Coach K weighs in on Transfers.....no exceptions

[NavinRJohnson]

NCAA says let's really care for these kids - and put their academic well being at the forefront.

Dude, seriously, I just wet my pants. Please tell me that was in the same vein as your 'Vikings consensus' posts. If not, that one belongs in the MUScoop Hall of Fame of ridiculous posts.

[NavinRJohnson]

Universities made it a penalty for their coach to leave by putting a buyout in the contract.  It was intended to be punitive in nature.  On the otherhand, when an athlete leaves a University the University gets nothing in return.  Seems to favor the athlete (see how we can flip these things if we want to.)

Really? The University who encourages a weak player to transfer (often in the players best interest, but mostly in the schools best interest to avoid clogging a scholarship with a kid who cant play) to a lower tier school doesn't immediately get that scholarship back? Meanwhile they player who is shown the writing on the wall has to sit out a year.
 
So the new school is punished by having to pay a substantial buyout.

I'm sorry, who is forcing them to pay that buyout, exactly? Sure seems like a punishment of their own choosing, by hiring that coach. Stupid argument.

By most accounts the kid in question here is unlikely to ever be a professional athlete.  Instead of complaining about how unfair his contract is.  Maybe he should be thinking about the fact that he now has 5-years of free education to pursue a Masters degree and set him up for life.

That's great, but maybe that's not what he wants to do. Very easy for some dude sitting in front of a keyboard the suburbs to say. Everyone here has been around college sports long enough to know that very few of these guys are going to college to be students, they're going to play ball. They know it, their coaches know it, schools know it. Doesn't mean they can't  benefit from the education they receive, but I just wish people would start calling it what it is, and quit trying to prop up and rationalize this whole amateurism, student athlete sham, because it makes them feel a little less guilty.

[mu03eng]

It is easy to pick one side or the other.  In reality there are consequences and benefits for all parties involved.  One is not being treated more or less fairly than the other.  It all just depends on an individuals perspective of the situation.  I think more often than not, if you think the NCAA is the big bad wolf, everything they do is wrong and unfair to the athlete.  The reality is these kids are getting a really good deal.  They can make the best of it if they chose. 

I'd like to know what profession you can spend 5 years in college getting an undergrad and masters without any practical knowledge and be set for life.  Do you realize how hard it is to get an undergrad and master in 5 years just doing school let alone a high caliber athlete? (this is one of many reasons why Lockett is an amazing dude)

Everyone says the players are compensated for via free education, have you ever played at a collegiant level, do you have any idea how tough it is to be at the top of your game and still be successful in the classroom?  Yes these players get a lot of support, but they need it just to keep their heads above water.  How does one go out and get an internship or do other career enhancing activities while playing D1 ball?  Yes the players are getting a decent deal, but lets not act like we're doing them any favors or we have their best interests at heart...we don't.

[TJ]

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it will hurt App State either.  I don't get why it is so devastating that these kids learn a lesson that signing a contract or a NLI or other obligation is something that is not only enforceable, it should be at its core a follow through on your word.  He signed a letter of intent.  When he hadn't blown up, App State was his best option and we was all good to go there.  Then, all of a sudden he gets better and the school that went after him and committed to him and vice versa is no longer good enough.  Then sit out a year young man.  Next time wait to sign the NLI or don't sign it at all.

There has to be consequences for actions. 

Sounds great... if you can stop the practice of over-signing.  Ask DJ Newbill how enforceable the NLI is.  We should tackle the problem of making the adults and institutions of higher learning "follow through on their word" before we get all high and mighty about the 18 year old kids.

[TJ]

I agree completely. At the end of the year he can transfer.  A University like App State is going to have a difficult time finding a good replacement.  Getting one year of the commitment to allow them to find a replacement is fair.  I also agree with it being a good life lesson.

That sounds great... but at the end of the year the player has to ask to be allowed to transfer and will have restrictions put on his ability to do so by a vindictive coach.  If it were as simple as you have to play here for a year and then you can transfer without issue then it wouldn't be as big of an issue.

[Jay Bee]

Sounds great... if you can stop the practice of over-signing.  Ask DJ Newbill how enforceable the NLI is.  We should tackle the problem of making the adults and institutions of higher learning "follow through on their word" before we get all high and mighty about the 18 year old kids.

That PSA didn't follow through on the requirements under the NLI.

[NavinRJohnson]

And just when you think the NCAA couldn't get any more ridiculous with the arbitrary manner in which they enforce their archaic rules, they give us Josh Smith. While I like the ruling, there are players all over the country who were not afforded the same consideration. Arbitrary and unfair is the only way to describe it. The NCAA and its member organizations, is as heavy handed an organization as exists.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9869585/ncaa-clears-josh-smith-play-georgetown-hoyas

To go back to the original point, just get rid of the stupid red shirt requirement, and eliminate all of this picking and choosing.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And just when you think the NCAA couldn't get any more ridiculous with the arbitrary manner in which they enforce their archaic rules, they give us Josh Smith. While I like the ruling, there are players all over the country who were not afforded the same consideration. Arbitrary and unfair is the only way to describe it. The NCAA and its member organizations, is as heavy handed an organization as exists.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9869585/ncaa-clears-josh-smith-play-georgetown-hoyas

To go back to the original point, just get rid of the stupid red shirt requirement, and eliminate all of this picking and choosing.

I'm confused why he was given the waiver, but I'm not complaining. We need the Big East to be as strong in the non-conference season as possible.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And just when you think the NCAA couldn't get any more ridiculous with the arbitrary manner in which they enforce their archaic rules, they give us Josh Smith. While I like the ruling, there are players all over the country who were not afforded the same consideration. Arbitrary and unfair is the only way to describe it. The NCAA and its member organizations, is as heavy handed an organization as exists.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9869585/ncaa-clears-josh-smith-play-georgetown-hoyas

To go back to the original point, just get rid of the stupid red shirt requirement, and eliminate all of this picking and choosing.

Because all cases are different.  I don't understand your comment that they are not afforded the same consideration.  Each player can apply for a ruling from the NCAA and they do give consideration.  The outcomes are certainly different, but none of us know the background of each case to understand what goes into each consideration.

[Jay Bee]

Because all cases are different.  I don't understand your comment that they are not afforded the same consideration.  Each player can apply for a ruling from the NCAA and they do give consideration.  The outcomes are certainly different, but none of us know the background of each case to understand what goes into each consideration.

This is important to understand. Most ignore it when they spew outrage. Folks are so quick to cry about how awful the NCAA is, but they forget the NCAA is a representation of the member conferences... and most important is they don't know the conversations and arguments made in individual cases.

I would suggest that in many cases if the truth was fully revealed it would be the student-athletes and their current institutions people would take issue with. Many arguments made might seem quite ridiculous, but may be enough to put the NCAA into a position where they feel a waiver is the right thing to do.

There are several waiver cases that I guarantee would provide entertainment (puking) if the arguments were revealed to the public.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Apparently more consideration given.....

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9878078/kentan-facey-uconn-huskies-cleared-ncaa

[NavinRJohnson]

Apparently more consideration given.....

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9878078/kentan-facey-uconn-huskies-cleared-ncaa

How is this anywhere near a similar situation? Oh that's right, it isn't, and thus, completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How is this anywhere near a similar situation? Oh that's right, it isn't, and thus, completely irrelevant to the discussion.

The NCAA considers all cases.  Each case is unique.  Each outcome, thus, unique.  Contrary to your comments yesterday about what is or isn't considered.

[MU82]

All I know is that really smart student-athletes -- who actually are students -- who get their degrees in three years and then go to graduate school at another university while not having to sit out a year to play basketball or football ... yes, those millions upon millions of young men are sure to bring down the entire system!

Close that loophole and save college sports before it's too late!!!!

[Jay Bee]

All I know is that really smart student-athletes -- who actually are students -- who get their degrees in three years and then go to graduate school at another university while not having to sit out a year to play basketball or football ... yes, those millions upon millions of young men are sure to bring down the entire system!

Close that loophole and save college sports before it's too late!!!!

That isn't the norm. Lockett was quite unusual in that regard. Most who utilize the graduate student exception or are granted a waiver using a graduate student (who aren't eligible for the exception) have been at school for more than three years.

BTW, "getting a degree" is not a requirement of the graduate student exception.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Another granted a waiver

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9877415/oregon-ducks-transfer-joseph-young-play-immediately

[NavinRJohnson]

Another not...

http://m.ourmidland.com/mobile/sports/ncaa-jones-can-t-play-this-season-at-nu/article_dc6d0067-ae4d-543f-96f4-2f3352506378.html

Again, if anyone would like to defend the NCAA's 'logic' based on this story, and/or try to paint a picture of any kind of consistency in these rulings, I would enjoy watching the mental contortions you will need through to do so.

[forgetful]

Another not...

http://m.ourmidland.com/mobile/sports/ncaa-jones-can-t-play-this-season-at-nu/article_dc6d0067-ae4d-543f-96f4-2f3352506378.html

Again, if anyone would like to defend the NCAA's 'logic' based on this story, and/or try to paint a picture of any kind of consistency in these rulings, I would enjoy watching the mental contortions you will need through to do so.

I'm not going to defend their inconsistencies, because they do exist.  However this case is a very bad example.  I see no indication that their was a driving need for him to transfer a 2nd time (first from USC to Iowa State and then to NU).  Also, it appears as if the reason to transfer was being academically ineligible for cheating on two different occassions at USC...again hardly a reason for a waiver.

Admittedly, both USC and ISU screwed up in handling the appeals.  He should be given the semester of eligibility back (left with 4) and I think he will.  But needing to transfer because you were caught cheating and want to play right away, should never be a reason for a waiver.

[MU82]

That isn't the norm. Lockett was quite unusual in that regard. Most who utilize the graduate student exception or are granted a waiver using a graduate student (who aren't eligible for the exception) have been at school for more than three years.

BTW, "getting a degree" is not a requirement of the graduate student exception.

Guess I should have used teal.

[Jay Bee]

Another not...

http://m.ourmidland.com/mobile/sports/ncaa-jones-can-t-play-this-season-at-nu/article_dc6d0067-ae4d-543f-96f4-2f3352506378.html

Again, if anyone would like to defend the NCAA's 'logic' based on this story, and/or try to paint a picture of any kind of consistency in these rulings, I would enjoy watching the mental contortions you will need through to do so.

You couldn't have found a worse example. Different divisions, multiple issues caused by the player's decisions (enrollment at schools, practicing with schools, multiple transfers, etc.) no matter whose "bad advice" he listened to.

Adding this example to the conversation is beyond ridiculous.

[ChicosBailBonds]

LOL.  Ok Navin.  Again, what particulars do you know about the case that the NCAA doesn't that leads you to believe in inconsistency?  Each case is heard, each case is given consideration.  None of us here know the details behind each case, but on the surface alone your example shows just how different they are already without even getting into the details of which we know none of them.

[mileskishnish72]

If EVERYONE is really going to be treated equally, shouldn't a coach who leaves before his contract is up have to sit out a year?

[Jay Bee]

If EVERYONE is really going to be treated equally, shouldn't a coach who leaves before his contract is up have to sit out a year?

Some Americans claim to want equality for all. Do you? Should we let 12 year olds drive cars if they pass a test? Should you and I pay the same dollar amount of taxes? How about 11 year olds boozing it up? Sound good?

A coach leaving a contract prior to the stated end date should be "punished" according to the terms of the contract he entered into, whatever they may be. If he doesn't want to deal with them, then don't agree to it.

Same with kids. If they don't want the arrangement offered, don't do it.

[NavinRJohnson]

LOL.  Ok Navin.  Again, what particulars do you know about the case that the NCAA doesn't that leads you to believe in inconsistency?  Each case is heard, each case is given consideration.  None of us here know the details behind each case, but on the surface alone your example shows just how different they are already without even getting into the details of which we know none of them.

Thanks for making my point (and that of Coach K, which started this thread). They make case by case decisions, based on little or any defined criteria. Some have to sit, others do not. Eliminate the stupid 'redshirt year' requirement, and stop with this student athlete/amateurism sham. Of course we all know they won't because it might be bad for business. But hey, keep trying to pretend they do all this in the interest of the players as students, maybe eventually you will actually convince yourselves that's true.