How concerning is this?

[Billy Hoyle]

Everybody and their uncle wants full pay students. Its a great strategy but not an easy one.

One way colleges are achieving that strategy is recruiting international students, particularly from Asia. My buddy recruits for a private college and makes multiple trips to China, Hong Kong, South Korea India, and Japan yearly and just recently hit up Indonesia to recruit.  These kids are full or nearly full pay, as international students don’t get the same scholarships as domestic kids and have to show the financial resources to get a visa. Certainly a place MU could up their game.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Many of those schools are here in Calif, and I am not sure I would qualify them a success.  What is your criteria?  Keep in mind the ability for Calif residents to attend the UC system isn’t what it used to be with the schools bringing in so many out of state and intl.  Very difficult to gain acceptance.  Cal State system is a hodge podge of very good to mediocre schools and everything in between.  In some ways the Calif schools mentioned above have benefited from the two California public systems as alternatives in a state that is not really like any other (both in good and bad ways).  I’d be curious why you call some of them successful....what criteria?

Why don't you tell me which ones you don't qualify as successes? Much less work

[Cheeks]

Why don't you tell me which ones you don't qualify as successes? Much less work

Well you said they were successful, I’m curious why.  My wife is youngest of nine, one sister went to St. Mary’s, one brother to Santa Clara...the others to a whole host of schools in the state.  Their complaints about their alma maters are often similar to our complaints, so I am just curious what made you say that.

Someone from the outside looking at MU might say the campus is building up, usually a sign of progress and investment.  Class sizes are holding steady.  Academics holding steady.  Athletics have had national impacts in a number of sports.  MU doing great.

What makes you say those schools are a success?

[Cheeks]

I said minority as defined/classified by the government today. For example, there are many “Caucasian” minorities. I go total under graduate enrollment. That’s a reasonable 2.3% composition point change per year supported by the demographic projections.  As an aside, there are private colleges in the US who are already there today.

Of course, if MU stays on the Option 1 elite track (or delays the inevitable), you win hands down. MU may be out of business, though.

Here is to the “2030 Back 100 Acre Steer & Beer Summit” in Bozeman!

Total undergraduate enrollment will be minority (by today’s gov’t definition) at MU by 2029?  What are the terms?  I’m in...come to Boise or Bozeman, either way.

I have one graph that is showing MU current undergrad enrollment is 70.9% white....I do not see in ten years the numbers working down to 49.9% white.


https://images.app.goo.gl/MVNuQsKXMZtnmF5J8


Dept of education says MU is 72% white...even higher.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Well you said they were successful, I’m curious why.  My wife is youngest of nine, one sister went to St. Mary’s, one brother to Santa Clara...the others to a whole host of schools in the state.  Their complaints about their alma maters are often similar to our complaints, so I am just curious what made you say that.

Someone from the outside looking at MU might say the campus is building up, usually a sign of progress and investment.  Class sizes are holding steady.  Academics holding steady.  Athletics have had national impacts in a number of sports.  MU doing great.

What makes you say those schools are a success?

Hmmm....those wouldn't be the ones I would have thought you'd pick.  Will respond tomorrow. 

[Cheeks]

Herman

I agree.  I’ve stated in the past that touchpoints matter to some kids and parents.  Kids don’t pick a school based on a college fair appearance or a brochure, but it doesn’t hurt either.  In fact, for some it may peak their interest to learn more.  A picture, especially to kids these days, is worth a lot.

Some of the mail that arrived today for my daughter.  Have to tell you, the 40 page DePaul booklet was the big winner.  Syracuse sent something earlier this week along with USC that also were extremely impressive.  I have to think $7 to $10 in cost which is expensive in the direct mail game.  Yeah yeah, I get it...only a pretty brochure....but I tell you it was so well done compared to the rest that it stood out.  For some people that may make a difference to take the next step, apply and who knows...attend if it works out.  I wish MU would be more visible in certain areas....comes down to money and return.  Hopefully they are A B testing the hell out of their approaches and continuing to see what works and doesn’t....traditional, digital, in person, etc.  Have to our hustle.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Herman

I agree.  I’ve stated in the past that touchpoints matter to some kids and parents.  Kids don’t pick a school based on a college fair appearance or a brochure, but it doesn’t hurt either.  In fact, for some it may peak their interest to learn more.  A picture, especially to kids these days, is worth a lot.

Some of the mail that arrived today for my daughter.  Have to tell you, the 40 page DePaul booklet was the big winner.  Syracuse sent something earlier this week along with USC that also were extremely impressive.  I have to think $7 to $10 in cost which is expensive in the direct mail game.  Yeah yeah, I get it...only a pretty brochure....but I tell you it was so well done compared to the rest that it stood out.  For some people that may make a difference to take the next step, apply and who knows...attend if it works out.  I wish MU would be more visible in certain areas....comes down to money and return.  Hopefully they are A B testing the hell out of their approaches and continuing to see what works and doesn’t....traditional, digital, in person, etc.  Have to our hustle.

Boo!

[Cheeks]

Boo!

Good to have options.  MU needs to fight hard to stand out.  Kids are a lot different today then they were even 10 years ago due to tech.

[forgetful]

One way colleges are achieving that strategy is recruiting international students, particularly from Asia. My buddy recruits for a private college and makes multiple trips to China, Hong Kong, South Korea India, and Japan yearly and just recently hit up Indonesia to recruit.  These kids are full or nearly full pay, as international students don’t get the same scholarships as domestic kids and have to show the financial resources to get a visa. Certainly a place MU could up their game.

In addition to Asia, Middle Eastern students are also highly targeted. Willing and able to pay full freight.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What makes you think Marquette doesn't send out mailings?

[Cheeks]

What makes you think Marquette doesn't send out mailings?

They do, example in the photo.  I think they can step up what they send out, but hopefully their AB testing with that tactic is proving out the ROI of that approach.  College fairs I was really disappointed in their lack of presence.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

They contract with Ruffalo Noel Levitz to handle the strategic direction of their admissions marketing.  Its one of a handful of national level firms that do this.

[Cheeks]

They contract with Ruffalo Noel Levitz to handle the strategic direction of their admissions marketing.  Its one of a handful of national level firms that do this.

Makes sense.  Unfortunately they seem to look a lot like the others, whereas some are breaking through the clutter.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The other question is what do they contract with them to do?  Demographic breakdown?  Marketing development?  Scholarship levels?  Some schools only contract with certain segments.

If what was said by Tiny Tim is correct, and they got numbers in the door but fell short of revenue, that means their entire scholarship program was misallocated.  Too large a discount with some segments and not competitive enough in others. 

From a recruiting standpoint there may not need to be a huge change in their overall direction.  They may need to simply change up some of their tactics.  But I really don't know enough to know.

[Cheeks]

I trust MU is also testing with some other agencies as any good marketing org should do to keep the current one hungry.  Whether that is RNL’s competitors like Think Global or Frontline, or someone else. RNL is the largest in the space which gives financial efficiencies, but can also lead to templtized, cookie cutter approach on the output to achieve those efficiencies.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sometimes schools with contract with multiple firms to handle different aspects of recruiting for the exact reason you mention.  I don't know if MU does that.

[warriorchick]

One way colleges are achieving that strategy is recruiting international students, particularly from Asia. My buddy recruits for a private college and makes multiple trips to China, Hong Kong, South Korea India, and Japan yearly and just recently hit up Indonesia to recruit.  These kids are full or nearly full pay, as international students don’t get the same scholarships as domestic kids and have to show the financial resources to get a visa. Certainly a place MU could up their game.

This is exactly what University of Illinois - Champaign is doing to close their budget gap.  The most recent stats I could find shows they have more international students - about 20% - than they have out-of-state students.  The majority are from Asia, and most of those are the children of wealthy Chinese.

Not that I am recommending that strategy for Marquette.

[Billy Hoyle]

This is exactly what University of Illinois - Champaign is doing to close their budget gap.  The most recent stats I could find shows they have more international students - about 20% - than they have out-of-state students.  The majority are from Asia, and most of those are the children of wealthy Chinese.

Not that I am recommending that strategy for Marquette.

My brother talked about that happening at his at his school. Wealthy Chinese princelings driving luxury sports cars (Lambos, Ferraris) and buying multiple condos for their four years and then at the end of their four years leaving everything behind when they returned to China.

[Dr. Blackheart]

This is exactly what University of Illinois - Champaign is doing to close their budget gap.  The most recent stats I could find shows they have more international students - about 20% - than they have out-of-state students.  The majority are from Asia, and most of those are the children of wealthy Chinese.

Not that I am recommending that strategy for Marquette.

Many smaller private schools are doing this too like St. Leo’s, Beloit College, Pacific, etc.  I don’t know if all are that high in terms of composition...and the international pool is usually closer to full price tuition.

[Cheeks]

My brother talked about that happening at his at his school. Wealthy Chinese princelings driving luxury sports cars (Lambos, Ferraris) and buying multiple condos for their four years and then at the end of their four years leaving everything behind when they returned to China.

UC schools have been inundated by Chinese students the last decade, a lot of money flowing in....caused a bit of a revolt by some Californians because so many slots are being taken up by non-Californians....but that’s where the UC system gets the most cash.

[WarriorFan]

I have no problems at all with MU trimming a little fat.  It might also make those who remain work a little harder to make sure they're not candidates for the next round.  Also, for all of those which were non-tenured teaching positions, it enables those who remain to pick up more classes and make more money themselves thereby improving efficiency.

As for positioning, I was drawn to MU many years ago because they drew for me a straight line through University to getting a good job.  As I recently went through the selection process with my eldest son, I have to say that the ONLY universities that were on his list that did this were DePaul, Santa Clara and Houston.  The remainder were so focused on turning 4 years into 5 (you don't have to have a major in your first year, undecided is OK and all of that faff) that they were entirely unappealing.  MU was also on the border of this "revenue increasing" strategy - encouraging undecided kids to remain undecided so they waste a year and end up staying for 5.  As a parent who's paying for it, I found this to be bad business from ALL the universities that have it as part of their strategy. 

MU as a tuition dependent university needs more attendees, not less, so it needs to contain costs AND have attractive programs.  The biggest focus - and area for improvement - needs to be connections to industry and the path to a good job. 

[Billy Hoyle]

I have to say that the ONLY universities that were on his list that did this were DePaul, Santa Clara and Houston.  The remainder were so focused on turning 4 years into 5 (you don't have to have a major in your first year, undecided is OK and all of that faff) that they were entirely unappealing.  MU was also on the border of this "revenue increasing" strategy - encouraging undecided kids to remain undecided so they waste a year and end up staying for 5.  As a parent who's paying for it, I found this to be bad business from ALL the universities that have it as part of their strategy. 

Is it now normal for kids to start taking major classes as freshmen? My recollection of freshman year was I took core and required classes (Phil, Math, Science, English 001, Spanish, Dr. Naylor’s Western Civ) and no major classes until sophomore year, and I made it out in 4 years easily.

One thing I appreciated about MU is that classes that were prerequisites for other classes were offered every semester. Friends at public schools has their time extended because such classes were not always offered.

[1SE]

I'm in the higher education field and it's not a great sign but Marquette should be fine for the next while at least. We all know there's a higher education bubble and when it pops there is going to be some carnage. Mostly though it should fall on small tuition-dependent, private liberal arts colleges with low endowments (places like Ripon College) and directional state schools (places like UW-Superior).

The most concerning stat I see for Marquette is that it's acceptance rate is really high - like 85%. This is noticeably higher than peer institutions (De Paul, 70%, SLU 65%, Butler 73%, Xavier 69%, Gonzaga 67%) and WAY higher than "aspirational" peers (Villanova 29%, Notre Dame 19%, Georgetown 17%,  Boston College 31%, Duke 11%). Basically it means Marquette really struggles to fill its classes and is very sensitive to any downturn in student demand. I.e. it's not like there is a big pool of students that would come if only MU would lower standards and let them in. As 53% of Marquette's operating revenue comes from student fees a big fall in numbers has a decent hit on keeping the lights on.

That said, the good news for Marquette is that its endowment is relatively strong (670m, ~60k per student) and it isn't super indebted (~230m - so debt/endowment ratio ~34%) and both of those figures are trending in good directions. Also, as some of small liberal arts schools fold up shop supply will decrease and Marquette will pick up some of those applicants. All in all I wouldn't worry about Marquette facing serious problems in the near future but the lack of cushion with student demand is a bit concerning.   

[Boone]

DiscoHippie and 1SE, I completely agree w/you. The only defense MU admissions could possibly have for that depressingly high admissions % is that they're not attracting as large of a pool of applicants as they used to (maybe due to the hoops team's mediocrity not giving us much national exposure). My son grew up loving MU hoops, but last year when applying to schools, he took one look at the acceptance rate and asked "Dad, what's up w/that?" It was a huge red flag. When he dug deeper on Naviance.com he saw that kids from his high school were being accepted to MU with GPAs that hovered around 3.0 and ACTs in the low 20s. He subsequently applied to and was accepted to Madison. Never thought I'd admit this, but I'm glad he's at UW. He'll get a better education at a fraction of the cost (we're WI residents) of attending MU.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The most concerning stat I see for Marquette is that it's acceptance rate is really high - like 85%. This is noticeably higher than peer institutions (De Paul, 70%, SLU 65%, Butler 73%, Xavier 69%, Gonzaga 67%) and WAY higher than "aspirational" peers (Villanova 29%, Notre Dame 19%, Georgetown 17%,  Boston College 31%, Duke 11%). Basically it means Marquette really struggles to fill its classes and is very sensitive to any downturn in student demand.

It is also the sign of more focused recruitment efforts.  Perhaps too focused.  But acceptance rate is largely meaningless as a measure of quality.