Woj Colored Glasses

[Mr. Nielsen]

Talk about a loser...

Thank you for saying it.

[muguru]

Talk about a loser...

Some of you here are happy with where the program is, and are willing to accept the mediocrity that has prevailed under Wojo...Others of us, have MUCH higher expectations for the program..you know like making the NCAA's every year, being in the top half of the conference, etc. But wait...there's always next year, right?? And if that fails, there will be next year...or the year after that, right?? Who's the loser??

[g0lden3agle]

No, failure to recognize mediocrity of Wojo =slurper. But...we will be really good next year.

Then I guess the whole administration is slurping away....

[muguru]

Then I guess the whole administration is slurping away....

 +1000 They are and it's sad really, as are so many MU fans now days.

[willie warrior]

Then I guess the whole administration is slurping away....

you guessed right. Still impressed with that magnificent power point presentation.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I could be wrong but I don’t think TAMU is necessarily saying what he wants to happen but rather what he believes will happen re Wojo

Correct. At this point I would want to give him a 6th year too...but it really depends on how next season goes. Year 5 is the one I have been waiting for.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Maybe, but presumably if enough people vote with their feet (or wallets I guess) maybe the BOT will take notice. Although I guess that will be obscured next year with the new stadium.

I really want to believe that all of the pieces are coming together. But when you lose to DePaul, when your NCAA tournament life is on the line (along with all of the other disappointments over the past year/4 years) it's hard to see the light in that tunnel, or to balance the creeping mediocrity against the Villanova win and a 1st round tourney exit.

No need to vote with your wallet. If Wojo doesn't deliver in the next two years he will be fired.

[muguru]

No need to vote with your wallet. If Wojo doesn't deliver in the next two years he will be fired.

Yes but what is "delivering"?? I'm afraid that with the current administration/board, making the NCAA's will be good enough..whoopie!!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wojo either can't recruit, can't coach, or some of both. There are no other explanations at this point. If we don't make the NCAA next year with a team that you all think should be a secured seed/second weekend, then he needs to go.

Wojo didn't deserve a 6 year guarantee when he started. He earned it by meeting expectations each season.  Year 1, put a team on the court. Year 2, get better. Year 3, make the tourney. Year 4, weather the departures of a bunch of upperclassmen and put together a young and competitive team. You may not like it, but that's what the reasonable expectations were first years 1-4. Wojo has yet to exceed any of them (so your Peter Gibbons reference may end being true) but he has yet to miss any of them.

The game changes in year 5 and year 6. It's not enough to just make the tournament he will be expected to make the tournament comfortably. If he fails next season, it will be the first time he didn't make expectations in a season. I don't think he gets fired the first time he fails. I think he will get one more chance and if he fails again he will be gone.

Wojo either can't recruit, can't coach, or some of both. There are no other explanations at this point. If we don't make the NCAA next year with a team that you all think should be a secured seed/second weekend, then he needs to go.

There actually are other explanations. Wojo inherited a team that was going to have its best players graduate between year 3 and year 4. Unless Wojo decided to run those players off, there was always going to be off between years 3 and year 4. We were old last season, we're young this season, and we'll be old again next season. Part of the natural ebb and flow of college basketball.

And if we lose out this year we're 16-15 and not going to the NIT. A grand total of one first-round exit in 4 years should at least have the BOTs eyes open if, by some happenstance, some ideal candidate falls in their laps.

Losing out would probably mean no NIT. I don't think we're going to lose out but we could. It would be interesting if an "ideal candidate" became available after year 5. If year 5 is a fail (but not a disaster), I think Wojo still gets one more year. But if some ideal candidate was available and made it known that he would take the job, I wonder if the BOT would act on it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yes but what is "delivering"?? I'm afraid that with the current administration/board, making the NCAA's will be good enough..whoopie!!

Your assumption would be incorrect. Game changes in year 5. It's no longer about growth, it's about sustained and elevating success. If we're not competing for top seeds and conference championships in years 5 and 6, then it will be time to move on.

[GGGG]

Some of you here are happy with where the program is, and are willing to accept the mediocrity that has prevailed under Wojo...Others of us, have MUCH higher expectations for the program..you know like making the NCAA's every year, being in the top half of the conference, etc. But wait...there's always next year, right?? And if that fails, there will be next year...or the year after that, right?? Who's the loser??

Again, you should learn how to read.  No one is happy with this. No one is saying Wojo is a great coach right now. People are saying that next year is the year to judge for multiple reasons - its been what he has been building for. 

Furthermore it's just reality.  All the bitching and moaning in the world isn't going to change the fact that Wojo will be here next year.

Seriously stop misrepresenting what people are saying.  Either learn how to read or go root for someone else.

[jesmu84]

Lol. There it is. Was wondering when the blame game started for your pretending that Wojo should be taking a team with a single senior and single junior on it to a top 3 finish and S16 appearance. Sad that you would intentionally set an insane bar just so at this point in the season you can bash Wojo for not “meeting expectations.”

Of all the stupidity you’ve shared here, this might take the cake. Well done.

Not true. The guy stated he liked to have intentionally unprotected sex with girls because they were drunk.

[Herman Cain]

No need to vote with your wallet. If Wojo doesn't deliver in the next two years he will be fired.

Wojo will not be fired. The bromance with Lovell is stronger than ever. The BOT loves that they have a Duke guy. Scholl is smart enough to know that the real AD at Marquette is and always has been the head basketball coach. So no constituency for change.

The only way Wojo goes, is if there is a Power 5 football school that has a basketball opening and a deep pocketed donor who will provide the tools of the trade. Absent that Wojo is our coach for the long term.

Looking forward to winning the next two games and then a spirited run in the BET. Season is far from over.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Well those are some really dumb choices... I think people need to relax a little in the sense that a team is never as good as you may think.  MU won at Prov and Creighton, who both beat Nova.  And never as bad on the gloomy days either.
Lately, Wojo has been the target of peoples frustration and i think at times well deserved.  Today i really dont believe so. 
First half if we simply rebound the ball and dont turn it over we are up 15+.  Now Wojo is ultimately in charge butmany of those turnovers were simply unforced and many if the rebounds were thru our hands. Wojo didnt tell them to fumble rebounds or too throw the ball away on half of our first half breaks.
Second half Rowsey was terrible, wojo has stressed Rowsey as a pass first PG.  16 assists in our two wins, 1 today and many many stupid “im going to put the team on my back “ shots.  Howard too, great shooter last year within the offense, this year a hero ball chucker. 
Whats Wojo gonna do bench them both?  And play whom?  Elliott and Cain?  They are Freshman matching up against bigger stronger upper classmen and struggled today.  Cain 4 fouls in 6 minutes? No one clicked.  Wojo kept trying different things.  Went big, went small, tried zone, the zone didnt werk either.  Man defense was sufficient but could not finish the possesions with boards.
We struggled offensively an howard and especially Rowsey decided to shoot us out of it. 
Alot of credit goes to Depaul, they had 6” and 20lbs and at least two yrs of experience on their matchup across the board today, on top of it and most importantly they played smarter than  us.  In a year or two sam, jamal, theo, joey, cain, morrow etc will all be older, stronger and smarter. 
I understand No one wants to give depaul any credit and the only reason we could have lost is because Wojo sucks.  But depaul does have BE players n they out played us today with physical n mental maturity.  Coaches lose games but not this one.

[Marquette4life]

Correct. At this point I would want to give him a 6th year too...but it really depends on how next season goes. Year 5 is the one I have been waiting for.

what are you expecting TAMU

[muguru]

Again, you should learn how to read.  No one is happy with this. No one is saying Wojo is a great coach right now. People are saying that next year is the year to judge for multiple reasons - its been what he has been building for. 

Furthermore it's just reality.  All the bitching and moaning in the world isn't going to change the fact that Wojo will be here next year.

Seriously stop misrepresenting what people are saying.  Either learn how to read or go root for someone else.

This is the part that irritates me to no end, people giving Wojo a pass until year 5...I will ask again, why SHOULD it take that long?? How long did it take Cuonzo Martin to take Missouri(one of the worst high major programs for years) back to the NCAA's(and playing without an all american all year I might add), How long did it take Buzz to rebuild Va Tech(he will now be getting his 2nd NCAA berth in 4 years, plus one NIT bid), Chris Holtmann at OSU, in ONE year he has taken a moribound program, and had them competing for the top of the B10 and in the NCAA tournament. Danny Hurley at ASU, how long has it taken him?? Keatts at NC State, will likely make the NCAA's this year(or at least very close to it). I just don't get why Wojo gets such a pass for his first 4 years, and others have demonstrated that they can turn programs around in 1 year. It baffles me.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wojo will not be fired. The bromance with Lovell is stronger than ever. The BOT loves that they have a Duke guy. Scholl is smart enough to know that the real AD at Marquette is and always has been the head basketball coach. So no constituency for change.

The only way Wojo goes, is if there is a Power 5 football school that has a basketball opening and a deep pocketed donor who will provide the tools of the trade. Absent that Wojo is our coach for the long term.

Looking forward to winning the next two games and then a spirited run in the BET. Season is far from over.

Hey Hermie,

I know your a yuge insider. Whatever happened to that contact extension for Wojo that you said was already finalized because Lovell had such a man crush on Wojo? I didn't read anything about it ever going through. What happened?

[GGGG]

This is the part that irritates me to no end, people giving Wojo a pass until year 5...I will ask again, why SHOULD it take that long?? How long did it take Cuonzo Martin to take Missouri(one of the worst high major programs for years) back to the NCAA's(and playing without an all american all year I might add), How long did it take Buzz to rebuild Va Tech(he will now be getting his 2nd NCAA berth in 4 years, plus one NIT bid), Chris Holtmann at OSU, in ONE year he has taken a moribound program, and had them competing for the top of the B10 and in the NCAA tournament. Danny Hurley at ASU, how long has it taken him?? Keatts at NC State, will likely make the NCAA's this year(or at least very close to it). I just don't get why Wojo gets such a pass for his first 4 years, and others have demonstrated that they can turn programs around in 1 year. It baffles me.

OK.  I guess I will just breathlessly bitch about him on a message board.  That will solve everything.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

This is the part that irritates me to no end, people giving Wojo a pass until year 5...I will ask again, why SHOULD it take that long?? How long did it take Cuonzo Martin to take Missouri(one of the worst high major programs for years) back to the NCAA's(and playing without an all american all year I might add), How long did it take Buzz to rebuild Va Tech(he will now be getting his 2nd NCAA berth in 4 years, plus one NIT bid), Chris Holtmann at OSU, in ONE year he has taken a moribound program, and had them competing for the top of the B10 and in the NCAA tournament. Danny Hurley at ASU, how long has it taken him?? Keatts at NC State, will likely make the NCAA's this year(or at least very close to it). I just don't get why Wojo gets such a pass for his first 4 years, and others have demonstrated that they can turn programs around in 1 year. It baffles me.

Guru those teams all had significantly better talent returning than MU.  Now im not saying Wojo is blamless but he had very little to werk with.  Osu has mcdonalds all americans n other big time players,  nc state talent too.  They under acheived under an old coach.  Buzz got to take his players with him.  Im not saying every rebuild has to take 5 years, but along the same lines not every rebuild is the same.  So quit beating the same dead horse.  And while ur at it give him some fin credit for getting the team into the ncaas last year.  Have u forgotten that already.???   This team is prolly two different game results from being an ncaa team its nit like we are a 10-20 program.  And i realize its year 4 , u wont let anyone forget, but we r really young and talented. 
Give it a rest it would be malpractice n imprudent for tge administration to do anything at this point.

[wadesworld]

Not true. The guy stated he liked to have intentionally unprotected sex with girls because they were drunk.

You are correct. I stand very much corrected.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

The tiring thing about WW & muguru and the others who come out of the woodwork after a loss is it's so black and white with them. You must agree with them that Wojo needs to be fired today. Don't agree with this? Well you must be a "slurper" or want Wojo retained for time immemorial regardless of record. sigh. My guess is those of us that want to give Wojo more time are at different points on the spectrum and I doubt any of us are much beyond 2 more years for valid reasons that TAMU tends to set forth in a more cogent manner than I ever could. But I guess it is simply easier to turn to insults. That's the type of stuff that makes the Board unreadable at times.

TAMU must get tired of having to retype his thoughts on this over and over and over again.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

what are you expecting TAMU

For next season? Assuming no major additions or defections: Top 4 in conference. Team that flirts with the top 25 all season. Somewhere between a 4-8 seed in the NCAAs. Year after that? Even better. Legitimate Final Four contender (but there's a lot of time between now and then).

Look at the Big East standings to the left. Two elite teams at the top and then 4 teams at 9-7. We're sitting just below them at 7-9. It seems like we're just a cut below those 4 this season. Here's what is going to happen to those teams in the offseason:

Butler: Graduate All Big East Kelan Martin and starting center Tyler Wideman. Brings in one recruit rated #378 by 247 Composite. Brings in a midseason transfer from Duke (only appeared in 2 games) who was a top 75 type player. Trend?: Down

Creighton: Graduates All Big East First team Markus Foster, starting big Toby Hegner, and backup big Manny Suarez. May also lose all Big East Khyri Thomas to draft (currently projects as a late first rounder). Brings in a solid recruiting class with three 4 star players (but none in the top 100). Also brings in a transfer who averaged 5 points for New Mexico last season. Krampelj also returns from injury but who knows how he'll be after his second ACL tear. Trend?: Neutral (if Thomas stays) Down (if Thomas goes)

Providence: Graduates All Big East players Kyron Cartwright and Rodney Bullock as well as starting wing Jalen Lindsey. Bring in a great recruiting class with two top 50 players (#42, #44) and two 3 stars. May get Emmitt Holt back from injury. Trend?: Down

Seton Hall: Graduates All Big East Player Angel Delgado and starters Khadeen Carrington, Desi Rodriguez, and Ish Sanogo. Brings in two 3 stars rated in the 200s. Also brings in a solid transfer from Syracuse and a high scoring transfer from Sacred Heart. Trend? Down

Compare that to:

Marquette: Graduates Andrew Rowsey, a big loss for sure (though a net positive just on defense). Brings in a solid transfer from Nebraska, a top 50 freshman, a 21 year old freshman who was a top 75 player, and brings back a 3 star project from redshirt. Trend?: Up.

A lot still needs to happen between this season and next season, but as of now, things are looking very good for us.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is the part that irritates me to no end, people giving Wojo a pass until year 5...I will ask again, why SHOULD it take that long?? How long did it take Cuonzo Martin to take Missouri(one of the worst high major programs for years) back to the NCAA's(and playing without an all american all year I might add), How long did it take Buzz to rebuild Va Tech(he will now be getting his 2nd NCAA berth in 4 years, plus one NIT bid), Chris Holtmann at OSU, in ONE year he has taken a moribound program, and had them competing for the top of the B10 and in the NCAA tournament. Danny Hurley at ASU, how long has it taken him?? Keatts at NC State, will likely make the NCAA's this year(or at least very close to it). I just don't get why Wojo gets such a pass for his first 4 years, and others have demonstrated that they can turn programs around in 1 year. It baffles me.

Here, read this:

https://painttouches.com/2018/02/19/a-brief-history-of-the-modern-college-basketball-rebuild/

It will answer a lot of your questions.

[nyg]

For next season? Assuming no major additions or defections: Top 4 in conference. Team that flirts with the top 25 all season. Somewhere between a 4-8 seed in the NCAAs. Year after that? Even better. Legitimate Final Four contender (but there's a lot of time between now and then).

Look at the Big East standings to the left. Two elite teams at the top and then 4 teams at 9-7. We're sitting just below them at 7-9. It seems like we're just a cut below those 4 this season. Here's what is going to happen to those teams in the offseason:

Butler: Graduate All Big East Kelan Martin and starting center Tyler Wideman. Brings in one recruit rated #378 by 247 Composite. Brings in a midseason transfer from Duke (only appeared in 2 games) who was a top 75 type player. Trend?: Down

Creighton: Graduates All Big East First team Markus Foster, starting big Toby Hegner, and backup big Manny Suarez. May also lose all Big East Khyri Thomas to draft (currently projects as a late first rounder). Brings in a solid recruiting class with three 4 star players (but none in the top 100). Also brings in a transfer who averaged 5 points for New Mexico last season. Krampelj also returns from injury but who knows how he'll be after his second ACL tear. Trend?: Neutral (if Thomas stays) Down (if Thomas goes)

Providence: Graduates All Big East players Kyron Cartwright and Rodney Bullock as well as starting wing Jalen Lindsey. Bring in a great recruiting class with two top 50 players (#42, #44) and two 3 stars. May get Emmitt Holt back from injury. Trend?: Down

Seton Hall: Graduates All Big East Player Angel Delgado and starters Khadeen Carrington, Desi Rodriguez, and Ish Sanogo. Brings in two 3 stars rated in the 200s. Also brings in a solid transfer from Syracuse and a high scoring transfer from Sacred Heart. Trend? Down

Compare that to:

Marquette: Graduates Andrew Rowsey, a big loss for sure (though a net positive just on defense). Brings in a solid transfer from Nebraska, a top 50 freshman, a 21 year old freshman who was a top 75 player, and brings back a 3 star project from redshirt. Trend?: Up.

A lot still needs to happen between this season and next season, but as of now, things are looking very good for us.

And:
Besides that tier

Xavier loses Blueitt, Macura, Kanter, O’Mara.  Big down

St. John’s loses LoVett, Ahmed and maybe Ponds.  They do get South Carolina big man Keita.

[muguru]

The tiring thing about WW & muguru and the others who come out of the woodwork after a loss is it's so black and white with them. You must agree with them that Wojo needs to be fired today. Don't agree with this? Well you must be a "slurper" or want Wojo retained for time immemorial regardless of record. sigh. My guess is those of us that want to give Wojo more time are at different points on the spectrum and I doubt any of us are much beyond 2 more years for valid reasons that TAMU tends to set forth in a more cogent manner than I ever could. But I guess it is simply easier to turn to insults. That's the type of stuff that makes the Board unreadable at times.

TAMU must get tired of having to retype his thoughts on this over and over and over again.

I don't care who agrees with me, we all have our opinions on the matter. I'm just tired of the losing, and those of you that have the patience for that kind of thing...kudos to you. I just don't. Never will have it..been too competitive my whole life to ever be comfortable with losing.