Scholarship table
How about Buzz? As noted in the first post, daily ratings started in 2011. So, unless I get more data from KenPom, I only have the last four seasons of Buzz.Note from 2012 to 2014, the season-by-season rankings were going higher (worsening). This means that Buzz hit a ceiling on his recruiting in 2012. But that ceiling was a top 10 program. Never the less, recruiting worsened after 2012.
It’s also the reason why there is a rift in the fan base on expectations. Some feel we should be a Top 10 program. Others are happy with a .500 BE record and making the field of 64. The BOT has determined the latter is the direction...and they have rewarded Wojo twice for doing just that with extensions. It’s really that simple. It was a bet on the Duke model.
I disagree with two big assumptions/implications here (which get repeated over and over): 1) That the only way for MU to be a Top 10 program is to lower its standards for admissions, academics or off-court issues; and 2) That the board/fans are "happy with a .500 BE record and making the field of 64"For starters, most Top 10 programs don't depend on junior college transfers to the degree that Buzz Williams did at Marquette. In fact, he had an unusual run of success over the course of four seasons (between 2008-09 and 2011-12) with recruits like Jimmy Butler, Darius Johnson-Odom, Dwight Buycks and Jae Crowder. It's fair to say he hasn't approached that level since.Beyond that, Villanova -- a private, Catholic university ranked among the Top 100 nationally just like Marquette -- has managed to win two national titles while maintaining a perfect 1000 APR score for academics.https://villanova.com/news/2018/5/23/Villanova_Student_Athletes_Make_the_Grade_in_Latest_APR_Data.aspxFinally, Wojo getting an extension doesn't mean the board or fans have no higher expectations than simply making the NCAA tournament. Clearly, he's met baseline expectations/metrics so far. But I, for one, along with every single MU fan I know, want and expect postseason success.Who really believes the only two alternatives are either "Let things slide a little with Buzz and win" or "Run a clean program and be mediocre"? To me, that's a false choice.
As for Wojo? I personally don't think a coach could have done a worse job his first two years at MU,
Thanks for taking the time to chart all of this data. No doubt Buzz's last year at MU was a complete outlier. In his 11 years at MU and VaTech, that 2014 team was his 2nd worst - with only his Year 1 team at VaTech being worse (which he inherited a team that went 2-16 in the ACC the prior year.)As for Wojo? I personally don't think a coach could have done a worse job his first two years at MU, so, he set the bar awfully low for showing improvement. Will be interesting to see how he fares next season without the generational player, Markus, on the roster. On the positive, he will have had 6 full years of experience to learn from.
Larry Williams start date: 1/2/2012. Before Cheeks steps in with another New Testament chapter, factually, there is no denying things changed dramatically in the type of kid allowed to enter MU athletic teams at that time. It’s why Wojo is here and Buzz isn’t. These changes took Buzz out of his recruiting network and were the reason he left. It isn’t a Buzz vs. Wojo linear comparison. The university changed and Wojo fit the new profile.
It’s also the reason why there is a rift in the fan base on expectations. Some feel we should be a Top 10 program. Others are happy with a .500 BE record and making the field of 64.
Except next year's class is one of the best incoming classes in MU history, the highest-rated BE class and a top 10 overall class by some measures.How did this happen given your argument?
Larry Williams start date: 1/2/2012. Before Cheeks steps in with another New Testament chapter, factually, there is no denying things changed dramatically in the type of kid allowed to enter MU athletic teams at that time. It’s why Wojo is here and Buzz isn’t. These changes took Buzz out of his recruiting network and were the reason he left. It isn’t a Buzz vs. Wojo linear comparison. The university changed and Wojo fit the new profile.It’s also the reason why there is a rift in the fan base on expectations. Some feel we should be a Top 10 program. Others are happy with a .500 BE record and making the field of 64. The BOT has determined the latter is the direction...and they have rewarded Wojo twice for doing just that with extensions. It’s really that simple. It was a bet on the Duke model.
Bill Chandler: 11-7 & 11-8Tex Winter: 12-14 & 13-11Jack Nagle: 11-15 & 24-3Eddie Hickey: 23-6 & 13-12Al McGuire: 8-18 & 14-12Bob Dukiet: 6-13 & 10-18Kevin O'Neil: 15-14 & 11-18Tom Crean: 15-14 & 15:14Wojo: 13-19 & 20-13Plenty of coaches did worse and with much easier schedules
Dr....I agree with most of this post until some of the last paragraph. It's not that people are "happy" with a .500 BE record and making the field. I think some of us have higher standards that believe we can recruit a certain way AND do well...it's not an either or choice. The challenge is that it cannot be done overnight and will take a massive cultural change and years of getting those types of kids to do it properly. Requires patience. And yes, it causes a rift, but if it works the upside is fantastic for the school and program. Will people have the patience?
I never said I agreed or disagreed. I said the fan base is split this way which is why we have Groundhog Day on Scoop everyday.That said, at least 50% of KPom’s Top 20 are well-known or highly rumored cheaters. If the NCAA lived its mission, we’d have higher odds of collecting the Golden Ticket. Until then, we are Duke without the jeweler.
My post was speaking real time. As in the day Wojo walked into the MU job. Of course I knew there were coaches at MU who turned in worse records their first two years. Wojo’s coaching and decision-making were atrocious Years 1 and 2. He’s improved some since that time.
Good stuff on both of these. Culture is a tough thing to change and takes a lot of effort and consistency over time.A friend of mine (talking business over the weekend) said the quick solution is more often than not an unethical solution.Take the time to build it right!
Marquettes jeweler is starting to get better quality gems. I agree with the Duke analogy, and who better to recreate Dukes culture, playing style, and success at Marquette, than someone who lived it for a large portion of his life.
Your friends comment could apply to so many important issues in the world today. It was an obvious yet profound statement.
Year 2 when he won 20 games? If that's atrocious then sign me up to stay on board for when he puts together full seasons of good decision making plus better talent.