MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 08, 2013, 06:15:54 PM
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Well, Wade already acted out getting a technical for throwing a ball at Belinelli. Jimmy already with a couple of boards and a 3.
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This game being played in London, cuz it's a T-Party.
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This game has made me hate the Heat even more than I normally do. That and their PA announcer is the most obnoxious one in all of basketball.
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This game has made me hate the Heat even more than I normally do. That and their PA announcer is the most obnoxious one in all of basketball.
The correlation between hatred of team and how good they are is usually extremely high.
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Ughh, Bulls fans.
How many of the Bulls fans that are cheering their team's tough gritty play, were the same ones in late 80s early 90s that were crying when the Pistons were constantly knocking MJ and Scottie on their a**es?
The Heat are a great team. Nobody besides Bulls fans wants to see them get beat by a less talented team clutching, grabbing, and elbowing their way through the series.
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Ughh, Bulls fans.
How many of the Bulls fans that are cheering their team's tough gritty play, were the same ones in late 80s early 90s that were crying when the Pistons were constantly knocking MJ and Scottie on their a**es?
The Heat are a great team. Nobody besides Bulls fans wants to see them get beat by a less talented team clutching, grabbing, and elbowing their way through the series.
Bulls fans want to see their favorite team win. I agree, how awful of them.
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Ughh, Bulls fans.
How many of the Bulls fans that are cheering their team's tough gritty play, were the same ones in late 80s early 90s that were crying when the Pistons were constantly knocking MJ and Scottie on their a**es?
The Heat are a great team. Nobody besides Bulls fans wants to see them get beat by a less talented team clutching, grabbing, and elbowing their way through the series.
This.
And Jimmy the Butts just got highlight reeled by Bron's behind the back dish to Jesus Shuttleworth.
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Ughh, Bulls fans.
How many of the Bulls fans that are cheering their team's tough gritty play, were the same ones in late 80s early 90s that were crying when the Pistons were constantly knocking MJ and Scottie on their a**es?
The Heat are a great team. Nobody besides Bulls fans wants to see them get beat by a less talented team clutching, grabbing, and elbowing their way through the series.
At least 100%
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Ughh, Bulls fans.
How many of the Bulls fans that are cheering their team's tough gritty play, were the same ones in late 80s early 90s that were crying when the Pistons were constantly knocking MJ and Scottie on their a**es?
The Heat are a great team. Nobody besides Bulls fans wants to see them get beat by a less talented team clutching, grabbing, and elbowing their way through the series.
This is such BS. Most people cant stand the Heat. Bunch of whiners.
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This is such BS. Most people cant stand the Heat. Bunch of whiners.
I guess whining about it helps... ::)
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This is such BS. Most people cant stand the Heat. Bunch of whiners.
All of my friends voted for "X", I can't figure out why he lost.
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This is such BS. Most people cant stand the Heat. Bunch of whiners.
For all the Heat/Wade haters on the issue of whining:
From this game whining:
James 1
Chalmers 3
Noah 2
Robinson 3
Gibson 2
Looks like the real whiners here were Bulls.
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This is such BS. Most people cant stand the Heat. Bunch of whiners.
Are "most people" you are referencing residing in Illinois or New York?
I would argue that most people that hate the Heat are fans that feel jilted because Wade and/or Lebron didn't pick their team. Bulls fans top this list.
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It would appear the Bulls are suffering the consequences of pulling on Superman's cape. Fairly predictable.
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The Heat are a great team. Nobody besides Bulls fans wants to see them get beat by a less talented team clutching, grabbing, and elbowing their way through the series.
False. People respect Lebron. The vitriol is generally gone. But the Heat are FAR from loved. Who honestly would root against the underdog in this series?
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False. People respect Lebron. The vitriol is generally gone. But the Heat are FAR from loved. Who honestly would root against the underdog in this series?
Me, and anyone who is a fan of great basketball. What the Bulls have to do to win this series is the opposite of great basketball.
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Me, and anyone who is a fan of great basketball. What the Bulls have to do to win this series is the opposite of great basketball.
+1.
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Me, and anyone who is a fan of great basketball. What the Bulls have to do to win this series is the opposite of great basketball.
?
What about the Nets series and game 1 was not great basketball? Playing great defense is what they would have to do win this series. The Bulls are one of the best defensive teams in the league. No one else has two big guys who can switch on screens and guard perimeter players. They also have two wing players who can hold their own as well as anyone else against elite scorers like Wade/James. They also have a pretty good defensive PG in Hinrich.
They would also have to get healthy to win this series...
You are literally the first person I have heard that does not appreciate the way the Bulls are winning. The national media is loving the Bulls and Steph Curry right now. Objectively, I think Curry's emergence and the Bulls team play/defense is the story of the playoffs and the most entertaining thing to watch.
You can root for the Heat if that is your squad. They are clearly the better team and should have swept the Bulls. But the Bulls are playing great basketball right now except for game 1 against Brooklyn and tonight. I really don't get the hate.
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This is such BS. Most people cant stand the Heat. Bunch of whiners.
Yes, and most people loved the Isiah-Worm-Laimbeer Pistons.
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?
What about the Nets series and game 1 was not great basketball? Playing great defense is what they would have to do win this series. The Bulls are one of the best defensive teams in the league. No one else has two big guys who can switch on screens and guard perimeter players. They also have two wing players who can hold their own as well as anyone else against elite scorers like Wade/James. They also have a pretty good defensive PG in Hinrich.
They would also have to get healthy to win this series...
You are literally the first person I have heard that does not appreciate the way the Bulls are winning. The national media is loving the Bulls and Steph Curry right now. Objectively, I think Curry's emergence and the Bulls team play/defense is the story of the playoffs and the most entertaining thing to watch.
You can root for the Heat if that is your squad. They are clearly the better team and should have swept the Bulls. But the Bulls are playing great basketball right now except for game 1 against Brooklyn and tonight. I really don't get the hate.
People are loving the Bulls because they are the underdog and play hard. But they beat a more talented, and disinterested bunch in the Nets...that was hardly a good basketball series.
A Heat v. anyone out of the west is the Finals series I am rooting for.
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People are loving the Bulls because they are the underdog and play hard. But they beat a more talented, and disinterested bunch in the Nets...that was hardly a good basketball series.
Game 4 was one of the best games I have ever seen. But you are right, it was overachievers vs. underachievers.
I loved that series for Jimmy showing that he can guard PGs in the NBA when he covered Deron Williams. Thibs hadn't used him much on PGs like Buzz did against Xavier a few years ago.
What do you honestly do if you are Brooklyn now? You couldn't beat the Bulls third string and you now bring back aging stars on big contracts for the next few years.
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?
What about the Nets series and game 1 was not great basketball? Playing great defense is what they would have to do win this series. The Bulls are one of the best defensive teams in the league. No one else has two big guys who can switch on screens and guard perimeter players. They also have two wing players who can hold their own as well as anyone else against elite scorers like Wade/James. They also have a pretty good defensive PG in Hinrich.
They would also have to get healthy to win this series...
You are literally the first person I have heard that does not appreciate the way the Bulls are winning. The national media is loving the Bulls and Steph Curry right now. Objectively, I think Curry's emergence and the Bulls team play/defense is the story of the playoffs and the most entertaining thing to watch.
You can root for the Heat if that is your squad. They are clearly the better team and should have swept the Bulls. But the Bulls are playing great basketball right now except for game 1 against Brooklyn and tonight. I really don't get the hate.
First, you need to get away from Chicago if I am the first person you have heard that doesn't appreciate the way the Bulls are winning.
Second, from your posts on all things Bulls, I'm not sure you are capable of "objectively" looking at the NBA.
Finally, the Heat aren't "my squad", but I am a Wade fan (obviously) and I am also a fan of great basketball. I would hate to see the Heat get tripped up by a team with average talent that uses physical play to drag their opponents down to their level.
I will concede that Nate Robinson's performance was exciting and received much positive media love. Although Nate Robinson also annoys the crap out of me, and contributes to my dislike of this Bulls team (JFB aside).
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First, you need to get away from Chicago if I am the first person you have heard that doesn't appreciate the way the Bulls are winning.
Second, from your posts on all things Bulls, I'm not sure you are capable of "objectively" looking at the NBA.
Finally, the Heat aren't "my squad", but I am a Wade fan (obviously) and I am also a fan of great basketball. I would hate to see the Heat get tripped up by a team with average talent that uses physical play to drag their opponents down to their level.
I will concede that Nate Robinson's performance was exciting and received much positive media love. Although Nate Robinson also annoys the crap out of me, and contributes to my dislike of this Bulls team (JFB aside).
1.) I don't live in Illinois... I have literally heard zero negative things in the national media about the Bulls before tonight (besides come back now Derrick stories). Can you cite anything?
2.) Not which post(s) you are talking about, but that's fine. I do like them and respect the way they play. At full strength I think that they would have a great shot at a title. Even given that, I do try to back up my points if I am trying to make one and not just assert things.
3.) That's cool. I LOVE seeing upsets. I don't think the Heat's elimination would make the Finals less exciting. Maybe David Stern wouldn't like it, but Chicago or Indiana against Memphis would actually be great hoops with both teams interior defense. Really any matchup that does not include the Knicks would be exciting.
Also, the Bulls are in no way dirtier than the Heat. I figured that is what you were suggesting. There really aren't any dirty teams in my opinion. When the Bulls beat the Heat it is because of their rebounding and defense. Hinrich had that one foul on James in the regular season which was not that bad and James gave Boozer a shot back. Birdman was roughing people up tonight. Maybe there is evidence that the Bulls are somehow playing dirty, but I think you will find that the evidence is just not there.
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False. People respect Lebron. The vitriol is generally gone. But the Heat are FAR from loved. Who honestly would root against the underdog in this series?
I am, and have no problem admitting it. Though I don't care about the NBA and won't be watching, but I would like to see Miami win.
I find Bulls fans complaining about Miami whining to be rather funny.....watching Rodman, Pippen, Michael, etc whine back in the day was commonplace.
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I find Bulls fans complaining about Miami whining to be rather funny.....watching Rodman, Pippen, Michael, etc whine back in the day was commonplace.
+1
I wish there was a way to stop it without ejecting all the good players and ruining the game. Allowing good players to whine to the officials is the best option of bad options in my opinion.
In the moment the opposing team's whining drives me and many nuts. It definitively reveals negative character flaws in that moment for some reason for almost every fan.
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1.) I don't live in Illinois... I have literally heard zero negative things in the national media about the Bulls before tonight (besides come back now Derrick stories). Can you cite anything?
2.) Not which post(s) you are talking about, but that's fine. I do like them and respect the way they play. At full strength I think that they would have a great shot at a title. Even given that, I do try to back up my points if I am trying to make one and not just assert things.
3.) That's cool. I LOVE seeing upsets. I don't think the Heat's elimination would make the Finals less exciting. Maybe David Stern wouldn't like it, but Chicago or Indiana against Memphis would actually be great hoops with both teams interior defense. Really any matchup that does not include the Knicks would be exciting.
Also, the Bulls are in no way dirtier than the Heat. I figured that is what you were suggesting. There really aren't any dirty teams in my opinion. When the Bulls beat the Heat it is because of their rebounding and defense. Hinrich had that one foul on James in the regular season which was not that bad and James gave Boozer a shot back. Birdman was roughing people up tonight. Maybe there is evidence that the Bulls are somehow playing dirty, but I think you will find that the evidence is just not there.
1. Sorry for the Chicago assumption. I shouldn't have gone there. That said, in the post I was responding to, you said that I was literally the first person you have heard that doesn't appreciate the way the Bulls are winning. You didn't specify national media. There are plenty of people that share my thoughts, as demonstrated by some of the other posts in this thread. I have also heard similar sentiments in the media, though it is probably a minority opinion. I am not going to go searching for examples, because "winning" this argument isn't that important to me.
2. I seem to remember you posting in previous threads about the Bulls and/or the Heat. Weren't you one of those who was bothered that Wade and/or Lebron didn't go to Chicago? Again, not going to go looking for old posts, so if I am mistaken, my bad. Your posts here make you sound like a pretty hardcore Bulls fan.
3. I disagree. I think the playoffs would be less exciting if the Heat get eliminated. I certainly think that the quality of play in future series would be significantly reduced, which would be disappointing IMO.
I don't think the Bulls are a "dirty" team necessarily, but I don't think you can deny that their formula for success against the Heat relies heavily on physical play and hard fouls to make up for their inferior talent. To me, that is not good for the sport, and I don't want to see it rewarded.
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1. Sorry for the Chicago assumption. I shouldn't have gone there. That said, in the post I was responding to, you said that I was literally the first person you have heard that doesn't appreciate the way the Bulls are winning. You didn't specify national media. There are plenty of people that share my thoughts, as demonstrated by some of the other posts in this thread. I have also heard similar sentiments in the media, though it is probably a minority opinion. I am not going to go searching for examples, because "winning" this argument isn't that important to me.
2. I seem to remember you posting in previous threads about the Bulls and/or the Heat. Weren't you one of those who was bothered that Wade and/or Lebron didn't go to Chicago? Again, not going to go looking for old posts, so if I am mistaken, my bad. Your posts here make you sound like a pretty hardcore Bulls fan.
3. I disagree. I think the playoffs would be less exciting if the Heat get eliminated. I certainly think that the quality of play in future series would be significantly reduced, which would be disappointing IMO.
I don't think the Bulls are a "dirty" team necessarily, but I don't think you can deny that their formula for success against the Heat relies heavily on physical play and hard fouls to make up for their inferior talent. To me, that is not good for the sport, and I don't want to see it rewarded.
1. You still are the first person who does not appreciate the way the Bulls are winning. The national media is just the only base I have. Their third string PG won them a playoff series against a team that starts four current or former all-stars, and then they won game 1 against the champs. I just don't see where the negatives are regardless of who you are rooting for. And JFB seems to have figured it out in this span.
I'm not saying that the Bulls are universally loved by any means. The only negatives I hear in the media are people saying Thibs plays his players too many minutes and D Rose needs to find some courage. I was not suggesting that they are infallible. They are pretty legitimately media favorites right now along with the Warriors. JFB is benefitting big time from this.
2. I was surprised with how 2010 played out. Not sure if I posted much on here, but may have. I did wish Wade/James came to Chicago. I just don't think that reflects any misuse of facts or over-ther-top bias.
3. Fair enough. I think Miami would be fun to watch, maybe still the most entertaining. Anyone but the Knicks, which I hate to say because I love watching Novak still.
The Bulls success does rely on tough, physical play relative to this era. There is just not a lot of dirty play period, so I don't think any team's toughness or physicality really.
The Heat should take this in 5, maybe 6 is Carlos Boozer makes a shot in one of these games. Marquette alums win either way. I'd love to see Deng come back to guard LBJ so Jimmy and Wade can go at each other.
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What do you honestly do if you are Brooklyn now? You couldn't beat the Bulls third string and you now bring back aging stars on big contracts for the next few years.
Well, the basic problem is their new owner is like the Jerry Jones of the NBA. And they extended their GM. What they need to do is find a decent coach to start with.
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Yes, and most people loved the Isiah-Worm-Laimbeer Pistons.
The Bad Boys are my favorite NBA team of all time. Even the 2004 Pistons don't stand up. Should have been 3 straight. Still ticked about the phantom foul on Kareem by Laimbeer. Even more ticked about Rodman shooting the only pull-up jumper of his career. On a fast break with an open lane. But I digress. That team was the forerunner of 'switchables' and really set the bar for a completely interchangeable rotation. As well as team defense. In their heyday, I would sit with my friends in a bar and we would make bets about how few points they would give up in the 4th quarter. It would be tight through 3 and they would apply a stranglehold in the 4th. A joy to watch.
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I am, and have no problem admitting it. Though I don't care about the NBA and won't be watching, but I would like to see Miami win.
Same here. If not for LeBron and the Heat, I might not even know the NBA exists. I still honestly don't know what is not to like about the Heat, and LBj specifically.
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It is good to see a few support the Heat, who many hate. The BS about the Heat/Wade being the worse whiners in the league is a crock. Last night's game was clear evidence as the Bulls were flooding the floor with whining. It is part of the game and it is up to the league and refs to clean it up if it is a problem. Cleaning it up would be difficult unless it became a zero tolerance policy, and then you would have half a season of slow games with tons of FT's until that message was received by all.
At any rate, I expect the next game to be very closely called. Likely the Bulls will come out very aggresively and the mugging will then ensue. Hopefully, it will be good theatre.
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Me, and anyone who is a fan of great basketball. What the Bulls have to do to win this series is the opposite of great basketball.
In other words, you weren't a fan of the 2012-13 Marquette basketball team's style of play.
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In other words, you weren't a fan of the 2012-13 Marquette basketball team's style of play.
Exactly. He loved UCLA in the Wooden era, Indiana in 75-76 and Kentucky in 2011-12. HATED it when Villanova upset Georgetown and Jimmy V took down Houston.
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In other words, you weren't a fan of the 2012-13 Marquette basketball team's style of play.
I wouldn't have watched them much if they weren't my team.
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Exactly. He loved UCLA in the Wooden era, Indiana in 75-76 and Kentucky in 2011-12. HATED it when Villanova upset Georgetown and Jimmy V took down Houston.
So if that is in fact true, what's wrong with that?
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Exactly. He loved UCLA in the Wooden era, Indiana in 75-76 and Kentucky in 2011-12. HATED it when Villanova upset Georgetown and Jimmy V took down Houston.
I was rooting for Houston against NC State.
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I was rooting for Houston against NC State.
As was I, and im sure many many others. Phi slamma jamma was a thing.
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So if that is in fact true, what's wrong with that?
There's nothing WRONG with always rooting for Goliath. I just think most people without a horse in the race root for David. Whenever I've been at an NCAA tournament game the fans of the two teams not playing have sided with the underdog, and the bigger the underdog the more enthusiastic their support.
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People are loving the Bulls because they are the underdog and play hard. But they beat a more talented, and disinterested bunch in the Nets...that was hardly a good basketball series.
A Heat v. anyone out of the west is the Finals series I am rooting for.
They need to play hard and stop the unnecessary physical play only when they play the Heat. It may win them a game, but it will not win them the series. All the physical play did was wake the sleeping giant. Bye-bye Bulls!
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There's nothing WRONG with always rooting for Goliath. I just think most people without a horse in the race root for David. Whenever I've been at an NCAA tournament game the fans of the two teams not playing have sided with the underdog, and the bigger the underdog the more enthusiastic their support.
Until two underdogs end up playing each other, then nobody cares. We like some upsets, but most don't want to see the results of several upsets.
BTW, I am not anti-underdog. I am anti-underdog when their style is contingent upon something other than good quality basketball. That is what I see in the Bulls v. Heat series. If the Heat face Golden State in the finals and lose because GS runs up and down the floor and shoots lights out, then so be it. I would root for that.
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Until two underdogs end up playing each other, then nobody cares. We like some upsets, but most don't want to see the results of several upsets.
BTW, I am not anti-underdog. I am anti-underdog when their style is contingent upon something other than good quality basketball. That is what I see in the Bulls v. Heat series. If the Heat face Golden State in the finals and lose because GS runs up and down the floor and shoots lights out, then so be it. I would root for that.
So, scoring a lot of points is "good quality basketball" but playing tough, physical defense is not?
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So, scoring a lot of points is "good quality basketball" but playing tough, physical defense is not?
Yup. That ”tough, physical defense” you are touting is really alot of clutching and grabbing, and hard fouls. That isn't good defense or good bball IMO.
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Yup. That ”tough, physical defense” you are touting is really alot of clutching and grabbing, and hard fouls. That isn't good defense or good bball IMO.
Agreed. I loved the competitiveness of the old Big East, but by the end it became hardwood rugby. It can be tough to watch at times.
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Yup. That ”tough, physical defense” you are touting is really alot of clutching and grabbing, and hard fouls. That isn't good defense or good bball IMO.
Jimmy grabbing LeBron around the neck, Belinelli throttling Wade with no attempt at the ball and Anderson body-checking Robinson 35 feet from the basket are not examples "tough, physical defense." It is thuggery, it is boring and it is not what basketball is supposed to be.
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Jeez, did you guys grow up playing soccer in France or were you all born in 1997 and never saw what an actual "hard fould" is.
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Sorry. "Hard foul"
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Grew up playing and watching plenty of Football. If u want to see guys get beat up, watch a Bears v Dolphins game.
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So, scoring a lot of points is "good quality basketball" but playing tough, physical defense is not?
I don't disagree completely, but there is a fine line between "tough, physical" D and getting unnecessarily physical. This isn't football, and thanks god it's not. You're not supposed to be able to play D with your hands, and the game has slowed allowed that to happen.
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Grew up playing and watching plenty of Football. If u want to see guys get beat up, watch a Bears v Dolphins game.
To each their own. Personally, as a child of the 90s, I don't think quality basketball and physical play are mutually exclusive. The NBA's rise as a global brand was built off of intense, physical basketball that got personal during the play-offs, and I guess I long for those days. I'd love to see a freak like Lebron driving the lane like MJ or Isiah Thomas used to, knowing damn well a hit is coming from Patrick Ewing, Rodman, Malone, Alonzo Mourning, Barkley, Anthony Mason, Reggie Miller... Or getting assaulted the way MJ and Shaq did, yet still making it look pretty or easy.
As a Heat fan didn't you enjoy a Pat Reilly coached team's physical style? Those Heat-Knicks games were great, or even Heat-Bulls in the early rounds of the play-offs.
Either way, I know times have changed, but I thought the refs were out of control last game, not the players. It's the play-offs.
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There's nothing WRONG with always rooting for Goliath. I just think most people without a horse in the race root for David. Whenever I've been at an NCAA tournament game the fans of the two teams not playing have sided with the underdog, and the bigger the underdog the more enthusiastic their support.
In the NCAA's though, many of the "neutral" observers for a given game are fans of one of the teams that will play the winner of the game that they're watching, so they naturally root for the underdog so that their team gets an easier opponent in the next round. That's why they get so into it (besides the natural pulling for David thing).
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To each their own. Personally, as a child of the 90s, I don't think quality basketball and physical play are mutually exclusive. The NBA's rise as a global brand was built off of intense, physical basketball that got personal during the play-offs, and I guess I long for those days. I'd love to see a freak like Lebron driving the lane like MJ or Isiah Thomas used to, knowing damn well a hit is coming from Patrick Ewing, Rodman, Malone, Alonzo Mourning, Barkley, Anthony Mason, Reggie Miller... Or getting assaulted the way MJ and Shaq did, yet still making it look pretty or easy.
I think you are exaggerating history a bit here. Was it more physical....I guess. But you are making it out to be something more than it really was.
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I think you are exaggerating history a bit here. Was it more physical....I guess. But you are making it out to be something more than it really was.
Maybe I am exaggerating a bit, but if I'm exaggerating the level of physicality in the bulls-pistons or bulls-knicks, or the "Jordan Rules" or "hack-a-Shaq" then surely those who are acting like today's Bulls are the dirtiest, most violent team around are either grossly over exagerating, or ignorant to what actual hard fouls look like. That's what I was responding to initially.
I'll save you the time of posting 200 youtube examples to remind you of the way it used to be relative to today's flopping era. Shaq used to get mauled and had to deal with it because he was the biggest, most freakish guy on the court and just swatted guys off him like flies, even though they were mugging him; think if Lebron had to deal with that simply because he's bigger and stronger than everyone else.
The Piston's had an explicit rule of "No Lay-ups." (I'm sure many other teams did in the playoffs too). If you came in the paint you were going down from a hit, unlike today where you're going down from the slightest contact in an effort to bamboozle the ref into calling a foul. Jordan's quote from an interview a few months back around his birthday was that "if they played today, they'd be flagrant 2's." In the not so distant past, today's flagrant 2's were regular fouls. Am I or Jordan exaggerating with that assertion?
Maybe Jordan and Pippen whined after they got laid out, but at least it warranted flailing your arms and looking at the ref in disgust, unlike today...
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Maybe I am exaggerating a bit, but if I'm exaggerating the level of physicality in the bulls-pistons or bulls-knicks, or the "Jordan Rules" or "hack-a-Shaq" then surely those who are acting like today's Bulls are the dirtiest, most violent team around are either grossly over exagerating, or ignorant to what actual hard fouls look like. That's what I was responding to initially.
I'll save you the time of posting 200 youtube examples to remind you of the way it used to be relative to today's flopping era. Shaq used to get mauled and had to deal with it because he was the biggest, most freakish guy on the court and just swatted guys off him like flies, even though they were mugging him; think if Lebron had to deal with that simply because he's bigger and stronger than everyone else.
The Piston's had an explicit rule of "No Lay-ups." (I'm sure many other teams did in the playoffs too). If you came in the paint you were going down from a hit, unlike today where you're going down from the slightest contact in an effort to bamboozle the ref into calling a foul. Jordan's quote from an interview a few months back around his birthday was that "if they played today, they'd be flagrant 2's." In the not so distant past, today's flagrant 2's were regular fouls. Am I or Jordan exaggerating with that assertion?
Maybe Jordan and Pippen whined after they got laid out, but at least it warranted flailing your arms and looking at the ref in disgust, unlike today...
Absolutely nobody in this thread has said, or implied that the Bulls are "the dirtiest or most violent team around". Keep torching those straw men.
Lebron does deal with physical play because he is bigger and stronger. See the Bulls v. Heat game that ended the Heat streak in the regular season. He doesn't get it as much as Shaq because he can hit free throws.
You and Jordan are both exaggerating. "In my day it was so much harder." You sound like a grumpy old man.
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Absolutely nobody in this thread has said, or implied that the Bulls are "the dirtiest or most violent team around". Keep torching those straw men.
You and Jordan are both exaggerating. "In my day it was so much harder." You sound like a grumpy old man.
Yeah, but people on this thread, you included, were crying about the Bulls "clutching and grabbing, and hard fouls." One person went even went as far that the Bulls' C-team they are trotting out was using "thuggery" against the big, bad defending champs. That's why I asked if you were from France, because I find your notion of hard fouls to be comical.
If Jordan and I sound like grumpy old men, you guys sound like little girls.
Yup. That ”tough, physical defense” you are touting is really alot of clutching and grabbing, and hard fouls. That isn't good defense or good bball IMO.
I don't find flopping and theatrics every time there's contact to be good basketball.
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This series, another example of why the NCAA is a crapshoot. Miami loses game 1, three straight since then. Can't have an off day in the NCAAs, even if you are the better team.
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Does anyone have a picture of Wade walking through the tunnel at the UC tonight? They showed him on tv walking with an assistant/bodyguard, wearing a polka dot suit with super tight pants that were about 8 inches too short. If that's the new style, I'll stay unstylish, thanks.
Never mind, found it.
(http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/519186e3eab8ea1c64000005-789-444-618-/5-13-2013%207-12-09%20pm-1.jpg)
(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/519186feecad04d169000017-789-444/5-13-2013%207-11-49%20pm-1.jpg)
http://www.businessinsider.com/dwyane-wade-wore-a-polka-dot-suit-with-capris-to-tonights-playoff-game-2013-5
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BTW, if I am truly the first person to call out the Bulls for their strategy in this series, I should be getting recruiting calls from ESPN shortly. Plenty of their talking heads were jumping all up in my bandwagon today.
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This series, another example of why the NCAA is a crapshoot. Miami loses game 1, three straight since then. Can't have an off day in the NCAAs, even if you are the better team.
Do you honestly believe the Bulls would have won game 1 if it had been an elimination game? Please. The Heat didn't show any sense of urgency because there was no need to.
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Do you honestly believe the Bulls would have won game 1 if it had been an elimination game? Please. The Heat didn't show any sense of urgency because there was no need to.
This is true, and the Heat are showing that now. At the same time, one game is one game in the NCAA, and if you have a bad night, you're toast.
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Maybe I am exaggerating a bit, but if I'm exaggerating the level of physicality in the bulls-pistons or bulls-knicks, or the "Jordan Rules" or "hack-a-Shaq" then surely those who are acting like today's Bulls are the dirtiest, most violent team around are either grossly over exagerating, or ignorant to what actual hard fouls look like. That's what I was responding to initially.
I'll save you the time of posting 200 youtube examples to remind you of the way it used to be relative to today's flopping era. Shaq used to get mauled and had to deal with it because he was the biggest, most freakish guy on the court and just swatted guys off him like flies, even though they were mugging him; think if Lebron had to deal with that simply because he's bigger and stronger than everyone else.
The Piston's had an explicit rule of "No Lay-ups." (I'm sure many other teams did in the playoffs too). If you came in the paint you were going down from a hit, unlike today where you're going down from the slightest contact in an effort to bamboozle the ref into calling a foul. Jordan's quote from an interview a few months back around his birthday was that "if they played today, they'd be flagrant 2's." In the not so distant past, today's flagrant 2's were regular fouls. Am I or Jordan exaggerating with that assertion?
Yes. You are both exaggerating. MJ is just doing what he normally does and inflates his own ego. They weren't today's flagrant 2s.
And outside of MJ, those were really sh*tty years for the NBA because of that style of play. You may not like the whining and the flailing around of arms, but its because it is a much more open and enjoyable game now.
If Jordan and I sound like grumpy old men, you guys sound like little girls.
My God really??? Are you 13 years old?? Are you questioning people's manhood now??? ::)
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Does anyone have a picture of Wade walking through the tunnel at the UC tonight? They showed him on tv walking with an assistant/bodyguard, wearing a polka dot suit with super tight pants that were about 8 inches too short. If that's the new style, I'll stay unstylish, thanks.
Never mind, found it.
(http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/519186e3eab8ea1c64000005-789-444-618-/5-13-2013%207-12-09%20pm-1.jpg)
(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/519186feecad04d169000017-789-444/5-13-2013%207-11-49%20pm-1.jpg)
http://www.businessinsider.com/dwyane-wade-wore-a-polka-dot-suit-with-capris-to-tonights-playoff-game-2013-5
Is wade coming out? (no teal necessary
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Do you honestly believe the Bulls would have won game 1 if it had been an elimination game? Please. The Heat didn't show any sense of urgency because there was no need to.
Are you suggesting the Heat didn't try to win the game? Are you also suggesting that in other examples where a team has lost a game or two in a 7 game series that it happens, quite frequently....point remains, NCAA is a crapshoot and it isn't for a longer series.
One bad game in the NCAA...bye bye. Doesn't matter if you are the better team, which is why the best team often doesn't win the tournament.
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Are you suggesting the Heat didn't try to win the game?
I am suggesting that Miami didn't have the urgency and sharpness after coming off a crappy Milwaukee series and a week off.
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Are you suggesting the Heat didn't try to win the game? Are you also suggesting that in other examples where a team has lost a game or two in a 7 game series that it happens, quite frequently....point remains, NCAA is a crapshoot and it isn't for a longer series.
One bad game in the NCAA...bye bye. Doesn't matter if you are the better team, which is why the best team often doesn't win the tournament.
I don't believe it! Chicos is faking ignorance in an attempt to start a message board fight!
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I am suggesting that Miami didn't have the urgency and sharpness after coming off a crappy Milwaukee series and a week off.
That may be true and in a 7 game series, whether you don't have the same urgency or whether you just have a bad shooting day, you can recover. In the NCAAs, you cannot. Crapshoot.
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That may be true and in a 7 game series, whether you don't have the same urgency or whether you just have a bad shooting day, you can recover. In the NCAAs, you cannot. Crapshoot.
You won't get a week in between opponents in the NCAA tournament.
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The best regular season team doesn't win the championship every time in any league. Of course, nobody calls the Super Bowl or Word Series a crapshoot.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5075 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5075)
According to that article (there's a variety of other articles that have similar numbers):
NBA - 50%
NCAAB - 33%
MLB - 29%
NFL - 24%
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In the last 25 years, the NCAA tournament has been won by a:
#1 seed -17 times
2 seed - 3 times
3 seed - 4 times
4 seed - 1 time
5-16 seed - 0 times
In addition, a #16 seed has never beaten a #1 seed in God knows how many tries. If this is a crapshoot, the dice are loaded.
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The best regular season team doesn't win the championship every time in any league. Of course, nobody calls the Super Bowl or Word Series a crapshoot.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5075 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5075)
According to that article (there's a variety of other articles that have similar numbers):
NBA - 50%
NCAAB - 33%
MLB - 29%
NFL - 24%
And since the inception of the President's Trophy (awarded to the best regular season NHL team), that team has won Lord Stanley's Cup a whopping 7 times in 26 tries (just under 27%). Crapshoots everywhere you look.
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And since the inception of the President's Trophy (awarded to the best regular season NHL team), that team has won Lord Stanley's Cup a whopping 7 times in 26 tries (just under 27%). Crapshoots everywhere you look.
And an 8 seed won last year.
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In the last 25 years, the NCAA tournament has been won by a:
#1 seed -17 times
2 seed - 3 times
3 seed - 4 times
4 seed - 1 time
5-16 seed - 0 times
In addition, a #16 seed has never beaten a #1 seed in God knows how many tries. If this is a crapshoot, the dice are loaded.
Last I checked, a #1 seed is shared by 4 teams, same for a #2 seed, and a number 3 seed, etc, etc.
So being a number 1 seed should mean you are one of the top 4 teams, not necessarily the best team. Being a 2 seed would mean you are one of the best 8 teams, not the 2nd best team. So on and so forth.
Best team usually doesn't win, and yes it is crapshoot. It isn't called the world's biggest crapshoot for nothing, because that's exactly what it is.
If you played the NBA playoffs 10 times this year how many different champions would emerge? 2?
If you played the NCAA tournament 10 times, how many different tournament champions would emerge? 7? 8? 9?
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/college/2013/03/ncaa-tournament-built-gambling-not-finding-best-team
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Last I checked, a #1 seed is shared by 4 teams, same for a #2 seed, and a number 3 seed, etc, etc.
Yes, but 68 teams play for the NCAA championship. In the professional sports it's 16 or less.
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If you played the NBA playoffs 10 times this year how many different champions would emerge? 2?
If you played the NCAA tournament 10 times, how many different tournament champions would emerge? 7? 8? 9?
This year you could hold the NBA playoffs 10 times and Miami would win it all 10 times. When there's not a head and shoulders top team maybe you get 3 or 4 (out of 16).
This year's NCAA, Louisville probably wins it 5 or 6 times out of 10, Michigan twice, Kansas and Syracuse once. That's 4 (maybe 5) out of 64. Last year's Kentucky team, UNLV in maybe 91, IU in 76, most of those Wooden teams and too many others to mention win 9 or 10 times out of 10.
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Yep, the NCAA tourney is the biggest crapshoot in major sports!!.....except for the MLB, NFL, and NHL playoffs which are all statiscally bigger crapshoots....doh.
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And an 8 seed won last year.
[/quote
Now that's a crapshoot!]
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This year you could hold the NBA playoffs 10 times and Miami would win it all 10 times. When there's not a head and shoulders top team maybe you get 3 or 4 (out of 16).
This year's NCAA, Louisville probably wins it 5 or 6 times out of 10, Michigan twice, Kansas and Syracuse once. That's 4 (maybe 5) out of 64. Last year's Kentucky team, UNLV in maybe 91, IU in 76, most of those Wooden teams and too many others to mention win 9 or 10 times out of 10.
I think Indiana will give Miami fits, but we will see. Wade is hurt and Indiana will not back down from them.
That being said, most of your examples are the exceptions (UCLA, Kentucky, UNLV), not the rule. The UCLA dynasty will never happen again. UNLV in '91 actually didn't win the title, which is entirely the point I'm making. They got upset by Duke 79-77. In a 5 game series or 7 game series, no way UNLV loses, but in a one game series anything can happen. It's a crapshoot....the biggest in all of sports.
The President's Cup Trophy is the worst of the examples. Just because you have the best record doesn't mean you are the best team, so much of it is with scheduling. If your division sucks and you stockpile wins against that division, that doesn't mean when you get to the playoffs and play the better teams night in and night out that you aren't exposed. Regardless, the top 4 teams in the NBA, NHL and MLB probably win their championship much more often than the top 4 teams in the NCAA tournament (the #1 seeds). Top 8 teams in those sports probably win 95% of the time (LA Kings last year were an exception to the rule). Top 16 teams have to win it 100% of the time in those sports by the nature of the number of teams that get in, yet we still see teams outside a top 4 seed (= top 16 teams) winning the NCAA or at least playing for it...Butler, etc.
Crapshoot...biggest in all of sports.
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I think Indiana will give Miami fits, but we will see. Wade is hurt and Indiana will not back down from them.
That being said, most of your examples are the exceptions (UCLA, Kentucky, UNLV), not the rule. The UCLA dynasty will never happen again. UNLV in '91 actually didn't win the title, which is entirely the point I'm making. They got upset by Duke 79-77. In a 5 game series or 7 game series, no way UNLV loses, but in a one game series anything can happen. It's a crapshoot....the biggest in all of sports.
The President's Cup Trophy is the worst of the examples. Just because you have the best record doesn't mean you are the best team, so much of it is with scheduling. If your division sucks and you stockpile wins against that division, that doesn't mean when you get to the playoffs and play the better teams night in and night out that you aren't exposed. Regardless, the top 4 teams in the NBA, NHL and MLB probably win their championship much more often than the top 4 teams in the NCAA tournament (the #1 seeds). Top 8 teams in those sports probably win 95% of the time (LA Kings last year were an exception to the rule). Top 16 teams have to win it 100% of the time in those sports by the nature of the number of teams that get in, yet we still see teams outside a top 4 seed (= top 16 teams) winning the NCAA or at least playing for it...Butler, etc.
Crapshoot...biggest in all of sports.
A champion is the best team when it matters most. In the end, that's what it's all about.
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A champion is the best team when it matters most. In the end, that's what it's all about.
Yeah, last time I checked the President is the most popular candidate that first Tuesday in November. Who was the "best" (preferred) guy in August, September or October doesn't matter.
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Yeah, last time I checked the President is the most popular candidate that first Tuesday in November. Who was the "best" (preferred) guy in August, September or October doesn't matter.
And most people know that the best guy for the job isn't the POTUS....the best guy is usually someone smart enough not even to run and is doing something else in life.
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meanwhile... jimmy having another good night. lots of praise.
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I think Jimmy will be MU's best player in he league once Wade starts to slow down (he already has), with Wes a close second.
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I think Jimmy will be MU's best player in he league once Wade starts to slow down (he already has), with Wes a close second.
I was talking about this with my father the other night. He seems to think Jimmy is on par with Wade already, since Dwyane is slowing down now and Jimmy is on the rise these last few months. He's not there yet, but soon he very well could be.
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I was talking about this with my father the other night. He seems to think Jimmy is on par with Wade already, since Dwyane is slowing down now and Jimmy is on the rise these last few months. He's not there yet, but soon he very well could be.
I think Jimmy is getting close, but Dwyane showed at the end that he is still one of the best players in the league when he is on his game. When his knees are right, he is still a top 5/10 player in the league. Jimmy is starting to develop a really nice jump shot, and if he can continue to hone that he will be a top 50/75 player in the league next year. But, like I said, still a ways away from eclipsing Dwayne as the best alum.
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I was talking about this with my father the other night. He seems to think Jimmy is on par with Wade already, since Dwyane is slowing down now and Jimmy is on the rise these last few months. He's not there yet, but soon he very well could be.
Whoa.
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I love JFB as much as the next guy, but let's slow down a bit comparing him to DWade. Wade is still the best SG in the NBA and a top 10 player in the NBA, while Jimmy was probably somewhere around a top 75 player this year. Wes Matthews is a better comparison right now. However, Jimmy has a lot of tools (length, athleticism, will to play D, intangibles if you believe in them) to continue to get better. But, he'll need to continue to get better and more assertive on the offensive end if he wants to be considered a top 25/40 borderline all-star type guy.
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A champion is the best team when it matters most. In the end, that's what it's all about.
And Buster Douglas was the best fighter in the world. LOL...because he was the "champion" after one miracle fight.
I'm liking my "Indiana will give Miami fits" prediction even more.
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And Buster Douglas was the best fighter in the world. LOL...because he was the "champion" after one miracle fight.
Heavyweight championship fights must be crapshoots. They should be best of 7 from now on.
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Heavyweight championship fights must be crapshoots. They should be best of 7 from now on.
That's the point, on any given night the best can lose just like the NCAA tournament, or in boxing, or in the NFL, or in college football.
Don't worry, Miami will win the NBA title 10 times out of 10 times...right Lenny. ;D
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I was talking about this with my father the other night. He seems to think Jimmy is on par with Wade already, since Dwyane is slowing down now and Jimmy is on the rise these last few months. He's not there yet, but soon he very well could be.
Jimmy who?