Wilmington, NC cops fired

[jesmu84]

https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2020/06/24/fired-wilmington-cop-we-are-just-going-to-go-out-and-start-slaughtering-them-f-ni-i-cant-wait-god-i-cant-wait-free-read/?fbclid=IwAR2rQ5D5Fyq6qgTRpdU6clh8a_7iOY_AUDe76SvfMAxywUnUPZVnoGzVVgM

[MU82]

Stop it. It's only a few bad apples.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

According to the summary, “Moore began telling Piner about an arrest he had made at work the day before. During that conversation, Moore refers to the female as a ‘negro’ and a ‘ni—-‘ on multiple occasions.”

He also referred to a magistrate judge, who is also black, as a ‘unnatural carnal knowledgeing negro magistrate.’

“At one point, Moore states, ‘she needed a bullet in her head right then and move on. Let’s move the body out of the way and keep going.’ Piner responds, ‘That’s what I have been trying to tell you,'” according to the documents.

After more derogatory comments about the arrestee and the magistrate, the conversation takes an even bleaker turn, as the two officers discuss an upcoming ‘civil war.’

“Piner tells Moore later in the conversation that he feels a civil war is coming and he is ‘ready.’ Piner advised he is going to buy a new assault rifle in the next couple of weeks. A short time later Officer Piner began to discuss society being close to ‘martial law’ and soon ‘we are just gonna go out and start slaughtering them unnatural carnal knowledgeing ni—–. I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.’ Moore responded that he would not do that. Piner stated, ‘I am ready.'” according to the summary.

“Officer Piner then explained to Cpl. Moore that he felt society needed a civil war to ‘wipe ’em off the unnatural carnal knowledgeing map. That’ll put ’em back about four or five generations.'”

Most police are good and law abiding civil servants who want to help their communities. Most times when an officer discharges his/her weapon, it is necessary and not racially motivated in the slightest. But there is absolutely a small but not insignificant population of police officers who are terrible human beings and many of those terrible human beings are terrible because they are racist. You can find terrible individuals and racists in any line of work but those who have the honor of defending our communities and enforcing our laws should be held to a higher standard than other professions. I applaud the good police officers in Wilmington PD who reported this, investigated this, and held these officers accountable. It would have been very easy for that accidental dash cam footage to disappear behind the Blue Wall. Transparency and accountability can only help.

[MU82]

Most police are good and law abiding civil servants who want to help their communities. Most times when an officer discharges his/her weapon, it is necessary and not racially motivated in the slightest. But there is absolutely a small but not insignificant population of police officers who are terrible human beings and many of those terrible human beings are terrible because they are racist. You can find terrible individuals and racists in any line of work but those who have the honor of defending our communities and enforcing our laws should be held to a higher standard than other professions. I applaud the good police officers in Wilmington PD who reported this, investigated this, and held these officers accountable. It would have been very easy for that accidental dash cam footage to disappear behind the Blue Wall. Transparency and accountability can only help.

Perfect post.

It is more than a few bad apples, but far less than entire squads or anything like that.

And it is always bad when people Americans need to be able to trust most -- cops, educators, priests and other religious leaders, judges, the president, etc -- violate that trust.

When a plumber or dressmaker or NBA player or yacht salesman does something bad, it sucks. But when somebody whose very job is to protect and serve goes out of his or her way to do evil to those he or she is supposed to protect and serve ... yes, it is far worse.

[jficke13]

Stop it. It's only a few bad apples.

spoils the bunch.

[tower912]

On my department, it is pounded into our heads from day 1 that we are role models.   Nobody cares if a plumber, CPA, or dentist gets busted for a DUI.   But it is a guarantee that our profession will be in the headline if we were to get into a DUI accident with injuries.   

As times have evolved, we also work under the assumption that any action we make in public will be filmed, every public conversation listened in on.   

Dumb to think a conversation like this would be kept private.   Dumber to have it in the first place.

[Galway Eagle]

A third was fired. Found one article where the guy that made the vast majority of the remarks altered to blame it on the stress of the recent protests and that he was worried for his family and reached a breaking point. Stating it's not who he is.

IMO that's some graphic racist language and definitely who he is What does it take for someone caught to actually look in the mirror and say "woah maybe that is who I am?"

[Hards Alumni]

A third was fired. Found one article where the guy that made the vast majority of the remarks altered to blame it on the stress of the recent protests and that he was worried for his family and reached a breaking point. Stating it's not who he is.

IMO that's some graphic racist language and definitely who he is What does it take for someone caught to actually look in the mirror and say "woah maybe that is who I am?"

My guess is he knows that is who he is, but he is hoping that he can excuse himself out of the situation.  He is afraid of the consequences of his actions.

[shoothoops]

Most police are good and law abiding civil servants who want to help their communities. Most times when an officer discharges his/her weapon, it is necessary and not racially motivated in the slightest. But there is absolutely a small but not insignificant population of police officers who are terrible human beings and many of those terrible human beings are terrible because they are racist. You can find terrible individuals and racists in any line of work but those who have the honor of defending our communities and enforcing our laws should be held to a higher standard than other professions. I applaud the good police officers in Wilmington PD who reported this, investigated this, and held these officers accountable. It would have been very easy for that accidental dash cam footage to disappear behind the Blue Wall. Transparency and accountability can only help.

"Most" is a bit strong for me based on my life experience, the life experience of others I know, as well as other info over time. I am more comfortable with "some" perhaps even many in individual situations....I would say the same for other professions as well, Doctors, Nurses, EMT, Military, Business, Eucation, etc...

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Anecdotal story.  I have a family member in the military and he said that it is alarming how many people with "disturbing" racial views are planning on going into law enforcement when they are discharged. 

[tower912]

An interesting defense.   We have had discussions elsewhere regarding PTSD.  If he has documentation from an EAP that he had sought help, can he and his attorney make a strong enough case that he either gets his job back or gets paid?   

[Babybluejeans]

It’s far more than a few. The vetting process for police in many places is broken in the first instance. But then on top of that, the training modules now reflect a military operation and the offices are cloaked in immunity. It’s a recipe for disaster and we’re seeing it play out in real time. What went down in Atlanta with Mr. Brooks—that’s not what a vetted and properly trained police force does. And not what people who appreciate consequences do...yet they’re the ones tasked with just that.

The only solution in many places is the solution folks in MPLS have reached — scrap it and start over. In many cases, implementing the needed major alterations to the hiring and training apparatus is impossible.

[Pakuni]

It’s far more than a few. The vetting process for police in many places is broken in the first instance. But then on top of that, the training modules now reflect a military operation and the offices are cloaked in immunity. It’s a recipe for disaster and we’re seeing it play out in real time. What went down in Atlanta with Mr. Brooks—that’s not what a vetted and properly trained police force does. And not what people who appreciate consequences do...yet they’re the ones tasked with just that.

The only solution in many places is the solution folks in MPLS have reached — scrap it and start over. In many cases, implementing the needed major alterations to the hiring and training apparatus is impossible.

The bolded is a key point. Police in many places have become quasi-military operations, from the training to the equipment to the tactics to where officers come from in the first place. A cop is more than three times as likely to have served in the military than the general population.
A study of one large department (Dallas) a few years back found that cops who were deployed in the military were three times as likely to fire their weapon on duty than those who weren't. In separate studies, officers in Boston and Miami with military experience were more likely to have a use-of-force complaint filed against them. And one-third of the 35 fatal police shootings in Albuquerque from January 2010 to April 2014 involved cops who were military veterans.

None of this is to suggest that former military personnel shouldn't be cops, or are bad cops, but we need to do a better job of separating those people from their military experiences and training before we put them on the streets as cops. Instead, it seems we're embracing the militarization of law enforcement.
The result seems to be a segment of law enforcement that views the people they serve less as fellow citizens and more like the populace of an occupied foreign nation.

[Billy Hoyle]

Anecdotal story.  I have a family member in the military and he said that it is alarming how many people with "disturbing" racial views are planning on going into law enforcement when they are discharged.

This has been a problem that was identified over 14 years ago. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement

Add in the emphasis on "law and order," lack of background investigations on officers entering the force, the increased militarization of equipment, and de-emphasis on de-escalation and it's a formula for racism and chaos.

In the 2006 bulletin, the FBI detailed the threat of white nationalists and skinheads infiltrating police in order to disrupt investigations against fellow members and recruit other supremacists. The bulletin was released during a period of scandal for many law enforcement agencies throughout the country, including a neo-Nazi gang formed by members of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department who harassed black and Latino communities. Similar investigations revealed officers and entire agencies with hate group ties in Illinois, Ohio and Texas.

I refuse to run with the "All Cops Are Bastards" (ACAB) stuff (I have a buddy who is a priest who was once a cop, hardly a "bastard") but the actions of too many don't help dispel that mindset.

[Babybluejeans]

The result seems to be a segment of law enforcement that views the people they serve less as fellow citizens and more like the populace of an occupied foreign nation.

On the nose.

[Lennys Tap]

Perfect post.

It is more than a few bad apples, but far less than entire squads or anything like that.

And it is always bad when people Americans need to be able to trust most -- cops, educators, priests and other religious leaders, judges, the president, etc -- violate that trust.

When a plumber or dressmaker or NBA player or yacht salesman does something bad, it sucks. But when somebody whose very job is to protect and serve goes out of his or her way to do evil to those he or she is supposed to protect and serve ... yes, it is far worse.

Earth to Mike, Earth to Mike....

Cops, educators, priests, presidents - even journalists - are people, no different, no better, no worse, no smarter, no dumber, no more honest or dishonest than plumbers, dressmakers or NBA players. Holding them to different standards is not only naive beyond belief - it’s a form of bigotry.

We put cops in positions of “trust” not because they’re “better” than others. We do it because we have to put somebody (who’s willing to live with the danger, the second guessing and even the hatred that they incur) on the front line.

You can’t not get all of this, so my only conclusion is you put cops on phony pedestals so they’re even easier to knock down. It’s not fair.

[Hards Alumni]

Earth to Mike, Earth to Mike....

Cops, educators, priests, presidents - even journalists - are people, no different, no better, no worse, no smarter, no dumber, no more honest or dishonest than plumbers, dressmakers or NBA players. Holding them to different standards is not only naive beyond belief - it’s a form of bigotry.

We put cops in positions of “trust” not because they’re “better” than others. We do it because we have to put somebody (who’s willing to live with the danger, the second guessing and even the hatred that they incur) on the front line.

You can’t not get all of this, so my only conclusion is you put cops on phony pedestals so they’re even easier to knock down. It’s not fair.

If a plumber lies, a person doesn't go to jail.   If a cop lies, someone can be locked up for the rest of their life.
If a priest shoots someone, they go to jail.  If a cop shoots someone, they get put on leave and then transferred or reinstated.

Police literally hold people's lives in their hands, so they SHOULD be held to the highest standard.  We give police power, and with great power comes great responsibility (spiderman!).  Currently, the police have shown themselves to not be trustworthy enough to have that power.  So there needs to be some reformation and rehabilitation.  Fix the problem instead of saying, "A few bad apples!", because the second half of the saying says, "ruins the bunch".

[MU82]

Earth to Mike, Earth to Mike....

Cops, educators, priests, presidents - even journalists - are people, no different, no better, no worse, no smarter, no dumber, no more honest or dishonest than plumbers, dressmakers or NBA players. Holding them to different standards is not only naive beyond belief - it’s a form of bigotry.

We put cops in positions of “trust” not because they’re “better” than others. We do it because we have to put somebody (who’s willing to live with the danger, the second guessing and even the hatred that they incur) on the front line.

You can’t not get all of this, so my only conclusion is you put cops on phony pedestals so they’re even easier to knock down. It’s not fair.

I don't put cops on a "pedestal." I expect them to do the job they took an oath to do. If the guy who installed my hot-water heater did it wrong, I'd have water in my garage and I'd be pissed. If a cop who is supposed to protect and serve me shoots me for doing nothing wrong, I'm dead.

It is absolutely worse that somebody in a position of authority, holding a deadly weapon, is a racist than if my next door neighbor is a racist.

You can't not get all of that.

And BTW, I like your inclusion of journalists, and I agree. Journalists should be held to a higher standard, and it pisses me off when one does something dishonest or stupid. And it happens far too often now that there is so much pressure to get stories 10 seconds before everybody else. But again, most of the time a journalist failing to do his or her job doesn't lead to somebody dying. And a racist journalist usually isn't carrying a weapon.

[Pakuni]

Earth to Mike, Earth to Mike....

Cops, educators, priests, presidents - even journalists - are people, no different, no better, no worse, no smarter, no dumber, no more honest or dishonest than plumbers, dressmakers or NBA players. Holding them to different standards is not only naive beyond belief - it’s a form of bigotry.

If we can't hold cops to higher standards, then we really ought to defund the police. Why spend all the time, money and effort recruiting, training and equipping police, only to hold them to the same expectations as car salesmen and the bagger at your local Kroger?

Fact is, we as a society surrender to police a great deal of power and authority. We give them the authority to detain citizens against their will. We allow them to search our property. We have to follow their orders. We deprive people of their freedom based on police officers' words. We give them guns, body armor and vehicles. We even let them kill people legally. And, unlike all the other professions you mention, we give them immunity when they screw up.

Saying we ought to give police all this power but hold them to the same standards we hold our plumbers or dressmakers seems crazy. We must hold certain people to higher standards, and cops must be at the top of that list.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

And I love the "it's a form of bigotry" comment.  That is grade A comedy right there.

[Spotcheck Billy]

If the guy who installed my hot-water heater did it wrong, I'd have water in my garage and I'd be pissed.

I'm sorry but this is a pet peeve of mine. Isn't it a water heater not a hot water heater?  Why do you heat hot water?

[Jockey]

Earth to Mike, Earth to Mike....

Cops, educators, priests, presidents - even journalists - are people, no different, no better, no worse, no smarter, no dumber, no more honest or dishonest than plumbers, dressmakers or NBA players. Holding them to different standards is not only naive beyond belief - it’s a form of bigotry.

So, Trump is no worse, no dumber, and no more dishonest than past president's - including some of the greatest men in US history?

My God, Lenny, what have you been smoking lately? Between this comment and your remarks regarding the noose in Wallace's garage, I worry for you. Stay in the shallow end of the pool for a while, please.

[Billy Hoyle]

I'm sorry but this is a pet peeve of mine. Isn't it a water heater not a hot water heater?  Why do you heat hot water?

It's like "ATM Machine" and "PIN number."

I have always loved Carlin talking about use of "pre" (pre-heating an oven. (There are only two states of an oven, heated or unheated") and getting "on" the plane. "F you, I'm getting IN the plane."

[Pakuni]

It's like "ATM Machine" and "PIN number."

I have always loved Carlin talking about use of "pre" (pre-heating an oven. (There are only two states of an oven, heated or unheated") and getting "on" the plane. "F you, I'm getting IN the plane."

"Could you tell the jury in your own words ..."
"You have your own words? I use the same words everyone else is using."

[Lennys Tap]

If we can't hold cops to higher standards, then we really ought to defund the police. Why spend all the time, money and effort recruiting, training and equipping police, only to hold them to the same expectations as car salesmen and the bagger at your local Kroger?

Fact is, we as a society surrender to police a great deal of power and authority. We give them the authority to detain citizens against their will. We allow them to search our property. We have to follow their orders. We deprive people of their freedom based on police officers' words. We give them guns, body armor and vehicles. We even let them kill people legally. And, unlike all the other professions you mention, we give them immunity when they screw up.

Saying we ought to give police all this power but hold them to the same standards we hold our plumbers or dressmakers seems crazy. We must hold certain people to higher standards, and cops must be at the top of that list.

I’ll readily concede that there are some people weeded out in the recruiting process. And of course cops should be better than the average person in the areas where they have specific training.

We do give them a lot of power - not because we want to but because we have to give it to somebody if we want an ordered society. But it’s a Sophie’s choice. Anyone who is comfortable ceding all that power to people who seek it should have their head examined. If we’re smart, we’re not “let down” when guys who joined the force in part because they like to bully people actually bully people. Instead, we’re on the lookout. And when a guy has 5 or 10 or 20 complaints against him for using excessive force we do something about it.

Cops are people. They are not immune from bias, incompetence, bullying (in my experience they’re well above the national average here). As with most professions, most cops are hard working and honest. But they’re a reflection of society, not on some level above the fray.

[Lennys Tap]

So, Trump is no worse, no dumber, and no more dishonest than past president's - including some of the greatest men in US history?

My God, Lenny, what have you been smoking lately? Between this comment and your remarks regarding the noose in Wallace's garage, I worry for you. Stay in the shallow end of the pool for a while, please.

C’mon Jockey - you’re proving my point - cops are INDIVIDUALS, most good, some bad, a reflection of society, not on a pedestal above it. Lots of presidents (Trump certainly included) prove that presidents don’t belong on that pedestal either.

IOW, jerks in every professions. Expecting less is naive and unrealistic.

[Lennys Tap]

And I love the "it's a form of bigotry" comment.  That is grade A comedy right there.

Glad I gave you a chuckle, Fluff. Of course, it doesn’t make it not true.

[wadesworld]

Earth to Mike, Earth to Mike....

Cops, educators, priests, presidents - even journalists - are people, no different, no better, no worse, no smarter, no dumber, no more honest or dishonest than plumbers, dressmakers or NBA players. Holding them to different standards is not only naive beyond belief - it’s a form of bigotry.

We put cops in positions of “trust” not because they’re “better” than others. We do it because we have to put somebody (who’s willing to live with the danger, the second guessing and even the hatred that they incur) on the front line.

You can’t not get all of this, so my only conclusion is you put cops on phony pedestals so they’re even easier to knock down. It’s not fair.

Totally missed the point.

[Pakuni]

Cops are people. They are not immune from bias, incompetence, bullying (in my experience they’re well above the national average here). As with most professions, most cops are hard working and honest. But they’re a reflection of society, not on some level above the fray.

If this had been your point, I'd agree wholeheartedly.
But just because cops are human and subject to the same faults as all other humans doesn't mean we can't, or shouldn't, hold them to higher standards. We can and should and must. If we can't hold cops to a higher standard than a criminal, then there's no reason to have cops.
And every good cop would agree, by the way.


Oh, and I very much disagree with you about wanting to give others power. There are lots of people who fu--ing love the idea of surrendering power to a "strong" leader. It's how authoritarian governments have risen throughout history. It's why cults exist. It's a selling point for many of 45's supporters.

[Lennys Tap]

If this had been your point, I'd agree wholeheartedly.
But just because cops are human and subject to the same faults as all other humans doesn't mean we can't, or shouldn't, hold them to higher standards. We can and should and must. If we can't hold cops to a higher standard than a criminal, then there's no reason to have cops.
And every good cop would agree, by the way.


Oh, and I very much disagree with you about wanting to give others power. There are lots of people who fu--ing love the idea of surrendering power to a "strong" leader. It's how authoritarian governments have risen throughout history. It's why cults exist. It's a selling point for many of 45's supporters.

Sorry if I was less than articulate. I just find it strange when people are surprised, angered, etc., when a police force mirrors society. Training, selectivity, etc. can mitigate but not change that.

I think all citizens are supposed to be held to the same standards. Once a cop (or anyone else) breaks that social contract he or she becomes a criminal. We no longer have the same standards for him or her.

In paragraph 2, I see your point. Of course there are always individuals for whom life is too much, who are attracted to a “strongman” or a cult. Until recently, I’ve never worried about that in the USA - thought the middle was strong enough to hold. Thought that those of us who gave awesome power to our institutions realized a functioning society was a delicate balance and would try to be good, somewhat non partisan watchdogs of said institutions. I’m not encouraged.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Until recently, I’ve never worried about that in the USA - thought the middle was strong enough to hold. That those of us who gave awesome power to our institutions realized a functioning society was a delicate balance and would try to be good, somewhat non partisan watchdogs of said institutions. I’m not encouraged.

I feel similarly...It sure feels like the accountability of our institutions are gone/not trustworthy (police, judiciary, CDC, etc).  These are the things that hold us together and we are actively eroding them.