My son was just threatened with ejection from the game......

[drewm88]

x

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

drew is correct!!! If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times...I graduated in 1990 and I never once saw a Willie Wampum image until after the name change. Never. The ridiculous name is causing people to bring back the offensive images as a protest!

I don't even want to get in on this debate, but I will say that I strongly disagree with the fact that the old warrior stuff would just dissapear if MU went back to the name Warriors.

Students and alumni alike really like the old stuff because it's somewhat original and different.

The reason we haven't seen all of the willie wapaum stuff in the past is because it was harder to come by.

Now with the internet, students can brand anything they want using any MU logo they want. I could make decent looking willie wapaum shirts by tomorrow using my laptop and home printer. It's just easier now than in 1990.

[Final Four or Bust]

Eventually a Joan of Arc Warrior would be deemed sexist (because she is a woman) and racist (because she was a white woman) by some of these same people.  Don't believe me?  Check the stories about the movement to rid UMASS of the "Minuteman" because he was racist (he was depicted as a white man), sexist (because he was a man), and violent (because he carried a gun . . . nevermind that Minutemen actually fought battles).  Never underestimate the foolishness of some.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

If you don't care about offending Native Americans that's one thing, but to say it isn't offensive to them is ridiculous.

Why do you continue to speak for them? I would like to see the quotes, attributed to Native Americans, that object to Marquette returning to Warriors with a non-Native American logo.

PRN, be careful, there will always be people in society who will claim to be victims because they feel empowered by the attention. Certainly that was the case back during Marquette's debacle, when the one dude claimed to speak for all Native American tribes in Wisconsin, despite the fact that none of them actually individually rebuked Marquette.

But besides that, I think some people may be accidently accepting some posters' attempts to paint a straw man argument. Some posters would like this to be a debate over the mascot (as you know). However, NO ONE actually suggested going back to the old mascot of the 70's, which is why anyone who claims that the nickname debate centers around Native American opinions on mascots and headdresses etc is fighting a battle that doesn't even address the Marquette nickname debate.

[bartmiller#1]

If  nothing else, this thread proves that there's a debate within the MU community about this issue. 

Chicos-- your reference to Sherry Coe Perkins brought chills.  She was a red-tape dispenser.  My Lord. 

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Jay Weber - sitting in for Belling - is discussing this on 1130 right now.

[Coach Norman Dale]

While I am pretty neutral on this whole nickname thing, I do enjoy the lengths people will go to make their points.  The above quote is my favorite for today.  Yeah, the kid is paying homage; I am sure it has nothing to do with trying to attract attention from the TV and/or Jumbotron cameras.  Just trying to honor history -- sure thing.  Isn't that a high priority with every college student, especially on this issue?

I'll just put it from my perspective. I was trying to find/make a headdress like that myself before he showed up with his. I didn't want to take away from his thing, so I stopped. However, my reasons for doing it in the first place were to pay tribute to the Warriors.

If honoring the time was your intent, why do you care if someone else was doing it?  If it was an honor, rather than a gimmick, shouldn't everyone be doing it?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Coach, it's impossible to get everyone to do anything let alone something like this.

[bma725]

If you don't care about offending Native Americans that's one thing, but to say it isn't offensive to them is ridiculous.

Why do you continue to speak for them? I would like to see the quotes, attributed to Native Americans, that object to Marquette returning to Warriors with a non-Native American logo.

I think you will have to look long and hard because such a quote does not exist.  We were given nothing but second hand objections from Fr. Wild, but not a damn thing from these real live "Native Americans" who are so offended by a nickname like "Warriors" that was ALWAYS meant to honor their bravery.

I don't get it? I think it's the Native Americans and people like bma725 and Marquette84 that don't get it!! You're so busy preaching to us from your high horse that you refuse to admit the origin of the name was a tribute!!

Now you're switching the issue. I'm talking about the headdress, you're talking about the nickname.  Try to stay on topic.

How about a quote from the National Coalition on Racism in Sports, and it's Native American Vice-President Charlene Teters:

"Using our names, likeness and religious symbols to excite the crowd does not feel like honor or respect, it is hurtful and confusing to our young people. To reduce the victims of genocide to a mascot is unthinking, at least, and immoral at worst. An educational institution's mission is to educate, not mis-educate, and to alleviate the ignorance behind racist stereotypes, not perpetuate them and to provide a nondiscriminatory environment for all its students, conducive to learning."

Or how about Cindy Bloom, a Cherokee activist who protested the Washington Redskins use of a headdress:

"They're talking about something sacred to us and using it to promote an athletic team. It's really a disgrace. It's like using the face of the pope or a priest.""

[IAmMarquette]

It's like using the face of the pope or a priest.

Providence Friars - Mascot is a white guy, looks like he's wearing a hood, probably that of a... priest?
Milwaukee Pius Popes - Nickname Popes, a direct reference to Pope Pius IX
San Diego Padres - Mascot is the stereotypical bald, overweight robe-wearing Franciscan friar
"Jumpin' Jesuits" - a reference to the legend of the MU priests who killed themselves by jumping off one of the academic buildings.

Boy, as a Catholic, I'm awfully offended... [/sarcasm]

[pitz]

Just to clear up a few things.  I made the headdress for him.  He wanted to wear it because he is a lifelong (from infancy) MU fan.
He has deep feelings for the Warriors.  He meant no disrespect.
He didn't do it to get on the jumbotron.
He was just interviewed by WTMJ 620.  He told them he never meant for it to be so controversial and only did it to honor the Warrior name.
He will not wear it tomorrow, even though he would love to honor the 77 team.  He doesn't want it to overshadow anything.

[drewm88]

x

[maxpower773]

It's like using the face of the pope or a priest.

Providence Friars - Mascot is a white guy, looks like he's wearing a hood, probably that of a... priest?
Milwaukee Pius Popes - Nickname Popes, a direct reference to Pope Pius IX
San Diego Padres - Mascot is the stereotypical bald, overweight robe-wearing Franciscan friar
"Jumpin' Jesuits" - a reference to the legend of the MU priests who killed themselves by jumping off one of the academic buildings.

Boy, as a Catholic, I'm awfully offended... [/sarcasm]

You forgot the Valparaiso Crusaders...now that's politically correct and for a luthern school too....but you don't hear the muslims or anyone else complaining about that one.

[ONeills Barstool]

Just to clear up a few things.  I made the headdress for him.  He wanted to wear it because he is a lifelong (from infancy) MU fan.
He has deep feelings for the Warriors.  He meant no disrespect.
He didn't do it to get on the jumbotron.
He was just interviewed by WTMJ 620.  He told them he never meant for it to be so controversial and only did it to honor the Warrior name.
He will not wear it tomorrow, even though he would love to honor the 77 team.  He doesn't want it to overshadow anything.

Now that is a real shame!  I guess now I'll have to do my part and proudly display Warrior garb tomorrow.  Hopefully many of you will do the same.

Let's Go Warriors.

[mutpm]

The thing lost in this whole thread is that tomorrow night is about the 2006-07 basketball team.  Sure we will recognize and applaud the 1976-77 team one more time, but this is about the student athletes and the coaching staff of this year's team.  This is not about those of us that went to school as Warriors a chance to demonstrate that we should be Warriors again on national TV.  It is about us, as fans, to cheer on a team that really needs a win.  There is a time and place to debate the nickname/mascot issue, but tomorrow night is not that time or place.  This team along with the coaching staff has worked hard to receive the privilige to be one of a very few select schools to get the chance to host ESPN Gameday.  Let's let tomorrow be about celebrating this acheivment and cheering this team on to a huge win over Pitt.

[jmcadams]

How about a quote from the National Coalition on Racism in Sports, and it's Native American Vice-President Charlene Teters:

Or how about Cindy Bloom, a Cherokee activist who protested the Washington Redskins use of a headdress:

You are quoting people who are race hustlers.  They are in business to express grievances -- rather like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.

They are in business to tell white liberals and leftist what they want to hear.

When one surveys real American Indians (as Sports Illustrated and the Annenberg School did) one finds real Indians say Indian names are OK by huge margins.

[jmcadams]

For the latest news, see the following:

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2007/03/marquette-student-wearing-warrior.html

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2007/03/indian-headdresses-at-tomorrows.html

[maxpower773]

That'd be interesting to see if more than just one person showed up in a headdress. I won't be but I will have a warriors shirt on.

[ONeills Barstool]

This is not about those of us that went to school as Warriors a chance to demonstrate that we should be Warriors again on national TV.  It is about us, as fans, to cheer on a team that really needs a win. 

I couldn't agree more.  I won't be there demonstrating that we should be Warriors again.  I'll be there yelling my A#$ off for this years team - that is all that should matter.  What I am wearing should not.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

This is not about those of us that went to school as Warriors a chance to demonstrate that we should be Warriors again on national TV.  It is about us, as fans, to cheer on a team that really needs a win. 

I couldn't agree more.  I won't be there demonstrating that we should be Warriors again.  I'll be there yelling my A#$ off for this years team - that is all that should matter.  What I am wearing should not.

God are you guys full of absolute balderdash!! Why can't people cheer for Marquette WHILE showing their support for the nickname that was stripped away for no legitimate reason??

There are a LOT of Marquette supporters who remain angry about the name change. The young guys on this board don't really seem to realize just how many. We will NEVER have a bigger stage to voice our outrage at the university for completely ignoring our wishes. I hope it's completely over-the-top Warrior stuff all day tomorrow.

To suggest that people that want Warriors back won't support the team is idiotic. It makes you all sound like members of the administration.

[maxpower773]

We will have a sign....hopefully it will be as big as planned...you'll see that for sure. Also, which is odd again, I agree with PRN on this. I will support this team no matter what and will never put a nickname infront of that, but why not support both. We aren't taking away from the team at all and to think it would is just stupidity since the warriors supporters are largely the biggest supporters of the team, and tend to go to most of the away games. I am not at all saying others aren't, I'm just pointing out the fact that the nickname clearly doesn't get in the way of our support.

[maxpower773]

The sign I mentioned is 12 feet long and will be in one of the front rows in the vif section

[ONeills Barstool]

Why can't people cheer for Marquette WHILE showing their support for the nickname that was stripped away for no legitimate reason??

They can and I will.  Maybe I shouldn't have said that I won't be there demonstrating that we should be Warriors again - that just isn't my primary reason for being at the game....while wearing a Warriors shirt.  

  

[LastWarrior]

I have very strong feelings on the nickname topic as many folks here know.     That said, I can't stay out of this any longer... I do find it very ironic that it finally becomes an issue in the eyes of the administration on the eve of our biggest and most televised game of the season.  If the administration had a problem with this, they should have nipped it in the butt the first time he wore it.  To say that they just found out about it is an insult to everybody's intelligence.  Make a statement early in the season and don't pick the biggest game of the year to make this an issue.  Public relations 101... geezzz, that may even be a grade school lesson.

That said gentlemen and gentlewomen, we have a VERY BIG game tomorrow so let's focus on that and return to the debate after the season in between updates of us recruiting small men.   

SOOO... FIRE UP MARQUETTE!!!!


ohhh... and LET'S GO WARRIORS!!!   

[mutpm]

This is not about those of us that went to school as Warriors a chance to demonstrate that we should be Warriors again on national TV.  It is about us, as fans, to cheer on a team that really needs a win. 

I couldn't agree more.  I won't be there demonstrating that we should be Warriors again.  I'll be there yelling my A#$ off for this years team - that is all that should matter.  What I am wearing should not.

Why can't people cheer for Marquette WHILE showing their support for the nickname that was stripped away for no legitimate reason??

The reason I don't think it's possible is because I keep reading that people are going to be watching for a student in a headress and waiting for the BC security to throw him out.  That leads me to believe that people care more about that than the team.  I'm going to cheer for the team.  If the chant "Let's Go Warriors!" is started, I will join in.  What I'm saying is, my priority at the game is to watch and cheer on our team, not try to use it for my own selfish reasons to try and bring back a nickname.