OT: 2021 Coaching Carousel

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I respect your opinion - who would you have above him besides Dennis Gates (who I think personally has made himself the clear #1)? Guessing DeVries, Matta, Beilein, Craig Smith... Seems to be a fall off from there though.... TJO? Would genuinely like to see a list, if there others out there I'm not following I'd love to look into more options, because if they're better than Moser we would be in good shape.

Sent you a PM

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Tod K is an interesting name. His predecessor at Toledo managed to torpedo that program in only two years as a coach. The Rockets had been a consistently strong mid-major but Gene Cross went 11-53 in his 2 seasons and had 2 sub-300 KenPom finishes (and never coached in the NCAA again). Tod K was finishes 332nd in his first season, 206th in his second, 186th in his third, and in the following 8 years he's never finished lower than 152nd and was in the top 100 3 times.

He built the program really well and has kept them consistent. Unfortunately, he also consistently fails to win the MAC tournament. In fact, he's only made the final game once (2018). He usually gets bounced in the opening round.

With his consistency, program building, and midwest roots, he'd probably make my top 10 candidates....but towards the back of it. Hopefully we wouldn't have to go that far down on the list.

[Warrior_2002]

Tod K is an interesting name. His predecessor at Toledo managed to torpedo that program in only two years as a coach. The Rockets had been a consistently strong mid-major but Gene Cross went 11-53 in his 2 seasons and had 2 sub-300 KenPom finishes (and never coached in the NCAA again). Tod K was finishes 332nd in his first season, 206th in his second, 186th in his third, and in the following 8 years he's never finished lower than 152nd and was in the top 100 3 times.

He built the program really well and has kept them consistent. Unfortunately, he also consistently fails to win the MAC tournament. In fact, he's only made the final game once (2018). He usually gets bounced in the opening round.

With his consistency, program building, and midwest roots, he'd probably make my top 10 candidates....but towards the back of it. Hopefully we wouldn't have to go that far down on the list.

Thanks for that info.  Yeah not making/winning the MAC championship after finishing at the top of the conference fairly consistently is a big ding.  I agree with your top 10 assessment on him.

[Hards Alumni]

Sent you a PM

Come now, don't make the rest of us beg.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Thanks for that info.  Yeah not making/winning the MAC championship after finishing at the top of the conference fairly consistently is a big ding.  I agree with your top 10 assessment on him.

He lost to Willie's Woody Wardle.  Watching these mid-major conferences, one thing popped out to me: Many of these coaches solely rely on on their systems to win and not adjustments like is needed in the BE with the round robin. We already have one of those coaches in place.

Show me someone like Oats or Beard who can gameplan against high majors and you have someone who can make the jump. Underlining this is their recruiting network of course. Gates may be that candidate if his recruiting network matches what MU wants in student athletes.  I am doubtful of that match.

[withoutbias]

He lost to Willie's Woody Wardle.  Watching these mid-major conferences, one thing popped out to me: Many of these coaches solely rely on on their systems to win and not adjustments like is needed in the BE with the round robin. We already have one of those coaches in place.

Show me someone like Oats or Beard who can gameplan against high majors and you have someone who can make the jump. Underlining this is their recruiting network of course. Gates may be that candidate if his recruiting network matches what MU wants in student athletes.  I am doubtful of that match.

You absolutely LOVE pushing this narrative anytime you can.

[Dr. Blackheart]

You absolutely LOVE pushing this narrative anytime you can.

Marquette has been on public record in this regard. It's a fact and a job requirement for success. I don't know why you LOVE defending the opposite. Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, DWade are not putting on a MU jersey now or in the future.

We can disagree on this point and it's pros and cons but Larry Williams publicly acknowledged this policy and MU maintains to today. If you hire a Martin with those requirements, he will fail for example. It's why Wojo was hired.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

DWade wouldn't qualify now and would have to go to a prep school or Juco.  So yeah, Marquette wouldn't be able to admit him but nor would anyone else.

I have no idea why Vander wouldn't be admitted.

Jae is really the only issue, and its so particular I'm not sure its meaningful.

[Billy Hoyle]

DWade wouldn't qualify now and would have to go to a prep school or Juco.  So yeah, Marquette wouldn't be able to admit him but nor would anyone else.

I have no idea why Vander wouldn't be admitted.

Jae is really the only issue, and its so particular I'm not sure its meaningful.

Wade likely would get a partial qualifier waiver today. All you have to do is show some kind of hardship.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Marquette has been on public record in this regard.

Show us. I'm not aware of this and would love to read about this policy. Bonus points if its on the public record from an administration that wasn't fired 8 years ago.

I think Gates would get an interview if the admin pulled the trigger on firing Wojo.

[GoldenWarrior11]

So despite everyone and their mother wanting Wojo fired, we are of the collective belief he is for sure returning, no?

[CountryRoads]

So despite everyone and their mother wanting Wojo fired, we are of the collective belief he is for sure returning, no?

Each passing second leads me more to believe he is being retained. Anyone know of a typical time table? The longer the wait would be, the bigger the challenge for the program.

[cheebs09]

Each passing second leads me to believe he is being retained. Anyone know of a typical time table? The longer the wait would be, the bigger the challenge for the program.

If they were to fire Wojo, it would 100% be a Friday afternoon news dump.

[Silent Verbal]

Will MU even “announce” that Wojo’s coming back, or just let it lay like it is if they plan to retain him?  Giving him a vote of confidence would seem to be an acknowledgment on their part that something’s amiss.

[cheebs09]

Will MU even “announce” that Wojo’s coming back, or just let it lay like it is if they plan to retain him?  Giving him a vote of confidence would seem to be an acknowledgment on their part that something’s amiss.

I would imagine he gets an extension and they find a day the Brewers play, the Packers do something in free agency, and/or maybe UW plays in the NCAA tourney to announce. Or wait to announce it in the middle of summer.

I’m going to be very interested the spin they put around it.

[shoothoops]

Marquette has been on public record in this regard. It's a fact and a job requirement for success. I don't know why you LOVE defending the opposite. Vander Blue, Jae Crowder, DWade are not putting on a MU jersey now or in the future.

We can disagree on this point and it's pros and cons but Larry Williams publicly acknowledged this policy and MU maintains to today. If you hire a Martin with those requirements, he will fail for example. It's why Wojo was hired.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. So I will ask to be clear. Are you saying Marquette will not accept partial qualifiers, jucos, etc...moving forward? And are you referencing "Martin" as in Cuonzo Martin? Cuonzo Martin has one kid on his team that came from a prep school after high school before Mizzou. He has one kid who qualified and attended San Diego St. that left for a juco year to improve his basketball stock. (He doesn't play) You are aware that Marquette (Wojo) actively recruited some of the same players that committed to Mizzou, Watson, McKinney, etc...He recruited to Cal Berkeley, which is the same school where Dennis Gates was an All Academic Player. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.

[shoothoops]

Show us. I'm not aware of this and would love to read about this policy. Bonus points if its on the public record from an administration that wasn't fired 8 years ago.

I think Gates would get an interview if the admin pulled the trigger on firing Wojo.

Free Dennis Gates.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Show us. I'm not aware of this and would love to read about this policy. Bonus points if its on the public record from an administration that wasn't fired 8 years ago.

I think Gates would get an interview if the admin pulled the trigger on firing Wojo.

Luckily most of Larry's stuff has been purged but my source was his Law School lecture. Maybe you can find it in the Scoop archives.

As to today, as you know, MU publishes these expectations for prospective student athletes but unfortunately MUAD has not maintained that link. When I last looked at those a while back these seemingly were no different than in Larry's time. Perhaps you can get that released or have another source.

https://gomarquette.com/sports/2018/5/17/academic-srvc-marq-acad-srvc-html

As to Gates, he is intriguing. Whether we agree on this point or not, I think we can agree it's imperative that those expectations (win on the court and classroom) line up with the candidate. Wojo is winning in the classroom but not on the court. Martin or Howland would win on the court but not always in the classroom. Maybe Crean and KO where MU's coaches did both, and Crean was given a lot of bend.

[cheebs09]

I think the reasoning behind the “No Jucos” has gotten warped by this board over time. The change in recruiting requirements was to get ahead of changes by the NCAA and our own poorly trending APR score. This is when UWM and UCONN missed NCAA Tourney eligibility due to bad scores.

The reason we have a limited subset of JUCOs is because many would not be on track to graduate at MU. Many who spend 2 years at JUCOs get a Phy Ed degree. MU doesn’t have that program and this many credits wouldn’t transfer. It would be next to impossible for that player to be on track to graduate and not hurt the APR.

The 3 year JUCOs like Butler and DJO we can work with because there’s more runway for them to get on track to graduate. There’s just not that many out there and even fewer that are as good as those two.

We were spoiled because Buzz had tons of JUCO connections and we found some diamonds in the rough. There are not that many impact JUCOs out there. Also, Wojo has minimal connections. So put that together, and that’s why we don’t have many on our roster. We’ve recruited some recently, but haven’t been the choice.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Luckily most of Larry's stuff has been purged but my source was his Law School lecture. Maybe you can find it in the Scoop archives.

As to today, as you know, MU publishes these expectations for prospective student athletes but unfortunately MUAD has not maintained that link. When I last looked at those a while back these seemingly were no different than in Larry's time. Perhaps you can get that released or have another source.

https://gomarquette.com/sports/2018/5/17/academic-srvc-marq-acad-srvc-html

As to Gates, he is intriguing. Whether we agree on this point or not, I think we can agree it's imperative that those expectations (win on the court and classroom) line up with the candidate. Wojo is winning in the classroom but not on the court. Martin or Howland would win on the court but not always in the classroom. Maybe Crean and KO where MU's coaches did both, and Crean was given a lot of bend.

So they are not on the public record. Your source was a lecture from an AD fired 8 years ago. What exactly did he say during this lecture that led you to believe that JUCOs and Prep Schoolers are forbidden at MU and we will never consider hiring a coach who has recruited JUCOs or Prep Schoolers in the past (or in Niko Medved's case, we won't consider them if they never recruited a JUCO but worked at a school that allows JUCOs)?

[shoothoops]

So they are not on the public record. Your source was a lecture from an AD fired 8 years ago. What exactly did he say during this lecture that led you to believe that JUCOs and Prep Schoolers are forbidden at MU and we will never consider hiring a coach who has recruited JUCOs or Prep Schoolers in the past (or in Niko Medved's case, we won't consider them if they never recruited a JUCO but worked at a school that allows JUCOs)?

1) I don’t believe this policy exists.
2) I would be disappointed if MUBB ever had this policy. Policy needs to be recruit good kids. Not all kids, schools, environments are the same at the prep level. Some kids need not to be penalized for this.
3) It may be a good idea to have and discuss specifics when randomly throwing out names of coaches.
4) Coaches can and do approach different coaching jobs differently.

[Billy Hoyle]

I think the reasoning behind the “No Jucos” has gotten warped by this board over time. The change in recruiting requirements was to get ahead of changes by the NCAA and our own poorly trending APR score. This is when UWM and UCONN missed NCAA Tourney eligibility due to bad scores.

The reason we have a limited subset of JUCOs is because many would not be on track to graduate at MU. Many who spend 2 years at JUCOs get a Phy Ed degree. MU doesn’t have that program and this many credits wouldn’t transfer. It would be next to impossible for that player to be on track to graduate and not hurt the APR.

The 3 year JUCOs like Butler and DJO we can work with because there’s more runway for them to get on track to graduate. There’s just not that many out there and even fewer that are as good as those two.

We were spoiled because Buzz had tons of JUCO connections and we found some diamonds in the rough. There are not that many impact JUCOs out there. Also, Wojo has minimal connections. So put that together, and that’s why we don’t have many on our roster. We’ve recruited some recently, but haven’t been the choice.

No they don't. JUCO's are shying away from those due to ineligibility issues upon transfer. Most get social sciences or communication degrees.

However, you are correct that the transfer credits overall creates an issue for graduation. However, they can make that up with 6-12 credits over two summers. The problem with Buzz's transfers is they were falling behind and needed summer just to get to eligiblity minimum requirements, not move forward towards an on-time graduation.

[shoothoops]

Tom Crean
Archie Miller
Indiana

https://twitter.com/GreggDoyelStar/status/1370465704395296768?s=19

[Hards Alumni]

Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
Jobs Open currently

Boston College
New Mexico
Penn State
Fordham
Jacksonville
UT Martin
UT Rio Grand
Indiana State
Portland
Denver
Albany
Eastern Illinois
C Conn State

https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/1370418986521886722

[MU82]

Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
Jobs Open currently

Boston College
New Mexico
Penn State
Fordham
Jacksonville
UT Martin
UT Rio Grand
Indiana State
Portland
Denver
Albany
Eastern Illinois
C Conn State

https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/1370418986521886722

Wojo to Central Connecticut State?