MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mcderjim on November 19, 2015, 10:03:43 PM
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Start it now, why not ? Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?
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I guess I didn't realize 3 games make up a year....
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Those 3s were the only thing often...They were triple teaming the post. Our players just didn't hit them so there were able to stack the post.
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Poor fan. Poor alumni representation. Poor thread. Poor post. Poor you(?).
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Start it now, why not ? Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?
I'll give you credit, at least you have been consistent for the last couple of years on Buzz and Wojo. I don't agree with your thread title, but you have been consistent which I can respect.
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Dumb. Give the team some time to gel. If we look exactly the same in March, you may have a case. Until then, keep the Fire Woho posts to yourself.
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*Wojo
Damn touchscreen...
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Lol
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I don't see the fire in Wojo that I remember when he was a tough, top notch Duke PG. Kevin O'Neill had fire from Day 1, when we were at our lowest after years of incompetence. Sure, I understand he was 'improper' at times. And I understand Wojo has the youngest team around (as O'Neill had against Duke). But damn, show some fire. (Afraid you may screw up your future dream job ?) Duane needs a kick up the butt. jJJ needs to go to Div 3. We lost by 30 which could have been 50 ..make a point! Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.
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I don't see the fire in Wojo that I remember when he was a tough, top notch Duke PG. Kevin O'Neill had fire from Day 1, when we were at our lowest after years of incompetence. Sure, I understand he was 'improper' at times. And I understand Wojo has the youngest team around (as O'Neill had against Duke). But damn, show some fire. (Afraid you may screw up your future dream job ?) Duane needs a kick up the butt. jJJ needs to go to Div 3. We lost by 30 which could have been 50 ..make a point! Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.
You're really gonna say that about JJJ after tonight? PS. McFlopper sucks.
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"see the fire"? Lol. Such a meathead fan comment.
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Just ignore this asswipe. Let this be the last response to it.
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Just ignore this asswipe. Let this be the last response to it.
+1...oh crapty.
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If a coach making a Top 10 salary from a Top 30 all time college BBall program can't recruit or motivate players to beat or at least compete in their first/second year against IUPUI, NJIT, Belmont, then I think it's fair to question his ability to do the job.
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Too really, but after tonight I wouldn't be shocked if Wojo was back on Duke's bench 24 months from now.
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I think we need to give Wojo considerably more time than 3 games with this group before bringing out the dogs. There will be no miracles this year without a point guard, etc. etc.
Having said that MU year in and year out pays big money to hire untested head coaches and then hopes for the best. Sometimes they are successful and sometimes they are not. I have never seen such an approach used in the private secttor. Why they follow this strategy is far beyond my simple thought process.
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If a coach making a Top 10 salary from a Top 30 all time college BBall program can't recruit or motivate players to beat or at least compete in their first/second year against IUPUI, NJIT, Belmont, then I think it's fair to question his ability to do the job.
I do not believe he is top 10 in salary.
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I don't know if I'm on board the fire Wojo bandwagon yet, but one thing really bothered me last night was the amount of time he used in timeouts. I counted 4 or 5 times, including the start of the second half, when our players were standing on the court waiting for 20-30 seconds or more while Fran continued to coach. Did wojo give up on coaching early? Lose his voice?
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Stupid, stupid thread. Delete it now. We are so young and inexperienced. Patience, rookies. In a year or two, we'll be playing as well as Iowa did, only we have much superior talent.
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Fire him?! No, let's burn him at the stake! Then he'll know how disapproving Marquette fan feels
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Stupid, stupid thread. Delete it now. We are so young and inexperienced. Patience, rookies. In a year or two, we'll be playing as well as Iowa did, only we have much superior talent.
Well then we will be doing so without our most talented player.
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I have not liked Wojo from the start and part of that was that I could not stand him when he was Duke's point guard. One of my most disliked players of all time and it was like "you got to be kidding me" when MU hired him. The team is young and last night's game reminded me of the game when Harris, Cordell and company were freshmen and UW came in and destroyed the team in the first half. I actually left that game at halftime and then vowed I would not leave a game early again. I was there at the final buzzer last night. One of the things that really disturbs me, which I think will be the real downfall of MU basketball, is the number of fans attending a game. It really hurts me to look up and see all of those empty seats. I am not sure who we should blame the empty seats on. However, with the home games being on TV a lot of people are not going to spend money to come to the games. I want to be optimistic and realistic (the team is very young), but I do not believe Wojo is going to succeed. However, I think he should be given at least four years. This is his first head coaching job and when you hire a first time coach you owe him enough time to learn on the job.
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I have not liked Wojo from the start and part of that was that I could not stand him when he was Duke's point guard. One of my most disliked players of all time and it was like "you got to be kidding me" when MU hired him. The team is young and last night's game reminded me of the game when Harris, Cordell and company were freshmen and UW came in and destroyed the team in the first half. I actually left that game at halftime and then vowed I would not leave a game early again. I was there at the final buzzer last night. One of the things that really disturbs me, which I think will be the real downfall of MU basketball, is the number of fans attending a game. It really hurts me to look up and see all of those empty seats. I am not sure who we should blame the empty seats on. However, with the home games being on TV a lot of people are not going to spend money to come to the games. I want to be optimistic and realistic (the team is very young), but I do not believe Wojo is going to succeed. However, I think he should be given at least four years. This is his first head coaching job and when you hire a first time coach you owe him enough time to learn on the job.
Agree with most of this.
My only objection would be that in any successful organization, when they figure out that the person they hired isn't the right fit for the job they have no problem cutting ties as soon as they come to that conclusion. To do otherwise reduces productivity and prolongs the problem. I'm not saying Wojo has reached that point yet, but I do not subscribe to the notion that someone is owed a guaranteed length of time on the job if the results are sub par.
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I have not liked Wojo from the start and part of that was that I could not stand him when he was Duke's point guard. One of my most disliked players of all time and it was like "you got to be kidding me" when MU hired him. The team is young and last night's game reminded me of the game when Harris, Cordell and company were freshmen and UW came in and destroyed the team in the first half. I actually left that game at halftime and then vowed I would not leave a game early again. I was there at the final buzzer last night. One of the things that really disturbs me, which I think will be the real downfall of MU basketball, is the number of fans attending a game. It really hurts me to look up and see all of those empty seats. I am not sure who we should blame the empty seats on. However, with the home games being on TV a lot of people are not going to spend money to come to the games. I want to be optimistic and realistic (the team is very young), but I do not believe Wojo is going to succeed. However, I think he should be given at least four years. This is his first head coaching job and when you hire a first time coach you owe him enough time to learn on the job.
I left early last night because I was sick of watching this team turn the ball over and miss 3s. I paid my money and when I stopped being entertained (actually I should have left at the first TV timeout) I departed.
This season as well as the last two have me questioning whether to renew. I've been a ticket holder since I graduated in 2000 and this coming off-season will be the first where I seriously contemplate letting them go. Watching three straight seasons of ugly, boring basketball is not that much fun for me. Add in a conference void of true rivals and the equation gets even less favorable. I don't owe MU anything, nor do they owe me.
I have some questions about Wojo as a coach, his attitude as a player is irrelevant to me. In one seasons + 3 games, his teams tend not to play all that hard, can't defend and suck at shooting. It isn't all on him, he was left nothing and now has young players, but to-date he hasn't really coached them up either. If the end of this season resembles the beginning in any way, please feel free to show him the door, he shouldn't be guaranteed 4 years.
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Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.
And that time frame is 3 games!
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One of the things that really disturbs me, which I think will be the real downfall of MU basketball, is the number of fans attending a game.
SMDH...overly dramatic much?!
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The window for Wojo to recruit above trend is very limited. Coming in he had the "Duke Halo" and was able to offer recruits the ability to play right away. It is not unusual in these circumstances for a guy to get some good recruiting classes. Each year we get further away from that Wojo has to sell his own performance record.
Last year was unacceptable, and as far as I am concerned that performance and the non conference season this year are his mulligan. If Wojo cannot produce in conference this year then we need to look in a different direction. I know there are those that say give the guy 4-5 years etc . However, for the money we are spending and the resources he has that is simply too long. Also I dispute the notion that we were a dumpster fire when he arrived.
Wojo needs to deliver a .500 year in conference in my view to demonstrate he has the actually game coaching capability to succeed. That means he will have to win most of the home games and get a few wins on the road. If Wojo can do that then I would be willing to sign up for two more years.
There are plenty of successful coaches who would love to coach at Marquette and can get the job done . If Wojo can't achieve mediocre results as outlined above then he cant get the job done and I say, in that event, lets regroup and hire a seasoned head coach. Another lousy year will sink us for a good 5-7 years.
My instinct is Wojo would have been much better off starting his coaching career at a low major and showing some performance.
In the meantime MU Rah
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"see the fire"? Lol. Such a meathead fan comment.
LOL. "Fight no fire with fire" apparently.
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I say, let the guy keep coaching. He has been around Coach K for many years. Let him get his system in place. Once his players get it and execute it will be a different story. Give his some slack. Once he feels he is on egg shells it is over. I
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SMDH...overly dramatic much?!
Seriously. The late 90s into Crean's tenure saw some pretty barren crowds. Just had to start winning again.
I also think that a school like ours having 12,000+ season ticket holders between students and alums/general public is a really great accomplishment. It looks worse than it is because we play in an oversized arena.
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Who do you think MU would hire if they fired Wojo? History says they would hire another assistant. Starting a revolving door is probably not a good idea. Wojo deserves the time to see where he can take this team this year and next year. After that he has no excuses.
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I am reserving judgment until March 2016. But my judgment does not matter as Marquette will keep Wojo through March 2017, even if the product is terrible.
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My only objection would be that in any successful organization, when they figure out that the person they hired isn't the right fit for the job they have no problem cutting ties as soon as they come to that conclusion.
I don't think most people will have a problem cutting ties when they come to that conclusion. I just think most of us disagree that you can make this a rash decision. Whether as coach or CEO, you hired this person for a reason. Not giving him the chance to enact his vision only results in churn.
...In two seasons + 3 games, his teams tend not to play all that hard, can't defend and suck at shooting.
One season and three games. Just one.
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I don't see the fire in Wojo that I remember when he was a tough, top notch Duke PG. Kevin O'Neill had fire from Day 1, when we were at our lowest after years of incompetence. Sure, I understand he was 'improper' at times. And I understand Wojo has the youngest team around (as O'Neill had against Duke). But damn, show some fire. (Afraid you may screw up your future dream job ?) Duane needs a kick up the butt. jJJ needs to go to Div 3. We lost by 30 which could have been 50 ..make a point! Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.
so, who ya crappin?
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One season and three games. Just one.
Thanks, Im not sure why I typed that. It has been corrected.
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Not sure if it was posted elsewhere but can we get a peek at the season checklist? I feel we are checking off quite a few boxes at this point
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Sports are funny
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Sports are funny
I agree. The fire Wojo sentiments were idiotic.
We have a Freshman PG, who has limited experience because of a serious knee injury.
Our other Freshman PG has never played the position before.
We have a Freshman McDonalds All-American, who having played in WI, does not have a ton of experience at this level and is still learning team defense.
We have an experienced Big, but he is coming off Shoulder surgery.
We have a very good PG/SG, but he only has 1 year of experience and is still learning.
We have a SG who had to completely revamp his shot in the off-season because it was so dreadful.
They are learning and will improve all season long. I trust in Wojo.
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We have a Freshman McDonalds All-American, who having played in WI, does not have a ton of experience at this level and is still learning team defense.
I don't understand this. What freshman--burger boy or not---has any experience at this level?
What does Playing in Wisconsin have to do with anything to do with that? Kevon and Diamond in the same boat?
Still learning team defense? I completely agree. I think he is starting to understand it, but it never has been and never will be a strong suit for HE.
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bump
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too funny!
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Classic.
Add to it "Wojo doesn't know how to coach in TO huddles! all i hear is the same old 'coach speak' he needs to be more specific". I laughed every time they showed the dry erase court being handed to him as the team came together.
Also, lots of references from the announcers at how well coached MU is.
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Amazing what a rollercoaster this season has been. I have to say, since Iowa, Wojo has done a fantastic job. Going into NYC, I think most would have been happy with 1-1, instead we beat a ranked LSU team and an ASU team that looks pretty good. Granted, you can only take so much from the cupcake wins, but the team looks far more motivated, ahead of the curve in terms of the new defensive rules, and in general is just a better team. Since this thread was started, we are 7-0 (soon to be 9-0 with Chicago State and Prebyterian upcoming).
I had my own questions about Wojo early in the season. Thus far, he has absolutely answered the bell. I wasn't ready to fire him (or even close) but I'm really glad he's making people eat some crow. And while I may only have an appetizer of crow nuggets myself, they are freaking delicious.
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There is only one conclusion here.
Wojo read this thread and got his act together.
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There is only one conclusion here.
Wojo read this thread and got his act together.
So another letter writing campaign ends successfully!
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Wojo coached one helluva game today. If Brown doesn't shoot out of his mind, MU wins easily. Completely took away their two big guns.
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There is only one conclusion here.
Wojo read this thread and got his act together.
or there is magic in those white practice shirts.
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There is only one conclusion here.
Wojo read this thread and got his act together.
Scoop always delivers
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or there is magic in those white practice shirts.
How long until the spirit shop start selling "official" MUBB white t shirts?
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How long until the spirit shop start selling "official" MUBB white t shirts?
Target already beat them to it
http://www.target.com/p/hanes-men-s-6pk-crew-neck-t-shirts-white/-/A-14450616?sid=229S&ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&CPNG=PLA_Men+Shopping_Local&adgroup=Tee%20Undershirts_SC_Local&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=t&location=9031057&lsft=gclid:Cj0KEQiAqK-zBRC2zaXc8MOiwfIBEiQAXPHrXhH_Fo4yCt6BuC-fdrNrUjkAVKbkGK_YmhFEDj940aIaAnFn8P8HAQ,gclsrc:aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KEQiAqK-zBRC2zaXc8MOiwfIBEiQAXPHrXhH_Fo4yCt6BuC-fdrNrUjkAVKbkGK_YmhFEDj940aIaAnFn8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Target already beat them to it
http://www.target.com/p/hanes-men-s-6pk-crew-neck-t-shirts-white/-/A-14450616?sid=229S&ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&CPNG=PLA_Men+Shopping_Local&adgroup=Tee%20Undershirts_SC_Local&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=t&location=9031057&lsft=gclid:Cj0KEQiAqK-zBRC2zaXc8MOiwfIBEiQAXPHrXhH_Fo4yCt6BuC-fdrNrUjkAVKbkGK_YmhFEDj940aIaAnFn8P8HAQ,gclsrc:aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KEQiAqK-zBRC2zaXc8MOiwfIBEiQAXPHrXhH_Fo4yCt6BuC-fdrNrUjkAVKbkGK_YmhFEDj940aIaAnFn8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
*internet high five*
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I Have my "Wojo Warriors" T-shirt on in front of my 2 wisco buddies.LOVE IT!
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I have no problem eating crow. Absolutely loved the win today. A couple of comments:
1). I underestimated how young and inexperienced this team is. Love the future of Cheatem and Ellenson.
2). I love the motivational moves by Wojo to get the team moving in the right direction. This alone makes me feel better about his future as a Warrior
3). I'm still not sold on Wojo as a bench/game coach. Hopefully he's better than Crean in the long run. We almost gave up an 11/13 point lead to a team that was dead in the water.
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Amazing what a rollercoaster this season has been.
I respectfully disagree that it has been a rollercoaster ride, which I define as down, up, down, up, down, up, etc.
We had a bad first three games. We've been up since.
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I respectfully disagree that it has been a rollercoaster ride, which I define as down, up, down, up, down, up, etc.
We had a bad first three games. We've been up since.
Agreed. We have performed as a young, talented, inexperienced team should perform. Started poorly and have shown much improvement offensively and defensively. If we continue on this path, we have a shot at The Dance.
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Wanted to make sure everyone had easy access to this thread in case today doesn't go according to their plans.
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Wanted to make sure everyone had easy access to this thread in case today doesn't go according to their plans.
Wojo doing his usual job of demotivating the team.
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this thread will heat up. wojo has done nothing to prove his worth at marquette thus far
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Wojo doing his usual job of demotivating the team.
You're a joke.
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this thread will heat up. wojo has done nothing to prove his worth at marquette thus far
You don't like the offensive game plan? So inventive!
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Has it been 5 years yet?
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WTF
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You're a joke.
+1, but he's better than a lot of the "fans" who show up here after a loss.
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+1, but he's better than a lot of the "fans" who show up here after a loss.
Good point. I'll give him credit for that
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+1, but he's better than a lot of the "fans" who show up here after a loss.
Not really.
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He's a deer in the headlights. The "in the huddle" during UW's 16-0 run.
"We gotta stick together.......... we gotta stick together"
What a great tactician.
The talent is there but Wojo has to be one of the worst game coaches I have ever seen. We go to Luke in the 1st possession in the second half - doesn't drop but it's a good look. Then we abandon him? Go again and again and again. WTF.
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He's a deer in the headlights. The "in the huddle" during UW's 16-0 run.
"We gotta stick together.......... we gotta stick together"
What a great tactician.
The talent is there but Wojo has to be one of the worst game coaches I have ever seen. We go to Luke in the 1st possession in the second half - doesn't drop but it's a good look. Then we abandon him? Go again and again and again. WTF.
Based on that alone, you're either a troll or a moron. Either way, your opinion means nothing.
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Time to vacate the board for a bit while the crazies come out and whine.
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He's a deer in the headlights. The "in the huddle" during UW's 16-0 run.
You have points, but stop using the huddle as your proof. It makes you sound no so smart.
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You have points, but stop using the huddle as your proof. It makes you sound no so smart.
It's called illustrative evidence - I'm not trying to prove anything. Maybe you want to suggest the 16-0 run was just bad luck? Or blame the players? I prefer the buck stops with the coach - how that happens - in our house - is beyond me. How you don't have something that you've drawn up, that you've worked on all week, that is a sure-fire bucket that you can put in after the 8-0 run, or at the second TO you should have called when the run was 12-0, boggles my mind.
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So we lost to an experienced senior team. The solution to turning things around is to fire the coach? Then we are back to square one. We'll all be complaining about the next guy because we didn't make the NCAA in his first year.
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It's called illustrative evidence - I'm not trying to prove anything. Maybe you want to suggest the 16-0 run was just bad luck? Or blame the players?
The "zero" part of 16-0 was bad luck. The 16 part was bad defense, or at least defense not well suited to the team. I do mostly blame Wojo for th defense (80%), and the rest probably goes to the the team not executing well.
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So we lost to an experienced senior team. The solution to turning things around is to fire the coach? Then we are back to square one. We'll all be complaining about the next guy because we didn't make the NCAA in his first year.
We have Stan Johnson. He has the critical ties to all the recruits. The current players all like him and he is a motivator.
Wojo is a demotivator.
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See you tomorrow
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Some of the "zero" has to be to bad coaching - there were a few good looks during the run but most of the possessions the offense was a mess - execution is the coach's responsibility. Well-coached teams rarely, if ever, look lost.
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It's called illustrative evidence - I'm not trying to prove anything. Maybe you want to suggest the 16-0 run was just bad luck? Or blame the players? I prefer the buck stops with the coach - how that happens - in our house - is beyond me. How you don't have something that you've drawn up, that you've worked on all week, that is a sure-fire bucket that you can put in after the 8-0 run, or at the second TO you should have called when the run was 12-0, boggles my mind.
Thanks for proving my point earlier.
I'm sticking with moron, after you doubled-down.
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In the words of the great Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke " It is time for Pitchforks and Torches..."
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Just gotta know if Wojo coached Howard ta 22, hey?
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Some of the "zero" has to be to bad coaching - there were a few good looks during the run but most of the possessions the offense was a mess - execution is the coach's responsibility. Well-coached teams rarely, if ever, look lost.
The 0 had to do with lack of size. UW extended their defense and with Happ in there, MU didn't have many options.
Blame Wojo for the lack of size. Not much he could have done to adjust today. Maybe he should have just gone small earlier?
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Some of the "zero" has to be to bad coaching - there were a few good looks during the run but most of the possessions the offense was a mess - execution is the coach's responsibility.
I don't know. I wound't call an offense that scored 84 on Bucky "a mess". I would call a defense that gave up 93 to Bucky "a mess". And I'm putting most of that on Wojo. I don't know why this is a disagreement.
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Thanks for proving my point earlier.
I'm sticking with moron, after you doubled-down.
Timeouts are two minutes long and some people think that 20 seconds of look in is "illustrative evidence."
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In the words of the great Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke " It is time for Pitchforks and Torches..."
Yes another ahole
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In the words of the great Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke " It is time for Pitchforks and Torches..."
And dead prison inmates? Or were they demotivated to live?
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Timeouts are two minutes long and some people think that 20 seconds of look in is "illustrative evidence."
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I don't know. I wound't call an offense that scored 84 on Bucky "a mess". I would call a defense that gave up 93 to Bucky "a mess". And I'm putting most of that on Wojo. I don't know why this is a disagreement.
I believe Wiskey shot 65% in the second half. Thats not very good defense
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Watchin' Butler. Dey gonna torch our asses, ai na?
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We lost our fire at the halftime. Also shots didn't fall, makes us look bad.
Hauser played like a freshman. We are just to small. Luke and Markus played well. Cheatham is coming back. D-Wil-just going thru the motions
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We lost to an experienced, ranked team, I get it. A win would have been great but it really wasn't expected. But that doesn't mean Wojo was playing with house money. You can take different paths to a 9 point loss, and there can be different take away's from those paths. Had UW gradually pulled away, maybe up 4 at 10:00, up 7 at half, up 11 at 30:00 and win by nine, yeah, nothing to feel to bad about, we were outplayed by the slightly better team. But to go from up 5 with 18:24 to go to down 15 with 9:24 is a different kind of thing. We lost those nine minutes 27 - 7. And this is, what, the third time in 10 games we've seen a stretch like this? I just don't see how its not on our coach when the team's collective brain shuts off for 25% of a game.
And it stings more because it's Bucky.
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We lost our fire at the halftime. Also shots didn't fall, makes us look bad.
Hauser played like a freshman. We are just to small. Luke and Markus played well. Cheatham is coming back. D-Wil-just going thru the motions
Aka, Happ played da second half, hey?
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I don't know. I wound't call an offense that scored 84 on Bucky "a mess". I would call a defense that gave up 93 to Bucky "a mess". And I'm putting most of that on Wojo. I don't know why this is a disagreement.
75% of the game sure, the offense was fine (although the last 15 points were just garbage time).
But the 25% of the game where we scored 7 points in over 10 minutes. I think we can go ahead and call that a mess. (Especially since, as the other 75% shows, we are clearly capable of putting the ball in the hoop!)
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I 2nd that
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75% of the game sure, the offense was fine (although the last 15 points were just garbage time).
But the 25% of the game where we scored 7 points in over 10 minutes. I think we can go ahead and call that a mess. (Especially since, as the other 75% shows, we are clearly capable of putting the ball in the hoop!)
Again, I agree that we didn't play good offense for a portion of the game (obviously, right?). But when at least 75% of the game is decent to good offense, you can't claim we have an offensive problem, or that Wojo can't coach offense.
Defense, complain away...
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We lost our fire at the halftime. Also shots didn't fall, makes us look bad.
Hauser played like a freshman. We are just to small. Luke and Markus played well. Cheatham is coming back. D-Wil-just going thru the motions
If todays play by HC means he is coming back then his journey has just begun. He is in a real sophomore slump.
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Just gotta know if Wojo coached Howard ta 22, hey?
No
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We have Stan Johnson. He has the critical ties to all the recruits. The current players all like him and he is a motivator.
Wojo is a demotivator.
Get unnatural carnal knowledgeed douche bag
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Get unnatural carnal knowledgeed douche bag
Brought to us by the performances artist known as Tex/MUFINY/Gus/Ners, who believes that if we had started Dawson, Deonte, Cohen, and JJJ, we wouldn't have even needed a 5th player on the court to beat the badgers by 50.
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I don't know. I wound't call an offense that scored 84 on Bucky "a mess". I would call a defense that gave up 93 to Bucky "a mess". And I'm putting most of that on Wojo. I don't know why this is a disagreement.
UW is a very good interior passing team, but UW had several wide open shots underneath the basket. You can expect this to happen one time in a game, but ther had to be at least a half dozen of these. Some of these came after an MU substitution and it seemed to me the incoming player did not know where he should be. Maybe we sub too much.
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The ole court slapper is a terrible defensive coach. Who woudda thought.
Maybe the geniuses that fired Buzz can fire themselves this go around. Drain the swamp.
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The ole court slapper is a terrible defensive coach. Who woudda thought.
Maybe the geniuses that fired Buzz can fire themselves this go around. Drain the swamp.
Buzz fired Buzz
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We lost our fire at the halftime. Also shots didn't fall, makes us look bad.
Hauser played like a freshman. We are just to small. Luke and Markus played well. Cheatham is coming back. D-Wil-just going thru the motions
Just a stupid comment - unless by "we lost our fire at halftime" you mean "Happ played in the 2nd half".
He was the best player on the floor and once he was on the floor, they pulled away. And Hayes was the 2nd best player on the floor.
They are probably about 10 points better than us and that's how the game turned out.
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Brought to us by the performances artist known as Tex/MUFINY/Gus/Ners, who believes that if we had started Dawson, Deonte, Cohen, and JJJ, we wouldn't have even needed a 5th player on the court to beat the badgers by 50.
Add Levin and you have the fifth player.
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In the words of the great Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke " It is time for Pitchforks and Torches..."
Congratulations. You got your wish and Marquette lost. It gives you license to do what you do best: gripe and whine.
Now, unfortunately, you didn't get your wish to have MU go 0-5 against Vanderbilt, Michigan, Pitt, Georgia and Wisconsin. But buck up. If you're really lucky Sam will have some more 0-fers, your man JJJ will play like a freshman again and you can celebrate the possibility of the de-motivator being fired down the road.
Then, a couple years after Coach Stan Johnson is in a similar predicament, you can rip Marquette for hiring the guy you wanted instead of an established name-brand coach.
You're so effen predictable.
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Add Levin and you have the fifth player.
;) Tip of the hat
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Congratulations. You got your wish and Marquette lost. It gives you license to do what you do best: gripe and whine.
Now, unfortunately, you didn't get your wish to have MU go 0-5 against Vanderbilt, Michigan, Pitt, Georgia and Wisconsin. But buck up. If you're really lucky Sam will have some more 0-fers, your man JJJ will play like a freshman again and you can celebrate the possibility of the de-motivator being fired down the road.
Then, a couple years after Coach Stan Johnson is in a similar predicament, you can rip Marquette for hiring the guy you wanted instead of an established name-brand coach.
You're so effen predictable.
This is an internet message board . People express opinions. You should hear the talk radio in NY when one of the local teams loses.
I want Marquette to win as much as anyone else on this message board. I just have a low tolerance for stuffed shirt corporate back stabber types like Wojo. The sooner he is gone the better.
Bob Dukiet was actually a decent human being. Can't say the same for Wojo.
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Bob Dukiet was actually a decent human being. Can't say the same for Wojo.
OK Tex. I've had it with your "fake news". We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it. Take a break for a month.
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OK Tex. I've had it with your "fake news". We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it. Take a break for a month.
He gowne
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OK Tex. I've had it with your "fake news". We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it. Take a break for a month.
(http://i.imgur.com/O3DHIA5.gif?noredirect)
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OK Tex. I've had it with your "fake news". We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it. Take a break for a month.
You've ascended to be my second favorite Rocky, surpassing Balboa but still a smidge behind Bullwinkle's buddy!
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We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.
So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.
Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.
There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.
The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.
In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').
The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!
Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.
If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.
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We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.
So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.
Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.
There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.
The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.
In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').
The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!
Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.
If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.
So, unless I'm reading this wrong, you're saying the Standard Model requires firing Wojo?
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a couple of things, which is the weakest? W+, W-, or the Z? secondly, if the string theory is building to be the new normal, what is going on with the bond(s) that hold the individual particles strings together to keep them in particulate form? assuming each string(linear) is connected at some point together to form the photon or quark, can they become unraveled, or disconnected thus becoming a "string" as opposed to being a "particle"?
alright, i get it. right now, the team is a bunch of unraveled strings. now, in order to keep this in the al, let's just say that wojo is either a W+,/- or Z and the team is UN-particle-ized gluons at the moment. but, thru the forces of gravity, which is the most questioned or unknown of forces, come together to form a nice, strong"gluon", wojo will keep his job. this would take all of the players quarks to focus their photons into a single, monochromatic, coherent beam, hence laser, toward the same goal of putting the sphere in to the black hole=WINNING
reminds me of what my high school physics teacher used to say-physics is phun and easy
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Gosh, now I understand. Thanks, everybody!
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So Benny B is Stephen Hawking
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OK Tex. I've had it with your "fake news". We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it. Take a break for a month.
Dang it! Just when I had come to appreciate Tex's posts for what they were. One must read them not for their informational value--they have none, for they were never intended to convey actual information--but for their pure whimsical, artistic allure.
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Dang it! Just when I had come to appreciate Tex's posts for what they were. One must read them not for their informational value--they have none, for they were never intended to convey actual information--but for their pure whimsical, artistic allure.
Yep I can see what u saying
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We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.
So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.
Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.
There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.
The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.
In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').
The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!
Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.
If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.
That is an impressive post, but my toughts after reading it is that MUscoopers have sinned. They will be continued to punished by God until they repent. After all God is the central power of the univererse.
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OK Tex. I've had it with your "fake news". We gave you a second life here, and you've abused it. Take a break for a month.
I'm ALL for opinion of posters. But he was just downright ruthless on fire Wojo, everyone is wrong but in right, I know inside on every player in the country, MU sucks.
I could even accept his 0-5 takes. But we win 2 of the 5 (I was hoping for 3) and he freaks.
I will say this though, coming into this week, there were so many scoopers hoping for 2-1 out of this 3 game stretch. And we did get 2-1, with the loss coming to, what I honestly see is a top 10 UW team once all is said and done.
Should we have won? Possibly. And I upset? Nope I'm disappointed and really bummed but this team is better. But COME ON, 4 senior started with final four experience and HAPP. Was gonna be a tough go.
Keep strong and push on. Wojo has them on the right track.
Having said that, Wojo needs to work a bit on his defense for sure. But I have faith.
(I also claim no inside knowledge, and I played basketball for 3 years in middle school coming off the bench and scored a total of 2 points in those 3 years... so I'm just a fan. That loves his team and thinks Wojo is a great recruiter and a solid coach. But still has a ways to go)
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Start it now, why not ? Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?
You're afraid and fear makes you dumb so basically you're being dumb
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We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.
So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.
Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.
There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.
The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.
In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').
The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!
Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.
If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.
Christ! More Myron Metcalf type BS.
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Superbar!
We live in a wonderfully complex universe, and we are curious about it by nature. Time and again we have wondered--- why are we here? Where did we and the world come from? What is the world made of? It is our privilege to live in a time when enormous progress has been made towards finding some of the answers. String theory is our most recent attempt to answer the last (and part of the second) question.
So, what is the world made of? Ordinary matter is made of atoms, which are in turn made of just three basic components: electrons whirling around a nucleus composed of neutrons and protons. The electron is a truly fundamental particle (it is one of a family of particles known as leptons), but neutrons and protons are made of smaller particles, known as quarks. Quarks are, as far as we know, truly elementary.
Our current knowledge about the subatomic composition of the universe is summarized in what is known as the Standard Model of particle physics. It describes both the fundamental building blocks out of which the world is made, and the forces through which these blocks interact. There are twelve basic building blocks. Six of these are quarks--- they go by the interesting names of up, down, charm, strange, bottom and top. (A proton, for instance, is made of two up quarks and one down quark.) The other six are leptons--- these include the electron and its two heavier siblings, the muon and the tauon, as well as three neutrinos.
There are four fundamental forces in the universe: gravity, electromagnetism, and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Each of these is produced by fundamental particles that act as carriers of the force. The most familiar of these is the photon, a particle of light, which is the mediator of electromagnetic forces. (This means that, for instance, a magnet attracts a nail because both objects exchange photons.) The graviton is the particle associated with gravity. The strong force is carried by eight particles known as gluons. Finally, the weak force is transmitted by three particles, the W+, the W- , and the Z.
The behavior of all of these particles and forces is described with impeccable precision by the Standard Model, with one notable exception: gravity. For technical reasons, the gravitational force, the most familiar in our every day lives, has proven very difficult to describe microscopically. This has been for many years one of the most important problems in theoretical physics-- to formulate a quantum theory of gravity.
In the last few decades, string theory has emerged as the most promising candidate for a microscopic theory of gravity. And it is infinitely more ambitious than that: it attempts to provide a complete, unified, and consistent description of the fundamental structure of our universe. (For this reason it is sometimes, quite arrogantly, called a 'Theory of Everything').
The essential idea behind string theory is this: all of the different 'fundamental ' particles of the Standard Model are really just different manifestations of one basic object: a string. How can that be? Well, we would ordinarily picture an electron, for instance, as a point with no internal structure. A point cannot do anything but move. But, if string theory is correct, then under an extremely powerful 'microscope' we would realize that the electron is not really a point, but a tiny loop of string. A string can do something aside from moving--- it can oscillate in different ways. If it oscillates a certain way, then from a distance, unable to tell it is really a string, we see an electron. But if it oscillates some other way, well, then we call it a photon, or a quark, or a ... you get the idea. So, if string theory is correct, the entire world is made of strings!
Perhaps the most remarkable thing about string theory is that such a simple idea works--- it is possible to derive (an extension of) the Standard Model (which has been verified experimentally with incredible precision) from a theory of strings. But it should also be said that, to date, there is no direct experimental evidence that string theory itself is the correct description of Nature. This is mostly due to the fact that string theory is still under development. We know bits and pieces of it, but we do not yet see the whole picture, and we are therefore unable to make definite predictions. In recent years many exciting developments have taken place, radically improving our understanding of what the theory is.
If you want to learn more, visit the sites listed below. I also highly recommend the popular science book "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for The Ultimate Theory" (W. W. Norton & Company, 1999), written by Prof. Brian Greene, a well-established string theorist.
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So, unless I'm reading this wrong, you're saying the Standard Model requires firing Wojo?
I was simply trying to bring the average intelligence in this thread up to a 2nd grade level, but evidently, I'm going to have to discover cold fusion for that to happen.
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I was simply trying to bring the average intelligence in this thread up to a 2nd grade level, but evidently, I'm going to have to discover cold fusion for that to happen.
When I used to go out to start my Ford on a chilly Chicago morning, that was one cold Fusion.
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We lost to an experienced, ranked team, I get it. A win would have been great but it really wasn't expected. But that doesn't mean Wojo was playing with house money. You can take different paths to a 9 point loss, and there can be different take away's from those paths. Had UW gradually pulled away, maybe up 4 at 10:00, up 7 at half, up 11 at 30:00 and win by nine, yeah, nothing to feel to bad about, we were outplayed by the slightly better team. But to go from up 5 with 18:24 to go to down 15 with 9:24 is a different kind of thing. We lost those nine minutes 27 - 7. And this is, what, the third time in 10 games we've seen a stretch like this? I just don't see how its not on our coach when the team's collective brain shuts off for 25% of a game.
And it stings more because it's Bucky.
It Stings, because you let it Sting.
Very old Proverb "Pain is inevitable, Suffering is a Choice"
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In the spirit of internet memes.... I present the Fire Wojo series.
(http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q405/novakmu/fire-wojo-up_zpskmavqoeu.jpg)
(http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q405/novakmu/fire-wojo-out_zpsygwstxka.jpg)
(http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q405/novakmu/fire-wojo-is_zps51m3dqqj.jpg)
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Why fire wojo? He's been coaching fine just needs to coach defense
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Why fire wojo? He's been coaching fine just needs to coach defense
I don't want him fired. That's just the thread title. Also these memes prove I love him.
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(I also claim no inside knowledge, and I played basketball for 3 years in middle school coming off the bench and scored a total of 2 points in those 3 years... so I'm just a fan. That loves his team and thinks Wojo is a great recruiter and a solid coach. But still has a ways to go)
Don't sell yourself short - Ners would say that makes you a resident SME
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Why? Is it in this thread somewhere? Seems he's bringing the program back and talent level is going up
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Why? Is it in this thread somewhere? Seems he's bringing the program back and talent level is going up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hZJ4cotUWc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hZJ4cotUWc)
Basic impatience (no level headed Scooper is actually calling for Wojo's job they're just getting antsy), denial of the fact that with few exceptions consistent high level performance is near impossible to maintain in CBB (see above clip), some folks just don't like Wojo for whatever reason, and mix in a healthy level of trolling and you get this thread.
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Why? Is it in this thread somewhere? Seems he's bringing the program back and talent level is going up
Is the talent level actually going up? I believe someone averaged out the rankings and amount of top 100 (150?) recruits cream buzz and wojo all brought and found it was pretty in line with what we usually get which is a couple 50-100, round out the class with a non 100 four star maybe a three star here or there.
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Is the talent level actually going up? I believe someone averaged out the rankings and amount of top 100 (150?) recruits cream buzz and wojo all brought and found it was pretty in line with what we usually get which is a couple 50-100, round out the class with a non 100 four star maybe a three star here or there.
Look at the high school recruits from Buzz's first two classes and Wojo's first two classes. The talent level isn't just going up, it's a rocket shooting through the GD moon.
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Look at the high school recruits from Buzz's first two classes and Wojo's first two classes. The talent level isn't just going up, it's a rocket shooting through the GD moon.
For many, the cobbled together roster that achieved greatly on the court vastly overshadowed the real difficulty Buzz had in evaluating, and eventually landing, high school talent. He simply does a poor job with this component of the position.
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For many, the cobbled together roster that achieved greatly on the court vastly overshadowed the real difficulty Buzz had in evaluating, and eventually landing, high school talent. He simply does a poor job with this component of the position.
Hopefully with the last scholarship for 2017 we could get a transfer or juco player maybe. Then 2018 get Joey
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Hopefully with the last scholarship for 2017 we could get a transfer or juco player maybe. Then 2018 get Joey
To be clear, there's technically 2 slots available this Spring. I don't think anyone expects that both would go to incoming Frosh but that remains a possibility.
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Make the NCAA tourney and solid grad transfers will come to that open spot.
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For many, the cobbled together roster that achieved greatly on the court vastly overshadowed the real difficulty Buzz had in evaluating, and eventually landing, high school talent. He simply does a poor job with this component of the position.
Ahmed Hill & Marial Shayok would look pretty nice in MU unis right now
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Ahmed Hill & Marial Shayok would look pretty nice in MU unis right now
We already have that in Haany & Howard.
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Look at the high school recruits from Buzz's first two classes and Wojo's first two classes. The talent level isn't just going up, it's a rocket shooting through the GD moon.
In terms of talent evaluation I believe Wojo is better and grabbing better recruits but Cadougan, Williams, Maymonne, Blue and Jones were all top 100s and for the most part rated higher than Houser, Haanif and Bailey are. In terms of national perception Buzz's players were a lot more lauded than what Wojo's brought in. I think Wojo knows who's more likely to pan out but perceptionwise it hasn't changed much.
Buzz brought in: Cadougan, Williams, Maymonne, Blue, Jones, Taylor, *Wilson (former top 100), Burton, Johnson, D Wilson, *Fischer (former top 100) and Sandy
Also got commits from top 100 Harri, Hill, Noskowiak though circumstances sent them elsewhere.
Wojo brought in: Haanif, Ellenson, Hauser, Bailey, *Reinhardt (former top 100), Howard (hard to give an accurate rating of if he'd have been a burger boy or what)
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That's part of the problem. Buzz brought in guys who were overrated, Wojo is bringing in guys that are good at basketball.
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I'm watching Ben Howland's Bulldogs play against E. Tennessee St.
a - VERY empty arena in Starkville - if anyone wants to argue that there is any competition for your entertainment dollar in Starkville, MS other than a Miss St athletic event, i'm all ears.
b - if this ref crew was assigned any MU game Luke wouldn't get 3 fouls in any game
c - Miss St. lost at home to E. Tenn St.
d - clearly there needs to be a firing in Mississippi
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z - we all wish the BODs would've been rational and taken one of these types of proven coaches
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Buzz brought in guys who were overrated, Wojo is bringing in guys that are good at basketball.
Guess that's why Buzz's teams sucked and Wojo's are winning championships.
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Guess that's why Buzz's teams sucked and Wojo's are winning championships.
Please, go through their high school recruits and tell me how that's an incorrect statement.
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Please, go through their high school recruits and tell me how that's an incorrect statement.
I don't count HE as a high school player - to me he was Matt Carlino or Katin Reinhardt, a one year transfer.
That leaves Matt Heldt, Traci Carter and HC from class #1. HC was pretty good at playing basketball as a freshman, not very good so far this year. Traci was "meh", Matt's a little less than that.
This year's two are better. Sam can play and Markus can really play.
Of the three guys next year I don't see any sure things.
Lots of Buzz's guys were either overrated or didn't have the toughness required to make it in his program - I'll grant you that. From what I've seen, that toughness isn't as much a requirement with Wojo.
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I don't count HE as a high school player - to me he was Matt Carlino or Katin Reinhardt, a one year transfer.
"My point is correct only if I get to redefine words."
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"My point is correct only if I get to redefine words."
I'm not even saying my point is correct, just offering opinions.
But I do stand by the premise that a one and done, whether from high school, college transfer or grad transfer is a category unto itself. High school guys I expect 4 years from, Jucos 2 or 3 depending when they arrive - one and dones obviously 1. IMO how long you'll have a player skews their worth.
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Given that certain schools who have won multiple national championships have found one and dones out of high school to be transformative, I'm not sure you can so easily equate a "played one year and was then a first round NBA draft pick" to a "graduate transfer on his third school who is unlikely to play basketball again except pick up games at the Y." Henry's problem wasn't lack of a multi year commitment to the team, it was timing. It would have been better had he come when we had a solid core of experienced players to make the most of his ability. Wish we had him for this year or next year instead.
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I don't count HE as a high school player - to me he was Matt Carlino or Katin Reinhardt, a one year transfer.
That leaves Matt Heldt, Traci Carter and HC from class #1. HC was pretty good at playing basketball as a freshman, not very good so far this year. Traci was "meh", Matt's a little less than that.
This year's two are better. Sam can play and Markus can really play.
Of the three guys next year I don't see any sure things.
Lots of Buzz's guys were either overrated or didn't have the toughness required to make it in his program - I'll grant you that. From what I've seen, that toughness isn't as much a requirement with Wojo.
Buzz's first class was Junior Cadougan, Jeronne Maymon, Erik Williams, and Youssoupha Mbao. Traci was better than Junior after two seasons, Henry was better than Maymon, Haanif is better than Williams, and Heldt is better than Mbao. Buzz's second class was Vander, Jamail Jones, Reggie Smith, and Davante. At least as freshmen, I'd take Howard and Hauser over Vander and Jones.
That leaves Sacar Anim from Wojo's first class and Smith and Gardner from Buzz's second class. Anim hasn't offered much, but it's been more than Smith. Will any of next year's recruits be the next Davante? We can only hope, but if Buzz is winning one out of 8 comparisons, I think it's safe to say Wojo is a better evaluator and recruiter of high school talent.
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Who got more out of his players?
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Who got more out of his players?
High school players? Wojo. Unless Buzz got bonuses for the frequent flier miles they racked up when they left.
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That's part of the problem. Buzz brought in guys who were overrated, Wojo is bringing in guys that are good at basketball.
I think Wojo is bringing in high IQ guys, but then I watch UW get several wide open shots under the basket when MU is not smart enough to do the proper switching. Maybe recruiting good shooters versus recruiting lower skilled, but more athletic switchables is not as good as we think it is.
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bilsu
The two freshmen are high basketball IQ guys and I like that big time. Plus they are athletic and basketball players. They are two kids that I believe can be very, very solid building blocks for the future.
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bilsu
The two freshmen are high basketball IQ guys and I like that big time. Plus they are athletic and basketball players. They are two kids that I believe can be very, very solid building blocks for the future.
Goose - high IQ? I think so. Basketball players? Definitely. Athletic? I'd say solid but not uber athletic (could be wrong about Marcus). IMHO our entire team's biggest shortcoming is a lack of elite athleticism.
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Goose - high IQ? I think so. Basketball players? Definitely. Athletic? I'd say solid but not uber athletic (could be wrong about Marcus). IMHO our entire team's biggest shortcoming is a lack of elite athleticism.
I don't know. I don't recall 'Nova as being elite athletes last year and that turned out kinda okay.
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You know we lost (to UW, no less) with a long break until the next game when there's a 7-page thread titled "Fire Wojo."
[Oh no, I'm contributing to its length.]
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I don't count HE as a high school player - to me he was Matt Carlino or Katin Reinhardt, a one year transfer.
That leaves Matt Heldt, Traci Carter and HC from class #1. HC was pretty good at playing basketball as a freshman, not very good so far this year. Traci was "meh", Matt's a little less than that.
This year's two are better. Sam can play and Markus can really play.
Of the three guys next year I don't see any sure things.
Lots of Buzz's guys were either overrated or didn't have the toughness required to make it in his program - I'll grant you that. From what I've seen, that toughness isn't as much a requirement with Wojo.
HC is averaging 12/5/3 (rounded) on a 47/33/88 slash line. He has also cut his turnovers down from 2.7 to 1.0 per game. He's fine. He's had a few poor games, but overall he's been good.
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Lenny
Athletic enough because they have the IQ and basketball skills. If you have those two nailed it makes things much easier.
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Jacking up 3 pointers.
Wow, one of a few dozen teams shooting over 40 percent on 3s, 11 th best shooting (eFG) in country and 15th best offense in country. Two of three freshman in the country try hitting g 50 percent of threes. Strange attack line there.
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Lenny
Athletic enough because they have the IQ and basketball skills. If you have those two nailed it makes things much easier.
Could not agree more. Athleticism can be built. Basketball skills can be taught though not as easily as athleticism can be built. Basketball IQ is a you have it or you don't.
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I don't know. I don't recall 'Nova as being elite athletes last year and that turned out kinda okay.
Maybe not quite "North Carolina" athletic but way more athletic (and much stronger physically) than us.
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Maybe not quite "North Carolina" athletic but way more athletic (and much stronger physically) than us.
I agree with "much stronger" but not "way more athletic" than us. Jenkins and Brunson are slow. Arch got by on smarts. Chef was down the line average athletically. Hart is above average but not special athletic. Booth and Bridges are good athletes.
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stay sane scoop
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Great bump. Bwahahaha
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Wojobu just said "f**k you Scoop and he did it himself
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Lol this is great.
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Lotta people had some pretty strong opinions in this thread and are nowhere to be found tonight. I'm willing to bet they don't show up for a while either
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Lotta people had some pretty strong opinions in this thread and are nowhere to be found tonight. I'm willing to bet they don't show up for a while either
Bingo.
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Start it now, why not ? Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall????????
i couldn't help myself...let's see, how much $pub$ did this generate? waiting..... ::) ::)
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Wojo to Duke.
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start it now, why not? i vote we fire mcderjim
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I don't see the fire in Wojo that I remember when he was a tough, top notch Duke PG. Kevin O'Neill had fire from Day 1, when we were at our lowest after years of incompetence. Sure, I understand he was 'improper' at times. And I understand Wojo has the youngest team around (as O'Neill had against Duke). But damn, show some fire. (Afraid you may screw up your future dream job ?) Duane needs a kick up the butt. jJJ needs to go to Div 3. We lost by 30 which could have been 50 ..make a point! Mediocrity can only be accepted for so long.
Fire whiskey in O'Neill doesn't count. Sojourn has plenty of fire
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I think the FW crowd cancelled today's meeting, stay tuned for the next session
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Fire whiskey in O'Neill doesn't count. Sojourn has plenty of fire
Hi, Jamie.
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Hi, Jamie.
Pretty sure this guy defended buzz in another thread. Couldn't be him
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Trigger warning:
Bump
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Cough....
Cough.....
Cough
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Cough....
Oh don't worry...they'll be back...after the next loss. Unless MU wins the national championship this year! They'll they'll be back sometime in November. Or when he doesn't sign a top rated recruit.
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Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.
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Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.
It has to be this year.
Funny that you have Mid Major Mike Deane in you monikor. He and Dukiet were the 2 laziest piece of crap recruiters MU has had in the last 70 years.
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Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.
Basketball Prospectus did an article a few years ago that showed 3PA was correlated with winning in higher seeded in the tournament. That's attempts, not makes.
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Oh don't worry...they'll be back...after the next loss. Unless MU wins the national championship this year! They'll they'll be back sometime in November. Or when he doesn't sign a top rated recruit.
Rocky, you have the power....
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Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.
Is that all you have.
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Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.
Many teams have had success in the tournament by this montra look at Jon beilien's teams at WV. That doesn't mean I'm in support of living by the 3, just saying there are instances when it has lead to tournament success
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Live and die by the 3 point shot ...... not a valid NCAA tournament success mantra.
Just about the only opinion ole DarkGlasses has said that I agree with.
We will not go past the first round unless Fishy is a bigger part of our offense and we match the threes with a slashing offense.
JjJ has to be engaged and play defense.
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We're the kind of team that no coach is really comfortable facing in a 1-and-done scenario.
We can be playing pretty bad and be down by a dozen. Then we get a 3, a steal, a 3, a stop, a 3 ... and it's a one-possession game in a matter of 30-40 seconds.
Obviously, we can have poor games, too, and we have. I'm just saying we're a confounding bunch.
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This is exactly the type of team that beats a #1 or 2 seed in the second round of the tourney. Not consistent enough for a sustained run but I would be terrified of us in the tourney as a high seed.
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Not to rain on anyone's parade, but since beating Nova on their worst shooting night in a really, really, really long time at home, we've lost to St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Georgetown and beaten DePaul and a Xavier team without its 2 best players and having their 3rd (or 4th, if you want to say Macura is better than Gaston) limited to 22 minutes while another rotational player went down with an injury in the first half.
I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.
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I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.
I would.
Marquette has proven that on any given day, we can beat the best teams in the country, especially if we start lighting up the threes.
If Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon want to dismiss us, they do so at their own peril.
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Not to rain on anyone's parade, but since beating Nova on their worst shooting night in a really, really, really long time at home, we've lost to St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Georgetown and beaten DePaul and a Xavier team without its 2 best players and having their 3rd (or 4th, if you want to say Macura is better than Gaston) limited to 22 minutes while another rotational player went down with an injury in the first half.
I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.
That says a lot, I would add that the game was not officiated in a typical Big East fashion. It was officiated even handedly, but X was not allowed to employ their usual bullying style (Big East) and therefore, did not impose their will.
I think the refs tell the coaches and therefore teams what style of reffing to expect. The refs did not let much slide by.
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That says a lot, I would add that the game was not officiated in a typical Big East fashion. It was officiated even handedly, but X was not allowed to employ their usual bullying style (Big East) and therefore, did not impose their will.
I think the refs tell the coaches and therefore teams what style of reffing to expect. The refs did not let much slide by.
We won because of lousy officiating! ::)
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We won because of lousy officiating! ::)
NO, NO, NO.
I may not be a world class speller, but I can write. The officiating was a different style applied even handedly. That is not the officiating style I witnessed against St. Johns in NYC. The problem is that our style of play is not typical Big East basketball.
When Al McGuire snubed the NCAA tournament in favor of the NIT it was because he did not want to play out of his region. It had to do with the style of officiating.
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NO, NO, NO.
I may not be a world class speller, but I can write. The officiating was a different style applied even handedly. That is not the officiating style I witnessed against St. Johns in NYC. The problem is that our style of play is not typical Big East basketball.
Newsflash...college basketball refereeing is inconsistent.
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Not to rain on anyone's parade, but since beating Nova on their worst shooting night in a really, really, really long time at home, we've lost to St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Georgetown and beaten DePaul and a Xavier team without its 2 best players and having their 3rd (or 4th, if you want to say Macura is better than Gaston) limited to 22 minutes while another rotational player went down with an injury in the first half.
I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.
Wish I could disagree but I'm afraid you're right.
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How did Al know how the refs in a different region would officiate?
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I would.
Marquette has proven that on any given day, we can beat the best teams in the country, especially if we start lighting up the threes.
If Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon want to dismiss us, they do so at their own peril.
Unfortunately all we've really proven is that on our home court if our good shooting opponent shoots 6 for 34 from 3 we can take advantage and beat them in the last possession of the game. I'm guessing Jay Wright is willing to concede that in a 1 and done situation if his team shoots 16% from 3 his team is probably on the "done" side of things, whether it's against Marquette or South Carolina.
I hope we get the chance to find out. I guess my point is the Nova game had less to do with us shooting the lights out and more to do with them shooting beyond horrendously, and they still had to give up a 17 point second half lead. To our credit, we took advantage and had a ginormous win. But if I were Jay and saw MU as the 8 seed in my bracket I'm not overly concerned.
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Unfortunately all we've really proven is that on our home court if our good shooting opponent shoots 6 for 34 from 3 we can take advantage and beat them in the last possession of the game. I'm guessing Jay Wright is willing to concede that in a 1 and done situation if his team shoots 16% from 3 his team is probably on the "done" side of things, whether it's against Marquette or South Carolina.
I hope we get the chance to find out. I guess my point is the Nova game had less to do with us shooting the lights out and more to do with them shooting beyond horrendously, and they still had to give up a 17 point second half lead. To our credit, we took advantage and had a ginormous win. But if I were Jay and saw MU as the 8 seed in my bracket I'm not overly concerned.
I hope we get to find out!
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I would.
Marquette has proven that on any given day, we can beat the best teams in the country, especially if we start lighting up the threes.
If Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon want to dismiss us, they do so at their own peril.
Of course they've also proven on any given day we can lose to some of the worst teams in the country (well, conference).
It's good that we beat X. Now we have to beat the team that clubbed us by 14. It's fun to still be talking about meaningful basketball in late February, but I think if there's one thing we know about this team it's that we can't take any W or L for granted.
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Unfortunately all we've really proven is that on our home court if our good shooting opponent shoots 6 for 34 from 3 we can take advantage and beat them in the last possession of the game. I'm guessing Jay Wright is willing to concede that in a 1 and done situation if his team shoots 16% from 3 his team is probably on the "done" side of things, whether it's against Marquette or South Carolina.
I hope we get the chance to find out. I guess my point is the Nova game had less to do with us shooting the lights out and more to do with them shooting beyond horrendously, and they still had to give up a 17 point second half lead. To our credit, we took advantage and had a ginormous win. But if I were Jay and saw MU as the 8 seed in my bracket I'm not overly concerned.
Unless Voodoo has something to do with it and it probably doesn't.
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Not to rain on anyone's parade, but since beating Nova on their worst shooting night in a really, really, really long time at home, we've lost to St. John's, Providence, Butler, and Georgetown and beaten DePaul and a Xavier team without its 2 best players and having their 3rd (or 4th, if you want to say Macura is better than Gaston) limited to 22 minutes while another rotational player went down with an injury in the first half.
I don't think I'd be exactly shaking in my boots about the possibility of facing Marquette if I were a Kansas, Nova, UNC, or Oregon at the moment.
I agree with the 2nd part but I'm done listening to everyone minimizing the Xavier win. We're going to say that they were missing two of their best players? Fine. We were missing one of our best players with a DNC-CD. We're going to say their 4th best player fouled out? Fine. Then I'm going to say arguably our best player in Luke was limited to 12 minutes because he fouled out in limited minutes.
We got nothing from one of our seniors. We got virtually nothing from another senior. Katin played minutes but was mostly inneffective. Our backup center also fouled out. And we won by 22.
Sumner is out for the season. No changing that. But they've had a few games to learn how to play without him. It sucks that Bluiett was out, he's one of my favorite players in the league. But we can't maximize his absence and minimize JJ's DNP.
We destroyed a shorthanded team and we shot below our season average from the field and from 3. Even if you knew for sure that Bluiett was going to be out, nobody here would have guessed a 22 point dismantling while we shot below our season averages and got a total of 31 minutes, 7 points, and 3-10 shooting from our 3 seniors.
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I agree with the 2nd part but I'm done listening to everyone minimizing the Xavier win. We're going to say that they were missing two of their best players? Fine. We were missing one of our best players with a DNC-CD. We're going to say their 4th best player fouled out? Fine. Then I'm going to say arguably our best player in Luke was limited to 12 minutes because he fouled out in limited minutes.
We got nothing from one of our seniors. We got virtually nothing from another senior. Katin played minutes but was mostly inneffective. Our backup center also fouled out. And we won by 22.
Sumner is out for the season. No changing that. But they've had a few games to learn how to play without him. It sucks that Bluiett was out, he's one of my favorite players in the league. But we can't maximize his absence and minimize JJ's DNP.
We destroyed a shorthanded team and we shot below our season average from the field and from 3. Even if you knew for sure that Bluiett was going to be out, nobody here would have guessed a 22 point dismantling while we shot below our season averages and got a total of 31 minutes, 7 points, and 3-10 shooting from our 3 seniors.
If I knew JP Macura would be their best player on the court I would've guessed around a 20 point win at home. We had all players available. Wojo played the guys that gave us our best chance to win.
We played great. We also played a Xavier team that is a shell of what had it ranked in the top 10 early this year. If the squad they had available on Saturday was the squad the had from November on, they'd be fighting it out with DePaul for 10th place in the BE.
Doesn't mean we didn't play well or didn't take advantage of that.
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NO, NO, NO.
I may not be a world class speller, but I can write. The officiating was a different style applied even handedly. That is not the officiating style I witnessed against St. Johns in NYC. The problem is that our style of play is not typical Big East basketball.
When Al McGuire snubed the NCAA tournament in favor of the NIT it was because he did not want to play out of his region. It had to do with the style of officiating.
It was more about playing in the Midwest, far away from MKE, rather than the Mideast, which took Notre Dame (which beat us by a point in double OT at their place) and Jacksonville (which played nobody all year). The following year we were back in the Mideast and got completely hosed by officials in Athens, Ga.
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Impossible to to know, but the way I look at it, Blueitt and Sumner's presence would not have amounted to 23 more points for Xavier or 23 less points for us (or some combination of the two). Ergo, it was a good win. If we had only managed a single digit victory I would feel otherwise.
However, it is just one game. Doesn't mean we're better than X. Just outplayed them on Saturday. Could be totally different case when we go down to their place.
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TAMU
It was nice win for the fella's and great weekend for the University. Hard to tell what happens if X is full strength and really does not matter. They took care of the business at hand on Saturday night.
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TAMU
It was nice win for the fella's and great weekend for the University. Hard to tell what happens if X is full strength and really does not matter. They took care of the business at hand on Saturday night.
This.
Any team can only play the opponent on the court. The Warriors could have gone in overconfident, Markus could have missed 9 of 12, etc etc etc. Instead, they did what they had to do.
Next!
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This.
Any team can only play the opponent on the court. The Warriors could have gone in overconfident, Markus could have missed 9 of 12, etc etc etc. Instead, they did what they had to do.
Next!
MU came out and did what they had to do, they have to do the same to the Johnnies. We saw happened to MU at the Garden, down 15-7 or so and never climbed
back into the game. X did make a comeback but for a change MU took the first 4 minutes in the second half and keeped up playing strong the rest of the way. X
could blow us out at there place and it would not surprise me. Beating the Johnnies and Providence will decide MU fate to the tourney. Already beating Creighton
and X has been done, but losing twice to those other two would not good in the eyes of selection committee.
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With a couple of exceptions - which can and will happen to any coach - I think Wojo has had a very good season and has shown a lot of progress as a coach.
The impressive win over the Johnnies was yet another example of him making this his team and getting very positive results from most of the roster.
I am high on this program's future, and Wojo is one of the main reasons why.
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With a couple of exceptions - which can and will happen to any coach - I think Wojo has had a very good season and has shown a lot of progress as a coach.
The impressive win over the Johnnies was yet another example of him making this his team and getting very positive results from most of the roster.
I am high on this program's future, and Wojo is one of the main reasons why.
Wojo only takes the easy rebuilds.
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With a couple of exceptions - which can and will happen to any coach - I think Wojo has had a very good season and has shown a lot of progress as a coach.
The impressive win over the Johnnies was yet another example of him making this his team and getting very positive results from most of the roster.
I am high on this program's future, and Wojo is one of the main reasons why.
Oh what a few weeks can do to public opinion. Should St. John's leave the Big East? At least we got some wood burning over the past week, fire is a good thing.
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If only he could coach bigs.
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Last night was Wojo's 50th win with MU.
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Oh what a few weeks can do to public opinion. Should St. John's leave the Big East? At least we got some wood burning over the past week, fire is a good thing.
Few weeks? Try 3 days!
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Oh what a few weeks can do to public opinion.
My public opinion, stated probably 100+ times in ScoopLand, was one urging patience and expressing optimism regarding Wojo.
So, as the shot blockers say, get that shyte outta here.
Now, it's true that many of our colleagues have been all over the place on our coach's performance and potential. And a deluded few even still insist that Wojo inherited a fine situation from Buzz and ripped him for being unable to accomplish what Jay Wright, Coach K, Calhoun, Al, Rollie, Lefty, Lute, K.O., etc, etc, etc also didn't accomplish early in their coaching careers.
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MU82
I agree with much of you say regarding patience. That said, I really do think how the fella's perform the next couple weeks will tell how much patience should be acceptable. If they play hard and compete I am OK with finding silver lining, regardless of wins or losses. If they stink the joint up, the patience level shrinks for me.
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MU82
I agree with much of you say regarding patience. That said, I really do think how the fella's perform the next couple weeks will tell how much patience should be acceptable. If they play hard and compete I am OK with finding silver lining, regardless of wins or losses. If they stink the joint up, the patience level shrinks for me.
We'll leave the light on for ya.
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Loose
Huh?
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Loose
Huh?
Just don't want you to write us off if things go the stinky way for the last 3 games. I see a lot of good thing this season, no matter what happens in the last 3 game. I'm all in on the 5 year window.
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Last night was Wojo's 50th win with MU.
Ners would have done that in one season.
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Loose
I am giving Wojo far more patience than I would normally give a coach. That said, if the patience level rises with hard work and competitive two weeks, I think only fair to have things diminish if they stink the joint up. IMO there really is has been some fun moments, but overall a C grade from me. They live and die by the three ball and not how to build long term success, IMO.
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Loose
I am giving Wojo far more patience than I would normally give a coach. That said, if the patience level rises with hard work and competitive two weeks, I think only fair to have things diminish if they stink the joint up. IMO there really is has been some fun moments, but overall a C grade from me. They live and die by the three ball and not how to build long term success, IMO.
Living by the 3 ball is how you win in basketball nowadays.
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Loose
I am giving Wojo far more patience than I would normally give a coach. That said, if the patience level rises with hard work and competitive two weeks, I think only fair to have things diminish if they stink the joint up. IMO there really is has been some fun moments, but overall a C grade from me. They live and die by the three ball and not how to build long term success, IMO.
Sorry Goose, I'm more patience, I see the glass more than half full, I see Wojo right on track for a MU success. I'm comfortable with a 5 year window.
I'm sure I can't convince you, but next season there might be more to add to our 3 ball attack. Anyways "Light On" so we can keep your views on this Board. Thanks
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Loose
There will not be more three point shooting next year. We can take 50 threes a game and it would not bother me in the least if they knew how to play D. Our live and die by the three this year is magnified by an inability to play D. Play tough D and they can chuck three's all day long.
This year the three ball is the only tool in the tool belt. Hence my giving the season a C.
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There will not be more three point shooting next year. We can 50 threes a game and it would not bother me in the least if they knew how to play D. Our live and die by the three this year is magnified by an inability to play D. Play tough D and they can chuck three's all day long.
Our top three shooters in terms of three-point percentage and makes are back next year. Haanif and Duane are both able shooters who could make up for the losses of JJ and Reinhardt. I'm not saying we'll exceed this year in 2017-18, but it's not impossible, especially if Cain can make threes or we add another grad transfer with range.
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Brew
I know who is back and my point was based off who we are losing. My point was more in general that it would be hard to get off more threes in 40 minute game. I guess it could be equal, but my guess it will be lower. Again, play some hard nose full court D and chuck away.
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Our top three shooters in terms of three-point percentage and makes are back next year. Haanif and Duane are both able shooters who could make up for the losses of JJ and Reinhardt. I'm not saying we'll exceed this year in 2017-18, but it's not impossible, especially if Cain can make threes or we add another grad transfer with range.
I agree, will be as good as last year, and still there might be another grad transfer. If Heldt improves 10% percent more, there might be some inside play as well.
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If anything, we aren't shooting enough 3s this season.
We rank 4th nationally in 3-point pct (.419, just two ticks off of No. 1) but we are only 75th in treys attempted.
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If anything, we aren't shooting enough 3s this season.
We rank 4th nationally in 3-point pct (.419, just two ticks off of No. 1) but we are only 75th in treys attempted.
If you sink them, you don't need as many attempts.
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Living by the 3 ball is how you win in basketball nowadays.
What is the history of the 3 point line? My recollection is that it was created to give mid-majors a chance to be competitive.
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Living by the 3 ball is how you win in basketball nowadays.
Hmm...of the top 40 teams in the country in terms of getting there highest percentage of their points beyond the arc, only 3 (Michigan, Marquette, Notre Dame) are ranked in the top 40 in the country.
I looked at offensive efficiency, and those three were the only three that were top 40 in both percentage of points beyond the arc and offensive efficiency.
Living by the three may be one way to win, but it's certainly not the only nor most popular way. FWIW, there are five teams in the top 40 that have sub-300 adjusted offensive efficiency rankings.
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Hmm...of the top 40 teams in the country in terms of getting there highest percentage of their points beyond the arc, only 3 (Michigan, Marquette, Notre Dame) are ranked in the top 40 in the country.
I looked at offensive efficiency, and those three were the only three that were top 40 in both percentage of points beyond the arc and offensive efficiency.
Living by the three may be one way to win, but it's certainly not the only nor most popular way. FWIW, there are five teams in the top 40 that have sub-300 adjusted offensive efficiency rankings.
Of the teams that will play in the NCAA tournament, and are not in the top 40, how many of them are 3 point shooting teams?
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(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/3/38/Abe.png)
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Of the teams that will play in the NCAA tournament, and are not in the top 40, how many of them are 3 point shooting teams?
I'm not sure what you are asking. Too vague.
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If you sink them, you don't need as many attempts.
It's what we do best by far, Khaleesi. Our lads should be firing up more of 'em!
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I'm not sure what you are asking. Too vague.
Most teams in the NCAA are from top conferences and are highly rated. Then we have the other teams mostly from minor conferences.
Of those teams how many made it to the tournament by being good or outstanding 3 point shooting teams.
My theory is that Wojoe went on a recruiting kick to bring in gunners who could shoot. Considering that last year we had a lack of shooting ability compared to this year, his strategy has worked, so far.
Your analysis that shows that only 3 teams in the top 40 are outstanding 3 point shooting teams is well taken. Now how about the other teams, the mid-majors, or whatever we want to call them.
My point is that the 3 point line was initiated to let those teams be competitive with one or two gunners.
The, in-the-mean-time strategy of MU has worked. As we put together a more balanced attack we play 3 ball. Am I, "statistically speaking" off the beam?
No need to make fun of my years spent in the Vogue world, it made me very vague, ha. Thanks.
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Most teams in the NCAA are from top conferences and are highly rated. Then we have the other teams mostly from minor conferences.
Of those teams how many made it to the tournament by being good or outstanding 3 point shooting teams.
My theory is that Wojoe went on a recruiting kick to bring in gunners who could shoot. Considering that last year we had a lack of shooting ability compared to this year, his strategy has worked, so far.
Your analysis that shows that only 3 teams in the top 40 are outstanding 3 point shooting teams is well taken. Now how about the other teams, the mid-majors, or whatever we want to call them.
My point is that the 3 point line was initiated to let those teams be competitive with one or two gunners.
The, in-the-mean-time strategy of MU has worked. As we put together a more balanced attack we play 3 ball. Am I, "statistically speaking" off the beam?
No need to make fun of my years spent in the Vogue world, it made me very vague, ha. Thanks.
This is one possibility... the other is that he saw Golden State wipe the floor with everybody in the NBA and said "Hey what if we did that in college"
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The purpose of loading your teams with three point shooters isn't just so you can get more points from shooting three, but the threat of the three opens up driving lanes and the inside game. The problem with Marquette is that, while the shooting has been great, the inside scoring hasn't always been as effective.
Put another way, you need to have multiple, serious threats from the outside to win in college basketball (or in the NBA for that matter.) That doesn't mean that outside shooting is the only way that these threats will help improve your scoring.
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This is one possibility... the other is that he saw Golden State wipe the floor with everybody in the NBA and said "Hey what if we did that in college"
I think it's more of a carryover from Coach K. I would expect it to be a Big part of Wojo's teams going forward. If he can recruit them.
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I think it's more of a carryover from Coach K. I would expect it to be a Big part of Wojo's teams going forward. If he can recruit them.
How true, making MU great again, we could be scary good.
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I still cling to the notion that Stan can get us to the promised land faster than his boss
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How true, making MU great again, we could be scary good.
never thought of "the donald" as a basketball coach, but then again, weirder things have happened, ey ey eyn'er hey? betcha the term "all american" will be the next term needing to be changed ::)
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What is the history of the 3 point line? My recollection is that it was created to give mid-majors a chance to be competitive.
actually it was first developed/introduced in 1945 by abe saperstein in an NCAA game between fordam and columbia. so i guess it lasted only one game at this level. then the american basketball became the first league to institute it in 1961 followed by the eastern professional league in 1963-64 and later popularized by the ABA in 1967-68. the NBA adopted it in 1979-80. the NCAA's southern conference was the first collegiate conference to adopt it in 1980-81. the NCAA as a whole didn't adopt it as a whole until 1986-87. followed by high schools, junior and elementary schools
the main theory was to give the smaller player a chance to score from the outside and thus, opening up the inside to provide more scoring and to enhance the fans overall experience
i didn't see anything related to giving the "mid-majors" a chance at anything specific, but basketball as a whole.
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Bump ...
Senior class leadership sucks ! Undeveloped talent or just don't care. At least Cohen and Wilson just sucked as Bball players
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the main theory was to give the smaller player a chance to score from the outside and thus, opening up the inside to provide more scoring and to enhance the fans overall experience
I think a big part of it was to provide a way for skill to beat sheer size.
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I still cling to the notion that Stan can get us to the promised land faster than his boss
Agreed! Fire the incompetent so he can find a job for which he is suited,,, ASSistant coach!
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There are losers and winners and I think we are all tired of losing and blowing games. The blame needs to be put where it belongs. Sorry if this offends/triggers you.
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And here we are again
Lose a road big east game = fire wojo
win = you guys never post.
The criticism is not that you are not allowed to voice your opinion. Many of us just wonder why you never seem to voice an opinion that seems to be enjoying MU hoops?
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There are losers and winners and I think we are all tired of losing and blowing games. The blame needs to be put where it belongs. Sorry if this offends/triggers you.
F*ck off, one poster.
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And here we are again
Lose a road big east game = fire wojo
win = you guys never post.
The criticism is not that you are not allowed to voice your opinion. Many of us just wonder why you never seem to voice an opinion that seems to be enjoying MU hoops?
It's not so much that we lost, it's how we lost. Play hard and lose by 8 and you say, "well that's the way it goes." But the way we lose many of these game is just infuriating and you want to blame someone, and it feels better to get angry with the guy getting paid 7 figures rather than 17-22 year olds.
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F*ck off, one poster.
If only our team played with this kind of fire...
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Wojo can still meet expectations for the season, but his margin for error is now obviously smaller.
Just SSSSOOO frustrating that this could easily be a 22-6 team and we're talking about if we're going to be a protected seed or not.
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F*ck off, one poster.
Triggered. Can't handle the truth. Didn't mean to intrude on your safe space.
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And here we are again
Lose a road big east game = fire wojo
win = you guys never post.
The criticism is not that you are not allowed to voice your opinion. Many of us just wonder why you never seem to voice an opinion that seems to be enjoying MU hoops?
maybe our expectations are higher than yours.
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Triggered. Can't handle the truth. Didn't mean to intrude on your safe space.
You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap. You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!
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maybe our expectations are higher than yours.
That really has nothing to do with his point.
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Hmm...of the top 40 teams in the country in terms of getting there highest percentage of their points beyond the arc, only 3 (Michigan, Marquette, Notre Dame) are ranked in the top 40 in the country.
I looked at offensive efficiency, and those three were the only three that were top 40 in both percentage of points beyond the arc and offensive efficiency.
Living by the three may be one way to win, but it's certainly not the only nor most popular way. FWIW, there are five teams in the top 40 that have sub-300 adjusted offensive efficiency rankings.
Need to mix in some solid D to go with the shooting.
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For MU to be 22-6 right now they'd had to have won every game decided by 7 points or less. So 8-0 in those games. They're 3-5. To say they should maybe be a win better right now because of too many close losses is plenty realistic. But gotta factor in tight wins over Fresno, nova and SH at home when determining how MU has been in close games this year. 3-2 in those games at home. 0-3 in those games road/neutral.
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maybe our expectations are higher than yours.
maybe we don't scream ecstatically every time we win a game we're supposed too but are bitterly disappointed when we blow a 12 point lead in a must win game.
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Need to mix in some solid D to go with the shooting.
More players with lateral quickness would help.
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For MU to be 22-6 right now they'd had to have won every game decided by 7 points or less. So 8-0 in those games. They're 3-5. To say they should maybe be a win better right now because of too many close losses is plenty realistic. But gotta factor in tight wins over Fresno, nova and SH at home when determining how MU has been in close games this year. 3-2 in those games at home. 0-3 in those games road/neutral.
I think the best you could realistically say if we won the four games we blew (Pitt, @Butler, @SHU, @Prov) and lost the one we stole (Nova) we'd be 20-8. And even saying we blew the SHU game is a stretch, as we had a lead late but not more than a one possession lead. But unfortunately, we are what our record says we are.
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We may be good, we may be skilled, but we are not yet intimidators. A few years and a little more ink and we will be fine.
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maybe we don't scream ecstatically every time we win a game we're supposed too but are bitterly disappointed when we blow a 12 point lead in a must win game.
I think you quoted the wrong post. But not targeted at you. There are a few that ONLY post here to exclaim they'd like to fire wojo or that something is wrong with the program.
I've got plenty of patience for people willing to discuss things reasonably. None for people that just register today to throw sh*t.
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F*ck off, one poster.
I agree but would not use the same words. MU played hard under difficult conditions against a desperate team on their home court. MU has work to do on defense but there has been improvement. The season is not over. I have been very critical of Wojo but he deserves credit for pulling this team together. Not all losses are the same. I am optimistic this team can win the next two if they just reduce the number of simple mistakes.
I am keeping the faith.
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I think the best you could realistically say if we won the four games we blew (Pitt, @Butler, @SHU, @Prov) and lost the one we stole (Nova) we'd be 20-8. And even saying we blew the SHU game is a stretch, as we had a lead late but not more than a one possession lead. But unfortunately, we are what our record says we are.
I'm not trying to say what we *should* be, just what this team, with this talent, *could* have been. We've never seen shooters like this at MU. And more likely than not we're not going to the tourney. That's sad.
I'm no Ners, but I did play a bit of HS ball. I had a pretty atrocious shooting form, but I was one hell of a defender (I set the school record for charges drawn). That's what's so frustrating about this team - Yes it's easier to be a better defender if you're a freak of an athlete, but at the end of the day you don't need an inordinate amount of skill to be a good (or at least passable) defender. You just need work ethic. You can teach work ethic.
If anyone should know this it's Wojo. Not a particularly good athlete but tough as nails. Why this doesn't transmit to his team is beyond me.
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You should tell it like it is and stop suppressing the voice of others who think differently than you. Qualities of a dictator tying to influence other people's thoughts. Advancing your own agenda.
Seems like you're the triggered one mate. Making a a new account minutes after you got banned? Not a good look.
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You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap. You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!
Thank you
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Hero ball results in another loss. JJ's layup that somehow rolled out and Sam's wide-open three miss were very good shots. Katin's dribbling-away-from-the-basket-turnaround-fade-away in the face of two tight defenders when THE TEAM'S TWO BEST SHOOTERS ARE COMPELETLY UNGUARDED ON THE PERIMETER? Not smart.
Hero ball seldom works.
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F*ck off, one poster.
I agree but would not use the same words. MU played hard under difficult conditions against a desperate team on their home court. MU has work to do on defense but there has been improvement. The season is not over. I have been very critical of Wojo but he deserves credit for pulling this team together. Not all losses are the same. I am optimistic this team can win the next two if they just reduce the number of simple mistakes.
I am keeping the faith.
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You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap. You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!
Short lived fame he had just made Scoop Takes
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I set the school record for charges drawn
Wojo? Flopper? Slappy? Is that you Steve?
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Wojo? Flopper? Slappy? Is that you Steve?
How's it going Snowflake/Rocky Deez Nuts?
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You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap. You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!
Wow, I had missed this. Hadn't seen that my wife had reached her scoop breaking point and I sincerely appreciate you in essence sticking up for her and others of the same mindset and dropping the hammer.
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And here we are again
Lose a road big east game = fire wojo
win = you guys never post.
The criticism is not that you are not allowed to voice your opinion. Many of us just wonder why you never seem to voice an opinion that seems to be enjoying MU hoops?
Ahhh so true
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Complainers and whiners with nary a positive thing to say. Just that their unrealistic expectations aren't being met and they need to vent. Sob. Sniffle. It's not fair. It is sad that so many never actually get past the tantrum throwing phase any more. They just take to the anonymity of their keyboard and indulge their inner 4 year old.
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There are losers and winners and I think we are all tired of losing and blowing games. The blame needs to be put where it belongs. Sorry if this offends/triggers you.
At some point it has to come down to the team being able to put the ball in the basket, right? Like, even if we all agreed 100% that Wojo is the worst D1 basketball coach in America and is 100% in over his head, somehow somebody has to be able to put the ball in the basket at least one time over the final nearly 8:00 of basketball, no?
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You know snowflake, you chose a bad day to come here and start throwing crap. You can call it triggered if you like, but I call it a ban hammer!
Wow. You really felt the need to ban someone over something that small? Seems a bit excessive...
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Wow. You really felt the need to ban someone over something that small? Seems a bit excessive...
Second time he has banned someone with a similar name for similar posts. Not a problem by me.
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Wow. You really felt the need to ban someone over something that small? Seems a bit excessive...
My guess is that the combination of multi accounts, attacks on other posters, and use of politics is what "triggered" the ban hammer. (See what I did there?)
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My guess is that the combination of multi accounts, attacks on other posters, and use of politics is what "triggered" the ban hammer. (See what I did there?)
Chicos is still posting.
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Rocky -- can we lock this one until after the sea?
I know I am not optimistic about our chances this year, but debating Wojo should be an after-the-season issue. And, it seems like this is getting more and more personal and less analytical.
Can we do the same thing with a couple of other similar threads?
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Rocky -- can we lock this one until after the sea?
I know I am not optimistic about our chances this year, but debating Wojo should be an after-the-season issue. And, it seems like this is getting more and more personal and less analytical.
Can we do the same thing with a couple of other similar threads?
So you just want to silence opinions that have truth to them..? Doesn't seem very intelligent to me...
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So you just want to silence opinions that have truth to them..? Doesn't seem very intelligent to me...
C'mon Big Noggin. What could possibly be said that hasn't been said?
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So you just want to silence opinions that have truth to them..? Doesn't seem very intelligent to me...
it's more wanting to silence those who do not want to engage in dialogue. those whom are only here as antagonists should be banned regardless of if there is a mote of truth in their posts - that is a clear indication that they are trolls (or sociopaths) and not wanting to benefit from, or add to, the MUBB community.
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Chicos is still posting.
nope-i asked him...he has standards too ya know. he may look, but doesn't touch
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nope-i asked him...he has standards too ya know. he may look, but doesn't touch
It depends on the definition of look is. LOL.
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At some point it has to come down to the team being able to put the ball in the basket, right? Like, even if we all agreed 100% that Wojo is the worst D1 basketball coach in America and is 100% in over his head, somehow somebody has to be able to put the ball in the basket at least one time over the final nearly 8:00 of basketball, no?
Bingo. Everyone can lay all the blame on Wojo and the rest of the coaching staff (except Stan of course, who will be the next head coach), but if ONE shot falls in the last 8 minutes, this thread is a few pages shorter and Wojo's trending in the right direction with an away victory.
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Bingo. Everyone can lay all the blame on Wojo and the rest of the coaching staff (except Stan of course, who will be the next head coach), but if ONE shot falls in the last 8 minutes, this thread is a few pages shorter and Wojo's trending in the right direction with an away victory.
I agree with this, but it sure feels like this has been brought up multiple games - so what is noise and what is a trend.
IMO the results are the results at this point - no explaining them away.
Need to win a few more this year, hopefully dance and do better next year.
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I agree with this, but it sure feels like this has been brought up multiple games - so what is noise and what is a trend.
IMO the results are the results at this point - no explaining them away.
Need to win a few more this year, hopefully dance and do better next year.
Have to know how to dance before you can go to the dance. Just saying.
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Have to know how to dance before you can go the dance. Just saying.
You've obviously never seen me at a wedding.
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Have to know how to dance before you can go the dance. Just saying.
Should the team get drunk? That always helps my dancing skills.
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Should the team get drunk? That always helps my dancing skills.
(http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk414/MohntoniteRW/anonymous-beer-helping-white-guys-d.jpg)
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All of you on the fire WOJO bandwagon can go outside and play hide and go F yourselves. We dancin'.
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Don't worry. They won't be seen tonight.
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This thread and the what if mu loses their next two games thread looks awfully stupid now. Wojo , as does any third year coach, has some things to improve on but the provi let down n other gripes have really been out of his hands
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This thread and the what is mu loses their next two games thread looks awfully stupid now. Wojo , as does any third year coach, has some things to improve on but the provi let down n other gripes have really veen out of his hands
I refused to even bite on that idiotic hypothetical. Where was the "what if we win the next two" thread?
Peeps need to appreciate this very nice turnaround that Wojo is undertaking. If not, take an effen hike.
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All of you on the fire WOJO bandwagon can go outside and play hide and go F yourselves. We dancin'.
We won because Xavier played lousy, couldn't make their 3's, plus we only won by 11, fire Wojo!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I think we're in a great spot to recruit Shaka now.
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We won because Xavier played lousy, couldn't make their 3's, plus we only won by 11, fire Wojo!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wojo didn't even coach the team. Rumor is Sacar did. Fire Wojo. Hire Sacar. ;)
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Start it now, why not ? Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?
Why not?
Because you're a douche who knows less than zero about basketball!
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Why not?
Because you're a douche who knows less than zero about basketball!
Dude you reached WAAAAY back for that quote.
And I appreciate it. Don't ever change 8-).
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Dude you reached WAAAAY back for that quote.
And I appreciate it. Don't ever change 8-).
Hey, I do what I can.
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maybe our expectations are higher than yours.
With your Coaching talent, I can understand your expectations.
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Hey, I do what I can.
Plenty of free time walking 2 miles.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ukcuGHAuY2aGY/giphy.gif)
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(http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk414/MohntoniteRW/anonymous-beer-helping-white-guys-d.jpg)
Chick, did you sneak a keg into the locker room?
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Don't worry. They won't be seen tonight.
No warriorfan 14? No mayfairskatingrink? No Mike Deane's Dark Glasses? SAD!
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So let's start talking contact extension
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No warriorfan 14? No mayfairskatingrink? No Mike Deane's Dark Glasses? SAD!
Do us all a favor and throw a 6 month ban hammer on each em, Rocky!
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Chick, did you sneak a keg into the locker room?
No need, my friend. These guys have rhythm.
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Does Wojo deserve Big East Coach of the Year?
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Does Wojo deserve Big East Coach of the Year?
Not yet, more work to do. Let's keep him as long as we can.
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Does Wojo deserve Big East Coach of the Year?
I'm a Wojo fan, and if I were voting, he'd be fourth behind Holtmann, Cooley, and Wright.
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Wanted to save someone else the effort in finding this.
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Wanted to save someone else the effort in finding this.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/11R5KYi6ZdP8Z2/giphy.gif)
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I agree, for all the people bitchin about wojo i think he did a fantastic job. This team is woefully flawed in so many areas and to make it to the NCAA tournament is a testament to his will and ability to drag this team past its deficiencies.
no PG, no 4, and no 5 and little athleticism n we are discussing an ncaa tournament game. Who else did as much with as little? 9th or 10th best talent in the BE.
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Yeah I would think the bugs coming in next year will help immensely. Only problem is they will be freshmen so it might require a little bit of patience again. But we are headed in the right direction.
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Yeah I would think the bugs coming in next year will help immensely. Only problem is they will be freshmen so it might require a little bit of patience again. But we are headed in the right direction.
What will Wojo do to prepare for the infestation?
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I agree, for all the people bitchin about wojo i think he did a fantastic job. This team is woefully flawed in so many areas and to make it to the NCAA tournament is a testament to his will and ability to drag this team past its deficiencies.
no PG, no 4, and no 5 and little athleticism n we are discussing an ncaa tournament game. Who else did as much with as little? 9th or 10th best talent in the BE.
Brutal, no sugar coating, But I have to agree. Bare Bones Analysis in a nut shell.
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Next year is so big in so many ways. Without an NCAA bid, MU is going to have a very, very hard time selling more expensive tickets in a brand new arena. Students don't give a crap, and alumni may find it tougher to swallow a price increase if the team falls back somewhat next year. Lot of pressure on the incoming class.
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Next year is so big in so many ways. Without an NCAA bid, MU is going to have a very, very hard time selling more expensive tickets in a brand new arena. Students don't give a crap, and alumni may find it tougher to swallow a price increase if the team falls back somewhat next year. Lot of pressure on the incoming class.
Top 25 in attendance. Stop being a chicken little.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/11R5KYi6ZdP8Z2/giphy.gif)
+1
Great minds think alike.
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Probably a good time to bump this.
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Probably a good time to bump this.
If you are an idiot then yeah. If you want to lose Markus, Sam, Joey, etc. transferring out because their head coach changed then you probably need to go evaluate your mental health....
When Buzz left the cupboard emptied, if Wojo leaves the cupboard he has been building empties and we re-start....If you honestly want that instead of seeing what happens next year then you are an idiot. I can't sugarcoat it even if I try to.
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Probably a good time to bump this.
A first post for the ages
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Probably a good time to bump this.
Another addition to the IGNORE list
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If you are an idiot then yeah. If you want to lose Markus, Sam, Joey, etc. transferring out because their head coach changed then you probably need to go evaluate your mental health....
When Buzz left the cupboard emptied, if Wojo leaves the cupboard he has been building empties and we re-start....If you honestly want that instead of seeing what happens next year then you are an idiot. I can't sugarcoat it even if I try to.
Yup. Entirely possible Wojo isn't the guy. If we're on the bubble next year, even if we make it, I can see firing up this thread. We should be discussing seeding and not inclusion in 2019. But that's another discussion for another time. Hopefully one we'll never need to have.
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If you are an idiot then yeah. If you want to lose Markus, Sam, Joey, etc. transferring out because their head coach changed then you probably need to go evaluate your mental health....
When Buzz left the cupboard emptied, if Wojo leaves the cupboard he has been building empties and we re-start....If you honestly want that instead of seeing what happens next year then you are an idiot. I can't sugarcoat it even if I try to.
Brother Clam, I agree with you. We stay with Wojo long enough to see if the results will be there. I'm disappointed with this year, but if we start over with a new coach, it's three to five years before we're relevant. In the meantime, if Greg Gard is the answer at the red rodent, then we lose the recruiting headway we have in our home turf to that miserable rodent in Madison.
"Trust the process" is wearing thin, but we need to give it another year to see if it works.
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dgies
I normally agree with your comments, but not firing a guy because you could take a step backwards is not solid reasoning, IMO. I would not fire Wojo, but not because a fear of losing guys. Programs can be turned around quickly, regardless of what some on here believe.
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dgies
I normally agree with your comments, but not firing a guy because you could take a step backwards is not solid reasoning, IMO. I would not fire Wojo, but not because a fear of losing guys. Programs can be turned around quickly, regardless of what some on here believe.
Agree that you shouldn't fire out of fear of losing players, coaches should stick around a lot longer than players. However, when one of those players is likely to become the programs all time leading scorer, and probably pre season 1st team all Big East, another player could very easily be all Big East and another player is a 5* freshman, it would make you think twice. If you're going to fire someone you have to be 100% sure they're not the guy. Wojo hasn't proved he can get the job done yet, but I'm not 100% convinced that he can't. When I am, I'll call for him to step down.
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DJOver
We agree again. Good post!!
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Agree that you shouldn't fire out of fear of losing players, coaches should stick around a lot longer than players. However, when one of those players is likely to become the programs all time leading scorer, and probably pre season 1st team all Big East, another player could very easily be all Big East and another player is a 5* freshman, it would make you think twice. If you're going to fire someone you have to be 100% sure they're not the guy. Wojo hasn't proved he can get the job done yet, but I'm not 100% convinced that he can't. When I am, I'll call for him to step down.
I agree and think most people are here with a slight bias to optimism or pessimism depaending on their theory of the case.
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dgies
I normally agree with your comments, but not firing a guy because you could take a step backwards is not solid reasoning, IMO. I would not fire Wojo, but not because a fear of losing guys. Programs can be turned around quickly, regardless of what some on here believe.
Agree that you shouldn't fire out of fear of losing players, coaches should stick around a lot longer than players. However, when one of those players is likely to become the programs all time leading scorer, and probably pre season 1st team all Big East, another player could very easily be all Big East and another player is a 5* freshman, it would make you think twice. If you're going to fire someone you have to be 100% sure they're not the guy. Wojo hasn't proved he can get the job done yet, but I'm not 100% convinced that he can't. When I am, I'll call for him to step down.
I agree with all of this. I'm more optimistic than some (obviously) but I'm not sold yet. The next two years will determine a lot, though if next year is as tense on Selection Sunday as this one was, we shouldn't need the second year.
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I would give him two years as you have two full seasons with:
Markus, Sam, Cain, GE, Theo, Morrow and Joey.
That is a ton of talent. If they squeak in next year as a 10 seed and win a game in the tourney,that should be enough to build on with the whole team coming back again.
I am like others that I am not convinced Wojo is the guy, but he has done well enough to get two more seasons with this roster.
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I would give him two years as you have two full seasons with:
Markus, Sam, Cain, GE, Theo, Morrow and Joey.
That is a ton of talent. If they squeak in next year as a 10 seed and win a game in the tourney,that should be enough to build on with the whole team coming back again.
I am like others that I am not convinced Wojo is the guy, but he has done well enough to get two more seasons with this roster.
I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.
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I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.
Sam could have easily started over Paschall and Booth.
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I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.
And I think people here should be more realistic about the probability of Wojo getting fired after next season, especially if we get into the NCAAs (whether or not by "sneaking in").
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I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.
Possibly, but we're talking about talent that can get us a top 3-4 finish in the conference and a 6ish seed in the tournament...Not at a Nova level yet, but a big step forward.
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Wojo is currently sitting here
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwLBZPKg5YhyWLO3LT7XNMV8WO8ZZ2eoIWHNx_GUDJAq_vcDVF)
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A first post for the ages
No way that's a first-time poster.
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Wojo is currently sitting here
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwLBZPKg5YhyWLO3LT7XNMV8WO8ZZ2eoIWHNx_GUDJAq_vcDVF)
Yep, and he will be until the day he is fired.
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Wojo is currently sitting here
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwLBZPKg5YhyWLO3LT7XNMV8WO8ZZ2eoIWHNx_GUDJAq_vcDVF)
This thread ...a story of Ice and Fire.
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This thread ...a story of Ice and Fire.
(http://www.rootskiumc.org/uploads/2/6/9/0/26908756/blades-glory_orig.jpg)
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Like Diamond and Silk, ahuh/that's right, aina?
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If you are an idiot then yeah. If you want to lose Markus, Sam, Joey, etc. transferring out because their head coach changed then you probably need to go evaluate your mental health....
When Buzz left the cupboard emptied, if Wojo leaves the cupboard he has been building empties and we re-start....If you honestly want that instead of seeing what happens next year then you are an idiot. I can't sugarcoat it even if I try to.
Drink!
Was this part of a talking points memo that I missed? Good lord, that phrase comes up a lot.
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Drink!
Was this part of a talking points memo that I missed? Good lord, that phrase comes up a lot.
Okay, what could you have done with a team comprised of Derrick Wilson, Steve Taylor, Sandy Cohen, JJJ when he still had a broken shot and only half a season of Luke Fischer?
Car3no and Duane did all they could that year.
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Okay, what could you have done with a team comprised of Derrick Wilson, Steve Taylor, Sandy Cohen, JJJ when he still had a broken shot and only half a season of Luke Fischer?
Car3no and Duane did all they could that year.
I'm in no way saying Wojo walked into a team with a stacked roster. I think he had an uphill battle coming in. I just think it's funny how often that specific phrased gets used. It's like there was a PR note that went out to half the board that encouraged posters to stress the bare cupboard scenario if there are ever critiques about the rebuild.
For any Titus fans out there, this feels like the "good guy" they always talk about. It's the talking point that is always reverted to in order to lessen the sting of the current situation. "Bare cupboard" and "trust the process" are our "good guy" buzzwords.
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dgies
I normally agree with your comments, but not firing a guy because you could take a step backwards is not solid reasoning, IMO. I would not fire Wojo, but not because a fear of losing guys. Programs can be turned around quickly, regardless of what some on here believe.
Such as? And please define "quickly".
And have these programs demonstrated long-term success?
TAMU (I think it was him...) did a TON of research on program-building.
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Here's an enlightening article for all of you impatient Scoopers who are itching to dump Wojo
http://www.star-telegram.com/latest-news/article204184964.html
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jesmu
I read TAMU's book report and was not overly impressed. Basically he cited examples to match the five year plan he preaches. Without doing any digging, I would say the Ohio State guy did a pretty good job this year. He did not inherit a great deal of talent and I think was hired in the summer, which gave him no time to recruit.
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Here's an enlightening article for all of you impatient Scoopers who are itching to dump Wojo
http://www.star-telegram.com/latest-news/article204184964.html
Reads like a strong case for why we shouldn’t have messed with Buzz’s happiness
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Agree that you shouldn't fire out of fear of losing players, coaches should stick around a lot longer than players. However, when one of those players is likely to become the programs all time leading scorer, and probably pre season 1st team all Big East, another player could very easily be all Big East and another player is a 5* freshman, it would make you think twice. If you're going to fire someone you have to be 100% sure they're not the guy. Wojo hasn't proved he can get the job done yet, but I'm not 100% convinced that he can't. When I am, I'll call for him to step down.
Well said. I agree completely.
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Reads like a strong case for why we shouldn’t have messed with Buzz’s happiness
Counterpoint: Buzz is Pitt and Marquette is Jamie Dixon.
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Here's an enlightening article for all of you impatient Scoopers who are itching to dump Wojo
http://www.star-telegram.com/latest-news/article204184964.html
My argument when both Crean and Buzz left was that the wrong hire turns Marquette I to Depaul. Now, the wrong hire turns us into Pitt. Many tired of Buzz. Most now acknowledge he is a better coach than Wojo. Maybe Wojo is fired and MU gets the next Stallings. Or Howland. Or Martin.
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Counterpoint: Buzz is Pitt and Marquette is Jamie Dixon.
I think Buzz is and will continue to do quite well for himself and won’t be surprised to see him land a better gig than Va Tech in the near future. Pitt otoh...
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jesmu
I read TAMU's book report and was not overly impressed. Basically he cited examples to match the five year plan he preaches. Without doing any digging, I would say the Ohio State guy did a pretty good job this year. He did not inherit a great deal of talent and I think was hired in the summer, which gave him no time to recruit.
His starting line up consisted of a three year starting senior, a two year starting senior, a two year starting redshirt junior, a sophomore who played quite a bit as a freshman and one of the top freshmen from Ohio.
Not to take anything away from Holtmann, who is obviously a good coach, but he had a great deal of experience coming back in a conference that clearly had a down year.
Instead of sitting back and making a bunch of snarky, passive aggressive comments, maybe you should do your homework.
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sultan
For the five year plan group there is zero chance of citing an example that works with them. The Ohio State sucked two years and the coach was canned due to declining talent. New guy did pretty well with group.
As for snarky, not my intent. I was not impressed with TAMU's post and thought it was very one sided. That is my opinion, not trying to be snarky. I think TAMU is the best of the young posters, by a VERY wide margin.
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sultan
For the five year plan group there is zero chance of citing an example that works with them. The Ohio State sucked two years and the coach was canned due to declining talent. New guy did pretty well with group.
As for snarky, not my intent. I was not impressed with TAMU's post and thought it was very one sided. That is my opinion, not trying to be snarky. I think TAMU is the best of the young posters, by a VERY wide margin.
Goose - Pay Sultan no mind. Sultan has no business calling out others for being snarky and passive aggressive. It's his standard operating procedure here. Once a blue moon he'll actually make a relevant and astute post/observation. But. It is rare.
Holtmann is obviously a stud coach. Clearly hasn't needed the excuses at Butler, and now OSU, that our most graceful fans extend to Wojo still now 4 years in. When you can coach, you can coach.
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I always thought that Holtmann was a great coach, and if Nova weren't a perennial 1 or 2 seed that Holtmann could have gotten coach of the year multiple times when it was fairly given to Wright. While I want MU to do better than BU, I really think that Jordan is the biggest question mark in the conference. He's a Butler guy, but two of the last three Butler guys were far above average coaches, and despite the beatdown they gave us in MKE, I haven't seen a ton that Jordan will be able to sustain the success that Holtmann had.
Holtmann= Great coach, would love it if Wojo can become as good as him, just get the feeling that BU may be seen as a stepping stone job the same way some view MU.
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sultan
For the five year plan group there is zero chance of citing an example that works with them. The Ohio State sucked two years and the coach was canned due to declining talent. New guy did pretty well with group.
As for snarky, not my intent. I was not impressed with TAMU's post and thought it was very one sided. That is my opinion, not trying to be snarky. I think TAMU is the best of the young posters, by a VERY wide margin.
Ok sorry for my response.
I just think Holtmann walked into a very good situation. An experienced team in a conference that was down. Especially for a coach who also has had plenty of experience as a head coach.
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Reads like a strong case for why we shouldn’t have messed with Buzz’s happiness
No one got tired of Buzz winning. Keeping Buzz happy, however, would have entailed allowing him to continue recruit kids like Mayo (stole stuff from his own teammates iirc) and other continued brushes with the law. VT is a better fit for that.
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No one got tired of Buzz winning. Keeping Buzz happy, however, would have entailed allowing him to continue recruit kids like Mayo (stole stuff from his own teammates iirc) and other continued brushes with the law. VT is a better fit for that.
I think is notion is overblown. How many players “like Mayo” did Buzz sign at MU? Buzz may not have been squeaky clean but he also didn’t run a dirty program
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No one got tired of Buzz winning. Keeping Buzz happy, however, would have entailed allowing him to continue recruit kids like Mayo (stole stuff from his own teammates iirc) and other continued brushes with the law. VT is a better fit for that.
Minus the whole sexual assault thing, that was proven to have no merit according to the MPD, the only other thing I've heard is a bar fight.
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Be honest with yourselves, people. Buzz is long gone and is never coming back. So as much as you like to reminisce about the old days, who's the REAL alternative were the University to fire Wojo? And how fast will said alternative meet your "expectations?"
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Wojo is not the answer. 4 years in and he has still yet to win a game in the NCAA tournament and we're sitting here in year 4 in the NIT and talking about "next year". Chalk him up as a "miss". Marquette deserves better. They're spending big $ on a low return. That's called a LOSER.
There are better coaches out there. Time to cut our losses.
FIRE WOJO!!!!!!!
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Be honest with yourselves, people. Buzz is long gone and is never coming back. So as much as you like to reminisce about the old days, who's the REAL alternative were the University to fire Wojo? And how fast will said alternative meet your "expectations?"
This is a true statement. Not a Wojo fan, but would like to have the same coach for a number of years and give him the chance to develop a program. Wojo isn't terrible. Just isn't really great either. Or flashy or anything. Just what the administration wanted. Now as much as I hate to say it, I think we need to give him another five years or so to see if he can be a lifetime type of guy. He has the lineage to fulfill such a role. And loyalty would go both ways I suspect, he would recognize the administration giving him a leash and might stick around once he gets it all. Well, here's to hoping anyway.
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Be honest with yourselves, people. Buzz is long gone and is never coming back. So as much as you like to reminisce about the old days, who's the REAL alternative were the University to fire Wojo? And how fast will said alternative meet your "expectations?"
The frustration about Wojo is that the above shouldn't have to be considered a selling point for a coach at Marquette. This is what some might call putting lipstick on a pig. Just because there isn't a long list of coaches openly looking for new jobs doesn't make Wojo a better coach. As fans of a program that had a ncie stretch of playing winning basketball prior to Wojo's arrival, it's disappointing to have to resort to the old "it could be worse" kind of reasoning when talking about the state of the program.
He deserves the coming year; there's no doubt about that. But if he doesn't show some marked improvement with a deep roster in a league that will be taking a step back, there will be legitimate cause for concern by the powers that be.
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jesmu
I read TAMU's book report and was not overly impressed. Basically he cited examples to match the five year plan he preaches. Without doing any digging, I would say the Ohio State guy did a pretty good job this year. He did not inherit a great deal of talent and I think was hired in the summer, which gave him no time to recruit.
https://painttouches.com/2018/02/19/a-brief-history-of-the-modern-college-basketball-rebuild/
I didn't make an argument one way or the other. I literally just listed all coaching rebuilds in the one and one era and what the results were. At the end I made three comparisons, one positive (Tony Bennett) and two negative (Herb Sendek and Anthony Grant). I didn't cite any specific examples, I cited all the examples.
As for Ohio State, they weren't included because they haven't had their first tournament streak yet. But as for your claim that "he didn't inherit a ton of talent":
4/5 of his starters were on last year's squad getting at least 19 mpg....his 5th starter was a freshman that he didn't recruit but had already signed his LOI and attended class at OSU so he couldn't transfer without penalty...plus his brother is on the team. He also took the highest rated player from his recruiting class at Butler with him to OSU.
All that being said, he did a bang up job this year and did better than I or any other pundit expected to. I just don't believe comparing the situation Holtmann walked into and the situation Wojo walked into is fair....though what he did at Butler was fantastic.
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Wojo is not the answer. 4 years in and he has still yet to win a game in the NCAA tournament and we're sitting here in year 4 in the NIT and talking about "next year". Chalk him up as a "miss". Marquette deserves better. They're spending big $ on a low return. That's called a LOSER.
There are better coaches out there. Time to cut our losses.
FIRE WOJO!!!!!!!
No.
Not yet. We need improvement, yes. But fire.... I want at least one more year to see what's in the tank.
The biggest problem any coach has is teaching defense. Dean Smith, in his autobiography, "A Coaches Life" talked about it and the one player he had that figured it out almost immediately -- Michael Jordan. That's why Al didn't like to start most freshmen and why his seniors were his stars.
Look at the year-over-year improvement in Matt Heldt. I'll agree, he is still work in progress, but he improved. With another year and some work with Marcus, Greg and even Sacar, I hope we will get better.
You win with defense in the NCAA (just ask Virginia). If we work on our defense and defensive tactics, next year should be different. If not, his seat WILL be warm. It has to be. Money is involved.
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You win with defense in the NCAA (just ask Virginia). If we work on our defense and defensive tactics, next year should be different. If not, his seat WILL be warm. It has to be. Money is involved.
Didn't Wojo say after last season that defense was going to be a priority over the summer?
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I was having a thought about this topic. My assumption is that because we theoretically only lose Heldt at the end of next season, we would be even better the following season and that would help keep Wojo's job. But another way to think about it is, Howard and Hauser are unlikely to transfer as seniors (and by extension Joey is unlikely to transfer), so would it be strategic to fire Wojo in a year that would be less likely to result in mass transfers so the next coach can walk into a better situation? My guess is that Buzz benefited long term from having the 3 amigos his first year.
Now to be clear, I'm not advocating Wojo be fired. But if next season is another outside the tournament then maybe it would be wise.
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The frustration about Wojo is that the above shouldn't have to be considered a selling point for a coach at Marquette. This is what some might call putting lipstick on a pig. Just because there isn't a long list of coaches openly looking for new jobs doesn't make Wojo a better coach. As fans of a program that had a ncie stretch of playing winning basketball prior to Wojo's arrival, it's disappointing to have to resort to the old "it could be worse" kind of reasoning when talking about the state of the program.
He deserves the coming year; there's no doubt about that. But if he doesn't show some marked improvement with a deep roster in a league that will be taking a step back, there will be legitimate cause for concern by the powers that be.
I wasn’t making a “it could be worse” argument. I was asking an honest question: since everyone seems to want to compare Wojo to Buzz and Buzz as a replacement isn’t an option. Who do you think is an option, and how would Marquette go about attracting him/her? Given that you (and many fans, including myself) consider Marquette a top program, could we attract a successful head coach from a high major or low major D1 program? Another high-major assistant? A successful D-2 coach?
As an executive, I have very little patience for people who bring me complaints without recommendations on how to resolve them. If Wojo is not the answer, who, realistically, is?
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I was having a thought about this topic. My assumption is that because we theoretically only lose Heldt at the end of next season, we would be even better the following season and that would help keep Wojo's job. But another way to think about it is, Howard and Hauser are unlikely to transfer as seniors (and by extension Joey is unlikely to transfer), so would it be strategic to fire Wojo in a year that would be less likely to result in mass transfers so the next coach can walk into a better situation? My guess is that Buzz benefited long term from having the 3 amigos his first year.
Now to be clear, I'm not advocating Wojo be fired. But if next season is another outside the tournament then maybe it would be wise.
I'm sure there are numbers out there, but when coaches leave, I'm pretty sure the majority of the players stay. Coaches are going to schools with rosters that are mostly complete, so they can't just take 8 guys with them. Plus, once guys get to campus, they settle into a life there, and that has to be a selling point as well, assuming they are enjoying life on campus. Plus, when a good new coach comes in, don't you think they have a sales pitch ready for the team? They know they have to convince certain guys to stay, and I'm sure they come in prepared to do what they can to retain talent.
If Wojo got canned today and was replaced by an outsider, I bet we'd keep the majority of the roster. I'm not advocating for that, but I don't think his departure would lead to the loss of a significant portion of the team.
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I wasn’t making a “it could be worse” argument. I was asking an honest question: since everyone seems to want to compare Wojo to Buzz and Buzz as a replacement isn’t an option. Who do you think is an option, and how would Marquette go about attracting him/her? Given that you (and many fans, including myself) consider Marquette a top program, could we attract a successful head coach from a high major or low major D1 program? Another high-major assistant? A successful D-2 coach?
As an executive, I have very little patience for people who bring me complaints without recommendations on how to resolve them. If Wojo is not the answer, who, realistically, is?
I'm cool with Wojo. However, if they decided to fire him today, one potential replacement candidate might be TJ Otzelberger from South Dakota St. Milwaukee native that has the Jackrabbits in the NCAAs for the 2nd straight year.
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I wasn’t making a “it could be worse” argument. I was asking an honest question: since everyone seems to want to compare Wojo to Buzz and Buzz as a replacement isn’t an option. Who do you think is an option, and how would Marquette go about attracting him/her? Given that you (and many fans, including myself) consider Marquette a top program, could we attract a successful head coach from a high major or low major D1 program? Another high-major assistant? A successful D-2 coach?
As an executive, I have very little patience for people who bring me complaints without recommendations on how to resolve them. If Wojo is not the answer, who, realistically, is?
As an executive, do you prefer employees who accept problems simply because they couldn't solve them right away? The issue needs to be raised before it can be solved. Maybe it needs to be raised before it gets to your desk, but pointing out the problem is always the first step.
As fans, we aren't going to have the kind of list that the MU admins have, but it seems pretty reasonable that we would be able to call up a pretty significant number of coaches and pique their interest. Successful or promising mid-major coaches are prime targets for power 6 schools - Dan Hurley (URI), Earl Grant (CofC), Kermit Davis (MTSU), Eric Musselman (Nevada) all seem like reasonable options. Then there are power 6 coaches that might be looking for a change of scenery or even assistants, but fans are probably not likely to know those kind of guys. Do you think any Indiana fans were talking about snagging Tom Crean back in 2008?
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I think people here should be more realistic about our talent level. None of the players listed above would of started on this year's Villanova team.
Seeing only two of the above were starters on OUR team, you might be right.
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Ok sorry for my response.
I just think Holtmann walked into a very good situation. An experienced team in a conference that was down. Especially for a coach who also has had plenty of experience as a head coach.
OSU beat Michigan MSU and Purdue. Three really nice wins. And that is it. Non conference was awful as any big opponent they had they lost. Holtman was also a former Head Coach, so has some experience as the top guy. Can’t compare one year of a guy vs. 4 years. Holtman may wind up being great, but I wouldn’t offer him a lifetime contract just yet.
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Irwin
MU could have hired a HC and did not. That does not change the expectations to me.
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OSU beat Michigan MSU and Purdue. Three really nice wins. And that is it. Non conference was awful as any big opponent they had they lost. Holtman was also a former Head Coach, so has some experience as the top guy. Can’t compare one year of a guy vs. 4 years. Holtman may wind up being great, but I wouldn’t offer him a lifetime contract just yet.
I like Holtmann, but I agree with this. We haven't seen what he can do with his own guys and if he can sustain. I suspect he can and will, but he hasn't been anywhere long enough to prove that just yet.
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Wojo is not the answer. 4 years in and he has still yet to win a game in the NCAA tournament and we're sitting here in year 4 in the NIT and talking about "next year". Chalk him up as a "miss". Marquette deserves better. They're spending big $ on a low return. That's called a LOSER.
There are better coaches out there. Time to cut our losses.
FIRE WOJO!!!!!!!
Hello Mike Deane's Dark Glasses
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I like Holtmann, but I agree with this. We haven't seen what he can do with his own guys and if he can sustain. I suspect he can and will, but he hasn't been anywhere long enough to prove that just yet.
Not to pick on you Brew, but this response is representative of the 5 year plan crew to a T. When another head coach succeeds, there are always these caveats that knock them down a little and points made about flaws. However, when talking about Wojo, the way his performance is reviewed and critiqued is far, far different. I think fair points have been made about coaches like Holtmann, Smart, Buzz, McDermott, Cooley, and others, but the lens with which those coaches are critiqued is vastly different than the lens Wojo is viewed through.
There are a lot of people on this board who know basketball inside and out, can talk strategy, advanced stats, player development, etc very well, but when it comes to Wojo there seems to be a disconnect from the reality that forms other opinions. Reading through threads about where Wojo stacks up compared to other Big East coaches or how our team compares to others, there is a ton of great analysis and points made about areas where others fall short. But when some of these same fans review our season or our coach, the analysis and objectivity are all but gone. Of course as fans, we're going to be less objective when it comes to MU, but too often the response to an objective comment about our team is met with defensive responses because there is some need felt to defend Wojo from criticism.
I think the kool-aid has weakened a little this year, but it's still pretty strong for some.
Jes - this falls squarely in my 3%-5%
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Hello Mike Deane's Dark Glasses
Close... but try "Al Davis"
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Skianth,
In my work I believe that only the thorniest problems should ever reach my desk, and when they do and they are not an emergency they should have already been well-vetted by my staff and others and at least have process recommendations attached to them. Too many people want to identify problems and wait for others to solve them. As MU82 has been preaching all season with respect to Wojo, if you say he has to be successful and he's not, then what will you do? If you say he needs to be fired and he isn't, what will you do?
Frankly, most programs not named Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky are going to see down years and inconsistent year over year results. Are you a fan because of your deep attachment to the University, or are you a fan because we win? If it is the latter, you may want to shift your allegiance to one of those three programs. We aren't winning enough for you now, I understand. Sometimes getting rid of alleged underperformers can solve problems. Other times, it's simply time and patience that brings results.
Thank goodness for Anonymous Eagle, who perfectly summed up my feelings on this - my team has a chance to play more games and I am excited to watch them play. I am excited for the promise of next season. And I accept the decisions of Pres. Lovell and AD Scholl, as their expertise and judgement in this area are far superior to mine. I just want to see the kids compete.
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Not to pick on you Brew, but this response is representative of the 5 year plan crew to a T. When another head coach succeeds, there are always these caveats that knock them down a little and points made about flaws. However, when talking about Wojo, the way his performance is reviewed and critiqued is far, far different. I think fair points have been made about coaches like Holtmann, Smart, Buzz, McDermott, Cooley, and others, but the lens with which those coaches are critiqued is vastly different than the lens Wojo is viewed through.
There are a lot of people on this board who know basketball inside and out, can talk strategy, advanced stats, player development, etc very well, but when it comes to Wojo there seems to be a disconnect from the reality that forms other opinions. Reading through threads about where Wojo stacks up compared to other Big East coaches or how our team compares to others, there is a ton of great analysis and points made about areas where others fall short. But when some of these same fans review our season or our coach, the analysis and objectivity are all but gone. Of course as fans, we're going to be less objective when it comes to MU, but too often the response to an objective comment about our team is met with defensive responses because there is some need felt to defend Wojo from criticism.
I think the kool-aid has weakened a little this year, but it's still pretty strong for some.
Jes - this falls squarely in my 3%-5%
Ha!
Interestingly, I have no problems with anything you said here.
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Minus the whole sexual assault thing, that was proven to have no merit according to the MPD, the only other thing I've heard is a bar fight.
Just because MPD didn't file charges does NOT mean it has no merit. It happened during the age of covering up sexual scandals at universities
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In my work I believe that only the thorniest problems should ever reach my desk, and when they do and they are not an emergency they should have already been well-vetted by my staff and others and at least have process recommendations attached to them. Too many people want to identify problems and wait for others to solve them. As MU82 has been preaching all season with respect to Wojo, if you say he has to be successful and he's not, then what will you do? If you say he needs to be fired and he isn't, what will you do?
Like all fans, I have no control over who coaches the team I root for. Whether I buy tickets next year or not doesn't matter to the university. If I stop donating, they won't notice. My actions next year, like most fans, don't mean anything to the university. I will be a fan of Marquette basketball no matter who coaches the team and no matter who eventually plays for the team. That doesn't mean that the coach in place in any given year is a good coach or the right choice.
I don't think fans are in any place to make ultimatums to the university over who coaches a team. That's dumb. it's also something that very few people here have done. I don't think that fans need to like a guy just because he's the coach of the team you like, though. I don't think Wojo being the coach of the team we root for makes him above criticism either. I want him to be successful because that makes Marquette successful, but I don't think just being a fan of Marquette means that I should simply ignore and accept his current shortcomings.
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Skianth, I disagree with your general premise. I see what you are saying but I think you misunderstand a lot of the "wojo backers." I don't know that you would find a single one who will say "Wojo is a stud he will get it done." I can't speak for others but all I have every tried to preach is patience. I give examples of why it could work out. I give examples of why it couldn't. Honestly, I give more of the former because there are plenty who are convinced Wojo is a dud and few who think he's a stud. If it was the opposite, I would be doing the reverse.
I'm not sure the divide is between pro and anti wojo but more in our view on sports. I think there are those who switch back and forth between optimistic and pessimistic with every win and loss. They feel the highest highs and the lowest lows. Other fans are more reserved and cautious with their approach. Neither is better, just different styles
Even though I don't see eye to eye with Guru often, my guess is that there is no better fan then him when we win. I can only imagine unbridled joy. Goose I respect the hell out of even though we see the rebuild very differently. He is rightly not overly impressed with individual victories and is always looking at the program as a whole.
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Keeping Buzz happy, however, would have entailed allowing him to continue recruit kids like Mayo (stole stuff from his own teammates iirc).
Actually that was Patrick Hazel, a Tom Crean recruit.
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TAMU
You are correct. I am much more concerned with a solid foundation long term over individual wins. My biggest concern remains, how solid is the foundation and the ability to compete on national stage. Beating SH in Jan means little to me if it is a blip on the screen.
As you know, I am all in giving Wojo another year. If he proves foundation is there, hope he is here a long time. If not, I wish him good luck in the future. I have said many times, I do not care who the coach is as long they win on national stage.
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I always thought that Holtmann was a great coach, and if Nova weren't a perennial 1 or 2 seed that Holtmann could have gotten coach of the year multiple times when it was fairly given to Wright. While I want MU to do better than BU, I really think that Jordan is the biggest question mark in the conference. He's a Butler guy, but two of the last three Butler guys were far above average coaches, and despite the beatdown they gave us in MKE, I haven't seen a ton that Jordan will be able to sustain the success that Holtmann had.
Holtmann= Great coach, would love it if Wojo can become as good as him, just get the feeling that BU may be seen as a stepping stone job the same way some view MU.
Lavall's team is in the tournament. Lavall has Jordan Tucker a very strong shooter transferring in from Duke next year. Lavall was a proven recruiter at Michigan and will likely continue to do well.
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Any concerns over Wojo's feelings now that he knows this is a 16 page thread?
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Actually that was Patrick Hazel, a Tom Crean recruit.
Todd stole from his teammates. Patrick stole from fellow a student's ATM account.
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Lavall's team is in the tournament. Lavall has Jordan Tucker a very strong shooter transferring in from Duke next year. Lavall was a proven recruiter at Michigan and will likely continue to do well.
He also had all of holtmamns players this year and only won 4 conference games before the conference tourney his one year being a head coach before butler. I hope he does well, but he was not proven it to me yet. Of coarse neither has wojo.
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I wasn’t making a “it could be worse” argument. I was asking an honest question: since everyone seems to want to compare Wojo to Buzz and Buzz as a replacement isn’t an option. Who do you think is an option, and how would Marquette go about attracting him/her? Given that you (and many fans, including myself) consider Marquette a top program, could we attract a successful head coach from a high major or low major D1 program? Another high-major assistant? A successful D-2 coach?
As an executive, I have very little patience for people who bring me complaints without recommendations on how to resolve them. If Wojo is not the answer, who, realistically, is?
So as an “executive” you stick with an at best marginal performer in your most visible business unit because you fear you might not be able to find better than mediocre?
Do you believe in your company/your business/your team? If you do, you expect you can recruit/land better than mediocre.
Fear based leadership isn’t exactly, leadership.
Stan Johnson would at minimum be a lateral hire. Legitimately he couldn’t do worse than Wojo has done, and he is our ace recruiter.
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To the extent there's a divide, I definitely fall into the "wojo backer" category. Anything better than 7 conference wins and I would want to see him get at least another year. If there is a significant injury, the 7 wins isn't even close to a firm number.
My patience is born of wanting to see a successful coach here for a long time. With the number of head coaching jobs that are more desirable than Marquette on paper, and the turnover of head coaches, we need intangibles to make that happen. Patience and willingness to grow with a coach can be a heck of an intangible. Sure we can get trigger happy and try to back the money truck up to the hot mid major coach every 4 years, but easy come, easy go. Even if that coach hits enough early success to make us happy, that coach will also never stick around at MU for more than a couple solid tournament runs. But you weather some early down years with a young coach, you really give him and his family time to settle in and call Milwaukee home, now you might be getting somewhere.
And Floorslapper, et al can drop "Fear based leadership" ( ::) ::) ::)) on this all he wants, but being deranged about where you stand vis-a-vis your competition is no better. At the risk of allowing a conversation centered around the nonsensical business metaphor to continue, a lot of very successful smaller companies don't recruit at the very top schools, don't churn their employees for the highest marginal results and don't try to hold their job openings out to offer the same things as Fortune 100 companies, because they'll fail. Instead they recognize their competitive advantage and play to that, often prioritizing long term stability over short term profit.
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Ahh, Ners, as if you could intimidate me by “questioning” my position in the C-suite. Unlike you, I know not to stick my nose into issues that I know little about. I trust the MU leadership to determine if/when a coach becomes a marginal performer, not someone who dunked once. Love to watch this team play and watch these boys grow. My happiness isn’t decided by an NCAA berth.
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So as an “executive” you stick with an at best marginal performer in your most visible business unit because you fear you might not be able to find better than mediocre?
Do you believe in your company/your business/your team? If you do, you expect you can recruit/land better than mediocre.
Fear based leadership isn’t exactly, leadership.
Stan Johnson would at minimum be a lateral hire. Legitimately he couldn’t do worse than Wojo has done, and he is our ace recruiter.
Ners, how did you come to this conclusion? She said nothing of this sort.
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Ahh, Ners, as if you could intimidate me by “questioning” my position in the C-suite. Unlike you, I know not to stick my nose into issues that I know little about. I trust the MU leadership to determine if/when a coach becomes a marginal performer, not someone who dunked once. Love to watch this team play and watch these boys grow. My happiness isn’t decided by an NCAA berth.
Just don’t DARE start question the philosophy behind the fro-yo flavor of the day selection.
That’s a bridge too far!!!!
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Actually that was Patrick Hazel, a Tom Crean recruit.
Oh, my bad. I thought Mayo got nailed with that as well.
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Mayo was a pig with women too.
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Mayo was a pig with women too.
He squealed?
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Ners, how did you come to this conclusion? She said nothing of this sort.
I interpreted Mom's repeated posts mentioning her concern over staying the course because of, essentially, the following logic: If not Wojo, then who?
Ahh, Ners, as if you could intimidate me by “questioning” my position in the C-suite. Unlike you, I know not to stick my nose into issues that I know little about. I trust the MU leadership to determine if/when a coach becomes a marginal performer, not someone who dunked once. Love to watch this team play and watch these boys grow. My happiness isn’t decided by an NCAA berth.
Then why are you posting in this thread? Your C-level leadership style, you asked that someone bring you a solution - instead of complaining.
I gave you Stan Johnson as just one potential solution. There's Tom Crean. Thad Matta. A guy like Kermit Davis at MTSU. Chris Beard got hired away from Arkansas Little Rock to Texas Tech. Brian Wardle is doing a really good job rebuilding Bradley. Countless examples.
Do you believe we have the facilities, budget, and commitment to basketball that are reflective of a Top 25 program? If so, why would you think we couldn't attract a solid coach with a track record of success at a mid-major, or out of work high major coach like Crean or Matta?
Look, I enjoy watching this team play too. It is a fun brand of basketball. Unfortunately, we should be in the NCAA with the elite talent we have on this team, not the NIT - and that is on the coach.
You realize that there are only 5 Power 5 teams in college basketball to be in the Top 20 in 3pt shooting percentage AND attempts? You know the 5?
Nova
Kansas
Purdue
MSU
Marquette
One is not like the other. Coaching matters.
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So as an “executive” you stick with an at best marginal performer in your most visible business unit because you fear you might not be able to find better than mediocre?
Do you believe in your company/your business/your team? If you do, you expect you can recruit/land better than mediocre.
Fear based leadership isn’t exactly, leadership.
Stan Johnson would at minimum be a lateral hire. Legitimately he couldn’t do worse than Wojo has done, and he is our ace recruiter.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/396460a8255e020f0d22f186051018a8/tenor.gif?itemid=7441740)
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I interpreted Mom's repeated posts mentioning her concern over staying the course because of, essentially, the following logic: If not Wojo, then who?
Then why are you posting in this thread? Your C-level leadership style, you asked that someone bring you a solution - instead of complaining.
I gave you Stan Johnson as just one potential solution. There's Tom Crean. Thad Matta. A guy like Kermit Davis at MTSU. Chris Beard got hired away from Arkansas Little Rock to Texas Tech. Brian Wardle is doing a really good job rebuilding Bradley. Countless examples.
Do you believe we have the facilities, budget, and commitment to basketball that are reflective of a Top 25 program? If so, why would you think we couldn't attract a solid coach with a track record of success at a mid-major, or out of work high major coach like Crean or Matta?
Look, I enjoy watching this team play too. It is a fun brand of basketball. Unfortunately, we should be in the NCAA with the elite talent we have on this team, not the NIT - and that is on the coach.
You realize that there are only 5 Power 5 teams in college basketball to be in the Top 20 in 3pt shooting percentage AND attempts? You know the 5?
Nova
Kansas
Purdue
MSU
Marquette
One is not like the other. Coaching matters.
Lol. So this is your new obscure stat that you learned about just yesterday but will still use to suit your argument huh?
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Lol. So this is your new obscure stat that you learned about just yesterday but will still use to suit your argument huh?
Obscure stat? I'd say it is pretty telling, when the NCAA seed of the four other teams to accomplish the feat are a 1,1,2, and 3.
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Obscure stat? I'd say it is pretty telling, when the NCAA seed of the four other teams to accomplish the feat are a 1,1,2, and 3.
Nah. You do this all the time. You find some stat that makes Wojo look bad and all of the sudden you use it like you invented it. But have you used it before? Nope. Will you use it again? Nope.
It's intellectually lazy.
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Nah. You do this all the time. You find some stat that makes Wojo look bad and all of the sudden you use it like you invented it. But have you used it before? Nope. Will you use it again? Nope.
It's intellectually lazy.
Huh? I didn't read this stat elsewhere. I came up with it this morning in response to Golden Avalanche's snarky question in another thread.
Granted, I was alarmed last season that we barely snuck into the tourney, despite being the Number 1, 3-pt shooting team in the country, while being 38th in attempts.
We all know eFG% reigns supreme and the prolific 3-ball shooting is a huge component of eFG%
The rest of your above point make zero intellectual sense.
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I interpreted Mom's repeated posts mentioning her concern over staying the course because of, essentially, the following logic: If not Wojo, then who?
Then why are you posting in this thread? Your C-level leadership style, you asked that someone bring you a solution - instead of complaining.
I gave you Stan Johnson as just one potential solution. There's Tom Crean. Thad Matta. A guy like Kermit Davis at MTSU. Chris Beard got hired away from Arkansas Little Rock to Texas Tech. Brian Wardle is doing a really good job rebuilding Bradley. Countless examples.
Do you believe we have the facilities, budget, and commitment to basketball that are reflective of a Top 25 program? If so, why would you think we couldn't attract a solid coach with a track record of success at a mid-major, or out of work high major coach like Crean or Matta?
Look, I enjoy watching this team play too. It is a fun brand of basketball. Unfortunately, we should be in the NCAA with the elite talent we have on this team, not the NIT - and that is on the coach.
You realize that there are only 5 Power 5 teams in college basketball to be in the Top 20 in 3pt shooting percentage AND attempts? You know the 5?
Nova
Kansas
Purdue
MSU
Marquette
One is not like the other. Coaching matters.
I keep hoping that a Power 5 conference team down on its luck and with a rich benefactor, steps up and hires Wojo. I believe the kids on our team would go in to the administration and pound the table for Stan. Markus in particular who is a very impressive young man would lead the charge. Stan would have a quality team to start with and momentum would build. Stan understands how to relate to kids in a positive way and get the best out of them.
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I'm looking around in the cupboard and I don't see anyth--BAM!
(http://i.imgur.com/Czrf6CV.gif)
#emptyCupboard
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Not to pick on you Brew, but this response is representative of the 5 year plan crew to a T.
I can only speak for myself. First, I agree with the 5-year plan and not just for Wojo, but across the board. When it comes to someone like Holtmann, I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask what he'll do in year 4 of a job because he's never been there. Maybe he'll have Ohio State humming by then. Maybe he'll get them to a Sweet 16 or even Final Four with someone else's players and take a better job. Based on his history, the latter is more likely.
I could expound on all the names you mention, but I don't think looking at what someone does at the start is a fair place to evaluate them. Until they are doing it with their own players and you see their ability to put a roster together, build, and sustain, you really don't know what a coach will do. I think with Wojo, we will learn a ton next year. It would be beyond stupid to fire him now, but if he can't sort out some semblance of defense and get us comfortably off the bubble with next year's roster, then it's time to start looking for a replacement.
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From the get-go I was hesitant to jump on the Wojo train. When he explicitly admitted that the white t-shirt motivational tactic was a gimmick, I decided not to board.
It may seem small--trivial even--but I found that to be quite telling.
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Huh? I didn't read this stat elsewhere. I came up with it this morning in response to Golden Avalanche's snarky question in another thread.
Granted, I was alarmed last season that we barely snuck into the tourney, despite being the Number 1, 3-pt shooting team in the country, while being 38th in attempts.
We all know eFG% reigns supreme and the prolific 3-ball shooting is a huge component of eFG%
The rest of your above point make zero intellectual sense.
It's good to have you back. And I mean that with all sincerity.
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From the get-go I was hesitant to jump on the Wojo train. When he explicitly admitted that the white t-shirt motivational tactic was a gimmick, I decided not to board.
It may seem small--trivial even--but I found that to be quite telling.
If it wasn't supposed to be a gimmick, what was it? I think everyone, including ESPN knew it was a gimmick.
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If it wasn't supposed to be a gimmick, what was it? I think everyone, including ESPN knew it was a gimmick.
Two strategies to motivate players
1) Use gimmicks
2) Say "nah, I'm not into playing those games"
Both are okay strategies I suppose. However, if you choose 1, you must go "all in." You have to convince your guys that despite appearances, despite what ESPN says, this is NOT a gimmick--you take that Marquette name seriously.
Wojo faltered. After losing games, he admitted--to the press!--that it was a gimmick. Sandy and some other players said that they had bought into it. Sandy said that he was disappointed.
I guarantee that what Sandy really wanted to say is "wtf? I feel like a sucker."
Let me ask you this: would play hard for a dude who just pulled the okey-doke on you? Who tricked the hell out of you? Made you feel like a fool? I wouldn't. Nobody would.
This is a key difference between Wojo and Buzz, perhaps the key difference: If Buzz were to use a motivational gimmick, he would sell the sh*t out of it. And if the gimmick didn't work, I'm virtually certain that Buzz is smart enough not to explicitly state that it was a gimmick. Buzz would fully commit, as it were.
(FWIW, I'd prefer coaches not use any gimmicks, but, again, if a coach does, then he needs to sell it. And sell it hard.)
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I mean if you want to call motivational tactics gimmicks, I'll present to you 80% of leadership
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I could expound on all the names you mention, but I don't think looking at what someone does at the start is a fair place to evaluate them. Until they are doing it with their own players and you see their ability to put a roster together, build, and sustain, you really don't know what a coach will do. I think with Wojo, we will learn a ton next year. It would be beyond stupid to fire him now, but if he can't sort out some semblance of defense and get us comfortably off the bubble with next year's roster, then it's time to start looking for a replacement.
I think that's a mostly fair and reasonable way to look at things. Kevin Ollie is a good example of first impressions not necessarily being representative of what's to come. But in years 3 and 4, Wojo has plenty of his own guys, and we've still struggled to really move the needle. Maybe he had a few misfires in recruiting that limited us in the last 2 years. We know transfers have played a role as well. It seems to me that all of Wojo's eggs are in the Year 5 basket now. I'm hoping it pays off and that Wojo is able to grow along with his players. I guess I just expected a more linear upward trend rather than a couple year plateau with a planned leap in year 5.
Landing guys like Joey, Markus, Morrow, and Rowsey gives me hope that recruiting can be consistent, even though I'm still a bit on the fence there. If he can sign a big time PG, I'll be even more hopeful. With the way we've seen Sam and Markus grow, I'm starting to believe in his ability to develop players. I'm fully convinced that he's got a very strong offensive mind. That much is clear. If he can show some improvement on the defensive side next year, then I'll begin to trust his coaching skills and gameplanning abilities more. I'm excited for Year 5, and I hope that by the end of the year I'll be convinced. For now, though, there are still more question marks than I wanted by the (almost) end of his fourth year.
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He squealed?
No but he did have a restraining order against him.
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From the get-go I was hesitant to jump on the Wojo train. When he explicitly admitted that the white t-shirt motivational tactic was a gimmick, I decided not to board.
It may seem small--trivial even--but I found that to be quite telling.
Seriously?
At the racetrack, the track generally refers to all wagers other than WinPlaceShow as "gimmicks." Exacta, Trifecta, Pick Fours etc. Those "gimmick" pools usually outpace WPS pools in handle-dollars. The track is NOT saying, "Do not play these wagers, they are silly gimmicks."
A coach's ability to motivate is not thwarted by his later admission that a certain tactic was a bit gimmicky. Imagine Al McGuire being held to your standard. When he got in a fight with a player during practice and screamed out, I'll "killz" you (ask Bo Ellis...that really happened), do you think any players were cracking a smile inside? If Al admitted he was using a gimmick by trying to show his street toughness, would this demotivate them?
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I think that's a mostly fair and reasonable way to look at things. Kevin Ollie is a good example of first impressions not necessarily being representative of what's to come. But in years 3 and 4, Wojo has plenty of his own guys, and we've still struggled to really move the needle. Maybe he had a few misfires in recruiting that limited us in the last 2 years. We know transfers have played a role as well. It seems to me that all of Wojo's eggs are in the Year 5 basket now. I'm hoping it pays off and that Wojo is able to grow along with his players. I guess I just expected a more linear upward trend rather than a couple year plateau with a planned leap in year 5.
Landing guys like Joey, Markus, Morrow, and Rowsey gives me hope that recruiting can be consistent, even though I'm still a bit on the fence there. If he can sign a big time PG, I'll be even more hopeful. With the way we've seen Sam and Markus grow, I'm starting to believe in his ability to develop players. I'm fully convinced that he's got a very strong offensive mind. That much is clear. If he can show some improvement on the defensive side next year, then I'll begin to trust his coaching skills and gameplanning abilities more. I'm excited for Year 5, and I hope that by the end of the year I'll be convinced. For now, though, there are still more question marks than I wanted by the (almost) end of his fourth year.
I felt last year we were moving along fairly linearly. My biggest worry this year was the defense. I didn't expect mountains to move, but some measure of improvement due to added length and more experience in the system for our starting five, all of whom were returning players.
Looking at next year, the reason for hope on defense is more length (Joey, Morrow, someone who's not Rowsey) and experience for the current freshmen. Sounds awfully familiar. I'm hoping it yields results, but if Wojo has an Achilles Heel, that defense sure looks like the likely culprit.
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Two strategies to motivate players
1) Use gimmicks
2) Say "nah, I'm not into playing those games"
Both are okay strategies I suppose. However, if you choose 1, you must go "all in." You have to convince your guys that despite appearances, despite what ESPN says, this is NOT a gimmick--you take that Marquette name seriously.
Wojo faltered. After losing games, he admitted--to the press!--that it was a gimmick. Sandy and some other players said that they had bought into it. Sandy said that he was disappointed.
I guarantee that what Sandy really wanted to say is "wtf? I feel like a sucker."
Let me ask you this: would play hard for a dude who just pulled the okey-doke on you? Who tricked the hell out of you? Made you feel like a fool? I wouldn't. Nobody would.
This is a key difference between Wojo and Buzz, perhaps the key difference: If Buzz were to use a motivational gimmick, he would sell the sh*t out of it. And if the gimmick didn't work, I'm virtually certain that Buzz is smart enough not to explicitly state that it was a gimmick. Buzz would fully commit, as it were.
(FWIW, I'd prefer coaches not use any gimmicks, but, again, if a coach does, then he needs to sell it. And sell it hard.)
I'm pretty glad Sandy transferred after reading this.
So, he was duped into thinking their warm-ups were gone for good? That MU was going to come out wearing Hanes for the rest of the season?
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Two strategies to motivate players
1) Use gimmicks
2) Say "nah, I'm not into playing those games"
Both are okay strategies I suppose. However, if you choose 1, you must go "all in." You have to convince your guys that despite appearances, despite what ESPN says, this is NOT a gimmick--you take that Marquette name seriously.
Wojo faltered. After losing games, he admitted--to the press!--that it was a gimmick. Sandy and some other players said that they had bought into it. Sandy said that he was disappointed.
I guarantee that what Sandy really wanted to say is "wtf? I feel like a sucker."
Let me ask you this: would play hard for a dude who just pulled the okey-doke on you? Who tricked the hell out of you? Made you feel like a fool? I wouldn't. Nobody would.
This is a key difference between Wojo and Buzz, perhaps the key difference: If Buzz were to use a motivational gimmick, he would sell the sh*t out of it. And if the gimmick didn't work, I'm virtually certain that Buzz is smart enough not to explicitly state that it was a gimmick. Buzz would fully commit, as it were.
(FWIW, I'd prefer coaches not use any gimmicks, but, again, if a coach does, then he needs to sell it. And sell it hard.)
Wojo's guys seem bought in and play hard. I don't think motivation is largely a problem.
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I'm looking around in the cupboard and I don't see anyth--BAM!
(http://i.imgur.com/Czrf6CV.gif)
#emptyCupboard
Fond memory. We need more physical and athletic players like Deonte. Then again, considering Wojo never started Deonte, maybe that's just not his kind of player?
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Fond memory. We need more physical and athletic players like Deonte. Then again, considering Wojo never started Deonte, maybe that's just not his kind of player?
Uhhhh, you're completely wrong. It was Buzz who never started Deonte. In the 8 games Deonte was here under Wojo, he started every single game.Thanks for playing, try again.
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Fake news
Uhhhh, you're completely wrong. It was Buzz who never started Deonte. In the 8 games Deonte was here under Wojo, he started every single game.Thanks for playing, try again.
Teal?
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Teal?
Huh, maybe you're right. Have no clue what I was looking at. Doesn't change the fact that Buzz didn't start Deonte either. Buzz is long gone and isn't coming back. It's time to accept that fact.
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I keep hoping that a Power 5 conference team down on its luck and with a rich benefactor, steps up and hires Wojo. I believe the kids on our team would go in to the administration and pound the table for Stan. Markus in particular who is a very impressive young man would lead the charge. Stan would have a quality team to start with and momentum would build. Stan understands how to relate to kids in a positive way and get the best out of them.
I like Stan as much as the next guy, but why would Stan be an improvement over Wojo? Does Stan have the answers on the defensive end and Wojo just won't listen? I'm not saying he couldn't or won't be an improvement but we have exactly zero evidence that any of the issues Wojo has won't also be Stan's weaknesses.
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Ah, maybe you're right. Don't know what I was looking at. Doesn't change the fact that Buzz didn't start Deonte either. Buzz is long gone and isn't coming back. It's time to accept that fact.
I fully accept the fact Buzz isn't coming back. Have realized that since the day he left. Wojo's supporters point to the fact that all of Devante, Jamil, Jake, Todd, and Otule were off the roster starting Year 1.
I simply never accepted the fact that Deonte wasn't slotted for one of those vacated starting roles.
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I like Stan as much as the next guy, but why would Stan be an improvement over Wojo? Does Stan have the answers on the defensive end and Wojo just won't listen? I'm not saying he couldn't or won't be an improvement but we have exactly zero evidence that any of the issues Wojo has won't also be Stan's weaknesses.
Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts. Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff. He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.
Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I? You think the assistant would worry about getting fired? Probably. It's a hard deal. Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...
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Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts. Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff. He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.
Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I? You think the assistant would worry about getting fired? Probably. It's a hard deal. Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...
So what if Stan's scouts were the Seton Hall games? Ya know what Seton Hall doesn't do? PnR. Ya know what we suck at? PnR defense.
The rest of this response is on me, I forgot about your clairvoyance into how coaches interact and what they are thinking by watching stuff on a TV screen every couple of days when the games are played.
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Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts. Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff. He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.
Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I? You think the assistant would worry about getting fired? Probably. It's a hard deal. Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...
Assistants are usually chosen because they have a close connection with the head coach. The last thing they're worried about is getting fired because they disagree with the head coach.
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Start it now, why not ? Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?
The insanity of this post is most evident by the fact that we had the third highest three-point percentage in the country.
Clearly your 2nd grade math education makes you unable to realize that 3-point shots count more than 2-point shots. If you'd made it to 3rd grade math you could calculate that the rare team that makes over 40 percent of their shots from behind the arc is as effective as a team that makes over 60 percent of their two point shots.
Any understanding of basketball would further lead you to understand that a team with our height is not going to make anywhere remotely close to 60% of their 2-pointers, or the fact that "jacking up 3s" - over 40% of which go in - is the only thing that then allows Rowsey and Howard to spread the defense enough that they can drive or pass against a spread out defense to get the 2-point shots you so wish to watch - many more of which would be blocked.
Because I am so blinded by the utter stupidity of this argument I cannot even start to look at your other arguments.
While it appears to me you have made the most inane argument in all my years of reading the scoop, the only charitable explanation I can hope for is that you had never watched a basketball game since the three-point line was added and did not understand that the longer shots are called 3-pointers because they are, in fact, worth one more point than the other shots.
Please never coach a basketball team at any youth level - you would be a discredit to any youth league no matter how young, and force your players to relearn the game when they got a new coach the next year.
Sorry the year proved you so wrong.
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I felt last year we were moving along fairly linearly. My biggest worry this year was the defense. I didn't expect mountains to move, but some measure of improvement due to added length and more experience in the system for our starting five, all of whom were returning players.
Looking at next year, the reason for hope on defense is more length (Joey, Morrow, someone who's not Rowsey) and experience for the current freshmen. Sounds awfully familiar. I'm hoping it yields results, but if Wojo has an Achilles Heel, that defense sure looks like the likely culprit.
We've been talking about getting more experienced for 4 years now. I know the landscape of college basketball is changing with transfers and what not, but we have not shown much movement in the experience/D dept. It's a constant excuse.
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The insanity of this post is most evident by the fact that we had the third highest three-point percentage in the country.
Clearly your 2nd grade math education makes you unable to realize that 3-point shots count more than 2-point shots. If you'd made it to 3rd grade math you could calculate that the rare team that makes over 40 percent of their shots from behind the arc is as effective as a team that makes over 60 percent of their two point shots.
Any understanding of basketball would further lead you to understand that a team with our height is not going to make anywhere remotely close to 60% of their 2-pointers, or the fact that "jacking up 3s" - over 40% of which go in - is the only thing that then allows Rowsey and Howard to spread the defense enough that they can drive or pass against a spread out defense to get the 2-point shots you so wish to watch - many more of which would be blocked.
Because I am so blinded by the utter stupidity of this argument I cannot even start to look at your other arguments.
While it appears to me you have made the most inane argument in all my years of reading the scoop, the only charitable explanation I can hope for is that you had never watched a basketball game since the three-point line was added and did not understand that the longer shots are called 3-pointers because they are, in fact, worth one more point than the other shots.
Please never coach a basketball team at any youth level - you would be a discredit to any youth league no matter how young, and force your players to relearn the game when they got a new coach the next year.
Sorry the year proved you so wrong.
The post you quoted was from November 2015, a year in which we shot 34% from 3, bottom third in D1.
Your point stands re: last year and this year however. But I doubt anyone was complaining about our 3 point shots last year or this year.
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So what if Stan's scouts were the Seton Hall games? Ya know what Seton Hall doesn't do? PnR. Ya know what we suck at? PnR defense.
The rest of this response is on me, I forgot about your clairvoyance into how coaches interact and what they are thinking by watching stuff on a TV screen every couple of days when the games are played.
Creighton runs a ton of pick and roll and we beat them twice. Who had those scouts?
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I cannot believe any of y'all are actually arguing with Ners.
He played high school ball, don'tcha know?!?!
OK, Wojo also played high school ball ... and college ball ... and worked under the winningest college coach ever.
But he didn't play Ners' level of high school ball, that's for sure!
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I cannot believe any of y'all are actually arguing with Ners.
He played high school ball, don'tcha know?!?!
OK, Wojo also played high school ball ... and college ball ... and worked under the winningest college coach ever.
But he didn't play Ners' level of high school ball, that's for sure!
You've gone off the rails again in your hatred 82. Peace be with you.
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Pretty sure Seton Hall games were Stan's scouts. Also, highly doubt Wojo takes much input from his staff. He's starting to reveal having a thin skin.
Assistants can make suggestions of course - yet imagine if an assistant were as passionate/dogged in their disagreement with Wojo, philosophically, as am I? You think the assistant would worry about getting fired? Probably. It's a hard deal. Would love to get Travis Diener one on one, off the record and pick his brain about his thoughts on Woj...
I don't know whose scouts Seton Hall were (and how do you know that?).....but we didn't do anything remarkably on defense differently then we usually do. Seton Hall just doesn't run the high pick and roll which we struggle against.
I can state for a fact that the assistants can speak freely with Wojo and are just as responsible for the defense as Wojo. Well that's not fair, the head coach is always more responsible.
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You've gone off the rails again in your hatred 82. Peace be with you.
Thoughts and prayers to MU82.
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We've been talking about getting more experienced for 4 years now. I know the landscape of college basketball is changing with transfers and what not, but we have not shown much movement in the experience/D dept. It's a constant excuse.
We were very experienced last season and made the tournament. We lost a lot of experience this year due to graduation. We should be very experienced for the next two seasons.
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Thoughts and prayers to MU82.
Seconded.
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I don't know whose scouts Seton Hall were (and how do you know that?).....but we didn't do anything remarkably on defense differently then we usually do. Seton Hall just doesn't run the high pick and roll which we struggle against.
I can state for a fact that the assistants can speak freely with Wojo and are just as responsible for the defense as Wojo. Well that's not fair, the head coach is always more responsible.
They mentioned on broadcast that Stan had the scout.
Out of curiosity, how does a high pick roll execute against a zone defense? 8-)
No doubt freedom of speech exists in this country and among a coaching staff. As you point out, buck stops with head coach though, and Wojo chose to roll M2M ~95% of possessions this season.
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We were very experienced last season and made the tournament. We lost a lot of experience this year due to graduation. We should be very experienced for the next two seasons.
...and hopefully a much more balanced team i.e. athletic guards and bigs as we move forward.
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Creighton runs a ton of pick and roll and we beat them twice. Who had those scouts?
Basically we outscored them and our defense wasn't anything to write home about. I will say that Epperson was having a dunk party in the first half of game 1 until we switched to zone. Before everyone jumps on this, I believe it was the right defense for that half of that game. Our defense pretty much stunk no matter how we aligned it. Changing our defenses was akin to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
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Fond memory. We need more physical and athletic players like Deonte. Then again, considering Wojo never started Deonte, maybe that's just not his kind of player?
Deonte was physical...kind of. Dude couldn't guard anyone.
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Deonte was physical...kind of. Dude couldn't guard anyone.
Couldn't, or wouldn't?
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Deonte was physical...kind of. Dude couldn't guard anyone.
And Wojo has a problem with this? :o
Deonte played a rover type of a D, which is why he had a high steal and block percentage throughout his career. He was more focused on being a playmaker defensively than being an elite, lock you up, one on one defender..
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And Wojo has a problem with this? :o
Deonte played a rover type of a D, which is why he had a high steal and block percentage throughout his career. He was more focused on being a playmaker defensively than being an elite, lock you up, one on one defender..
That really helps when you are trying to install a new team defensive concept
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Thoughts and prayers to MU82.
T&P
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Deonte Burton was a terrible defensive player. Deonte also needed to move on for personal reasons so beats me what he has to do with Wojo’s defensive acumen as a coach
And Wojo has a problem with this? :o
Deonte played a rover type of a D, which is why he had a high steal and block percentage throughout his career. He was more focused on being a playmaker defensively than being an elite, lock you up, one on one defender..
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And Wojo has a problem with this? :o
This made me laugh
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This made me laugh
Ditto!
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A year after making the Final Four, Tom Crean struggled mightily on the defensive end:
2003-04
104.6 AdjD (182nd per KenPom.com)
It took the arrival of Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward and company to break back into the Top 30 for adjusted defensive efficiency.
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A year after making the Final Four, Tom Crean struggled mightily on the defensive end:
2003-04
104.6 AdjD (182nd per KenPom.com)
It took the arrival of Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward and company to break back into the Top 30 for adjusted defensive efficiency.
The year of making the Final Four Crean struggled mightily on the defensive end. The 2003 Marquette team was by far the worst defensive team of the advanced stats era.
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The year after FF was an important year for the program and Crean failed. Building off FF was crucial and the team laid an egg. I felt that was turning point of Crean era and the start of the end for him.
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You've gone off the rails again in your hatred 82. Peace be with you.
To paraphrase the great Clubber Lang:
No, I don't hate Ners, but I pity da fool. And I will destroy any man who tries to wish me teal-toned thoughts and prayers.
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The year after FF was an important year for the program and Crean failed. Building off FF was crucial and the team laid an egg. I felt that was turning point of Crean era and the start of the end for him.
He got james McNeal Matthews and Lazar. He missed the tournament once (?) I'm not sure that's really a bad ending.
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Unleash
Ask Dick Strong what he thought of post FF year.
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He got james McNeal Matthews and Lazar. He missed the tournament once (?) I'm not sure that's really a bad ending.
Twice
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Unleash
Ask Dick Strong what he thought of post FF year.
Dick ain't around. He left with the Wojo hire.
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Dr.
I know.
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Ask Dick Strong what he thought of post FF year.
Related to Marquette, or his financial situation (being fined $60 million by the SEC, barred from managing money for life and seeing the dissolution of his financial empire)?
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I mean... come on right? Without Markus we wouldn’t have won! Or something... whatever. Now I’m just being sassy.
Good W. Great game. Showed a lot of strength in an ugly game. Hauser kept a level head after getting hammered with some tough calls.
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Marquette's team is 7-0
Wojo is 0-2
Not that hard to understand. Fire Wojo.
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I mean... come on right? Without Markus we wouldn’t have won! Or something... whatever. Now I’m just being sassy.
Good W. Great game. Showed a lot of strength in an ugly game. Hauser kept a level head after getting hammered with some tough calls.
so did theo...those refs must have spent 5 minutes looking for something they thought they saw during the play and it just didn't happen. the damn thing shouldn't have even been called a foul. the refs are looking at 2 different tv monitors wondering where the blood went
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so did theo...those refs must have spent 5 minutes looking for something they thought they saw during the play and it just didn't happen. the damn thing shouldn't have even been called a foul. the refs are looking at 2 different tv monitors wondering where the blood went
Theo got fouls called on him for the same reason that red sports cars get speeding tickets.
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Honestly I thought only one of Theo's fouls was a bad call, and that was on his block. And even then I think the problem was with the follow through. The way they were calling the game, the rest were at least consistent.
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Honestly I thought only one of Theo's fouls was a bad call, and that was on his block. And even then I think the problem was with the follow through. The way they were calling the game, the rest were at least consistent.
Funny thing is, the one they were reviewing for 5 minutes was the least agregious. Yes I realize they were looking for appendages to the head and neck region, but even at full speed, it was just 2 guys jockeying for position. The defenders neck didn’t snap back or anything, so there was really nothing that stood out about the play. it seemed at times the refs were micromanaging and at other times letting them play. But the players(nor the fans) knew when and where that would be.
My son being at the game, said he had never heard so much complaining about the refs after a solid win. The 2 technicals,didn’t help, but when the refs are part of the conversation after a win, that’s not good.
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Theo got his arm up to clear space. It was the right call. The reviewed to see if it was flagrant. It wasn't. Ultimately, the officials agreed that it was just two big guys jockeying for position but the offensive guy got his arm up. Right call, just another delay in a game without flow.
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Funny thing is, the one they were reviewing for 5 minutes was the least agregious. Yes I realize they were looking for appendages to the head and neck region, but even at full speed, it was just 2 guys jockeying for position. The defenders neck didn’t snap back or anything, so there was really nothing that stood out about the play. it seemed at times the refs were micromanaging and at other times letting them play. But the players(nor the fans) knew when and where that would be.
My son being at the game, said he had never heard so much complaining about the refs after a solid win. The 2 technicals,didn’t help, but when the refs are part of the conversation after a win, that’s not good.
I understand *why* they reviewed the play. By the rules they should have. I have no idea why it took so long to come to the conclusion they did. It was pretty obvious the first time they showed the replay.
I thought by far the two worst calls were the technicals. Both were immediate, very short reactions and neither were directed at the officials. And in college basketball, those count towards personal fouls which took two of the best players on the court out of the game. There was zero reason for the ref to call either one of them.
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I understand *why* they reviewed the play. By the rules they should have. I have no idea why it took so long to come to the conclusion they did. It was pretty obvious the first time they showed the replay.
I thought by far the two worst calls were the technicals. Both were immediate, very short reactions and neither were directed at the officials. And in college basketball, those count towards personal fouls which took two of the best players on the court out of the game. There was zero reason for the ref to call either one of them.
Agree on both technicals. The K-state one was the defender chasing Markus off a screen with a bump. Ticky tack and he reacted. Sam's felt like a make up call. It sure looked like a good defensive play, and then the same ref had the same short fuse. Both were wrong.
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Fred Hoiberg was just fired from the Bulls. If the Wojo experiment doesn't work out, maybe we would give "The Mayor" a shot.
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Fred Hoiberg was just fired from the Bulls. If the Wojo experiment doesn't work out, maybe we would give "The Mayor" a shot.
I have a feeling he will probably end up a very hot commodity if he does return to the college ranks. That said, I'd be very surprised if Marquette went after Hoiberg. He's a great offensive mind and will win wherever he goes, but something tells me admin wouldn't consider him.
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Fred Hoiberg was just fired from the Bulls. If the Wojo experiment doesn't work out, maybe we would give "The Mayor" a shot.
And Jim Boyle’s is promoted to coach - at least for now.
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Start it now, why not ? Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?
Premature
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Marquette's team is 7-0
Wojo is 0-2
Not that hard to understand. Fire Wojo.
:)
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:)
the one above yours was precious too-"start it now, why not?..." come back comment by alexius was succinct! wonder if skat man and mcderjim smoke rope together
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Start it now, why not ? Poor discipline. Poor coaching. Jacking up 3 pointers. Poor defense. No accountability. Another year of disappointment. Another year of poor defense against 3, poor interior defense and poor shooting. That's it ! How many millions does MU spend on BBall ?
^^^^^^^^^^
Dumb a$$
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^^^^^^^^^^
Dumb a$$
Maybe I should give more warnings. 82 already got a vacation. This counts as insult / disrespect. Don't do it, or you too can get a vacation.
Not to mention, that was on a 2015 comment!
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Maybe I should give more warnings. 82 already got a vacation. This counts as insult / disrespect. Don't do it, or you too can get a vacation.
Not to mention, that was on a 2015 comment!
You need Arby's
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You need Arby's
Maybe. But for a lease a few days you folks are going to be civil to each other, or else!
BTW, there are several ways to have the same effect as RCs post without calling someone a "dumbass"
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Maybe. But for a lease a few days you folks are going to be civil to each other, or else!
BTW, there are several ways to have the same effect as RCs post without calling someone a "dumbass"
I am surprised how sour many of the folks on the board have become, especially during a great run of basketball. It seems to be a lot of the sourness is from long term grudges, some dating back to the politics board.
I hate to see the mods need to get involved, but I think a show of force with public shaming for many of us is warranted.
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Maybe. But for a lease a few days you folks are going to be civil to each other, or else!
BTW, there are several ways to have the same effect as RCs post without calling someone a "dumbass"
NO Crap, too many are dumb butts.
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Oh, look, the 4th bullet point .. retribution.
Give it a rest.
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I, for one, welcome the ban hammer in all its glory.
All hail the ban hammer
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Maybe I should give more warnings. 82 already got a vacation. This counts as insult / disrespect. Don't do it, or you too can get a vacation.
Not to mention, that was on a 2015 comment!
Guilty as charged Wocky.
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Fire Rocky! Fire Hilltopper!
OOPS!
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Hire Danny Manning
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It's no wonder that everyone's moral compass has been screwed up lately. We've been rooting for Lousiville, and in a couple weeks time we'll have to root for Cincinnati. That's enough to throw off anyone's psyche.
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Jaysus. 3 weeks ago a historic collapse was about the only thing that could revive this thread. Well done Wojo, you truly are the king of mediocre.
2 NCAA wins can still salvage this, but that’s looking like a big order.
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Was wondering when someone would bump this
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Was wondering when someone would bump this
Well. A 4 game L streak to close out the year to erase all positive mojo from this year
Wojo has no mojo
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We’re stuck with Wojo now. He has slightly improved the program with no scandals. If it was less than 5 years, he significantly improved the program he inherited from the Buzz double doink final season.
We will be Top 10 next year. And we have the potential for a Top 10 2020 recruiting season. The admin fully supports him.
I’m guessing he gets a slight bonus increase with 3 years, all based on next years performance and recruiting. Need this to support the incoming class. Sad that 5 years later we are still wondering if the current leadership can take us to the consistent Top 20 level
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We’re stuck with Wojo now. He has slightly improved the program with no scandals. If it was less than 5 years, he significantly improved the program he inherited from the Buzz double doink final season.
We will be Top 10 next year. And we have the potential for a Top 10 2020 recruiting season. The admin fully supports him.
I’m guessing he gets a slight bonus increase with 3 years, all based on next years performance and recruiting. Need this to support the incoming class. Sad that 5 years later we are still wondering if the current leadership can take us to the consistent Top 20 level
We should drop out of the Big East and disband the basketball program.
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Fire up, Wojo!
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I think if people proposed a 23-8 season, second place in the BE and a BE record of 12-6, Most people would have signed up. Now the fact that we lost 4 in a row absolutely sucks, especially losing the BE title like we did.
So given how well our recruiting is going, the upward trajectory makes me content that we have good things ahead. This team has flaws especially at PG, Markus is a 2. I am happy with the season and how it went, especially after the IU game.
With greg, koby and possibly symir here next year, i feel good about our situation at the 1 going forward.
Slide Markus to the 2 and have him play 10-15 minutes a game at the 1.
Provided hes doing ok there and we will be much better next year. This years experiences, good n bad, will pay huge dividends next year.
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Haven’t been ready for an important game in a month. Should have listened to me 4+ years ago....Wojo doesn’t have it
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Morant made a few extra million today courtesy of Wojo and crew, aina?
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Officially off the Wojo bandwagon after yesterday. I'm not calling for his firing but I no longer believe he's a coach that can get us to the next step.
I'd compare Wojo to a salesman who hits 80-90% of quota every month. That's decent enough where no manager is going to fire that individual but it's consistently frustrating and that person will never take the next step.
I think let him finish with Markus and Sam next year, worst case we make a second tournament appearance and bow out right away then we depart from Wojo. best case everyone puts it together and we can extend wojo a bit.
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Avery Johnson being bought out after 4 years. A non basketball school with a high profile ex NBA guy as a coach. Why aren’t they giving him another year? Year five will be the year. If he doesn’t get it done then I’ll be ready to cut bait. I promise.
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Amazin' how little Wojo apparently absorbed while sittin' next ta K four 15 years, aina?
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I don't know what the Wojo contract looks like, in terms of years left or a buyout provision. MU is not the type to be able to throw millions at someone to leave. In fact, with Crean and Buzz, it would seem they actually came out ahead, financially.
So, since (1) Wojo is not exactly a hot commodity for the UCLA's of the world, (2) MU is not going to pay millions for him to leave, and (3) there is no obvious successor, MU and Wojo are stuck with each other.
Next year, on this date, one of the above factors will change.
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So no is a really nice guy. Loves his team. He's a great recruiter. But, he is not a very good coach. Too often he doesn't seem to prepare the team for opponents. And, he doesn't coach well during games. He doesn't make adjustments to win. He made a huge mistake sitting his top scorer on the bench for four minutes in the first half. He "cooled off" Markus for the game.
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Two things: This absolutely needs to get bumped..so bump. The other...after reading these threads...who is this Cheeks dude with the hugging bears? Wojo burner account...?
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Dick ain't around
Dick is along?
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Two things: This absolutely needs to get bumped..so bump. The other...after reading these threads...who is this Cheeks dude with the hugging bears? Wojo burner account...?
A Wojo Cuck. Typically holds the video camera.
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I noticed that this thread was started in 2015 and the exact same things are being brought up today...looks like Wojo has learned nothing and it's the same old stuff.
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I'm bumping this to post a warning. Anybody that just wants to come here and scream "Fire Wojo" etc, without offering any other any other thoughts will be banned for the rest of this season.
Poor Steve (post above) lost his privileges earlier today.
Now, I get it, after a tough loss, people like to fume. We allow that. You can also hate wojo, and lay out all the reasons he deserves to be fired. I have no problem there. But we've suddenly acquired too many instigators without enough substance. I don't care how long you've been a member, or that other folks might think you're "good people".
If you want to post negative one-liners - stick to twitter. Here's a few examples of people on my short list...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=10838
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=140
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=8299
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How does this work? If i day fire wojo! Thats bannable but what if if i say fire wojo cuz he sucks! Is that enough substance. Ik not even guy that wants to fire wojo rn lol. Just wondering 😜
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How does this work? If i day fire wojo! Thats bannable but what if if i say fire wojo cuz he sucks! Is that enough substance. Ik not even guy that wants to fire wojo rn lol. Just wondering 😜
Don't try to understand the rules. That's impossible.
You'll know if you break them!
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I'm bumping this to post a warning. Anybody that just wants to come here and scream "Fire Wojo" etc, without offering any other any other thoughts will be banned for the rest of this season.
Poor Steve (post above) lost his privileges earlier today.
Now, I get it, after a tough loss, people like to fume. We allow that. You can also hate wojo, and lay out all the reasons he deserves to be fired. I have no problem there. But we've suddenly acquired too many instigators without enough substance. I don't care how long you've been a member, or that other folks might think you're "good people".
If you want to post negative one-liners - stick to twitter. Here's a few examples of people on my short list...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=10838
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=140
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=8299
The real Meat Summit happens at Arby’s, old timers.
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Don't try to understand the rules. That's impossible.
You'll know if you break them!
The amount of times I've been slandered and name-called by certain Projos and I end up on this list. Ok. Weird how it's all Nojos and no Projos. What about the guy that tried to doxx someone in defense of Wojo? Is he still around?
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I'm bumping this to post a warning. Anybody that just wants to come here and scream "Fire Wojo" etc, without offering any other any other thoughts will be banned for the rest of this season.
Poor Steve (post above) lost his privileges earlier today.
Now, I get it, after a tough loss, people like to fume. We allow that. You can also hate wojo, and lay out all the reasons he deserves to be fired. I have no problem there. But we've suddenly acquired too many instigators without enough substance. I don't care how long you've been a member, or that other folks might think you're "good people".
If you want to post negative one-liners - stick to twitter. Here's a few examples of people on my short list...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=10838
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=140
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=8299
That's all?
Jesus wept, my list would be 3 max posts long.
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The real Meat Summit happens at Arby’s, old timers.
where's the beeef ptm?
here's the real beef-wojo has shown no improvement, teams have figured him and the players out, especially as we get deeper into the season, teams have either played us and/or scouted us. there has been absolutely no plan "b", "c" or "d" and due to all of this, the players are losing their confidence in him wojo even tried getting a "T" (GASP!!) the other game and that went out like a fizzle. the players were like-nice try man, but ya shoulda been doing that 8 games ago. it took the worst officiated game of the year for him to get a technical?? i was watching sean miller friggin spit all over himself in the game against ucla. the ref "t'd" him up. miller didn't lose a beat, almost got the 2nd one before the ref could get to the scorers table...not to worry, seanie finished himself off in the 2nd half in huggie bear fashion. now that is takin one for the team. just don't get the first technical of your career in your 5th season and expect to fire up your team...yawn
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where's the beeef ptm?
here's the real beef-wojo has shown no improvement, teams have figured him and the players out, especially as we get deeper into the season, teams have either played us and/or scouted us. there has been absolutely no plan "b", "c" or "d" and due to all of this, the players are losing their confidence in him wojo even tried getting a "T" (GASP!!) the other game and that went out like a fizzle. the players were like-nice try man, but ya shoulda been doing that 8 games ago. it took the worst officiated game of the year for him to get a technical?? i was watching sean miller friggin spit all over himself in the game against ucla. the ref "t'd" him up. miller didn't lose a beat, almost got the 2nd one before the ref could get to the scorers table...not to worry, seanie finished himself off in the 2nd half in huggie bear fashion. now that is takin one for the team. just don't get the first technical of your career in your 5th season and expect to fire up your team...yawn
Why you gots to insult Arby’s with a Wendy’s reference?
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ND Sucks
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Darn. We are engaged in the exact same debate from 5 years earlier. This thread aged remarkably well.
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I'd like to see one season without Howard to see if he resets his coaching philosophy to more team-oriented one. I think that will open the player pipeline more than anything.
Really, mostly I'd like to see us defend better. We have so much trouble getting runs going because we don't get momentum building stops nearly often enough. We should have size and athleticism next season throughout the roster. If we can't defend well then, we probably never will.
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I'd like to see one season without Howard to see if he resets his coaching philosophy to more team-oriented one. I think that will open the player pipeline more than anything.
Really, mostly I'd like to see us defend better. We have so much trouble getting runs going because we don't get momentum building stops nearly often enough. We should have size and athleticism next season throughout the roster. If we can't defend well then, we probably never will.
To be fair, it was said the defense would be greatly improved this season due to better size and athleticism...
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To be fair, it was said the defense would be greatly improved this season due to better size and athleticism...
We certainly have better athleticism, but less size.
Our KenPom AdjD rating went from 96.7 last year to 96.3 this year, which is an improvement statistically, although our ranking decreased from 45 to 67 due to more teams having a better rating. Overall it's pretty close and I'd call it a wash.
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We certainly have better athleticism, but less size.
Our KenPom AdjD rating went from 96.7 last year to 96.3 this year, which is an improvement statistically, although our ranking decreased from 45 to 67 due to more teams having a better rating. Overall it's pretty close and I'd call it a wash.
MU’s defense in conference is 105.5 this season, good for ninth. It was 2nd last year, with the so-called soft serves in place. Does that make this year’s team the “banana splits” or the “marshmallow sundaes”?
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MU’s defense in conference is 105.5 this season, good for ninth. It was 2nd last year, with the so-called soft serves in place. Does that make this year’s team the “banana splits” or the “marshmallow sundaes”?
Thanks for the info, that's interesting.
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Don't try to understand the rules. That's impossible.
You'll know if you break them!
Shoot, I didn't make the short list. It's time to step up my game.
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MU’s defense in conference is 105.5 this season, good for ninth. It was 2nd last year, with the so-called soft serves in place. Does that make this year’s team the “banana splits” or the “marshmallow sundaes”?
How old are we though -- I was told a few years ago that experience is a really important thing.
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Hiroshima. An event, not a place.
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5 years ago I called this coach out ! Still zero NCAA wins...add 2021 as another lost year
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This needs to be bumped.
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How does this work? If i day fire wojo! Thats bannable but what if if i say fire wojo cuz he sucks! Is that enough substance. Ik not even guy that wants to fire wojo rn lol. Just wondering 😜
Crean sucks.
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I'm bumping this to post a warning. Anybody that just wants to come here and scream "Fire Wojo" etc, without offering any other any other thoughts will be banned for the rest of this season.
Poor Steve (post above) lost his privileges earlier today.
Now, I get it, after a tough loss, people like to fume. We allow that. You can also hate wojo, and lay out all the reasons he deserves to be fired. I have no problem there. But we've suddenly acquired too many instigators without enough substance. I don't care how long you've been a member, or that other folks might think you're "good people".
If you want to post negative one-liners - stick to twitter. Here's a few examples of people on my short list...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=10838
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=140
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=8299
Not knowing how the forum structure worked. Clicked the 1st link and saw my name. Sitting here going wtf did I do to make a short list! For way to long of a time.
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Not knowing how the forum structure worked. Clicked the 1st link and saw my name. Sitting here going wtf did I do to make a short list! For way to long of a time.
Hah, it's gotten (somewhat deservedly) worse. But I wish these kiddos that come out of the woodwork would understand that hyperbole is not their friend.
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We suck.
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Only two games left in the season.... Fire Wojo, because he sucks. See you next year, with the same loser
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Serious question: when's the soonest Wojo would actually be gone? When is his contract up? Will he be fired before then?
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Serious question: when's the soonest Wojo would actually be gone? When is his contract up? Will he be fired before then?
End of next season. Harbaugh his contract this season, fire him next if he doesn't win enough. Not sure what admin would define as win enough
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End of next season. Harbaugh his contract this season, fire him next if he doesn't win enough. Not sure what admin would define as win enough
top 2 nit seed
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There’s no fire in this admin to be great since Cottingham. Anybody’s guess how long they’ll let this go on.
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Not sure what admin would define as win enough
Above .500 but the team is made up of stand up individuals!!
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There’s no fire in this admin to be great since Cottingham. Anybody’s guess how long they’ll let this go on.
I worked on a Human Concerns Commission with Steve Cottingham’s Mother In Law for many years, very nice and kind lady.
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Above .500 but the team is made up of stand up individuals!!
This admin? 15 wins gets Wojo-Dukiet another 7 years.
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End of next season. Harbaugh his contract this season, fire him next if he doesn't win enough. Not sure what admin would define as win enough
What do you mean by "Harbaugh his contract?" I'm not familiar with that situation.
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What do you mean by "Harbaugh his contract?" I'm not familiar with that situation.
Very small extension but extremely low buy out. It essentially says we're going to let you bet on yourself if you want to stay. If not you should go.
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There’s no fire in this admin to be great since Cottingham. Anybody’s guess how long they’ll let this go on.
Cottingham hired Buzz. And that's pretty much it.
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Cottingham hired Buzz. And that's pretty much it.
This same group also hired Carolyn Kieger and Megan Duffy. The rest of the sports programs are on pretty solid footing, too. I know, I know
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Very small extension but extremely low buy out. It essentially says we're going to let you bet on yourself if you want to stay. If not you should go.
Thank you.
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Cottingham hired Buzz. And that's pretty much it.
Started two LAX programs and hired those two coaches, got momentum going for the soccer complex that was downsized later, put money into volleyball and hired Bond.
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This same group also hired Carolyn Kieger and Megan Duffy. The rest of the sports programs are on pretty solid footing, too. I know, I know
Pretty sure Cottingham also hired Amplo.
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This same group also hired Carolyn Kieger and Megan Duffy. The rest of the sports programs are on pretty solid footing, too. I know, I know
Didn't Cords hire Kieger the same off-season he hired Wojo?
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This same group also hired Carolyn Kieger and Megan Duffy. The rest of the sports programs are on pretty solid footing, too. I know, I know
To be fair, “handled Women’s BB and other non-revenue sports well” is what allowed JLP to set DePaul basketball on fire repeatedly for a decade plus
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Didn't Cords hire Kieger the same off-season he hired Wojo?
Yes. Cords also hired Theis.
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Started two LAX programs and hired those two coaches, got momentum going for the soccer complex that was downsized later, put money into volleyball and hired Bond.
Yep. He did a good job.
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from ESPN:
Your comprehensive guide to the 2021 college basketball coaching hot seat
Wojo is listed under the "I'd Be surprised..." section
Marquette: Had the pandemic not canceled the NCAA tournament, Marquette would have been entering this season with three appearances in the last four years. Granted, this season went off the rails following wins over Wisconsin and Creighton, but Steve Wojciechowski is signed through 2024, has two ESPN 100 recruits entering the program and I'm told the administration likes him.
Not what i was hoping to read to say the least.
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Hey, https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/ has added Wojo this week:
Steve Wojciechowski (Marquette)
Woj has taken the Golden Eagles to two NCAA Tournaments but has yet to win a game once getting there. This year’s team is bad and when you pair that with the numerous player defections (Hauser twins being the most impactful) and decent-to-average recruiting you get a coach that is vastly underperforming and a fan base that is frankly tired of it.
The Marquette program under Woj has been mediocre at best and when you look at the seasons without Markus Howard filling up the stat sheet, things look downright bleak.
His contract runs through 2023-24 but his buyout is unknown (private school).
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This is a pretty spot on Cliff Notes version (for you younguns, google Cliff Notes) 'cept da Hausers are ant twins, aina?
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Hey, https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/ has added Wojo this week:
Steve Wojciechowski (Marquette)
Woj has taken the Golden Eagles to two NCAA Tournaments but has yet to win a game once getting there. This year’s team is bad and when you pair that with the numerous player defections (Hauser twins being the most impactful) and decent-to-average recruiting you get a coach that is vastly underperforming and a fan base that is frankly tired of it.
The Marquette program under Woj has been mediocre at best and when you look at the seasons without Markus Howard filling up the stat sheet, things look downright bleak.
His contract runs through 2023-24 but his buyout is unknown (private school).
Yes, but he is not a racist like Greg McDermott and runs a clean program.
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To summarize:
Wojo either is or isn't on the hot seat.
It's March 4. Within the next month or so, we'll know exactly how hot his seat has been.
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Schrodinger's cat.
Sch-wojo-dingers cat.
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To summarize:
Wojo either is or isn't on the hot seat.
It's March 4. Within the next month or so, we'll know exactly how hot his seat has been.
We will know in the next ten days.
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We will know in the next ten days.
Unless we win the BET! 😂
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Unless we win the BET! 😂
Well, if we do that I think its safe to say he will be back next year.
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We will know in the next ten days.
Here's hoping.
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Unless we win the BET! 😂
Not happening. And it will be another frustrating March as we see many teams playing, but we are not. Wojo-Dukiet must go. But that likely is not happening with the candy ass decision makers at MU.
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Not happening. And it will be another frustrating March as we see many teams playing, but we are not. Wojo-Dukiet must go. But that likely is not happening with the candy ass decision makers at MU.
Have you quit making donations to the university?
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Have you quit making donations to the university?
Your condescending logic is so backwards. Why punish the entire University for the failures of the basketball team?
I’m not so spiteful against Wojo that I’d like to see the entire school become a midmajor.
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Your condescending logic is so backwards. Why punish the entire University for the failures of the basketball team?
I’m not so spiteful against Wojo that I’d like to see the entire school become a midmajor.
Money talks, BS walks
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Money talks, BS walks
Nice non-descript response. Now I’m sure you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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Your condescending logic is so backwards. Why punish the entire University for the failures of the basketball team?
I’m not so spiteful against Wojo that I’d like to see the entire school become a midmajor.
We kind of agree. There's no reason to withhold donations to the engineering school or the journalism school or the philosophy department.
But buying basketball tickets - money they are just gonna turn around to use to pay for Wojo's extension - that's a heck of a way to show one wants Wojo gone.
The ONLY response that fans have at their disposal that has a chance to work is hitting the athletic department in the wallet -- even if you think that being on an interwebs site, kvetching, and belittling fellow fans who root for the team to win individual games is somehow better.
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Nice non-descript response. Now I’m sure you don’t know what you’re talking about.
If you think bellyaching on message boards over and over about the coach and program are what is going to get a change made immediately, you’re wrong. No one is any longer arguing about the merits of keeping Wojo as a coach on these here message boards. Maybe they are at Dodds but not on Scoop. The horse has been beaten to death. Actions speak louder than words. Money speaks louder than actions for places like Marquette. That’s just a way of life. You don’t have to like it, but if people want immediate change, hit them where it hurts immediately and that isn’t having every post you make on scoop about the coach and program
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Your condescending logic is so backwards. Why punish the entire University for the failures of the basketball team?
I’m not so spiteful against Wojo that I’d like to see the entire school become a midmajor.
Lovell overextended. That new biz school bldg? Will be half empty. Zoom.
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Lovell overextended. That new biz school bldg? Will be half empty. Zoom.
Don’t get ahead of yourself. The idea that most or greatly increasing amounts of Higher Ed will be Zoom or virtual is overdone. It has appeal but most students, especially business students, and professors still want a traditional classroom experience.
Acting like it’s going to sit empty cause everything will be virtual is as silly as assuming all office towers downtown will be empty cause we got breathless articles from tech writers over the summer declaring the end of traditional offices
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Don’t get ahead of yourself. The idea that most or greatly increasing amounts of Higher Ed is overdone. It has appeal but most students, especially business students, and professors still want a traditional classroom experience.
Acting like it’s going to sit empty cause everything will be virtual is as silly as assuming all office towers downtown will be empty cause we got breathless articles from tech writers over the summer declaring the end of traditional offices
tour on me. Free of charge. Dont worry. We won’t be interrupting anyone.
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Don’t get ahead of yourself. The idea that most or greatly increasing amounts of Higher Ed will be Zoom or virtual is overdone. It has appeal but most students, especially business students, and professors still want a traditional classroom experience.
Acting like it’s going to sit empty cause everything will be virtual is as silly as assuming all office towers downtown will be empty cause we got breathless articles from tech writers over the summer declaring the end of traditional offices
Completely agreed. In fact I think this year showed why an on campus, residential education is so valuable.
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Completely agreed. In fact I think this year showed why an on campus, residential education is so valuable.
Many businesses pride themselves on their fancy offices and buildings. It’s a chance to show off