The Trend In Attendance

[Tugg Speedman]

First some stats and then some comments

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Here are the yearly numbers since MU moved into the Bradley Center

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/season_by_season_attendance

1989 - Moved to Bradley Center

           National
Year      Rank                Average
1989       23                   11,954
1990       21                   13,301
1991       18                   13,433
1992    not top 25           12,613
1993       20                   13,443
1994       14                   14,340
1995       25                   12,814
1996       16                   12,751
1997    not top 25           12,247
1998    not top 25           11,508    
1999    not top 25           12,145
2000    not top 25           9,971
2001    not top 25           11,360
2002       12                   12,680
2003       11                   15,553
2004       12                   15,291
2005       21                   11,965
2006       18                   13,998
2007       20                   15,345
2008       14                   16,239
2009       10                   16,200
2010       10                   15,617
2011       11                   15,586      

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Here are some numbers for this year.
For Georgetown I'm assuming 19,000.  Given Pitt and Cincy, this seems fair.


Day           Date               Opponent        Attendence   Average
Friday   11/11/2011       Mount St. Mary    13,834   
Monday   11/14/2011     Norfolk State   12,765   13,300
Monday   11/28/2011       Jacksonville   12,848   13,149
Saturday   12/10/2011       Green Bay   14,208   13,414
Saturday   12/17/2011       Northern Colorado   13,593   13,450
Thursday   12/22/2011       UWM          14,917   13,694
Thursday   12/29/2011       Vanderbilt   15,684   13,978
Sunday   1/1/2012       Villanova          14,550   14,050
Wednesday   1/11/2012       St. Johns   14,484   14,098
Saturday   1/14/2012       Pittsburgh   18,404   14,529
Monday   1/16/2012       Louisville        16,688           14,725
Tuesday   1/24/2012       USF        13,693           14,639
Tuesday   1/31/2012       Steton Hall    13,828           14,577
Saturday   2/11/2012       Cincy         18,815     14,879
Wednesday   2/22/2012       Rutgers   1      4,807           14,875
Saturday   3/3/2012       Georgetown   19,000   15,132

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According the MU media guide, here are the largest single game attendance records.

http://issuu.com/marquettesid/docs/mubb_guide_2011-12

1. 19,144    Syracuse      March 7, 2009       L 86-79
2. 19,091    Uconn          February 25, 2009  L 93-82
3. 19,085    Georgetown  March 1, 2008       L 70-68
4. 19,074    Wisconsin     December 11, 2011 L 69-64
5. 19,041    Georgetown  January 31, 2009   W 94-82
6. 19,037    Pittsburgh     March 3, 2007      W 75-71
7. 19,032    Syracuse      January 29, 2011   W 76-70
8. 19,021    DePaul          December 9, 2006  W 84-82
9. 19,020    Wisconsin      February 15, 2008  L 70-66
10. 19,011    Pittsburgh      February 18, 2006  W 72-54
11. 19,007    Pittsburgh      February 18, 2006  W 84-82
12. 18,949  DePaul           January 24, 2009    W 91-82

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Comments

If the Georgetown forecast is good, this season will average 15,100.  This would be the fourth year of decline since the peak in 2008.  However, note the national trend is also going down.  In 2008 when MU drew 16,239, we ranked 14 nationally.  Last year, when we drew 15,586, we ranked 11th nationally.  This suggest that the decline is not MU alone.  It is happening at all the top programs.

This year's attendance numbers, as well as the record game attendance, clearly show some teams draw better than others.  Louisville, Pitt, Georgetown and Wisconsin draw better.  Say what you want, the opponent matters.  To say otherwise is to be wrong.


Sure we could analyze it versus record, opponent, day of the week, etc.  If someone want to do this, please do.  Given what I show above, it seems that all programs are seeing attendance dip, and day of week and opponent matter.  So, I'm not so sure that MU is experiencing anything unusual for a top drawing program.

Any other thoughts?

Add later ....

If we played Wisconsin in the BC this year, instead of Norfolk State (our lowest attended game) and drew 19,000 (given they were top 10 and we were also ranked, that is reasonable), our attendance would have average 15,522 or almost exactly as last year.  So this year's drop can be explained by not playing Wisconsin at home.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Nicely researched.

Well done.

MU should look at doing more "community" type tickets that can be given away/purchased cheaply for local HS students.

Why let thousands of seats sit empty when you can bring in prospective students and or future fans?

Easy to say, harder to do I suppose.

[Real Chilly Podcast]

Nicely researched.

Well done.

MU should look at doing more "community" type tickets that can be given away/purchased cheaply for local HS students.

Why let thousands of seats sit empty when you can bring in prospective students and or future fans?

Easy to say, harder to do I suppose.

sure you want to bring in that many inexperienced 'slappers of five' into the BC stands at once?  Could turn chaotic.

[Canadian Dimes]

2005       21                   11,965
2006       18                   13,998

These are the numbers that are amazing to me... the 5th and sixth years of the tenure of one Tommy Naismith.  Through it all...NIT appearances, terrible recruitind, transfers, barely D1 caliber bench warmers...he found time to market himself to every other school out there and to buck for a raise every single year.

What a freaking loser Crean is.  

Meanwhile a simple man that did not get the job, in fact only got the job becuase the administartion was equal parts dumb, lazy and unprepared has elavated the program to heights not seen since the late 70's.

Thanks for re-empahsizing what I already knew

[THEultimateWARRIOR]

MU needs to figure out a way to get students more involved. They do a horrible job at this. We should be rallying around this top 10 team and I just don't see anything being done by the university. Secondly we NEED to figure out a way to schedule more night games/weekend games. Its a terrible schedule this year for attendance numbers.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Anybody want to hear my opinion on some of those largest single game attendance (in the state of Wisconsin) figures?

 

[Aughnanure]

Good breakdown AnotherMU84.

One thought, will attendance become an even bigger NCAA problem as conference growth and realignment continue. With more teams sharing less geographic relevance, the attractiveness of the opponents go down.

This doesn't even include that you eliminate home-home series with teams, which can dilute rivalries over the long-run. Sure, now Syracuse gets to play Duke and UNC now, but how often in front of their fans? So instead of having Georgetown, UConn, Nova and Pitt at home every year (pre-2005 expansion let's say), they now get Va tech, Miami, and Florida St.

Maryland is currently having this problem, losing a guaranteed home game against Duke every year and is basically being pushed to align with north schools it has never shared a conference with.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Marquette is very good at selling tickets to their mens' basketball games; unfortunately, that is not basis of most complaints involving "attendance."

[Canadian Dimes]

MU needs to figure out a way to get students more involved. They do a horrible job at this. We should be rallying around this top 10 team and I just don't see anything being done by the university. Secondly we NEED to figure out a way to schedule more night games/weekend games. Its a terrible schedule this year for attendance numbers.

Are u suggesting the MU students are unaware of when or where the games are?  If not what might u suggest apart from Mu physically delivering them to the BC?  

Give me a break MU's sucess is part of their own undoing in that area.  Students now expect a good team and too manydont get as hyped for games only the big games.  Times have changed, back in the day the students got hyped for every game, game day was a cultural event usually starting in the morning or early after noon of game day.  We did not go to see the opponenet and our expectations for victory were far less.  We did not have give aways or donuts or anything else.  Simply participated in the tradition that is marquette basketball.  It is foreign to me that someone would want to attend MU and not embrace the MU basketball tradition.  

Howwever, that is a moot point,  MU and all programs count tickets sold.  So if 4000 student tickets are sold they count as 4000 whether MU marketing can get any of them to show up.  

[Spotcheck Billy]

Good breakdown AnotherMU84.

One thought, will attendance become an even bigger NCAA problem as conference growth and realignment continue. With more teams sharing less geographic relevance, the attractiveness of the opponents go down.

This doesn't even include that you eliminate home-home series with teams, which can dilute rivalries over the long-run. Sure, now Syracuse gets to play Duke and UNC now, but how often in front of their fans? So instead of having Georgetown, UConn, Nova and Pitt at home every year (pre-2005 expansion let's say), they now get Va tech, Miami, and Florida St.

Maryland is currently having this problem, losing a guaranteed home game against Duke every year and is basically being pushed to align with north schools it has never shared a conference with.

good point on the home and home rivalries, NC State fans are pi$$ed after learning they are losing just that with other Tobacco Road schools as has Wake

[Canadian Dimes]

Good breakdown AnotherMU84.

One thought, will attendance become an even bigger NCAA problem as conference growth and realignment continue. With more teams sharing less geographic relevance, the attractiveness of the opponents go down.

This doesn't even include that you eliminate home-home series with teams, which can dilute rivalries over the long-run. Sure, now Syracuse gets to play Duke and UNC now, but how often in front of their fans? So instead of having Georgetown, UConn, Nova and Pitt at home every year (pre-2005 expansion let's say), they now get Va tech, Miami, and Florida St.

Maryland is currently having this problem, losing a guaranteed home game against Duke every year and is basically being pushed to align with north schools it has never shared a conference with.

Totally agree and feel bad fo the student athletes and the fans of many of these schools.  I think that aspect has been over looked.  How many WVU fans and family meber do you think will be taking in their BBAll game at Stillwater next year or will attend the Soccer, or tennis or volleyball games in Po-dunk big 12 towns?  How many will make the journey to the conference tournmanets??

Answer about as MAny Boston Collge fans that attend the basketball game at Clemson.  

How many Syracuse alums and fans got to enjoy games in the cities they currently reside in in Providence, or Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago etc.

Sad state with unintended consequences.

Look at Boston college is the incremental revenue they are getting making up for all the lost revenue that comes with having an absolutely pathetic athletics program caused by playing in a conference nowhere near you with schools nothing like yours?

[Small Orange Soda]

What about TV coverage?

I went to MU during the post F4 Crean years, and unless the game was on a national network, I had to listen to it on the radio or attend.  When it's those two options, the latter is by far the better choice.  I don't live in Milwaukee anymore, but I thought I read that all games are televised locally now.  If that had been the case when I was a student, I would think a lot more people would save the cash and stay home to watch.

[eroc830]

What about TV coverage?

I went to MU during the post F4 Crean years, and unless the game was on a national network, I had to listen to it on the radio or attend.  When it's those two options, the latter is by far the better choice.  I don't live in Milwaukee anymore, but I thought I read that all games are televised locally now.  If that had been the case when I was a student, I would think a lot more people would save the cash and stay home to watch.

+1  A lot of people I sit with in the cheap seats at the games don't show up to the small games if they know they can catch them on TV at home.  Now, they still count for attendance since they bought the ticket but I'm sure other fans think the same way. 

[MountainCreekHouse]

We didn't play Wisconsin on Feb 15, 2008...

[Canadian Dimes]

+1  A lot of people I sit with in the cheap seats at the games don't show up to the small games if they know they can catch them on TV at home.  Now, they still count for attendance since they bought the ticket but I'm sure other fans think the same way. 

there has to be some of that pretty much every Mu game is now telivised.

Personally went to every MU at depaul game for about 15 years straight. It was fun met up with friends we usually win etc.  However, my only other option was to listen to the game on 720.   Now i dont have to worry about leavin work, schedules tickets, weather , coordination etc.  becuase i can just watch it on TV.

Sort of lame I know but the TV clealry has a factor as well.

heck I remeber 20 years ago when Mu was on TV about 5 times a year.  I was abig deal.

[Sir Lawrence]

We didn't play Wisconsin on Feb 15, 2008...

Nor did we play DePaul on December 9 of 2006.  MU did, however, play UW on that date....

[Novak4Three]

Am I the only person that saw the title of this thread and thought that it was about Lawrence Blackledge being at a game recently?

[Lennys Tap]

Nice research, Another 84. The fact that MU is stable at its all time highs (#10/11) tells the real story. Total numbers are slightly down everywhere, but free TV and a crappy economy explain that.

As for those looking for "elephants in the room" to explain a dropoff that never happened - burned!

[bobnoxious]

Am I the only person that saw the title of this thread and thought that it was about Lawrence Blackledge being at a game recently?

I was thinking that as well

[Hoopaloop]

Good research.

Two points that should be raised, however.


Have bodies in the building dropped?  In the games I attend, my answer would be yes but hard to tell.  I typically get up to Weekend games which are often better attended.  The stats say one thing on paper, but are people choosing not to attend more than in the past?  Subject of opinion since we don't know the actual numbers at the turnstyle.

Next, the analysis that would make sense to me is how are other top 10, top 25 schools doing in attendance and then normalize that against size of the school population or even area population as well as what the building can hold.  For example, Madison sells out all their games and could have even higher attendance if their building was larger.  Duke would have higher attendance (overall, not just student) if their building was larger.  Conversely, MU's building is so big it hurts them because the games often aren't sold out and creates no sense of urgency to purchase.  There's always a ticket to be had for a Marquette game.

[Tugg Speedman]

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/051410aaa.html


May 14, 2010

Milwaukee - The Marquette University men’s basketball team finished 10th in the nation in attendance for the second-straight season, according to official statistics released by the NCAA this week.

MU fans poured into the Bradley Center to watch the Golden Eagles for the 22nd season, averaging a crowd of 15,617 per night in 2009-10. Marquette’s 10th-place finish matched the highest ever in program history.

Marquette is 284-82 (.776) in its 22 seasons at the Bradley Center, thanks in large part to the tremendous fan support.

Marquette has finished in the top-25 in the nation in attendance each of the last nine years

MU is the only non-football school to rank in the top-20 every year since 2003

473,992 fans watched MU games (home/away/neutral) in 2009-10, 14th-most in the country

Over three million fans watched BIG EAST games in 2009-10, the most of any conference

All-time attendance at the Bradley Center will pass five million early in 2010-11

NCAA First & Second Round average attendance in Milwaukee was second-highest among all sites

 
 
 

[Hoopaloop]

Where this also could matter is the courting of our coach down the road.  If our coach thinks we have less bodies in the building then we should for our level of program, does that weigh on him in any fashion?  My suspicion is that it doesn't, but at the same time you want your team noticed and you want bodies in the seats.  If the attendance says 17,000 but only 10,000 are in the building does that become problematic to the coach and an opportunity elsewhere?

[reinko]

MU needs to figure out a way to get students more involved. They do a horrible job at this. We should be rallying around this top 10 team and I just don't see anything being done by the university. Secondly we NEED to figure out a way to schedule more night games/weekend games. Its a terrible schedule this year for attendance numbers.

Typical.  Blame the administration because a bunch of whiny millennials don't want to waddle down the street about 8 blocks to go watch a top 10 nationally ranked basketball team with an already paid for ticket.

[NotAnAlum]

I have been disappointed at the attendance considering how good the team is.  I seem to remember that back when we were an average team in C-USA we'd get some packed houses when Cincinnati (then always top 10) or Louisville came in.  But when I look at your figures I've got to assume that those packed houses were offset by other games that were pretty poorly attended.

It seemed this year that we didn't get the Marque home games that we on a weekend when they can draw max attendance.  Part of was that Pitt was down so even when they came in it wasn't a big deal.  Louisville was on a weekday.  Cinc didn't have a number after their name so the casual fan didn't realize how big a game that was.

If everybody is locked into a down trend and we're keeping pace its probably not a serious problem.  I think from the data you can see we made a step forward when we joined the Big East.  Unfortunately from a casual fan standpoint thats "factored into the numbers" now and just having the BE teams isn't going to raise us further.  To take another step forward like that is going to take a SPECIAL SEASON like Syracuse is having.   If we had a season where we were ranked #1 sometime more people might attend just to say they were here.  But its unrealistic to stay up there (we're not NC) so the next season its back to 10 - 12 in attendance.  Could be worse.

[The Equalizer]

Good research.

Two points that should be raised, however.


Have bodies in the building dropped?  In the games I attend, my answer would be yes but hard to tell.  I typically get up to Weekend games which are often better attended.  The stats say one thing on paper, but are people choosing not to attend more than in the past?  Subject of opinion since we don't know the actual numbers at the turnstyle.

Next, the analysis that would make sense to me is how are other top 10, top 25 schools doing in attendance and then normalize that against size of the school population or even area population as well as what the building can hold.  For example, Madison sells out all their games and could have even higher attendance if their building was larger.  Duke would have higher attendance (overall, not just student) if their building was larger.  Conversely, MU's building is so big it hurts them because the games often aren't sold out and creates no sense of urgency to purchase.  There's always a ticket to be had for a Marquette game.

This is the top 15 from 2011. Instead of just a one year attendance comparison, i went back to 2009.


           2012        2011    2009         Change
Kentucky   23638     23603   22239   6.3%
Syracuse   26946     22312   21044   28.0%
Lousivllle   21400     21832   19397   10.3%
N. Carolina   20066     19144   21035   -4.6%
Tennessee   17954     18952   20483   -12.3%
BYU           14938     18714   13383   11.6%
Wisconsin   17175     17230   17230   -0.3%
Memphis   16620     16768   16933   -1.8%
Kansas   16300     16436   16350   -0.3%
Illinois   14896     15851   15499   -3.9%
Marquette   15200     15586   16200   -6.2%
Indiana   16354     15259   14331   14.1%
Ohio State   16390     15125   15462   6.0%
Maryland   12975     14910   17048   -23.9%
Mich St.   14797     14797   14759   0.3%

The two biggest declines came at Maryland and Tennessee, which are both having bad years.  MU had the 4d biggest decline.

Louisville is up, but they are in a larger facility. 

[RJax55]

BYU is actually down 11%, the Jimmer effect.

Surprised that UNC is down, but then again, this data doesn't tell me very much.

Teams that are having great ('Cuse, Kentucky) or bounce back (IU) years are up... Not much of a surprise.

Teams that are struggling (UofI, Maryland, Tenn.) are down. Again, no surprise.

Teams that are playing to preseason expectations, are either slightly up or down a bit.

When it comes to MU, they are playing slightly above expectations. Started the season ranked #21, now 10th.

[Babybluejeans]

Say what you will about Crean's MU career (I for one am grateful for what he did but am equally grateful that his departure made way for Buzzard). But you have to admit he did a great job at getting students in the door. I recall early in his tenure he would personally go to the dorms and talk to students about getting tickets and going to games. When a buddy of mine and I camped out before the '03 Louisville game, he came by at 11 pm and gave us sandwiches and chatted with us (telling us he'd never seen that before and hoped we continued it). His little pre-game talks to the crowd were perhaps mildly self-indulgent but also highlighted his emphasis on having a good home court atmosphere. Buzz doesn't seem to have quite the same concern (partially because it was pretty good when he stepped in). In any event, I agree with THEultimateWARRIOR that the University has to do more  -- be it through Buzz or through the athletic department -- to try to get students to the games and involved. Sure lots of us probably think students shouldn't have to be goaded to see a top 10 team play in a great conference, but not all students begin with the same intensity that a lot of us have. Love the idea of giving away cheap tickets to high schoolers as well. The next couple years should be interesting as new students come in having seen consistently top 25 play the past few years prior to entering MU.

[Warrior1]

The attendance at weekday games against weak opponents is mainly a lesson on group-think with students. The students who truly care about the success of the basketball team go, and that number is about what you saw in the stands Wednesday.

The rest of the students are like my girlfriend for example. She, like many students, enjoyed going to the games, but did not get truly upset if Marquette lost. She went because it was fun, and all of our friends were going, and became somewhat of a fan of the game. So many people forget what it is like to be a "casual" fan of a team. Remember there is not a prerequisite to be a huge Marquette fan to buy student tickets. A large amount of students buy tickets because it is the cool think to do, and for the most part the games are fun and most of their friends will be there. I don't want to use the term "girl" because that would be sexist and many of the most intense fans I met have been women, but I think you know what I am talking about.

The problem is that on weekday games people expect Marquette to win big so they assume it will not be a fun game to watch, and most people know the crowd turnout will not be very high, and most of their friends will not be going, so they don't go.

People don't show up because they are casual fans and everyone else isn't going. It is a chain reaction. Everyone is going Saturday because it is senior night, so some of the casual fans want to go, which makes even the apathetic fans want to go because it will be a party, and as a result everyone goes.

I know this is kind of talking in a big circle, but I think you get the point.

[PaintTouches]

As a senior having seen the Amigos and attendance then, I'll chime in with my two cents.

The biggest difference is...facebook. It's as simple as that. There is no need for the casual fan to buy season tickets any more because they will buy the tickets for the three big games on Facebook anyways. Seriously, I'm not condoning this and definitely don't agree with the logic but that's the way it is. Why pony up 100 something bucks when you'll only go to a few big games anyways. Just pony up 20 bucks a couple times on the Marquette Ticket Exchange and you're golden.

As for the whole Crean worked the crowd better, can't say since I wasn't around for that, but the Athletic department (and Buzz) still hands out pizzas on  certain games as well as coffee and donuts for the early campers. Just look at the All-Access clip of the Wisconsin game from last season.

As many have stated before me, it is a great sign that this is the biggest gripe people have with this season. Consider ourselves lucky that we aren't debating the softness of the bubble ad nauseam as was the case the past two years.

[4everwarriors]

Anybody want to hear my opinion on some of those largest single game attendance (in the state of Wisconsin) figures?

 

Lay it on me, Brother. Any chance they're linked to Crean's contract attendance clause?

[77ncaachamps]

Just a gut feeling...

Let more "C" students and "Legacies" into MU.

They're the ones most willing to skip class and homework to really be there on Game Days.

/turning off "Animal House" on Comedy Central

[Moe]

Who remembers what year the student section went from 3200 to 4000?

I think a lot of the discussion this year on attendance hasn't been total numbers, but more so student attendance.  I know there must be data out there (tickets are scanned every game at the entrance), but I would be interested in actual student attendance over the years.

[Tugg Speedman]

This is the top 15 from 2011. Instead of just a one year attendance comparison, i went back to 2009.


           2012        2011    2009         Change
Kentucky   23638     23603   22239   6.3%
Syracuse   26946     22312   21044   28.0%
Lousivllle   21400     21832   19397   10.3%
N. Carolina   20066     19144   21035   -4.6%
Tennessee   17954     18952   20483   -12.3%
BYU           14938     18714   13383   11.6%
Wisconsin   17175     17230   17230   -0.3%
Memphis   16620     16768   16933   -1.8%
Kansas   16300     16436   16350   -0.3%
Illinois   14896     15851   15499   -3.9%
Marquette   15200     15586   16200   -6.2%
Indiana   16354     15259   14331   14.1%
Ohio State   16390     15125   15462   6.0%
Maryland   12975     14910   17048   -23.9%
Mich St.   14797     14797   14759   0.3%

The two biggest declines came at Maryland and Tennessee, which are both having bad years.  MU had the 4d biggest decline.

Louisville is up, but they are in a larger facility. 

Again, if we played Wisconsin at home this year, we would have had another 19000 game and our overall attendance would have been unchanged from last year.

[Litehouse]

I read the subject title and thought Lawrence Blackledge showed up in Morgantown tonight.