Is this fair?

[GGGG]

Sultan, no need to be nasty.  But it is fair to say that a notable and ever increasing number of universities are out on the fringe.  Places like Berkeley for example are not institutions where I'd write a tuition check on behalf of my son or daughter.  There are many other examples.  I chose the most extreme simply to make a point.

And I used "most" to make a point.

And do you have evidence that it's "ever increasing?"  Because there has been a quite a bit of discussion on campuses about how this movement goes against what colleges and universities were set up to do.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I must admit, however, that in my opinion this principle is becoming remarkably one-sided on college campuses.  Some people are being "encouraged" to move outside their comfort zones, while others are fighting to ensure that the entire college campus becomes one massive comfort zone (aka "safe space").

See, working in academia, I haven't found this to be true. The term "safe space" has been corrupted so much that people don't actually know what it means any more. All a safe space means is that language and actions that are racist, homophobic, transphobic, sexist, theist, etc. will be challenged. Not shut down but challenged. As they should be.

The real reason it seems like universities are "one sided" IMHO is because the political spectrum has shifted massively to the left as MU69 pointed out. The younger generation as a whole is much more liberal than the generation before it. (Just like that generation was more liberal than generation before it). So while Boomer and Gen Xers might consider themselves mildly conservative, most millenials and Igens think of them as on the fringe right. Students don't go to university and become liberal. They are already liberal (because all of their friends are) but they might not be showing that to their parents until they move away.

Sorry if this is violating the politics rule. I think I toed the line but will accept my 30 lashes if I didn't.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Still's daughter would be uncomfortable as he stated a few posts above (or below as I have most recent post first). As for me the Marquette I knew is long gone. Most of my class mates were pretty much open minded but to the center of most issued; but the center back in my day is way to the right of center today. Most of us hardly knew any gay much less a trans person. I am sure there were some but back then it was well hidden. I can't imagine what my grand daughter will face when she is in college, fall of 2029.

I imagine that many if not most daughters would be uncomfortable at this time. My point was that I think a higher percentage of the sons would be uncomfortable.

Isn't this all a good thing? You said you and you friends were open minded, so I take that to mean that you would have been accepting of trans, lesbian, and gay individuals but because of the times most of them stayed hidden. We have a long way to go but we are getting to a point where they don't have to be hidden anymore. By the time your grand daughter gets to campus, she might not have to worry about being discriminated against no matter if shes a woman, trans, lesbian, bi, cisgendered, or straight.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Let me try this another way TAMU.  Let's make the couple at the end of the couch an adult and a 10 year old.  How about a human and an animal?  There is a natural order and there is a line. We in society have a right to demand and expect that.  Somewhere.  Now in those cases we're talking about crimes.  So everything isn't okay.

First off. Who says being gay is against the natural order? There have been gay men and women since the beginning of time. They didn't choose to be gay, they were born that way and they were born naturally. Even animals are the same way. I have a dog and he will stick his dong into anything, female dog, male dog, cat, duck. I don't really think there's an argument for gays not being natural.

The child and animal examples are reducto ad absurdem but I will bite. An animal cannot consent to sexual activity with a human. A child cannot consent to sexual activity with an adult. Ergo, those actions are never acceptable and always a crime. I do agree to a point that those people didn't choose to be the way they are either but acting on this impulses harms the other person and that cannot be reconciled.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So I can see where this is all potentially headed.  My thanks to you for a truly stimulating and interesting conversation.  I think I really learned some things, always good.  I hope I treated all of you with courtesy and respect. 

I appreciate to conversations too Glow. We need people willing to ask the awkward questions that they honestly want to know the answer too.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-due-process-lawsuits-increased-dramatically-after-education-dept-overreach/article/2600819

Repeal the DCL

Hmmm, the government clarifies the standards for responding to sexual assault cases. The amount of cases goes up. I wonder if the amount of complaints will go up too? 

[Galway Eagle]

For the record many of you are probably thinking of living together in freshman dorms the way that it was as recently as when I was in school in that it's one small room and two small closets. However, newer dorms are pretty much apartments and I know loads of coed friends that live together just fine.

I know I'm one of the more shall we say "modern" posters on here but even I would say hell no to coed living my Frosh and soph years in OD and Schroeder. I do think that's a bit extreme and that everybody deserves a "space" perhaps a questionnaire sent with the acceptance letter saying "would you be willing to live with a (insert here) individual could solve most problems as that leaves it up to the choice of the ADULT 18yr old.

[Jay Bee]

First off. Who says being gay is against the natural order? There have been gay men and women since the beginning of time. They didn't choose to be gay, they were born that way and they were born naturally.

There are some who simply choose to be gay. It's purely a decision.

[Jay Bee]

See, working in academia, I haven't found this to be true. The term "safe space" has been corrupted so much that people don't actually know what it means any more. All a safe space means is that language and actions that are racist, homophobic, transphobic, sexist, theist, etc. will be challenged. Not shut down but challenged. As they should be.

I disagree. Safe spaces in action are generally places where any kind of "bad talk" is frowned upon and not welcomed. E.g., shut down. In addition, they are often geared toward the lgbt, etc, etc, etc whatever the right acronym is now... essentially schools are funding programs to create friends to the lgbt, etc etc kids on campus.

It's not simply, "we challenge racist commentary here!" That should be everywhere.

[reinko]

How about we try to bring some perspective to this.  Some rough googling puts the % of transgender people @ .3% of the US population.  with roughly 13 million kiddos going to 4 year colleges, and for the sake of argument, say around 60% either commute or are part-time, while 40% on campus, leaving us about 5.2 million kids are on campus.  Assuming most campuses require 1st and 2nd year to live in dorms, so let's cut  in half, to put 2.6.  Now again, this doesn't take into account colleges that don't have dorms, colleges that only have single sex dorms, campuses that historically have much higher commuter rates...so for the sake of the argument, 2 million left.

Now of course, a certain % of students also pick their own roommates, I dunno, 40%?  My epic back of the napkin math has around 1.2 million, who are randomly assigned college roommates.  Using the .3 of 1% Stat above,  we are talking about 3,600 transgender students in college who may be randomly assigned a roommate, Roughly 1 per every college in the nation, per year.

Y'all are talking like transgender students are invading college dorms by the millions.  In my experience with this community, which albeit is limited, they are seeking to be accepted, respected, and safe, especially in a place where they choose to live and live with.

[mu03eng]

I'm curious...when you refer to gender less in shared spaces and reference dorms, are you referring to individual dorm rooms?  I think that would be pushing the limits of the definition of shared spaces.

I suppose that we can say that all should aspire to get over personal hang-ups about sex and gender - I'm not sure that I agree, but it's a legitimate debate - but where does individual comfort come into play?  I'm sending a daughter off to college in the fall. I'll admit I would have issues if she was asked to room with a biological male.  Perhaps that's narrow minded of me, but it's true.  What's more, I can assure you she would also feel uncomfortable with that. For those who think it should be a non-issue, where does her comfort level come into play?  Or do we just conclude that she needs to me more open minded and accepting?

I would consider it a goal to make dorms genderless, but it's an evolution not a switch you flip. It starts with a generation being raised from the start as genderless (unisex bathrooms etc) and eventually the grow up without our hang ups about being around the opposite gender or making a big deal about it.

[mu03eng]

There are some who simply choose to be gay. It's purely a decision.

A) Wut B) evidence? C) even if true so what?

[Jay Bee]

It's obvious and you know it. "So what" means you're wrong. Why did you tell a fib?

[mu03eng]

It's obvious and you know it. "So what" means you're wrong. Why did you tell a fib?

Apparently I'm an idiot because not only is it not obvious to me I can't fathom a possible reason to choose such a thing

[Jay Bee]

Apparently I'm an idiot because not only is it not obvious to me I can't fathom a possible reason to choose such a thing

Why not? Is it so awful in your mind that you believe no one would choose to be gay?

[mu03eng]

Why not? Is it so awful in your mind that you believe no one would choose to be gay?

No, because I can't fathom anyone choosing any sexuality....you just have a sexuality, there is no choice to be made.

Again, show me a single person who has chosen to be gay

[Jay Bee]

No, because I can't fathom anyone choosing any sexuality....you just have a sexuality, there is no choice to be made.

Again, show me a single person who has chosen to be gay

There are many who have chosen to be gay. You get embraced for it. In today's world, you can find much support.

Do you believe no one has simply chosen to be gay? Of course you don't. Admit it and realize I'm correct

[Galway Eagle]

There are many who have chosen to be gay. You get embraced for it. In today's world, you can find much support.

Do you believe no one has simply chosen to be gay? Of course you don't. Admit it and realize I'm correct

But at no point have you offered any substantive proof. If we were in a discussion currently about MU hoops you'd be the guy that you always condescendingly talk down to about stats and figures. 

[rocket surgeon]

But at no point have you offered any substantive proof. If we were in a discussion currently about MU hoops you'd be the guy that you always condescendingly talk down to about stats and figures.

what is bisexuality?  well let's see...who do i want to be with tonight?  who looks good at closing time?

[rocket surgeon]

what is bisexuality?  well let's see...who do i want to be with tonight?  who looks good at closing time?

ann heche was with a woman for quite a while before she married a man

http://www.celebitchy.com/10740/anne_heche_says_she_changed_her_mind_about_being_gay_compared_it_to_opening_doors/

[mu03eng]

There are many who have chosen to be gay. You get embraced for it. In today's world, you can find much support.

Do you believe no one has simply chosen to be gay? Of course you don't. Admit it and realize I'm correct

I'm not sure what dope you're smoking tonight but I 100% believe no one chooses to be gay just like I haven't chosen to be straight....i am what I am

[mu03eng]

ann heche was with a woman for quite a while before she married a man

http://www.celebitchy.com/10740/anne_heche_says_she_changed_her_mind_about_being_gay_compared_it_to_opening_doors/

And? She's bi-sexual, so what? Has no bearing on the choice discussion

[Jay Bee]

I'm not sure what dope you're smoking tonight but I 100% believe no one chooses to be gay just like I haven't chosen to be straight....i am what I am

You're complete nuts

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No one chooses to be gay. Or straight. Or bi. Some people may claim to be gay (or straight) when they are not. But that doesn't make them gay (or straight).

[B. McBannerson]

To the rules regulating high school sports in Connecticut, nobody.

To the basic rules of fair play, the athlete whose sex is 100% male and chose to compete against people who's sex is 100% female.

Well said.

Definition of male = XY.  Definition of female = XX.


For those saying it is just high school sports, what are you insinuating?  High school sports is often the last bastion of competition athletes have.  Even those that are lucky enough to play in college sports know the importance high school sports played in their lives.  One of my kids played for a state championship and it was incredible the community, school, student and media support during that endeavor.

This topic is a tough one, but I would challenge anyone here to dispute that on a physiological level males are stronger, faster, have more bone and muscle density.  This is a scientific fact.  As such, a competition that pits females with females based on true physiological definition of XX = female should be the baseline requirement. 

The winner of the race that started this thread.  The winning times would have finished dead last for the boys events in the 100 and 200.  We are supposed to also be supporting opportunities for women, and by having a male take up a spot as a female, that eliminates an opportunity.