Protests

[forgetful]

Please note, none of what I'm about to type in any way exonerates Trump or decreases the vileness of his character.......

I've been thinking a lot about what comes next, where do things go from here and I realized we are spending a lot of time focused on Trump which in this moment I think is misplaced. Listen, in a bizarro universe Trump is a uniter and not a divider trying to bring people together at the national level. That just isn't reality, but it also seems to provide cover for those who could also make meaningful change without Trump involved. If we all agree that systemically there is an issue with the policing in this country, almost none of that system has to do with the federal level. Yes, the FBI, ICE, ATF, etc are federal police organizations but the majority of the concern is the policing within the local communities. Why are we not focusing on the local government leadership? The pressure should be brought to bear on governors, attorneys general, mayors, sheriffs, and police chiefs (especially the last three). It strikes me that the protests have done a very good job of drawing attention to the issues but now is the time to pivot to actual change and not spend it spinning away at yet another Trump is bad fight.

So, what do the next couple of weeks look like to put pressure on the local authorities to enact change?

I think you are over-emphasizing the "police violence" angle. The outcry was catalyzed by Floyd's death, and the deaths of many others recently. But it is about the systemic inequities that has suppressed generation after generation. That isn't going to be fixed by local government leadership. It has to be an international movement.

That is why you see marches around the world. A lot of people are fed up with how we treat a sizable population of our communities, treating them like "others" that are a danger or threat to "us". The movement and protests are about breaking down those labels, and realizing that we are one people. "They" are "us" and it is time we do everything in our power to ensure that their is equity, and fairness, and likely most importantly compassion and trust.

[shoothoops]

Ft. Lauderdale police officer that shoved a seated female protestor has been reviewed by Internal Affairs 79 times in 3.5 years for using force.

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article243234261.html?__twitter_impression=true

[MU82]

Thirty years ago, in this interview with Playboy, Trump praises China for Tiananmen Square.

https://www.playboy.com/read/playboy-interview-donald-trump-1990?fbclid=IwAR3LqO-tLfy9a7cWteDhE8Afo8HdQEYrAoOZg7mr-FBzicJeStGJLeE5Uqg

He also criticizes Gorbachev for not being ruthless enough, and mocks Bush Sr. for wanting a kinder, gentler America.

He said a lot of other ridiculous crap: Jesus and Mother Teresa had "far greater egos than you will ever understand"; patting himself on the back for his newspaper ads urging the death penalty for the Central Park 5, who weren't even charged yet and who ended up being exonerated by DNA evidence; and not wanting to ever be president because he wanted to focus on things like his foundation, which a couple years ago was forced to disband because he was illegally using funds meant for charity, including on a portrait of himself.

But it was his "I'm the toughest guy in the world and just about everybody else is a wimp" schtick that really resonates now, 30 years later. Very typical talk for a guy who has spent his life bullying others, a coward who wouldn't fight for America himself but would use his militia to attack a group of peaceful protesters just so he could stage a photo-op.

President Bone Spur wants his own Tiananmen Square, his own Kent State. That'd show the ba$tard$!

[Uncle Rico]

Thirty years ago, in this interview with Playboy, Trump praises China for Tiananmen Square.

https://www.playboy.com/read/playboy-interview-donald-trump-1990?fbclid=IwAR3LqO-tLfy9a7cWteDhE8Afo8HdQEYrAoOZg7mr-FBzicJeStGJLeE5Uqg

He also criticizes Gorbachev for not being ruthless enough, and mocks Bush Sr. for wanting a kinder, gentler America.

He said a lot of other ridiculous crap: Jesus and Mother Teresa had "far greater egos than you will ever understand"; patting himself on the back for his newspaper ads urging the death penalty for the Central Park 5, who weren't even charged yet and who ended up being exonerated by DNA evidence; and not wanting to ever be president because he wanted to focus on things like his foundation, which a couple years ago was forced to disband because he was illegally using funds meant for charity, including on a portrait of himself.

But it was his "I'm the toughest guy in the world and just about everybody else is a wimp" schtick that really resonates now, 30 years later. Very typical talk for a guy who has spent his life bullying others, a coward who wouldn't fight for America himself but would use his militia to attack a group of peaceful protesters just so he could stage a photo-op.

President Bone Spur wants his own Tiananmen Square, his own Kent State. That'd show the ba$tard$!

I’m surprised he was able to walk from the White House to the church down the road with those debilitating bone spurs

[tower912]

Clearly why he drives his golf carts up onto tee boxes and greens.   

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Why this creep lies about such obvious truths is beyond understanding.

Because 90% of his followers, the Fox viewing/Limbaugh listening segment, will never discover that they are lies. The other 10% that stumble across the truth won't care because they got, you know, their tax cuts.

[mu03eng]

Yes, much like mayors and governors stepped up during the pandemic to fill the vacuum of leadership created at the federal level, this is another opportunity for them to address on an ad hoc basis one of the most vexing problems of this or any other time.    And when they are done, they can replace Jared in bringing peace to the middle east.   

Seriously, though, governors and mayors are going to have to lead.     And if they are smart, they will be communicating and collaborating.

I agree, and that's why I brought this up. I'm not saying it's intentional, but since Trump went off the deep end on Sunday the "focus" seems to have shifted to Trump in this, I get it but other than DC any of the bad outcomes and/or problems are controlled at the local level. What DeBlasio and Coumo are doing in NYC is like a dystopian novel. I feel like the local authorities are largely hiding behind the hate of Trump because that means there isn't any focus on them.

My point is, the change has to be local, and I can't speak for anywhere else because I'm only local to MKE, but I'm definitely not seeing any discussions about local changes.

[mu03eng]

Ft. Lauderdale police officer that shoved a seated female protestor has been reviewed by Internal Affairs 79 times in 3.5 years for using force.

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article243234261.html?__twitter_impression=true

These issues are going to make for very interesting political bedfellows. One of the significant barriers to change is the power of Police Unions....will the Ds have the will power to breakdown a union? will the Rs have the will power to not stand up for the one union that tends to support their politics? I don't know, but I'm not terribly optimistic.

[Spotcheck Billy]

.

[GooooMarquette]

I agree, and that's why I brought this up. I'm not saying it's intentional, but since Trump went off the deep end on Sunday the "focus" seems to have shifted to Trump in this, I get it but other than DC any of the bad outcomes and/or problems are controlled at the local level. What DeBlasio and Coumo are doing in NYC is like a dystopian novel. I feel like the local authorities are largely hiding behind the hate of Trump because that means there isn't any focus on them.

My point is, the change has to be local, and I can't speak for anywhere else because I'm only local to MKE, but I'm definitely not seeing any discussions about local changes.

I don’t know where they will go, but here are a couple:

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2020/06/03/george-floyd-protests-proposed-reforms/amp

https://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/news/local/george-floyd-protests-dallas-changes-police/287-3a793b3c-406a-4ff0-bd19-4a0391c5c752

Even the very conservative governor of South Dakota sounds open to reform:

https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/03/gov-kristi-noem-calls-police-changes-after-george-floyd-death-south-dakota/3134746001/

[MU82]

I agree, and that's why I brought this up. I'm not saying it's intentional, but since Trump went off the deep end on Sunday the "focus" seems to have shifted to Trump in this, I get it but other than DC any of the bad outcomes and/or problems are controlled at the local level. What DeBlasio and Coumo are doing in NYC is like a dystopian novel. I feel like the local authorities are largely hiding behind the hate of Trump because that means there isn't any focus on them.

My point is, the change has to be local, and I can't speak for anywhere else because I'm only local to MKE, but I'm definitely not seeing any discussions about local changes.

You're right, of course. I know I am guilty of focusing on the top, because having a great leader would mean so much right now. And while I agree that we need the same people who have stepped up during the pandemic to do so about this soul-of-America issue, their job is all the more difficult because not only aren't we getting leadership from the top, we are getting resistance from the top. Our supposed national leader is actively seeking to inhibit the stuff we need, forcing his own underlings to denounce his policies.

But yes, we need big-time leadership from governors, mayors, county boards, city councils, school boards, civic leaders, etc. Despite this very difficult last week, I am hopeful.

Hell, I'll even give Trump credit for signing the First Step Act a couple years ago. That really was a good first step. It's a shame that his bone spurs got in the way of him taking any other good steps, but it again shows there's hope.

[cheebs09]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

General James Mattis finally spoke out today, and wow, it was something. He absolutely destroyed everything about Trump. This decorated general who is one of the most respected military men among both the Brass and the enlisted men even compared Trump to Hitler. Between his letter of resignation and this piece, there will be some advanced courses in American History with these two documents as the centerpiece.


Trump tweeted tonight that he fired Mattis. Mattis resigned after Trump stabbed the Kurds in the back and we have the document to prove it. He also tweeted that he gave Mattis the nickname Mad Dog. Everyone knows this was a longtime nickname that was in place years before Trump ever heard of him. Why this creep lies about such obvious truths is beyond understanding.

The part about saying he went to the bunker briefly to inspect it is crazy too. Just say it’s SS protocol when they think there’s a risk to his safety. I’m guessing that’s not too far from the truth. The stuff that no one really cares about and is easily disproved that he still lies about I will never grasp.

[mu03eng]

You're right, of course. I know I am guilty of focusing on the top, because having a great leader would mean so much right now. And while I agree that we need the same people who have stepped up during the pandemic to do so about this soul-of-America issue, their job is all the more difficult because not only aren't we getting leadership from the top, we are getting resistance from the top. Our supposed national leader is actively seeking to inhibit the stuff we need, forcing his own underlings to denounce his policies.

But yes, we need big-time leadership from governors, mayors, county boards, city councils, school boards, civic leaders, etc. Despite this very difficult last week, I am hopeful.

Hell, I'll even give Trump credit for signing the First Step Act a couple years ago. That really was a good first step. It's a shame that his bone spurs got in the way of him taking any other good steps, but it again shows there's hope.

Yeah, I guess what I'm saying that in this particular instance even good presidential leadership would be counter productive. We tend to think national and act local....if we think it's being handled nationally we take our foot off the gas locally. There is a way for the president to avoid that for sure but not even Obama really figured that out and of presidents in my life time hes the one I would put the most faith in trying to calm while driving change at the lower levels.

We need the local level folks stepping up, putting a plan together, and then executing(asking for help federally where necessary). Take MKE and Mayor Barrett, between him and the police chief the current thinking is allow the protests and minimize violence/looting.....I've yet to see any discussion of reform that makes the protesters feel heard.

And it's not just the big cities, it's any community regardless of size. I don't care if you live in a town that's 100% white, we should all want these reforms because white people get killed unnecessarily by cops too....just not nearly at the rate minorities do.

I listened to DeRay Mckanssen on a podcast and he asked a really good question.....what are the circumstances under which if your child was harmed or killed you would say " that really sucks, but I get it"? Whatever those circumstances are, they should apply to everyone's child (take the punishment out of the equation, this is just the immediate police interaction) regardless of who they are

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Yeah, I guess what I'm saying that in this particular instance even good presidential leadership would be counter productive. We tend to think national and act local....if we think it's being handled nationally we take our foot off the gas locally. There is a way for the president to avoid that for sure but not even Obama really figured that out and of presidents in my life time hes the one I would put the most faith in trying to calm while driving change at the lower levels.

We need the local level folks stepping up, putting a plan together, and then executing(asking for help federally where necessary). Take MKE and Mayor Barrett, between him and the police chief the current thinking is allow the protests and minimize violence/looting.....I've yet to see any discussion of reform that makes the protesters feel heard.

And it's not just the big cities, it's any community regardless of size. I don't care if you live in a town that's 100% white, we should all want these reforms because white people get killed unnecessarily by cops too....just not nearly at the rate minorities do.

I listened to DeRay Mckanssen on a podcast and he asked a really good question.....what are the circumstances under which if your child was harmed or killed you would say " that really sucks, but I get it"? Whatever those circumstances are, they should apply to everyone's child (take the punishment out of the equation, this is just the immediate police interaction) regardless of who they are

Many changes in our history start with a national catalyst.  Federal government sets priorities of what cases we pursue through our federal courts, they provide oversite, and they provide funding. 

In a reverse example, I would say the militarization of our police came from the feds first.  So yeah - local govt's had to purchase that equipment, but a lot of the funding came from the center.  So if the fed's didnt matter how did all these local governments end up with expensive military grade equipment?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Many changes in our history start with a national catalyst.  Federal government sets priorities of what cases we pursue through our federal courts, they provide oversite, and they provide funding. 

In a reverse example, I would say the militarization of our police came from the feds first.  So yeah - local govt's had to purchase that equipment, but a lot of the funding came from the center.  So if the fed's didnt matter how did all these local governments end up with expensive military grade equipment?

The previous administration sold local police and sheriff departments the surplus vehicles and equipment from Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The previous administration sold local police and sheriff departments the surplus vehicles and equipment from Iraq and Afghanistan.

No kidding.  I know that and it proves my point...since 9/11/01 we have centrally and systematically shaped our local police force (probably even earlier, but certainly since that date).

This isn't an attempt to get into a pissing match about R's and D's

[drewm88]

There's a ton of local pressure and reform happening. Examples -- In Minneapolis, the U, the public schools, and the park district have all taken major steps cutting ties with MPD. In LA, Garcetti is slashing the police budget and reinvesting that money in underserved communities. I think the last couple days has seen a shift in the narrative from outrage/protests and resources for individuals to engage and learn, to how to do something about it on a policy level. I hope it's sustained and doesn't fade when our attention is inevitably snatched by something else.

[Pakuni]

The previous administration sold local police and sheriff departments the surplus vehicles and equipment from Iraq and Afghanistan.

This has been happening informally since WWII under the Surplus Property Act, and was formalized as the "1033 Program" during the Clinton Administration.
The Obama Administration placed limits on it after the riots in Ferguson and Baltimore, banning the sale of tracked armored vehicles, bayonets, grenade launchers, camouflage uniforms and large-caliber weapons and ammunition to police.
The Trump Administation has since overturned those limitations.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm really surprised the gun toting NRA types haven't been critical of the tyranical use of military force we saw in DC earlier this week.  Why aren't they showing up in support of the Constitutional rights they say are so important to them?

Well maybe soon.

[Jockey]

I'm really surprised the gun toting NRA types haven't been critical of the tyranical use of military force we saw in DC earlier this week.  Why aren't they showing up in support of the Constitutional rights they say are so important to them?

Well maybe soon.

Not to worry. Once a Dem is back in the White House, those rights will be important again.

[mu03eng]

Many changes in our history start with a national catalyst.  Federal government sets priorities of what cases we pursue through our federal courts, they provide oversite, and they provide funding. 

In a reverse example, I would say the militarization of our police came from the feds first.  So yeah - local govt's had to purchase that equipment, but a lot of the funding came from the center.  So if the fed's didnt matter how did all these local governments end up with expensive military grade equipment?

I dont disagree that needs to change....but the police aren't committing violence because they have "weapons of war" they are doing so because culturally, organizationally, and from a policy perspective they are at a minimum not incentivized to avoid the violence.

The military equipment no doubt enables some of the actions we're seeing during these protests but in a normal police situation it has almost no bearing.

Put another way(admittedly blunt) George Floyd isn't dead because the MPD had a tank somewhere, he's dead because of bad cops who were enabled by bad policies.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I dont disagree that needs to change....but the police aren't committing violence because they have "weapons of war" they are doing so because culturally, organizationally, and from a policy perspective they are at a minimum not incentivized to avoid the violence.

The military equipment no doubt enables some of the actions we're seeing during these protests but in a normal police situation it has almost no bearing.

Put another way(admittedly blunt) George Floyd isn't dead because the MPD had a tank somewhere, he's dead because of bad cops who were enabled by bad policies.

I clearly didn’t state what I was trying to say well.  The example is to show that the federal govt absolutely has the power and capability to lead change.  In fact if it is to change it will take both local and federal prioritization, in my opinion. 

[mu03eng]

I clearly didn’t state what I was trying to say well.  The example is to show that the federal govt absolutely has the power and capability to lead change.  In fact if it is to change it will take both local and federal prioritization, in my opinion.

Not going to totally disgree....I just think meaningful change can happen with or without the feds, but meaningful change can't happen only with the feds

[MU82]

The part about saying he went to the bunker briefly to inspect it is crazy too. Just say it’s SS protocol when they think there’s a risk to his safety. I’m guessing that’s not too far from the truth. The stuff that no one really cares about and is easily disproved that he still lies about I will never grasp.

We throw around the term "pathological liar," but that's exactly what he is. If he weren't such a reprehensible human being and dangerous president, one could almost feel sorry for him because it appears he simply can't tell the truth.

Like a 5-year-old caught with a cookie in his hand, his first instinct is to say, "What cookie? I don't have a cookie." I mean, he has lied multiple times about where his own father was born. Who else lies like that? Nobody.

It's a combination of him being a pathological liar, of him having narcissistic personality disorder, and of his enablers reinforcing his lies by heralding him as the one and only truth-teller: It's everybody else who's lying; we love Trump because he tells it like it is.

Even his supporters who admit he lies say he merely "stretches the truth" or "exaggerates." Or they say, "So what; they all do it."

Yes, anybody can name a politician and rattle off a few lies he or she has told, and yes, some were whoppers. Mention Trump lying, and a sycophant will quickly counter with Obama's "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." Or maybe Clinton's lies about Monica or even Nixon's about Watergate, etc.

But there never has been anybody like this guy. Lying is his default mode. He has told thousands and thousands and thousands of them, big and small, and he tells them in an age when fact-checking is incredibly easy, a 10-second Google search away from proving he is totally full of it. He doesn't care, and neither do his sycophants.

A good mental-health professional could do his or her life's work on it. It would be an fascinating study.

[Jockey]

I dont disagree that needs to change....but the police aren't committing violence because they have "weapons of war" they are doing so because culturally, organizationally, and from a policy perspective they are at a minimum not incentivized to avoid the violence.

The military equipment no doubt enables some of the actions we're seeing during these protests but in a normal police situation it has almost no bearing.

Put another way(admittedly blunt) George Floyd isn't dead because the MPD had a tank somewhere, he's dead because of bad cops who were enabled by bad policies.

I tend to agree - if for no other reason than that we have seen real change before and know where it comes from.

Real change comes from the bottom up, not from the top down. Politicians generally didn't give a rat's a$$ about gay rights until enough people at the bottom demanded change.

This is the one thing that encourages me here. The protests continue day after day. People everywhere are speaking out, no longer worrying about the risk of doing so. I mean, when MJ speaks out, you know there is a sea change coming. I would encourage everyone check out the WSCR interview with Akeem Hicks of the bears for an example of how things have changed. A guy who supported Kaepernik, but was afraid to show that support because he feared being blackballed is now speaking with total honesty. Even criticizing Pace for signing Glennon without ever considering Kaepernik when every single player knew Colin was a better player with a better resume.