IU fan here... Did Crean ever develop big men?

[CrimsonNCrean]

Hello again Marquette fans.... 

I have question for those of you that remember the Tommy Clap Clap days...

Seriously tho, did Crean ever utilize any type of post game while he coached Marq?  He has been at IU 3 years now and our bigs have gotten worse.   But what is more disturbing to many of us IU fans is the fact that he does not even attempt to throw the ball down low.....   at all.   IU played Penn St. in the Big Ten tourney and not one time did an IU player post up and recieve an entry pass.

Every one was roaming the 3 point line, with the occasional "jog" through the lane.

Did Crean ever post anyone up?

IU fans are thinking Cody Zeller will save IU's interior game next year, but I am worried he will be a C playing at the top of the key and shooting 3's.   

This man is so frustrating...    he won't try to change his O to adapt to the talent he has.   His dribble drive or "one on one, fire a 3 when the shot clock is down" is a lazy man's excuse of an offense for a coach who ...........   can't coach.

In his pressers after games he identifies the issues the team has and then the next game out lets the team do the exact same crap,  every game ......      over and over and over and over....

Did this man ever develop any of his bigs at MU?  Did he ever use them?

Is there hope for Hoosier fans or are we doomed for the next 7 years?


OK, I'm done rambling...   Good Luck Marq. against X....   

[jesmu84]

uh oh...

CrimsonNCrean, we do appreciate you coming on and looking for answers to reasonable questions. But expect this thread to QUICKLY descend into arguing/shouting/insulting

[Hamostradamus]

Quite simply, and before this thread devolves, yes, you are screwed. Barring a miracle, you will live and die with perimeter play.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Based on all your posts here, you should be able to answer that..."IU fan"


http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;u=3230;sa=showPosts

[4everwarriors]

You're kidding, right? He can't even spell big men, let alone develop them. Now, if you want to talk deflections, hell, TC's your self-promoting dude. Anyway that cs'er is your problem now. Over here, we're gettin' ready to celebrate the 3rd annual FFCD*


*--freedom from Crean day

[Warriors10]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdJZhdi_-Tc

[TallTitan34]

This post has to be fake because its so perfect.

[Blackhat]

He can coach, he'll get you some good wins eventually.    He paid the right people and is getting the recruits now.  He'll win with those recruits.   Maybe not to the level IU fans want but he'll win.


To be fair to Crean, he only had one or two bigs rated about as high as Zeller.....in Scott Merritt and Robert Jackson.   Jackson and Merritt got fed from time to time.  The last 5 years of his tenure he never fed the post, probably lack of talent issue more than not wanting to.   Crean likes drawing up his plays, why feed the post when you can dribble around and weave and set numerous scripted picks.  As far as Zeller, relying on a freshman big is hazardous imo.   Good luck to you guys in the future, TC will turn it around from where you are now.  How can he not though?

[SERocks]

You know, this may not be a fair comparison since IU was really starting over when Crean got there, but in a sense so was MU when you look back three years.  Crean left the cupboard bare here (as far as our future two and three years out went) and somehow Buzz was able to bring in enough players that we are still competitive and the future looks bright.  Three years into it at IU and yes, they are better off than they were, but not a huge amount.  Seems interesting to me. 

Someone else said perimeter play and they were right.  That is what you are up against.  Good Luck!

SERocks

[ChicosBailBonds]

This post has to be fake because its so perfect.

Read his last 50 posts and it will answer your question.

[bilsu]

Tom Crean's offense consists of guards dominating the ball with the dribble. The centers he has had were hidden to the side of the basket on offense basically standing out of bounds. Every once and awhile Robert Jackson and Ousman Barro would get the ball dump off to them by a guard, if the other team forgot about MU's center. No evidence that Crean ever had the idea of utilizing the center in his dribble offense. Now MU never really had a center that could shoot outside of 5 feet, so there might be some hope for Indiana. Zeller would be a freshmen next year and it oftens takes a bigman a year to develope to play in a major conference. You probably have one bad year coming.

[tower912]

In his 9 years, the only time he really utilized the post was the Final 4 year with Robert Jackson.   Jackson came here after 3 years down south because of a rift with his coach there and because he wanted to finish his eligibility near home.   So, for one year, we had a former second team (IIRC) SEC center in the post and we fed him.   To a lesser extent, we attempted the same thing with Merritt, but injuries and an addiction to a spin move from the wide post or elbow limited his effectiveness.    Chris Grimm, Ousmane Barro, Dwight Burke, Kinsella, Lott, Amo....none of them were ever what you would call successful on the block.    Zeller has more ability than all of them, so perhaps he will start the pendulum in the other direction.  

[CrimsonNCrean]

Crean's teams have gotten worse every year as the year goes on.   And our PG Hulls is the only player on the team to show real development.  

I always thought Crean's Marq. teams played hard but his IU teams are SOFT, and have quit with about 10 games remaining in the season ....   for the last 3 in a row.

I do not know what to think, how does this man expect to win in the Big Ten with NO post game?  It won't happen.

And all these lovely recruits coming in.....    Zeller is a stud in 11, but in 12 he has Perea and Jurkin...   two big men who are .....   "PROJECTS"      It seems all he is recruiting is wings.  

The time for excuses is long over with..

Sigh

[tower912]

Most bigs are projects.   That isn't a problem.   Give them a couple of years and they will be fine.   He struggled to land projects here.   

[CrimsonNCrean]

In his 9 years, the only time he really utilized the post was the Final 4 year with Robert Jackson.   Jackson came here after 3 years down south because of a rift with his coach there and because he wanted to finish his eligibility near home.   So, for one year, we had a former second team (IIRC) SEC center in the post and we fed him.   To a lesser extent, we attempted the same thing with Merritt, but injuries and an addiction to a spin move from the wide post or elbow limited his effectiveness.    Chris Grimm, Ousmane Barro, Dwight Burke, Kinsella, Lott, Amo....none of them were ever what you would call successful on the block.    Zeller has more ability than all of them, so perhaps he will start the pendulum in the other direction.  

This is what I was looking for ....   at least he is willing to utilize a center if he has an adequate one.  I guess.

[rocky_warrior]

Read his last 50 posts and it will answer your question.

Despite your speculation (gasp!) that this is not an IU fan - he does hail from Indianapolis, and is not one of our other members trying to play an IU fan.  

And this, one of his first posts, certainly sounds like an IU fan.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=14925.msg138705#msg138705

But, I know that concept is hard for you to grasp.  IU fans being frustrated with crean...

Nonetheless...this is superbar material...

[CrimsonNCrean]

ha..   I'm no sock puppet..

I'm an IU man, I occasionally come here to vent because the Hoosier boards are just sickening with spiked Kool Aid.   And honestly this year Crean has totally abandoned the inside game.   And it is scaring me a bit.   I am really wondering if he knows what he is doing.

[rocky_warrior]

I always thought Crean's Marq. teams played hard but his IU teams are SOFT, and have quit with about 10 games remaining in the season ....   for the last 3 in a row.

For whatever reason, Crean's teams frequently seemed to fade down the stretch (there are exceptions of course).  I don't think they ever quit on him, but starting early to mid February, they seemed to start playing worse than earlier in the season.  Or perhaps, they just rarely improved from that point, whereas other coaches did improve.  

Like I said I don't know the reason.  It didn't seem like quitting, but perhaps it's all circumstantial.

[CrimsonNCrean]

For whatever reason, Crean's teams frequently seemed to fade down the stretch (there are exceptions of course).  I don't think they ever quit on him, but starting early to mid February, they seemed to start playing worse than earlier in the season.  Or perhaps, they just rarely improved from that point, whereas other coaches did improve.  

Like I said I don't know the reason.  It didn't seem like quitting, but perhaps it's all circumstantial.

I don't like hearing that either...  Man, all I know is dude has got to step it up next year or his seat is going to be hotter than hell.

In TC's 3rd season here at IU the Hoosiers were 1-7 against ........    gulp...   Northwestern, Penn St, and Iowa..   

This will not do....

[NersEllenson]

Read his last 50 posts and it will answer your question.

I think more telling are to read his first ever posts on Scoop...he was a big fan of Tom Crean initially.  Why put IU fan in quotes?? Do you not believe he's a real IU fan?  From reading his posts he most definitely seems to be an IU fan since Day 1 here.  Is it not understandable that he's frustrated given the 3-15 finish in Year 3?  I believe I saw in his post history a comment where you predicted a 7th or 8th place finish in the Big 10 this year for IU..so even by your standards, this year was a debacle, correct?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Crean is an assh*le. The sooner you realize it, the better. Even if Indiana succeeds, you'll hold your nose because you'll come to realize you're rooting against him because he's such an unbelievable phony. He's literally one of the most loathesome people in sports.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Despite your speculation (gasp!) that this is not an IU fan - he does hail from Indianapolis, and is not one of our other members trying to play an IU fan.  

And this, one of his first posts, certainly sounds like an IU fan.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=14925.msg138705#msg138705

But, I know that concept is hard for you to grasp.  IU fans being frustrated with crean...

Nonetheless...this is superbar material...

You obviously need Teal apparently.  I put it in quotes and next time will put in Teal to be clear.  When I or others here question Buzz, we're labeled as haters and non-MU Fans.  So I did the same thing to this guy and called him an "IU Fan", which of course you then get all up in arms because it's ok for IU fans to be frustrated by Crean (apparently not ok for MU fans to be frustrated by Buzz).....LOL.  Exactly as I expected.

My point was the greater one that he knew the answer to the question as he's posted here enough before with the same type of vent most of the time.  He's here to cause trouble and nothing more. 

I am glad he's from Indy or wherever, as if geography would ever make a difference on fandom.  I suspect you're going to tell me next that Canadian Dimes is an IU fan because he lives in the Plymouth, Indiana area...geography has nothing to do with it.

And yes, we all know how "loathesome" Crean is....he's a jerk, I know first hand.  Yet, for some reason people continue to work for him, continue to sign letters of intent.  There are lots of loathesome people out there in the world, unfortunately.  Many of my counterparts at IU said that about Knight...I certainly didn't enjoy as a Grad Assistant having to go into the basketball offices at Assembly Hall because he could by an absolute tyrant.  That's life, some people are pricks and some aren't.  

[rocky_warrior]

You really think he registered in 2009 with several post thinking many here were crazy for thinking IU made a mistake with Crean, just so that 2 years later, he could come back and "cause trouble and nothing more".  That ridiculous!  He has been posting on and off here for 2 years, with initially nothing but good things to say for Crean.  I don't think he's sick and twisted enough to just do it to raise hell around here.

Chicos - take the TC goggles off!  I don't think you hate MU or Buzz, but I do think you have a little too much love for Crean, and hold double standards for Buzz and Crean.  And I think you're getting sick and twisted to the point that you try to pretend this guy couldn't possibly be an IU fan!

Listen, I've verified his location, his posts speak for themselves.

[ChicosBailBonds]

ha..   I'm no sock puppet..

I'm an IU man, I occasionally come here to vent because the Hoosier boards are just sickening with spiked Kool Aid.   And honestly this year Crean has totally abandoned the inside game.   And it is scaring me a bit.   I am really wondering if he knows what he is doing.

So you're saying you're in the "vast minority" then among the IU faithful?      Weird, because I read here from some MU fans who know basically NOTHING about IU that he was on his way out and the vast majority weren't backing him.  Weird that MU fans got that wrong.  Odd.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You really think he registered in 2009 with several post thinking many here were crazy for thinking IU made a mistake with Crean, just so that 2 years later, he could come back and "cause trouble and nothing more".  That ridiculous!  He has been posting on and off here for 2 years, with initially nothing but good things to say for Crean.  I don't think he's sick and twisted enough to just do it to raise hell around here.

Chicos - take the TC goggles off!  I don't think you hate MU or Buzz, but I do think you have a little too much love for Crean, and hold double standards for Buzz and Crean.  And I think you're getting sick and twisted to the point that you try to pretend this guy couldn't possibly be an IU fan!

Listen, I've verified his location, his posts speak for themselves.

I think you have a little too much love for Buzz and hold amazing double standards.   We can play this game all day if you wish.

I just enjoy showing the hypocrisy of it all.   I question a IU FAN and you guys come to his defense because he has to balls to question TC.  I question Buzz at times (so do others), and we don't have balls but we hate Buzz.  Is there a bigger double standard?  Please