Welcome to MU Jamal Cain!

[muwarrior69]

I'd challenge that. Wojo has exactly one recruiting class hit the court at this point. 2 members of that class made the all freshman team. One made first team all big east. No other team last year managed that.

We have only one coming back though and he did not make the first team.

[GGGG]

We have only one coming back though and he did not make the first team.

So Wojo gets penalized in your mind because of that?

[jsglow]

We have only one coming back though and he did not make the first team.

Direct quote from the BEast site:

"The BIG EAST Freshman of the Year will come from the BIG EAST All-Freshman Team.  There was a tie in the voting, so extra selections were added.  Marquette’s Ellenson was a unanimous pick along with a pair of guards, Villanova’s Jalen Brunson and Xavier’s Edmond Sumner.  Also selected were Georgetown’s Jessie Govan, Marquette’s Haanif Cheatham, and St. John’s Kassoum Yakwe."

So yes, Haanif was First Team all Frosh although he was not one of 3 unanimous selections.  Oh, and MU was the only school that had two players included.  Revisionist history corrected.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We have only one coming back though and he did not make the first team.

You sure about that?

http://www.bigeast.com/news/2016/3/6/MBB_0306160917.aspx

[tower912]

He only makes the easy all conference teams. 

[jsglow]

You guys ever notice that when one of the 'boo birds' posts something demonstrably false in an effort to further their negative narrative that more often than not they fail to acknowledge their mistake?

So when Wojo inks Tillman or French, does our ranking make the Top 15?  Look, I agree with many that those things are a little silly but if one uses 'A', 'B', or 'C' ratings we've been at or near the top of the BEast every year since Wojo started recruiting here.

[muwarrior69]

You sure about that?

http://www.bigeast.com/news/2016/3/6/MBB_0306160917.aspx

Yes, Henry is the only Marquette player on the All Big East First Team. Haanif is not, he made the Big East Frosh team with Henry. So Haanif is the only player returning and did not make the First team all Big East.

[jsglow]

I'd challenge that. Wojo has exactly one recruiting class hit the court at this point. 2 members of that class made the all freshman team. One made first team all big east. No other team last year managed that.

69, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you misread TAMU's comment.  This is what you initially responded to.  Carry on.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yes, Henry is the only Marquette player on the All Big East First Team. Haanif is not, he made the Big East Frosh team with Henry. So Haanif is the only player returning and did not make the First team all Big East.

Haha, my bad. I honestly read "he" as HE. I thought you were saying Henry did not make first team.

Still, just because one went pro does not support your theory that Wojo's players have been inferior to other team's players. In fact, it says the opposite because no other BE coaches managed to pull in an NBA ready freshmen.

[muwarrior69]

69, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you misread TAMU's comment.  This is what you initially responded to.  Carry on.

Appreciate that and for the record I am not a "boo bird". I go to all the MU games when they  play here in Jersey. A true fan is one who supports the team even when they are not that good. I hope Wojo sticks around for the long hall and builds a nice program that he can be proud to call his own. We just have to be patient. I hope Jamal, Theo and Ike are the players that will start to turn the program around, but they have to show that on the court, not on potential. Right now the only player on our team that I consider the real deal is Haanif. I do hope JJJ and Luke have a great senior year and provide the leadership this team has been lacking for some time. This season will be a good indication of where we are without Henry.

[Brewtown Andy]

Howard has a gorgeous release, though I haven't seen as much of him.  I'll agree that we'll need to wait and see.  If Carter and Rowsey play well, Howard could find minutes hard to come by.

All I know is he was the only three point shooter worth a damn on the U17 team that won the World Championship and teams still couldn't stop him from shooting.

[jsglow]

Appreciate that and for the record I am not a "boo bird". I go to all the MU games when they  play here in Jersey. A true fan is one who supports the team even when they are not that good. I hope Wojo sticks around for the long hall and builds a nice program that he can be proud to call his own. We just have to be patient. I hope Jamal, Theo and Ike are the players that will start to turn the program around, but they have to show that on the court, not on potential. Right now the only player on our team that I consider the real deal is Haanif. I do hope JJJ and Luke have a great senior year and provide the leadership this team has been lacking for some time. This season will be a good indication of where we are without Henry.

Fair enough.  Will you acknowledge that passing judgment on other young players might be a little premature? Let's take Traci for a moment.  One must acknowledge that he was a PG upgrade, even as a Frosh.  We have no way of knowing how good he'll be as an upperclassman.  So truth be told, might you be coloring your judgment of Wojo's recruiting by looking at Buzz' failed recruiting, especially his last year or two at MU?

As to your 'start to turn around' comment.  What the sam heck was last year?  Do you remember how god awful we were the year before that?  Some of that turnaround happened DURING last season as one would expect when 3/5 of the starting lineup were Frosh.  I was at the Iowa game.  I was also at the GTown game at the end.  Night and day brother.

[bilsu]

All I know is he was the only three point shooter worth a damn on the U17 team that won the World Championship and teams still couldn't stop him from shooting.

The coach had him planted at the three point line and the other guards would take it to the hole. You either try to stop the other guards or you try and stop Howard. There was no way a team can do both. It was somewhat similar to having James and Novak on the same team.

[Windyplayer]

He only makes the easy all conference teams.

Have we discussed a banner?

[jsglow]

The coach had him planted at the three point line and the other guards would take it to the hole. You either try to stop the other guards or you try and stop Howard. There was no way a team can do both. It was somewhat similar to having James and Novak on the same team.

My instincts are that Rowsey/Howard will be manning that spot up location this year while Hanni/JJJ and Traci penetrate.  Could be some exciting O.

[muwarrior69]

Fair enough.  Will you acknowledge that passing judgment on other young players might be a little premature? Let's take Traci for a moment.  One must acknowledge that he was a PG upgrade, even as a Frosh. We have no way of knowing how good he'll be as an upperclassman.  So truth be told, might you be coloring your judgment of Wojo's recruiting by looking at Buzz' failed recruiting, especially his last year or two at MU?

As to your 'start to turn around' comment.  What the sam heck was last year?  Do you remember how god awful we were the year before that?  Some of that turnaround happened DURING last season as one would expect when 3/5 of the starting lineup were Frosh.  I was at the Iowa game.  I was also at the GTown game at the end.  Night and day brother.

Yes, Traci was an upgrade and I think he will contribute to the team, but IMHO and it is just that my opinion he did not pass the eye test as did Haanif last year; but let's see how he does with a season under his belt. I agree Buzz's HS recruits were mostly 4 star busts. Let's hope JJJ and Duane prove me wrong this season. I guess the question about last season is: How much of that success was due to Henry? I think the answer to that will be how we fair this season. My real concern for this season is will we be able to crash the boards with the likes of Seton Hall and Xavier, hope Hawser is a banger. I hope Katin and Rowsey are the shooters they are advertised to be and our Freshman can contribute some minutes. I would like to see Luke have a great senior year and hope Matt gets at least 10 minutes a game so we have another big to keep our opponents defense honest. You know the old adage: a pessimist is the only true optimist. I may be a Debbie Downer, but it does not mean I don't want the team to succeed or that the program is going in the wrong direction. It's just that I don't put too much stock in highlight videos or star rankings. We'll see if Wojo and his staff have an eye for good ballplayers and deserve the 22nd best recruiting class (which to me is meaningless) by how well they execute on the court over the next several seasons.

Besides all of the above we have a young coaching staff learning how to lead rather than follow and they will make their share of mistakes as well, which is why I am willing to give Wojo a long leash and be patient. He comes from a winning tradition and he wants to win just as bad as we all do.

[4everwarriors]

Penetration leadin' ta excitin' O is always a good thin', ai na?

[GB Warrior]

Yes, Traci was an upgrade and I think he will contribute to the team, but IMHO and it is just that my opinion he did not pass the eye test as did Haanif last year; but let's see how he does with a season under his belt. I agree Buzz's HS recruits were mostly 4 star busts. Let's hope JJJ and Duane prove me wrong this season. I guess the question about last season is: How much of that success was due to Henry? I think the answer to that will be how we fair this season. My real concern for this season is will we be able to crash the boards with the likes of Seton Hall and Xavier, hope Hawser is a banger. I hope Katin and Rowsey are the shooters they are advertised to be and our Freshman can contribute some minutes. I would like to see Luke have a great senior year and hope Matt gets at least 10 minutes a game so we have another big to keep our opponents defense honest. You know the old adage: a pessimist is the only true optimist. I may be a Debbie Downer, but it does not mean I don't want the team to succeed or that the program is going in the wrong direction. It's just that I don't put too much stock in highlight videos or star rankings. We'll see if Wojo and his staff have an eye for good ballplayers and deserve the 22nd best recruiting class (which to me is meaningless) by how well they execute on the court over the next several seasons.

Besides all of the above we have a young coaching staff learning how to lead rather than follow and they will make their share of mistakes as well, which is why I am willing to give Wojo a long leash and be patient. He comes from a winning tradition and he wants to win just as bad as we all do.

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't know that the other young players on the team got the same chance to grow and shine with HE on the team last year. The offense ran through him - and he's a tremendous offensive talent - but he was far from the most efficient focal point for our offense. I for one am excited to watch this team, since I think we will be more well-rounded offensively and defensively. The key to unlocking our ceiling, as you alluded to, is crashing the boards, and it will need to be a team effort unless Luke shows up night and day better than last year.

[Herman Cain]

Appreciate that and for the record I am not a "boo bird". I go to all the MU games when they  play here in Jersey. A true fan is one who supports the team even when they are not that good. I hope Wojo sticks around for the long hall and builds a nice program that he can be proud to call his own. We just have to be patient. I hope Jamal, Theo and Ike are the players that will start to turn the program around, but they have to show that on the court, not on potential. Right now the only player on our team that I consider the real deal is Haanif. I do hope JJJ and Luke have a great senior year and provide the leadership this team has been lacking for some time. This season will be a good indication of where we are without Henry.

I would be interested in seeing your game by game predictions that are requested in this thread:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52296.0
 

[Herman Cain]

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't know that the other young players on the team got the same chance to grow and shine with HE on the team last year. The offense ran through him - and he's a tremendous offensive talent - but he was far from the most efficient focal point for our offense. I for one am excited to watch this team, since I think we will be more well-rounded offensively and defensively. The key to unlocking our ceiling, as you alluded to, is crashing the boards, and it will need to be a team effort unless Luke shows up night and day better than last year.

I agree with this analysis.

[brewcity77]

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I don't know that the other young players on the team got the same chance to grow and shine with HE on the team last year. The offense ran through him - and he's a tremendous offensive talent - but he was far from the most efficient focal point for our offense. I for one am excited to watch this team, since I think we will be more well-rounded offensively and defensively. The key to unlocking our ceiling, as you alluded to, is crashing the boards, and it will need to be a team effort unless Luke shows up night and day better than last year.

I don't think that will be unpopular at all. Henry was a high usage, moderately low efficiency player much of the year. By the end of the season, he really turned it on, but I think most would agree that everyone else on the team had fewer opportunities because of how heavily we relied on Henry.

Everyone will get more chances with him gone. Granted, that means we are losing our most talented player, but it certainly opens up the court for everyone remaining on the roster.

[barfolomew]

Yes, Traci was an upgrade and I think he will contribute to the team, but IMHO and it is just that my opinion he did not pass the eye test as did Haanif last year;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBwiTiClLeU

If the link doesn't take you there, go to about 1:50 in the video.
Eye test passed.

[muwarrior69]

I would be interested in seeing your game by game predictions that are requested in this thread:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52296.0

I sarcastically predicted 0-30. I know will be better than that and hope we can win 20 like last year.

[GGGG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBwiTiClLeU

If the link doesn't take you there, go to about 1:50 in the video.
Eye test passed.

Traci was an exceedingly better point guard than Haanif was.  The problem was Traci was a freshman, and unless the freshman in question is VERY good, they really struggle at being the primary point guard.

Now Traci may not end up getting much more than the 23 mpg he got last year.  But that's because there are some other options.  But IMO he will be better in those 23 minutes than he was last year.

[muwarrior69]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBwiTiClLeU

If the link doesn't take you there, go to about 1:50 in the video.
Eye test passed.

That is one game. I was talking about the entire season....and Georgetown had a loosing season last year. Hope Traci proves me wrong this season, OK? Obviously your eyes see something different than my eyes, which does not make either of us wrong.