Jamil Wilson

[BCHoopster]

is just hard to figure out.  So much talent, so invisible most of the time.  the best shooter against the zone is Jamil, has to be more aggressive wanting the ball and making plays.  He
took 2 three point shots, he should be taking 5-7 bombs a game against a zone. Really having Juan and Lockett jacking up threes is a problem since they rarely ever make on.  Vander
is unpredictable every game, Cadougan did not even try one today but he showed today why against good games he is a turnover waiting to happen or refuses to look at the basket.
There was so many potential fast breaks in the game that Junior is clueless how to attack, to bad.  Get more shots for Jamil.

[Markusquette]

I agree.  It's frustrating seeing Jamil knocking these shots down and with his stroke it looks pretty effortless a lot of the time.  I'd much rather have Jamil shooting some semi-contested shots as opposed to even an open Lockett or Juan most of the time.  I don't see why Jamil doesn't look for his shot more now.  There was the argument of letting the game come to him, but if it's going to come this slowly he needs to start stepping up and becoming more of a force on offense.

[Goose]

Problem is our half court offense is horrible. I agree Jamil is best outside threat but have Jr. and VB play catch 30 feet from basket on every possesion makes it tough to get looks. We need better movement on offense and quicker decisions made. Our guys always seem a step late on the pass.

[Hards Alumni]

Jamil has been disappointing all year long.  He is so frustrating to watch because he has the talent.  He just doesn't want to, or can't put it together.

[MUMonster03]

I think the most disappointing have to be the other two mentioned Anderson and Lockett. Anderson is shooting below 37% for the year and Lockett is just under 39%, his worst season FG% was his Freshman year at ASU and that was just below 49%, not sure where his shot has gone. He also has gone from 41% 3's to 28% this year.

As far as Jamil goes, I was looking for him to step up this year since there would be more shots for him with Jae and DJO gone but he is playing the exact same role he did last year. A little less minutes, a little over 1 more point a game, FG 3 and FT % all up, but blocks and steals are down and TO's are up. Just hasn't made that next step that a lot of us were hoping he would make when the opportunity presented it self ala Lazar, Jimmy, Jae, and DJO.

[Clam Crowder]

If I was Jamil I would be pretty pissed with the situation. Juan gets alot of boards I guess, but the guy doesn't do much else for this team. Jamil should be starting...Buzz needs to get Jamil on the floor. I understand we did the same thing with Erik and Jae, but I think its time to abandon this idea.

[Hards Alumni]

If I was Jamil I would be pretty pissed with the situation. Juan gets alot of boards I guess, but the guy doesn't do much else for this team. Jamil should be starting...Buzz needs to get Jamil on the floor. I understand we did the same thing with Erik and Jae, but I think its time to abandon this idea.

What?  What has Jamil shown you this year that would make you think he deserves more minutes?  He has been a liability with the ball, and his turnovers are out of control.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What?  What has Jamil shown you this year that would make you think he deserves more minutes?  He has been a liability with the ball, and his turnovers are out of control.

Todd and Jamil should be playing 40min!

[Clam Crowder]

What?  What has Jamil shown you this year that would make you think he deserves more minutes?  He has been a liability with the ball, and his turnovers are out of control.

Jamil has more potential to score and give us valuable minutes than Juan. Juan is not good. Give Jamil a chance...he had 13 last night on 4 shots.

[chapman]

If I was Jamil I would be pretty pissed with the situation. Juan gets alot of boards I guess, but the guy doesn't do much else for this team. Jamil should be starting...Buzz needs to get Jamil on the floor. I understand we did the same thing with Erik and Jae, but I think its time to abandon this idea.

Jamil has more potential to score and give us valuable minutes than Juan. Juan is not good. Give Jamil a chance...he had 13 last night on 4 shots.

I think you've answered the reason.  Jamil has potential, we just don't see enough of it materialize.  He's not one to get pissed about the situation and make the coach play him more.  He's soft.  He lost his starting job because he wasn't particularly effective and had a tendency to pick up early fouls.  He took 4 shots last night and scored 13 - which should lead to the question: why is he not shooting more?  It's not because his 29 minutes didn't fall within the first four of the game.

[Sunbelt15]

He finally showed up in a big game. Loved it.

[MUMonster03]

What?  What has Jamil shown you this year that would make you think he deserves more minutes?  He has been a liability with the ball, and his turnovers are out of control.

Jamil's TO's are not out of control, they are up from last year but he is 1.5 a game. His TO numbers are inflated by two bad OoC games. He has only turned the ball over more than once in 2 BEast games, UConn and DePaul, He has turned it over exactly as much as Gardner.

Also, to clarify my earlier comment I'm not saying he is as good as 4 players that got drafted into the NBA, just when it became their chance to seize more of a role they took it.

[tower912]

Jamil isn't starting for 2 reasons.   1.   A tendency for stupid early fouls.    2. Buzz thinks he works well with Gardner.    Of course he is better than Juan.   The minutes played reflect that.    Stop committing dumb fouls and come to play every night.    For now the rotation works.   Now if somebody wants to debate starting Mayo over Lockett, I am all ears. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Jamil isn't starting for 2 reasons.   1.   A tendency for stupid early fouls.    2. Buzz thinks he works well with Gardner.    Of course he is better than Juan.   The minutes played reflect that.    Stop committing dumb fouls and come to play every night.    For now the rotation works.   Now if somebody wants to debate starting Mayo over Lockett, I am all ears. 

Mayo is more of a scorer but Lockett does everything else better. Unless Mayo is hot, Lockett deserves the bulk of those minutes.

[tower912]

Lockett is a good rebounder and decent help defender.   He is not quick laterally and he gets beat at least once a game back door.   Mayo is as good on-ball defensively and a better scorer, particularly from outside.   I'm not saying that this switch SHOULD be made, because I understand Buzz wanting to bring offense off of the bench.   I am saying that if the starting line up were to be tampered with, rather than Jamil over Juan, I would prefer Todd over Trent.  I doubt either happens and am content with the current distribution of minutes.   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Todd Mayo is Dwight Buycks.

I don't say that as a knock on either guy, but rather as a reality check for all of us internet nerds.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=dwight-buycks&dwight-buycks=career&i=1&p1=todd-mayo&todd-mayo=career

Todd's not the "scorer" that many of us assumed he'd be this season.

I still like his upside as an upper classman, but I think expectations are just too high for him right now.

If he was starting, we'd probably be crying for Trent Lockett.

[Sunbelt15]

Mayo should be head over hills a better shooter than what he is now. Hell, you have the guidance and advice of a NBA superstar at your fingertips. His off season workouts should be game changing like the Curry Brothers. Swish

[MerrittsMustache]

Todd Mayo is Dwight Buycks.

I don't say that as a knock on either guy, but rather as a reality check for all of us internet nerds.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=dwight-buycks&dwight-buycks=career&i=1&p1=todd-mayo&todd-mayo=career

Todd's not the "scorer" that many of us assumed he'd be this season.

I still like his upside as an upper classman, but I think expectations are just too high for him right now.

If he was starting, we'd probably be crying for Trent Lockett.

Funny how similar their stats are while one player (with slightly better numbers) was the fans' whipping boy and the other is the savior.

[RJax55]

Mayo should be head over hills a better shooter than what he is now. Hell, you have the guidance and advice of a NBA superstar at your fingertips. His off season workouts should be game changing like the Curry Brothers. Swish

OJ Mayo is hardily a NBA superstar. He's not even an All-Star.

[Hards Alumni]

I think you've answered the reason.  Jamil has potential, we just don't see enough of it materialize.  He's not one to get pissed about the situation and make the coach play him more.  He's soft.  He lost his starting job because he wasn't particularly effective and had a tendency to pick up early fouls.  He took 4 shots last night and scored 13 - which should lead to the question: why is he not shooting more?  It's not because his 29 minutes didn't fall within the first four of the game.

This.  I just don't see the worth of Jamil this year.  He was supposed to be one of our best players (think back to his recruiting rank) and is average at best.  Has he made some shots?  Sure, but it seems like for every positive thing he does out there he makes a bonehead move.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Funny how similar their stats are while one player (with slightly better numbers) was the fans' whipping boy and the other is the savior.

Yea, I don't know if that has to do with name recognition or what.

In Todd's defense, he's basically matching Buycks' numbers and still has 2 years of eligibility left. He has some upside.

However, right now (2013), Mayo is Buycks... which is why people should set their expectations accordingly.

[NersEllenson]

Yea, I don't know if that has to do with name recognition or what.

In Todd's defense, he's basically matching Buycks' numbers and still has 2 years of eligibility left. He has some upside.

However, right now (2013), Mayo is Buycks... which is why people should set their expectations accordingly.

So we are comparing a Junior and Senior Dwight Buycks with a Freshman and Sophomore Todd Mayo (and a sophomore who missed an entire summer and fall with the team due to his own self inflicted problems)?  Okay. 

Interesting to look at Lockett compared to Mayo and Buycks.  Mayo simply is better than Lockett...and would give more production than Lockett does if he gets Lockett kind of minutes per game.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=trent-lockett&dwight-buycks=career&i=1&p1=todd-mayo&p2=dwight-buycks&todd-mayo=2012-2013

[MerrittsMustache]

So we are comparing a Junior and Senior Dwight Buycks with a Freshman and Sophomore Todd Mayo (and a sophomore who missed an entire summer and fall with the team due to his own self inflicted problems)?  Okay. 

Interesting to look at Lockett compared to Mayo and Buycks.  Mayo simply is better than Lockett...and would give more production than Lockett does if he gets Lockett kind of minutes per game.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=trent-lockett&dwight-buycks=career&i=1&p1=todd-mayo&p2=dwight-buycks&todd-mayo=2012-2013

Did you even bother to look at anything besides scoring/shooting? All other categories give the advantage to Lockett. The numbers don't really matter though. Buzz knows this team better than any of us and if Mayo was simply better than Lockett, he'd be playing more than Lockett.

[MU82]

Todd and Jamil should be playing 40min!

What, and take all of Jake's time?

[MU82]

I think the most disappointing have to be the other two mentioned Anderson and Lockett. Anderson is shooting below 37% for the year and Lockett is just under 39%, his worst season FG% was his Freshman year at ASU and that was just below 49%, not sure where his shot has gone. He also has gone from 41% 3's to 28% this year.

They don't play D in the Pac-12. If you can't shoot 49%, you should be cut!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So we are comparing a Junior and Senior Dwight Buycks with a Freshman and Sophomore Todd Mayo (and a sophomore who missed an entire summer and fall with the team due to his own self inflicted problems)?  Okay.  

Interesting to look at Lockett compared to Mayo and Buycks.  Mayo simply is better than Lockett...and would give more production than Lockett does if he gets Lockett kind of minutes per game.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=trent-lockett&dwight-buycks=career&i=1&p1=todd-mayo&p2=dwight-buycks&todd-mayo=2012-2013

Don't get your feathers ruffled.

Please read EXACTLY what I wrote (the whole thing):

Yea, I don't know if that has to do with name recognition or what.

In Todd's defense, he's basically matching Buycks' numbers and still has 2 years of eligibility left. He has some upside.

However, right now (2013), Mayo is Buycks... which is why people should set their expectations accordingly.

I'm not comparing their careers, just saying that right now, Todd is very similar to Dwight Buycks.

That's not a slight on either kid.

Also, if you want to get into details, Dwight played at MU when he was 20 and 21. Todd Mayo entered MU at: 20, and is currently 21.

[MUMonster03]

They don't play D in the Pac-12. If you can't shoot 49%, you should be cut!

Don't get to watch a lot of PAC-12 ball since the games are on late and they haven't got much national attention but the fall off still surprises me even with better defense thats more than 10% dropoff.

[Clam Crowder]

If Mayo played over Trent I think we would get absolutely destroyed on the boards. Trent does alot of the little things and he does them well. He does some frustrating things but he needs to be out there for better or worse because of his defense and rebounding.

[Lennys Tap]

If Mayo played over Trent I think we would get absolutely destroyed on the boards. Trent does alot of the little things and he does them well. He does some frustrating things but he needs to be out there for better or worse because of his defense and rebounding.

Your point is well taken, and it extends to the team in general. We have a really solid #2 in Blue. Add DWilson's defense to Junior for a solid PG, Lockett"s size/rebounding to Mayo for a solid 3 and some of Juan's passion to JWilson for a solid 4. At the 5, we have one guy who"s really good offensively and one who's just OK on O but pretty good on D. These guys aren't mid majors, but they're not All Americans either. Every game Buzz has to juggle the misfit toys the best he can, and so far it's going better than most of us expected.

[NersEllenson]

If Mayo played over Trent I think we would get absolutely destroyed on the boards. Trent does alot of the little things and he does them well. He does some frustrating things but he needs to be out there for better or worse because of his defense and rebounding.

Buzz has Lockett crashing the boards at this time and Blue rotating back on D and as an outlet on O.  He'd flip it, if he started to play Mayo more than Lockett - whereby Blue becomes the crash the boards guard, and Todd becomes an outlet on O, and defender rotating back on D.  Last year Vander had a role where he crashed the boards more - similar to Lockett's this year...and that is the reason his rebounding numbers are down this year.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Buzz has Lockett crashing the boards at this time and Blue rotating back on D and as an outlet on O.  He'd flip it, if he started to play Mayo more than Lockett - whereby Blue becomes the crash the boards guard, and Todd becomes an outlet on O, and defender rotating back on D.  Last year Vander had a role where he crashed the boards more - similar to Lockett's this year...and that is the reason his rebounding numbers are down this year.

Are you saying that Vander's lack of rebounding this year is due to a position change?

I don't think this guy would agree with that:

How do you reconcile (or make excuses as you always do for Vander) for his lack of rebounding, assists and blocks this year?  He's improved 1000 fold offensively (thank God), but has fallen off significantly in the areas that were his only redeeming areas his first 2 season - defense and rebounding.

[slingkong]

This was hashed and rehashed last week or so. Sultan is more or less correct on this one, IMO - Jamil is what he is. He's not necessarily underperforming based on his potential; he's underperforming based on our expectations. It's not mental weaknesses or physical limitations holding him back. He just doesn't seem to have that fire that one needs to really step up. MJ and Black Mamba had/have a fire to win. Jamil is a nice as hell guy that everyone just really wants to do well.

[NersEllenson]

Are you saying that Vander's lack of rebounding this year is due to a position change?

I don't think this guy would agree with that:

Agh....you got me Guns....but it also shows...... you've got issues.  Remind me the next time I search your post history for a bad point you made 40+ days ago.  Petty...but I expect it from you.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Agh....you got me Guns....but it also shows...... you've got issues.  Remind me the next time I search your post history for a bad point you made 40+ days ago.  Petty...but I expect it from you.

I remembered that you were very critical of Vander's rebounding. 5min search history. Done.

[NersEllenson]

I remembered that you were very critical of Vander's rebounding. 5min search history. Done.

Creepy.  Even for you.

[MerrittsMustache]

This was hashed and rehashed last week or so. Sultan is more or less correct on this one, IMO - Jamil is what he is. He's not necessarily underperforming based on his potential; he's underperforming based on our expectations. It's not mental weaknesses or physical limitations holding him back. He just doesn't seem to have that fire that one needs to really step up. MJ and Black Mamba had/have a fire to win. Jamil is a nice as hell guy that everyone just really wants to do well.

I agreed completely until the bolded part. It's not a matter of fire, it's a matter of skill. Jamil wants to win just as much as anybody else on that roster. He just doesn't currently have the ability to put this team on his back and carry them to a W. Put another way, Jake Thomas may have more fire than any player in college basketball, but that doesn't mean he'd be able to take over a Big East road game.

[MUMonster03]

Can someone bookmark this thread? Because next season everyone will have raised expectations for him again. I have recently excepted him for what he is, 20-25 minutes and 8-10 points.

[Henry Sugar]

Just to repost this again regarding Jamil. He has been better this year than last year. The key differences are that Jamil finished very strong at the end of last year, AND this year Jamil has had a number of very bad games.

[tower912]

The other thing comparing this year to last is that last year Jae and DJO were the two leaders.   They were going to get their 35-40, the rest of the team would combine for 35-40.   If JWilson had a 2 pt game, as long as he didn't foul out, it didn't matter. 

[MUMonster03]

Just to repost this again regarding Jamil. He has been better this year than last year. The key differences are that Jamil finished very strong at the end of last year, AND this year Jamil has had a number of very bad games.

Not trying to be a jerk but I must have missed this. What is this a chart of? Is it some type of game score since it goes negative?

[Henry Sugar]

Not trying to be a jerk but I must have missed this. What is this a chart of? Is it some type of game score since it goes negative?

It's an advanced stats look at how much an individual player contributed to the margin of victory or loss. For example, Marquette beat DePaul by eleven points. Jamil was a positive contributor to that margin of victory (+1.1 net pts). Marquette beat USF at home by thirteen points, but it was done in spite of Jamil's on-court contributions (-2.1 net pts), and mostly due to Vander exploding in that game (+10.7 net pts)

I like to look at it for the overall trends and to get a feel for if a player is a general net positive or net negative contributor.

In general, the better players on the team have the greatest amount of net points and positive net point games. For example, Jae and DJO were +165 and +108 net points last year, respectively. You can also put that in perspective of where Jamil was last year (+3.5) and is now this year (+13)

[jmayer1]

Creepy.  Even for you.

I remembered you said it as well, as I disagreed with the comment at the time. I would have posted something had Guns not beat me to it. Maybe you're just upset that your foot doesn't taste too good.

[MUMonster03]

It's an advanced stats look at how much an individual player contributed to the margin of victory or loss. For example, Marquette beat DePaul by eleven points. Jamil was a positive contributor to that margin of victory (+1.1 net pts). Marquette beat USF at home by thirteen points, but it was done in spite of Jamil's on-court contributions (-2.1 net pts), and mostly due to Vander exploding in that game (+10.7 net pts)

I like to look at it for the overall trends and to get a feel for if a player is a general net positive or net negative contributor.

In general, the better players on the team have the greatest amount of net points and positive net point games. For example, Jae and DJO were +165 and +108 net points last year, respectively. You can also put that in perspective of where Jamil was last year (+3.5) and is now this year (+13)

Thanks. Didn't see your other post until after this one that had it for some of the other guys. Good info.

[NersEllenson]

I remembered you said it as well, as I disagreed with the comment at the time. I would have posted something had Guns not beat me to it. Maybe you're just upset that your foot doesn't taste too good.

Nah...not upset....just find it childish and petty to search through people's post histories, or throw something out months and years later to point out foot in the mouth moments/points.  Anyone who has more than 30 posts on this site is likely going to have some foot in the mouth/bad point moments....you included....but I'm not going to be a child about it and go rehash dumb points you -- or Guns - for that matter have made over the years. 

[Sunbelt15]

This was hashed and rehashed last week or so. Sultan is more or less correct on this one, IMO - Jamil is what he is. He's not necessarily underperforming based on his potential; he's underperforming based on our expectations. It's not mental weaknesses or physical limitations holding him back. He just doesn't seem to have that fire that one needs to really step up. MJ and Black Mamba had/have a fire to win. Jamil is a nice as hell guy that everyone just really wants to do well.

In other words, he's a average player. I feel the same way.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Nah...not upset....just find it childish and petty to search through people's post histories, or throw something out months and years later to point out foot in the mouth moments/points.  Anyone who has more than 30 posts on this site is likely going to have some foot in the mouth/bad point moments....you included....but I'm not going to be a child about it and go rehash dumb points you -- or Guns - for that matter have made over the years. 

I used your own words to illustrate a point.

It took about 5min. to find your post from about a month ago.

I don't think holding people accountable for what they say is childish.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 

[NersEllenson]

I used your own words to illustrate a point.

It took about 5min. to find your post from about a month ago.

I don't think holding people accountable for what they say is childish.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I think being able to admit one is wrong (as I've done numerous times on this board regarding Vander) is far more adult, than your "accountability" quests. 

I certainly agree to disagree.

[Stretchdeltsig]

We just want to see Jamil play stronger to dominate in games.  He has all the tools to dominate.  A "dominator" is a "difference maker" and a "go to guy."  Come on Jamil!!!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think being able to admit one is wrong (as I've done numerous times on this board regarding Vander) is far more adult, than your "accountability" quests. 

I certainly agree to disagree.

Just to clarify my point, I didn't dig up your post because you were wrong (we are all wrong from time to time), but rather because you seem to be change your opinion to fit the debate. 

- When discussing Vander and DJ Newbill, you were highly critical of Vander's rebounding.

- When discussing Todd vs Trent Lockett, you imply that Vander's reduced rebounding is simply a positional issue that would change if Vander played SF and Todd played SG.

I'm busting your balls because you've changed your stance and attributed it to Vander's position. Problem is, Vander has been playing the same positional all year.

[tower912]

He showed up today and showed why some of us with overly high expectations for him.   He plays the rest of the year like he did against Pitt today and MU will be dangerous.   He and Blue played complete games.   And afterward, Blue called him the most talented player on the team.   

[warriorstrack]

Jamil was in the house

[NotAnAlum]

He showed up today and showed why some of us with overly high expectations for him.   He plays the rest of the year like he did against Pitt today and MU will be dangerous.   He and Blue played complete games.   And afterward, Blue called him the most talented player on the team.   

Did he ever.  And while the dunks were flashy I was more impressed with the way he hustled on defense.  One time I saw him double team a guy out at the 3 point line and when the ball reversed hustle down to the baseline in time to get a block on a baseline drive.  AND played extended minutes without fouling.  Didn't get his first foul until the game was pretty much over.  If Jamil plays like that MU will be a very difficult out.

[MU82]

Really liked the way Jamil confidently stepped into his shots when he was open but otherwise didn't force things on offense. He also was engaged defensively and on the boards.

As a result, Buzz rewarded him with 33 minutes, most on the team.

[Goose]

Jamil played well. I really think he is a guy who needs minutes to get into the flow. Was happy to see the playing time yesterday.

[jsglow]

Jamil played well. I really think he is a guy who needs minutes to get into the flow. Was happy to see the playing time yesterday.

He can't get minutes when he commits 2 fouls 40 feet from the basket in 4 minutes of first half action.  Yesterday was a complete reversal of that.  I remember commenting when he got his very first foul very late in the contest.  and my recollection is that it was no cheapo.  Jamil played an outstanding game.  My sincere hope is that he continues to learn to use his feet on D.  Remember how Jae would get in quick foul trouble as a Junior and then blossomed?

[Goose]

jsglow

Agreed. But I think even with quick fouls he still can get more action. He can sit on bench for most of first half with two fouls or play on. I think we better team with him on floor, especially when he is playing well.

[tower912]

When JWil is on his game, MU is a much better team.   But Buzz will not play him in the first half with 2 fouls.   Not when Juan and STjr bring the energy they do.   

[Sunbelt15]

Can someone bookmark this thread? Because next season everyone will have raised expectations for him again. I have recently excepted him for what he is, 20-25 minutes and 8-10 points.

You should expect a player to better his game season to season. Especially when your the team captain and leader.