Was Your College Degree Worth It's Cost?

[dgies9156]

In the First Jobs discussion was an interesting sub-string on college costs and on the value of college education. So, the question is, "Was it worth the costs?"

I'll start and say absolutely! I have an undergraduate Journalism degree from MU and later earned an MBA from Loyola of Chicago. The earnings I've had since I finished my MBA could never have been accomplished without a BA and MBA. Never.

The problem for college degrees is a traditional present value equation. A student lays out an investment in college, which given Brother Sultan's Chart, on average should be about $25,000 to $35,000 annually (much higher for a rack rate Marquette education). The benefit accrues over time, so to overcome the time value of money associated with an upfront cost and delayed gratification, the benefit in the outlying years must be enormous. Benefit is calculated by estimating the compensation of college grad in your field less what you would earn as an apprentice and later fully licensed tradesman or tradeswoman.

As tuition gets bigger, the benefit gets smaller over time.

At days end, college is more than a sophisticated trade school. While there has to be a goal, there's a lot of things taught in college that have nothing to do with a profession or technical training. They're things that make a person more rounded and better equipped to deal with the challenges they'll face in the world.

[Pakuni]

This may depend on how one determines value, which in this case is going to vary from person to person.

In terms of just finances, college was probably about a wash for me. I wouldn't have the job/career I have now without a degree. But had I dropped out and stuck with the job I worked during college breaks, I probably would have done about as well financially (accounting for loans, etc.) and had better benefits.

That said, I would have missed out on so many great lessons, experiences, friendships and more that make college, as dgies puts it, more than a sophisticated trade school.
So, all in all, college was worth it for me.

[Galway Eagle]

Right out of college? Nope not even close, and my wife would say the same regarding her MU education degree. That said it was MU's name that helped me get into NUIG and my undergrad degree combined with my masters it allowed me to move up two levels rather quick after a career change. For my wife I think she'd say her math degree from MU was worth it now that she no longer teaches. For the logic, understanding of Econ, philosophy, life experiences it was 100% worth it to me. My BIL, FIL, SIL, sister and best friend can't seem to debate without pathos (though that happens here as well).

That said I'm 33 and everyone who didn't go to post grad or get extremely successful in sales is only now making more than what my trades high school friends and associates in nursing friends have been making for a decade.

[Scoop Snoop]

.

At days end, college is more than a sophisticated trade school. While there has to be a goal, there's a lot of things taught in college that have nothing to do withy a profession or a technical training. They're things that make a person more rounded and better equipped to deal with the challenges they'll face in the world.

Glad that you added what I bolded. Both on a personal and business decision making level, it is so true.

[MU82]

That said, I would have missed out on so many great lessons, experiences, friendships and more that make college, as dgies puts it, more than a sophisticated trade school.
So, all in all, college was worth it for me.

This, and then some.

I met my wife of 40 years at Marquette; I met the guys who are still my very best friends at Marquette; I had experiences I'll never forget at Marquette; I got my first job, in my field of study, due to Marquette connections.

Worth every penny to me and more.

My wife ended up changing careers and had to go back to school. Professionally, she got very little "value" from her Marquette degree. But again, she met me - and that's priceless! - and most of her best friends at MU.

And the same goes for my kids and the pretty expensive colleges they attended. I don't know how much "value" they got, but I think they'd agree that the experiences there helped them become the people they are today.

[GB Warrior]

I met my wife at MU so all of the money I spent for my degree was actually a down payment to spend the rest of my money

[Scoop Snoop]

I met my wife at MU so all of the money I spent for my degree was actually a down payment to spend the rest of my money

I came so close to proposing to my MU girlfriend. Way back then, checks, not credit cards were king. A bank closed her account for bouncing way too many checks and kicked her out.    OK, there were other reasons why I changed my mind at the very last moment, but I will say no more.

So glad for both MU82 and you. One of my brothers met his wife at Marquette. They celebrated their 54th anniversary last November.

 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Without MU, we wouldn't have this friendly, non-judgmental, rational, intellectual, and safe/welcoming Scoop community in common.

[BrewCity83]

Yes, my MU degree was well worth it just based on career earnings alone that wouldn't have been likely without my Business degree.  I graduated in '83, so I think my four year tuition was only around $20K total.  Having said that, I could have probably earned about the same had I gotten a similar degree from a cheaper school (say UW-Whitewater).  The experiences, friendships, well-rounded liberal arts education I got was all gravy.

[dgies9156]

I met my wife of 40 years at Marquette.

Met my wife in Spanish class. Both Journalism majors. Tall, thin woman from Iowa with a big smile and sharp mind. Caught my eye almost immediately.

47 years later, we've been married for 43 years.

She's still special!

[tower912]

The Jesuit influence made me a better person.   Learning history, political science, philosophy, and theology are wonderful things.   
    Financially, not a bit.  I always did well on standardized tests.  In 1983, I scored 1430 on the SAT and 30 on the ACT.   In 1989, I wrote 14th out of 1200 on the FD entrance exam.  I could have skipped college and applied 5 years earlier, right after I turned 18, had that been my plan.

I was engaged to my MU girlfriend.  She broke off the engagement because I did not care about money as much as she did.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Met my wife in Spanish class. Both Journalism majors. Tall, thin woman from Iowa with a big smile and sharp mind. Caught my eye almost immediately.

47 years later, we've been married for 43 years.

She's still special!

The woman is a saint.

[MU82]

Without MU, we wouldn't have this friendly, non-judgmental, rational, intellectual, and safe/welcoming Scoop community in common.

What an idiotic thing to say.

[lawdog77]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiqKK4ysI7g

[dgies9156]

The woman is a saint.

No argument, Doc.

[NCMUFan]

Went to Grad School at Marquette.
Was teaching and research assistant.  Free tuition with stipend (enough to pay rent and groceries).
MU is golden to me.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

No. Marquette business didn’t teach enough CRT

[rocky_warrior]

Absolutely! 

Then again, as a software engineer, I think any EE/CE grad w/debt even today would say that 25 years into their career.

[JWags85]

I have a semi-unique perspective from the common Millennial college experience cause I nearly got booted from my Alma Mater after my freshman year due to academics and was rewarded with a much needed and deserved “semester abroad” back home in the Milwaukee suburbs.  I wasn’t a big partier, I actually partied more often and harder later in my college career when I did MUCH better academically. It was just the downtime of playing video games with friends, watching movies, shooting the sh** when I should have been reading or studying.

 worked basically full time between a catering/bartending job and running youth soccer camps/teams while I took a couple community college courses. My best friend from childhood was a freshman at Marquette so I had a social life and overall it was 6 months that would be pretty indicative of what life would have been like if I didn’t go away to a 4 year school.  It tremendously motivated me to go back to the same school, not to start over at a new university, and commit myself like I should have from the start.

At that point, I became a completely changed person.  Maturation wise, emotionally, confidence wise, found myself intellectually, etc… What I gained over the next 3.5 years was worth every penny.

Graduating in 2008 into a BLEAK job market, my degree didn’t do much in finding me a quality well paying job, but the person I became in achieving that degree certainly played a huge part in getting through it, building a network, and then allowing me to blossom when I finally got into a good position professionally.  I only have 1 friend my high school days, only actually regularly speak to 1-2 friends I made organically in my decade living in Chicago, but have at least a half dozen friends from college that I speak to at a minimum once a week and see a few times a year despite not living within 2 hours of any of them anymore.

I think the cost benefit value of college has greatly changed.  Even though I did it, I think there is very little value in paying big-ish premiums for going out of state for a non-“prestige” university.  I don’t think my experience was unique to my school, and I could have certainly gotten it at other schools.  So I absolutely see the value of learning and growing while away at school, but also acknowledge and realize it should be done in a financially feasible and responsible way.

[Skatastrophy]

Absolutely! 

Then again, as a software engineer, I think any EE/CE grad w/debt even today would say that 25 years into their career.

+1, with an engineering degree they always assume I can tackle every problem in front of me. Haven't had an engineering role for 10+ years but I still bring it up and it gives me credibility in conversations.

[Goose]

100% because I married the Dean’s daughter and she actually took advantage of her degree. Double win for me. Plus, I married into a family that I continue to learn from on a weekly basis. Biggest lesson learned, I can learn from someone who has very different beliefs than I do.

When my Father in law was still alive I spent countless, and I mean countless hours, drinking wine and learning from him.
That dining room was the second best classroom in my life, only behind watching my Dad at work for many, many years.

[Jay Bee]

My privilege is the only thing getting me by.

My chosen field now has a 150 hour requirement, but that was installed after my time. So I might be dumb for my field, but the education that I did experience was 100% required.

Gotta run and make this Hot Pocket to go with my Member’s Mark chips before Pickleball. #FineDining #RichInCarbs #Educated

[MuggsyB]

The Jesuit influence made me a better person.   Learning history, political science, philosophy, and theology are wonderful things.   
    Financially, not a bit.  I always did well on standardized tests.  In 1983, I scored 1430 on the SAT and 30 on the ACT.   In 1989, I wrote 14th out of 1200 on the FD entrance exam.  I could have skipped college and applied 5 years earlier, right after I turned 18, had that been my plan.

I was engaged to my MU girlfriend.  She broke off the engagement because I did not care about money as much as she did.

So it had no financial significance because of your SAT scores?  Perhaps those who do well on the ACT/SAT should forego college if they're not wealthy?

[tower912]

It had no financial impact as I ended up where I would have ended up had I simply written the FD test in 1984-5.    I am a better person, not a richer person.

[MU82]

I actually partied more often and harder later in my college career when I did MUCH better academically.

Absolute proof that college students, partying hard is academically helpful!

[Scoop Snoop]

It had no financial impact as I ended up where I would have ended up had I simply written the FD test in 1984-5.    I am a better person, not a richer person.

Marquette was life-changing for me in a very good way. I really get what you said. While it was also worth it for financial reasons-way back then, almost any college degree was a ticket to a good job-without Marquette my life would have been very different, and probably not in a good way. I'll leave it at that.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Sadly, I believe that save for a few majors ,like Engineering, most degrees are not worth the tuition these days.

[MU1in77]

Met my wife in Spanish class. Both Journalism majors. Tall, thin woman from Iowa with a big smile and sharp mind. Caught my eye almost immediately.

47 years later, we've been married for 43 years.

She's still special!

I met my bride of 42 years at the Ardmore in 1978 and to this day she swears we never went on an actual date. I had friends and roommates who tended bar there so it was meet you at the Ardmore and we can drink for free.

[Pakuni]

Sadly, I believe that save for a few majors ,like Engineering, most degrees are not worth the tuition these days.

Tell that to a successful lawyer, CEO, accountant, etc.

[rocky_warrior]

Tell that to a successful lawyer, CEO, accountant, etc.

Honestly I think anyone that attends college with a specific career in mind would probably say yes.  People who get a degree without having a plan for after the degree, are probably more in the no camp.

Of course, it appears many here attended Marquette to get the Mr. degree, and are satisfied with that. 

[tower912]

Honestly I think anyone that attends college with a specific career in mind would probably say yes.  People who get a degree without having a plan for after the degree, are probably more in the no camp.

Great point.   


Look how much you've made moderating scoop.

[Scoop Snoop]

Honestly I think anyone that attends college with a specific career in mind would probably say yes.  People who get a degree without having a plan for after the degree, are probably more in the no camp.

Of course, it appears many here attended Marquette to get the Mr. degree, and are satisfied with that. 

Agree in most cases. However, I have known former attorneys who left their practices and went into different lines of work. One bought a company that has rock climbing walls. He loves it and has no regrets leaving his law career behind. I also know a couple who met in med school. He teaches at UVA med school, but she never used her degree. Although these are not MU grads, I wonder how some ex engineers, nurses, etc. might respond to the OP's question.

[Jay Bee]

Its cost vs. it’s cost

[rocky_warrior]

Agree in most cases. However, I have known former attorneys who left their practices and went into different lines of work. One bought a company that has rock climbing walls. He loves it and has no regrets leaving his law career behind. I also know a couple who met in med school. He teaches at UVA med school, but she never used her degree. Although these are not MU grads, I wonder how some ex engineers, nurses, etc. might respond to the OP's question.

Oh for sure.  One of my good friends (I also recruited him to my company) started in software (actually, math major, but no matta), decided he'd rather do IP Law, got hit JD, decided he hated lawyers, and came back to software.  At this point, his JD was not worth the money (though it did find him a wife...a common theme here).  Though recently he's considered going back to take the Bar - since his wife just launched her own practice.

Overall though, in his case, the education has "paid off" even if he didn't use it.

[dgies9156]

I actually did an analysis on the cost of my undergraduate and graduate degrees, comparing my actual compensation to an estimated compensation from a skilled trade. I did an annual cash flow analysis and estimated the IRR on my MU/Loyola degrees is 15.91 percent. I assumed a 45 year career, two promotions/job changes and 3 percent to 4 percent annual compensation adjustments.

The break-even on a discounted cash flow assuming a 10 percent weighted average cost of capital ("WACC"), was 17.5 years. That includes tossing in the cost of an MBA.

[Scoop Snoop]

I actually did an analysis on the cost of my undergraduate and graduate degrees, comparing my actual compensation to an estimated compensation from a skilled trade. I did an annual cash flow analysis and estimated the IRR on my MU/Loyola degrees is 15.91 percent. I assumed a 45 year career, two promotions/job changes and 3 percent to 4 percent annual compensation adjustments.

The break-even on a discounted cash flow assuming a 10 percent weighted average cost of capital ("WACC"), was 17.5 years. That includes tossing in the cost of an MBA.

My Gawd dgies! You and my wife would make great business partners. She was a CPA (let it expire after retiring) and has a passion for spreadsheets and intricate, mind-numbing financial analysis. We are currently looking into buying another car. There are stacks of paper around the house analyzing the various options.

[Galway Eagle]

3 percent to 4 percent annual compensation adjustments.

This is a big assumption. there hasn't been a compensation adjustment in 3yrs at my job.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I actually did an analysis on the cost of my undergraduate and graduate degrees, comparing my actual compensation to an estimated compensation from a skilled trade. I did an annual cash flow analysis and estimated the IRR on my MU/Loyola degrees is 15.91 percent. I assumed a 45 year career, two promotions/job changes and 3 percent to 4 percent annual compensation adjustments.

The break-even on a discounted cash flow assuming a 10 percent weighted average cost of capital ("WACC"), was 17.5 years. That includes tossing in the cost of an MBA.

I bet you are fun at a cocktail party. Dear lord, your better half is more saintly than Mother Teresa.

[dgies9156]

I bet you are fun at a cocktail party. Dear lord, your better half is more saintly than Mother Teresa.

She’s the creative type!

And yes, I'm an absolute delight at any party!

[ATL MU Warrior]

My Gawd dgies! You and my wife would make great business partners. She was a CPA (let it expire after retiring) and has a passion for spreadsheets and intricate, mind-numbing financial analysis. We are currently looking into buying another car. There are stacks of paper around the house analyzing the various options.

Paper?!?!

[muwarrior69]

For me absolutely yes. Marquette was a great value and that was paying full freight (Tuition, Books, Lab fees and Room & Board 12k). Starting salary was 9K with a BS in Chemistry and Biology right out of school. It is my understanding full freight at MU today would be about 220K. Today a grad would have to have starting salary of about 160k to be equivalent to mine. So sad that college costs are so out of reach for so many and missing out on the college experience like so many here have had at Marquette.

I can afford to send my Grand Daughter to Marquette, but why when she can get just as good of an education here in New Jersey at a much lower cost.

[Scoop Snoop]

Paper?!?!

Printed out from the computer. She dumps the info on the table next to my favorite chair, even though she knows I do not want to read it.

[dgies9156]

My Gawd dgies! You and my wife would make great business partners. She was a CPA (let it expire after retiring) and has a passion for spreadsheets and intricate, mind-numbing financial analysis. We are currently looking into buying another car. There are stacks of paper around the house analyzing the various options.

Brother Snoop:

We're going through the same thing. The lease on my wife's car is up in September and I've already calculated the wholesale value of the car against the residual against an entirely new vehicle.

When we went into a dealer in Chicago to lease for the first time, I told them what I wanted to lease. They gave me a number on the lease payment and I told them, uhh, your money factor is X, your expected residual is "y" and over a three year lease, total depreciation is "Z", so you're wildly off on payment. The idiot sales manager said, "huh" and I told him for what he was proposing, I'm going to the BMW or Lexus dealer (the car we leased was a Nissan).

I showed him what he could "really afford" and, surprise, surprise, I got what I wanted.

See Doc, I'm a hoot at cocktail parties!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I graduated and immediately went into a field that had nothing to with my major. So academically? Probably not. But I could not have been a successful adult without my four years at Marquette and I certainly wouldn't be the person I am today. In that sense, worth every penny.

[Scoop Snoop]

Brother Snoop:

See Doc, I'm a hoot at cocktail parties!

After Wednesday's fiasco, we need to have a little fun. I'm going to write a little fiction piece.

Rocky is throwing a great party and everyone is having fun. Unknown to Rocky, there are some scoopers in town and of course, they crash the party. The crashers include the Dgies and the Snoops. Rocky says "you're not going to believe this, but on the slippery roads this afternoon, Taylor Swift's limo rear ended me. She invited me into the limo for drinks and we chatted until the police arrived. What are the chances of something like that happening?"

Dgies and Mrs. Snoop immediately insist in determining what the chances are (and Rocky quickly realizes that he never should have told his story) and they team up. Mrs. Dgies and Snoop know what's coming....hours of cross-referencing statistics on spreadsheets by the two number crunchers. At 2:00 AM, Rocky lies and says "I really enjoyed meeting you, but umm...it's kinda late" They reply "But we'fe almost finished. Give us a couple more hours, OK?"

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I was doing FAFSA with the younger daughter today.  When I logged into my account that I need for her, it told me my student loans were paid off as of some month in 1993.  I guess it took me 2 years to pay off my loans.  I was surprised the student loan data goes back that far.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Sadly, I believe that save for a few majors ,like Engineering, most degrees are not worth the tuition these days.

There are a lot of things that you believe that are wildly inaccurate

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

I have a semi-unique perspective from the common Millennial college experience cause I nearly got booted from my Alma Mater after my freshman year due to academics and was rewarded with a much needed and deserved “semester abroad” back home in the Milwaukee suburbs.  I wasn’t a big partier, I actually partied more often and harder later in my college career when I did MUCH better academically. It was just the downtime of playing video games with friends, watching movies, shooting the sh** when I should have been reading or studying.

 worked basically full time between a catering/bartending job and running youth soccer camps/teams while I took a couple community college courses. My best friend from childhood was a freshman at Marquette so I had a social life and overall it was 6 months that would be pretty indicative of what life would have been like if I didn’t go away to a 4 year school.  It tremendously motivated me to go back to the same school, not to start over at a new university, and commit myself like I should have from the start.

At that point, I became a completely changed person.  Maturation wise, emotionally, confidence wise, found myself intellectually, etc… What I gained over the next 3.5 years was worth every penny.

Graduating in 2008 into a BLEAK job market, my degree didn’t do much in finding me a quality well paying job, but the person I became in achieving that degree certainly played a huge part in getting through it, building a network, and then allowing me to blossom when I finally got into a good position professionally.  I only have 1 friend my high school days, only actually regularly speak to 1-2 friends I made organically in my decade living in Chicago, but have at least a half dozen friends from college that I speak to at a minimum once a week and see a few times a year despite not living within 2 hours of any of them anymore.

I think the cost benefit value of college has greatly changed.  Even though I did it, I think there is very little value in paying big-ish premiums for going out of state for a non-“prestige” university.  I don’t think my experience was unique to my school, and I could have certainly gotten it at other schools.  So I absolutely see the value of learning and growing while away at school, but also acknowledge and realize it should be done in a financially feasible and responsible way.

We had an eerily similar start and ending to our college experiences minus the sabbatical. Working a summer at a restaurant made my grades skyrocket and my planning and organization got way better when I wanted to have free time to case race.

[tower912]

courtesy of my friend, lurch 91

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F72CmcZq0JM


Marquette bars, circa 1986

[JWags85]

Oh for sure.  One of my good friends (I also recruited him to my company) started in software (actually, math major, but no matta), decided he'd rather do IP Law, got hit JD, decided he hated lawyers, and came back to software.  At this point, his JD was not worth the money (though it did find him a wife...a common theme here).  Though recently he's considered going back to take the Bar - since his wife just launched her own practice.

Overall though, in his case, the education has "paid off" even if he didn't use it.

So it’s interesting, obviously YMMV but in terms of law school/lawyers/unhappiness, in my experience the majority of people who saw law school isn’t worth it are unhappy lawyers.  Conversely, off the top of my head I know 3 lawyers who left practicing.  One went to a decent West Coast school, the other 2 went to an Ivy and another top 10 law school. All left law firms/practices between 5-12 years out of law school.  One works for a family office cause his speciality was financial law.  Another works in management for a company.  The third is actually a sales lead/GM of Asia for my company.  All didn’t like being “lawyers” and working in law firms.  But all have at some point raved about law school, the experience they gained during it/becoming a lawyer, and how fundamental it is to their success after leaving practice 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

courtesy of my friend, lurch 91

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F72CmcZq0JM


Marquette bars, circa 1986

That was great!
Still very appropriate for 1987-1991.

[tower912]

The hair.  The wardrobe.   The terrible editing.   The prices of alcohol at the Mugrack.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The hair.  The wardrobe.   The terrible editing.   The prices of alcohol at the Mugrack.

Dark Years for the Gen Xers.

[tower912]

Dark Years for the Gen Xers.

Not the beer prices at the Mugrack.   

[Hards Alumni]

So it’s interesting, obviously YMMV but in terms of law school/lawyers/unhappiness, in my experience the majority of people who saw law school isn’t worth it are unhappy lawyers.  Conversely, off the top of my head I know 3 lawyers who left practicing.  One went to a decent West Coast school, the other 2 went to an Ivy and another top 10 law school. All left law firms/practices between 5-12 years out of law school.  One works for a family office cause his speciality was financial law.  Another works in management for a company.  The third is actually a sales lead/GM of Asia for my company.  All didn’t like being “lawyers” and working in law firms.  But all have at some point raved about law school, the experience they gained during it/becoming a lawyer, and how fundamental it is to their success after leaving practice

Ha, I dropped out of law school because I was disillusioned with the high likelihood that I'd be a defense lawyer.  Being in law school and going to class for two years was great, but I didn't love all the time spent in the library doing research... and then I realized that this was going to be my career.

Called it a day and moved in with my future wife and went to work at a Pharma lab for four years.  Everything seemed so less stressful and easier after having went to law school, but I just wish I could have all that tuition money back.   

[Coleman]

At the cost of 2004-2008 tuition plus a $8k a year scholarship, Marquette was worth it for me. Although my undergraduate degree did not have a huge impact on my current earnings (that was my Master's Degree at Loyola Chicago), I'd still say the experiences were worth it for me. I met my wife and many lifelong friends there.

Would it be worth it today, with current tuition? Hard to say. Tuition has more than doubled since then.

Assuming I'd still get into UW-Madison today, as I did in 2004, with in-state tuition, the economics might favor that decision. Sorry, blasphemy I know.

[pbiflyer]

Growing up in Florida, I never would have had Real Chili or Ed whites at the Lanche, so it was worth every penny.