South Carolina Brawl Game Anniversary

[Dr. Blackheart]

https://www.facebook.com/100042580727207/posts/pfbid0iFSKdorYsY7J4ptTiAggfmNrV3JVCX8AdhyuSnzRj59SrBnRcAigPSuzEQAaAyHyl/?app=fbl

[NCMUFan]

Thanks for sharing.
Great read.

[Goose]

Dr. B

That is a game that many will never forget. I always enjoy reading this piece every year on FB. Thanks for sharing.

[dgies9156]

I remember that game like it was yesterday. My recollection was that the South Carolina game was a Sunday afternoon, national game. We were living in Nashville and my Mom held up Sunday dinner (which was a big deal in our house) for it.

Our guys were penalized for playing basketball while African American in the Southeast. It was the same foul that got them eliminated in the 1971 NCAA Mideast Regional tournament against Ohio State. After 1971, we weren't taking it anymore!!!!

Kick ass and take no prisoners. The Marquette Way!

[Goose]

dgies


Your memory is spot on. Best part, a nationally televised game back then was a really big deal.

[Dickthedribbler]

Yup late Sunday afternoon start. Wasn't a guy  named Tom Riker one of the South Carolina villians?

[TallTitan34]

Yup late Sunday afternoon start. Wasn't a guy  named Tom Riker one of the South Carolina villians?

[BCHoopster]

Yup late Sunday afternoon start. Wasn't a guy  named Tom Riker one of the South Carolina villians?

Yes, Danny Traylor another big and they had Brian Winters and maybe Kevin Joyce, how good would MU had been of Winters came to MU and Allie went to NC!

[Dr. Blackheart]

This game, the brawl, the players and Coach McGuire lack of a immediate response and remarks were really  the impetus of me falling in love with Marquette Basketball….

--Lloyd Walton

With Al's response, I'd say he was playing for something bigger off the court.

[dgies9156]

--Lloyd Walton

With Al's response, I'd say he was playing for something bigger off the court.

Brother Doc:

Can't speak directly to Dr. Walton, but I believe Al was sending a message to the world: We aint putting up with this crap. Ever again.

Several months before, we were bounced out of the NCAA Mideast Regional tournament in Athens, GA. We were playing Ohio State in a game where every possible foul was called on us. It was more disparate than the Providence game was this year. It was the only game in Dean Meminger's career where he fouled out. We'd go for a shot and out came the whistle. Many of us who saw that game, knowing the fact that the SEC and ACC had only very recently been desegregated, believed that Marquette was whistled for "Engaging in a Basketball Game While African American."

The referees who would have called that game, likely ACC or SEC officials, probably had never seen a team that played Marquette's style of ball or a team that, frankly, looked like Marquette.

Fast forward to January 1972. Marquette was back in the deep south playing a damn near lily white team. The fouls came and so did one too many elbows. The rest, shall we say, was history.

The closest Al ever came to acknowledging this was in the 1977 Midwest Regional, after the Kansas State game. Al went on a tirade and made what I think were cryptic references to these games, to Adolph Rupp (a bigot's bigot) and to the way Marquette was treated in the late 1960s and early 1970s. His bashing of the NCAA that day was quite thorough.

[dgies9156]

Yes, Danny Traylor another big and they had Brian Winters and maybe Kevin Joyce, how good would MU had been of Winters came to MU and Allie went to NC!

About the same. We were damn good in those days and while Winters might have been a slight improvement, Allie was no slouch.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Brother Doc:

Can't speak directly to Dr. Walton, but I believe Al was sending a message to the world: We aint putting up with this crap. Ever again.

Several months before, we were bounced out of the NCAA Mideast Regional tournament in Athens, GA. We were playing Ohio State in a game where every possible foul was called on us. It was more disparate than the Providence game was this year. It was the only game in Dean Meminger's career where he fouled out. We'd go for a shot and out came the whistle. Many of us who saw that game, knowing the fact that the SEC and ACC had only very recently been desegregated, believed that Marquette was whistled for "Engaging in a Basketball Game While African American."

The referees who would have called that game, likely ACC or SEC officials, probably had never seen a team that played Marquette's style of ball or a team that, frankly, looked like Marquette.

Fast forward to January 1972. Marquette was back in the deep south playing a damn near lily white team. The fouls came and so did one too many elbows. The rest, shall we say, was history.

The closest Al ever came to acknowledging this was in the 1977 Midwest Regional, after the Kansas State game. Al went on a tirade and made what I think were cryptic references to these games, to Adolph Rupp (a bigot's bigot) and to the way Marquette was treated in the late 1960s and early 1970s. His bashing of the NCAA that day was quite thorough.

Yep. That is "something bigger off the floor".

[BCHoopster]

About the same. We were damn good in those days and while Winters might have been a slight improvement, Allie was no slouch.

Allie was solid but was not a great shooter!  Winters was a great shooter as we saw as a Buck!

[rocket surgeon]

About the same. We were damn good in those days and while Winters might have been a slight improvement, Allie was no slouch.

   right on dog!  allie played McG-ball.  winters however was really good, i don't think he would have grasped McG-ball.  plus he had grass in his front yard

[Goose]

I am very happy that Allie played at MU, like him a lot as a person and as a player. That said, I'll take Brian Winters every day of the week.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Several months before, we were bounced out of the NCAA Mideast Regional tournament in Athens, GA. We were playing Ohio State in a game where every possible foul was called on us. It was more disparate than the Providence game was this year. It was the only game in Dean Meminger's career where he fouled out. We'd go for a shot and out came the whistle. Many of us who saw that game, knowing the fact that the SEC and ACC had only very recently been desegregated, believed that Marquette was whistled for "Engaging in a Basketball Game While African American."

I've heard this story repeatedly but never watched a replay of the game or looked at the box score. I was curious so I tracked down the box score. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1971-03-18-marquette.html. The foul disparity was 2. The Warriors had 19 fouls, Ohio State had 17 fouls. Ohio State shot 1 more FT than MU. Now that doesn't mean that reffing was unbiased...but I have a hard time with "it was more disparate than the Providence game" when the foul disparity in that game was 13 and the FTA disparity was 30.

[nyg]

Frank McGuire was the SC coach.  He had the pipeline for the NYC/Long Island players at the time, having been from NY and the prior coach at St. John's.  All of below went to USC.

Mike Dunleavy, NYC
John Roche, Brooklyn
Tom Riker, St Dominics, LI
Brian Winters, Archbishop Malloy, Queens
Kevin Joyce, Archbishop Malloy, Queens

Back in the day, they were extremely talented basketball players, especially Roche, one of the best ever in the ACC.

Right after those in early 1970s, there was:

Mitch Kupchack, Brentwood, LI to UNC
Frank Alagia, St. Agnes, LI to St. Johns
Gus Williams, Mt. Vernon to USoCal
Ray Williams, Mt. Vernon to Minnesota
And of course, William's teammate, Earl Tatum.

The NYC leagues and the Long Island CHSSA had some of the best players in the country almost every year.

 

[MU90620]

I've heard this story repeatedly but never watched a replay of the game or looked at the box score. I was curious so I tracked down the box score. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1971-03-18-marquette.html. The foul disparity was 2. The Warriors had 19 fouls, Ohio State had 17 fouls. Ohio State shot 1 more FT than MU. Now that doesn't mean that reffing was unbiased...but I have a hard time with "it was more disparate than the Providence game" when the foul disparity in that game was 13 and the FTA disparity was 30.

I had a pretty good idea this was the case but was too lazy to look it up. Time has turned two charges (the hardest call to make in basketball) into the greatest screw job in the history of sports. Keep on Scooping.

[dgies9156]

I've heard this story repeatedly but never watched a replay of the game or looked at the box score. I was curious so I tracked down the box score. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1971-03-18-marquette.html. The foul disparity was 2. The Warriors had 19 fouls, Ohio State had 17 fouls. Ohio State shot 1 more FT than MU. Now that doesn't mean that reffing was unbiased...but I have a hard time with "it was more disparate than the Providence game" when the foul disparity in that game was 13 and the FTA disparity was 30.

Guys, with all due respect,  I overstated the issue by comparing it to the Providence game. That's what happens when a game was 51 years ago. But, the strong feeling among our guys at the time was that we were abused by the referees. Outside of government, statistics doesn't tell the whole story and they didn't that day.

At the annual basketball banquet afterward, Marquette named the referees in the Ohio State game to its all-opponent team.

We all know from our years of watching our beloved Warriors that a strategic call at just the right moment could be a game-changing decision. On that day, we got screwed (and unlike Al, I rarely say that, then or now!). Al went off in 1977 over technicals he received and noted that he thought the NCAA refs were "brainwashed" about him.

[rocket surgeon]

Guys, with all due respect,  I overstated the issue by comparing it to the Providence game. That's what happens when a game was 51 years ago. But, the strong feeling among our guys at the time was that we were abused by the referees. Outside of government, statistics doesn't tell the whole story and they didn't that day.

At the annual basketball banquet afterward, Marquette named the referees in the Ohio State game to its all-opponent team.

We all know from our years of watching our beloved Warriors that a strategic call at just the right moment could be a game-changing decision. On that day, we got screwed (and unlike Al, I rarely say that, then or now!). Al went off in 1977 over technicals he received and noted that he thought the NCAA refs were "brainwashed" about him.

  absolutely dog and i believe this carried right over and thru the 1978 season, including jerome getting thrown out of the first round game against miami of ohio. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So I guess blaming the refs is a long Marquette tradition, descending from Al himself.

[Scoop Snoop]

So I guess blaming the refs is a long Marquette tradition, descending from Al himself.

Your point? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Guys, with all due respect,  I overstated the issue by comparing it to the Providence game. That's what happens when a game was 51 years ago. But, the strong feeling among our guys at the time was that we were abused by the referees. Outside of government, statistics doesn't tell the whole story and they didn't that day.

At the annual basketball banquet afterward, Marquette named the referees in the Ohio State game to its all-opponent team.

We all know from our years of watching our beloved Warriors that a strategic call at just the right moment could be a game-changing decision. On that day, we got screwed (and unlike Al, I rarely say that, then or now!). Al went off in 1977 over technicals he received and noted that he thought the NCAA refs were "brainwashed" about him.

It's all good Brother Dgies. I'm sure when I'm scooping in 50 years, the distance of Markus' threes will get longer every time I tell the whippersnappers about it

[dgies9156]

  absolutely dog and i believe this carried right over and thru the 1978 season, including jerome getting thrown out of the first round game against miami of ohio.

Brother Rocket:

Not sure I agree. We were playing Miami of Frickin Ohio. There was no excuse for even allowing them into that game. Not then. Not now. NOT EVER!!!

The referees were bad, I agree. But the reason we lost was a loss of composure on our part, which reflects poor coaching. We should have looked outside the family for Al's replacement. We could have had about anyone not named Bob Knight or Dean Smith. Instead, we went with the Phil Bengston of Marquette athletics and we lost our composure when it mattered.

Sadly, we beat ourselves that day. Kirby Smart said it best yesterday after his Bulldogs took out TCU: "There's not a sense of entitlement here." By 1978, there was a sense among many of us that we were entitled -- that the success we had enjoyed for more than a decade was permanent.

We paid the price for that game and the ensuing breakdowns for decades. Hopefully, with Shaka, those horribly sad years are over.

I'll blame the refs for Ohio State in 1971. But don't blame them for our loss of composure.

[rocket surgeon]

Brother Rocket:

Not sure I agree. We were playing Miami of Frickin Ohio. There was no excuse for even allowing them into that game. Not then. Not now. NOT EVER!!!

The referees were bad, I agree. But the reason we lost was a loss of composure on our part, which reflects poor coaching. We should have looked outside the family for Al's replacement. We could have had about anyone not named Bob Knight or Dean Smith. Instead, we went with the Phil Bengston of Marquette athletics and we lost our composure when it mattered.

Sadly, we beat ourselves that day. Kirby Smart said it best yesterday after his Bulldogs took out TCU: "There's not a sense of entitlement here." By 1978, there was a sense among many of us that we were entitled -- that the success we had enjoyed for more than a decade was permanent.

We paid the price for that game and the ensuing breakdowns for decades. Hopefully, with Shaka, those horribly sad years are over.

I'll blame the refs for Ohio State in 1971. But don't blame them for our loss of composure.

   i believe you're right dog, thanks for talking me off the ledge.  i will never forget that game, watching at fv grunts my freshman year and thought this was my time to party down wisco ave till sunrise...damn, well i made up for the party until sunrise (probably too)many times after that.  i do like your version better than mine.  goose and i talk about some of the players we COULD have had and i just can't believe little ole MU was on the cusp of potentially making some real noise for a while...scooter and rodney, alfredrick, et.al