UConn Thoughts on the BEast

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/do-not-look-at-the-big-easts-record.68607/

This thread popped up on my phone (get Big East alerts from google). It was interesting getting the perspective of UConn fans. It seems like there is a definite divide between fans on which conference they'd rather be in. I got the impression that most would prefer the BEast.

[Brewtown Andy]

If they dump their football program and find a friend, they're welcome to join the Big East in my book.

[SaveOD238]

If they dump their football program and find a friend, they're welcome to join the Big East in my book.

Or if their conference falls apart and they're willing to stash football in the MAC

[GGGG]

Or if their conference falls apart and they're willing to stash football in the MAC

Neither of which is going to happen...

[brewcity77]

I don't want anyone stashing football. The Big East should be basketball only. No D1 football. Football schools in this league would always have one got out the door. I only want teams that want to be here.

[Texas Western]

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/do-not-look-at-the-big-easts-record.68607/

This thread popped up on my phone (get Big East alerts from google). It was interesting getting the perspective of UConn fans. It seems like there is a definite divide between fans on which conference they'd rather be in. I got the impression that most would prefer the BEast.

Interesting Thread. Clearly they have no fondness for Wojo

U Conn is in a good position no matter what conference they are in. Defending National Champs and pretty much going to be in the discussion every year.  They will get in the ACC the next time they expand. Last go around they were finessed by Louisville and their political backers.

[GGGG]

They will get in the ACC the next time they expand. Last go around they were finessed by Louisville and their political backers.

Louisville is a better athletic program by a long shot.  In retrospect it was an obvious choice. 

And I don't think the ACC is expanding anytime soon.  They already have 14 members and Notre Dame as an associate.  The only conference that I think is looking at expansion is the Big 12, and since it would be highly expensive, I don't think they'll be taking any members from the ACC.

[brewcity77]

UConn is in a really tough spot. Geographically the ACC is the only option, but unless Notre Dame goes all-in, I can't see them expanding. Maybe another associate member to balance the ACC tournament, but even that seems unlikely.

I think the Huskies need the AAC to succeed. There's just no one else that wants them.

[muwarrior69]

Interesting Thread. Clearly they have no fondness for Wojo

U Conn is in a good position no matter what conference they are in. Defending National Champs and pretty much going to be in the discussion every year.  They will get in the ACC the next time they expand. Last go around they were finessed by Louisville and their political backers.

They are afraid he will succeed at MU....so the schadenfreude.

[Eldon]

Louisville is a better athletic program by a long shot.  In retrospect it was an obvious choice. 

And I don't think the ACC is expanding anytime soon.  They already have 14 members and Notre Dame as an associate.  The only conference that I think is looking at expansion is the Big 12, and since it would be highly expensive, I don't think they'll be taking any members from the ACC.

That and the strategic advantage Lville game them. The ACC knew that the B12 would never take Uconn for geographical reasons. The B12 would, however, likely consider Lville and Cincy. So the ACC takes Lville before the B12 can and the upshot is that they still have Uconn intheir back pocket should they ever need them.

[Tugg Speedman]

Interesting Thread. Clearly they have no fondness for Wojo

U Conn is in a good position no matter what conference they are in. Defending National Champs and pretty much going to be in the discussion every year.  They will get in the ACC the next time they expand. Last go around they were finessed by Louisville and their political backers.

I disagree about the reason Uconn did not get it.  The conference was at 14 so everyone got a 1/14th share.  From them to dilute to a 1/15 share, that 15th school had to bring something to the table.  Uconn is not bringing the NYC TV market.  So the thought was they would dilute for Uconn and not make it back by adding them.  Louisville promised its TV market, and possibly Cincinnati and Indianapolis.  You may not buy this argument but the ACC brass did.

The conference is at 15 now.  That is maximum.  No one is going higher until other conferences collapse (read Big 12).  Should this happen the B1G is going first and everyone will follow.

[GGGG]

The ACC has 15 members.  14 football playing and Notre Dame.

They had 12...added Pitt and Syracuse...lost Maryland...added Louisville.

[Tugg Speedman]

The ACC has 15 members.  14 football playing and Notre Dame.

They had 12...added Pitt and Syracuse...lost Maryland...added Louisville.

Yes, I knew that, confused them with the old BE.  My bad.

Edited my post above, same story applies.  Tell us what revenues Uconn brings to the table, and you'll understand why they are not part of the ACC.  Remember, the priority is football, football football, basketball , everything else.  It's nice that Uconn wins NC in basketball but what does that mean for football revenue?

[Tugg Speedman]

Last thought, if the ACC is going to consider Uconn, West Virginia will sell its soul to get out of the Big 12 for the ACC.  Do not assume if the ACC expands Uconn is next on the list.  Boston College might have something to say about that.

[GooooMarquette]

I doubt the ACC ever takes UConn.  

UConn has nothing to offer in terms of football, and the only hoops-related reason for the ACC's expansion was to end the BE's reign as the premier hoops conference.  They accomplished that by taking UL and Cuse (and got the NYC TV market with Cuse). Even if UConn joined the BE, there'd be little question that the ACC will be the best overall hoops conference most years.  

So what exactly would the ACC get?  Good football?  Nope.  The NYC TV market?  No need - they already have it.  The best hoops conference?  No need - they already have it.  UConn would be nothing more than another mouth to feed.  Great hoops program, no doubt...but the ACC already has plenty of them.

[Texas Western]

I disagree about the reason Uconn did not get it.  The conference was at 14 so everyone got a 1/14th share.  From them to dilute to a 1/15 share, that 15th school had to bring something to the table.  Uconn is not bringing the NYC TV market.  So the thought was they would dilute for Uconn and not make it back by adding them.  Louisville promised its TV market, and possibly Cincinnati and Indianapolis.  You may not buy this argument but the ACC brass did.

The conference is at 15 now.  That is maximum.  No one is going higher until other conferences collapse (read Big 12).  Should this happen the B1G is going first and everyone will follow.

Louisville ran a very sophisticated lobbying operation, to the point of getting their US Senators involved. If you remember at the time the Big East was imploding, the U Conn President made dumb statement after dumb statement , which in part started the C 7 movement and pretty much threw away their bargaining power with TV and other conferences.

At the end of the day U Conn football sucks and Louisville Football had a long history as a top 25 team . BC was also lobbying against U Conn for some parochial reason.  So even though U Conn is a much better academic fit, and brings the NY market, Louisville was able market themselves better.

It the ACC expands  again the two they will look at are U Conn and Cincy.

[GoldenWarrior11]

If UCONN would rather be in a conference with Tulsa, Houston, SMU, Tulane, UCF, and East Carolina, all I can say is good luck.  They have nothing in common with the other AAC schools (other than Cincinnati and USF - the former Big East schools) in terms of institution, location or sports prestige.  It may not happen today, this week, this month or this year, but there will be a point that associating themselves in Conference USA 3.0 will bring detrimental effects to its other sports programs.

[GoldenWarrior11]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24839675/uab-football-isnt-alone-in-losing-money-for-athletic-departments

CBS article on the possibility of UAB dropping football by 2016.  They are losing $17.5 million per year on athletics.  Dropping football would significantly drop that deficit. 

UCONN, among numerous other G5 schools, is listed.  They are losing $18.9 million per year on athletics. 

All 7 AAC schools that are public (Tulane, SMU, Tulsa are private - therefore, that do not release their figures) are on this deficit-list and losing significant amounts of money with their athletic programs. 

Regardless of whether UCONN is considering joining the Big East or not, the facts do not support UCONN continuing and maintaining its sports programs (especially football) long-term in the AAC.

[GGGG]

Possibly.  It is impossible to view these things in a vacuum.  Football at many schools is a public relations / recruiting expense more than anything.

[Tugg Speedman]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24839675/uab-football-isnt-alone-in-losing-money-for-athletic-departments

CBS article on the possibility of UAB dropping football by 2016.  They are losing $17.5 million per year on athletics.  Dropping football would significantly drop that deficit. 

UCONN, among numerous other G5 schools, is listed.  They are losing $18.9 million per year on athletics. 

All 7 AAC schools that are public (Tulane, SMU, Tulsa are private - therefore, that do not release their figures) are on this deficit-list and losing significant amounts of money with their athletic programs. 

Regardless of whether UCONN is considering joining the Big East or not, the facts do not support UCONN continuing and maintaining its sports programs (especially football) long-term in the AAC.

Most football teams lose money. 

I posted this two years ago

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34465.msg421983#msg421983

60 minutes did a story on college football. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50135410n

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57551556/has-college-football-become-a-campus-commodity/

In it they flat out stated the purpose of football is to raise the profile of the school.  That is mission 1.  Mission 2 is to make Alums feel good about the school so they donate.

Most interesting is this statement by Dave Brandon, former CEO of Dominos Pizza and now Michigan AD ...

-----

Dave Brandon: The business model of big-time college athletics is primarily broken. It's, it's a horrible business model.

Armen Keteyian: Broken.

Dave Brandon: Broken. You've got 125 of these programs. Out of 125, 22 of them were cash flow even or cash flow positive. Now, thankfully, we're one of those. What that means is you've got a model that's not sustainable in most cases. You just don't have enough revenues to support the costs. And the costs continue to go up.

Why? A big reason is universities are in the midst of a sports building binge. Cal Berkeley, for example, renovated its stadium to the tune of $321 million. The list is endless. Michigan's athletic department floated $226 million in bonds to upgrade the Big House.

-----

I assume the "125" he was talking about is actually the 127 schools that make up the FBS.  Only 22 are cash-flow positive.  That's it!  I find that statistic unbelievable.

Why would you want to subject a university that already has national name recognition through basketball to this terrible business model?  I cannot see it.

And, how does a non-scholarship or lower division program help in mission 1 (raising name recognition) or mission 2 (increasing donations)?

[GoldenWarrior11]

Heisenberg, most P5 schools break even (or are at least close to breaking even) with their athletic budgets.  Only one B1G school lost money in 2013 (Penn State, nearly $6 million - due in most part to the Sandusky scandal).  These G5 schools listed are losing tens of millions of dollars.  Per year.  Costs are going up.  TV deals are going up.  Coaching salaries are going up.  The cost of athletic scholarships are going up.  Everything is going up.

Also, there's this that came out today:

Thayer Evans Verified account
‏@ThayerEvansSI
BREAKING: UAB is firing athletic director Brian Mackin & will announce later this week it will be shutting down football program per source.

UAB will announce this week that it is dropping football in 2016 - the first of many dominoes to fall in the coming years.  They will not be the last school that decides the cost is no longer worth it.  Many more schools will not be able to afford the costs of a FBS football program.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Can I ask an honest question? And I swear this isn't trying to be political. What happened to all the liberal faculty and administrators who used to go ape (correctly!) about diverting funds from academics to athletics? Were they "bought off" by the prestige that all the athletics programs are supposed to provide their work? Do they just not care as long as their own checks clear?

[GGGG]

BTW, this UAB thing looks as much political as economic. 

http://deadspin.com/report-uab-to-shut-down-its-football-program-1664885691

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So UAB will be getting a Big East invite soon?

[Tugg Speedman]

Heisenberg, most P5 schools break even (or are at least close to breaking even) with their athletic budgets.  Only one B1G school lost money in 2013 (Penn State, nearly $6 million - due in most part to the Sandusky scandal).  These G5 schools listed are losing tens of millions of dollars.  Per year.  Costs are going up.  TV deals are going up.  Coaching salaries are going up.  The cost of athletic scholarships are going up.  Everything is going up.

So Dave Brandon lied to 60 minutes?

My understanding is athletic department accounting is where the old Enron accountants wound up, they help create largely made up numbers to show they are making money by including school donation and other "creative methods" to keep everyone off their backs.

Point is Brandon statements are largely what most believe about athletic departments.