[MJS Blog] The Maryland fallout. Where does MU fit? ACC?

[dgies9156]

As several posters said, the whole thing is about television and ratings. Maryland, if they jump, gives the Big 10 access to the Baltimore Washington market. Rutgers is the only legitimate football playing school even remotely affiliated with the New York market that's left. It's probably like using Carroll College to gain access to the Milwaukee market, but at least it is an opening.

The bigger question is, "what about us?" We're lumped in with Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Providence and Depaul. My guess is that as long as Cincinnati and Louisville stay with the Big East, we should too. With the aforementioned teams, plus UConn, we still have a very good conference. Memphis will make it better. Beyond that group, who really cares? We could jump to the ACC and follow Notre Dame in all sports but football, but would they have us and the teams in that conference just don't fit with our natural rivalries.

It's sad but the reality is times are changing and what we do at MU with basketball is the tail on the dog of college sports

[boyonthedock]

No, the big thing is not ratings. the big ten does not give a rats ass if anyone in new york turns the channel on, Just that the 30 million people now have big ten network on their cable packages, getting a nice hefty sum of cash from cable companies. 

[Benny B]

Nebraska was an AAU member up until 2 years ago. The only reason they were voted out is because they don't have a medical college on campus. Academically, they offer exactly what the B1G is looking for (though losing AAU status didn't win them any friends in the league).

In other words, it's the consolation prize that the Ivy schools made up to give non-Ivy schools a name to use to feel good about themselves, even though they still aren't Ivy.

Kind of like being a dash school.

[Benny B]

Whu would the B10 take MU as a member?  They already have the Milwaukee TV market with Bucky.  The ACC or B12 taking them as a non-football school to expand their reach would make more sense.

It would be a defensive move to solidify the Milwaukee and Chicago markets and prevent the ACC, Big 12 or SEC networks from ever getting a foothold in those markets.

In other words, it would be done not to increase ratings but to prevent future erosion of those ratings.

[ChicosBailBonds]

After reading their Wiki, its not even close. It reads more pretentious than a Notre Dame campus tour in the fall.

I don't know if pretentious is the right word, but academics should matter at a university.  The list of schools for the 62 that have made it have made tremendous contributions to society in research (medical, science, economics, etc).  MU doesn't fit the mold and that's fine.  We've made plenty of great contributions in other ways, we aren't a research institution and never will be.

Two schools, Syracuse and Nebraska are out as of 2011.  The remaining 62 are damn good.  Incidentally, the Ivy League does not have all their schools in the AAU.  Only the Big Ten had EVERY school in the AAU until Nebraska was pushed out.

As far as the comments about judging a school of conference based on their athletes, I'm not sure any school in the nation outside maybe 10 to 15 could survive that.

[🏀]

I don't know if pretentious is the right word, but academics should matter at a university.  The list of schools for the 62 that have made it have made tremendous contributions to society in research (medical, science, economics, etc).  MU doesn't fit the mold and that's fine.  We've made plenty of great contributions in other ways, we aren't a research institution and never will be.

Two schools, Syracuse and Nebraska are out as of 2011.  The remaining 62 are damn good.  Incidentally, the Ivy League does not have all their schools in the AAU.  Only the Big Ten had EVERY school in the AAU until Nebraska was pushed out.

As far as the comments about judging a school of conference based on their athletes, I'm not sure any school in the nation outside maybe 10 to 15 could survive that.

Academics should matter, but I loathe that 'research' needs to be a major factor at judging a school.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Maybe Chicos can help me out on this one, but does it even matter if people in New York start watching BTN due to Rutgers? I've read that as the Big Ten gets schools from more states, it allows for wider distribution for the network at their subscriber fee (I think $.80 per subscriber). So whether the team was watched or not, they'd be able to add BTN to a lot of households, thus getting a lot of money.

Hard to explain without some visuals but I'll do my best.  Territories are carved out by television distributors and content providers (Big Ten Network) to determine rates.  These are based primarily on zip codes, DMAs, states.  The "core" territories are those that will yield the highest rate for the content provider and the highest cost for the distributor.  In the case of the Big Ten, think of the states in which the Big Ten has a member school.  You are correct that by grabbing New Jersey, and thus the NY DMA, it expands their "core" territory and will mean more $$$ the next round of contract negotiations.  Of course, there are many of us on the distributor side that are putting our foot down as well because the costs are so out of control....see Pac 12 distribution as on example.  With the SEC coming online soon, it only gets worse.

So yes, going into that area does mean higher subscription fees because it will expand the core territory.  Without that state, a DMA like New York is relegated to a different tier which will yield a payment far lower than that.  The question that all distributors are dealing with right now is how much is too much.  We are all sports fans that are passionate about their sports and willing to pay for them, but we forget that far more people don't give a crap about sports than those that do.  Because all these networks demand wide distribution (i.e.  EYEBALLS for advertisers), they will not allow these networks to be sold only to people that actually want them.  So what happens is that if adding Rutgers to the Big Ten means a huge cost expenditure for Fios, ATT, Directv, Dish, Comcast, etc, etc that has to be passed on to all their customers, including grandma Jones on a fixed income who doesn't even know Rutgers exists let alone what the game of football is, that becomes problematic because the rate increases are getting so out of control.

It's a different world.  Dish has already basically pulled out of major DMAs like New York with their sports options.  The recent Lakers deal here in L.A. was a war between our company and them...DISH took a pass, some cable companies like Comcast still haven't reached a deal either.  So it will be a calculated move by the Big Ten to know they may pick up the largest DMA and the associated spoils that go along with it, but they may also lose distributorship as well.  Of course, the distributor will also lose subscribers over it, but if they feel those losses are less than the expenditures of signing on those channels, they will do it in a heartbeat.

I would add, as I had previously, opening up to New York is more than just television and $$$, it is also access to a huge population and recruiting base. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

No, the big thing is not ratings. the big ten does not give a rats ass if anyone in new york turns the channel on, Just that the 30 million people now have big ten network on their cable packages, getting a nice hefty sum of cash from cable companies.  

Ding ding.  The BTN charges a cable box whether a viewer watches or not.  But, what the BTN leaves on the table though, is ad revenue from ratings.  If Hunt is throwing it out there about MU, don't think Uncle Lar isn't working on a back up plan and feeding the beast? What would be a better ratings draw during sweeps week in February:  Northwestern vs. Iowa wrestling or MU basketball reruns?  There has been talks that the BTN is looking to buy content under the new BE TV deal...as part of a Fox or DTV deal.  

Maybe Larry is working a couple angles here.  A BE/B1G tv deal or adjunct memberships?  In LAX the B1G teams are few and join an adjunct conference themselves.  Other Olympic sports have limited memberships due to football scholarships.  MU can offer lower travel costs and strong Olympic sports.  After all, MU would only need $3 million or so in tv revenue to come out ahead.  And our hoops team will easily earn that back in future NCAA hoops appearance revenue and also ratings eyeballs.  Who knows?  Larry has been spotted in the West Loop recently, say in the area of the Montgomery Wards Building...just rumors I know but a BET deal is not out of the equation considering...

[setyoursightsnorth]

Some of the schools, (University of Iowa, Arizona, Oregon, Kansas) are almost always affiliated as an athletic-school as opposed to an academic university. At least that is always what I thought. just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In other words, it's the consolation prize that the Ivy schools made up to give non-Ivy schools a name to use to feel good about themselves, even though they still aren't Ivy.

Kind of like being a dash school.

Not exactly, not all Ivy League schools are even part of the AAU today.  Also, the founding members of the AAU were mostly Ivy and Big Ten schools.  Of the 14 original members, 9 were Ivy or Big Ten. 

Michigan
Wisconsin
Penn
Princeton
Chicago (Big Ten at the time)
Harvard
Cornell
Columbia
Yale

Cal
Johns Hopkins
Stanford
Clark  (on longer a member)
Catholic U.  (no longer a member)



The Big Ten has the largest membership 10 of 11.
Ivy League 7 of 8
Pac 12 has 8 of 12
ACC has 6 of 14
Big 12 has 4 of 9
SEC 3 of 13
Big East has 1 (Rutgers)

[ChicosBailBonds]

Academics should matter, but I loathe that 'research' needs to be a major factor at judging a school.

Fair point.  That's where the dollars go and I suspect that is why it is given so much credence.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The Big 10 cares about academics, right after they care about making millions of dollars in revenue.

If there is a school that they can add that will make them millions of dollars, they will look into it.

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow... but the BTN is a hungry beast they they need to keep feeding it.

Conferences are going to keep evolving until they have squeezed out every bit of revenue.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Some of the schools, (University of Iowa, Arizona, Oregon, Kansas) are almost always affiliated as an athletic-school as opposed to an academic university. At least that is always what I thought. just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

All depends on where you are coming from.  KU is one of my alma maters, other than basketball we were hardly known as an athletic school over the decades.  In fact, we've been pretty piss poor with minor periods of decent success here and there.  Oregon was a laughing stock out here for decades in football and basketball (Oregon State was actually the basketball school up there for many years).  The thing is, they are universities first and even though the UA basketball team gives the school tremendous exposure, the school is doing things at a research and academic level that also garners it notoriety outside of folks like us that are hooked into sports so much.

We are viewing it through the lens of a sports fan.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The Big 10 cares about academics, right after they care about making millions of dollars in revenue.

They care about both and their history supports that. If they didn't, they would have expanded for expansion sake and brought in schools that don't cut it academically...which they haven't. I don't see any of that changing.  The Big Ten is so big, so powerful, they don't need to cut corners on who they admit next.  It almost certainly will continue to be AAU member schools. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

They care about both and their history supports that. If they didn't, they would have expanded for expansion sake and brought in schools that don't cut it academically...which they haven't. I don't see any of that changing.  The Big Ten is so big, so powerful, they don't need to cut corners on who they admit next.  It almost certainly will continue to be AAU member schools. 

Historically, you are correct, but I just think the landscape has changed greatly.

Th BigTen is doing things now it didn't dream up 10 years ago. 10 years from now it will be doing things we probably can't imagine.

$ is the big driver right now. $. $. $.

[Nukem2]

They care about both and their history supports that. If they didn't, they would have expanded for expansion sake and brought in schools that don't cut it academically...which they haven't. I don't see any of that changing.  The Big Ten is so big, so powerful, they don't need to cut corners on who they admit next.  It almost certainly will continue to be AAU member schools. 

I guess the FB rosters of the Big 10 member schools are heavily populated with potential Rhodes scholars...!  AAU membership...phooey.  It's just all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[unforgiven]

Academics should matter, but I loathe that 'research' needs to be a major factor at judging a school.

University research is a prime factor in American creativity and innovation. It is an essential ingredient in economic, social, and intellectual progress.

[Nukem2]

University research is a prime factor in American creativity and innovation. It is an essential ingredient in economic, social, and intellectual progress.

But....has zip to do with athletics, particularly FB which is heavily populated with academic underachievers.

[unforgiven]

But....has zip to do with athletics, particularly FB which is heavily populated with academic underachievers.

I agree. Although, Gatorade was made by lab guys for the Florida football team

[Nukem2]

I agree. Although, Gatorade was made by lab guys for the Florida football team

Another major advance for mankind...   

[4everwarriors]

Made a fortune off essentially sugared water.

[GGGG]

Academics should matter, but I loathe that 'research' needs to be a major factor at judging a school.

Schools serve different purposes.  Major research universities are extremely important to American creativity, but that doesn't mean they are good for everyone from an undergraduate education perspective. 

[Nukem2]

Schools serve different purposes.  Major research universities are extremely important to American creativity, but that doesn't mean they are good for everyone from an undergraduate education perspective. 

Precisely what I said in saying that AAU membership has zip to do with athletics other than the appearance of eliteness by association......

[GGGG]

Precisely what I said in saying that AAU membership has zip to do with athletics other than the appearance of eliteness by association......

I don't disagree with you one bit.

[🏀]

Schools serve different purposes.  Major research universities are extremely important to American creativity, but that doesn't mean they are good for everyone from an undergraduate education perspective. 

I completely agree. I'm not saying they aren't important. To echo your point, a research university has very little do to with an undergrad education. I'm irritated when people use research money as one of the end-all factors when ranking universities.

The money part is one of the most irritating. There are professors in the MU Civil Engineering department that have helped the DOT make strides in materials and design of the modern freeway construction with minimal amount of monetary support.

I never, ever hear about a whole lot out of UW, but they're engineering research budgets are ridiculous.