OT: Univ. of MN Football Program in Serious Trouble

[eagles11]

From the Minneapolis Star Tribune this afternoon, the allegations of sexual assault against four players from Minnesota's football team are not only valid but backed by DNA and cell phone video evidence. The story is below:

http://www.startribune.com/gophers/story/1305344.html

You hate to see stories like this and immediately pass judgement, but the evidence appears damning towards CB Dominic Jones and at the very least damaging to the other three players involved.

Read the below report of the incident at your own peril. Don't do it prior to or immediately after eating:

http://media.startribune.com/smedia/2007/07/16/16/testingJuly-16-2007.source.prod_affiliate.2.pdf

[MUsoxfan]

Yeah, that dude's in some serious trouble

[Sir Lawrence]

I'm always amazed at the ability to recover "deleted" material from any electronic recording device. 

[ToddPacker]

Unless that memory is actually overwritten, it is still on there, just not accessible to the ordinary user but available for overwriting.  On a storage device that can store a ton of data, the average user may never be able to completely delete the information.

[Eye]

Wow. We'd like to thank the defendant for his non-participation in society for about the next 15 years.

[augoman]

interestingly enough, this is very reminiscent of the gophers bball team visiting madison many years ago..., 4 players charged w/ raping an 18 yr old student in their madison hotel room after a game.  they skated after lengthy trial during which the p.c. jury decided it was the girl's fault for drinking so much in their room, and she should have expected what happened to happen.

[Avenue Commons]

interestingly enough, this is very reminiscent of the gophers bball team visiting madison many years ago..., 4 players charged w/ raping an 18 yr old student in their madison hotel room after a game.  they skated after lengthy trial during which the p.c. jury decided it was the girl's fault for drinking so much in their room, and she should have expected what happened to happen.

Not to get into a political debate, but what does political correctness (PC) have to do with it? If anything, faulting the girl is the exact opposite of political correctness.

Stories like this are really sickening. I hope that the victims in these cases get the help and support they need.

[augoman]

you're right 'AveCom', I didn't present the whole picture..., but suffice it to say there were no consequences/responsibilities for their actions, and, apparently, at 18 consenting adults can do whatever to whomever- the question was one of consent.  They walked because she was not forced to their room.

I further second your hopes for proper help for the girl and severe punishment for all others involved.

the continued lack of respect for other human beings is a symptom of the death of our culture/society..., of our 'zietgeist', according to Toynbee.

[MilTown]

WTF is wrong with people and our society that brings people to commit these acts! Stories like this are way too frequent. I hope they throw the book at these guys with max sentences.

[ChicosBailBonds]

WTF is wrong with people and our society that brings people to commit these acts! Stories like this are way too frequent. I hope they throw the book at these guys with max sentences.

I agree and at the same time why are these young people (i.e the victims so stupid).  8 drinks in an hour time which equated to a .3 alcohol level. 

Alcohol + young people + after midnight almost always equals trouble.  I'm not trying to be prude here, I certainly drank my fair share but Good Lord people are stupid.  Don't put yourself in that situation.

[spiral97]

Alcohol + young people + after midnight almost always equals trouble.

Actually, any two of the three almost always equals trouble.  We can't control what age people can be so we tend to control the alcohol (availability restricted to a minimum age) and the after midnight (curfews) part.

[BigSky]

Whether the victim drank nothing or a lot isn't relevant in this case.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Whether the victim drank nothing or a lot isn't relevant in this case.

It's not relevant due to the act committed.  It is most certainly relevant to her judgement and whether she would have decided to hook up with these guys or stay at that location.  Common sense people...if you're a young woman going over to a "friends" house and 4 guys are there egging you on to drink like a fish while they have NONE and it's late on a weekend....well get the hell out of there.  People have to be smarter and put themselves in better positions then this.

I hope the guy gets his just punishment.  I would have preferred she used a bit more common sense and figured out early in the process that maybe she should have ducked out early in the process.  Doesn't excuse the men at all, absolutely not.  Nor am I saying her actions warranted what she got...I'm not.  All I'm saying is use some common sense LADIES!!  Men at that age are on the prowl, mix in late hours, alcohol and nothing good usually comes of it. Don't put yourself in that situation.

Yeah,  I know...I'm a prude on this and it's easy after the fact (which it is).  But the problem is that this happens over and over and over and over again.  He got caught because he was stupid and recorded it (another action I don't get...why do so many people record this stuff).  It happens all too much and people need to try to avoid the situation.  Girls need to be smarter and these guys...good grief...well they can have the next 10 to 15 years to think about how stupid they are.

[MilTown]

Alcohol is an issue, but there is something deeper that fueled this horrific act. I'm not a psychologist, so I won't speculate, but something inside the minds of these young men told them that it was ok to exhibit this behavior.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Alcohol is an issue, but there is something deeper that fueled this horrific act. I'm not a psychologist, so I won't speculate, but something inside the minds of these young men told them that it was ok to exhibit this behavior.

It's part of a lot of the culture nowadays.  Those acts can be found by anyone with a computer and certainly that age group (and others) are going to be curious.  There's some crazy access to things out there ranging from how to behead someone (with video instruction), how to build a nuclear bomb, along with every sexual thing imaginable I would guess. 

Ahh...the digital age.   

[Pakuni]

It has nothing to do with the culture or the digital age. Rape wasn't invented at the same time Al Gore was inventing the Internet. Dehumanizing acts existed pre-Grand Theft Auto. As long as there have been human beings, there have been human beings treating other human beings inhumanely. It is, unfortunately, a part of the human condition.

As for the girl's intoxication, that's not relevant. While I wouldn't advise anyone to drink themselves to a .30 level, a person should be able to get drunk - even in the company of the opposite sex - without being exposed to an assault of any kind. Could she have exercised better judgement? Sure. Does it matter? Not at all.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nor did anyone say rape was a recent phenomena.  Recording an act on a cell phone...is!  And having that proof and sharing it so you can show your peeps...is!  That is the culture I'm talking about...the digital phenomena where now it's cool to show your conquests.  That's what I'm referencing.

It's becoming all too familiar

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17591065

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_km4469/is_200705/ai_n19159734

http://www.macombdaily.com/stories/021407/loc_sex001.shtml

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005115446



And on and on

[tower912]

This tracks nicely with frequent conversations I have with the police officers who come to my station on their breaks.    The nature of youth hasn't changed.   Young and dumb was not invented by this generation.   The nature of the tools at their disposal to get their young and dumb a$$e$ into trouble has.   Young people have been getting drunk and stupid and and trying to get laid forever.   Taking pictures of this and posting in on myspace sending pictures of it to your peeps is the new stupidity for this era.   Having said that, my prayers go out to the young lady and her family.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

This tracks nicely with frequent conversations I have with the police officers who come to my station on their breaks.    The nature of youth hasn't changed.   Young and dumb was not invented by this generation.   The nature of the tools at their disposal to get their young and dumb a$$e$ into trouble has.   Young people have been getting drunk and stupid and and trying to get laid forever.   Taking pictures of this and posting in on myspace sending pictures of it to your peeps is the new stupidity for this era.   Having said that, my prayers go out to the young lady and her family.   

Exactly!  You said it better then I did.  Since the dawn of time guys have been trying to get laid, that hasn't changed.  Nor has rape and other acts that are highly inappropriate.  But now it's cool to record things and send it around town to your buddies...that didn't exist until very recently.  Stupid is as stupid does.  It's only going to get worse...right now often times all parties know what is being recorded (not always, but often)...wait until even smaller cameras and devices come out in a few years and then it's really going to get crazy.

[Avenue Commons]

Whether the victim drank nothing or a lot isn't relevant in this case.

It's not relevant due to the act committed.  It is most certainly relevant to her judgement and whether she would have decided to hook up with these guys or stay at that location.  Common sense people...if you're a young woman going over to a "friends" house and 4 guys are there egging you on to drink like a fish while they have NONE and it's late on a weekend....well get the hell out of there.  People have to be smarter and put themselves in better positions then this.

I was at parties at Marquette on dozens of occasions where young women were "overserved" and nothing like this ever happened because the people I was friends with would never do something like this and would have beaten the hell out of anyone who did. Her being smart or putting herself in a better position than that had nothing to do with what ultimately occurred. The assault occurred because those guys are criminals and preyed on an unconscious victim. Period. One of those guys should have had the good sense to get her out of there.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, one of those guys should have had that good sense....just as her friend who brought her there should have had alarm bells going off say...oh...after the 7th shot maybe.

The act was terrible....why is it also not appropriate to give a wake up call to these kids that put themselves in really stupid positions?  No one is saying what these guys did was not horrific.  All some people are saying is to do yourself a favor and use better judgement with who you hang out with, where, when and what it entails. 

I'm not assigning one ounce of blame to this woman, I don't know why people are assuming that I am.  Instead, I am simply saying that judgement used wisely can prevent one from becoming a victim.

[spiral97]

Whether the victim drank nothing or a lot isn't relevant in this case.

It's not relevant due to the act committed.  It is most certainly relevant to her judgement and whether she would have decided to hook up with these guys or stay at that location.  Common sense people...if you're a young woman going over to a "friends" house and 4 guys are there egging you on to drink like a fish while they have NONE and it's late on a weekend....well get the hell out of there.  People have to be smarter and put themselves in better positions then this.

I was at parties at Marquette on dozens of occasions where young women were "overserved" and nothing like this ever happened because the people I was friends with would never do something like this and would have beaten the hell out of anyone who did. Her being smart or putting herself in a better position than that had nothing to do with what ultimately occurred. The assault occurred because those guys are criminals and preyed on an unconscious victim. Period. One of those guys should have had the good sense to get her out of there.

I do remember a case where some dubious frat members took someone who was passed out drunk and lit them on fire.  That frat was shutdown and banned IIRC.  I remember another case where frat members laid a passed out drunk person in a bed and let them die of alcohol poisoning (although they didn't realize that was happening they still have some responsibility to the person considering a.) the person was served by them and b.) the person was still "in their care").  I seem to remember some frat suspension or something there too.

[jutaw22mu]

As for the girl's intoxication, that's not relevant. While I wouldn't advise anyone to drink themselves to a .30 level, a person should be able to get drunk - even in the company of the opposite sex - without being exposed to an assault of any kind. Could she have exercised better judgement? Sure. Does it matter? Not at all.

I agree with Pak here, the girl was clearly a victim.  The fact that she was drunk does not discount the fact she was taken advantage of in a horribly cruel way.  These boys clearly knew what they were doing.  I hope they all get the book thrown at them.  Actually the best punishment would be to call in Lorena Bobbitt to fix them all so they can never rape anyone ever again.  I'll even volunteer myself to do the job.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As for the girl's intoxication, that's not relevant. While I wouldn't advise anyone to drink themselves to a .30 level, a person should be able to get drunk - even in the company of the opposite sex - without being exposed to an assault of any kind. Could she have exercised better judgement? Sure. Does it matter? Not at all.

I agree with Pak here, the girl was clearly a victim.  The fact that she was drunk does not discount the fact she was taken advantage of in a horribly cruel way.  These boys clearly knew what they were doing.  I hope they all get the book thrown at them.  Actually the best punishment would be to call in Lorena Bobbitt to fix them all so they can never rape anyone ever again.  I'll even volunteer myself to do the job.

Jutaw...then you're agreeing with all of us.  We all think she was a victim and all hope these guys get punished appropriately.

[Avenue Commons]

Yes, one of those guys should have had that good sense....just as her friend who brought her there should have had alarm bells going off say...oh...after the 7th shot maybe.

The act was terrible....why is it also not appropriate to give a wake up call to these kids that put themselves in really stupid positions?  No one is saying what these guys did was not horrific.  All some people are saying is to do yourself a favor and use better judgement with who you hang out with, where, when and what it entails. 

I'm not assigning one ounce of blame to this woman, I don't know why people are assuming that I am.  Instead, I am simply saying that judgement used wisely can prevent one from becoming a victim.

Chicos, that's a fair point. I'm sorry if I misconstrued what you were saying. I'm confident that as a father of a daughter you wouldn't ever say that the victim somehow "asked" for this to happen.