MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on May 01, 2014, 09:14:46 AM
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Marc Marotta’s Mequon McMansion
http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2014/04/28/house-confidential-marc-marottas-mequon-mcmansion/
(http://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/gallery/other-cities/img_1205.jpg)
it is comforting to know the attorney can leave his office in the US Bank Building behind him at the end of a day’s work and head to his custom-built lakefront home in the City of Mequon – yes, that’s in Ozaukee County — where he resides with his wife Kim Marotta, Director of Sustainability at Miller Coors, and their four children.
The first task is probably to find them in this cavernous dwelling, built in 2010. It has 17 rooms, of which 7 are bedrooms. There are 6 full baths and 3 half-baths in the home, along with “5 add’l fixtures”
Oh, we’ll find them later — off to the 5,605 square foot basement, of which 4,926 square feet is a finished rec room. That is a lot of recreating. Above is a first floor with 4,623 square feet of living space, surmounted by a more modestly sized 3,821 square foot second floor. Maybe it’s time to search around the 982 square foot attached garage with lake views and see if the kids are there, transfixed by the waves below.
This is one big house. It is located on N. Circle Road, east of N. Lake Shore Drive and north of E. Donges Bay Rd. in southeast Mequon.
Circle Road is true to its name, but it is a cul-de-sac with a reason, since it loops around an attractive chunk of land with only one access point. The western end of the subdivision still retains the original homes of the late 1950’s – early 1960’s that were built here. Some original residents remain. Others, like Ted Glorioso, have long since moved on. The Swiss-style chalet home built by Ozaukee County Supervisor (in a gentler era) and Swiss native Fred Bote remains, although he has died.
But it is toward the east side of the circular road that the street looks entirely different than its historic antecedent. The east side, especially those lots on the lake, has been almost entirely transformed as demand for lakefront property has marched relentlessly along its shore. Many of the original homes have been torn down to be replaced by very large homes like that of the Marottas, which hulk largely, and could as likely occupy a spot on a country club fairway as the bluffs of a beautiful lake.
The Marotta home had been the site of the Gettelman home for perhaps 40 or more years. That structure was of conventional upper middle class mid-century ranch architecture, with perhaps a few concessions (more windows) to its lake location. It sat nicely on its property, as did its neighbors. A passerby could actually see Lake Michigan beyond, and the neighborhood had a certain unity.
The homes on the north end of the circle abutted Virmond Park, an Ozaukee County-owned property that gives you a good idea of the “priorities that dictate” Ozaukee County when it comes to budget for and manage its “quality of life” public spaces. Precious little is spent on that. To the south, the subdivision was immediately next door to the Chalet on the Lake Restaurant, which ended its decades long run in 1991 when it was shot up for a TV movie on John Dillinger, where it stood in for the Little Bohemia resort.
The Marottas bought the 2.42 acre vacant lot in 2008 for $625,900. In April, 2010, they took out a permit for a $1,500,000 “new dwelling.” Today the property is assessed at $625,900 for the land, $1,625,000 for the improvements for a total of $2,250,900.
The Marotta home, with its tall ceilings and repetitive arched windows, looks like it longs to return to the cover of a Gothic romance novel. It does not sit well on its site. The home has a clearly defined main entry crowned with a turret with spikes! To the north a broad staircase leads from the elevated first floor directly to a grassy lawn below. Surely, a terrace should have surrounded the first floor, and the stairs should have led to a formally structured parterre. Instead, a row of recently planted trees emphasize the austerity of the dwelling.
By contrast, the visitor is encouraged to look at the orange structure to the south of the Marotta home. It could easily be overlooked, but upon closer inspection you can see a modern full-sized home dwarfed by the giant shadow cast by its neighboring McMansion.
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Did his wife let him "KEEP" the house after the divorce?? ;)
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WTF is a "Director of Sustainability"?
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First, I find it ironic that a "director of sustainability" would live in a house like that.
Second, Kim Marotta was just gorgeous as a student. She looks gorgeous now. With a divorce she would be as much out of my league now as she was then.
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WTF is a "Director of Sustainability"?
Leads a companies efforts to be more "environmentally friendly" while hopefully making money in the process.
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What's crazy is that four of my little condos would fit in his basement. WTF is wrong with people that they need such excess?
What is really pathetic is his wife is the Chief "Sustainability" Officer for MillerCoors. What a f ucking hypocrite. Miller should can her ass for being irresponsible.
The only thing she is sustaining is an unsustainable lifestyle built on excess, waste, and profligacy.
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I was waiting for the "significant ethical dimension" of moral outrage...
the Chief Sustainability Officer is quite the kicker to all of it...
What's crazy is that four of my little condos would fit in his basement. WTF is wrong with people that they need such excess?
What is really pathetic is his wife is the Chief "Sustainability" Officer for MillerCoors. What a f ucking hypocrite. Miller should can her ass for being irresponsible.
The only thing she is sustaining is an unsustainable lifestyle built on excess, waste, and profligacy.
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What's crazy is that four of my little condos would fit in his basement. WTF is wrong with people that they need such excess?
What is really pathetic is his wife is the Chief "Sustainability" Officer for MillerCoors. What a f ucking hypocrite. Miller should can her ass for being irresponsible.
The only thing she is sustaining is an unsustainable lifestyle built on excess, waste, and profligacy.
Some people are stupid with their money and have to show everyone they are successful by buying a palace.
I wonder how much the heating and cooling is in that warehouse every month.
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What's crazy is that four of my little condos would fit in his basement. WTF is wrong with people that they need such excess?
What is really pathetic is his wife is the Chief "Sustainability" Officer for MillerCoors. What a f ucking hypocrite. Miller should can her ass for being irresponsible.
The only thing she is sustaining is an unsustainable lifestyle built on excess, waste, and profligacy.
Keefe I take it this is your favorite 80s Dead song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOx4Ru5o36U
Fits exactly into the stuff you've been talking about in regards to excess, waste, and what can we do for the next generation
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Some people are stupid with their money and have to show everyone they are successful by buying a palace.
I wonder how much the heating and cooling is in that warehouse every month.
What's astounding is that both Bert and Marotta built these monstrosities. They actually sat down and dreamed up these things, not once ever asking themselves about what they needed v what they wanted. Aren't they embarrassed when they drive up at night and these things fill up their windscreen?
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What's astounding is that both Bert and Marotta built these monstrosities. They actually sat down and dreamed up these things, not once ever asking themselves about what they needed v what they wanted. Aren't they embarrassed when they drive up at night and these things fill up their windscreen?
The reason they build these monstrosities is to house their enormous egos. I can't imagine living in a house that it may take a 5 minute walk to talk to a family member.
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The smaller modern structure to the right, if a house, looks pretty cool. More my style and size, I think.
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WTF is a "Director of Sustainability"?
Probably similar to a Director of Community Affairs type of job.
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Probably similar to a Director of Community Affairs type of job.
Actually, not. She is the Chief Environmental Responsibility Officer for her corporation which is a very specific mandate and quite different than Community Outreach. On the left coast these roles typically have people with science backgrounds and exceptional green credentials rather than lawyers. And they certainly live the mission. If Marotta was in Seattle or SF the press would crucify her for living in that house and would be justified in doing so.
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My house is the same size as his garage!
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WTF is a "Director of Sustainability"?
www.greenbiz.com/blog/2012/08/21/public-defender-cso-kim-marotta-millercoors (http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2012/08/21/public-defender-cso-kim-marotta-millercoors)
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If the Wisconsin media didn't bury Marc Marotta for the sh*t he pulled when working for the governor, they certainly aren't going to bury her for this. (And that isn't a political statement...)
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http://www.jsonline.com/supergallery?id=250498471&ddd=y&item=151605061#
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Even if I had the $$ to build this pile, I'd still take an old, understated victorian with a wraparound porch.
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If the Wisconsin media didn't bury Marc Marotta for the sh*t he pulled when working for the governor, they certainly aren't going to bury her for this. (And that isn't a political statement...)
I like Marc personally. Was an engaging guy as a student, and it was clear he had bigger fish to fry. We called him "Senator" back then.
I can only guess why the media didn't bury him.
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If the Wisconsin media didn't bury Marc Marotta for the sh*t he pulled when working for the governor, they certainly aren't going to bury her for this. (And that isn't a political statement...)
Yea, I don't know about his politics or what happened but if she were in Seattle or SF in that job and living in that house she would hear about it. And she should. There is nothing sustainable about that lifestyle.
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Yea, I don't know about his politics or what happened but if she were in Seattle or SF in that job and living in that house she would hear about it. And she should. There is nothing sustainable about that lifestyle.
Maybe they have a composting facility wing?
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The smaller modern structure to the right, if a house, looks pretty cool. More my style and size, I think.
That's where they store all the leftover sustainability equipment.
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What is wrong with some of you?
If he/she/they want a big house that he/she/they have paid for, they can have it. This is America, isn't it? A person still has the right to spend money the way he/she sees fit, right?
Some people have car collections, some big houses, some like to travel. What the big f'ing deal? And you think this is excessive? Have you ever been in one of the turn of the 19th century mansions? This is a shack in comparison.
FACT is that the standard of living for EVERY strata of the income scale is higher today than it ever has been. We live in a time of unprecedented prosperity - all of us, no matter what the income. We should all be thankful, not bitching about trivial crap like this.
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What is wrong with some of you?
If he/she/they want a big house that he/she/they have paid for, they can have it. This is America, isn't it? A person still has the right to spend money the way he/she sees fit, right?
Is anyone arguing they don't have the right to build such a house? No.
We're saying it's ugly.
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What is wrong with some of you?
If he/she/they want a big house that he/she/they have paid for, they can have it. This is America, isn't it? A person still has the right to spend money the way he/she sees fit, right?
Some people have car collections, some big houses, some like to travel. What the big f'ing deal? And you think this is excessive? Have you ever been in one of the turn of the 19th century mansions? This is a shack in comparison.
FACT is that the standard of living for EVERY strata of the income scale is higher today than it ever has been. We live in a time of unprecedented prosperity - all of us, no matter what the income. We should all be thankful, not bitching about trivial crap like this.
+1
Everyone else in Milwaukee would laugh at how much we spend on MUBB. Throwing stones and all of that.
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boy,
I didnt know we had so many democrats on this board ::)
U guys taking the bulk of your incomes and helping the underpriveldged or are u just hating on those that have been more financially successful?
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boy,
I didnt know we had so many democrats on this board ::)
U guys taking the bulk of your incomes and helping the underpriveldged or are u just hating on those that have been more financially successful?
No I just think their house is ugly.
Seriously if you offered a straight trade for my house, offered to pay the utility and property tax difference, and said I had to live in it (ie, couldn't sell it), I would stay in my house. I have absolutely no desire to live in a house like that.
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Is anyone arguing they don't have the right to build such a house? No.
We're saying it's ugly.
Agreed. Of course they have the right. No one wants to make it illegal. We have the right to question the morality, ethics, and if it is best for society. The right to ask the question "does it make any sense" what are the current and future societal costs.
We need people to think about these things and not just think bigger and more is better. More stuff is better? No.
Maybe tearing down a mid-century modern to build that should be illegal ;D Just kidding, but it does hurt as I love the modern stuff like the house to the south.
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Is anyone arguing they don't have the right to build such a house? No.
We're saying it's ugly.
Really?
See: What's astounding is that both Bert and Marotta built these monstrosities. They actually sat down and dreamed up these things, not once ever asking themselves about what they needed v what they wanted. Aren't they embarrassed when they drive up at night and these things fill up their windscreen?
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Really?
See: What's astounding is that both Bert and Marotta built these monstrosities. They actually sat down and dreamed up these things, not once ever asking themselves about what they needed v what they wanted. Aren't they embarrassed when they drive up at night and these things fill up their windscreen?
Calm down.
Not everybody has to like Marc's place because it's big or expensive.
Some people don't like it.
So what?
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Agreed. Of course they have the right. No one wants to make it illegal. We have the right to question the morality, ethics, and if it is best for society. The right to ask the question "does it make any sense" what are the current and future societal costs.
We need people to think about these things and not just think bigger and more is better. More stuff is better? No.
Maybe tearing down a mid-century modern to build that should be illegal ;D Just kidding, but it does hurt as I love the modern stuff like the house to the south.
Whose place is it to decide how big is too big? How much is too much? What are "proper" morals and what aren't? What makes "sense", to use your term, and what doesn't?
Is it your place? Mine?
These decisions in a free society MUST be left up to the individual. The consequences of those decisions should also fall on the individual.
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Calm down.
Not everybody has to like Marc's place because it's big or expensive.
Some people don't like it.
So what?
I have no problem with who likes or doesn't like a house. I have a big problem with some people saying that it is somehow inappropriate to build a big house. That it would be better for society if these people looked at life differently and adjusted their respective moral compasses.
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Really?
See: What's astounding is that both Bert and Marotta built these monstrosities. They actually sat down and dreamed up these things, not once ever asking themselves about what they needed v what they wanted. Aren't they embarrassed when they drive up at night and these things fill up their windscreen?
Where does this quote say that they don't have the right.
Seriously, this isn't that difficult a concept to understand.
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I have no problem with who likes or doesn't like a house. I have a big problem with some people saying that it is somehow inappropriate to build a big house. That it would be better for society if these people looked at life differently and adjusted their respective moral compasses.
Eh...it's an opinion. Sorry you don't share it. But no one is saying that the government should get involved.
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Actually, not. She is the Chief Environmental Responsibility Officer for her corporation which is a very specific mandate and quite different than Community Outreach. On the left coast these roles typically have people with science backgrounds and exceptional green credentials rather than lawyers. And they certainly live the mission. If Marotta was in Seattle or SF the press would crucify her for living in that house and would be justified in doing so.
I was being facetious. 8-)
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I'm not impressed ... unless that is the guest house.
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I'm as libertarian as they come, so I agree that they have every right to build it. I also think that everyone else has the right to comment on how much of a waste it is and what it says about the character of the people who live in it.
I also do not understand the appeal of building on these huge properties that essentially do not have neighborhoods. I'd much rather have a nice property in an area with other houses, etc. Grown trees.
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Really?
See: What's astounding is that both Bert and Marotta built these monstrosities. They actually sat down and dreamed up these things, not once ever asking themselves about what they needed v what they wanted. Aren't they embarrassed when they drive up at night and these things fill up their windscreen?
No where does it say they don't have the right. Many of us think of the societal costs and would blush and be embarrassed.
Are you saying that we can't have an opinion that this is not a best practice that it isn't right for our society? That we shouldn't have a discussion that this is not a sustainable way for a society to live and that we need to change how we think of success?
I don't want to make it illegal to buy a new car every year or build a hugh house, but I would hope people at least start to think about the consequences of a society that replaces stuff with more and more stuff.
But I digress. I think about what it takes to make such a house: All the costs of production just to harvest raw materials, then convert and transport and make building materials, then transport these and build, etc.. it takes so much energy and resources. Then to sustain it and keep it up. The furnish it. Is it built to last 100 years? Probably not, of course, most modern construction is essentially a tear down or replace and rebuild it in stages over a 30 year cycle. I just can't justify it, and I can't do it. I think it is a bad American practice.
But, they have the right to do it and I don't want to take that right away. No legal line needs to be drawn.
Compare that with the thoughtfulness and simplicity of caring as set forth in this little blurb/teaching (not mine, but again let's at least think about the consequences of how we live and spend):
"The most important event, when pursuing a spiritual path, is to meet your teacher. He or she touches something within you that brings the teachings to life. In my life, this person was our temple’s founder, Rev. Gyomay Kubose. His approach to the Buddhadharma was simple, yet deeply profound. An example of this was a story he often told the Dharma school children.
Rev. Gyomay told them that every night, before he went to bed, he would tell his shoes, “Thank you my shoes.” This seemed silly. Why would anyone thank their shoes? After all, the shoes couldn’t hear you, they were just shoes. Rev. Gyomay explained that throughout the day his shoes had kept his feet warm and dry. They had protected him from stones, glass and other objects that might have injured him. His life in the city was much more pleasant because of his shoes. His shoes did all this and expected no reward. By thanking them he was expressing his gratitude for all they had done. Even more, this gratitude went beyond just his shoes.
Buddhism speaks of the Oneness of all things. Too often, we think of ourselves as existing apart from others. Our ego wants us to believe that we are self sufficient and completely independent. This attitude is a cause of our suffering. Rev. Gyomay’s shoes existed because of the hard work of all those involved in their manufacture and delivery. The leather in his shoes came from the hide of an animal. His “Thank you my shoes” encompassed a gratitude to all of these. And all the history and people and events and animals that made the production process possible and made those shoes possible.
All that exists now is the result of that which has come before. The situation into which we are born is a result of factors out of our control. The various opportunities and hardships we encounter, and how we respond, also shapes our lives. Many people in the world are not fortunate enough to have shoes. Mindful of this, “Thank you my shoes” acknowledged his gratitude for the causes and conditions that resulted in his present life.
A simple story touching upon basic Buddhist teachings. Giving without the expectation of reward. The Oneness of all things. Karma, the law of cause and effect. Throughout his life, until his death at age 95, Rev. Gyomay was able to make the most difficult concepts understandable and relevant to everyday life. What is more important, he lived the teachings. He was a true teacher."
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You want opulence, you guys could go crazy in L.A. or many other places. MKE ain't nothin'
Didn't know we lived in Rusky.
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What did I miss? Why is any of this relevant to MUBB?
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I also do not understand the appeal of building on these huge properties that essentially do not have neighborhoods
That I do understand - sure nice not to have neighbors 4 feet away where you can hear them fart in their own toilet... or far enough away that it's a planned effort to "stop by"
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I'm hoping Wojo gets a commitment soon so we can talk about BB again!
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can we have a last minute entry to the Meme tourney - "moral outrage at large home building"
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I'm not impressed ... unless that is the guest house.
Funny!!!
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I guess I'm in the minority here. When it gets to the time when I'm going to be buying houses, I couldn't care less about sustainability. I want to get a huge house like the one I've grown up in and one like my grandparents had. I would like more land though, so the neighbors would be further away. I'll also be buying a big, fast and powerful car. Because - "That's what the money is for!"
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GOO - Very well said.
As others have said, Bert and Marc certainly have every "right" to build monstrous McMansions...just like others have every right to question the role of such ostentatious houses from the larger perspective of sustainability, the responsible use of resources and the ever-growing focus in our society on material possessions.
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This is a ridiculous topic, nice house Marc, he earned it. If you like real estate, go to zillow and put in Malibu to see pricing, starting at $57M, or type in the street paradise cove in malibu and
see what trailer parks cost there, Stevie Nicks just bought one for $4M.
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No where does it say they don't have the right. Many of us think of the societal costs and would blush and be embarrassed.
Are you saying that we can't have an opinion that this is not a best practice that it isn't right for our society? That we shouldn't have a discussion that this is not a sustainable way for a society to live and that we need to change how we think of success?
I don't want to make it illegal to buy a new car every year or build a hugh house, but I would hope people at least start to think about the consequences of a society that replaces stuff with more and more stuff.
But I digress. I think about what it takes to make such a house: All the costs of production just to harvest raw materials, then convert and transport and make building materials, then transport these and build, etc.. it takes so much energy and resources. Then to sustain it and keep it up. The furnish it. Is it built to last 100 years? Probably not, of course, most modern construction is essentially a tear down or replace and rebuild it in stages over a 30 year cycle. I just can't justify it, and I can't do it. I think it is a bad American practice.
But, they have the right to do it and I don't want to take that right away. No legal line needs to be drawn.
Compare that with the thoughtfulness and simplicity of caring as set forth in this little blurb/teaching (not mine, but again let's at least think about the consequences of how we live and spend):
"The most important event, when pursuing a spiritual path, is to meet your teacher. He or she touches something within you that brings the teachings to life. In my life, this person was our temple’s founder, Rev. Gyomay Kubose. His approach to the Buddhadharma was simple, yet deeply profound. An example of this was a story he often told the Dharma school children.
Rev. Gyomay told them that every night, before he went to bed, he would tell his shoes, “Thank you my shoes.” This seemed silly. Why would anyone thank their shoes? After all, the shoes couldn’t hear you, they were just shoes. Rev. Gyomay explained that throughout the day his shoes had kept his feet warm and dry. They had protected him from stones, glass and other objects that might have injured him. His life in the city was much more pleasant because of his shoes. His shoes did all this and expected no reward. By thanking them he was expressing his gratitude for all they had done. Even more, this gratitude went beyond just his shoes.
Buddhism speaks of the Oneness of all things. Too often, we think of ourselves as existing apart from others. Our ego wants us to believe that we are self sufficient and completely independent. This attitude is a cause of our suffering. Rev. Gyomay’s shoes existed because of the hard work of all those involved in their manufacture and delivery. The leather in his shoes came from the hide of an animal. His “Thank you my shoes” encompassed a gratitude to all of these. And all the history and people and events and animals that made the production process possible and made those shoes possible.
All that exists now is the result of that which has come before. The situation into which we are born is a result of factors out of our control. The various opportunities and hardships we encounter, and how we respond, also shapes our lives. Many people in the world are not fortunate enough to have shoes. Mindful of this, “Thank you my shoes” acknowledged his gratitude for the causes and conditions that resulted in his present life.
A simple story touching upon basic Buddhist teachings. Giving without the expectation of reward. The Oneness of all things. Karma, the law of cause and effect. Throughout his life, until his death at age 95, Rev. Gyomay was able to make the most difficult concepts understandable and relevant to everyday life. What is more important, he lived the teachings. He was a true teacher."
Your reverend is a wise man. Those who are grateful about the simple (the shoes) and the profound (friends and family) are the happiest people I know. Grateful in every way is what I'm trying to become. When I succeed I'm happy. When I get embroiled in judging how others choose to live I become unhappy and a bit of a prick. Want to persuade people? Live your beliefs. Be a good example. It's more effective than constantly contrasting your enlightenment to what you consider other's selfishness, stupidly, etc. And I think your Rev. Gyomay would agree with me.
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Whose place is it to decide how big is too big? How much is too much? What are "proper" morals and what aren't? What makes "sense", to use your term, and what doesn't?
Is it your place? Mine?
These decisions in a free society MUST be left up to the individual. The consequences of those decisions should also fall on the individual.
Who am I? Why are we here?
....am I real?
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First, I find it ironic that a "director of sustainability" would live in a house like that.
The position of "director of sustainability" at a major industrial company is typically ironic in and of itself.
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I guess I'm in the minority here. When it gets to the time when I'm going to be buying houses, I couldn't care less about sustainability. I want to get a huge house like the one I've grown up in and one like my grandparents had. I would like more land though, so the neighbors would be further away. I'll also be buying a big, fast and powerful car. Because - "That's what the money is for!"
Good for you(r ego). But you do know you can have a big house that is ALSO built sustainably and energy-efficiently, right? Why are some many people confused that these are not mutually exclusive ideas.
You know what your grandparent's house also had? Lead paint.
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Ain't no big thang.
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If I win the lottery I will spend it all reasonably and make no major changes to my lifestyle.
Of course I'm saying this before I win the lottery ::)
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Compensating?
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Ain't no big thang.
how many sq ft you got there, kin?
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If one can afford the house and the expenses that go with it, as well as afford to buy other things and put kids through school, why not have a house like that? I assume Mark and his wife give to charities. Not everyone is suggesting the Marottas redistribute their wealth, but for those who are, are you serious? This is America and we live in a capitalist society!
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If one can afford the house and the expenses that go with it, as well as afford to buy other things and put kids through school, why not have a house like that?
Because it's ugly.
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If one can afford the house and the expenses that go with it, as well as afford to buy other things and put kids through school, why not have a house like that? I assume Mark and his wife give to charities. Not everyone is suggesting the Marottas redistribute their wealth, but for those who are, are you serious? This is America and we live in a capitalist society!
I don't know...maybe because of Catholicism? The Pope would have many other ways he could spend money besides on his bad tastes.
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boy,
I didnt know we had so many democrats on this board ::)
U guys taking the bulk of your incomes and helping the underpriveldged or are u just hating on those that have been more financially successful?
No, I've helped 3 universities (Marquette one of them) by paying half tuition for my kid's education.
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I'm as libertarian as they come, so I agree that they have every right to build it. I also think that everyone else has the right to comment on how much of a waste it is and what it says about the character of the people who live in it.
I also do not understand the appeal of building on these huge properties that essentially do not have neighborhoods. I'd much rather have a nice property in an area with other houses, etc. Grown trees.
+100
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I have no problem with who likes or doesn't like a house. I have a big problem with some people saying that it is somehow inappropriate to build a big house. That it would be better for society if these people looked at life differently and adjusted their respective moral compasses.
People have opinions.
Nobody was saying it Marc's house should be illegal.
IMHO, capitalism makes the world go 'round, so good for Marc.
I will never have a house like Marc in my lifetime, regardless of my earnings. It's not how I live. I HATE owning stuff I don't use. HATE it. I could never use a building that size enough to justify it to myself.
"A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone." -Thoreau
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Even if I had the $$ to build this pile, I'd still take an old, understated victorian with a wraparound porch.
Yup. That's why I drive a truck as well. Can afford nicer, but eh. It makes for a fun carpool ride. The other 3 dudes have Lexus, Mercedes, BMW. When its my turn to drive, they get the truck. Don't like it....drive yourself. Yee haw.
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Yup. That's why I drive a truck as well. Can afford nicer, but eh. It makes for a fun carpool ride. The other 3 dudes have Lexus, Mercedes, BMW. When its my turn to drive, they get the truck. Don't like it....drive yourself. Yee haw.
Ha! But does it have a hybrid hydrogen-Compressed Natural Gas ICE?
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The position of "director of sustainability" at a major industrial company is typically ironic in and of itself.
So is the idea of carbon tax credits, but irony abounds on these things
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I don't know...maybe because of Catholicism? The Pope would have many other ways he could spend money besides on his bad tastes.
Correct, it costs a lot of money to sweep all those sexual abuse cases under the rug.
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boy,
I didnt know we had so many democrats on this board ::)
U guys taking the bulk of your incomes and helping the underpriveldged or are u just hating on those that have been more financially successful?
Some of us can afford to buy Bert's or Marotta's house but have a different set of values.
On a climbing trip in Nepal we sheltered in a Buddhist monastery. We were wearing nestled in $500 sleeping bags beneath layers of Patagonia and Arc'teryx. The monks had a single silk sheet.
Simplicity is by far the more elegant choice.
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Some of us can afford to buy Bert's or Marotta's house but have a different set of values.
On a climbing trip in Nepal we sheltered in a Buddhist monastery. We were wearing nestled in $500 sleeping bags beneath layers of Patagonia and Arc'teryx. The monks had a single silk sheet.
Simplicity is by far the more elegant choice.
Simple but colder, grasshopper.
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If one can afford the house and the expenses that go with it, as well as afford to buy other things and put kids through school, why not have a house like that? I assume Mark and his wife give to charities. Not everyone is suggesting the Marottas redistribute their wealth, but for those who are, are you serious? This is America and we live in a capitalist society!
Have you ever watched a gluttonous person gorging themselves at one of those Sunday brunch buffets and not felt a sense of revulsion?
I will never suggest there should be legal conventions on consumption of this sort but I would hope people would make decisions based on need rather than desire. But what is outrageous about these two properties is that in one case, the owner is one who proclaims loudly to being a down-to-earth man of principle and character who is unaffected by the artificial and superficial. In the second, the owner is the Environmental Steward for a MNC. There is no way anyone can suggest that degree of consumption is anything but wasteful.
It is the hypocrisy I find disturbing.
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No, I've helped 3 universities (Marquette one of them) by paying half tuition for my kid's education.
Tuition doesn't cover all of the costs of an education. They are subsidized by donations. So you weren't helping 3 universities by paying half tuition. Their fundraising efforts helped you.
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So is the idea of carbon tax credits, but irony abounds on these things
I remember seeing Carbon Tax Credit kiosks at Heathrow and thinking that is pure BS.
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Have you ever watched a gluttonous person gorging themselves at one of those Sunday brunch buffets and not felt a sense of revulsion?
.
Bringing this back to Marquette basketball. On our way back to Chicago from Indy after the Butler game we stopped at an all you can eat KFC (yes they exist in Indiana) which was quite delicious, but the people watching at such a location was comical to say the least.
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instead of revulsion - maybe compassion as they may have medical issues, mental issues. Or maybe they don't have the perfect self-control and discipline or consumption view that you have.
good lord, you must be the perfect human...
can you tell us more of your worldly adventures, success in the capital world or charitable / humanitarian endeavors...
Have you ever watched a gluttonous person gorging themselves at one of those Sunday brunch buffets and not felt a sense of revulsion?
I will never suggest there should be legal conventions on consumption of this sort but I would hope people would make decisions based on need rather than desire. But what is outrageous about these two properties is that in one case, the owner is one who proclaims loudly to being a down-to-earth man of principle and character who is unaffected by the artificial and superficial. In the second, the owner is the Environmental Steward for a MNC. There is no way anyone can suggest that degree of consumption is anything but wasteful.
It is the hypocrisy I find disturbing.
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NM - duplicate
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Judge not, that ye be not judged.
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This must be one helluva slow day if anyone has the time to be so outraged at the size of Marc Marotta's house to then post that outrage to an Internet message board.
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Ha! But does it have a hybrid hydrogen-Compressed Natural Gas ICE?
Hell no....I'm delivering carbon to the plants and trees that need it to survive
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Judge not, that ye be not judged.
If we could only inject that philosophy into the Derrick Wilson threads.
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I remember seeing Carbon Tax Credit kiosks at Heathrow and thinking that is pure BS.
It's the ultimate hypocrisy of hypocrisies and purely a wealth redistribution game.
The Australians went down that rabbit hole and then soon realized what a monstrous scam it was....the people in the last election blew it out of the water.
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Correct, it costs a lot of money to sweep all those sexual abuse cases under the rug.
Good deflection there.
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Tuition doesn't cover all of the costs of an education. They are subsidized by donations. So you weren't helping 3 universities by paying half tuition. Their fundraising efforts helped you.
Ok, sorry should have used teal. I do give to the 3 schools (more to MU).
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I dont get it. I own a home that is over 5000 sq feet, i also own a porsche, a bmw, a vw, a volvo, an audi, and a full sized 4 door dodge ram.
Does this make me a bad guy?
Also i am fishing the smallmouth spawn tommorow, is that another check in the negative column?
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I dont get it. I own a home that is over 5000 sq feet, i also own a porsche, a bmw, a vw, a volvo, an audi, and a full sized 4 door dodge ram.
Does this make me a bad guy?
No, Just kind of a jerky braggart.
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I dont get it. I own a home that is over 5000 sq feet, i also own a porsche, a bmw, a vw, a volvo, an audi, and a full sized 4 door dodge ram.
Does this make me a bad guy?
Also i am fishing the smallmouth spawn tommorow, is that another check in the negative column?
No, just bad with your money.
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Donating the Audi and catch and release tommorow. Should count for something.
Lastly, if u are an MU grad and are not making at least $400k a year then something went wrong along the way.
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No, just bad with your money.
So you don't eat the fish you catch. You only torture them for a little while.
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I dont get it. I own a home that is over 5000 sq feet, i also own a porsche, a bmw, a vw, a volvo, an audi, and a full sized 4 door dodge ram.
Does this make me a bad guy?
Also i am fishing the smallmouth spawn tommorow, is that another check in the negative column?
UNDERACHIEVER!
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Donating the Audi and catch and release tommorow. Should count for something.
Lastly, if u are an MU grad and are not making at least $400k a year then something went wrong along the way.
lol.
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Is his kid playing with Nick?
http://login.sportngin.com/check_login?next_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d1circuit.com%2Fnews_article%2Fshow%2F378387%3Freferrer_id%3D1204230
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I dont get it. I own a home that is over 5000 sq feet, i also own a porsche, a bmw, a vw, a volvo, an audi, and a full sized 4 door dodge ram.
Does this make me a bad guy?
Also i am fishing the smallmouth spawn tommorow, is that another check in the negative column?
And Smallie season isn't open for keeping them yet. So no points for you there.
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I dont get it. I own a home that is over 5000 sq feet, i also own a porsche, a bmw, a vw, a volvo, an audi, and a full sized 4 door dodge ram.
Does this make me a bad guy?
Also i am fishing the smallmouth spawn tommorow, is that another check in the negative column?
Oh, a Twykenham Hills snob I see. Spose you went to Stanley Clark too. ;)
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NM. Oops
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First, I find it ironic that a "director of sustainability" would live in a house like that.
I love those little ironies between professional and personal lives. The accountant whose personal finances are a mess, the abundance of hairdressers who appear to have a dead animal on their heads. This is an intriguing new one.
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Of all the things to judge someone on, you guys are going nuts about a house? Buzz was a basketball coach and a pretty damn good one (most years). Who cares if he has bad taste? We didn't seem to mind his bad taste when wearing tacky suits on the sidelines that were probably a bigger waste of money. He earned his money and can spend it however he wants.
He's making millions a year and needs to spend it someone how and a house is honestly one of the better spoils. He will get most of his money back. Also, all the excess stuff he had probably related to his job. I'm sure invited friends of the program to the house and they had a great time. I also bet the court and theater were used from fun team meetings and practices.
I'm just glad he didn't waste it on hookers and blow. But then again, I'm sure everyone on this board would donate 90% of their money to charity if they made that much money.
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My final post in this thread. For me and for most of us that see this as an issue, it is not like we are angry about... or are pointing fingers and yelling. Much more philosophical and relaxed.
I have a brother that has the hugh house, name cars one after another, Italian sports cars, etc. I don't think it is "the right thing to do" for the reasons many of us mention above. And I might ride him a little in a fun way and stuff, but there is no outrage or anger.
About 20 years ago I almost, due to urging by my wife, built one of these embarrassments. Money wasn't and isn't the issue. I knew better and we didn't, and I am thankful. We thought about it and just didn't do it. If others want to live that way, so be it, but I see it as misguided ethically and morally and really think a lot of Americans don't think twice about it and just see bigger as better and the more stuff the better and don't care about the consequences or don't think about it.
I did learn at MU that our actions, inaction, and choices have consequences and moral consequences. I guess some of us think about this and some don't really care. I'll continue to hope for a "better" society from my perspective.
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Marc Marotta’s Mequon McMansion
http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2014/04/28/house-confidential-marc-marottas-mequon-mcmansion/
(http://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/gallery/other-cities/img_1205.jpg)
it is comforting to know the attorney can leave his office in the US Bank Building behind him at the end of a day’s work and head to his custom-built lakefront home in the City of Mequon – yes, that’s in Ozaukee County — where he resides with his wife Kim Marotta, Director of Sustainability at Miller Coors, and their four children.
The first task is probably to find them in this cavernous dwelling, built in 2010. It has 17 rooms, of which 7 are bedrooms. There are 6 full baths and 3 half-baths in the home, along with “5 add’l fixtures”
Oh, we’ll find them later — off to the 5,605 square foot basement, of which 4,926 square feet is a finished rec room. That is a lot of recreating. Above is a first floor with 4,623 square feet of living space, surmounted by a more modestly sized 3,821 square foot second floor. Maybe it’s time to search around the 982 square foot attached garage with lake views and see if the kids are there, transfixed by the waves below.
This is one big house. It is located on N. Circle Road, east of N. Lake Shore Drive and north of E. Donges Bay Rd. in southeast Mequon.
Circle Road is true to its name, but it is a cul-de-sac with a reason, since it loops around an attractive chunk of land with only one access point. The western end of the subdivision still retains the original homes of the late 1950’s – early 1960’s that were built here. Some original residents remain. Others, like Ted Glorioso, have long since moved on. The Swiss-style chalet home built by Ozaukee County Supervisor (in a gentler era) and Swiss native Fred Bote remains, although he has died.
But it is toward the east side of the circular road that the street looks entirely different than its historic antecedent. The east side, especially those lots on the lake, has been almost entirely transformed as demand for lakefront property has marched relentlessly along its shore. Many of the original homes have been torn down to be replaced by very large homes like that of the Marottas, which hulk largely, and could as likely occupy a spot on a country club fairway as the bluffs of a beautiful lake.
The Marotta home had been the site of the Gettelman home for perhaps 40 or more years. That structure was of conventional upper middle class mid-century ranch architecture, with perhaps a few concessions (more windows) to its lake location. It sat nicely on its property, as did its neighbors. A passerby could actually see Lake Michigan beyond, and the neighborhood had a certain unity.
The homes on the north end of the circle abutted Virmond Park, an Ozaukee County-owned property that gives you a good idea of the “priorities that dictate” Ozaukee County when it comes to budget for and manage its “quality of life” public spaces. Precious little is spent on that. To the south, the subdivision was immediately next door to the Chalet on the Lake Restaurant, which ended its decades long run in 1991 when it was shot up for a TV movie on John Dillinger, where it stood in for the Little Bohemia resort.
The Marottas bought the 2.42 acre vacant lot in 2008 for $625,900. In April, 2010, they took out a permit for a $1,500,000 “new dwelling.” Today the property is assessed at $625,900 for the land, $1,625,000 for the improvements for a total of $2,250,900.
The Marotta home, with its tall ceilings and repetitive arched windows, looks like it longs to return to the cover of a Gothic romance novel. It does not sit well on its site. The home has a clearly defined main entry crowned with a turret with spikes! To the north a broad staircase leads from the elevated first floor directly to a grassy lawn below. Surely, a terrace should have surrounded the first floor, and the stairs should have led to a formally structured parterre. Instead, a row of recently planted trees emphasize the austerity of the dwelling.
By contrast, the visitor is encouraged to look at the orange structure to the south of the Marotta home. It could easily be overlooked, but upon closer inspection you can see a modern full-sized home dwarfed by the giant shadow cast by its neighboring McMansion.
Stepped up from Gazebo Hills, hey!
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how many sq ft you got there, kin?
Got a nice sized bench in Virmond Park
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Oh, a Twykenham Hills snob I see. Spose you went to Stanley Clark too. ;)
Good stuff!
Actually my oldest son did, stanley clark, CMA, now MU. Not cheap!
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Good stuff!
Actually my oldest son did, stanley clark, CMA, now MU. Not cheap!
You hitting the river this weekend for smallies? I hear the steelhead run has been outstandiing this year.
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The reason they build these monstrosities is to house their enormous egos. I can't imagine living in a house that it may take a 5 minute walk to talk to a family member.
Marotta lives in a welfare shack.
Here is a "real home" ... just sold for $250 million
(http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article8540649.ece/alternates/w620/One%20Hyde%20Park.jpg)
One Hyde Park penthouse sells for record £140m in booming London property market
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/one-hyde-park-penthouse-sells-for-record-140m-in-booming-london-property-market-9315808.html
Property experts said the top end of the London market “is looking as good as anywhere in the world” after a Knightsbridge penthouse sale set a new record for the capital.
An East European buyer is believed to have paid £140 million for the 16,000 sq ft apartment — more than 10 times the size of a typical London three-bedroom home — at the One Hyde Park scheme near Harrods.
Developer Christian Candy’s CPC Group said it had used “global professional valuation companies” to give the flat a potential price tag of £160 million to £175 million when it is fully furnished.
That would value the apartment at more than £10,000 per square foot, setting a new benchmark for London. The sale comes after some commentators suggested the long boom in trophy homes in London could be coming to and end amid growing worries over swingeing new property taxes after next year’s election.
Earlier this week one of London’s biggest landlords, the Duke of Westminster’s Grosvenor Estates, which owns swathes of Mayfair and Belgravia, said it had sold £240 million of super-prime London property because of concerns about overheating.
But more evidence of the insatiable demand for London property emerged today as property firm Capital & Counties said it had already sold £200 million worth of flats at its Lillie Square development at Earl’s Court just five weeks after its March launch.
The firm has sold 204 of 237 flats — which range in price from £600,000 to £1.4 million and will not be finished for another two years — to a mix of overseas and domestic buyers.
Chief executive Ian Hawksworth said: “Demand was overwhelming. It was so strong that we scaled up original plans for the launch.
“Overall I think it is a very sound marketplace at the moment ... London over the next five to 10 years is looking as good as anywhere in the world.”
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05/20140502_hyde2.png)
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05/20140502_hyde3.png)
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05/20140502_hyde4.png)
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05/20140502_hyde6.png)
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05/20140502_hyde5.png)
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I am amazed that a 16,000 square foot home would have a galley kitchen. Or maybe wealthy Brits don't feel the need to have the show-off gourmet kitchen that the don't actually use like rich Americans do.
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I am amazed that a 16,000 square foot home would have a galley kitchen. Or maybe wealthy Brits don't feel the need to have the show-off gourmet kitchen that the don't actually use like rich Americans do.
If you pay $250 million for a home, you have a staff of 10 to 15 to run it and you can live it for years without ever stepping foot in the kitchen.
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We get things like that out this way.
Connecticut's Copper Beech sells for a record $120 million
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101580697
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I am surprised that no one has mentioned that Marotta never actually lived in this house. He was "out of the house" before they actually moved in!
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I am surprised that no one has mentioned that Marotta never actually lived in this house. He was "out of the house" before they actually moved in!
Was he outraged by Mrs. Marotta's personal hypocrisy as regards her corporate responsibilities?
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We get things like that out this way.
Connecticut's Copper Beech sells for a record $120 million
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101580697
This record last two weeks ....
http://pagesix.com/2014/05/02/mystery-buyer-snatches-east-hampton-mansion-for-145m/
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With the cold weather of the week water temperatures dropped. We went for steelhead instead and had a fabulous day. Not only is the run historic this year but the sizes have been prolific, lots of 30" fish which are rare n some bigger, my buddy has caught 2 over 35, which are normally a once in a lifetime fish.
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With the cold weather of the week water temperatures dropped. We went for steelhead instead and had a fabulous day. Not only is the run historic this year but the sizes have been prolific, lots of 30" fish which are rare n some bigger, my buddy has caught 2 over 35, which are normally a once in a lifetime fish.
Did you go down by Twin Branch, or further down river?
I gotta believe TB is just mobbed.
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Fished between main n logan in Mish. Some really nice shallow gravel bars thru there, saw nice numbers of fish move up all morning. Not sure how to post pics thru an iphone with post one when i get to a pc
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Fished between main n logan in Mish. Some really nice shallow gravel bars thru there, saw nice numbers of fish move up all morning. Not sure how to post pics thru an iphone with post one when i get to a pc
Great area. The flats in front of Kamm's island have a lot of gravel and bedding areas. Try right in front of the channel between the island and shore too.
There's a couple of deep holes right under the Merrifield Park bridge. Also right under the walking bridge for Eberhardt.
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Great area. The flats in front of Kamm's island have a lot of gravel and bedding areas. Try right in front of the channel between the island and shore too.
There's a couple of deep holes right under the Merrifield Park bridge. Also right under the walking bridge for Eberhardt.
...and the slaughter continues unabated...
Just kidding. My buds are headed up to Gustavus in a few weeks but I have to take a pass this year. Supposed to be a record year for chinook. There is nothing like a 45 lb king making three long runs. Magnificent.
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I dont get it. I own a home that is over 5000 sq feet, i also own a porsche, a bmw, a vw, a volvo, an audi, and a full sized 4 door dodge ram.
Does this make me a bad guy?
Also i am fishing the smallmouth spawn tommorow, is that another check in the negative column?
17,000sf or GTFO
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...and the slaughter continues unabated...
Just kidding. My buds are headed up to Gustavus in a few weeks but I have to take a pass this year. Supposed to be a record year for chinook. There is nothing like a 45 lb king making three long runs. Magnificent.
Salivating reading these reports... heading to the Sandy and the Deschutes next week
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Proves I have been wrong about the value of an MU degree. Marotta has cashed in on his. Did he get his law degree from MU or elsewhere?
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Proves I have been wrong about the value of an MU degree. Marotta has cashed in on his. Did he get his law degree from MU or elsewhere?
Harvard.
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Harvard.
Thanks--that reduces the value of the MU degree to the level of a UW degree.
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I don't think that's a McMansion. That falls in the Mansion category.
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There's a local mansion for sale that was just put on the market.
Pictures: Ron Howard's Greenwich Estate
http://www.courant.com/business/real-estate/hc-pictures-ron-howards-greenwich-estate-20140505,0,748209.photogallery
Director Howard's Conyers Farm house on the market
http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Director-Howard-s-Conyers-Farm-house-on-the-market-5450123.php
Director Howard's Conyers Farm house on the market
Maggie Gordon
Published 12:44 am, Saturday, May 3, 2014
Greenwich resident and famed Hollywood director Ron Howard listed his Conyers Farm compound this week, asking $27.5 million for the chance to take his place in Greenwich's backcountry. The Howard family has called the 32-acre estate home for two decades.
"We moved 3,000 miles away from the hub of Los Angeles to raise our family here," Howard said in a statement Friday. "Whether we're watching films in our theater, walking the trails throughout our property, star gazing in our observatory, or just relaxing with friends and loved ones by the lake, Cheryl and I feel we've accomplished the goals we set when we began work on this place. Our children are grown, so it's time to move on, but the memories of this very special place will never leave us."
Greenwich Brokerage independent sales associate Lyn Stevens and her team were selected to co-market the Howard estate along with Tamar Lurie, a top-producing sales associate affiliated with Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage in Connecticut and Westchester, N.Y.
The Howard family has spent limited time in Greenwich in recent years, coming for holidays and other special occasions, while living most of the time in California, Lurie said.
But Stevens said, "We don't know that Greenwich is losing the Howards.
"They have been very bold about saying that they love Greenwich and hope to have a presence here, so we hope they stay," Stevens said Friday. "But our focus right now is getting this house sold for them."
The Howards came to Greenwich in 1985, for the most part to raise their children outside of the show-business bubble. They raised three daughters and a son here, sending them to Greenwich Country Day School. In 1994, they built the 17,200-square-foot, shingle-style mansion on their backcountry property, which they cobbled together from three undeveloped parcels.
In Greenwich, show business "is not what people think about all the time," Ron Howard told Greenwich Time in 1986. "You don't go into a restaurant and overhear people talking about film deals or television game shows or things like that."
Shortly after the move, Howard described getting used to life outside of Hollywood.
"In a way, you know, it's kind of like we're visiting Disneyland or something right now," he told the newspaper. "It's such a change for us and we're excited about it."
Living here allowed Howard to remain connected to the entertainment industry, given the proximity to New York, while being present in the lives of his children. He also liked the town because people didn't make a big deal over him.
"People don't hound you in Greenwich," he told Greenwich Time in 1991. "Everybody there might be interested, but in Greenwich, they are pretty cool. They're sophisticated."
Unlike some notables who live here, but never emerge from behind stone walls, the Howards have been part of the community.
From time to time they could be seen eating anywhere from Gabriele's Italian Steak House on Church Street or the Ginger Man on Greenwich Avenue to Tomatillo Taco Joint on Railroad Avenue and the Fairways Restaurant at the Griff on King Street.
They spoke at public meetings against plans to install a cellular phone tower at Parkway School in 1990. When a "Go Greener Greenwich Student Environmental Video Contest" was announced in 2009, Ron Howard agreed to be a judge. He did the same for the Junior League of Greenwich's inaugural Greenwich Youth Film Festival three years later.
Nearly 25 years ago, when austerity measures threatened fire station closings, the Howards arranged for proceeds from the first Greenwich showings of his film "Backdraft" to go to the Greenwich Fire Department.
"When I saw that headline in Greenwich Time, I panicked -- just couldn't believe it," Cheryl Howard said during a news conference at the Central Fire Station in 1991. "We thought (the benefit) was the best way for us to show our appreciation to the firefighters."
Another time, Howard allowed a Cos Cob resident to arrange an advanced screening of "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" to raise money for cancer research.
Stevens thinks it's likely the next owners will be similar.
"The buyer could be someone very much like the Howards -- someone with a higher profile who wants to enjoy some anonymity and privacy in that setting," she said.
The house, which technically sits in North Castle, N.Y., though all entrances are located in Greenwich, is tucked away beneath a canopy of trees.
"It's like a magical compound. You drive onto the property and you're greeted by two beautiful barns with paddocks, grazing sheep and miniature horses. It feels very much like a gentleman's farm," said Stevens, who added that the lake-side compound also includes a greenhouse, professional-grade observatory, formal and informal gardens and "everything you can imagine. It has a very serene and welcoming, inspiring feel to it. That's probably why they've been here for so long, because it's such a great environment to be creating in."
At $27.5 million, the estate is just one of three homes in town priced above $25 million currently. (The list includes Hollywood producer Bob Weinstein's waterfront home, listed at $32 million.) But while the price is at the top of the Greenwich market, Lurie said she and Stevens have already been hearing from other brokers, and they expect the house to make a big splash.
"I think the timing is great," Stevens said. "There's some real energy in the high end, and the $120 million sale last month (of Copper Beech Farm, the most expensive residential property sale on record in the U.S.) has given great confidence back to the high-end buyer that Greenwich is a great place for an investment."
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Gabriele's Italian Steak House on Church Street
Their rib eye with mascarpone mashed is exquisite.
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Keefe
You do have excellent taste. Gabriele's is outstanding. I have had some great meals there. Surprised such a simple guy gets around as much you do:)
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Keefe
You do have excellent taste. Gabriele's is outstanding. I have had some great meals there. Surprised such a simple guy gets around as much you do:)
Gabriele's is indeed outstanding but this side of Siena I would say that Va Bene is still the best I have found. Bellisimo!
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Salivating reading these reports... heading to the Sandy and the Deschutes next week
I just noticed this. Some buds just got back from the Lower Deschutes and said redsides were hitting on stonefly nymphs. Water level is perfect this year. Good luck!