. Closer than it shoulda been because of the stripes.
I really get tired of all the snarky back and forth on this board and do my best to ignore it and move on and avoid piling on anyone.
That being said, this statement really stood out to me. You're basically saying "If only we hadn't scored as much as we did, the game would have been closer" I mean, seems a bit ridiculous. No?
I really get tired of all the snarky back and forth on this board and do my best to ignore it and move on and avoid piling on anyone.
That being said, this statement really stood out to me. You're basically saying "If only we hadn't scored as much as we did, the game would have been closer" I mean, seems a bit ridiculous. No?
That's what you got out of that?
The game was close because the officials kept it that way for 22ish minutes. Marquette would have run away with it in the 1st half had they not called OMax and Oso for a cheap foul each.
He got your post. You didn't get hisYes, and players should not give refs the chance to call cheap fouls. They were fouls.
We have to move back in, right? 23?
We have to move back in, right? 23?
The voters are not quick to allow a team back in, I say it'll take another strong week and thus will be RV this week.So 26
Kentucky, Miss State, and North Carolina should all drop out. New Mexico if they lose today also. Should have a good chance to be ranked.How is that team even ranked, let alone as high as 19? They started the week 8-3 and their best wins are Michigan (N), Yale (H), and Duquesne (H). Ick. A 2OT loss to a mediocre MSU team and double-digit losses to Gonzaga and UCLA don't impress me either.
The voters are not quick to allow a team back in, I say it'll take another strong week and thus will be RV this week.
Who cares?200% brother dgies yup yup
Just win baby and the rest will take care of itself!
Who cares?
Just win baby and the rest will take care of itself!
How is that team even ranked, let alone as high as 19? They started the week 8-3 and their best wins are Michigan (N), Yale (H), and Duquesne (H). Ick. A 2OT loss to a mediocre MSU team and double-digit losses to Gonzaga and UCLA don't impress me either.
How is that team even ranked, let alone as high as 19? They started the week 8-3 and their best wins are Michigan (N), Yale (H), and Duquesne (H). Ick. A 2OT loss to a mediocre MSU team and double-digit losses to Gonzaga and UCLA don't impress me either.
Yet to see marquette on a ballot other than Seth Davis--who has us 17
Given all this and how voters tend to vote this time of year, we are:
Definitely Passing
Virginia Tech
Memphis
Maryland
North Carolina
Maybe Passing
Iowa State
San Diego State
Illinois
Charleston
West Virginia
Mississippi State
Definitely Not Passing
Missouri
Ohio State
Xavier
New Mexico
Auburn
We'd have to pass every definitely and every maybe in order sneak in at #25....and that's assuming that we don't get jumped by a team that had less votes last week (For example, I could see Providence picking up some votes.
Marquette disrespected at #32 in the AP. Providence also underwhelms at #33. UConn falls to #4; Xavier only advances to #18.
It’s going to be hard to move up playing in the Big East this season.
#32 in votes for top 25, but it’s possible a lot of voters have us at 26 or 27 since they only vote for 25 teams.
There are zero teams in the AP Top 25 with 4 losses. (MUBB has 4)
Baylor is a good win. Creighton is a solid net win but they are 8-6. No “bad” losses so far. But 3 of them were to similar level or worse teams.
There are six teams with 3 losses. Gonzaga, Indiana, Duke, Xavier, Baylor, Ohio State.
marquette: 27-0So I was right.
tower: others receving votes
The capriciousness of rankings - we're 1 MU made FT (or one miss PC FT) away from being what - like 15?
Providence had at least 5 second chance points on missed FT, so ironically MU could be ranked if PC made 1 more FT.You see? Free throws do matta!
Beating SJU and Georgetown this week won't impress anyone so we will need a lot of help to get ranked before the UConn matchup.
Who cares about rankings, just ask yourselves... is this team better then last year? Is it better then 2,3, or 4 years ago? If the answer is yes, be happy.
Hmm well Justin likely walks over Omax at the 4, does morsell lock down Jones or Kolek, can Oso score on Kur and does Joplin beat Greg as the 6th man.
I like the cohesiveness of this team more as a whole but I don't think it's individually better than last year at this time
I think this years team is significantly better.
Hmm well Justin likely walks over Omax at the 4, does morsell lock down Jones or Kolek, can Oso score on Kur and does Joplin beat Greg as the 6th man.
I like the cohesiveness of this team more as a whole but I don't think it's individually better than last year at this time
I think this years team is significantly better.
Don’t drink and message board….
Hmm well Justin likely walks over Omax at the 4, does morsell lock down Jones or Kolek, can Oso score on Kur and does Joplin beat Greg as the 6th man.
I like the cohesiveness of this team more as a whole but I don't think it's individually better than last year at this time
Is every player in MU's starting five technically better?
2023 beats 2022 81-77 on a neutral court.
Does Kolek guard Kolek ?
I personally think Kolek beats Kolek
Who wins the trash talk contest though?What about Kolek vs Diener or is Kolek Diener
Does Kolek guard Kolek ?
Does he beat himself?
I personally think Kolek beats Kolek
Does he beat himself?
Does he beat himself?Who doesn't?
Does he beat himself?Now that is highly suggestive...and gross
Now that is highly suggestive...and grossSad dirty mind, have a burger
25.26
If I jinx the squad to a loss versus Georgetown then boot me
This is for you, Johnny B...probaly,based on the small jump in votes we got this week.
Others receiving votes.
If we beat GT, we might be 25 or 26.26
Looking at the teams ahead of us, I think the highest team we could pass is #19 Baylor who lost twice at home (though to solid teams by a combined 4 points). We're also definitely getting hopped by Providence. Here's what the last week has looked like for the teams between us and Baylor:
#19 Baylor (520 votes) L vs. TCU, L vs. K-State
#20 Missouri (329) L @Arkansas W vs. Vandy
#21 New Mexico (290) L @Fresno State L vs. UNLV
#22 Auburn (287) L @Georgia, W vs. Arkansas
#23 Charleston (116) W @North Carolina A&T W vs. Delaware
#24 Ohio State (114) L vs. Purdue ??? @Maryland
#25 Iowa State (94) W @Oklahoma W @TCU
ORV1 LSU (83) L @Kentucky L @TAMU
ORV2 SDSU (72) W @Wyoming
ORV3 Mississippi State (62) L @Tennessee W vs. Ole Miss
ORV4 Kentucky (53) W vs. LSU L @Alabama
ORV5 K-State (41) W @Texas W @Baylor
ORV6 Illinois (21) L @Northwestern W vs. Wisconsin
ORV7 Marquette (20) W @St. John's W vs. Georgetown
ORV8 Providence (14) W vs. UConn W vs. St. John's
Definitely Passing
Illinois
Kentucky
Mississippi State
LSU
New Mexico
Maybe Passing
Ohio State (depends on what they do vs. Maryland tomorrow)
Auburn
Baylor (I think we pass them but that's a big vote gap to overcome)
Definity Not Passing
Kansas State
San Diego State
Iowa State
Charleston
Mizzou
My guess is that at best we can sneak in at #25. If Ohio State wins tomorrow, I think we end up as the first team left out
Illinois? My guess is we will be around #28.
What is your confusion with Illinois?
What is your confusion with Illinois?
What is your confusion with Illinois?
They lost to Northwestern earlier in the week, of course they won't be ranked.
What part of TAMU's post that you quoted indicates otherwise?
Okay. I didn't look at their votes the prior week and realize they were ahead of us. Either way do teams outside the T-25 automatically stay in their spots vs other teams week to week? I mean obviously if we beat UCONN and XU we will jump teams that may be ahead of us that also win this week.
Okay. I didn't look at their votes the prior week and realize they were ahead of us. Either way do teams outside the T-25 automatically stay in their spots vs other teams week to week?
I mean obviously if we beat UCONN and XU we will jump teams that may be ahead of us that also win this week.
just received the "team rankings' thing-only a 12% chance at auto bid? wonder who their actuary is? a madison grad?That means that whatever your source is has determined by their system that MU has a 12% chance of winning the Big East tournament and getting the automatic bid for the league.
Illinois? My guess is we will be around #28.
That means that whatever your source is has determined by their system that MU has a 12% chance of winning the Big East tournament and getting the automatic bid for the league.
The current process that people who vote in the AP go through is a bit out of whack and there should be more of a weekly recalibration effort.
Teams that are currently ranked don’t get punished for their best wins not being good anymore (example Badgers vs #13 Maryland). Also as long as currently ranked teams don’t lose, they move up if teams ahead of them lose even if they don’t play that week or eek out close wins in buy games or horrible conference opponents (UW is another example of this). The voters don’t care about the games as long as they don’t lose.
Only when a team gets bumped from the rankings is this recalibration done and the teams full body of work is reanalyzed before they make it back in. Voters won’t care much about our Baylor win anymore, but we wouldn’t have been punished for it had we never fallen out in the first place.
MU is clearly one of the Top25 teams in the country right now and if you start with a blank slate, I don’t see how you don’t put them on there. Unfortunately for us, it’s done more in the way the poster above broke it down.
The voters, being human, have a natural inclination to defend their previous votes; as evidenced by UNC holding the no.1 spot even after their start to the season. People would rather think they are right than be honest. We are almost all guilty of this and smart honest people make lots of money off that mentality in the stock market every day.
The voters, being human, have a natural inclination to defend their previous votes; as evidenced by UNC holding the no.1 spot even after their start to the season. People would rather think they are right than be honest. We are almost all guilty of this and smart honest people make lots of money off that mentality in the stock market every day.
Only rankings that matter are net and kenpom. Marquette is looking great in those.
If MU doesn’t crack the Top 25 now, it is going to be very hard to break in and stay in for next vote. They would need to beat both UConn and Xavier otherwise the voters will count the loss as reason to keep them out.These are games that the voters are likely to watch. Looking good in a loss may raise MU's profile in their minds.
Regardless, I think MU needs another big win to get in. I think most voters want a team to either 1. Have a big W or 2. a long win streak.
Looking at the teams ahead of us, I think the highest team we could pass is #19 Baylor who lost twice at home (though to solid teams by a combined 4 points). We're also definitely getting hopped by Providence. Here's what the last week has looked like for the teams between us and Baylor:
#19 Baylor (520 votes) L vs. TCU, L vs. K-State
#20 Missouri (329) L @Arkansas W vs. Vandy
#21 New Mexico (290) L @Fresno State L vs. UNLV
#22 Auburn (287) L @Georgia, W vs. Arkansas
#23 Charleston (116) W @North Carolina A&T W vs. Delaware
#24 Ohio State (114) L vs. Purdue ??? @Maryland
#25 Iowa State (94) W @Oklahoma W @TCU
ORV1 LSU (83) L @Kentucky L @TAMU
ORV2 SDSU (72) W @Wyoming
ORV3 Mississippi State (62) L @Tennessee W vs. Ole Miss
ORV4 Kentucky (53) W vs. LSU L @Alabama
ORV5 K-State (41) W @Texas W @Baylor
ORV6 Illinois (21) L @Northwestern W vs. Wisconsin
ORV7 Marquette (20) W @St. John's W vs. Georgetown
ORV8 Providence (14) W vs. UConn W vs. St. John's
Definitely Passing
Illinois
Kentucky
Mississippi State
LSU
New Mexico
Maybe Passing
Ohio State (depends on what they do vs. Maryland tomorrow)
Auburn
Baylor (I think we pass them but that's a big vote gap to overcome)
Definity Not Passing
Kansas State
San Diego State
Iowa State
Charleston
Mizzou
My guess is that at best we can sneak in at #25. If Ohio State wins tomorrow, I think we end up as the first team left out
IU missing players but NE making them look bad. Until IU is over .500 in conference they should not be ranked.
Should be able to add #15 Indiana to the DEFINITELY PASSING category.
Looking like they are about to lose to Northwestern for an 0-2 week. They'll drop to 10-5 on the year.
*Actually 8 minutes left, I thought it was 3. If Northwestern holds on, point stands.*
They should be added to the maybe passing list. I missed that they were paying today. Two losses will make them drop big but a 530ish vote gap is a large one to overcome
Agree about the large gap, but I wouldn't be surprised that a lot of people who voted for Indiana in the 12-20 range the past couple weeks don't vote for them at all now.
I think we’re over analyzing this. The voters obviously place a lot of value in overall record. As of last weeks voting there was not a single 4 loss team ranked, and we had four losses.
Now this week there are teams with 4 loses and we’ll be evaluated against them.
We lose one (or two) this week and we’ll for sure not be ranked because voters won’t vote for a five loss (or six) loss team.
Why would MU be ranked when they don't have a single good win?
David Borges, the AP voter who covers UConn, doesn't have Marquette in his Top 25 this week.
David Borges, the AP voter who covers UConn, doesn't have Marquette in his Top 25 this week.Dumb of him, would have been better if MU was ranked when MU beats them
Goodman has us at #20.
Borges: Unranked
Golden: 15
Collier: 24
Berman:24
The 4 I have seen so far
We went from unranked in Golden's ballot to 15th this week after beating St. John's and Georgetown. Listen, I'm happy to be 15th, but that kind of jump for beating St. John's and Georgetown is why voters aren't taken seriously at times.
David Borges, the AP voter who covers UConn, doesn't have Marquette in his Top 25 this week.
It would be nice if he gets a bit of a wake-up call Wednesday night.
Borges: Unranked
Golden: 15
Collier: 24
Berman:24
The 4 I have seen so far
Borges: Unranked
Golden: 15
Collier: 24
Berman:24
Rothstein: 23
Carino: 22
Davis: 17
Bozich 25
Looks like MU will make it. Beating Georgetown still has some cache.
Chris Murray, Nevada AP voter puts Nevada in at 25. Marquette not included in his ballot.
He and Borges are the only 2 I've seen so far to not have Marquette.
Winning twice fairly impressively while numerous teams in front of us lost, some more than once, still has some cache too. As does starting 5-1 in the Big East, with the only loss coming on the road in double OT to another team moving into the rankings.
I feel pretty good about us having a top-25 resume to date.
I am and have all year been very high on this team and believe they have what it takes to be a top performing team. At the same time, I'm also very superstitious and/or feel the effects of the COLE. With that being said, I HOPE we are not ranked yet until we win this week. Too often I've seen us get ranked one week and then have a tough matchup that following week which shouldn't take us out necessarily, but does. So let's hopefully be RV this week, win big this week, and be ranked and in solidly starting the following week and for the rest of the year!
Taking MU out of the equation, there are only 3 good teams in the BE (UCONN, Xavier and Providence).
Taking MU out of the equation, there are only 3 good teams in the BE (UCONN, Xavier and Providence).
Good point, once you take out a really good team in MU and forget about another really good team in Creighton, there are only three good teams in the conference.
4 votes for Creighton. I don't care that they didn't have their star voting for a team two games above .500 that lost this past week in his second game returned is a waste of vote.
My guess is it's a KenPom voter. Creighton still #17 in KenPom.
Hoping Baylor can work their way back into the rankings. That win looked great when it took place, but losing value quickly. Are they still a quad 1 win?
#25 seems fair. Although Duke is not good.
No, they are just outside Q1 with a NET of 31. Literally one spot off. Our metrics are beautiful but our Quadrant numbers could be better:
Q1A: 0-2
Q1B: 1-1
Q2A: 2-0
Q2B: 2-1
Q3: 2-0
Q4: 6-0
Who is our Q2B loss to?
Only 2 Big 10 teams in the top 25. Can't remember the last time that happened. 6 of em in others receiving votes
Taking Purdue out of the equation, there are no good teams in the Big 10.
Wisconsin.
Glad to be ranked.
That in the past we sometimes lost right after being ranked has nothing to do with the present. This team deserves to be recognized as one of the 25 best in the country.
We Are Marquette!
Tough draw on the schedule this week to eliminate that trend.
But like you said, its just good to be reconized. Lets go try and win a game or 2 this week.
Taking 1 outta 2 should keep MU in.
Taking 0 outta 2 wouldn’t.
Taking Purdue out of the equation, there are no good teams in the Big 10.
I choose Door #3.
So a few weeks ago we’re ranked 23rd
In that time we go 4-1 and our only loss is on the road in 2OT to a now ranked team. Additionally we’re 15th in KenPom and have the 6th best offense. It’s really ridiculous to think we’re just 25. We've only improved our resume since last being ranked.
So a few weeks ago we’re ranked 23rd
In that time we go 4-1 and our only loss is on the road in 2OT to a now ranked team. Additionally we’re 15th in KenPom and have the 6th best offense. It’s really ridiculous to think we’re just 25. We've only improved our resume since last being ranked.
I like the coaches poll better.
Had we dropped from 23 to 25 after Providence, we'd probably be in the top-15 by now. That's okay, let them all sleep on us.
Have a feeling that we will get a much better ncaa seed than our AP ranking would indicate.
Gotta win 2 of the next 3 at least.
If AP votes were seed order Marquette would be a 7 seed. What is much better than a 7 seed to you? 4 or 5?
Exactly - put Duke’s resume with any other team and they’re in the bottom section of the ‘others receiving votes’. But it’s been fun watching Scheyer look clueless with his collection of 5 stars.
I know it’s incredibly early, and not to say I told you so, but I’ve been on the Jon Scheyer is going to be a terrible coach bandwagon since it’s inception.
I know rankings don’t matter and all that matters are net ranking besides the help with recruiting and national exposure. With that being said, I think the number by our name makes everyone who supports Marquette much more excited. Not trying to jinx anything but A TON of ranked teams losing today and over the last week. Any predictions where we could be with a win on Sunday?
I know this is a red-hot take, but jinxes aren’t real.
After we win tomorrow, I see top 15 as quite possible.
One team we won’t see ranked is the boring plodders of Madison.
I know this is a red-hot take, but jinxes aren’t real.
After we win tomorrow, I see top 15 as quite possible.
One team we won’t see ranked is the boring plodders of Madison.
Agree, top 15 is possible with a win and top 20 is possible with a close loss. Also, the badgers will be much closer to the bubble than they are to being ranked once the new polls come out.
You think we will go up 5+ spots with a close loss tomorrow?
We wouldn't pass Xavier with a win, but we should with it being a road game.
We wouldn't pass Xavier with a win, but we should with it being a road game.
8 wins for unranked teams over ranked ones now.
Texas and UCLA about to go into HT losing to UR teams, both at home.
Might be looking at an all-time record for a single day, if we don’t already have it
I'd take that bet. Wins over #6 & #12 in the same week would give us the kind of bump K-State got last week. We'd be 10-15.
How good is C of C?
Yall can never just wait huh?
I'll say 23. Should be ahead of UConn but I bet they won't be.
Jinxed us! ;D
I think despite the loss, we move up
19
Collier: 20 (24 last week)
Golden: 16 (15 last week)
Carino: 17 (22 last week)
Berman: 16 (24 last week)
Jake
Where do you think they are ranked this week? I am going with 17. Yesterday's game had to pass the eye test for anyone that saw the game or simply saw the final score.
Worst ballot I've ever seen.
13-5 VCU is in at 24. Finishes with 4 mid majors. Arizona State is ranked. UConn still at 14 but no Marquette.
https://twitter.com/davpresto/status/1615002540302815232?t=mpx2rK3Gq4jKR-nd5gwmng&s=19
3 of VCU's losses are to Temple, Jacksonville, and Duquesne. Ban the AP Poll.
#20
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
(I guessed 19 and thought we would have been ahead of Charleston)
Nice!
How is Arizona State ranked 11th? I haven't been paying close attention to the polls all year, but I watched them lose at Texas Southern and to San Francisco by 37.
11th!?!
#20
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
(I guessed 19 and thought we would have been ahead of Charleston)
Arizona State isn't 11th. Arizona is 11th. Iowa State is 12th. Arizona State is RV.
MU in at 16 in the ESPN top 16 Power Rankings.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35453291/big-12-teams-alabama-win-big-men-college-basketball-power-rankings-2022-23 (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35453291/big-12-teams-alabama-win-big-men-college-basketball-power-rankings-2022-23)
Arizona State isn't 11th. Arizona is 11th. Iowa State is 12th. Arizona State is RV.
Clemson at #19 ahead of Marquette - after being unranked last week - is a real head-scratcher.
Clemson is Kenpom #54, NET #49
Best wins:
72-64 vs Duke (KP #29, NET #25)
78-64 vs NC State (KP #36, NET #29)
101-94 (2OT) vs Penn State (KP #37, NET #51)
68-65 at Virginia Tech (KP #42, NET #55)
Losses:
74-71 on a neutral court vs Iowa (KP #32, NET #35)
76-58 on a neutral court vs Loyola Chicago (KP #237, NET #283)
60-58 at South Carolina (KP #235, NET #272)
Some good-not-great wins (nothing close to beating Connecticut, Baylor, or maybe even Creighton), one acceptable loss and two absolutely horrendous losses.
The only explanation for their ranking is looking strictly at win-loss record and incorrectly assuming beating Duke at home is a huge accomplishment this season.
What pleases you more ... MU moved up 5 spots this week (AP 20, Coaches 18) or that both Wisconsin and Duke are out of the top 25?
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
I don't remember how to access individual polls, but did UConn voter, Dave Borges really leave Marquette off his ballot?
I will laugh out loud if he really did that.
He did. Here you go:
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2022
Marquette moving up.
What pleases you more ... MU moved up 5 spots this week (AP 20, Coaches 18) or that both Wisconsin and Duke are out of the top 25?Yes
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
What pleases you more ... MU moved up 5 spots this week (AP 20, Coaches 18) or that both Wisconsin and Duke are out of the top 25?
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
MU moved up 5 spots this week (AP 20, Coaches 18)
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
had a couple of thoughts looking at the polls. How sweet is it in the AP to see UNC get one vote?
And nothing for Creighton in the Coaches' (unless I missed it)? They have a good shot to come back and make that poll look bad.
Creighton is 10-8……..nobody is ranked when they are 10-8.
20
Didn't really know where to put this, but if you're reading this, click the link and listen to this 1 minute talking point on this Marquette team. It is so good and something everyone on here should try and live by to get the most out of your viewing experience. Great stuff from Joe and Phil.
https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1615464939568734214?t=NA-ojTYwHumvpj3fJ9pyPQ&s=19
Glad you turned over a new leaf ;)Shire leaf, Gandalf?
Marquette #18 Coaches Poll Awesome Thank You
Didn't really know where to put this, but if you're reading this, click the link and listen to this 1 minute talking point on this Marquette team. It is so good and something everyone on here should try and live by to get the most out of your viewing experience. Great stuff from Joe and Phil.
https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1615464939568734214?t=NA-ojTYwHumvpj3fJ9pyPQ&s=19
I’ll wait for the TAMU list of how everyone ranked in front of us did. He sure knows ball.
Taking my own stab...Likely Passing: Clemson, Charleston, Miami, UConn
- #19 Clemson[/b] lost @ Wake Forest, won v Virginia Tech
- #18 Charleston won v William & Mary, won @ Monmouth, won v Northeastern
- #17 Miami won v Syracuse, lost @ Duke
- #16 Auburn won @ LSU, won @ South Carolina
- #15 UConn lost @ Seton Hall
- #14 TCU lost @ West Virginia, won @ #2 Kansas
- #13 Kansas State won v #2 Kansas, won v Texas Tech
- #12 Iowa State won v #7 Texas, lost @ Oklahoma State
- #8 Xavier lost @ DePaul
- #6 Gonzaga lost v Loyola-Marymount
Maybe Passing: TCU, Iowa State, Xavier
Unlikely Passing: Auburn, Kansas State, Gonzaga
Range is probably 13-16. I'll say 14 (passing the first four, Iowa State, and Xavier).
Taking my own stab...Likely Passing: Clemson, Charleston, Miami, UConn
- #19 Clemson lost @ Wake Forest, won v Virginia Tech
- #18 Charleston won v William & Mary, won @ Monmouth, won v Northeastern
- #17 Miami won v Syracuse, lost @ Duke
- #16 Auburn won @ LSU, won @ South Carolina
- #15 UConn lost @ Seton Hall
- #14 TCU lost @ West Virginia, won @ #2 Kansas
- #13 Kansas State won v #2 Kansas, won v Texas Tech
- #12 Iowa State won v #7 Texas, lost @ Oklahoma State
- #8 Xavier lost @ DePaul
- #6 Gonzaga lost v Loyola-Marymount
Maybe Passing: TCU, Iowa State, Xavier
Unlikely Passing: Auburn, Kansas State, Gonzaga
Range is probably 13-16. I'll say 14 (passing the first four, Iowa State, and Xavier).
Didn't really know where to put this, but if you're reading this, click the link and listen to this 1 minute talking point on this Marquette team. It is so good and something everyone on here should try and live by to get the most out of your viewing experience. Great stuff from Joe and Phil.
https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1615464939568734214?t=NA-ojTYwHumvpj3fJ9pyPQ&s=19
Taking my own stab...Likely Passing: Clemson, Charleston, Miami, UConn
- #19 Clemson lost @ Wake Forest, won v Virginia Tech
- #18 Charleston won v William & Mary, won @ Monmouth, won v Northeastern
- #17 Miami won v Syracuse, lost @ Duke
- #16 Auburn won @ LSU, won @ South Carolina
- #15 UConn lost @ Seton Hall
- #14 TCU lost @ West Virginia, won @ #2 Kansas
- #13 Kansas State won v #2 Kansas, won v Texas Tech
- #12 Iowa State won v #7 Texas, lost @ Oklahoma State
- #8 Xavier lost @ DePaul
- #6 Gonzaga lost v Loyola-Marymount
Maybe Passing: TCU, Iowa State, Xavier
Unlikely Passing: Auburn, Kansas State, Gonzaga
Range is probably 13-16. I'll say 14 (passing the first four, Iowa State, and Xavier).
MU will be just fine.What is even the point of this post
What is even the point of this post
IronyIrony
MU now #8 in Pomeroy (don’t know what we were going into Seton Hall)
I don't see Wisconsin in the top 50.
According to trank and kenpom Wisconsin isn't dancing.
According to trank and kenpom Wisconsin isn't dancing.
Borges has us at 19.
Chris Murray 22 (n/r before)
We have to be number one in Kenpom before we get into his top 20.
Chris Murray 22 (n/r before)
This guy replied to someone on twitter last week that 5 losses including one to a "bad" SEC team held him back from ranking MU (and apparently have a low rank this week)
What is the typical PR effort from a university to help get eyeballs on a program. I can't believe that 9 individuals don't have Marquette even in their top 25. I know the writer in Madison was called out earlier this year for mistakenly selecting a wrong school. how about these bozos.
Chris Murray - Reno, NV
Dave Borges - New Hew Haven, CT
Percy Allen - Seattle, WA
Jerry DiPaola - Pittsburgh, PA
David Cloninger - Columbia, SC
Justin Jackson, Morgantown, WV
Dave Preston, Washington, DC
Greg Madia - Charlottesville, VA
Kevin, Sjuts - Lincoln, NE
Calling @PaintTouches - would love to see a tweet with these guys tagged asking what we need to do, to crack their personal top 25 lists
What is the typical PR effort from a university to help get eyeballs on a program. I can't believe that 9 individuals don't have Marquette even in their top 25. I know the writer in Madison was called out earlier this year for mistakenly selecting a wrong school. how about these bozos.
Chris Murray - Reno, NV
Dave Borges - New Hew Haven, CT
Percy Allen - Seattle, WA
Jerry DiPaola - Pittsburgh, PA
David Cloninger - Columbia, SC
Justin Jackson, Morgantown, WV
Dave Preston, Washington, DC
Greg Madia - Charlottesville, VA
Kevin, Sjuts - Lincoln, NE
Calling @PaintTouches - would love to see a tweet with these guys tagged asking what we need to do, to crack their personal top 25 lists
Chris Murray 22 (n/r before)
What is the typical PR effort from a university to help get eyeballs on a program. I can't believe that 9 individuals don't have Marquette even in their top 25. I know the writer in Madison was called out earlier this year for mistakenly selecting a wrong school. how about these bozos.
Chris Murray - Reno, NV
Dave Borges - New Hew Haven, CT
Percy Allen - Seattle, WA
Jerry DiPaola - Pittsburgh, PA
David Cloninger - Columbia, SC
Justin Jackson, Morgantown, WV
Dave Preston, Washington, DC
Greg Madia - Charlottesville, VA
Kevin, Sjuts - Lincoln, NE
Calling @PaintTouches - would love to see a tweet with these guys tagged asking what we need to do, to crack their personal top 25 lists
What is the typical PR effort from a university to help get eyeballs on a program. I can't believe that 9 individuals don't have Marquette even in their top 25. I know the writer in Madison was called out earlier this year for mistakenly selecting a wrong school. how about these bozos.
Chris Murray - Reno, NV
Dave Borges - New Hew Haven, CT
Percy Allen - Seattle, WA
Jerry DiPaola - Pittsburgh, PA
David Cloninger - Columbia, SC
Justin Jackson, Morgantown, WV
Dave Preston, Washington, DC
Greg Madia - Charlottesville, VA
Kevin, Sjuts - Lincoln, NE
Calling @PaintTouches - would love to see a tweet with these guys tagged asking what we need to do, to crack their personal top 25 lists
Andy Katz has us 19th in his Power 36. Below College of Charleston. That's embarassing.
What is the typical PR effort from a university to help get eyeballs on a program. I can't believe that 9 individuals don't have Marquette even in their top 25. I know the writer in Madison was called out earlier this year for mistakenly selecting a wrong school. how about these bozos.
Chris Murray - Reno, NV
Dave Borges - New Hew Haven, CT
Percy Allen - Seattle, WA
Jerry DiPaola - Pittsburgh, PA
David Cloninger - Columbia, SC
Justin Jackson, Morgantown, WV
Dave Preston, Washington, DC
Greg Madia - Charlottesville, VA
Kevin, Sjuts - Lincoln, NE
Calling @PaintTouches - would love to see a tweet with these guys tagged asking what we need to do, to crack their personal top 25 lists
I don't think Marquette does anything to reach out to those voters, because in the end it really isn't that big of a deal.
But I guess we can now "the voters" to the list of People Who Officially Hate Marquette Basketball, alongside the referees and the announcers.
Wait....MU still is not ranked by all 9 of these guys? Or is this from last week?
Kevin one that i really don't understand either. The dude is in Creighton's backyard and is an "award winning sports journalist"...yet doesn't even have Marquette as a top 25? He has 5 loss Illinois at 22 and 5 Loss Rutgers at 25. Can't tell me is based off record alone.
I wish voters would keep that same energy for Gonzaga when they lose to Loyola Marymount and Pacific, but they have a built in pass annually.
MUScoop when the team is boarderline top 25: I don't want to be ranked. Every time we get ranked we lose. I like being the underdog and disrespected.
Also MUScoop when people don't rank us: @ THESE GUYS!
We really are that fanbase.
I don't think Marquette does anything to reach out to those voters, because in the end it really isn't that big of a deal.
But I guess we can now "the voters" to the list of People Who Officially Hate Marquette Basketball, alongside the referees and the announcers.
I don't think Marquette does anything to reach out to those voters, because in the end it really isn't that big of a deal.
But I guess we can now "the voters" to the list of People Who Officially Hate Marquette Basketball, alongside the referees and the announcers.
Kevin one that i really don't understand either. The dude is in Creighton's backyard and is an "award winning sports journalist"...yet doesn't even have Marquette as a top 25? He has 5 loss Illinois at 22 and 5 Loss Rutgers at 25. Can't tell me is based off record alone.
I think we overestimate how much time goes into these rankings. I think if we asked 30 Scoopers to rank the Top 25, we’d get a few wild ballots.
But i think it "could" be a big deal. Rankings, of any kind, always give a brand a credible reason to promote themselves. I know it's been brought up before, but top 25 puts you on sports center, is a reason that national media has to at the very least mention you, gives guys like Fanta a reason cover you more in-depth, etc.
If it were me, I'd be sending weekly scores and highlight reels to every person on that list, ensuring the MU brand is front and center every sunday night/monday morning.
I'm curious if the AP poll still has the same reach and causes consequential engagement bump from a school being ranked as it once did. I mean it mainly got out to so many people because of newspapers.
I'm curious if the AP poll still has the same reach and causes consequential engagement bump from a school being ranked as it once did. I mean it mainly got out to so many people because of newspapers.
MUScoop when the team is boarderline top 25: I don't want to be ranked. Every time we get ranked we lose. I like being the underdog and disrespected.
Also MUScoop when people don't rank us: @ THESE GUYS!
We really are that fanbase.
Just to be clear…….If the season ended today TRank says they would be in…….you are correct that their simulations predict they will miss when all,is said and done
https://barttorvik.com/tranketology-now.php
16 for Mark Berman (stayed at 16)
If we asked 30 Scoopers if the sun is hot, we’d get a few wild responses
I'm willing to bet the casual basketball fan pays more attention to the AP poll, compared to the NET Ranking (which is the one that actually matters). It's also the AP poll number next to teams on game day, not their NET ranking.
I got an ESPN notification that said we're ranked 14th. But haven't been able to find anything on twitter to confirm it.
that's ESPN's basketball POWER Rankings. now AP or coaches polls
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
16
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
16
Can someone please link the site that shows the ranking data of each writer? Struggling to locate, and thanks in advance.
Can someone please link the site that shows the ranking data of each writer? Struggling to locate, and thanks in advance.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/
Hasn't been updated yet for week 12.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2022
Just bookmarked it last week!
So what is more significant; the AP/Coaches poll or the NET/Kenpom?
So what is more significant; the AP/Coaches poll or the NET/Kenpom?
NET is more significant for bracketology purposes………AP has the best PR value
Didn't know that part existed on trank. But how is the #71 team in.... when there's 64 teams, and a bunch go to auto conference bids.
Thanks fellas.
Week 12 voter breakdown for Marquette.
But i think it "could" be a big deal. Rankings, of any kind, always give a brand a credible reason to promote themselves. I know it's been brought up before, but top 25 puts you on sports center, is a reason that national media has to at the very least mention you, gives guys like Fanta a reason cover you more in-depth, etc.
If it were me, I'd be sending weekly scores and highlight reels to every person on that list, ensuring the MU brand is front and center every sunday night/monday morning.
Percy Allen of the Seattle Times - if the collective scoop wants me to pay him a visit....
So you want to use Marquette's limited marketing resources to inform the voters of how great Marquette basketball team is doing, so they move Marquette up from somewhere around the mid-teens to somewhere around 12 or so?
Don't get me wrong, I get why being ranked is important, but in the end we are only talking around pretty small benefits marginally.
A few reasons. First, T-Rank isn't on the team sheet, so that 71 is meaningless when it comes to selection. Second, the two resume metrics (KPI & SOR) have the best inclusion correlation, and UW has an average rank of 29.0 there. Third, they are 6-5 vs Q1+2 with no bad losses. That's better than virtually anyone on the bubble. And last, none of their metrics (64 NET, 59 KP/BPI/SAG average) are bad enough to keep them out.
If the tourney was today, they are a lock to get in, though in the 9-11 range.
Plus, I doubt Percy is going to respond well to someone from MU sending him a note saying please rank us next time.
Plus, I doubt Percy is going to respond well to someone from MU sending him a note saying please rank us next time.
A few reasons. First, T-Rank isn't on the team sheet, so that 71 is meaningless when it comes to selection. Second, the two resume metrics (KPI & SOR) have the best inclusion correlation, and UW has an average rank of 29.0 there. Third, they are 6-5 vs Q1+2 with no bad losses. That's better than virtually anyone on the bubble. And last, none of their metrics (64 NET, 59 KP/BPI/SAG average) are bad enough to keep them out.
If the tourney was today, they are a lock to get in, though in the 9-11 range.
funny - you can click into each pollster's details and it computes teams they are biased for and against. pretty cool
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias (https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias)
funny - you can click into each pollster's details and it computes teams they are biased for and against. pretty cool
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias (https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias)
funny - you can click into each pollster's details and it computes teams they are biased for and against. pretty cool
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias (https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias)
I was going to egg Percy's house, but they're too expensive.Was it wrong of me to send an email to his HR department?
Was it wrong of me to send an email to his HR department?It's acceptable if you can pair it with some holocaust-denier plagiarism.
Marquette imo has the highest ceiling by far among the BEast teams. Keep the train rolling and we can snag a #2 seed without question.
Creighton is really good……not a coin flip game at their place.
Marquette imo has the highest ceiling by far among the BEast teams. Keep the train rolling and we can snag a #2 seed without question.
Think we move up to 9 or 10. Kansas (the most overrated team in the country) is about to get smoked by UK which would be their 4th straight loss and should drop them down to 20ish.4 straight losses deserves a #30 placement.
Think we move up to 9 or 10. Kansas (the most overrated team in the country) is about to get smoked by UK which would be their 4th straight loss and should drop them down to 20ish.
Umm... this post did not age well.
If forced to choose the most likely loss on the remainder of MU’s regular-season schedule, I’d say Creighton. When healthy and on, they’re tough. Very good starting lineup and significant homecourt advantage.
Gonna be extra satisfying to win that one.
Umm... this post did not age well.
Expected more from Kentucky but they arent good this year either. Regardless Kansas has a murderers row the next three weeks where they play 5 ranked teams.GoodBad luck.
Expected more from Kentucky but they arent good this year either. Regardless Kansas has a murderers row the next three weeks where they play 5 ranked teams. Good luck.
My guess for tomorrow:
1. Purdue
2. Tennessee
3. Houston
4. Arizona
5. Virginia
6. Kansas State
7. Alabama
8. Kansas
9. Texas
10. UCLA
11. Baylor
12. Gonzaga
13. Xavier
14. Marquette
I think we hop over #11 TCU, #12 Iowa State, and #15 Auburn but get hopped by #17 Baylor. I think X will end up just above us in votes with only a few dozen separating us. Additionally in this scenario, #s 6-10 all stay in the top 10 despite all losing this week. That means the gap between the top 10 and us is closing.
My guess for tomorrow:
1. Purdue
2. Tennessee
3. Houston
4. Arizona
5. Virginia
6. Kansas State
7. Alabama
8. Kansas
9. Texas
10. UCLA
11. Baylor
12. Gonzaga
13. Xavier
14. Marquette
I think we hop over #11 TCU, #12 Iowa State, and #15 Auburn but get hopped by #17 Baylor. I think X will end up just above us in votes with only a few dozen separating us. Additionally in this scenario, #s 6-10 all stay in the top 10 despite all losing this week. That means the gap between the top 10 and us is closing.
Ia St and TCU lost to good teams on the road yesterday and won their other games this week, including Ia St beating K St. I don’t think either falls that many spots down.
A single win over DePaul doesn’t really move the needle. We do probably jump over Auburn though. Baylor may pass us, a six spot jump is pretty generous for them, but we’ll see.
Hutch,
Don't be surprised if we still pass them both and are ahead of Baylor. :)
Nothing would surprise me. I just don’t think either IA St or TCU played their way down much, if any. Neither loss yesterday was close to a bad one. And unfortunately, we only could play DePaul this week.
The RPI still exists?
Here : https://myspace.com/
I think we will stick at 16
I think we will stick at 16
Texas won't be 9th and Xavier won't be ahead of MU. I'm gonna go with 12th.
Ia St and TCU lost to good teams on the road yesterday and won their other games this week, including Ia St beating K St. I don’t think either falls that many spots down.
A single win over DePaul doesn’t really move the needle. We do probably jump over Auburn though. Baylor may pass us, a six spot jump is pretty generous for them, but we’ll see.
I don't think they'll be punished too harshly either, I would guess they end up in the two slots right behind us. Iowa State I would have kept ahead of us if Mizzou didn't hand their a$$es to them. TCU, I don't disagree that Mississippi State isn't a bad loss on paper...but the voters will see a supposed top 15 team losing to a team that was on a 5 game losing skid and had lost 8 of 9. I think voters will punish them a little bit.
I didn’t realize Miss St was on that bad of a skid. Yeah, that could mean TCU slides more. Unfortunately, I just remember our loss to them in November. Thanks.
Bozich 8 (15 last week)
Chris Murray has MU up to 15 (from 22)
https://nevadasportsnet.com/news/reporters/murrays-ap-top-25-the-secs-tigers-head-in-different-directions
Dave Preston has MU at 10
https://twitter.com/davpresto/status/1620073264528920578
Should be a top-10 team. Metrics have them there and the results also have them as a top-10 team.
Should be a top-10 team. Metrics have them there and the results also have them as a top-10 team.
The metrics are the only thing that really matters. I know I’m “that guy”, but the polls are meaningless.
Everyone can yell at me now.
The metrics are the only thing that really matters. I know I’m “that guy”, but the polls are meaningless.
Everyone can yell at me now.
polls should be ignored
Polls are fun, and just about all of us talk about them -- including you, Unk!
They "matter" only as an ego-stroker for Marquette fans and as a very small image-booster nationally.
Obviously the NET is more important. It's not even close. But I'd always rather be ranked than unranked. Always.
I honestly don't know all of the components for tournament seeding but some of the NET seems off to me. Ohio St. #29??? Perhaps the #74 rating of Wisky is accurate but there are some head scratching numbers.
Polls are fun, and just about all of us talk about them -- including you, Unk!
They "matter" only as an ego-stroker for Marquette fans and as a very small image-booster nationally.
Obviously the NET is more important. It's not even close. But I'd always rather be ranked than unranked. Always.
I honestly don't know all of the components for tournament seeding but some of the NET seems off to me. Ohio St. #29??? Perhaps the #74 rating of Wisky is accurate but there are some head scratching numbers.
I honestly don't know all of the components for tournament seeding but some of the NET seems off to me. Ohio St. #29??? Perhaps the #74 rating of Wisky is accurate but there are some head scratching numbers.
Big 10, er 14 teams get too much credit for being in the Big 10 versus actually being good teams.
Ohio State is similar to Iowa last season. They earned their NET rating by beating the everliving crap out of bad teams:
38 point win over #249 Robert Morris
37 point win over #327 St. Francis (PA)
34 point win over #267 Maine
31 point win over #342 Alabama A&M
26 point win over #269 Charleston Southern
22 point win over #340 Eastern Illinois
They also got big blowouts over a decent Cincy team (28 points), a good Iowa team (16 points), and a good Northwestern team on the road (16 points). Combine that with 7/10 of their losses being Q1A and an 8th being Q1B and you have an inflated NET score for a team currently projected to be on the wrong side of the bubble. Fortunately NET isn't everything and the committee can weed these teams out.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/2022/week-13
We now officially show up as biased against by Percy Allen. He has Auburn in his top 10, and three Beast teams on his ballot, with us not being one of them.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/2022/week-13
We now officially show up as biased against by Percy Allen. He has Auburn in his top 10, and three Beast teams on his ballot, with us not being one of them.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/2022/week-13
We now officially show up as biased against by Percy Allen. He has Auburn in his top 10, and three Beast teams on his ballot, with us not being one of them.
Not sure if that is right. The AP site shows he had us 15 this week.
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll?voter=Percy%20Allen
Not sure if that is right. The AP site shows he had us 15 this week.
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll?voter=Percy%20Allen
Baylor and Providence each skyrocketed 6 spots.
Yea I think my link is wrong since Purdue shows up as unanimous no. 1 on the AP website, but his top 25 on collegepolltracker still has Bama.
My guess for tomorrow:
1. Purdue
2. Tennessee
3. Houston
4. Arizona
5. Virginia
6. Kansas State
7. Alabama
8. Kansas
9. Texas
10. UCLA
11. Baylor
12. Gonzaga
13. Xavier
14. Marquette
I think we hop over #11 TCU, #12 Iowa State, and #15 Auburn but get hopped by #17 Baylor. I think X will end up just above us in votes with only a few dozen separating us. Additionally in this scenario, #s 6-10 all stay in the top 10 despite all losing this week. That means the gap between the top 10 and us is closing.
How does Gonzaga move up two spots after losing to an unranked team?
How does Baylor leap over us when we destroyed them?
Gonzaga didn't lose to an unranked team this week, that was last week. They beat two nobodies by double digits this week.
Baylor was only a few votes behind us last week and beat top 10 Kansas and projected NCAAT team Arkansas. We beat DePaul.
14) MU
16) X
17) PC
24) UConn
29) Crieghton
Ah yes. Without losing this week, we are leapfrogged by a team that we completely blew out of the gym in November.
14th, but as close to 8th as we are to 17th.
[/quote)
Thank you
Silly that Baylor leapfrogs Marquette but whatever, fun to have a top-15 team again
Think it might still be in the process of updating.
Why is there still a coaches poll? Does anyone use it?
voter details is still updating - you can hit refresh and see new entries each time... I want to see Percy's vote :)
Alabama drops 2 spots after losing by 100? Please.
14th, but as close to 8th as we are to 17th.
Get a clue. There is no number 29.If they called it the "AP Top 30" there would be a #29. And it would be Creighton.
Some pretty clear tiers in the AP poll this week:
Tier 1:
Purdue (1550)
Tennessee (1443)
Houston (1415)
Tier 2:
Alabama (1312)
Arizona (1310)
Virginia (1258)
Kansas State (1190)
Tier 3:
Kansas (1034)
UCLA (993)
Texas (939)
Baylor (905)
Gonzaga (837)
Iowa State (832)
Marquette (769)
TCU (752)
Xavier (689)
Tier 4:
Providence (438)
St. Mary's (419)
FAU (392)
Clemson (340)
Tweener:
Indiana (250)
Tier 5:
The rest
I think if we keep winning, any loss by the Tier 3 teams ahead of us will result in us jumping them. And wouldn't you know it, there are two matchups of tier 3 teams this week, KU at IAST and Texas at Baylor. Win our two and I think we move up at least two spots, though TCU is a threat to leapfrog.
If they called it the "AP Top 30" there would be a #29. And it would be Creighton.
If they called it the "AP Top 30" there would be a #29. And it would be Creighton.
Percy has Marquette at #15 (from NR last week).coaches poll 12
I miss when ESPN used to list the AP Top 25 with results and schedule for each team (i.e., their results from the previous week and their schedule for this week) all on one page.
Any sites out there still doing that?
Thanks
If they called it the "AP Top 30" there would be a #29. And it would be Creighton.
coaches poll 12’coaches’ in name only. More like team managers, ball boys and gifted critters
I'm pretty sure someone proved this false
Percy has Marquette at #15 (from NR last week).
How about this..."Within the current system of voting for top 25 teams, Creighton is #29" :)
Muggs …
Love your enthusiasm…
But MU is not going to “ take over “
Tier 2. That would require winning out … or 1 loss.
Let’s just win 2 this week
Ya....that's bcrap. But no biggie.
I miss when ESPN used to list the AP Top 25 with results and schedule for each team (i.e., their results from the previous week and their schedule for this week) all on one page.
Any sites out there still doing that?
Thanks
You do realize that there’s no way to reconcile every head to head result, even when the teams are reasonably close otherwise.
And you do realize that we took that team to the cleaners and the game was over within 7 mins? #b-crap
Only if they called it the AP top 30 and still only gave everyone 25 votes. If they gave everyone 30 votes, we have no idea where Creighton would fall.
But everyone knows what people mean when they say Creighton is #29.
And you do realize that we took that team to the cleaners and the game was over within 7 mins? #b-crap
That’s one game.
You really need to take a step back and try to be as objective as possible. If you do that you’ll see there are going to be a lot of examples of teams with somewhat comparable profiles that had head to head meetings, but the loser of the game is rated higher.
Is it #b-crap that Kansas is rated higher than TCU? Does it matter than MU has fewer games against rated teams and has two losses against teams that are not just unranked, but aren’t currently projected to be in the NCAA field.
If that doesn’t help, then consider that these rankings are completely unimportant and aren’t worth getting upset about.
I'm not upset. But I believe if we play to our potential we can get a 2 seed or a 3 at worst.
The AP rankings have absolutely zero impact on what seed we end up getting, so there's no real correlation here.
The AP rankings have absolutely zero impact on what seed we end up getting, so there's no real correlation here.
If we should be ahead of Baylor because we beat Baylor, shouldn’t X be ahead of us because X beat us? I think I learnt that in my Logic class at MU.Worse, the Bagders would be ahead of us.
If we should be ahead of Baylor because we beat Baylor, shouldn’t X be ahead of us because X beat us? I think I learnt that in my Logic class at MU.Yes, and therefore Socrates is mortal. I didn't really understand that much in logic class but I do remember that was the answer.
Marquette 12 in coaches poll
Yes, and therefore Socrates is mortal. I didn't really understand that much in logic class but I do remember that was the answer.
No idea why Baylor is ahead of MU, but classic bias vs big east I guess.
My favorite from freshman Logic (which I believe was Philosophy 1?) was:
I love you.
All the world loves a lover, and you are all the world to me.
Therefore, you love me.
How many stalking complaints were filed against you?
I also have Baylor ahead of Marquette in my most recent S-Curve/bracket. As decisive as Marquette's win in Milwaukee was, it was one data point in a season that is now 85 days old. The biggest difference for me is the location of their best wins. Marquette's three best wins (UConn, Baylor, Creighton) all came at home. Baylor has comparable wins (UCLA, Kansas, Gonzaga) but two of those were on neutral courts. Baylor also doesn't have any losses to unranked teams, or teams outside Quadrant 1. Marquette has two such losses. Baylor has also done that against a tougher strength of schedule.
They're pretty close, but if I had an AP vote, I'd put Baylor over Marquette and at this point they have the better resume of the two.
How many stalking complaints were filed against you?There was no stalking back in the good old days. It all started with wokeness.
I also have Baylor ahead of Marquette in my most recent S-Curve/bracket. As decisive as Marquette's win in Milwaukee was, it was one data point in a season that is now 85 days old. The biggest difference for me is the location of their best wins. Marquette's three best wins (UConn, Baylor, Creighton) all came at home. Baylor has comparable wins (UCLA, Kansas, Gonzaga) but two of those were on neutral courts. Baylor also doesn't have any losses to unranked teams, or teams outside Quadrant 1. Marquette has two such losses. Baylor has also done that against a tougher strength of schedule.Numbers are numbers, but there also is the eye test. I watched the second half of the Texas/Baylor game, and I came away believing MU would beat Baylor in a rematch.
They're pretty close, but if I had an AP vote, I'd put Baylor over Marquette and at this point they have the better resume of the two.
We are past "hoping we win" against a team like Butler.
The correct clause is, "After we win ... "
I think he correctly used the phrase "assuming a win tomorrow".
Ranking about the same. NET drops unless it is a 20 point win.
It will be.
Ranking about the same. NET drops unless it is a 20 point win.
Should I bet on it? ;)
Should I bet on it? ;)
Coming in from Indianapolis, and morning radio likes to point out that Butlers best loss in conference is 15. When they lose, they like to make it a spectacle.
That being said, trying to wait out 14.5 as I don’t trust the walk-on period at the end of the game.
I'm not a gambler, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But since the start of conference play, Butler has played like the #245 team in the country per Torvik. That's last in the Big East, way behind DePaul and Georgetown. Against top-5 Big East teams (UConn, X, Creighton, Providence) they have lost every game by 20+. As mentioned, their closest loss was 15 in conference play in Newark. On our side, we've played 2 games against the bottom 3 in the league and won both by 20+. And Lukas Harkins pointed out their primary ball handler left the SHU game with a concussion last week and there's no timetable on his return. (Hypothetically he could be back today, but no word on if he's cleared or practicing)
In conference play, they are last in offense, last in eFG%, and last in offensive rebounding. They can't score and can't take advantage of our weaknesses. They have no depth against a team that will make them work for everything. And the crowd is going to be on fire.
Honestly, I don't think they can set the line high enough. -14.5 or -15.5? Take Marquette. -20? Take Marquette. -25? Take Marquette. I think this will be ugly in the best possible way.
Would a loss at home drop us out altogether?A loss would turn our b-ball team into a non-scholarship sport.
Would a loss at home drop us out altogether?
I want to give you credit for attempting to be sarcastic/funny, but then again you usually are a liberal user of teal.
Bottom linen8s, another conference win today will be sweet. Especially this time of year. Goo Marquette!I just want to see 'bottom linen8s' immortalized before Daniel goes back and edits. Silly phones.
I just want to see 'bottom linen8s' immortalized before Daniel goes back and edits. Silly phones.
I want to give you credit for attempting to be sarcastic/funny, but then again you usually are a liberal user of teal.
I want to give you credit for attempting to be sarcastic/funny, but then again you usually are a liberal user of teal.
I have very little doubt we will lose today, but it is still a legitimate question is it not?
I just want to see 'bottom linen8s' immortalized before Daniel goes back and edits. Silly phones.
What happens if the Chinese balloon veers over Milwaukee, explodes and drops all of its contents on the Fiserv Forum roof?
It's a legitimate question.
But failing miserably.
Coming in from Indianapolis, and morning radio likes to point out that Butlers best loss in conference is 15. When they lose, they like to make it a spectacle.
That being said, trying to wait out 14.5 as I don’t trust the walk-on period at the end of the game.for the entire 2nd half.
I did not realize my question would be so offensive.
I want to give you credit for attempting to be sarcastic/funny, but then again you usually are a liberal user of teal.
Duh! No teal.
Ranking about the same. NET drops unless it is a 20 point win.
What happens if the Chinese balloon veers over Milwaukee, explodes and drops all of its contents on the Fiserv Forum roof?are you legit is the question
It's a legitimate question.
I don’t think MU can be ranked any higher. Look who’s up there. Sure, there will be some movement up and down, like after today when Purdue, Virginia and Kansas all lost. There’s no reason voters would move MU up because they beat Butler. I hope Gonzaga loses tonight.
The bobber is floating as high as it can. But that’s okay with me.
#1. Finally got a close win
I think we will be 12-14 this week. Don’t see any way we are top 10. But ranked is good pub for the university and recruiting. Thank you Shaka, staff and team! Unreal in Year 2
Love to see top 10 but I think we'll be 11-12. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see X jump us -- same record both overall and conference, beat us head-to-head, both wins this week more impressive than ours.Hopefully X losing to DePaul keeps them below us.
ISU is very interesting.Life in the Big 12
Since early Jan:
2 pt loss @ #8 KU
Win #7 UT
Loss @ unranked OSU
Win #5 KSU
Loss @ unranked Mizzou
Loss @ unranked TT
Win #8 KU
ISU is very interesting.
Since early Jan:
2 pt loss @ #8 KU
Win #7 UT
Loss @ unranked OSU
Win #5 KSU
Loss @ unranked Mizzou
Loss @ unranked TT
Win #8 KU
ISU is very interesting.
Since early Jan:
2 pt loss @ #8 KU
Win #7 UT
Loss @ unranked OSU
Win #5 KSU
Loss @ unranked Mizzou
Loss @ unranked TT
Win #8 KU
12 in the ESPN power rankings, up from 13.They still have Uconn at 7.
They still have Uconn at 7.#7 BPI (that also has 11-12 Ohio St at #25)
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
The bottom of the conference is no doubt weak, but having 5 top 25 teams is pretty impressive for a "down year".
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1622642201879511058?s=20
10
10/10
Looking for a little help from the other teams above us.
1. Purdue
2. Houston (Assuming a win @Temple tomorrow)
3. Alabama
4. Arizona
5. Texas
6. Tennessee
7. UCLA
8. Virginia
9. Kansas
10. Marquette
Thanks, Matt TaiNt
Who tf is Matt Taint
haha, beat me to it by 6 seconds ;D
Marquette #10 In Coaches Poll
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Voters are pretty predictable, though I admit that I though K-State would end up in the 11 spot.
Get @ him, Scoop!Done
When was the last time MU was ranked in the top-10 in the AP & Coaches polls?
We're #10 nationally and Louisville is 3-20 -- amazing.
It all makes sense now... when the Big East coaches ranked MU 9th preseason they were confused and thought it was the national coaches poll! They were really spot on, good job!:) :D ;D
Test
As a "Hou (UH) Warrior (MU)" I have had dual loyalties for decades, but in over 40 years of one or the other being up or down
NEVER NEVER EVER
has both UH and MU BB been in the top 10 at the same time. As my local best friends are teasips, note UT is also in the tup 10.
The Final Four is here in HTown. I am ecstatic.
Except for the final big games this is the happiest I have ever been in my 55 year fandom.
Thank you Houston, Marquette and yes even Texas.
Please do your best to make it a HouWarrior Final Four at NRG.
Happy and Thankful
AP Poll vote distribution
(https://i.imgur.com/8toD8Yz.jpeg) (https://i.imgur.com/8toD8Yz.jpeg)
AP Poll vote distributionLove the spelling of "Baler"
(https://i.imgur.com/8toD8Yz.jpeg) (https://i.imgur.com/8toD8Yz.jpeg)
Love the spelling of "Baler"
Their logo is a baler too. I expect some rivalry shenanigans to be afoot hereok so that's actually awesome. I didn't look at it close enough to notice that.
"We also poke fun at the #N team in Week N, so Logo Baler at 14 is not a typo."Clearly I need to pay more attention to what I’m doing
Last week #13 was "IOUwa State" So next week, #15 will be a funny.
Clearly I need to pay more attention to what I’m doing
Dropped from 10 to 14 on Torvik. Offense didn't change much (still 3 there), but D dropped a bunch, down to 82. Pomeroy's computer hasn't crunched the numbers yet.
With Kansas State losing today and St Mary’s losing (shouts Stan Johnson) to LMU, I’m guessing 11. Baylor will jump us I think.
My guess for tomorrow:
1. Purdue (assuming a win tomorrow at Northwestern, drop to #3 if they lose)
2. Houston
3. Alabama
4. UCLA
5. Kansas
6. Virginia
7. Texas
8. Arizona
9. Baylor
10. Marquette
I think it will be very close between Tennessee and Marquette at 10/11. I think some voters will want to punish Tennessee for losing 3 of their last 4 and move them down significantly. Others will see a team with superior metrics and the same amount of losses as Marquette and keep them higher.
I don't think there are any other leapfrog candidates besides Baylor though Gonzaga and Indiana will both get significantly closer to Marquette. I'd probably slot them at 12/13 behind Tennessee.
It was on the reddit thread, for which Skat didn't provide a link!
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/10vztes/the_distribution_of_votes_in_the_ap_poll_week_14/
Carino dropped MU to 13 from 8.
Damn, that’s a big drop from our highest ranker. Not sure we’ll stay top 10, could see us at the 12 spot
February fade confirmed
February fade confirmed
14 in ESPN power rankings from 12
They have K-State at 10 despite losing 4 of 6 and Tennessee at 11 after losing 2 to unranked teams. 😳
They have K-State at 10 despite losing 4 of 6 and Tennessee at 11 after losing 2 to unranked teams. 😳
I will go with the 12 or 13. A little drop is fair after the UCONN game.
But who would they drop behind? 5 of the 7 teams behind them in the rankings lost as well (arguably all worse losses than @UConn). Of the two who didn't, one will for sure pass us, the other was over 300 votes behind us and had two meh home wins over teams outside of the top 80 in KenPom.
I don't see us falling lower than 11.
For heaven's sake, can the AP update. My son just broke his glasses in school and I have to bring him his backup pair (but need to slip him a piece of paper with our new ranking on it).
Yeah, but when you combine like 30 people who all have varying degrees of knowledge on the subject, you'll get more week to week variance than just looking at last week's performances. Obviously not telling you anything you don't know.
We've already seen some on the voters drop MU a good bit from last week. I think they'll land in that 12-13 range, but definitely see (and agree with) your opinion. Just don't think most of the voters really look at it that way, unfortunately.
What’s the damn holdup? Some chick vote for Miss valley state again???
#11
Wish we had a top ten program… sigh
With 62 people voting, you actually get less week to week variance and everything almost always moves based on the last week's results.
Right - I literally said its moves based on the previous weeks results. And Marquette got beat pretty good @UCONN in a game they were never in. They deserved to drop, and did. That's all I was saying.
Being ranked 11th is outstanding. And after we trounce X on Wednesday, and a few teams in front of us lose, we'll move up several spots. Life is good in MU Land!
9 voters did not have MUBB in the top 15 this week. (as far as 20)
15 voters had MUBB at 14 or 15.
14 voters had MUBB 11th.
8 voters had MUBB in the top 10. (7 the best)
Being ranked 11th is outstanding. And after we trounce X on Wednesday, and a few teams in front of us lose, we'll move up several spots. Life is good in MU Land!
Agreed 82. Take care of business at home and MU will be solidly inside the top 10 for the Creighton show down. What a great place to be. Love that they control their own destiny. Can’t ask for much better. I have a feeling the boys are going to be laser focused the rest of the way. That 9th place prediction I’m sure is very motivating. They are young but I think have the maturity and talent to pull it off.
Should Bama be ahead of Houston?
Two questions about Bama now #1
When was the last time their basketball team was better than the football team?
And why doesn't this ever come up?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/17/us/darius-miles-murder-charge-university-alabama-basketball-tuesday/index.html
January 17, 2023
After University of Alabama basketball player Darius Miles was charged with murder in the death of a 23-year-old mother and removed from the team, the victim’s loved ones say she was shot and killed when she declined a man trying to flirt with her.
Miles, 21, and Michael Lynn Davis, 20, were arrested and charged with capital murder in the shooting death of Jamea Jonae Harris near the university campus early Sunday, the Tuscaloosa Violent Crimes Unit said.
It came up plenty. It was all over Reddit. He is no longer on the team. What else do you want Bama to do about it?
Earlier today
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/new-mexico-state-cancels-mens-basketball-season-rcna70331
New Mexico State University’s men’s basketball season came to an abrupt halt Sunday after the release of a police report that detailed three players ganging up on a teammate and attacking him in a case that includes allegations of false imprisonment, harassment and criminal sexual contact.
“It’s time for this program to reset,” chancellor Dan Arvizu said in the statement that announced the end of the season.
---
So being mean to team-mates is worse then murdering a young mother?
Got it.
Earlier today
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/new-mexico-state-cancels-mens-basketball-season-rcna70331
New Mexico State University’s men’s basketball season came to an abrupt halt Sunday after the release of a police report that detailed three players ganging up on a teammate and attacking him in a case that includes allegations of false imprisonment, harassment and criminal sexual contact.
“It’s time for this program to reset,” chancellor Dan Arvizu said in the statement that announced the end of the season.
---
So being mean to team-mates is worse then murdering a young mother?
Got it.
Earlier today
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/new-mexico-state-cancels-mens-basketball-season-rcna70331
New Mexico State University’s men’s basketball season came to an abrupt halt Sunday after the release of a police report that detailed three players ganging up on a teammate and attacking him in a case that includes allegations of false imprisonment, harassment and criminal sexual contact.
“It’s time for this program to reset,” chancellor Dan Arvizu said in the statement that announced the end of the season.
---
So being mean to team-mates is worse then murdering a young mother?
Got it.
Good grief - how many threads have been taken over by this topic - it was wrong, so can we move on? 👀
Should Bama be ahead of Houston?
Sure. Unlike Houston, Bama plays in a real conference with at least one difficult game every week. Bama plays the 7th toughest schedule in the nation (per kenpom), while Houston's SOS is 141st.
Oh, and Bama won at Houston - a head-to-head matchup on the road.
When Marquette's in the Final Four, I'd rather face Houston than Alabama.
What makes you think Alabama or Houston will be in the Final Four? Why not UCONN, X and Creighton: an all Big East Final 4. Think Big, no teal needed.
What makes you think Alabama or Houston will be in the Final Four? Why not UCONN, X and Creighton: an all Big East Final 4. Think Big, no teal needed.
As Rico said, the funny thing is theres a super strong chance that when the bracket is announced it will be possible that 4 BE teams make the final 4.
Since we the league may control the 4/5 line.
What makes you think Alabama or Houston will be in the Final Four? Why not UCONN, X and Creighton: an all Big East Final 4. Think Big, no teal needed.
Creighton (with Kalkbrenner back) and UConn both profile as teams that should have Final Four aspirations. Xavier could get there, but I don't think the defense is strong enough. Marquette likewise doesn't have a strong enough defense, but I think the STYLE of play we run could benefit us in March. I think we're a hard team to prepare for in just a day or two, given the active hands on defense and the outrageous passing of Kolek and others.
Heise's been on one lately. Can always tell when he's not getting enough attention. Will make himself look foolish just for the shock value clicks it brings his posts.
I could be way off-base but I’m more bullish on offensive teams in March than defensive oriented teams.
My guess is 10. I predicted it last Monday while trolling a bunch of Illini fans.
If we didn’t lose to PC in 2OT and go from ranked to the back of the ORV line, we would be in the top 5 right now.
Whoa gang!
Let’s not worry about rankings. Don’t want that in our guys’ heads as they battle Farmer Bluejay tomorrow night!
I want the F@@k ‘em mentality that comes from being unrecognized. That boat may have sailed but the attitude shouldn’t.
If we didn’t lose to PC in 2OT and go from ranked to the back of the ORV line, we would be in the top 5 right now.
And if Oso didn't tip in against Xavier we would have dropped even further.
What is the point of these hypotheticals?
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1627716508997517317?t=FzpxCk4Ao_3WwI6B7YZ1MA&s=19
"I'M NOT LEAVIN, I'M NOT LEAVIN!"
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1627716508997517317?t=FzpxCk4Ao_3WwI6B7YZ1MA&s=19
"I'M NOT LEAVIN, I'M NOT LEAVIN!"
Well, OSO didn't.
Well, OSO didn't.
Duh. I meant Omax. You get my point though
I'll see your "let them feel disrespected" and raise you one "they need to practice feeling the pressure" in order to be ready for march! ;)
But hey, this is about enjoying the ride. Sign me up for single digit ranking!
Look, I’m all for enjoying the ride. But I want to get to someplace other than an AP ranking, which requires a “F@@k ‘em” Mentality this year.
I’m amazed that this is a transition year and we’re a Top 10 team. Now, go f@@k some Blue Jay
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1627716508997517317?t=FzpxCk4Ao_3WwI6B7YZ1MA&s=19
"I'M NOT LEAVIN, I'M NOT LEAVIN!"
A loss at Creighton is not going to hurt the resume.
A loss at Creighton is not going to hurt the resume.
And then Xavier went over to the side to call timeout and Stevie was still jawing at Boum. Stevie. Was. Still. Jawing. at. Boum. Stevie.
10 it is
A loss at Creighton is not going to hurt the resume.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1627716508997517317?t=FzpxCk4Ao_3WwI6B7YZ1MA&s=19
"I'M NOT LEAVIN, I'M NOT LEAVIN!"
Whoa gang!
Let’s not worry about rankings. Don’t want that in our guys’ heads as they battle Farmer Bluejay tomorrow night!
I want the F@@k ‘em mentality that comes from being unrecognized. That boat may have sailed but the attitude shouldn’t.
It may not exactly hurt the resume, but it opens the door for some teams currently right below MU to pass them from behind by picking up quality wins while MU plays 3 games that offer only downside potential.
IMHO a loss to Creighton puts MU very close to the 4/5 dividing line now that we know the Selection Committee had them at 14 on the seed list sometime last week when several bracketologists had them as a 3 seed.
Last week, there were nine voters who didn't rank MU in the top 15. This week there are only five who didn't rank MU in the top 12. That's actually pretty good progress.
Also, when MU was No. 10 previously, they were more than 1000 points behind No. 9. Only 45 points back from No. 9 now.
love that so muchI know someone who loved it more ;D
I think we should take the Saturday reveal with a grain of salt unless they say results after Tuesday night were included. Based on the timeline, it sounds like Wednesday morning was when this was finished. We could be on the 3/4 line right now.
It may not exactly hurt the resume, but it opens the door for some teams currently right below MU to pass them from behind by picking up quality wins while MU plays 3 games that offer only downside potential.
IMHO a loss to Creighton puts MU very close to the 4/5 dividing line now that we know the Selection Committee had them at 14 on the seed list sometime last week when several bracketologists had them as a 3 seed.
If we didn’t lose to PC in 2OT and go from ranked to the back of the ORV line, we would be in the top 5 right now.
This is silly. Being ranked won't be "in our guys' heads" during the game tomorrow. It doesn't affect the team at all -- it's a conversation starter for fans. Shaka has a bazillion ways to get their attention -- hell, he can keep going back to being picked 9th in the BEast preseason polls by the coaches. And he just got a great chip in not being a 3 seed in the bracket reveal. And he even can use the rankings.
"The polls might say we're top 10, and we know we're good, but a lot of America doesn't respect us. I mean, Baylor is still ranked ahead of us. Baylor! We effen destroyed them but they still get more respect that we do! Most of the coaches in this conference thought we were garbage before the season, and I'm sure most of them probably still do. Wouldn't be surprised if McDermott is one of 'em. And the NCAA tournament committee obviously doesn't respect what we've accomplished, so we have to accomplish even more. F%ck 'em!"
It's nice for fans that we're viewed by many as a top-10 program. But I doubt it changes our players' "f%ck 'em" attitude one iota.
Brother MU:
I do hope you're right. The only thing I expect is that when they cut the nets down as Regional Champions and National Champions, they do it the Marquette way -- with a switchblade. Also be nice if they chased away the ladder and Oso puts Tyler on his shoulders.
I rather thought the 2003 team might have read their press clippings too much. After destroying Kentucky, they were blasted to kingdom come by Kansas. That made no sense to me. They were a good team that thought they could do anything.
The 2019 team may have suffered from the same thing.
In any event, we're going to have to play good teams no matter what our rank or seeding is. Here's to cutting nets down the Marquette Way!
Newsie26
Could we get some movement, even down a tick or two? It is hard to have any discussions if we are always 26.
Newsie
Could we get some movement, even down a tick or two? It is hard to have any discussions if we are always 26.
7 and/or 8 if we win tonight.....
Don't assume.....
Have to take care of business but if they are able to they have a chance to finally get in the top 7. It’d be the first time in 45 years when they were ranked #3 in the 03/06/1978 poll.
Marquette was 6th in the final coach’s poll in 2003.
This will probably hurt MU's NET. But not their polls.Yup unfortunately seeding won't move.
Voters will really have some decisions to make this week. 5, 6 (2x), 7, 8, and 9 have all lost this week. It’s a good week to be ranked 10 and get two wins.
I’ll say 6.I agree with your #6 prognostication.
Number 6,7,8 and 9 all lost this week.
#5 Purdue plays tonight
Yup unfortunately seeding won't move.The 2nd half will force the Committee to move us to a 5 seed.
The 2nd half will force the Committee to move us to a 5 seed.I say 6
^^^ coaches don’t know Jack. I side w the AP voters, like the Madison chick. Wondering what she’s doing these days (for work)
^^^ coaches don’t know Jack. I side w the AP voters, like the Madison chick. Wondering what she’s doing these days (for work)
She's going to be an announcer on Fox next season. They are going to partner her with Pete Gillen.
So Gillen is going to Fox FROM CBS? Did they lose a bet? ;D
I say 6
^^^ coaches don’t know Jack. I side w the AP voters, like the Madison chick. Wondering what she’s doing these days (for work)
So ESPN's BPI Resume has us a 2 seed now. For what ever that is worth.
1. Kansas Jayhawks 1
2. Alabama Crimson Tide 1
3. Houston Cougars 1
4. Purdue Boilermakers 1
5. UCLA Bruins 2
6. Baylor Bears 2
7. Texas Longhorns 2
8. Marquette Golden Eagles 2
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/view/resume (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/view/resume)
ESPN hates us. So we are probably a 1 seed.
But seriously I think we are the 3rd 3 seed. Indiana jumps us again in the seed line with their W over Purdue.
Tomorrow at 11am, we will be #8
Purdue has faded from a 1 seed right now. To get it back they must start winning/go deep in Big 10/14/18 tourney/
ESPN hates us. So we are probably a 1 seed.
But seriously I think we are the 3rd 3 seed. Indiana jumps us again in the seed line with their W over Purdue.
Tomorrow at 11am, we will be #8
Indiana also had a bad loss to an average at best Michigan St team.
ESPN hates us. So we are probably a 1 seed.
But seriously I think we are the 3rd 3 seed. Indiana jumps us again in the seed line with their W over Purdue.
Tomorrow at 11am, we will be #8
If we make it to 8 that would be the highest ranking since… 2011?
Call me crazy but if it so happens that the last 2 seed is between us and Baylor, how is it conceivable that the committee would not look at the asssssswhooping we put on them head to head? Ty.
Head to head may matter in an absolute tie. I'm not certain it's possible for us to tie Baylor. Maybe if they go on a 3 game losing streak and we win out through the BET
Head to head may matter in an absolute tie. I'm not certain it's possible for us to tie Baylor. Maybe if they go on a 3 game losing streak and we win out through the BETYou are under rating us. In your scenario mu is a solid 2 seed. Winning the big east matters.
TAMU,
I don't foresee us not being a 2 seed if we win out. As far as I can tell Houston, Bama, and Kansas are pretty much #1 seed locks. After that I think it's a little up in the air. My gut tells me UCLA and Purdue probably won't fall to a 3 seed. Ergo, there should be three 2 seed spots open for a handful of teams, including Marquette. Now, because the B12 has 3 teams competing for these spots it may be to their advantage. Clearly the best scenario for us is for Zona to lose a game or two, and Texas to piss a few games away as well. I'm just curious what could happen if we and Baylor are fighting for that last #2...ya never know?
I don't think it's possible for MU to pass Texas, even if they lost out and we win out. Baylor, maybe if they lose out and we win out. Our best bets are Arizona and UCLA. Arizona losing yesterday helps but we still need more help
That’s crazy talk. A 10-loss UT on a four game skid isn’t getting seeded over a 6-loss double Big East champ with 9 straight wins…Agreed. It does not pass a common sense test.
That’s crazy talk. A 10-loss UT on a four game skid isn’t getting seeded over a 6-loss double Big East champ with 9 straight wins…
The committee thought very highly of Texas and had them as the top 2 seed (#5). They are 2-1 since the reveal and play 2 very tough games at the end of the year. I think it’d be a stretch to pass them. Though I’m also one that has an opinion that conference tournament games are essentially meaningless as it pertains to NCAA bids and seeding. I really haven’t seen much evidence that they make a difference in that regard.
I don't know about meaningless, but usually not heavily tipping the scales in a school's favor.
In a small number of cases, they can mean a ton but for the top teams I don’t think they move the needle generally.
The main reason I feel this way is just given how complex the bracket is to produce given all the constraints. It’s not worth changing the whole architecture of the bracket based on a last minute result. Moving one team from a 2 to a 3 could create a large domino effect.
The committee thought very highly of Texas and had them as the top 2 seed (#5). They are 2-1 since the reveal and play 2 very tough games at the end of the year. I think it’d be a stretch to pass them. Though I’m also one that has an opinion that conference tournament games are essentially meaningless as it pertains to NCAA bids and seeding. I really haven’t seen much evidence that they make a difference in that regard.I've seen seed lines change due to conference tournys, so I 100% disagree that MU would not pass UT in that scenario. I also think there is about a 5% chance that scenario plays out.
In a small number of cases, they can mean a ton but for the top teams I don’t think they move the needle generally.Yes most is set for top seeds by 1st 2nd games of tournament, it would only matta if two teams are "tied" in committee's view or if a team is getting in or about to get knocked out.
The main reason I feel this way is just given how complex the bracket is to produce given all the constraints. It’s not worth changing the whole architecture of the bracket based on a last minute result. Moving one team from a 2 to a 3 could create a large domino effect.
Yes most is set for top seeds by 1st 2nd games of tournament, it would only matta if two teams are "tied" in committee's view or if a team is getting in or about to get knocked out.
They craziest thing to me is we will be ranked higher than our projected Big East finish.
That’s crazy talk. A 10-loss UT on a four game skid isn’t getting seeded over a 6-loss double Big East champ with 9 straight wins…
If we make it to 8 that would be the highest ranking since… 2011?
most recent ranked #9; Mar/2012, Mar/2003, Feb/2002, Feb/1979
most recent ranked #8; Feb/2012, Jan-Feb/2009 (dropped lower after loss to South Florida), Nov-Dec/2006 (loss to North Dakota St), Mar/2003
last time higher than #8:
1978: ranked as high as #1 & with a low of #5
Active winning streaks, active losing streaks, and conference standings, three things that don't factor into seeding, at least not officially. The only thing you listed that is an official criteria for selection is overall record, which is not one of the more significant factors.
You could also say the following about a UT team that loses out and an MU team that wins out:
"That's crazy talk. A Marquette team with a lower NET, lower non-conference SOS, lower overall SOS, only 5 Q1 regular seasons wins, only 1 of which was away from Fiserv Forum, and a home loss to Wisconsin (either a low Q2 or Q3) isn't getting seeded over a Texas team with a higher NET, higher non-conference SOS, higher overall SOS, 10 Q1 wins, 4 of which were on the road, whose worst loss is on the road to #54 Texas Tech (Q1)...
The difference between the two statements is that the second only accounts for factors considered by the selection committee.
I'm not knocking us. I'm not saying Texas is a better team. But by this point in the season the resumes are 93% complete and the things that really move the needle are wins against Q1 opponents or losses against Q3/Q4 opponents. Texas only has Q1 opportunities left meaning they can only go up. Marquette only has Q2/Q3 opportunities left meaning we can only go down.
Texas is a fine team, but it’s not like their metrics are vastly superior to ours. They’re 10 in the NET right now and we’re 13. They do have the benefit of having a ton of Q1 opportunities in the Big12, but it’s not like their winning % in such contests is vastly superior. We did lose an OT game to a mediocre Wisconsin team, but they lost an OT game to a mediocre Illinois team.
As much as the committee likes to suggest seeding is a strict science, they aren’t giving UT a 2 seed if they flame out down the stretch and I’ll be mighty surprised if we win out and are placed on the 3 line. The NET says SMC and UConn are both two seeds, but at some point human common sense overrides the computer logic.
You don’t seem to understand what TAMU is saying. He may agree with your first paragraph. But the post he replied to was full of criteria the committee doesn’t use.
My point is that they do use those criteria even if they say they don’t. The committee can act like they’re robots all they want, they’re still going to discount teams that have lost a lot recently and boost teams that head into the tournment on a winning streak. It’s only human nature and it makes sense when teams are roughly equal in terms of overall resume.
most recent ranked #9; Mar/2012, Mar/2003, Feb/2002, Feb/1979
most recent ranked #8; Feb/2012, Jan-Feb/2009 (dropped lower after loss to South Florida), Nov-Dec/2006 (loss to North Dakota St), Mar/2003
last time higher than #8:
1978: ranked as high as #1 & with a low of #5
most recent ranked #9; Mar/2012, Mar/2003, Feb/2002, Feb/1979
most recent ranked #8; Feb/2012, Jan-Feb/2009 (dropped lower after loss to South Florida), Nov-Dec/2006 (loss to North Dakota St), Mar/2003
last time higher than #8:
1978: ranked as high as #1 & with a low of #5
Texas vs. Bama in an Elite 8 game would be enjoyable.Yes, The Battle of the Ethicals
Texas vs. Bama in an Elite 8 game would be enjoyable.
In 2019 I started an entire thread detailing MU's top 10 rankings. I've been updating it since.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=64197.0
I will update it again tomorrow when the rankings are out.
In the meantime, I added this earlier today in anticipation of a #8 or better ranking.
The last time MU was ranked better than 8th was March 6, 1978, when they were #3 (FYI, February 20, 1978, MU was #1)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/marquette/men/1978-schedule.html
----
(Incidentally, the following week, MU lost in the first round of the NCAA to Miami (Ohio) in OT.
Borges has MU 6th
https://www.ctinsider.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/article/david-borges-uconn-men-make-big-jump-ap-top-25-17807098.php
His Marquette description, in an article written today, says “Big East regular season title looking very likely.”
Not your fault, but you just gave me a migraine with your mention of that 1978 Miami (OH) game.
Even worse, it says
Marquette: First Big East regular season title looking very likely.
Two …Improving on our last 3 seed results would be acceptable!
You are correct. If MU wins out
( unlikely ) they are absolutely a 2 seed.
But, more likely they end up a 3
Texas is a fine team, but it’s not like their metrics are vastly superior to ours. They’re 10 in the NET right now and we’re 13. They do have the benefit of having a ton of Q1 opportunities in the Big12, but it’s not like their winning % in such contests is vastly superior. We did lose an OT game to a mediocre Wisconsin team, but they lost an OT game to a mediocre Illinois team.
As much as the committee likes to suggest seeding is a strict science, they aren’t giving UT a 2 seed if they flame out down the stretch and I’ll be mighty surprised if we win out and are placed on the 3 line. The NET says SMC and UConn are both two seeds, but at some point human common sense overrides the computer logic.
WHEN we return to #1, it will be the longest drought between #1 rankings in AP poll history, over 45 years. (Ohio State had a 45 year streak between '62 and '07)
If Marquette wins out through the BET, they will be an iron clad lock for a two-seed. They'll even get some minor attention as an oddball one-seed candidate. Feel free to pin this post up on your local community bulletin board for accountability.
I know this hard for some to accept, but when it comes to a 2-seed, we don't control our own destiny. We will need some good teams to lose to some bad teams if we want to move up another seed line.
With UCLA beating Colorado today, I think we are down to two remote chances at a 2 seed. We need one of Arizona/UCLA to lose their next three games (they play each other on March 4, whoever wins will be locked in for a 2 seed). Or we need Baylor to lose their next 3. For either option, we need Kansas State to lose at least one of their next two games and it would be helpful if Tennessee lost at least one more (but maybe not necessary). All that happens, and maybe a trip to the BET finals (win or lose) is enough to grab the last 2 seed.
I'm not knocking us. I'm not saying Texas is a better team. But by this point in the season the resumes are 93% complete and the things that really move the needle are wins against Q1 opponents or losses against Q3/Q4 opponents. Texas only has Q1 opportunities left meaning they can only go up. Marquette only has Q2/Q3 opportunities left meaning we can only go down.
This needs context. How many teams have ever even made it to #1? Much less twice?
Berman up to 5 (from 10)
Borges up to 6 (from 12)
Winning and losing matters.
This isn't exactly accurate. In terms of what Marquette controls, yes, all they can do is add a Q2 and Q3 win. But there are things outside their control that could change things significantly. Villanova (#78 NET) and Seton Hall (#80) NET are just outside the magic top-75 number. Currently, Marquette's sweep of those teams gives them two Q2 and two Q3 wins. But if those teams moved into the top-75, those would become two Q1 and two Q2 wins, effectively moving two Q3 wins to Q1 wins.
And while it's not Texas, Colorado (#73) and Washington State (#75) are just inside that cutline, meaning it would have a similar negative impact on 2-seeds Arizona and UCLA if Villanova and Seton Hall replaced them in the top-75. A lot of significant movement can happen at that cutline even though none of those teams are really on the bubble right now.
I am going with #7 this week.
Muggsy
To be ranked #7 going into March is a great accomplishment for the program.
11 in the ESPN power rankings. 😳
11 in the ESPN power rankings. 😳
That was updated 7 days ago.
That was updated 7 days ago.
Muggsy
To be ranked #7 going into March is a great accomplishment for the program.
No doubt. Goose, I'm thinking about sustained greatness for this program. I don't think I'm being greedy or irrational believing that MU will be a top 15 program (and top 4 seed) for a decade under Shaka. Granted, this is very difficult. Any given year there are variables that could lead to an off season. Regardless, I feel strongly that we're on the path to a resounding resurgence that bodes very well for MU.
At least until Shaka leaves for Madison, cause you know we was born there….
At least until Shaka leaves for Madison, cause you know we was born there….
At least until Shaka leaves for Madison, cause you know he was born there….
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ap-poll-top-25-projection-192240128.htmlWhat does aol predict?
Yahoo predicts we'll be top 5 this week!
What does aol predict?
Villanova (#78 NET) and Seton Hall (#80) NET are just outside the magic top-75 number. Currently, Marquette's sweep of those teams gives them two Q2 and two Q3 wins. But if those teams moved into the top-75, those would become two Q1 and two Q2 wins, effectively moving two Q3 wins to Q1 wins.
At least until Shaka leaves for Madison, cause you know he was born there….No big loss. We have the coach from the regular season MVC champions waiting in the wings.
Meaningless, but Katz has MU at #5.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2023-02-27/marquette-indiana-leap-top-6-mens-college-basketball-power-36-rankings
5. Marquette (10): The Golden Eagles are Big East champs and are primed for a top four seed line in the NCAAs.
Meaningless, but Katz has MU at #5.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2023-02-27/marquette-indiana-leap-top-6-mens-college-basketball-power-36-rankings
That’s some seriously deep analysis from Katz - I think he’s been spending too much energy trying to pump up the Big 10.
What an exciting time for the program and the fanbase. It has been a long journey and literally could not be happier for the program. Again, Shaka and the team have blown away my expectations in short order and time to raise the bar.
Being so bullish on this team in preseason, as we both were, it's awesome to see even the optimists weren't optimistic enough 8-)
brew
Hat's off to you on being maybe the biggest optimist for this season. This program is just getting started!!!
6th!!!
Just 23 points from #5 Purdue!
Muggsy
Not many more spots to climb over the next 6 weeks.
Shall we?
6th!!!
My guess for tomorrow:
1. Houston
2. Alabama
3. Kansas
4. UCLA (assuming a win @Colorado tonight)
5. Purdue
6. Marquette
Hard to believe, but I think the votes were clumped enough and @Creighton is big enough win that the voters will move us past all of the teams in front of us who lost except Purdue. I think it will be close between us, Texas, Baylor and Arizona.
Best most of us have ever seen. Shout out to our OGs who were here with Al
Best most of us have ever seen. Shout out to our OGs who were here with Al
#2 in 2019. Oh wait...
https://www.anonymouseagle.com/platform/amp/2019/4/11/18305962/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-way-too-early-preseason-projections-rankings
If you would’ve said in Oct…
12-8 BEast - Wow, tall task. That would be amazing!!
15-5 - Fun to dream, but let’s not be silly
17-3 - you need to be institutionalized
The scoop intelligentsia would have beat you into submission over how dumb you were.
Closer to 5th than 7th - nice!
As much as it pains me to say, we do want Bucky to win their next game.
#2 in 2019. Oh wait...
https://www.anonymouseagle.com/platform/amp/2019/4/11/18305962/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-way-too-early-preseason-projections-rankings
As much as it pains me to say, we do want Bucky to win their next game.
That was before "the letter."
No, it wasn't.
Shall we?
It was before the public blow up which is what I assumed he meant.
But yeah, the letter itself had long been written.
Highest since 1978 Believe the 2003 Team got to 8 in the AP PollMy freshman year. First year of Hank. :)
The entire lifespan of blockbuster happened since then.
The phrase "I want my MTV" wouldn't make since as Video hadn't killed the radio star yet
Let’s finish strong.
I know this hard for some to accept, but when it comes to a 2-seed, we don't control our own destiny. We will need some good teams to lose to some bad teams if we want to move up another seed line.
With UCLA beating Colorado today, I think we are down to two remote chances at a 2 seed. We need one of Arizona/UCLA to lose their next three games (they play each other on March 4, whoever wins will be locked in for a 2 seed). Or we need Baylor to lose their next 3. For either option, we need Kansas State to lose at least one of their next two games and it would be helpful if Tennessee lost at least one more (but maybe not necessary). All that happens, and maybe a trip to the BET finals (win or lose) is enough to grab the last 2 seed.
Pretty hard to do without a finish line.
With all due respect to Coach Shaka, the finish line is in Houston on April 3, 2023!
With all due respect to Coach Shaka, the finish line is in Houston on April 3, 2023!
Not if you are looking for back-to-back.
NO!
We are Marquette!
We don't do things like that!
That said, the last time we were ranked this high, Ms. Dgies was just a close girlfriend, I was finishing up my senior year and gasoline was 46 cents a gallon. Last time this happened, I still had a full head of hair!
Thanks Shaka! Now, lets win big next month!
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/dylan-sinn/2022/week-17
Man I really hope this is a case of the website being screwed up or something, because that is one bad ballot.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/dylan-sinn/2022/week-17Read his bio. He's a baseball fan.
Man I really hope this is a case of the website being screwed up or something, because that is one bad ballot.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/dylan-sinn/2022/week-17
Man I really hope this is a case of the website being screwed up or something, because that is one bad ballot.
It’s a pretty extreme ballot but it gets even worse if you look at his week 16 ballot.There is something strange with that ballot. Even taking MU out of the evaluation, it is so far off from the norm it makes me wonder if he has an agenda or something. Maybe he was told he is losing his vote at the end of the year. Or he let his cat fill out the ballot (looks like a 'cat' guy)
He moved Northwestern up from 17 to 11. They went 0-2 this week which included a pounding at Maryland.
He had Marquette at 11 last week and moved them down to 14 after winning 2 games.
I stopped looking after that but I’m sure there were other similar cases with other teams.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/dylan-sinn/2022/week-17
Man I really hope this is a case of the website being screwed up or something, because that is one bad ballot.
There is something strange with that ballot. Even taking MU out of the evaluation, it is so far off from the norm it makes me wonder if he has an agenda or something. Maybe he was told he is losing his vote at the end of the year. Or he let his cat fill out the ballot (looks like a 'cat' guy)
Not complaining about our ranking #6 is amazing!
Question is Purdue. Not saying we should be ranked higher. It seems as if they were anointed a 1 seed two months ago and what they do since has had little-to-no impact. They’ve lost 3 straight road games (2 to unranked teams) and 4 of 6 overall yet they’re still top 5 and sitting on a 1. I get the quad 1 wins, etc but just doesn’t seem right.
Purdue deserves to be higher at this point but this does bring up an argument I would love to hear people talk about. Purdue won the head to head matchup at home although close they did win. They currently have 1 less loss and better Q1 wins. Baylor on the other hand got spanked by us are below us in the rankings however are probably above us on the seed line. They have two more losses and lose the head-to-head. How can it be both ways for Marquette that the lose out on seeding. BTW I believe that Purdue losses to Wisconsin tomorrow. Thats basically the badgers season, they lose and they are NIT bound.
There is something strange with that ballot. Even taking MU out of the evaluation, it is so far off from the norm it makes me wonder if he has an agenda or something. Maybe he was told he is losing his vote at the end of the year. Or he let his cat fill out the ballot (looks like a 'cat' guy)
1/2 of his ballot is materially out of whack w the concensus
That’s some seriously deep analysis from Katz - I think he’s been spending too much energy trying to pump up the Big 10.
Jay Bee
I thought 12-8 in BE was realistic goal. Never did I think this would happen so quickly. The record is amazing, but how the program is being run is more impressive to me. It looks like Shaka has been here five years, not two.
With all due respect to Coach Shaka, the finish line is in Houston on April 3, 2023!quote.
Rebuilds "are a bitch" as a prominent member of the other Board used to say in order to defend 6-7 years of dissappointment and defend the the status quo.Great memories of "get ready for at least 5 years to maybe getting back to respectable, IF you can find anyone to take the Marquette job". ::)
Rebuilds "are a bitch" as a prominent member of the other Board used to say in order to defend 6-7 years of dissappointment and defend the the status quo.
I "hit the wall" reading that comment on his board for 6 years straight. He's now getting into a weird discussion about Shaka not landing Jonas Aidoo, and if we had Aidoo how much better we'd be. He's one strange dude.
Rebuilds "are a bitch" as a prominent member of the other Board used to say in order to defend 6-7 years of dissappointment and defend the the status quo.
This has been a fabulous season through 29 games. Have you gotten "tired legs" yet?
Don’t underestimate the shooting backdrop at Hinkle.
Oh if we lose tonight it’ll be all about senior night
Don't forget about the tired legs
Oh if we lose tonight it’ll be all about senior night
The team could be concerned over a Shaka departure in the upcoming weeks and it might cause problems the rest of the way.
🫣Shaka to UW-Madison extension. Ugh
I mean this might be the definition of a trap game…
And a last chance at a February fade
Last chance THIS year
Successful coaches never leave their schools to go to another. Its never happened.
Crean turned down Illinois after the FF run in 2003. A few years later, after bombing out (again) in the tourney, he could leap to Indiana fast enough.
The only place a FF coach goes is the NBA (see Brad Stevens). But I don't see Shaka as an NBA coach.
(Yes, Roy Williams jumped from Kansas to UNC, but he is the exception that proves the rule. His circumstances in making that jump were unique.)
I think when a coach is most vulnerable to taking another offer is after some significant success, but then a down year or two...they worry about being able to replicate that success again at the current school, and also that their stock may be starting to sink with any more down years. They feel they need to strike while the iron is hot. There isn't that pressure RIGHT after a Final Four year, it is a few years later and no similar success.
This happened to both Crean and Buzz.
The risk is not Shaka leaving after a deep run this year. The risk is a deep run this year, followed by mediocre success for the next couple years. That is when coaches leave. Psychologically, it makes sense.
I don't think that happened to Buzz. I think that & the "new big east won't be good" was an excuse.
I disagree. He went 17-15 and knew the cupboard was empty in 2014-2015.
I disagree. He went 17-15 and knew the cupboard was empty in 2014-2015.The record talk ignores a lot of the background that (justifiably or not) messed with his happy. I am impatiently waiting for tip off tonight as well, but don't really know why we are back on this.
but don't really know why we are back on this.
The record talk ignores a lot of the background that (justifiably or not) messed with his happy. I am impatiently waiting for tip off tonight as well, but don't really know why we are back on this.
Is this your first day on Scoop?Fair. Forgot myself for a minute there
The only thing the Crean and Buzz departures had in common was surprising fans.
No worry. Tomorrow we can get a fresh start with March Malais.
Personally, I am looking forward to our April Angst.April Abyss
April Abyss
Guys, is this not important anymore? Do we move up ??
Probably stay at 6 - which is fine. In November we would be stunned to be talking about staying at 6! Goo Marquette!In November I'd be pleased if MU was 6th in the BE on 3/5/23.
What's ridiculous is that even though we're ranked 6th, teams that are ranked below us AND lost yesterday are still on the 2 seed line above us in the bracket updates this morning. Pretty much nobody has us as a 2, looking like we need to win BET to get a 2. If we lose in the BET finals we still definitely deserve a 2 sees but won't get one
IIRC, we were only 23 votes behind Purdue last week.
What's ridiculous is that even though we're ranked 6th, teams that are ranked below us AND lost yesterday are still on the 2 seed line above us in the bracket updates this morning.
In November I'd be pleased if MU was 6th in the BE on 3/5/23.Cole
Dick Vitale has Marquette 4th this week behind
1. Houston
2. Kansas
3. UCLA
He loves the Warriors, bay-bee!
Dick Vitale has Marquette 4th this week behind
1. Houston
2. Kansas
3. UCLA
What? With that foursome it looks like a travel back in time to the early 1970s.
Sometimes I think that’s where he’s living. Does his vote count in the poll?
Sometimes I think that’s where he’s living. Does his vote count in the poll?
YesAhh Dickie V, has Duke 10 spots above the actual vote. Classic. He's kind of like Punxsutawney Phil, just a fun old tradition that doesn't make sense.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/dick-vitale/2022/week-17
Borges at 6.
My guess for tomorrow:
1. Houston
2. UCLA
3. Kansas
4. Alabama
5. Purdue
6. Marquette
Rothstein keeps us at 6.
What's ridiculous is that even though we're ranked 6th, teams that are ranked below us AND lost yesterday are still on the 2 seed line above us in the bracket updates this morning. Pretty much nobody has us as a 2, looking like we need to win BET to get a 2. If we lose in the BET finals we still definitely deserve a 2 sees but won't get one
For a comparison, last year the bracketologist consensus was that Duke losing in the ACC Semis while Tennessee won the SEC Tournament would push Tennessee ahead of Duke for the last 2-seed. But because games after Friday definitely don't matter, that didn't happen. Duke stayed a 2, Tennessee stayed a 3. I don't think we move up because Championship Week results simply don't mean as much. The Top-16 will likely be voted and set by Wednesday or Thursday at the latest.
The year Uconn won it back in 2011 the Huskies were a 6 seed at best before they were through the BET and beat literally 3 1 seeds. That boosted them from a 6 to a 3 seed in the NCAA tournament.
The 2011 Big East was also arguably the best league ever put together.Who would argue that?
Who would argue that?
The B12 might say they're better top to bottom this year.Ok, that is fair. I still think the 2013 is better (11 teams in the NCAA)
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
6
#9 in the ESPN power rankings.2 spots behind Baylor? MU deserves a place or two better, imo
2 spots behind Baylor? MU deserves a place or two better, imo
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
6
#6 again
The year Uconn won it back in 2011 the Huskies were a 6 seed at best before they were through the BET and beat literally 3 1 seeds. That boosted them from a 6 to a 3 seed in the NCAA tournament.
The year Uconn won it back in 2011 the Huskies were a 6 seed at best before they were through the BET and beat literally 3 1 seeds. That boosted them from a 6 to a 3 seed in the NCAA tournament.
That's the common myth, but I'm not sure it's true. If you use the Wayback Machine to look at the old Bracket Matrix 50webs site, UConn was a 4-seed in the last bracket compilation before the Big East Tournament (February 26). They did lose 2/3 to end the season, but people forget that team was undefeated in non-con play with wins over Kentucky (in the Maui final) and Texas. That was the year before I started doing regular brackets for Cracked Sidewalks, but I think this common trope is overblown.
More important, though, the Last 10 Games criteria has been removed since then because it was deemed to be a disservice to non-high majors. So even if UConn jumped up 3 seed lines at MSG, the criteria that allowed that has been removed.
Utah State coming in at 28th and a lot of bracketologists have them out of the tournament as of now.AP poll no matta
I know the novelty of being a top 10 team has worn off a bit but MU is still #6 in the AP poll. No voters have MU outside the top 10. Only two voters have them below 8. Getting a couple votes at #2.
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
I know the novelty of being a top 10 team has worn off a bit but MU is still #6 in the AP poll. No voters have MU outside the top 10. Only two voters have them below 8. Getting a couple votes at #2.
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Couldn't help but notice that it lists our last game played as the regular season win over St John's. Do the voters not consider tournament results, or is this just a wrinkle in the way the website presents the "this week" column?
Couldn't help but notice that it lists our last game played as the regular season win over St John's. Do the voters not consider tournament results, or is this just a wrinkle in the way the website presents the "this week" column?
I couldn't help but notice that at least a couple voters actually put MU lower this week than last week. How? Jerry DiPaola had MU as a 6 last week and a 10 this week. Kevin Sjuts moved us from 6 to 9. You'd think a couple of neutral site wins over top 20 teams would be enough to hold your spot in a voter's mind. Apparently not.I guess if we would have run the gauntlet of the ACC in Racine, WI. we'd be #1.
Nothing says Communist like a massive, massive for-profit corporation. Indeed.'For Profit Commies' are the worst kind of communists.
Marquette is #6 again in USA Today Coaches Poll too
Wrong! We are #4 in the Coaches Poll!!!!!!
But, I guess nobody cares once the brackets come out.
I think #4 is pretty cool.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
Why does the BE have only 5 teams in the NCAA tournament while the Big Ten which stinks has 9?
this is a great question...and rutgers is pissed
must have sumpin to do with the net kenpom scores of the gross quad 2 & 3 road wins taking into account halftime scores, best cheerleaders and post game handshake demeanor. extra credit to team gpa, and tattoo originality
You quoted a post that was a week old.
#1 per Goodman.
I can live with that.
From the abyss, aka the Wojo era, to this in twoish years is pretty damned incredible. With guys who, two years ago, nobody knew.
Pretty damned incredible.
Enjoy the ride.
With guys who Wojo recruited! 3/5ths of the starters were Wojo recruits who stayed.
14th in the Coaches poll:
https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/coaches-poll/2022-2023/2023-04-04/
Above Michigan State.
14th in the Coaches poll:
https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/coaches-poll/2022-2023/2023-04-04/
14th in the Coaches poll:I'm surprised UCONN is unanimous #1, I thought the Big 10 voter would put Ohio State #1.
https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/coaches-poll/2022-2023/2023-04-04/
That's an absurd drop after losing 1 game.
14th in the Coaches poll:
https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/polls/coaches-poll/2022-2023/2023-04-04/
That's an absurd drop after losing 1 game.
After losing 1 game....and a bunch of teams who were behind us winning multiple games
Thanks for clarifying that. I had no idea other teams won games.
So when do the first rankings of the season come out?
5th in Jerry Carino's 1st preseason ballot.
https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/2023/10/09/ap-top-25-map-top-25-college-basketball-preseason-poll-jerry-carinos-ballot-basketball-preseason-pol/71098587007/
5th in Jerry Carino's 1st preseason ballot.
https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/2023/10/09/ap-top-25-map-top-25-college-basketball-preseason-poll-jerry-carinos-ballot-basketball-preseason-pol/71098587007/
[/ quote]
Only 5th? Jerry obviously hates Marquette.
5th in Jerry Carino's 1st preseason ballot.3 big east in top ten!
https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/2023/10/09/ap-top-25-map-top-25-college-basketball-preseason-poll-jerry-carinos-
ballot-basketball-preseason-
pol/71098587007/
[/ quote]
Only 5th? Jerry obviously hates Marquette.
3 big east in top ten!https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-2024-march-madness-men-field-predictions
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-2024-march-madness-men-field-predictionslol at a 3-6 vs Kentucky. We'll just have to whup em again I suppose.
1st AP Poll drops tomorrow at 11.Upadhyaya 4th
So far:
Carino- 5th
Borges- 3rd
Also I'm sure UConn being a spot behind us won't trigger their fans on Twitter at all.
Also I'm sure UConn being a spot behind us won't trigger their fans on Twitter at all.
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
5
Lol - they are already freaking on twitter about the ranking, just like they were making fun of MU last night about the kenpom rankings. I do not get it - if MU wins a natty, I am never thinking about anyone or anything other than MU ever again.
Also I'm sure UConn being a spot behind us won't trigger their fans on Twitter at all.
If there’s one fanbase that doesn’t get triggered easily, it’s definitely Marquette fan
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
5
If there’s one fanbase that doesn’t get triggered easily, it’s definitely Marquette fan
Marquette is the highest ranked team that didn't receive any first place votes. Inexcusable disrespect. F*ck em!
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-pollhttps://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/10/16/marquette-enters-2023-24-season-as-no-5-in-preseason-ap-top-25/71203949007/
5
Marquette is the highest ranked team that didn't receive any first place votes. Inexcusable disrespect. F*ck em!
Is this Dukes whole team?
https://youtu.be/DlTqmV7luAw?si=O61jQ5Rfa6AB8XTc
Doesn't strike me as a Top 2 team in America. I admittedly dont know much about them to start the season, but it just doesn't look like a top 2 team in the country roster.
7-4 non con would be good for them with Baylor, Zona, MSU, and Arkansas on the schedule.
Is this Dukes whole team?
https://youtu.be/DlTqmV7luAw?si=O61jQ5Rfa6AB8XTc
Doesn't strike me as a Top 2 team in America. I admittedly dont know much about them to start the season, but it just doesn't look like a top 2 team in the country roster.
I definitely wouldn't say top-2, but probably top-10 to 15. Flip is great, Roach is solid and both Proctor & Mitchell should be improved. They'll take a couple losses in non-con, but then run roughshod over a mediocre ACC and convince everyone they're better than their record, just like last year.
Thanks for the insight. The ACC really is set for another rough season huh?
Newsie says unranked after last night’s performance.Where should newsie's performance be ranked?
Where should newsie's performance be ranked?Elite, but lousy at rebounding. Never trust 🌶️ morning after games, still drunk.
Elite, but lousy at rebounding. Never trust 🌶️ morning after games, still drunk.
Nobody should get THAT drunk for NIU. That game was worth an additional scoop of ice cream....at best.
Mich St lost to James Madison! lol
So … next week we move to No. 4
It was a trap gameDidn't cover
Welcome back, Newsie.I never really left, just taking a break & so much work, very rewarding work, that decided to stay away until games started. So hi 🪿
MU with an opportunity to be at #3. :)We won't be top 10
We won't be top 10
Wrelcome back, Newsie, but you're channeling Rico.
We won't be top 10This is the new 26th?
We can’t even pick one when there are only 2 choices? 😂
It’s obviously either 4 or 3
I don’t know if it’s that obvious. The Duke brand is strong. Zona probably deserves to jump us. And I could see voters keeping Duke above us. Plus Tennessee just won by double digits at a team that is receiving votes.
I don’t know if it’s that obvious. The Duke brand is strong. Zona probably deserves to jump us. And I could see voters keeping Duke above us. Plus Tennessee just won by double digits at a team that is receiving votes.
I don’t know if it’s that obvious. The Duke brand is strong. Zona probably deserves to jump us. And I could see voters keeping Duke above us. Plus Tennessee just won by double digits at a team that is receiving votes.
Come on.
Marquette won’t get jumped by Az, and will likely jump Duke.
MU at 3, Duke at 4/5 along with Az in that same range is more likely.
I guess you never know, but it seems hard for the #5 ranked team, after two blowout wins, to drop with 2 losses ahead of them, borderline impossible.
I guess we’ve never been here before tho in my lifetime so enjoy it
Tennessee is not going to jump 4 spots for beating an unranked team.
We wouldn’t drop. We’d stay where we are.
Why would Arizona not jump us? They just won at Cameron Indoor. There’s no argument for keeping Duke ahead of Arizona.
Wrelcome back, Newsie, but you're channeling Rico.We're bros 4ever
This is the new 26th?Nice, another bong hit!
Tennessee is not going to jump 4 spots for beating an unranked team.Wasted in Vegas don't count
CuatroCultural appropriation my friend!
They’re not jumping from 12 to 3.
I don’t know if it’s that obvious. The Duke brand is strong. Zona probably deserves to jump us. And I could see voters keeping Duke above us. Plus Tennessee just won by double digits at a team that is receiving votes.
It's the first in season poll. Very malleable right now. I don't think they jump us but if they don't they'll be right behind us
Some serious COLE crap here
Unless Duke loses to Arizona on Friday...in which case we could possibly see the teams ranked #1, #2, and #3 all in the same field in Hawaii.
They’re not jumping from 12 to 3.
I’m with you, real. Enjoy the ride!!
real
Send pics!
I have an excuse to be in Champaign on Tuesday. 🤔
I guess we’ve never been here before tho in my lifetime so enjoy it
I’d be surprised if they didn’t. They have maybe the best win any team will have this entire season, while almost everyone else has played a couple of cupcakes.
Billy Joel concert?
dgies
The program is back and it is a lot of fun. I have waited since 8th grade for this type of excitement and program. I agree with Shaka, MU is the place to be in college basketball.
Goose:
I remember the first time we were rated 1 in both the AP and UPI polls. It was February 1971 and I was a freshman in high school in Nashville. Great moment and something we thought would never end.
It did and for those of us who stuck with our Warriors through The Dukiet, Deanne and Wojo years, this is an incredible feeling. Difference is I’m old enough to be able to fly to home games, which we will do in February.
This year should be special!
3-Marquette
4-Tennessee
5-Arizona
6-UConn
7-Duke
I’d put Arizona and Tennessee ahead of Marquette. Good wins on the road are better than two cupcakes at home.
Enjoy the ride….
This makes sense:
As does this:
I'm thinking AZ leapfrogs us to 3 and we move up to 4, one spot ahead of Tenn. Not that there's any science to this.
Of course. But it doesn't mean we all can't enjoy every roadside stop on the ride.
I think it's a pretty fun part of the ride to be having conversations about where in the top 5 Marquette should be ranked.
We Are Marquette!
We have in mine. It’s nice to be baaaaacccck!
Looking forward to being ranked 1 after we beat Illinois, win Hawaii, beat Texas, the rodent and the booze-addled leprechaun.
Wrelcome back, Newsie, but you're channeling Rico.
3-Marquette
4-Tennessee
5-Arizona
6-UConn
7-Duke
I think there's a legit argument for that. Arizona's win was great, but it's as much an argument that Duke was overrated as anything.
We won't have to beat Texas, UW, or ND to get to #1 if we win Maui. In fact, I think the winner of Maui will be #1 on Nov 27 no matter what happens, and that includes a surprise run by Gonzaga or UCLA.
We won't have to beat Texas, UW, or ND to get to #1 if we win Maui. In fact, I think the winner of Maui will be #1 on Nov 27 no matter what happens, and that includes a surprise run by Gonzaga or UCLA.
Put me down for "Duke is overrated." More like a top 20 team than a top 5 team.
Now Arizona's going to be overrated for a bit. I expect the Wildcats to jump into the top 5. They're a solid top 15 team, but ultimately not top 5 in my opinion. I expect their ranking to correct over time.
I don’t care how good this team is; never ever going to be ranked No. 1 by UPI.And geezer had hair then
I think the one caveat is an undefeated Maui winner will be #1. If we lose to Illinois but win Maui, I think we'll be highly ranked but not #1.
I’m going to enjoy the ride but my goal is a 1 seed in the tournament. Winning the Maui will give us a leg up on everyone.
Wins over Ucla, Texas, Wisconsin, Kansas , Illinois and Purdue/Tennessee/Gonzaga would all but guarantee a 1 seed with winning the big east. Wouldn’t even need the big east tournament at that point. Maybe I’m getting greedy but it’s nice to have these conversations again.
I’m going to enjoy the ride but my goal is a 1 seed in the tournament. Winning the Maui will give us a leg up on everyone.I'll enjoy the ride, but want a natty, anything else is a failure of a season.
Wins over Ucla, Texas, Wisconsin, Kansas , Illinois and Purdue/Tennessee/Gonzaga would all but guarantee a 1 seed with winning the big east. Wouldn’t even need the big east tournament at that point. Maybe I’m getting greedy but it’s nice to have these conversations again.
And geezer had hair then
Hair is over-rated. Height isn't!!!!!!!!!!Hair is the bomb, height makes you clumsy, ask Muggsy
Hair is the bomb, height makes you clumsy, ask Muggsy
;DLove you brother, too bad you eat sprouts and hate RC.
I’d put Arizona and Tennessee ahead of Marquette. Good wins on the road are better than two cupcakes at home.Fair enough but you have to put JMU in the top 5 to be consistent.
Fair enough but you have to put JMU in the top 5 to be consistent.Nope, not how it works.
Nope, not how it works.You'll have an easier time solving cold fusion then explaining how the AP Top 25 voting "works".
You'll have an easier time solving cold fusion then explaining how the AP 25 voting "works".Nah, cold fusion is easy.
https://www.middletownpress.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/article/uconn-men-land-borges-s-top-25-ballot-18486696.php
Where's the poll??? Are these guys asleep at the wheel??
Where's the poll??? Are these guys asleep at the wheel??They are out hunting endangered game.
Doesn't it come out at noon?
Zona jumped us so we are 4
Damn. How is this acceptable? :)
I was mostly surprised that Tennessee didn't benefit more from its own good road win.
Full poll:
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
How is Bucky still getting votes?RED is a good, vet team. No shame in losing to Tennessee. I’m not confident we win there in a few weeks.
Also, it would be nice if Gonzaga can sneak into the top 10 next week. 5 top 10 teams in one tournament would be quite the sight.
Win out in Champaign-Urbana and Hawaii and a 3 ranking will be in our rear view mirror.
My suspicion is that we did not rise more because we haven't played anyone -- as of the polling date.
Win out in Champaign-Urbana and Hawaii and a 3 ranking will be in our rear view mirror.
My suspicion is that we did not rise more because we haven't played anyone -- as of the polling date.
dgies
Win out the next five and there will not be any higher to go. Tough task, tomorrow is step one.
Rocket
Long, long season. Going to be plenty of ups and downs, but exciting to be in the mix. The boys can go long way in in quality wins over next month, prior to BE action.
Hair is the bomb, height makes you clumsy, ask Muggsy
RED is a good, vet team. No shame in losing to Tennessee. I’m not confident we win there in a few weeks.
Of course you're not.are you confident winning at UW? They always seem to have a guy go off. Last season it was Chucky.
are you confident winning at UW? They always seem to have a guy go off. Last season it was Chucky.
I do not fear Madison, no. I mean, even Wojo was 4-3 against them. Who “went off” in those 4 losses? (Floppy tried to get Joey off, but that’s a whole nother story.)there’s no ‘fear’. Your description. But it’s a very distasteful loss. Johnny Davis went off last time at their joint. Chucky went off last season at FF. Davison, Traevon Jackson, Frank Kaminsky, Sam Dekker among others in recent years. Imo the equal to a 5th or 6th place BE team, so very much ncaa caliber. (I wish they were not) btw, you’d feel different if you lived here in WI. It’s easy to dismiss them when not among them. I’d say the most energized game of the season for Wisconsin residents/followers of either program.
It’s like GE03 saying “they always find a way.” Last season, they couldn’t even find their way into the NCAA tournament.
So I’m not giving Madison much thought with all the games we have coming up against actually good college basketball teams.
there’s no ‘fear’. Your description. But it’s a very distasteful loss. Johnny Davis went off last time at their joint. Chucky went off last season at FF. Davison, Traevon Jackson, Frank Kaminsky, Sam Dekker among others in recent years. Imo the equal to a 5th or 6th place BE team, so very much ncaa caliber. (I wish they were not) btw, you’d feel different if you lived here in WI. It’s easy to dismiss them when not among them. I’d say the most energized game of the season for Wisconsin residents/followers of either program.
What everyone needs to understand is the B1G teams are designed to beat other B1G teams, and not very much else (last night’s results notwithstanding). That’s why a bunch of them make the dance but so few get to the Sweet 16. Absolutely we can lose, but if we are cranking on all cylinders we’ll be hard to beat. I don’t think Stevie and Co. will let them slow the game down as much as Tennessee did.
It was a 71 possession game. It wasn’t slow at all
Yep, I really want Marquette to beat Madison, but I really want to win every game. And I realize that UConn, Creighton, Nova, etc, are more important games than Madison. Just as Madison's more important games are Michigan State, Illinois, Michigan, etc.obsessed…guilty as charged. Bro-in-law is a UW grad and shows no mercy. The past two years have been rough. We, make that I, need a W against them!! Haha
Viper, it's easy to bring up Madison players, including unlikely ones, who have beaten Marquette. But we also got big plays from the likes of Ed Morrow and a freshman Justin Lewis to beat them. That's basketball.
You are obsessed with Madison. That's cool ... it's part of your MU fandom.
But sure ... here's hoping our guys roll into Madison and steamroll the red turds. I'd vastly prefer that to the alternative.
Not having the stat for possessions in a game for everyone... 71 seems super low
If you were to score 2 points on every possession the game would be 71-71. That doesn't seem crazy high offense for a 100% shooting percentage.
71 would be middle of the road tempo and about 5 possessions per game more than any Greg Gard team
Not having the stat for possessions in a game for everyone... 71 seems super low
If you were to score 2 points on every possession the game would be 71-71. That doesn't seem crazy high offense for a 100% shooting percentage.
obsessed…guilty as charged. Bro-in-law is a UW grad and shows no mercy. The past two years have been rough. We, make that I, need a W against them!! Haha
I say we get bumped to #3 so the Maui has that little extra juice with the 1,2 and 3 ranked teams in America.
We got this.
FAU being ranked still is pretty hilarious.
Let’s not worry about the next 3 days ….
Let’s just beat UCLA.
This is hilarious, thank you for the comedy.
MU doesn't have the shooters or athletes to compete with any of the top 3 teams. Heck, not even a top 10 team.
Even talking about MU being the best team in the country is ludicrous.
This is hilarious, thank you for the comedy.Win one game and you get your swagger back. Good for you, scrappy doo.
MU doesn't have the shooters or athletes to compete with any of the top 3 teams. Heck, not even a top 10 team.
Even talking about MU being the best team in the country is ludicrous.
Tomorrow around 11:30 is going to be rough for you.
This is hilarious, thank you for the comedy.LOL
MU doesn't have the shooters or athletes to compete with any of the top 3 teams. Heck, not even a top 10 team.
Even talking about MU being the best team in the country is ludicrous.
#1 if we can pull off a win against Purdue
This is hilarious, thank you for the comedy.
MU doesn't have the shooters or athletes to compete with any of the top 3 teams. Heck, not even a top 10 team.
Even talking about MU being the best team in the country is ludicrous.
This is hilarious, thank you for the comedy.
MU doesn't have the shooters or athletes to compete with any of the top 3 teams. Heck, not even a top 10 team.
Even talking about MU being the best team in the country is ludicrous.
really might be 2 at worst lol
If they win #1. If they lose #3. Either way, already a good weekend for MU.
Maybe if it's a double OT loss, but I do think we stay top-5 regardless.
But as I've been saying for awhile, #1 after we win Maui. LFG.
That aged well.
Brew- you’re usually sound of thought…
Unless Marquette loses by 20+ that’s a #2 at worst team.
They won’t lose tho, so it’s 1
This is hilarious, thank you for the comedy.
MU doesn't have the shooters or athletes to compete with any of the top 3 teams. Heck, not even a top 10 team.
Even talking about MU being the best team in the country is ludicrous.
This is hilarious, thank you for the comedy.
MU doesn't have the shooters or athletes to compete with any of the top 3 teams. Heck, not even a top 10 team.
Even talking about MU being the best team in the country is ludicrous.
Others receiving votes.
Seriously, 4-6. Purdue, UConn AZ at least ahead. Probably Kansas, too.
Anything lower than 2 is wrong.
Agreed, but I think we’ll be 3.
Hate me for my Marquette doomerism, but I believe Marquette is 7 after this loss.26
Hate me for my Marquette doomerism, but I believe Marquette is 7 after this loss.
SHOULD BE #2, but Arizona or UConn will get the nod. I say MU is #3
It shouldnt be, but alas. No respect
Others receiving votes.
Seriously, 4-6. Purdue, UConn AZ at least ahead. Probably Kansas, too.
I expect 3, just saying that's wrong. Putting us behind anyone other than Purdue is simply wrong. But the voters are stupid, so...
This thread makes me think there was even more afternoon drinking going on today than I thoughtI'm drunk & high
I'm drunk & high
Kansas?!?! Are you on crack?I don't agree. I predict that will be the result of the poll.
Yes. But Lunardi (who is a flaming idiot, and is still taken seriously), has Marquette as a 3 seed. Let me know when respect is given to Marquette. I'm not saying it is right, but Marquette will be ranked somewhere between 5 and 8. I'm sticking with 7.
Well you’ll be totally wrong sticking with your guns on 7.
I'm wrong a lot. I'll live.
I think Marquette is legitimately 2 after the loss, but the voters . . . one cannot be cynical enough.
They aren’t dropping 3 spots after crushing #1 and a one possession loss to #2. For crying out loud.
Yes. But Lunardi (who is a flaming idiot, and is still taken seriously), has Marquette as a 3 seed. Let me know when respect is given to Marquette. I'm not saying it is right, but Marquette will be ranked somewhere between 5 and 8. I'm sticking with 7.
1-2 will be Purdue and UConn. If Arizona wins, they will remain 3.
UConn isn’t jumping 3 spots. They’ve beaten garbage except TX and that was a de facto home game at MSG. Texas is not even top 10 either. Our week was a zillion times more impressive.But they are the defending national champion who is undefeated. MU has a loss. This isn't about what we think.
But they are the defending national champion who is undefeated. MU has a loss. This isn't about what we think.
I've always wanted to say, "Vander Blue Man Group" is brilliant.LOL
Here is how I got to 7:
1. Purdue
2. Arizona
3. UCONN
4. Houston
5. Creighton
6. Duke
7. Marquette
I am not saying it is right, but my utter and complete lack of faith in the voters make it a 7. Personally, I would vote 2 and accept 4.
Yes. But Lunardi (who is a flaming idiot, and is still taken seriously), has Marquette as a 3 seed. Let me know when respect is given to Marquette. I'm not saying it is right, but Marquette will be ranked somewhere between 5 and 8. I'm sticking with 7.
If you're following bracketology, don't use Lunardi. He's not very good.Blasphemy
If you're following bracketology, don't use Lunardi. He's not very good.
It's okay. I'm just not seeing the Marquette love nationally. Hopefully, I am surprised.
I've always wanted to say, "Vander Blue Man Group" is brilliant.
Here is how I got to 7:
1. Purdue
2. Arizona
3. UCONN
4. Houston
5. Creighton
6. Duke
7. Marquette
I am not saying it is right, but my utter and complete lack of faith in the voters make it a 7. Personally, I would vote 2 and accept 4.
Others receiving votes.
Seriously, 4-6. Purdue, UConn AZ at least ahead. Probably Kansas, too.
222?
1 loss teams in November drop behind undefeated high profile high majors. It will be ok.
Other than short term bragging rights, the polls are currently irrelevant.
I think we are 3 and here's why:Logic does not apply here. We lost, so we will fall behind UConn and Houston. Maybe even Creighton. Kansas is Kansas, so they will fall, but not below us. I predict the rankings in this order Purdue, Arizona, Uconn, Houston, Kansas, MU, Creighton.
Last week there were 24 writers (almost 40%) who had us ranked 5th or worse. My guess is that most of those people thought we had not proved ourselves against a tough opponent. This week, we crushed last week's #1 and came within one bucket of beating #2. That's going to convert a lot of those voters into Marquette believers.
Also, as much as it will hurt, we need to send good vibes to Michigan State tomorrow so that they spank Zona.
I think we are 3 and here's why:I agree with this analysis
Last week there were 24 writers (almost 40%) who had us ranked 5th or worse. My guess is that most of those people thought we had not proved ourselves against a tough opponent. This week, we crushed last week's #1 and came within one bucket of beating #2. That's going to convert a lot of those voters into Marquette believers.
Also, as much as it will hurt, we need to send good vibes to Michigan State tomorrow so that they spank Zona.
Voters will put Kansas ahead of Marquette, because they are Kansas.
Lunardi has moved MU up to the fourth one seed in his latest bracket posting.
Believe the voters go with Houston and Duke over Marquette, primarily based on my cynicism toward the voters.A close loss to the team that is going to be ranked number 1, should not hurt your ranking. However, the voters only seem to recognize that you lost. The rankings at this point really do not mean much. There were several teams ranked number 1 last year and they did not make the final 4.
The voters will recognize that we played 1 and 2 on consecutive days, sent 1 packing and lost by one possession to 2.
Our win over Kansas didn't take place in secret.
Had the Warriors beaten Purdue, this group of ball knowers woulda figured MU ta be ranked 7th in next week's poll, aina?
Makes sense to me as well Mike. Too bad we are not voters. They seem to believe that it is their sacred duty to punish any team that loses. That's why I think we stay at #4. The KU win and PU loss, in the minds of the voters (I think) are a wash.
I just know we're #1 in Sagarin and KPI, I think i'd pick that over the AP #1, actually.
Here is how I got to 7:
1. Purdue
2. Arizona
3. UCONN
4. Houston5. Creighton6.5. Duke7.6. Marquette
With Creighton's loss, Marquette is 6 on Monday.
It's a pride thing or conversation thing to some. Very few people know what KPI is, and hardly anyone will say, "Well, Purdue might be #1 in both national polls, and maybe they beat us, but we're #1 in Sagarin."
We all know the polls don't "mean" anything. But they've been around for decades and for many there's a certain pride having one's team ranked high.
I like the little bit extra national publicity we get - maybe it doesn't "help" much of anything, but it sure doesn't hurt. And it doesn't consume me (or most other Scoopers that I can tell). It's just something to talk about.
Oh I know, I want the pride too, but the computers liking us is a very good sign of things to come. More so than the ap. But it is is a tough call. Comes down to whether respect or the goods to back it up are more important to you, in this moment.
Like, say edey twists an ankle and cant go for a couple days, but we still struggle to beat an edey less team, but are ultimately successful. We'd be #1, but it'd feel crummy.
Traditional guards w/o Edey ain’t beating us without 65% 3fg%
Uh...we wouldn't struggle against an Edey-less team. We wipe the floor with them without Edey playing.
Strongly disagree. Their 3-point shooting performance was an anomaly (check out their history), as was our poor 3 point shooting. Even so, we rallied Big Time, outplaying them to catch up, and OT was a real possibility. I really do not understand why you wrote the bolded. I am not saying we would win a rematch easily, but I believe we would have more than a 50/50 chance, and that's with Edey.
Chances that we play Purdue again are almost 0 %. There's a high probability that both teams will be 2 seeds minimum if not 1 seeds so they wouldn't match up till the final 4. Similar to last year I believe a hot shooting team would take Purdue out before this rematch was ever met. Marquette has a way more balanced team than Purdue even in the loss. You take Edey off that team and they aren't even in the top 25.
[/quotei
I think there is a high probability we end up in the same region, if we do not have the same seed.
Chances that we play Purdue again are almost 0 %. There's a high probability that both teams will be 2 seeds minimum if not 1 seeds so they wouldn't match up till the final 4. Similar to last year I believe a hot shooting team would take Purdue out before this rematch was ever met. Marquette has a way more balanced team than Purdue even in the loss. You take Edey off that team and they aren't even in the top 25.
Big deal to undergrads...braggin' writes ta friends, aina?old guys too, hey
Purdue wouldn't be ranked without Edey.
Anybody who thinks Purdue would stink without Edey hasn’t been paying attention to what Purdue has done under Painter.
I agree they'd still be good.
But as good as Purdue has been under Painter, one Elite Eight in 19 years seems disappointing.
Anybody who thinks Purdue would stink without Edey hasn’t been paying attention to what Purdue has done under Painter.
Gotten ridiculously tall guys he can feed it to over and over?
I mean the Hummel, Moore and Johnson team was well rounded, and he had Carson Edwards, I can't think of any other top Guards that have come through the Purdue program off hand.
Muggsy
I think they are #3 this week.
What's the verdict? #3 or #4?
3 iz da floor, hey?
Jaden Ivey
Borges still has MU at #2
Murray has them at 4 …..(7 last week)
https://nevadasportsnet.com/news/reporters/murrays-ap-top-25-byu-breaks-into-new-look-top-25-that-features-six-new-teams
Murray keeping Kansas at 2...with Purdue at 3 and Arizona at 1. Really odd ballot.
I went back a few decades and couldn't find an example of a 1 loss team being ranked #2 (or #1) this early in the season. So 2 would be unprecedented (though I think it would be accurate).It's also not crazy to just think UConn is a little better. I disagree as a fan but they look pretty damn good so far.
There are a few examples of 1 loss teams at #3 at this point in the season. Gonzaga two seasons ago is the most recent example.
I think it is 3 or 4. We should be 3, but I could see voters believing that they need to move UConn above us because we lost and they're still undefeated.
It's also not crazy to just think UConn is a little better. I disagree as a fan but they look pretty damn good so far.
I went back a few decades and couldn't find an example of a 1 loss team being ranked #2 (or #1) this early in the season. So 2 would be unprecedented (though I think it would be accurate).
There are a few examples of 1 loss teams at #3 at this point in the season. Gonzaga two seasons ago is the most recent example.
I think it is 3 or 4. We should be 3, but I could see voters believing that they need to move UConn above us because we lost and they're still undefeated.
I went back a few decades and couldn't find an example of a 1 loss team being ranked #2 (or #1) this early in the season. So 2 would be unprecedented (though I think it would be accurate).
There are a few examples of 1 loss teams at #3 at this point in the season. Gonzaga two seasons ago is the most recent example.
I think it is 3 or 4. We should be 3, but I could see voters believing that they need to move UConn above us because we lost and they're still undefeated.
Shooter
I have never followed Kenpom and hope I am reading it correctly, but it looks like MU's SOS is #5 and the defense ranking of opponents is #1. As I mentioned last week, I wanted #1 and whatever they are ranked this week is fine by me because there are plenty of chances for very good wins coming up. Win the next five and MU does not leave the top five. If so, it will be about 15 straight weeks ranked in the top ten.
The Athletic's CJ Moore actually moved Marquette up from 3 to 2 after the loss. Arizona, UConn and Kansas round out his top 5.
Here's what he said about Purdue (with lots of MU in it) and Marquette:
1. Purdue
It’s hard enough trying to keep Zach Edey from scoring, but simply trying to guard him without fouling is proving just as difficult. Edey leads college basketball in fouls drawn per 40 minutes (10.4) — up from 7.0 per 40 last season. He shot 47 free throws in the last four games, all against high-major programs. Edey’s ability to get opposing big men in foul trouble was one main reason Purdue beat Marquette in the Maui Invitational championship game. Oso Ighodaro was limited to 26 minutes because of fouls; Marquette outscored Purdue by 10 points with him on the floor but was minus-23 in his 14 minutes on the bench.
In Purdue’s four games against high-majors, the opposing starting center has committed 18 fouls in 76 minutes. That’s 9.5 fouls per 40 minutes. If you combine the minutes played for those four centers for the rest of their season, they’re fouling 3.6 times per 40 minutes. The game is drastically different when you’re playing Purdue.
2. Marquette
The floater is one of the least efficient shots in basketball. Former Belmont coach Rick Byrd even forbid his players from taking them. Byrd likely would have lifted that rule if he had coached Ighodaro. Marquette’s starting center is already a unicorn with everything else he does. In addition to being able to initiate offense as a point center, he’s also mastered a running push shot in the lane that is unguardable. It’s not really a floater since he’s 6-foot-11 and doesn’t have to float it over anyone because his release point is so high. Ighodaro was good at that shot last season (54.5 percent) and is even better so far this year. He made 5-of-6 runners against Purdue and is 9 of 14 (64.2 percent) on shots categorized as runners by Synergy so far this year. That’s 1.29 points per possession. That’s efficiency!
Oh, great. Using advanced analytics. Why even play the games
Luke DeCock has us at 8...behind Creighton, Kansas and Villanova.
Luke DeCock has us at 8...behind Creighton, Kansas and Villanova.
Luke DeCock has us at 8...behind Creighton, Kansas and Villanova.
It’s unprecedented but so is MUs schedule for the most part other than Loyola Chicago in the 60s. You are correct in saying it’s warranted. We’ll see what the voters think shortly but 2 is not out of the realm of possibility.
Luke DeCock has us at 8...behind Creighton, Kansas and Villanova.
Luke DeCock has us at 8...behind Creighton, Kansas and Villanova.
Our schedule is crazy and I could maybe see us getting the 2 if Arizona hadn't played anyone, but a road win over #2 Duke and a neutral court win over Michigan St (who started #3) is at least comparable to a neutral court win over #1 Kansas and a road win over top 25 Illinois. We have the UCLA win on them but they have being undefeated on us.
Purdue and Arizona play each other in a few weeks so if we keep winning, were guarenteed to pass one of them!
Luke DeCock has us at 8...behind Creighton, Kansas and Villanova.
Oh, great. Using advanced analytics. Why even play the games
I went back a few decades and couldn't find an example of a 1 loss team being ranked #2 (or #1) this early in the season. So 2 would be unprecedented (though I think it would be accurate).
There are a few examples of 1 loss teams at #3 at this point in the season. Gonzaga two seasons ago is the most recent example.
I think it is 3 or 4. We should be 3, but I could see voters believing that they need to move UConn above us because we lost and they're still undefeated.
This makes sense.
This doesn't. That's what happens when The Cock has a vote.
#3. UCONN a close 4
#3. UCONN a close 42 voters have Connecticut #1 and 1 voter has Arizona #1. How does anyone honestly make a case for any team other than Purdue?
2 voters have Connecticut #1 and 1 voter has Arizona #1. How does anyone honestly make a case for any team other than Purdue?
Sidenote. I believe their is most an advance analytics have Marquette currently 6th ish.
KenPom 6, Evanmiya 6, Haslametrics 7, Torvik 9. Warren Nolan is at 2 with an ELO based ranking. Shotquality has us 3rd.
This can’t be right - I don’t see Bucky listed, not even in the others receiving votes section.
Coaches also at 3
https://sportsdata.usatoday.com/basketball/cbk/coaches-poll
Jeff Neiburg says he has Kansas ahead of Marquette because they have better metrics.
https://x.com/jeff_neiburg/status/1729248632266727531?s=46&t=jxqs74xjrj0YOEifH9UtCw
Jeff Neiburg says he has Kansas ahead of Marquette because they have better metrics.
https://x.com/jeff_neiburg/status/1729248632266727531?s=46&t=jxqs74xjrj0YOEifH9UtCw
Jeff Neiburg says he has Kansas ahead of Marquette because they have better metrics.
https://x.com/jeff_neiburg/status/1729248632266727531?s=46&t=jxqs74xjrj0YOEifH9UtCw
Still incredibly amused by warriorfred thinking we'd be 7th.
Actually, I adjusted it to 6th after Creighton lost. My rationale was most voters (1) are not "in tune" (diplomatic term) with quality wins and poor losses and have a tendency to focus merely on overall record, (2) there is an inherent bias toward Duke, and (3) yes, my fellow scoopers, Marquette may not get the recognition it deserves.
At least I showed my work and rationale.
It's not "doubling-down" when you admit you are wrong. I provided my prediction and rationale - primarily based on the voting habits (see Jeff Neiburg above).
I was off; it happens on the internet.
Coaches also at 3https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-2024-march-madness-men-field-predictions
https://sportsdata.usatoday.com/basketball/cbk/coaches-poll
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-2024-march-madness-men-field-predictions
The metrics that I am using via Barttovik are showing that Marquette isn't an underdog until January 30th @ Nova. Metrics also show they are predicted to just lost 3 more regular season games. @Nova, @Uconn and @Creighton all by less than 5 points
Subtle distinction, but we are predicted to lose seven more games, but currently favored in all but three.
Subtle distinction, but we are predicted to lose seven more games, but currently favored in all but three.
There’s almost too much there wrong to comment on.
No joke my exact thought
I was going to respond then just figured it was such a disaster not worth.
I think we need a reality check. Kolek is good but "the best in the country" comes from last year not this...lots of work to do.I know this isn't the main point of your post, but you may want to review the resumes of recent 1 seeds. Considering only power conference teams:
And no. 3/4? Think about the end season resume of a 1-line team. 4 losses max.
Having said that we can be that team and kolek that guy. But it's a mountain to climb.
I know this isn't the main point of your post, but you may want to review the resumes of recent 1 seeds. Considering only power conference teams:
2023: 5-loss Alabama, 5-loss Purdue, 7-loss Kansas (0/3 meet your criteria)
2022: 6-loss Baylor, 6-loss Kansas, 3-loss Arizona (1/3 meet your criteria)
2021: 4-loss Michigan, 2-loss Baylor, 6-loss Illinois (2/3 meet your criteria, but they each played 22 regular season games instead of 31, so a full schedule probably gives one or both 5+ losses)
2020: No tournament.
2019: 5-loss Duke, 3-loss Virginia, 6-loss North Carolina (1/3 meet your criteria)
We can assume 2021 Michigan does not go 9-0 in the missing regular season games, so they get >4 losses. I'll allow Baylor at 7-2 or better, but that's not even a given since they avoided a gauntlet: neutral-site vs Gonzaga (1-seed), home vs Texas (3-seed), home vs West Virginia (3-seed), away vs West Virginia (3-seed), home vs Oklahoma State (4-seed), home vs Texas Tech (6-seed), away vs Oklahoma (8-seed), home vs TCU, and home vs Tarleton State. So I'm adjusting 2021 to 1/3 power conference #1 seeds having 4 or fewer losses.
That means the last 4 tournaments have had 12 P6 teams as 1 seeds. 9 of the 12 had 5+ losses. Far from "4 losses max" to get a 1 seed.
Marquette could finish the season with losses vs Purdue, at Creighton, at Connecticut, at Villanova, and BET vs Creighton/Connecticut/Villanova and be a lock for a 1 seed.
Love this team, looking forward to a great season and being in the hunt for years to come.
But really, what does it matter if we’re ranked 1, 3, 5, 7, etc., in late November or early December? Enjoy, what will be will be.
I’ll give our resume the nod over everyone except Purdue.Not so much anymore. Lowly Nortwestern just took down Purdue. Again a scramble on top 10 rankings
Some said the same when we were 23, 20, 17, 13 etc.
We aren’t Kansas or Duke, not yet, and this is uncharted territory in many of our lives or in over 3 decades and that matters.
Being in the top 5 matters, managing to get to #1 would matter, even in December.
So let’s win tomorrow and get there.
If nothing else it’s fun af and it means Marquette is winning and that much closer to a 1 seed, which makes the ultimate road easier.
Also, more people will start to ask is Marquette in Michigan.
26Nobody cares about your IQ man.
Nobody cares about your IQ man.26
7 or 8 is my best guess.
1. Arizona
2. Kansas
3. Houston
4. UConn
5. Baylor
6. Purdue
7. Marquette
8. Gonzaga
9. North Carolina
10. Creighton (assuming a win tomorrow)
11. FAU
12. Texas
13. Colorado St.
14. BYU
15. Miami (FL)
Houston will be #2 and FAU will be back in the top 10. We will either be #7 or #6.
Creighton spanking undefeated Nebraska in Nebraska … up 19 second half
Have you looked at who Nebraska has played? Still a good rd win but the Huskers have had a rather soft schedule.
No but Creighton is cranking in all cylinders. Scheirman on fire, great rebounding, physical, and tough. They will be a handful
MU checks in at #10 in the initial net rankings:
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings
Well behind Princeton :(
7 is my guess - we have top 5 toughest schedules out of all the P6 teams. We win the last 3 non con games and that is 9-2 for non con. I think many people would be happy with that considering our SOS.
MU checks in at #10 in the initial net rankings:
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings
No biggie but I disagree. Kentucky loses at home to UNCW and only falls 4 while we fall 5? b-ass.
7 or 8 is my best guess.
1. Arizona
2. Kansas
3. Houston
4. UConn
5. Baylor
6. Purdue
7. Marquette
8. Gonzaga
9. North Carolina
10. Creighton (assuming a win tomorrow)
11. FAU
12. Texas
13. Colorado St.
14. BYU
15. Miami (FL)
Great … MU gets A$$ kicked by UW and they move into top 25. Infuriating
Where is Oklahoma rated?Voters too woke
Yeah, I thought Kentucky might fall 10 spots or more. That's the one that really surprises me in this poll.
The question is, who do you put above them?
4-3 Tennessee? (Personally I would but understand why not)
James Madison?
Oklahoma? (Who has 4 wins against sub-300 opponents, 1 win against Texas St, and 2 close wins over possible bubble teams)
Illinois? (Who has 1 win against a top 145 opponent...and they aren't a likely tourney team)
TAMU?
Duke? (Who just lost twice?)
Wisconsin? Clemson? San Diego State? (None of whom were ranked last week, UW wasn't even receiving votes).
Last week was brutal for the top 25. #1, #3, #4, #7, #8, #10, #12, #14, #18, #21, #23 and 2/3 of the top others receiving votes all lost at least one and some of them were losses to brutal teams.
Excellent point.FAU's home loss to Bryant says hello. Bryant's other wins:
Really though, did any ranked team sustain a loss like that - at home to a CAA team that had lost by 30 to App State? It's probably the worst loss of the season for any ranked team right now, and I think a pretty solid argument could be made that Kentucky shouldn't be ranked at all.
But you're right ... none of this is done in a vacuum. And there was lots of losing in the ranks behind Kentucky.
#8 in the AP:Huge opportunity this week for Arkansas Pine Bluff to knock off #5 and #7 and move into the top 20
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-pol
This weeks schedules of teams ahead of us:
1. Arizona: vs Badgers
2. Kansas: vs Kansas City, vs Missouri
3. Houston: vs Rice, vs Jackson St
4. Purdue: vs Iowa, vs Alabama
5. UCONN: vs UNC, vs pine bluff
6. Baylor: vs Seton Hall, @mich state
7. Gonzaga: vs pine bluff, @washington
FAU's home loss to Bryant says hello. Bryant's other wins:
Howard (Kenpom #212)
Brown (Kenpom #252)
NAIA Fisher College
D-III Springfield College
Bryant is also the proud owner of losses to Kenpom #269 Boston University and Kenpom #322 Manhattan.
FAU at #11 right now is absurd.
FAU's home loss to Bryant says hello. Bryant's other wins:
Howard (Kenpom #212)
Brown (Kenpom #252)
NAIA Fisher College
D-III Springfield College
Bryant is also the proud owner of losses to Kenpom #269 Boston University and Kenpom #322 Manhattan.
FAU at #11 right now is absurd.
NET formula should be open sourced.
Definitely not. Once RPI became public (or at least a close enough approximation) it was quickly broken and easy to game. The NET is close enough to that, but the cheat is to run up efficiency margins, which is still challenging (as opposed to just scheduling the right teams). Either way, if they make it easier, that will just necessitate a replacement sooner rather than later.
I guess I was under the impression that coaches weren’t naive and already knew how to game the system for the most part as you alluded to.
General idea is one thing, but RPI pretty much collapsed once the formula was known. I'd rather have some mystery than risk the whole thing having to be redone.
“There will be a prominent measure placed on you, but we’re it going to tell you what it is. We may change the measurement from time to time, but again, we don’t need to tell you about such changes.”
It’s odd to me
“There will be a prominent measure placed on you, but we’re it going to tell you what it is. We may change the measurement from time to time, but again, we don’t need to tell you about such changes.”
It’s odd to me
Odd because 1. It’s the most prominent ranking (it is THE ranking of team sheets) and 2. It’s the NCAA’s metric, not a third party’s.
, I want one of our only 2 losses to be against the AP#1.
In addition, I should note that multiple times I found errors in the RPI calculations, reported them to the NCAA, and they corrected them. #TrustIssues
Pretty much a lock for 7 this week. My best guess:
1. Arizona
2. Kansas
3. Houston
4. Purdue
5. UConn
6. Baylor
7. Marquette
8. Creighton
9. North Carolina
10. Oklahoma
11. Tennessee
12. Kentucky
13. Gonzaga
14. FAU
15. Clemson
A little surprised by where you have FAU--Bryant loss is still brutal and their only really good win is against A&M (I also don't think A&M should be top 25 this week). I'd have Illinois in that top 15, even with the loss on the road at UT. I think it's gonna be a weird 13-20 this week.
#7
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Dylan Sinn (IU, Purdue, ND) writer doesn’t like what he sees from MU and has them at 14. Everyone else has them inside the top 9.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/dylan-sinn/2023/week-6
#7
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Dylan Sinn (IU, Purdue, ND) writer doesn’t like what he sees from MU and has them at 14. Everyone else has them inside the top 9.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/dylan-sinn/2023/week-6
#7
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Dylan Sinn (IU, Purdue, ND) writer doesn’t like what he sees from MU and has them at 14. Everyone else has them inside the top 9.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/dylan-sinn/2023/week-6
Do we have to trash every guy with a slightly different opinion?? Lmao. Who cares
Dylan Sinn (IU, Purdue, ND) writer doesn’t like what he sees from MU and has them at 14. Everyone else has them inside the top 9.
Do we have to trash every guy with a slightly different opinion?? Lmao. Who caresHence the jokes. It is December. MU is in a good place... one voter isn't as impressed. Meh.
Hence the jokes. It is December. MU is in a good place... one voter isn't as impressed. Meh.He's also the lone voter who didn't pick Arizona number one
We're just 18 pts behind #6 Baylor, well in front (by 148 pts) of #8 Creighton.
Meanwhile ...
Surprised to see Gonzaga stay in the top 10. Surprised to see the Fightin' Mosers - who have yet to play a single ranked team - climb 8 spots to #11.
Clemson made biggest jump +11 up to #13.
FAU fell 4 spots to #15 but is still just ahead of an Illinois team that beat them.
Madison and Miami stay in despite getting routed.
Northwestern climbs in at #25.
What is St. Thomas ranked?
What is St. Thomas ranked?
26 ;DI'm contacting the leg TAMU!
I'm contacting the leg TAMU!
Whisky loss still haunting us. Why is Kansas 2 and we are 7
Answer: Whisky loss
I think the appropriate questions is Where do they want to be ranked…
I don’t think we’ll ever recover, wilbur. We can’t claim a championship if we’re not number 1 on December 11.Give us all a break Rita. You professing to think? Never happen. Doodle, maybe.
I don’t think we’ll ever recover, wilbur. We can’t claim a championship if we’re not number 1 on December 11.
Northwestern climbs in at #25.
Hell of a comeback for Chris Collins in Evanston. Follows up their first NCAA tourney ever with 5 straight years of sub .500 records and never finishing above 10th in conference. Then swings it around out of nowhere to finish second in the B10 last year and win another NCAA game. Looking good for back to back NCAA berths which seemed unthinkable not long ago.
Laying down a bet on each of the top 12 teams as we speak…Seriously, that’s an interesting stat, this is true?
Hell of a comeback for Chris Collins in Evanston. Follows up their first NCAA tourney ever with 5 straight years of sub .500 records and never finishing above 10th in conference. Then swings it around out of nowhere to finish second in the B10 last year and win another NCAA game. Looking good for back to back NCAA berths which seemed unthinkable not long ago.
It is true. I've been seeing it around so I looked into it. As far as the bet goes, you might want to think that over. My initial reaction when I saw your post was to think, "Yeah. Me too." But then I took a look. On DraftKings right now, placing $1 on each of those teams to win the natty ($12 "invested") would return between $11 and $61 if one of them won. Sounds pretty good. But when I looked at the actual results I decided I didn't want to get swayed by Villanova's 2016 run. That's the team that sets the "Top 12" cutoff. If you take out that outlier, the value proposition looks a bit different. Here are the champions since 2004 and their Week 6 rankings:
2004 - UConn (1)
2005 - UNC (4)
2006 - Florida (7)
2007 - Florida (5)
2008 - Kansas (3)
2009 - UNC (1)
2010 - Duke (7)
2011 - UConn (4)
2012 - Kentucky (3)
2013 - Louisville (6)
2014 - UConn (9)
2015 - Duke (2)
2016 - Villanova (12)
2017 - UNC (7)
2018 - Villanova (1)
2019 - Virginia (6)
2020 - No Champion
2021 - Baylor (2)
2022 - Kansas (7)
2023 - UConn (3)
So, if you recognize that Nos. 10-12 are outliers, the odds of hitting a larger payout go down pretty dramatically. It's still likely net positive, but not by a lot.
For the Marquette fans, I think that the real statistic isn't "since 2004 the eventual champion has been in the Week 6 Top 12" but is "since 2004 the eventual champion has been in the Week 6 Top 9 every season but one -- and has been No. 7 more than any other rank."
DePaul fans are envious, or at least they should be if there still are any left.
It is true. I've been seeing it around so I looked into it. As far as the bet goes, you might want to think that over. My initial reaction when I saw your post was to think, "Yeah. Me too." But then I took a look. On DraftKings right now, placing $1 on each of those teams to win the natty ($12 "invested") would return between $11 and $61 if one of them won. Sounds pretty good. But when I looked at the actual results I decided I didn't want to get swayed by Villanova's 2016 run. That's the team that sets the "Top 12" cutoff. If you take out that outlier, the value proposition looks a bit different. Here are the champions since 2004 and their Week 6 rankings:
2004 - UConn (1)
2005 - UNC (4)
2006 - Florida (7)
2007 - Florida (5)
2008 - Kansas (3)
2009 - UNC (1)
2010 - Duke (7)
2011 - UConn (4)
2012 - Kentucky (3)
2013 - Louisville (6)
2014 - UConn (9)
2015 - Duke (2)
2016 - Villanova (12)
2017 - UNC (7)
2018 - Villanova (1)
2019 - Virginia (6)
2020 - No Champion
2021 - Baylor (2)
2022 - Kansas (7)
2023 - UConn (3)
So, if you recognize that Nos. 10-12 are outliers, the odds of hitting a larger payout go down pretty dramatically. It's still likely net positive, but not by a lot.
For the Marquette fans, I think that the real statistic isn't "since 2004 the eventual champion has been in the Week 6 Top 12" but is "since 2004 the eventual champion has been in the Week 6 Top 9 every season but one -- and has been No. 7 more than any other rank."
The eventual national champion has been in the top 12 on December 11 (er...Week 6 poll) every year since 2004.ESPN is stealing your material
ESPN is stealing your material
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/39097768/history-says-one-12-men-college-basketball-teams-win-national-title (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/39097768/history-says-one-12-men-college-basketball-teams-win-national-title)
We're pretty much a lock for #6. May have been in danger due to our lackluster performance over the Tommies but the three teams right behind us all lost and the fourth only played UWGB. Best guess:Still can't get Kansas. Rest I can see. We kicked their asses. Only explanation. Bad beat by useless Wisconsin. That will drag around our neck all year
1. Purdue
2. Kansas
3. Houston
4. Arizona
5. UConn
6. Marquette
7. Oklahoma
8. Tennessee
9. Kentucky
10. North Carolina
11. Gonzaga
12. Baylor
13. Florida Atlantic
14. Illinois
15. BYU
16. Creighton
17. Texas
18. Clemson
19. Colorado State
20. Duke
21. James Madison
22. Virginia
23. Miami (Fl)
24. Auburn
25. Memphis
Still can't get Kansas. Rest I can see. We kicked their asses. Only explanation. Bad beat by useless Wisconsin. That will drag around our neck all year
And the St. Thomas lossTwo albatrosses hanging on MU's neck, cursed!
Highest ranked 2 loss team. Can't complain.
Just out. Marquette is #6 in AP Poll.
Behind #5 UCONN and ahead of #7 Oklahoma
Oklahoma's ranking is a freaking joke. They've only played 2 games against Top 100 (NET) ranked teams, AND 0 against top 50 ranked teams. how in the world do they crack the top 10. (see schedule and rankings below)MU lost to trash rodent team and St Thomas (didn't cover), MU should be 26
C. Mich. - 319
Mss. Valley St. 362
Texas St. - 170
UT Rio Grande - N/A
Iowa - 59
USC - 87
AR-Pine Bluff - 330
Providence - 71
Arkansas - 101
Green Bay - 262
Oklahoma's ranking is a freaking joke. They've only played 2 games against Top 100 (NET) ranked teams, AND 0 against top 50 ranked teams. how in the world do they crack the top 10. (see schedule and rankings below)
C. Mich. - 319
Mss. Valley St. 362
Texas St. - 170
UT Rio Grande - N/A
Iowa - 59
USC - 87
AR-Pine Bluff - 330
Providence - 71
Arkansas - 101
Green Bay - 262
Oklahoma's ranking is a freaking joke. They've only played 2 games against Top 100 (NET) ranked teams, AND 0 against top 50 ranked teams. how in the world do they crack the top 10. (see schedule and rankings below)
C. Mich. - 319
Mss. Valley St. 362
Texas St. - 170
UT Rio Grande - N/A
Iowa - 59
USC - 87
AR-Pine Bluff - 330
Providence - 71
Arkansas - 101
Green Bay - 262
Somebody had to replace Baylor as the fraud undefeated team.
Seth Davis putting Michigan State at 19 is very wild.Totally deserved. ::)
6? Even with the loss to St. Thomas?
Totally deserved. ::)
Seth Davis putting Michigan State at 19 is very wild.
Are the bums that vote for this gonna make us wait till the 26th (and the 2nd)?
They’re clearly not religious people, so hopefully we see it on 12/25
#10, thought it would be 26
UConn still number 5…….AP voters treating them kindly after getting blown by SH…..struggling to beat SJ….and losing Clingan for a few weeks.AP hates MU
AP hates MU
I don’t think 10 is outrageous, but Kentucky being 8 after losing at home to Wilmington feels pretty rich, given their best win aside from UNC is Miami who have fallen off completely.
AP is flawed in that sense. Movement in the rankings are solely based on how teams performed relative to each other for that week.
My opinion?...we are a top 15 team at this point.CoLe
CoLe
Schedule wise has UConn really played that better of a schedule than MU???
SHU to me seems like a worse loss than Providence....I dont get it?
Even if people say "well UConn went 1-1", so did MU.
Schedule wise has UConn really played that better of a schedule than MU???
For those complaining about UConn, they lost 217 points, that's a lot. Their rank didn't change because the two teams right behind them also lost.
Who do you want above UConn? 3 loss Tennessee? 3 loss Marquette? 3 loss UNC? Kentucky who lost at home to UNC (Wilmomgton)? FAU who lost at home to Bryant? Oklahoma who lost to the only tournament lock that they've played?
I agree with Kam: https://twitter.com/csgkam/status/1739361483610341594Yup
Further proof Cam is transferringHe GOWNE
Given that December has included two pretty bad road losses, as well as a win over St. Thomas that many here consider a loss, us being in the top 10 is showing a lot of national respect to the Marquette program.
Further proof Cam is transferring…to Wisconsin
…to WisconsinMSU a big MU donor blocked rodents
Won’t pass NC
Will pass FAU
Should pass AZ but won’t
Will not get passed by anybody
9
Will be 9.
Should be 8.
On January 1 it really doesn’t matter.
Man, I was CONVINCED we were gonna be #9 this week. Pleasantly surprised
Will pass NC
Will pass FAU
Should pass AZ and will
Will not get passed by anybody
7
Kentucky should be at least below 10 for losing 80-73 to UNC-Wilmington at Rupp ::). They do not deserve to be above us after that fiasco.
Nice call.
Agree that we should be ranked ahead of Kentucky. Our best wins are better than theirs, and our worst losses are nowhere near as bad as theirs. But that's OK. We'll be ranked ahead of them on April 1.
Nice call.
Agree that we should be ranked ahead of Kentucky. Our best wins are better than theirs, and our worst losses are nowhere near as bad as theirs. But that's OK. We'll be ranked ahead of them on April 1.
Realistically we should be #4 but I suppose I'm biased.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f125f8bec9913e791907cd5625ed6868/tenor.gif?itemid=15659382)
Just the biased part Muggsy. We all are! :)I'm biased to Manatee dishes, delicious!
HNY!
Just the biased part Muggsy. We all are! :)
HNY!
I'm biased to Manatee dishes, delicious!
Manatees are kind to humans and have been misunderstood for quite some time. They should be respected and admired.HNY, Muggsy
HNY, Muggsy
The Spleen of a Pickled Manatee is a New Year's tradition in my house.
Manatees have been around for 50 million years Dr. B. They have been nothing but stellar members of our tremendous animal kingdom while peacefully and gracefully patrolling our waters. They have zero natural predators and didn't have any problems until we showed up. There have been a grand total of 0.0 manatee attacks on humans. It's shocking to me they are so kind and don't randomly submerge members of our species on a regular basis.
You know when people are very deliberately trolling you, the best thing you can do is not respond.
Manatees have been around for 50 million years Dr. B. They have been nothing but stellar members of our tremendous animal kingdom while peacefully and gracefully patrolling our waters. They have zero natural predators and didn't have any problems until we showed up. There have been a grand total of 0.0 manatee attacks on humans. It's shocking to me they are so kind and don't randomly submerge members of our species on a regular basis.
It still bothers me Brew.
Which everyone knows and everyone knows you'll respond which is the only reason people troll you.
It's like you paint a target on your chest, and every time someone hits it, you paint another target as fast as you can so they can fire again.
People don't take those shots because they care about manatees or any of the other creatures you want to comfort, they do it because you constantly invite them to. If you want it to stop (or slowly decline, at least), stop replying every time someone trolls you.
Well, that's one school of thought. The other is that if Mugs posted his manatee thoughts on a basketball website, no one would actually respond seriously as there is nothing to disagree with, then the thread would die at one post. So the silly responses add awareness to what 98% agree to and keep the thread alive. Except Chili (Moo, Moo, I Love You).
Scoop takes itself WAY too seriously.
Wait, you can eat manatee? Is it like whale, or more like dolphin?
We must protect our marine mammals at all costs.
Getting us back to basketball. Can someone provide the link that shows how everyone voted? I’ve had it before and can’t find it.
The Spleen of a Pickled Manatee is a New Year's tradition in my house.Do you pickle the whole manatee, or just certain parts. Also, does the brine make a good reduction or vinaigrette?
Good morning Muggsy.
Which everyone knows and everyone knows you'll respond which is the only reason people troll you.Yeah, I think you are fundamentally missing on why he posts these things int he first place.
It's like you paint a target on your chest, and every time someone hits it, you paint another target as fast as you can so they can fire again.
People don't take those shots because they care about manatees or any of the other creatures you want to comfort, they do it because you constantly invite them to. If you want it to stop (or slowly decline, at least), stop replying every time someone trolls you.
Wait, you can eat manatee? Is it like whale, or more like dolphin?
We must protect our marine mammals at all costs.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3orifgQKy32XgQo3UA/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47dbfw4zsyq66lu1pnl76e7axmt2cvl8t0pit64q3c&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
No, 26Correct
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2023
Dylan Sinn's poll is quite something.
Muggsy very obviously has some major problems in his head. Whether these are psychological, psychiatric, autism related only a professional can determine. His obsessions, desperate need for constant attention, his attacks on anyone who dares to disagree followed by "why am I being attacked?" when anyone replies by ridiculing him or his obsessions is as predictable as the sun rising and setting once every 24 hours.
I have no professional credentials to back up my observations. They are a layman's opinion, but I have a family member with autism and Muggsy certainly shares many of his characteristics.
This is my honest opinion. I present his Israeli War thread (with its childishly revised name) as Exhibit A.
For Exhibit B I present his hand wringing over an alligator's death, demanding a thorough investigation, while absolutely refusing to acknowledge the tragedy of death of the woman who was chomped in half despite several scoopers (including me) trying to encourage him to do so. This was the turning point for me regarding Muggsy.
Again...my honest opinion is that you need professional help Muggsy.
If the mods send me on vacation for this post...it will be worth it.
Snoop
I am a big fan of you and your posts on scoop, but I stand with Muggsy. I wish there were more of Muggsy on scoop.
Lauren Walsh, who has us ranked 5th in AP is interesting.
She says she is from WSMV-TV in Winston-Salem, NC.
Last time I looked, WSMV-TV is the NBC affiliate in Nashville.
I never "childly revised" the Israel War thread.
Co-sign
Snoop
I am a big fan of you and your posts on scoop, but I stand with Muggsy. I wish there were more of Muggsy on scoop.
Yep - if dude's worst qualities are that he's over enthusiastic about MUBB and he really like manatees I think I'd take him over many of the other unbanned posters on Scoop
Snoop
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts. It definitely puts things into perspective. Based off our of interactions, I know you are first class man. Fully understand your thoughts on Israel and your past experiences.
Will add, I am very certain that Muggsy is a good man and has strong opinions. For the record, I would stand with you if someone sent out a harsh post about you.
Now to MU, thoughts on the season to date?
Snoop
Fair points on the season. I noted after Maui that I felt like it was already March, and it was not even Thanksgiving after the Purdue game. No doubt some disappointing performances but being top ten all season is a great accomplishment. I also think the improvement on defense outweighs the decline on offense to me. I do not see them going backwards on defense and there is room to improve on offense.
As I sit here today, I am sticking with the goal that the players called out, winning a NC. They set the bar high and offered several great performances early and fan expectations rose quickly. I would be more surprised by early March exit then I would a FF appearance.
Snoop
Keep the faith. As for Shaka, he will get a T if he pulls that move again.
#11
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
No one can complain about pollsters the rest of the year. I'm shocked a 4 loss team isn't outside the top 15
No one can complain about pollsters the rest of the year. I'm shocked a 4 loss team isn't outside the top 15
We've gotten a lot of respect from AP and coaches voters all year.
There can always be a quibble - like, how are we ranked lower than an Illinois team we beat at their place? - but pretty minor.
Being ranked #11 is more than fair.
We've gotten a lot of respect from AP and coaches voters all year.
There can always be a quibble - like, how are we ranked lower than an Illinois team we beat at their place? - but pretty minor.
Being ranked #11 is more than fair.
The rankings that matter
Latest Odds to win the National Championship, per @BetMGM:
Purdue +800
Arizona +1100
Houston +1100
Kansas +1400
UConn +1500
Marquette +1800
Kentucky +2000
Duke +2000
Tennessee +2000
Michigan St +2000
UNC +2500
Creighton +2500
Baylor +2500
Auburn +3500
Alabama +3500
FAU +3500
Memphis +4000
Not rankings, and don't matter one bit unless you have money on someone on the list.
Not rankings, and don't matter one bit unless you have money on someone on the list.
Not rankings, and don't matter one bit unless you have money on someone on the list.
JayBee
I am in at +2200. Bought the ticket late October.
Coleman
Hope you have a winner. I definitely am going to increase my wager over next 7-10 days. All the pessimism on here has me feeling good. FYI--Currently I have $200 to win $4400
Pity so many educated by Jesuits are sinnersWell…Shia Labeouf, after portraying Padre Pio, is converting to Catholicism and has begun the process to become a priest, and my buddy still sees him at Santa Anita playing a race or two every couple weeks🐴. Should that disqualify him? Many Jesuits have been known to enjoy a few 🥃 or 🍺 once in awhile. Moderation.
Kudos to "Real Chili 83" for this thread...noticed it was started on this day in 2012 and has 236+ pages of responses (not sure if the number of pages is relative to the browser session...but suffice to say a lot).
I don't see any other active threads earlier than that though I know there must be earlier not active since scoop started sometime in 2006 it appears. Also not counting the superbar or other sections ..I only Hang at the Al.
Honorable mention to Jsglow with the the "Recruiting as of" thread started in 2015 and going strong with over 1431+ pages of responses.
Well…Shia Labeouf, after portraying Padre Pio, is converting to Catholicism and has begun the process to become a priest, and my buddy still sees him at Santa Anita playing a race or two every couple weeks🐴. Should that disqualify him? Many Jesuits have been known to enjoy a few 🥃 or 🍺 once in awhile. Moderation.Had a priest in HS who told us if we ever saw him in a bar we should call him Mister !
Would be surprised if MU still was 26This nonsense may actually be accurate if they lose today
17.
Need to get back on track today.
17.
Need to get back on track today.
Getting some good respect. Only ranked team with 5 losses.
Pity so many educated by Jesuits are sinners
Well…Shia Labeouf, after portraying Padre Pio, is converting to Catholicism and has begun the process to become a priest, and my buddy still sees him at Santa Anita playing a race or two every couple weeks🐴. Should that disqualify him? Many Jesuits have been known to enjoy a few 🥃 or 🍺 once in awhile. Moderation.
Dorks that try to figure this out - where will we be?26
12 or 13.Choose one not two.
1. UConn
2. Purdue
3. North Carolina
4. Houston
5. Tennessee
6. Kentucky
7. Kansas
8. Auburn
9. Arizona
10. Duke
11. Illinois (Assuming they beat Rutgers tomorrow)
12. Oklahoma
13. Marquette
14. Wisconsin
15. Utah State
16. Memphis (Assuming they beat Tulane tomorrow)
17. Baylor
18. Dayton
19. Creighton
20. FAU
21. Colorado State
22. BYU
23. Iowa State
24. Texas Tech
25. New Mexico
I could see us as high as 12 and as low as 14. Changes to 11/13 if Illinois loses tomorrow.
I think Seton Hall could be the top team in others receiving votes
Duke only will fall three spots with a loss at home to Pitt? Baylor hasn't exactly impressed me and that's their best win. How about them.falling at least 7 spots TAMU?
It is, and should be, the whole season that counts, not just one game. That’s one reason I pay very little attention to the voted polls. They are much more volatile than they should be, especially once teams have played 15-20 games.
That having been said, Duke is often overrated because of the name (another reason to ignore these polls). But, Marquette leapfrogging Wisconsin because of their bad loss is a stretch. The stench of MU’s home loss to Butler is still a little too fresh.
82
This group has been ranked for a year now and a long stretch in the top ten and I appreciate what that means. It is not easy, and it should not be taken for granted.
I know some think my saying this year is being run like an NBA team is crazy, but I think there is truth to that. Last season they battled at a crazy high level starting with the start of the BE schedule and won a couple of games simply by playing harder and wanting it more. This season I think they are playing smarter and are showing what experience looks like. Good/great teams in the NBA know if it is their night or not and live with that. Not every game has to be a win or a thing of beauty during the regular season.
I have heard Shaka say several times this season that he has a pretty good idea prior to the game if they are going to play well/win or not. I do not recall that being said last season. First time I heard him say that was after the UW game. IMO, he did not panic or make major adjustments in that game, he let them do their thing. Last year everyone loved the fight in the team, this year I love the experience of knowing that every game is not the NC game.
Duke only will fall three spots with a loss at home to Pitt? Baylor hasn't exactly impressed me and that's their best win. How about them.falling at least 7 spots TAMU?
Duke only will fall three spots with a loss at home to Pitt? Baylor hasn't exactly impressed me and that's their best win. How about them.falling at least 7 spots TAMU?
82
Of course, it is not load management or lacking the fight. IMO, Shaka went into overdrive last season with his intensity and caught up in the moment. Once winning the BE was a possibility he went to a higher level of coaching. I think he learned about himself last year and he will not get caught up in the moment again. I get it, winning the BE last season was an unreal accomplishment and they got it done. I think there is a more mature Shaka in regard to coaching and it is a better version.
For the record, I love the regular season, maybe more than the NCAA 99% of the time. There are special teams with lofty expectations that make the NCAA even more important than usual from time to time and this is one of those years, imo.
Duke only will fall three spots with a loss at home to Pitt? Baylor hasn't exactly impressed me and that's their best win. How about them.falling at least 7 spots TAMU?
Two nice wins this week and we'll be back in the top 10.My guess is we move up one to 16. However very close in point totals . So with two wins this week we could move closer to top 10.
My guess is we move up one to 16. However very close in point totals . So with two wins this week we could move closer to top 10.
82
No, he is not taking his foot off of the gas. I thought last year he had two feet on the gas for the last month + of the season. I think it toke a minor toll on the team and a lesson was learned.
Voters may factor in that Duke was missing two startersMissing starters and winning gets you punished in the football poll. ;)
No, he is not taking his foot off of the gas. I thought last year he had two feet on the gas for the last month + of the season. I think it toke a minor toll on the team and a lesson was learned.
Scoopers who think we will be in the top 10 are living in La La Land. ;D Simply looking at numbers 11-16 and then asking WHY would we leapfrog them makes it clear that reality is being treated as an inconvenient truth.
For the record, I know we won't be in the top 10 in tomorrow's poll and I didn't say differently.
I'm saying if we take care of business with a decisive 2-0 week, and if there are the usual number of upsets in other games, we have a great chance of being back in the top 10 the following week.
I know that 82. I was not referring to you, and I was specifically referring to tomorrow's poll. Agree that we can get there in time, but the idea that we will move up 8 spots is ridiculous. There's a lot of traffic in front of us.
I haven't seen one person whose suggested we will be in the top 10 tomorrow
My mistake. I thought somewhere I saw someone suggesting that we would be.
Berman at 15 from 19
Grammer 11 from 15.
I'd say we'll end at 13.
Bozich has us 8th
Murray moved us from (NR) to 23
14
14
14 in AP Poll 15 in USA Today Coaches Poll
Dayton 2 BEast?
Reasonable. I'm good with rationality.
Dayton 2 BEast?
Better that my sister should start turning tricks than Dayton should be admitted to the Big East.
14 in AP Poll 15 in USA Today Coaches PollCoaches hate MU
Dayton 2 BEast?
No team fits the mold better. North"east" location. Basketball history and present. Competitive. Rabid fans. Urban.
If the next contract incentivizes Val to add someone, it should be Dayton.
If Green Bay and Dayton aren't "urban," then what are they exactly?The census definition of urban:
If Green Bay and Dayton aren't "urban," then what are they exactly?
Coaches hate MU
Coaches dropped them a spot for Shaka losing the locker room.How can he coach if he can't even find the locker room.
DumpsI think you meant dung
6,8,10, and 11 have already lost this week.26
6,8,10, and 11 have already lost this week.
Let’s win Saturday first. We didn’t look great tonight.
I expect MU to play with tremendous energy on Saturday and take care of business.
I expect MU to play with tremendous energy on Saturday and take care of business.Loss
Let’s win Saturday first. We didn’t look great tonight.
Played down to a bad team's level at times. Still won comfortably. It happens.
This. Maybe it's the alcohol, maybe it's surviving 30 murders after walking 2 blocks in Chicago, but the game was fine. On to the next
I got off on 87th for a Maxwell st polish…
So, 5th?+21
Fraudklahoma just lost again, so they're gonna drop like a rock.
So many others falling. Could we get ahead of Kansas - a team with one fewer loss but one we dominated on a neutral court? There's no shame in losing at Iowa State, so they probably don't fall that far. But top 10 quite likely for our alma mater!
I've wondered if Kansas could actually move up to 6 on Monday. A close road loss to Iowa State is much better than #6 Kentucky's pounding by South Carolina and teams #8 through #11 all had worse losses, some of the two losses. Will enough voters move #12 Duke and/or #13 Wisconsin up all the way to #6?
I’m guessing 11 with us passing Arizona, Auburn, and Oklahoma. We should pass KU too but the voters will give them a pass because they’re in a love affair with the Big 12.
I’m guessing 11 with us passing Arizona, Auburn, and Oklahoma. We should pass KU too but the voters will give them a pass because they’re in a love affair with the Big 12.how ‘bout wherever Wisconsin is ranked, we’ll be one spot behind?
how ‘bout wherever Wisconsin is ranked, we’ll be one spot behind?
Who cares about Wisconsin?
Who cares about Wisconsin?me. Keep your enemies close.
Too many people.theirs is an insufferable fandom. but hey, I’m lost and don’t know ball. Fook it.
Mainly, sconnies that went to Marquette instead.
Too many people.
Mainly, sconnies that went to Marquette instead.
10+16
theirs is an insufferable fandom. but hey, I’m lost and don’t know ball. Fook it.
Marquette has won 4 in a row, just pantsed Seton Hall getting less than 4 minutes from Kam and Chase missing another game. Kolek scored 4 and the game wasn’t in doubt the final 10 minutes. Doc and Jordan Love were in the house. But we’ll be ranked behind Wisconsin on January 30th and for some that’s enough to have to complain
TAMU brought this up elsewhere, but #15 Baylor and #16 Dayton also lost, and that may benefit us more than it does other programs. There are 24 ballots that have at least one of those teams ahead of us, and a total of 32 instances on those 24 ballots where Baylor and/or Dayton is ahead of us.
ESPN puts us at 7 in their power rankings
Says Tuesday a must win for Villanova
In 9 of those instances, one of those teams is immediately in front of us, and in 11 more the team is no more than 3 spots ahead. That gives us a potential for movement that teams ahead of us don't have. It's possible we get an extra 20-30 points in the poll because of teams behind us that also lost.
Berman 7
Carino 8
That's encouraging; they had us as 15 and 14 last week.
1. UConn
2. Purdue
3. North Carolina
4. Houston
5. Tennessee
6. Wisconsin
7. Duke
8. Kansas
9. Kentucky
10. Marquette
11. Creighton
12. Illinois
13. Utah State
14. Iowa State
15. Arizona
16. Texas Tech
17. Auburn
18. Baylor
19. New Mexico
20. TCU
21. FAU
22. Dayton
23. Oklahoma
24. Alabama
25. BYU
I could see us as high as 8 but no lower than 10. I think we end up 10, primarily due to name recognition with UK and KU.
Some of these guys really should have voting privileges revoked
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Based on results I’d like to see someone justify Illinois at 10 ahead of Wisconsin and Marquette?
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Some of these guys really should have voting privileges revoked
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Based on results I’d like to see someone justify Illinois at 10 ahead of Wisconsin and Marquette?
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Some of these guys really should have voting privileges revoked
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Based on results I’d like to see someone justify Illinois at 10 ahead of Wisconsin and Marquette?
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-college-basketball-poll
Some of these are truly atrocious.
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/jb-ricks/2023/week-13
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/dylan-sinn/2023/week-13
JB Ricks is surely special. His week to week rankings are just crazy. Clearly he does not watch any of these teams.
We should be ahead of Duke but #9 is okay. Let's go now!!
That was then(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWui-LTCQcKESbHcrsa0npjlHsFJK3AhU__uuMch5nJAuGGiF1Iz1vhSZE6Ye4Vm55fCkI)
That was then
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWui-LTCQcKESbHcrsa0npjlHsFJK3AhU__uuMch5nJAuGGiF1Iz1vhSZE6Ye4Vm55fCkI)
Crazy that the Big East, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, and SEC each have a team in the AP Top 5, and 2 in the AP Top 10.
Seems like a good time to reintroduce the debate about conference strength: does it mean more to have real quality among the top 2-3-4 teams in a conference, or is it better to have depth where many/most teams can beat a lot of teams on any given night?
What conferences are being seen as the strongest this year?
Crazy that the Big East, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, and SEC each have a team in the AP Top 5, and 2 in the AP Top 10.
Seems like a good time to reintroduce the debate about conference strength: does it mean more to have real quality among the top 2-3-4 teams in a conference, or is it better to have depth where many/most teams can beat a lot of teams on any given night?
What conferences are being seen as the strongest this year?
With UNC's loss we will almost certainly pass the loser between them and Puke Saturday. (Assuming we take care of business of course).
If the other big weekend games go our way (Houston>KU, Kentucky>Tenn, PU>BADgers) we would almost certainly be #5 going into NMD.
I actually think we need Tennessee to win in order to be top 5. I think we're already in line to pass them given their home loss to the Cocks last night. If UK beats Tennessee on the road, i think that will be more than enough for them to leapfrog us. I think we only had like 7 votes on them and beating Florida and Tennessee is a lot more impressive than beating Nova and Georgetown
Good point - I suppose safest bet is for UK to lose tonight and then win Saturday.
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/JR_m79oDny0AAAAC/simpsons-milhouse.gif)
Obviously dependent on winning at Georgetown, but here's a rooting guide for this weekend's games and Marquette trying to get back to #1 for the first time since 1978:I suspect we go past one Wisconsin, one of UNC/Duke, one of Houston/Kansas, and Tennessee. Pretty good chance we're back to top-5 by Monday with a win today. I'd put the ceiling at 4 (unlikely) and the floor at 6 (if Duke and KU win, we might stay behind Houston and UNC as well).
- 1) UConn at St. John's - Cheer for the Johnnies, we won't pass UConn, but it would get them back to the pack.
- 2) Purdue at 6) Wisconsin - Cheer for Bucky, unless it makes you sick. Decent chance we pass Wisconsin regardless with their loss at Nebraska, beating Purdue would get the Boilers back to the pack. Voters may forget Nebraska if Bucky beats Purdue, but if we want to pass Purdue, they likely need to take 2 losses before we take another.
- 3 North Carolina vs 7) Duke - Cheer for UNC. We pass Duke if UNC wins, slim chance we pass both with a UNC win (considering the Heels' loss) but more likely we go past Duke and get closer to UNC.
- 4 Houston at 8) Kansas - We would pass Kansas with a Houston loss, but if the goal is to get to #1, better to get both closer since the B12 provides plenty of loss opportunties.
- 5 Tennessee at 10) Kentucky - Both lost this week, another loss by Tennessee would guarantee we pass them.
Obviously dependent on winning at Georgetown, but here's a rooting guide for this weekend's games and Marquette trying to get back to #1 for the first time since 1978:I suspect we go past one Wisconsin, one of UNC/Duke, one of Houston/Kansas, and Tennessee. Pretty good chance we're back to top-5 by Monday with a win today. I'd put the ceiling at 4 (unlikely) and the floor at 6 (if Duke and KU win, we might stay behind Houston and UNC as well).
- 1) UConn at St. John's - Cheer for the Johnnies, we won't pass UConn, but it would get them back to the pack.
- 2) Purdue at 6) Wisconsin - Cheer for Bucky, unless it makes you sick. Decent chance we pass Wisconsin regardless with their loss at Nebraska, beating Purdue would get the Boilers back to the pack. Voters may forget Nebraska if Bucky beats Purdue, but if we want to pass Purdue, they likely need to take 2 losses before we take another.
- 3 North Carolina vs 7) Duke - Cheer for UNC. We pass Duke if UNC wins, slim chance we pass both with a UNC win (considering the Heels' loss) but more likely we go past Duke and get closer to UNC.
- 4 Houston at 8) Kansas - We would pass Kansas with a Houston loss, but if the goal is to get to #1, better to get both closer since the B12 provides plenty of loss opportunties.
- 5 Tennessee at 10) Kentucky - Both lost this week, another loss by Tennessee would guarantee we pass them.
I'm lost. Who do we want between Houston and Kansas?
I would say Kansas, which is why they are bolded. We might not pass them, but if we want to eventually get to #1, Houston needs to take losses. Kansas will be easier to pass due to our neutral court win and they're more likely to take a loss in the next two weeks than Houston is.
Thx. Who do you think wis going to win in these games?Student athletes
Thanks for that guide, brew.
Regardless of what UConn does today, I think we'll pass them if we beat them twice and won't pass them if we don't beat them twice. So I'd just as soon as they win today so we get to play them when they're #1.
Definitely rooting for Kansas and Kentucky.
I will be rooting for Madison ... to lose by 25. If Madison does happen to win, I'll take the Purdue loss as a consolation prize. If Madison wins impressively, I think they'll stay ahead of us despite the loss at Nebraska.
Student athletes
Thx. Who do you think wis going to win in these games?
If I were guessing, I'd say UConn, Purdue, UNC, Kansas, and Tennessee. But that's just one person's guess.
I don't know why but I have a feeling St.John's is going to beat UCONN.
Oh god. Last time we started polls on records over our next X number of games, posts about what it’ll take to get to #1, etc. we floundered horribly.
We aren’t getting to number 1 this year. Purdue has the head to head win, the far better resume, and the back to back National Player of the Year on its team. They aren’t losing enough games for us to pass them, and we aren’t going undefeated the rest of the year. We’re a good team. We have an outside shot at a 1 seed. If you’re rooting to be ranked #1, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
Thx. Who do you think wis going to win in these games?You just need to focus on MU beating Gtown...this lack of focus is dangerous.
That poll was absolutely directly related to the team's poor play.
[/b]=topic=29770.msg1618562#msg1618562 date=1706973358]rooting for Badger roadkill? We are aligned.
Thanks for that guide, brew.
Regardless of what UConn does today, I think we'll pass them if we beat them twice and won't pass them if we don't beat them twice. So I'd just as soon as they win today so we get to play them when they're #1.
Definitely rooting for Kansas and Kentucky.
I will be rooting for Madison ... to lose by 25. If Madison does happen to win, I'll take the Purdue loss as a consolation prize. If Madison wins impressively, I think they'll stay ahead of us despite the loss at Nebraska.
rooting for Badger roadkill? We are aligned.
Oh god. Last time we started polls on records over our next X number of games, posts about what it’ll take to get to #1, etc. we floundered horribly.
Forget the fact that the same "how do we do in the next 5 games" polls were done all of last year too when we absolutely ravaged through the league.
We aren’t getting to number 1 this year.
I’m cheering for Purdue over Wisconsin for tournament seeding purposes. Wisconsin is near us while there is no way we pass Purdue.
If I were guessing, I'd say UConn, Purdue, UNC, Kansas, and Tennessee. But that's just one person's guess.
If I were guessing, I'd say UConn, Purdue, UNC, Kansas, and Tennessee. But that's just one person's guess.
So has anyone totaled up the wins and losses for top 15 teams for the week?14-12, with 2 games yet to be played today.
We'll pass Duke and Madison and be #7 at worst IMHO. The other teams that went 1-1 this week - UNC, Houston and Tennessee - probably will stay ahead of us, right?
1. UConn
2. Purdue
3. Kansas
4. UNC
5. Houston
6. Tennessee
7. Marquette
We'll pass Duke and Madison and be #7 at worst IMHO. The other teams that went 1-1 this week - UNC, Houston and Tennessee - probably will stay ahead of us, right?
1. UConn
2. Purdue
3. Kansas
4. UNC
5. Houston
6. Tennessee
7. Marquette
I wouldnt be surprised if Purdue jumped to #1.
That seems right to me…….Houston not going to drop too.much falling at Kansas…..UNC gets a nice win over Duke to mitigate their loss……ditto for Tennessee at Kentucky.
UNC lost to G.Tech and Tenn lost on their home floor to South C. I'm not saying it will happen but #5 is definitely in play.
I wouldnt be surprised if Purdue jumped to #1.I'd be very surprised. They got very fortunate with the refs to beat NU at home in OT. If Purdue was only given a 35 FT advantage they would have lost.
I'd be very surprised. They got very fortunate with the refs to beat NU at home in OT. If Purdue was only given a 35 FT advantage they would have lost.Many voters dont look that deep. They will see a road win at #6. UConn didnt beat a ranked team this week.
Many voters dont look that deep. They will see a road win at #6. UConn didnt beat a ranked team this week.
UNC lost to G.Tech and Tenn lost on their home floor to South C. I'm not saying it will happen but #5 is definitely in play.
Good job Brew.
I don't think we'll see 7 until after SJ....and top 4 if we only lose 1more. It's possible. We have a path.
At worst we are #7 tomorrow. Duke and Wisky will not be ahead of us.
I think we will be 6. Voters like to punish teams that lose and reward teams that win. While South Carolina isn't bad, it's still a home loss. If we're not 6, we're 7. I don't see any way we're in the top 5 or outside the top 7
1. UConn
2. Purdue
3. Kansas
4. Houston
5. North Carolina
6. Marquette
7. Tennessee
8. Arizona
9. Duke
10. Illinois
11. Auburn
12. Wisconsin
13. Iowa State
14. Baylor
15. Alabama
16. Creighton
17. South Carolina
18. Kentucky
19. FAU
20. Dayton
21. BYU
22. Utah State
23. Texas Tech
24. New Mexico
25. Texas
I think Wisconsin falls a little further than 12. They lost twice though one was to Purdue but on their home floor. I have them at 14. Their saving grace might be that 3 of the 10-15 teams also lost. I think UNC is at 4 as they lost but then beat Duke. Houston got smoked. I think MU lands at 7 since Tennessee won at @UK.
Houston is finding out what it’s like to play in a real conference
Houston is still number 1 at KenPom by a wide margin.
Houston is still number 1 at KenPom by a wide margin.
They played one of the easiest non-conference schedules of the top 10 teams. They are 1-3 against the top teams in the Big 12 and 2-3 against the current top 25.
What an oddballotperson.
https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/status/1754415080043884814
Seth Davis moved MU down from 8 to 9 this week.
Knocked Wisconsin down a whole 1 spot from 6 to 7 as a penalty for their 0-2 week.
What an odd ballot.
UNC staying at #3 is a complete joke.They lost 70 points. Problem is, everyone else around them lost, as well. Who would you put there?
They lost 70 points. Problem is, everyone else around them lost, as well. Who would you put there?
He ignores results of games and does his ballot primarily for shock value and to generate clicks. He had Michigan state ranked like #15 when they were 5-5.
7 in AP
7 in AP and 7 in USA Today Coaches Poll
7 and 7 you say? Where have I seen those two digits before?
Would be tough to get to #5 by the time we play UConn. Kansas has a tough week but Tennessee and Houston don't. Beat SJU and we'll still have a top 10 matchup on the 17th.
Not sure about that. Tennessee, Houston, and UNC all have road games at unranked teams next Saturday, and all three opponents are fighting for NCAA bids. Top-10 teams have been historically bad in those games this year. And Kansas has one of those tonight along with Baylor at home Saturday. There are some landmines out there. Just need to beat SJU and Butler to set up that UConn game.
Just need to beat SJU and Butler to set up that UConn game.
Yep, those don't figure to be cakewalks, especially the game in Indy.That's why you join a conference like the Big East.
I'm really surprised that UNC wasn't punished more than that. Losing to Georgia Tech is a brutal loss and beating Duke at home isn't that big of a redeemer IMHO. I thought Kansas would jump them and I thought Houston would stay put at 4. I didn't think voters would punish Houston for losing at Kansas.Agree with this.
I'm also surprised by the lack of love for Texas. I thought winning at TCU and taking Houston to OT would have gotten them enough love for the 25 spot. Instead, they only picked up 12 votes from last week.
My only question would be how Gonzaga got any votes at all.
Kansas.No way Kansas should be ranked ahead of MU. But hey, IK,IK. It's Kansas, it's Kansas.
No way Kansas should be ranked ahead of MU. But hey, IK,IK. It's Kansas, it's Kansas.
Shaka must not be feeding Rothstein adequate insider info
He’s got us goddamn 11th
I have this odd feeling that Shaka isn't the biggest fan of Rothstein. I've listened to his pod a long time now, and not once has he been on. I believe Wojo was on once back in the day.
FWIW also not a big fan of Rothstein, there's a reason he's blocked me on twitter since 2014.
#7 seems pretty fair for Marquette.
A little surprised UNC is ahead of Kansas, but only a little.
Here are this week's games for those ranked ahead of us:
UConn - Butler, @Georgetown
Purdue - Indiana
UNC - Clemson, @Miami
Kansas - @KState, Baylor
Houston - OklaSt, @Cinci
Tenn - LSU, @TAMU
Most likely to lose a game ... KU and/or Tenn? Borderline impossible for any of these teams to have a winless week.
KState wins! And, I hate Bill Self.
Would you call any of the Jayhawks players “dung”?No, but you would. That is the top of your vocabulary
No, but you would. That is the top of your vocabulary
Bill Self is dung. Shaka agrees with this assessment.
All of us obviously hope that the victory over Kansas doesn't turn out to be this season's top highlight ... but that sure was freakin' sweet, as was the Shaka-vs-Self aftermath.
It was sweet but had we made some more wide open shots we could have easily won that game by 25+. That was a pure ass-kicking.
If they're only gonna shoot 40% from 3 for part of the year, I'm glad they waited til more towards the end.Dung
Nice win tonight v STJ but nothin happening that will move the needle. 7 again.Tennessee down 13 at TAMU
Nice win tonight v STJ but nothin happening that will move the needle. 7 again.
Also, UNC lost early in the week. Not sure how bad that will hurt them. They didn't exactly dominate Miami either.
Kansas lost to KSU as well, then snuck by Baylor. Probably not enough to move past either of them but the votes will tighten.not so fast my friend. I think we leap Kansas. UConn, Purdue, Houston, Marquette, UNC is my top 5.
Nice win tonight v STJ but nothin happening that will move the needle. 7 again.
#5 if Tennessee wins, #4 if they lose. Anything less is robbery.
Hi, I’m no longer warriors, Nice win tonight v STJ but nothin happening that will move the needle. 7 again.
UNC is dropping at least 4 spots. And if A&M beats Tenn? MU will be #5.
I would really like to know the love affair with Arizona. They beat literally no one and play in the worst conference in basketball
I don’t care much about the voted polls that get all of the publicity, but pay much more attention to the NCAA seed lists issued by respected bracketologists.NC like Duke always gets the ACC bias.
I’m looking forward to Saturday’s release by the NCAA to see if the bracketologists have been accurately anticipating the NCAA’s evaluation of the top teams.
But, to say that Arizona hasn’t beaten anyone is refuted by the fact that they are 7-3 in quad one games.
Only UConn and Purdue with 8 have more Quad 1 wins, and Houston is the only other team with 7. That is a big reason why those teams are considered the current front runners for the 1 seeds.
The only teams with 6 are Kansas, North Carolina, and Wisconsin, which explains why the Badgers are still very comfortably in the NCAA field despite their recent losing streak (probably around a 5 seed).
Unlike the voted polls, NCAA selections do not have a significant recency bias.
All that being said, I expect MU to be either 6 or 7 in the AP and Coaches polls behind UConn, Purdue, Houston, Arizona, Notth Carolina, and maybe Kansas (whose loss to KSU is muted by their recent wins over Houston and Baylor).
I don’t think NC deserves to be rated that high, but I don’t see them falling all the way from 3 to out of the top 5. IMHO they were overrated in those polls at 3, and that isn’t likely to be corrected because of one Monday loss.
I don’t care much about the voted polls that get all of the publicity, but pay much more attention to the NCAA seed lists issued by respected bracketologists.
I’m looking forward to Saturday’s release by the NCAA to see if the bracketologists have been accurately anticipating the NCAA’s evaluation of the top teams.
But, to say that Arizona hasn’t beaten anyone is refuted by the fact that they are 7-3 in quad one games.
Only UConn and Purdue with 8 have more Quad 1 wins, and Houston is the only other team with 7. That is a big reason why those teams are considered the current front runners for the 1 seeds.
The only teams with 6 are Kansas, North Carolina, and Wisconsin, which explains why the Badgers are still very comfortably in the NCAA field despite their recent losing streak (probably around a 5 seed).
Unlike the voted polls, NCAA selections do not have a significant recency bias.
All that being said, I expect MU to be either 6 or 7 in the AP and Coaches polls behind UConn, Purdue, Houston, Arizona, Notth Carolina, and maybe Kansas (whose loss to KSU is muted by their recent wins over Houston and Baylor).
I don’t think NC deserves to be rated that high, but I don’t see them falling all the way from 3 to out of the top 5. IMHO they were overrated in those polls at 3, and that isn’t likely to be corrected because of one Monday loss.
NC like Duke always gets the ACC bias.
NC like Duke always gets the ACC bias.
We should definitely be ahead of UNC and KU. They both now have 5 losses. UNC has lost 2 of its last 4 including to an unranked team at home. KU's road loss not as bad, but we've won 7 straight. And if we're 5/6 you'd have to think the head-to-head of 2 5-loss teams would matter for pollsters.
Heckuva game from Jop, Gold and Mitchell yesterday. Surprised Shaka keeps playing them
I think all of the blue bloods like Kansas, Arizona, Kentucky, et al get preferential treatment from voters.Agreed.
Seems like the wrong thread for these words of wisdom.
Those 3 players have kept us from number 1 because Shaka played them in losses
He really should be giving the walk-ons more playing time.
I like what I’ve seen out of Jonah Lucas
Agreed.
Arizona is weird. By an reasonable definition, Arizona is not really close to being a blue blood. I suppose if your definition of blue blood has about 15 schools, I'd put AZ there.
Heckuva game from Jop, Gold and Mitchell yesterday. Surprised Shaka keeps playing theman idiot doing idiot things, hey
In this context I’m talking about a team that has been in the top 10-20 for much of the last 10 years and makes the NCAA tournament virtually every year.
Based on your definition is Gonzaga a Blue Blood?
Based on your definition is Gonzaga a Blue Blood?
Yes.
Instead of “Blue Blood” maybe I would call them “traditional powers”.
I haven’t seen a game with Gillen on color for a while.
Does he routinely go “whoa” just about every time someone makes a shot?
He isn't doing it routinely.
In this context I’m talking about a team that has been in the top 10-20 for much of the last 10 years and makes the NCAA tournament virtually every year.Makes sense. Your point was correct.
IU is not / no longer a blue bloodThat's fair. They would have a better argument than UCLA, correct?
CBS has MU at 4 as well.
The bigger question - can MU hold on to the soon to be top five ranking? This could be an 0 - 2 week. We’ll see what these Eagles are made of over the next seven days. It’s quite possibly their biggest test of the season so far. Let’s pass it!
Could also be a 2-0 week. Or a 1-1 week.
I guess that covers it, as sources say there are no ties.
I will sign up for 1 - 1 right now.
No idea how this week will go, but I wouldn’t. MU can win both of these games.
This completely. I fully believe this team can beat anyone anywhere in the country. When we're on, we can compete with anyone else at this level. This team can certainly beat Butler and deliver a reminder to UConn that we are still the champs of this league.
Makes sense. Your point was correct.
My Blue Bloods : UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, UCONN and I guess UCLA. Villanova could replace UCLA or IU.
No idea how this week will go, but I wouldn’t. MU can win both of these games.
MSU has been above Indiana in the pecking order for quite awhile.
24 years since a natty. Sure, they've been good, but they're not blue either.As all bar stool discussions go, there is no absolute right answer. I respect that list. I'll just say that if UCONN isn't a blue blood, then that means the club is closed to any new members.
And when Izzo leaves... I have doubts about their longevity as well.
IMO, the only true destination jobs in MCBB are: Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA. That's the list.
Grammer at 5, up from 7.
24 years since a natty. Sure, they've been good, but they're not blue either.
And when Izzo leaves... I have doubts about their longevity as well.
IMO, the only true destination jobs in MCBB are: Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA. That's the list.
This completely. I fully believe this team can beat anyone anywhere in the country. When we're on, we can compete with anyone else at this level. This team can certainly beat Butler and deliver a reminder to UConn that we are still the champs of this league.
As all bar stool discussions go, there is no absolute right answer. I respect that list. I'll just say that if UCONN isn't a blue blood, then that means the club is closed to any new members.
For me, MSU doesn't even register as even a candidate for blue blood.
IMO, the only true destination jobs in MCBB are: Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA. That's the list.
I'd put UCLA in the same boat as Indiana.
Cuse before the ACC
This completely. I fully believe this team can beat anyone anywhere in the country. When we're on, we can compete with anyone else at this level. This team can certainly beat Butler and deliver a reminder to UConn that we are still the champs of this league.
This completely. I fully believe this team can beat anyone anywhere in the country. When we're on, we can compete with anyone else at this level. This team can certainly beat Butler and deliver a reminder to UConn that we are still the champs of this league.
You’re adopting a much different definition, and that’s fine.
But MSU has been in 6 Final Fours since that championship and has been in the tournament almost every year.
UCLA has gone longer without a title and has been less successful than MSU over the last 25 years.
Rothstein still has us 8
LOL
Totally agree. I fully expect to beat Butler - we are the better team, and I am confident we'll play like the better team, especially after having lost to them at Fiserv. And then, barring some crazy rash of injuries or something, I believe our guys will compete big-time against UConn in a great game.
We'll probably get UConn's best, as well as a hostile crowd ... but when our team is on, we're as good as anybody. And I don't think that's looking through blue-and-gold glasses - we've proven it on the court.
Rothstein still has us 8It has been pointed out by several on this site, that our upward gains have come from the bottom outlier pollsters moving their votes up. So in that context Rothstein moving from 11 to 8 helps our vote total. Now we Need JB Ricks to move up meaningfully from 13
LOL
Up to 4 on ESPN Power Rankings:
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39504897/men-college-basketball-power-rankings-questions-kentucky-wisconsin-uconn-purdue-continue-dominate
82
Pretty good run for TK. Another 16-17 games like that and we will all remember him fondly!!
Yessir ... he's got a chance to be an OK player.Transferring to Moserville?
Too highNo such thing.
How is UW still ranked let alone #20?
How is UW still ranked let alone #20?soft bubble
How is UW still ranked let alone #20?
Play the game the right wayThat's interesting, right? The overall resume includes double digit wins in Q1 and Q2, so I can see their NET ranking holding up (somewhat) but we talk about how voters (A and Coaches) typically look at where a team was last week, then see what they did since then, and vote based on that simplistic recency bias. But, apparently that theory seems flawed too.
4 Ls in a row, yes, but squeaking out a 2 pt win vs Minnesota still holds a lot of weight
3
Brenna Greene, Brice Cherry, Dave Preston, Luca Evans, Rick Bozich, Scott Richey, Shane Mettlen
4
Andrew Quinn, Ben Steele, Bret Bloomquist, Brian Holland, Chris Murray, Dave Borges, Dick Vitale, Jeff Borzello, Jerry Carino, Jon Wilner, Justin Jackson, Kevin Brockway, Mark Berman, Michelle Gardner, Rodd Baxley, Stefan Krajisnik, Stephen Means, Zach Klein
5
Adam Cole, Chad Leistikow, Darnell Dickson, Geoff Grammer, Jeff Neiburg, Justin Martinez, Kevin McNamara, Lauren Walsh, Marcus Fuller, Mia O'Brien, Parth Upadhyaya, Pat Rooney, Todd Golden, Tony Garcia
6
Chandler Mack, David Jablonski, Dylan Sinn, Jay Tust, Jeff Welsch, Kyle Austin, Mark Zeigler, Sheldon Mickles, Steve Greenberg
7
Bob Ballou, Bob Holt, Bruce Pascoe, Donna Ditota, Kate Rogerson, Kellis Robinett, Kevin Sjuts, Nick Alvarez, Steve Hewitt
8
JB Ricks, Jon Rothstein, Seth Davis
9
Dave Reardon
TT, where do you find this breakdown?
Not sure on the logistics that go into it.
But boy Fox should be trying to do their own gameday type situation for this game. With a crew on site rather than studio.
3
Brenna Greene, Brice Cherry, Dave Preston, Luca Evans, Rick Bozich, Scott Richey, Shane Mettlen
4
Andrew Quinn, Ben Steele, Bret Bloomquist, Brian Holland, Chris Murray, Dave Borges, Dick Vitale, Jeff Borzello, Jerry Carino, Jon Wilner, Justin Jackson, Kevin Brockway, Mark Berman, Michelle Gardner, Rodd Baxley, Stefan Krajisnik, Stephen Means, Zach Klein
5
Adam Cole, Chad Leistikow, Darnell Dickson, Geoff Grammer, Jeff Neiburg, Justin Martinez, Kevin McNamara, Lauren Walsh, Marcus Fuller, Mia O'Brien, Parth Upadhyaya, Pat Rooney, Todd Golden, Tony Garcia
6
Chandler Mack, David Jablonski, Dylan Sinn, Jay Tust, Jeff Welsch, Kyle Austin, Mark Zeigler, Sheldon Mickles, Steve Greenberg
7
Bob Ballou, Bob Holt, Bruce Pascoe, Donna Ditota, Kate Rogerson, Kellis Robinett, Kevin Sjuts, Nick Alvarez, Steve Hewitt
8
JB Ricks, Jon Rothstein, Seth Davis
9
Dave Reardon
Further evidence of why Rothstein is a clown. Writes a bunch of tweets fawning all over Shaka and Kolek this week...ranks them lowest of any voter in the nation along with a bitter UNC writer and a guy in Honolulu.
It will be very interesting to see what happens if we do have a 2-0 week. Unless we beat UConn soundly, it's hard to imagine us jumping ahead of them if we're 20-5 and they are 23-3. Purdue is similar, even if they lost at Ohio State on Sunday, would many voters move us ahead? I'm sure we'd slide ahead of Houston on some ballots whether they beat Texas Saturday or not, but we might be at the point where we need the teams ahead of us to lose 2-3 times before we can move up any more.
It will be very interesting to see what happens if we do have a 2-0 week. Unless we beat UConn soundly, it's hard to imagine us jumping ahead of them if we're 20-5 and they are 23-3. Purdue is similar, even if they lost at Ohio State on Sunday, would many voters move us ahead? I'm sure we'd slide ahead of Houston on some ballots whether they beat Texas Saturday or not, but we might be at the point where we need the teams ahead of us to lose 2-3 times before we can move up any more.Agreed. As much as I would love being #1, I don't see any sound logic to be moved ahead of UCONN if we win.
Agreed. As much as I would love being #1, I don't see any sound logic to be moved ahead of UCONN if we win.
Agreed. As much as I would love being #1, I don't see any sound logic to be moved ahead of UCONN if we win.
I think MU would pass UConn next week if they win the next two. Road wins are big and the gap between 1 and 4 is not all that great. Let's get the wins are see what happens.I'm all in favor of it. I just think objectively, if we win, UCONN at 23-3 deserves to be ahead of MU at 20-5. Losing to the #4 team, even at home, shouldn't punish you that bad.
How is UW still ranked let alone #20?Gard knows ball
Agreed. As much as I would love being #1, I don't see any sound logic to be moved ahead of UCONN if we win.When has sound logic ever been involved in the AP poll? If we go 2-0 this week, I'd expect Marquette to be #2 behind Purdue next week, even though Connecticut has a better overall resume. Voters' desire to reward wins and punish losses will outweigh carefully ranking the top 25 teams based on their full body of work.
When has sound logic ever been involved in the AP poll? If we go 2-0 this week, I'd expect Marquette to be #2 behind Purdue next week, even though Connecticut has a better overall resume. Voters' desire to reward wins and punish losses will outweigh carefully ranking the top 25 teams based on their full body of work.
I hope we get to find out.
When has sound logic ever been involved in the AP poll?
When has sound logic ever been involved in the AP poll? If we go 2-0 this week, I'd expect Marquette to be #2 behind Purdue next week, even though Connecticut has a better overall resume. Voters' desire to reward wins and punish losses will outweigh carefully ranking the top 25 teams based on their full body of work.
I hope we get to find out.
I think unless we control the game start to finish, like the Kansas game, we'll stay behind them. Being at their place might swing some voters, but I'm sure most would keep them ahead of us.
I think MU would pass UConn next week if they win the next two. Road wins are big and the gap between 1 and 4 is not all that great. Let's get the wins are see what happens.
This is probably correct, regardless of the logic or lack thereof behind it ;DAgain, Exhibit A - the BADgers
If we go 2-0 this week, Rothstein will move us from 8 to 7. 👀
Muggsy
I feel very good about getting the win at Butler and realistic about UConn. Saturday is big game for both teams and home court is a major advantage.
Last year they went to X in mid January and this game has a similar feel to me, only it is a bigger game due to national rankings. Going into X I wanted them to prove they could a win a big game on the road and they passed that test, even in a loss. Imo, that was a turning point game that they built off for the rest of the season.
On Saturday I want them to have a chance to win that game and see what happens. If my belief that this team is at a much higher level than last year, they should have a chance to win it.
To win on Saturday everyone needs to be contributors, regardless of their role. That said, TK and Oso have to play like AA’s to win in all likelihood. I give them a 30% chance of winning Saturday and hoping that with 5 minutes to go the odds are better than that.
Muggsy
I feel very good about getting the win at Butler and realistic about UConn. Saturday is big game for both teams and home court is a major advantage.
Last year they went to X in mid January and this game has a similar feel to me, only it is a bigger game due to national rankings. Going into X I wanted them to prove they could a win a big game on the road and they passed that test, even in a loss. Imo, that was a turning point game that they built off for the rest of the season.
On Saturday I want them to have a chance to win that game and see what happens. If my belief that this team is at a much higher level than last year, they should have a chance to win it.
To win on Saturday everyone needs to be contributors, regardless of their role. That said, TK and Oso have to play like AA’s to win in all likelihood. I give them a 30% chance of winning Saturday and hoping that with 5 minutes to go the odds are better than that.
Kam needs to return too.
Walking through the airport in FtMeyers today. Wearing MU swag. I see Michigan Wolverines guy…ok, he’s got football. I see Illinois Fighting Illinois guy. I see Michigan State guy. I see Penn State guy. I see Duke guy. I see a hottie in Kentucky garb. Sorry friends…We Are Marquette!…#4 and goin’ uptown from here. Come get some!I have been seeing MU swag all year in ATL on connections
No question about it. We're really difficult to guard when he's on his game.
Would you put Stevie on Newton, Castle, or Spencer? Newton?
I think Spencer is the one you have to contain, but I’ll bet it’s Newton.
Would you put Stevie on Newton, Castle, or Spencer? Newton?
IMHO, Stevie on Newton to try and disrupt the offense. Chase on Spencer and then let a Kam take Castle since he is not the best at shooting 3s - and offer Kam help when needed. Obviously all this could change if one of UConn's shooters gets hot from deep.You have TK on the bench...? Or is he guarding 6'8" Alex Karaban?
You have TK on the bench...? Or is he guarding 6'8" Alex Karaban?
I have been seeing MU swag all year in ATL on connections
Won't be and shouldn't be even if we beat UCONN.
But it'd be a hell of a win and I hope we find out.
Yeah no reason we'd deserve to jump Purdue without them losing at least once more. Same with Houston. Maybe they'd use recency bias to put UConn below us but I think the total W & L would keep them ahead for most voters
I think we could jump Houston.Quite possible. I don't understand the Houston doubters. They look legit to me. Maybe voters think they are still in the AAC.
People are pretty divided on them
I think we drop out of the top ten given the severity of the loss. Every highlight mentioned the largest beating by a top 5 conference matchup
Would be harsh. You’d have to make a case for 7 teams to pass us.
#6 Kansas lost by 29 to unranked TTU
#7 UNC lost to a horrible Syracuse
#11 South Carolina lost twice. One by 40
#13 Auburn lost a home game
You might be right, but it’d be pretty harsh for one bad game considering they had won 8 in a row.
13
No lower than 10. Lunardi says we stay on the 2-line, so maybe no lower than 8, but I’ll go with 10….but quite possibly back to 4-ish by the time we get another colonoscopy from UConn.
69420
42069 is a better # IMO
I get that it's something I struggle with but everyone needs to chillax/calm down. We will be fine and are still one of the best teams in the USA.
I love when you’re the voice of calm and of reason, Muggs!
13
Once again, wrongYou do know he is dead
Once again, wrong
5I like your 5 but who do we jump? I don’t think UConn goes lower than 4. I’m thinking no change…7.
I like your 5 but who do we jump? I don’t think UConn goes lower than 4. I’m thinking no change…7.
Iowa St and Arizona. We were almost 6 last week so although Iowa st lost to Houston it should be enough to pass them. Arizona lost a home game but they may still be ahead of us. We’ll see I guess.I forgot about AZ losing to Washington State and Iowa St losing at Houston. I request a change to a 5! Yeah!!
Veinte y Seis
1. Houston
2. UConn
3. Purdue
4. Tennessee
5. Marquette
6. Arizona
7. Kansas
8. North Carolina
9. Iowa State
10. Duke
11. Auburn
12. Creighton
13. Saint Mary's
14. Alabama
15. Illinois
16. Kentucky
17. Baylor
18. South Carolina
19. Washington State
20. San Diego State
21. Dayton
22. Gonzaga
23. Wisconsin
24. Florida
25. Utah State
I think USF will sneak into the T-25.
Iowa St and Arizona. We were almost 6 last week so although Iowa st lost to Houston it should be enough to pass them. Arizona lost a home game but they may still be ahead of us. We’ll see I guess.
We will be 5 again because of the two teams ahead of us losing. That means we will be #5 going into Creighton on Saturday, win that and we will have another top 5 showdown with Uconn but at home this time. We have four games to win out to clinch the last 1 seed. IMO you will never convince me that if we win the final 4 games that N.Carolina/Tennesee/ Arizona have better resumes. I would also expect our net to jump to 6-7 range if we win out. Of course if Tennessee wins out they would be ahead of us but given their schedule I assume they go 2-2
We will be 5 again because of the two teams ahead of us losing. That means we will be #5 going into Creighton on Saturday, win that and we will have another top 5 showdown with Uconn but at home this time. We have four games to win out to clinch the last 1 seed. IMO you will never convince me that if we win the final 4 games that N.Carolina/Tennesee/ Arizona have better resumes. I would also expect our net to jump to 6-7 range if we win out. Of course if Tennessee wins out they would be ahead of us but given their schedule I assume they go 2-2
Marquette, Tennessee, and Kansas all have tough finishes. Any of these teams winning out probably get a 1 seed because odds are the others get a loss or two.
North Carolina has an easier finish. At Duke is the only big hurdle, but that means any other stumble really hurts. But if UNC wins out, chances are the other teams all picked up a loss or two. Then UNC is the last one seed.
Arizona could win out. If all of the other 1 seed contenders lose at least once, then Arizona gets a 1 seed. But any loss would be very damaging.
If none of these teams win out, the last 1 seed will be wide open. Conference tournament results will also be a factor.
Conference tournament results often don’t matter based on history. Brew had a piece about a few years ago. Maybe it matters this year, but I wouldn’t factor it in too heavily
I doubt we are jumping AZ. 6 is the right answer.
Conference tournament results often don’t matter based on history. Brew had a piece about a few years ago. Maybe it matters this year, but I wouldn’t factor it in too heavily
I would, especially this year.
Re: brew, I think he’s GENERALLY right, but more recently.. 3/11/23, MU is in the finals and brew again went to this well.. saying while MU fans hope that winning gets to them to the 2, he’s pessimistic ( already voted on, re-scrubbing unlikely, etc.). So, kept them on the 3.
However, MU was a 2 seed.
It mattered.
Conference tournament results often don’t matter based on history. Brew had a piece about a few years ago. Maybe it matters this year, but I wouldn’t factor it in too heavily
On the bubble, it doesn't. But I do think Marquette's placement last year and UNC's spot in the reveal this year show they are using those to differentiate on the top seed lines. They say conference standings don't matter, but I'm becoming convinced conference championships (or tourney championships) do.
I'm guessing they end up just missing the cut this time. I think Utah State knocking off San Diego State is a lot more impressive than beating UTSA and SMU
I get that the computers hate this team and they haven't had a tough schedule but they've lost one game since Dec 2nd. They've won 19 of their last 20. Winning isn't easy, even in the AAC. That coach deserves a lot of credit. I just think they'll finally be rewarded and get into the polls.FWIW, on the radio this morning they discussed USF and they all really like the team but agreed they are out unless they win the AAC tourney.
How duz ND rank, hey?Same as Badgers. Nada.
Think it’s funny how most analysts 2 weeks ago were very boldly saying “It is UCONN and Purdue, then everyone else”. Last week it was “UCONN, then everyone else”. Now neither team is ranked number one after getting losing road games. It’s almost like none of that was the case to begin with. Lot of parity.
Think it’s funny how most analysts 2 weeks ago were very boldly saying “It is UCONN and Purdue, then everyone else”. Last week it was “UCONN, then everyone else”. Now neither team is ranked number one after getting losing road games. It’s almost like none of that was the case to begin with. Lot of parity.
#5 in the Coaches Poll(https://media.tenor.com/AiM_diDWFToAAAAM/you-like-me-famous.gif)
I get that the computers hate this team and they haven't had a tough schedule but they've lost one game since Dec 2nd. They've won 19 of their last 20. Winning isn't easy, even in the AAC. That coach deserves a lot of credit. I just think they'll finally be rewarded and get into the polls.
So we ended up being both right. Utah State got ranked above South Florida, but South Florida snuck in at #25. I was pleasantly surprised that the voters dropped Wisconsin from 88 votes last week to 42 this week. Their only game was beating Maryland by 4 which was a bad result, but I thought they would move up just because everyone else around them lost. Voters may be smarter than I give them credit for!One voter probably mistook them for Arizona
Then again....14-14 Arizona State somehow got 17 votes so maybe not that smart.
One voter probably mistook them for Arizona
So we ended up being both right. Utah State got ranked above South Florida, but South Florida snuck in at #25. I was pleasantly surprised that the voters dropped Wisconsin from 88 votes last week to 42 this week. Their only game was beating Maryland by 4 which was a bad result, but I thought they would move up just because everyone else around them lost. Voters may be smarter than I give them credit for!
Then again....14-14 Arizona State somehow got 17 votes so maybe not that smart.
One voter probably mistook them for ArizonaOr thought they were voting for Danny Hurley?
They shouldn't have been excluding Houston...but there is a clear divide between Houston, UConn, and Purdue and the rest of the field. Doesn't mean they're unbeatable but they've separated themselves and will need to completely fall apart to not be the top 3 1 seeds come selection Sunday.
Each of them has three losses. No other P6 team has less than 6 losses. They are literally three wins ahead of every P6 team.
It's really obvious when you look just at straight-up records. The gap between those three and the rest of the field is WIDE.
24-3 (Houston)
25-3 (Uconn)
25-3 (Purdue)
21-6 (literally every team from 4 to 11)
20-8 (Creighton)
At the end of the day, if we win out in the regular season we will be the fourth 1 seed, which is really all you can ask for if you're a Marquette fan at the end of February.
At the end of the day, if we win out in the regular season we will be the fourth 1 seed, which is really all you can ask for if you're a Marquette fan at the end of February.
Just win out. Quality wins against Creighton and UConn will speak volumes.Yo chili
Any normal year 6 losses would never have you in contention for a 1 seed unless you played in the top ranked conferecnce similar to the 2011 Big East. But yes there is quite a dropp off. Doesn't mean those 3 are safe tho come tournament time.False.
False.
Since 2012, only 1 year did not have a 1-seed with 6+ losses.
Since 2016, every year has had at least one 1-seed with 6- losses.
At the end of the season, yes. With two weeks plus conference tournaments? No. Looking back, on the morning of February 27...Fair. But it looks like you agree that "any normal year" and "never" are gross overstatements, especially when he said "in contention" which would not necessitate actually receiving a 1-seed.It's more common of late, but generally speaking, in the past 12 seasons, only 4 eventual 1-seeds (8.3%) in 3 seasons (25%) had 6 losses at this point of the season. It's not common to have this many teams with 6 losses in play for a 1-seed at this point of the season.
- 2012: Michigan State had 5 losses
- 2013: Indiana had 4 losses
- 2014: Virginia had 5 losses
- 2015: No 1-seed had 6+ losses
- 2016: UVA and Oregon did both have 6 losses at this point
- 2017: UNC had 5 losses
- 2018: Kansas had 6 losses
- 2019: UNC had 5 losses
- 2020: No Tournament, but no projected 1-seed would've had 6 losses
- 2021: Illinois had 6 losses
- 2022: Baylor had 5 losses
- 2023: Kansas had 5 losses
A long time ago I said we could tolerate only 1 more loss to get a 1 seed (that happened at UCONN).
we'll be a three seed if we lose to CR and UC and don't make the BET final.
Everything else is 2-seed... Providing all other games are wins of course.
Final thought, It does depend on how others play but I got to believe some other 6-loss will play well down the stretch.
I know that worst 1 vs best 2 is nominally important but it would be nice.
we'll be a three seed if we lose to CR and UC and don't make the BET final.
Final thought, It does depend on how others play
I'm not sure how much what others do matter for the 1-seed if we win out. As it stands right now they'd get 6 more Q1 wins in @xavier, UConn, @ Creighton, @ StJ (likely 7-10 team winner), neutral creighton and neutral UConn. They'd be sitting 12-5 in Q1 with a net in the top ten. Easier said than done, and i haven't crunched the numbers fully, but I don't think Zona or UNC would even have the opportunity for that many Q1. Gotta earn it on the court either way.
I'm not sure how much what others do matter for the 1-seed if we win out. As it stands right now they'd get 6 more Q1 wins in @xavier, UConn, @ Creighton, @ StJ (likely 7-10 team winner), neutral creighton and neutral UConn. They'd be sitting 12-5 in Q1 with a net in the top ten. Easier said than done, and i haven't crunched the numbers fully, but I don't think Zona or UNC would even have the opportunity for that many Q1. Gotta earn it on the court either way.
We’re also very close to adding 2 more Q1 wins of Nova home and Texas.
I just love it that we have a team and coach where we are concerned with our 2 seed and how to potentially get to a 1 vs being on the bubble and worrying about how we make the tourney!!
I just love it that we have a team and coach where we are concerned with our 2 seed and how to potentially get to a 1 vs being on the bubble and worrying about how we make the tourney!!
Love this team and heading up to Milwaukee to watch them throttle Providence tonight.
I just love it that we have a team and coach where we are concerned with our 2 seed and how to potentially get to a 1 vs being on the bubble and worrying about how we make the tourney!!
Love this team and heading up to Milwaukee to watch them throttle Providence tonight.
Amen. Three years ago today MU was fresh off a loss to UConn the previous day and 2-7 in the preceding nine Big East games (including a home loss to DePaul). MU would avenge that loss to DePaul and beat Xavier in Senior Day before bowing out to Georgetown in the first round of the Big East tournament to end the season.
And now we've got fans -- including myself -- who are a little disappointed by the thought of a 2 seed (for a second consecutive year) and a little disappointed with a #5 national ranking. Faced with success that was damn near unimaginable just three years ago, expectations are so high that there is a low-key feeling that this team is under achieving. Holy sh*t, times have changed.
I don't see a big move with CR loss. seed same ranking TBA but with KU loss , AZ win , and others holding serve, maybe 8.
I am hoping that most of the voters will know that our two best players were out and that we held Creighton to basically even for 36 minutes, and take that into consideration when they vote.
I am hoping that most of the voters will know that our two best players were out and that we held Creighton to basically even for 36 minutes, and take that into consideration when they vote.
I doubt that they will do that, but "I am hoping" also. I think the voters will mostly look at the final score and knock us down. Considering other factors (beyond road/home win/loss) is probably not something they do.
26Just stop bro
26
You will be able to tell who watched the game and who just saw the final.
Fanta has us at 9, Seth Davis at 8 - 1 behind Creighton. 🙄
Why?
Did UCONN drop 4 spots when they got pummeled in Omaha?
Did UCONN drop 4 spots when they got pummeled in Omaha?
Fanta’s vote doesn’t matter. Seth Davis dropped us two spots. He also had Michigan State on his “almost famous” list despite losing 3 in a row. I think we’ll get a fair rank tomorrow. I think it will be 6 but Iowa State and UNC are right there also. Sucks but dropping a us a bit cause Kolek is hurt is reasonable.
Did UCONN drop 4 spots when they got pummeled in Omaha?
Absurd.agreed. MU is better than CU…but besides my personal opinion of Creighton that means zip, I don’t see MU dropping lower than 8.
Just stop bro26 bro
26 bro
WOW, I thought our 3 spot drop was bad for a road loss at then #12 Creighton without our 2 best guys.
Kansas dropped 7 spots for losing at then #15 Baylor by 8 points! In March no less, with 29 games in the books!
MU has gotten plenty of respect from the voters this season. That is a sign of a strong program.
MU has gotten plenty of respect from the voters this season. That is a sign of a strong program.
Yep. And I thought this week's results would be particularly interesting to see given all that transpired.
I'm more than willing to rip clueless voters out there - and there are always some - but I'll also give credit for what they collectively have done this season, at least as far as Marquette is concerned.
Clueless voter aka as JB Ricks
Duke at 7 is funny.
Well then prepare to frown, because Duke is #9.Ooops. Was quickly scanning and thought TAMU's list was the actual rankings. My bad.
Ooops. Was quickly scanning and thought TAMU's list was the actual rankings. My bad.
It will be a bummer to see us ranked behind Creighton, as we are the better team when healthy - and were darn close to being the better team the last time we played them, even without Kolek and Oso - but that's life in the big city.
TAMU, brew, others ... could they get Indy over Marquette?
On bracketmatrix, we're holding onto the last 2 seed, followed by Baylor, Creighton, Duke and Kansas. A lot more 3s than a couple weeks ago, but still nary a 4.
Creighton definitely MIGHT get the spot in Indy over MU. IMHO the resumes are competitively close now and what happens in the BET could tip the balance, especially if they play each other again.
I think the results over the weekend with MU winning and several of the competitors for the 2 and 3 seeds losing significantly reduced the chances of MU dropping to a 4.
It will be a bummer to see us ranked behind Creighton, as we are the better team when healthy - and were darn close to being the better team the last time we played them, even without Kolek and Oso - but that's life in the big city.
TAMU, brew, others ... could they get Indy over Marquette?
On bracketmatrix, we're holding onto the last 2 seed, followed by Baylor, Creighton, Duke and Kansas. A lot more 3s than a couple weeks ago, but still nary a 4.
Another angle on the Indianapolis issue is that Memphis is about the same distance from Omaha as Indianapolis.
So, if Creighton was just ahead of MU, and spots in both places were still open, they could put Creighton in Memphis and MU in Indy.
It is very close from where I have Marquette (7) all the way down to the top half of the 4-line Kansas (14). I think this Championship Week will be important for the protected seeds because it's very tight. If Marquette gets to the Big East Final, I think a 2-seed is assured. If Creighton gets there over us, especially if Kolek is healthy, I think we could drop to a 3-seed. I have a more detailed conference by conference rooting guide posted today and am planning to join Scrambled Eggs this week to discuss all things Marquette bracket related.
10 in AP too
What a great country when you can get blown out by USC and fall one spot. Oh.. okay.
What a great country when you can get blown out by USC and fall one spot. Oh.. okay.
I am assuming Creighton and MU will end up playing each other. I think Creighton has a much more physically tougher game against Providence than MU has against Villanova. Hopefully, this is MU's advantage in this game, if it happens.
Who cares what we are ranked.
Nova plays poorly for long stretches far too often this year for me to fear them.
Correct. Nova has given up more runs of 10+ points than anyone in the P6 conferences.
Neptune needs to use his timeouts betterNeptune has sunk his team
That's an interesting stat - who tracks that?
Pretty sure that's an Evan Miya joint, the kill shot.
Neptune has sunk his team
10
Until the next poll in fall.
Is there any chance JTY will be ready by November?My guess is he might be cleared to train again. However, I doubt if he would be 100 percent .
Is there any chance JTY will be ready by November?
From everything I've heard, no. Probably not close.
Is there any chance JTY will be ready by November?