MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Eldon on November 14, 2020, 06:37:51 PM
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Discharges, Demographics and Discipline
Marquette is eyeing deep faculty cuts. An undergraduate says she was targeted for discipline because she questioned the administration.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/11/04/marquette-faces-student-and-faculty-pushback-planned-cuts
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Lots of good info in the article. Unfortunately, it's not looking good for MU.
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The loan is interesting if it is for housing since Lovell was living in Milwaukee for quite some time.
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It would be interesting to know how much legal advice the BoT was given about issues like compensation prior to hiring Lovell. Remember he is their first lay President, so they didn't have experience with such things.
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The loan is interesting if it is for housing since Lovell was living in Milwaukee for quite some time.
He moved to a home owned by the University during his tenure as chancellor at UWM.
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Here's a map illustrating the essentials of the demographic cliff:
https://www.northamerican.com/migration-map
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Here's a map illustrating the essentials of the demographic cliff:
https://www.northamerican.com/migration-map
They'll all be moving back to the midwest in 20 or 30 years when the coasts are underwater....
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He moved to a home owned by the University during his tenure as chancellor at UWM.
Thanks for the background. That makes more sense. Is 1.25M the market? Seems high, but I have nothing to base that off of.
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Here's a map illustrating the essentials of the demographic cliff:
https://www.northamerican.com/migration-map
Marquette was going on a very good path until Lovell came along. The school had a strategic plan to move MU higher in academic ranking. Lovell came along and they dropped that previous laudable goal. I think the stronger the school is academically the easier it will become to attract the broader base of students they are seeking. Everyone wants to be associated with a winner.
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Thanks for the background. That makes more sense. Is 1.25M the market? Seems high, but I have nothing to base that off of.
If he’s expected to entertain at his house, then a house with some size is going to be required. And they aren’t going to want him living in Brookfield. So a decent north shore house? Yeah it will cost that.
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Marquette was going on a very good path until Lovell came along. The school had a strategic plan to move MU higher in academic ranking. Lovell came along and they dropped that previous laudable goal. I think the stronger the school is academically the easier it will become to attract the broader base of students they are seeking. Everyone wants to be associated with a winner.
How so?
I know a complaint people had about Pilarz is he “wanted MU to be Georgetown” and fellow grads who told me that, including some 3M’s, considered that a betrayal of MU’s ideals.
I IMO, I do think we need to lower admission rates and be more selective. We should be the top Jesuit school in the Midwest and top 5 nationally. We’ve slipped behind LMU, Santa Clara, and Gonzaga. Being ahead of LUC and SLU doesn’t excite me.
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Thanks for the background. That makes more sense. Is 1.25M the market? Seems high, but I have nothing to base that off of.
Maybe he should have bought Buzz’s house.
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How so?
I know a complaint people had about Pilarz is he “wanted MU to be Georgetown” and fellow grads who told me that, including some 3M’s, considered that a betrayal of MU’s ideals.
I IMO, I do think we need to lower admission rates and be more selective. We should be the top Jesuit school in the Midwest and top 5 nationally. We’ve slipped behind LMU, Santa Clara, and Gonzaga. Being ahead of LUC and SLU doesn’t excite me.
The name of the game in admissions is yield .
MU is not ever going to be in the same discussion with a Georgetown and BC. However , MU has enough tradition and solid alumni base to be at the level of Fordham , Santa Clara and LMU as well as Villanova (Catholic ) . That level effective would put MU at parity with the lower level schools in the Big Ten.
This type of parity enables the highest possible yield of admitted schools .
The whole marketing schtick about MU and it’s ideals is a bit tired . It never actually was the case 50 years as there were plenty of state schools that offered pretty much anyone with a heartbeat admission. That mantra has no place today either , it just drives the school down .
Keep the admissions standards up and the yield of admitted students will rise.
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If he’s expected to entertain at his house, then a house with some size is going to be required. And they aren’t going to want him living in Brookfield. So a decent north shore house? Yeah it will cost that.
That makes sense. Thanks for the info!
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The name of the game in admissions is yield .
MU is not ever going to be in the same discussion with a Georgetown and BC. However , MU has enough tradition and solid alumni base to be at the level of Fordham , Santa Clara and LMU as well as Villanova (Catholic ) . That level effective would put MU at parity with the lower level schools in the Big Ten.
This type of parity enables the highest possible yield of admitted schools .
The whole marketing schtick about MU and it’s ideals is a bit tired . It never actually was the case 50 years as there were plenty of state schools that offered pretty much anyone with a heartbeat admission. That mantra has no place today either , it just drives the school down .
Keep the admissions standards up and the yield of admitted students will rise.
Yield is an outdated metric that most schools don’t pay much attention to. Mostly because applying to schools is free and easy.
Marquette’s problem was forecasting increases and then “investing” that money in hopes those increases would occur.
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The name of the game in admissions is yield .
MU is not ever going to be in the same discussion with a Georgetown and BC. However , MU has enough tradition and solid alumni base to be at the level of Fordham , Santa Clara and LMU as well as Villanova (Catholic ) . That level effective would put MU at parity with the lower level schools in the Big Ten.
This type of parity enables the highest possible yield of admitted schools .
The whole marketing schtick about MU and it’s ideals is a bit tired . It never actually was the case 50 years as there were plenty of state schools that offered pretty much anyone with a heartbeat admission. That mantra has no place today either , it just drives the school down .
Keep the admissions standards up and the yield of admitted students will rise.
If the Democrats get their way with free college tuition at all public Universities and Colleges MU can't compete against free. Why would anyone pay 30-40k for an education when they can get it free elsewhere.
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Part of the issue with chasing rankings is that two things have changed in the last decade that make this more difficult.
First, the rankings are less easy to manipulate. USN&WR for instance changed up some things so schools couldn't shoot up the ratings by making minimal investments into PR activities, but instead based on things that matter.
Second, the marketplace doesn't trust rankings the way they used to. There is just too many ranking services and too much doubt about their importance.
Marquette also has a practical issue. They don't have the endowment to be a player v. Georgetown and BC. They never really have.
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Yield is an outdated metric that most schools don’t pay much attention to. Mostly because applying to schools is free and easy.
Marquette’s problem was forecasting increases and then “investing” that money in hopes those increases would occur.
Umm have things changed because most places that didn't accept the common application were $25-50 in 2008 when I was applying.
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Umm have things changed because most places that didn't accept the common application were $25-50 in 2008 when I was applying.
Right. Now hardly anyone charges for an application. Many private schools only turn something like 2% of their applications into deposits.
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Right. Now hardly anyone charges for an application. Many private schools only turn something like 2% of their applications into deposits.
Really? Interesting, how do elite schools avoid unqualified people applying en masse? I recall my counselor explaining that's why they started charging to begin with
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Really? Interesting, how do elite schools avoid unqualified people applying en masse? I recall my counselor explaining that's why they started charging to begin with
Well, it doesn't take that much time to reject someone. My guess is that a ton of them are flagged by a computer program that has someone go through and give them a nominal look through.
And many of these schools don't mind because it helps their admit rate, which is another meaningless dumb stat that people think means something.
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Well, it doesn't take that much time to reject someone. My guess is that a ton of them are flagged by a computer program that has someone go through and give them a nominal look through.
And many of these schools don't mind because it helps their admit rate, which is another meaningless dumb stat that people think means something.
This, plus there is a lot of self-selection. While lots more people will apply to Harvard and Yale, kids with 2.7 GPAs still likely won't bother. So elite schools will get many more apps from kids with 3.5 GPAs who will likely be rejected, but it will have a limit.
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If the Democrats get their way with free college tuition at all public Universities and Colleges MU can't compete against free. Why would anyone pay 30-40k for an education when they can get it free elsewhere.
progressives, not Democrats. The "free college" plan with the incoming administration would be community colleges and a federal-state partnership to pay up to 75% for colleges, with no mention of excluding private schools, for those community college graduates. And, let's face it, the type of student MU is going to be attracting aren't interested in two years of community college.
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progressives, not Democrats. The "free college" plan with the incoming administration would be community colleges and a federal-state partnership to pay up to 75% for colleges, with no mention of excluding private schools, for those community college graduates. And, let's face it, the type of student MU is going to be attracting aren't interested in two years of community college.
Agreed. It is a small but loud slice of the Democratic Party that wants free 4-year tuition at state schools. Given the lack of consensus among the Dems and clear opposition from the GOP, it ain't happening anytime soon.
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Free public university tuition is a bad idea. Spending more $$$ on federal financial aid programs, grants not loans, is a much better one. Even if its mostly at two-year schools, or concentrated in a student's first two years of higher education.
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An open letter from the Marquette Jesuit Community presented the officers and trustees of the University - https://twitter.com/MarquetteUnited/status/1327613004796600320 (https://twitter.com/MarquetteUnited/status/1327613004796600320)
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Marquette University is facing serious challenges today from a confluence of events and societal developments. We, the Jesuits missioned to the University by the Society of Jesus, would like to offer our reflections and raise our concerns as we face the present inflection point in the history of the University.
In 1864, Marquette University was chartered, and the Articles of Incorporation granted the Jesuit representatives to “grant such honors and degrees in art, literature and science...” The Society of Jesus deeded control of the University, including sixty-four acres of land and all of the University-owned buildings upon it, to a largely lay board of trustees in 1970.
On that occasion the Board contracted to maintain the “Jesuit orientation, sponsorship, and support of Marquette University” and agreed to the “implementation of Marquette University’s commitment to provide the instruments and conditions necessary for Jesuit educational and apostolic work at the University.” We think it would be helpful to lay out how, in our view, Jesuit educational and apostolic work at the University must be understood.
Initially, St Ignatius, the founder of the Jesuits, invites us in the Spiritual Exercises to focus on what every Jesuit knows as the First Principle and Foundation: “We are created to praise, reverence, and serve God our Lord, and by this means to save our souls, and we are to make use of the things of this world insofar as they help us attain that end, and rid ourselves of them insofar as they hinder us.”
As Jesuits, our approach must be to begin with the ends we wish to attain, and only after those ends are firmly grasped do we then consider means to attain them. Of course such a process is counter-intuitive and challenging to the dominant economic paradigms of our period in history.
But this commitment must condition how we understand service as a trustee or administrative officer of Marquette University. In particular, it sets the University apart from other kinds of organizations. Marquette is not a business; rather, it is an apostolate of the Society of Jesus.
How might this understanding of Marquette as a Jesuit ministry manifest itself? At its fundamental level Marquette cannot simply figure out how much money it has and then decide where to spend it. Rather, it must articulate robust values rooted in the history of the Society of Jesus and in Marquette’s own founding documents.
And after that, armed with a coherent vision, it can begin to figure out the fulfillment of its core values by undergoing a process of asking what resources we need to bring about those goals. We understand that some financial realignment is necessary, but our budgetary constraints cannot dilute what a Jesuit education demands.
In conversations among ourselves, the values that the Jesuits at Marquette University agree on are best expressed in a robust articulation of what we expect of a graduate of our University. If we are faithful to the Jesuit vision, our graduates should manifest the following characteristics.
First, they should be well-grounded in and have an appreciation of physical, social, and spiritual reality. They must know about creation, the world in which we live, and how respect for this world and the flourishing of human life are interdependent. They must understand society, with a special concern for the poor among us, carefully interrogating those structural inequities which result in unequal burdens on those least able to bear the weight. They must have a place to explore spirituality, an understanding of a reality that goes beyond what we can see and touch. In this regard, we want students who are alive with a faith that does justice.
Our graduates need to recognize the corrosive effects of bias and strive to eliminate it from their dealings. They should appreciate the complexity of economic systems and work so that any inequality benefits the poorest among us. We must produce alumni who have a heart for those who suffer in this world, who are unafraid of asking the big questions whose answers are elusive and often intractable, who are willing to speak to the wider world.
And undergirding all of these goals is a robust commitment to each student’s acquiring rigorous analytical skills and the ability to communicate the findings of their investigations in clear, concise, and precise prose. To this end, a solid grounding in the humanities is indispensable.
Yes, this is a tall order, but the integrity of a comprehensive Jesuit education explains why our institutions have survived while others have failed. We face an unknown future, and we face it together. The Marquette Jesuit Community commits to being part of the solution as we strive to provide the best education that we can for our students, for our community, and for the world.
With prayers for our continued common work to make Marquette better, MU Jesuit Community
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Gregory J. O’Meara, S.J.
Rector of the Jesuit Community and Associate Professor of Law, Marquette University
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If he’s expected to entertain at his house, then a house with some size is going to be required. And they aren’t going to want him living in Brookfield. So a decent north shore house? Yeah it will cost that.
Why does he need to entertain at his home? The entire top floor of the AMU is a massive presidential suite for schmoozing.
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the type of student MU is going to be attracting aren't interested in two years of community college.
Sigh, one of the most outdated concepts ever. ::)
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Sigh, one of the most outdated concepts ever. ::)
Look, I know that's not the path you took. But honestly, the two year college jumping to a four year college was more popular a generation ago than it is now. This is the exact reason why the two year UW schools were merged into the four year schools a couple of years ago.
The premise they were built upon - go local cheaper than transfer to a four year program - wasn't happening as much any longer. Their business model wasn't sustainable.
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Why does he need to entertain at his home? The entire top floor of the AMU is a massive presidential suite for schmoozing.
My guess is that he was given a below-market-rate mortgage, and the spread on that is considered income to Lovell. And a $1 million+ house is more that affordable for someone on his salary. It doesn't matter whether he entertains there or not.
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My guess is that he was given a below-market-rate mortgage, and the spread on that is considered income to Lovell. And a $1 million+ house is more that affordable for someone on his salary. It doesn't matter whether he entertains there or not.
^^^^^^^^^ a better conclusion than mine.
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Sigh, one of the most outdated concepts ever. ::)
I’m not talking academics. I’m talking about someone who wants the four year private college experience; living in the dorms, small classes, clubs, community, etc.
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Professors and staff of Jesuit schools uniting together:
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/12/01/workers-and-student-groups-across-jesuit-colleges-form-alliance-protest-cuts-people
Marquette, Canisius, John Carroll University (Cleveland) all getting hammered by budget shortfalls, cuts, etc.
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New Haven Register had this story yesterday. Even Yale had more than 10% not show up this fall.
Enrollment slips at private colleges
Yale has seen 11.4% dip, UB 18.4% due to effects of pandemic, fewer kids of age
By Linda Conner Lambeck
Private colleges like Yale, right, are bleeding students, according to preliminary data recently released by the state to Connecticut Hearst Media.
Arnold Gold / Hearst Conn. Media file photo
nhregister.com/college-tracker
Public colleges are not the only ones losing students during the pandemic.
Private colleges — some of them at least — are also bleeding students according to preliminary data recently released by the state to Connecticut Hearst Media.
The state’s total loss of higher education students is not known because some institutions — Goodwin University in East Hartford among them —have yet to submit their enrollment tallies to the state. Last fall, Goodwin’s total enrollment stood at 3,297 students.
But like the public Connecticut State College and University system which has seen enrollment slip, factors such as COVID-19 and a dwindling pipeline of college-aged students have led to a decline in several institutions.
When the final tally is in, enrollment for its 15 private nonprofit colleges is predicted to be down about 4 percent overall, according to Jennifer Widness, president of the Connecticut Conference of Independent Colleges.
“Connecticut’s independent colleges, like our public counterparts, are certainly facing significant financial pressures due to COVID-19,” Widness said. “We have significant reductions in room and board revenue due to students opting to learn remotely and efforts to de-densify our dorms as well as incredibly costly re-opening costs, especially related testing.”
While many steps have been taken to mitigate the impact of the pandemic, Widness said the lasting impact will be reflected in budget reductions and belt tightening.
Officials: Drop was expected
For this year, the biggest enrollment declines among the privates were seen at Yale University in New Haven and the University of Bridgeport.
UB, which is in the midst of being acquired by two other private institutions, lost 934 students this fall, bringing its total enrollment to 4,155 — an 18.4 percent drop.
Interim President Stephen Healey said the drop was not unexpected and actually factored into its 2020-21 budget.
“It did not shock us,” Healey said. “We feel like it’s stabilized now.”
Most of the decline, he said, was in graduate and international students. Fewer students are living on campus because of COVID-19.
“This year we had a number of students come, check in and then realize they did not feel comfortable and they didn’t stay on campus,” Healey said.
At Yale, one of the most prestigious schools in the nation, fall enrollment stood at 12,060, a decline of 1,549 students from the previous fall.
The 11.4 percent decline is blamed largely on new and continuing undergraduates opting to take a temporary leave of absence or postponing their matriculation, according to the Yale Undergraduate Admissions Office.
The entire sophomore class was not invited to move back onto campus and Yale provided all continuing students the option to take a semester-long or year-long leave of absence, and all incoming students the option to postpone matriculation for one year.
About 20 percent of Yale’s incoming first-years opted to take a gap year. In a normal year that would have been about 3 to 4 percent.
Yale officials say the large numbers holding off will not have a negative impact on those applying to be part of Yale’s Class of 2025.
“University leadership has approved a plan to offer admission to the same number of students in this coming cycle as in a typical year,” said Karen Peart, a Yale spokeswoman. “This year’s first-year class was smaller than usual. Next year’s class will be larger.”
The shift, she said, won’t worsen the odds for this year’s high school seniors to get admitted to the Ivy League school.
Also coming in with fewer students this fall were Connecticut College in New London, Mitchell College Wesleyan University in Middletown, the University of Hartford, the University of Saint Joseph in West Hartford and Albertus Mag-nus College in New Haven.
Combined, those institutions have lost 752 students.
Pandemic trend busters
Other privates bucked the trend and saw modest gains.
Both Fairfield University and neighboring Sacred Heart University saw increases, along with Quinnipiac University in Ham-den, the University of New Haven, Post University in Waterbury and even the tiny Paier College in Ham-den, which is planning on absorbing UB’s arts programs by next year.
Paier, a for-profit institution, went from 89 to 128 students. Paier and Goodwin are in the process of taking over the University of Bridgeport.
Goodwin President Mark Scheinberg said that when Goodwin’s fall numbers are posted he expects them to be close to, if not slightly higher than, last fall, despite the COVID-19 crisis.
New Haven went up 2.5 percent to 6,961 students. It might have been more if international student enrollment hadn’t continued to plummet, said Greg Eichhorn, vice president of enrollment and student success at UNH.
“We had a great fall,” Eichhorn said. “We had a great freshman class, way above our goal and our retention rates went up.”
All that, despite virtual open houses and a multitude of social distancing restrictions. Eichhorn said it is hard to say how much it benefited from the transition going on at UB. There were some transfers but not huge numbers, Eichhorn said.
At Fairfield, the 3.1 percent increase might have been even higher were it not for COVID-19. Still, Corry Unis, vice president of strategic enrollment, said the gains, which brought total enrollment to 5,513, were due to a purposeful marketing strategy and increasing retention.
The percentage of freshmen returning for sophomore year is 92 percent.
“That is a high water mark for us,” Unis said.
The increased retention came despite first-year students having to leave the campus abruptly in March to finish the year taking classes online.
Going forward, Unis said the residual COVID-19 impact will play out in giving families more opportunities to visit the campus remotely.
“I think we will always have a virtual presence but I think as soon as it’s safe .... on-campus visits will get the priority,” Unis said. “There is never going to be a substitute for fit and making that emotional connection.”
At Sacred Heart, meanwhile, James Barquinero, a senior vice president for enrollment, attributes the powerful “word of mouth” from alumni and current students, among other things, for the enrollment growth — a 1.5 percent overall increase to 9,313 students.
COVID-19, Barquinero said, has made the campus community stronger.
“This unity harnessed our collective spirit to provide the safest learning and living environment for our students,” Barquinero said.
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Marquette's enrollment and budget problems are real. They've got to get a handle on it quickly, or they'll be not relevant very quickly.
Budget cuts in any organization are tough. But you have to do so looking at revenue opportunities (i.e., business and engineering are safe) and simply reviewing programs that don't offer much. Every college has 'em and every professors of advanced tiddly winks knows he or she is on a bubble that may someday burst.
You can talk about revenue all day, but the problem is that either Marquette matches offers from large state universities, such as Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana etc., or risk losing quality students that would benefit from a Marquette education.
Marquette's mission is to challenge, to teach people to think and to educate consistent with the philosophy of the Jesuits. Sadly, with the diminishment of Catholicism in our nation and world, the marketplace value of what's special about Marquette also will diminish.
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Marquette's mission is to challenge, to teach people to think and to educate consistent with the philosophy of the Jesuits. Sadly, with the diminishment of Catholicism in our nation and world, the marketplace value of what's special about Marquette also will diminish.
I just don't agree with this. What is special about a Marquette education isn't limited to Catholics and the teaching of Catholicism. The fact that over 40% of the students don't identify as Catholic show that there definitely is a marketplace.
Marquette's issues IMO are more due to a lack of consistent long-term strategic planning, and short term financial planning, more than its identity. Its identity is a strength that should be leaned into and embraced.
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I just don't agree with this. What is special about a Marquette education isn't limited to Catholics and the teaching of Catholicism. The fact that over 40% of the students don't identify as Catholic show that there definitely is a marketplace.
Marquette's issues IMO are more due to a lack of consistent long-term strategic planning, and short term financial planning, more than its identity. Its identity is a strength that should be leaned into and embraced.
I agree that MU (or any school) needs to identify and lean heavily into its identity, but first MU needs to figure out what that is. If 'Catholicism' isn't MU's identity, what is?
I don't know the answer, but my guess is it would benefit from emphasizing the programs where it is most widely known highly ranked.
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Heer's hopin' MU duzant morph inta Concordia University, hey?
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If 'Catholicism' isn't MU's identity, what is?
MU, and I'm sure a lot of the other Jesuit schools, are facing a real issue with this. It may not be Catholicism per se, but the Jesuit way of educating has been a major part of their identity since their founding. I don't know how much the market values the core curriculum, and those departments have become a financial anchor. My fear is that MU loses that core identity. At that point, the biggest differentiating factor between MU and a state school is cost, and that doesn't work in MU's favor.
I don't know what the answer is. But I do know Lovell is gonna have to get his hands dirty on this, something he's not willing to do. He'd rather plan capital projects he'll never have money for.
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I agree that MU (or any school) needs to identify and lean heavily into its identity, but first MU needs to figure out what that is. If 'Catholicism' isn't MU's identity, what is?
I don't know the answer, but my guess is it would benefit from emphasizing the programs where it is most widely known highly ranked.
I didn't say that Catholicism isn't part of its identity. It most certainly is. But that isn't just about the specific teaching of Catholic dogma, nor is it simply for Catholics.
Creighton has a cool page on this.
https://www.creighton.edu/about/what-jesuit-education
And I agree that MU should emphasize on the programs it succeeds in. Engineering, business, etc. But leaders in those industries will tell you they just don't want people with those skills. They want people who can think. Can write. Can communicate. Can think about the world at large. All of that is wrapped up in a traditional liberal arts core cirriculum that MU provides and what should differentiate Marquette from its competitors.
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I agree that MU (or any school) needs to identify and lean heavily into its identity, but first MU needs to figure out what that is. If 'Catholicism' isn't MU's identity, what is?
I don't know the answer, but my guess is it would benefit from emphasizing the programs where it is most widely known highly ranked.
I agree. To me, its not an issue of removing the core curriculum or the Jesuit identity, but rather focusing on the programs that are successful in attracting students and producing successful alums.
Marquette might be a non-profit, but its still a business with a bottom line. And like businesses all over the country, people are forced to adapt to the realities at hand. Whether the humanities programs want to acknowledge it or not, there are market forces and demographic shifts shrinking the pool of people willing to spend $50k+ a year for college. The pandemic only put that into hyper drive. You can widen the net as much as you want as some have proposed, but people will still scoff at that dollar amount without a reasonable return on investment(i.e. a salary after graduation). Some programs at Marquette(Engineering, Health Sciences, Business, Nursing) have that ROI while still teaching the required core curriculum, Marquette would be wise to grow those programs where they see fit.
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MU, and I'm sure a lot of the other Jesuit schools, are facing a real issue with this. It may not be Catholicism per se, but the Jesuit way of educating has been a major part of their identity since their founding. I don't know how much the market values the core curriculum, and those departments have become a financial anchor. My fear is that MU loses that core identity. At that point, the biggest differentiating factor between MU and a state school is cost, and that doesn't work in MU's favor.
To suggest that Marquette is anything but a Roman Catholic institution would be to change its mission, basic philosophy and approach to education in such a way as to make Marquette unrecognizable to those of us who matriculated there in before 2000. Roman Catholic teaching is the core of everything Marquette is and transcends Philosophy and Theology.
Sure, the University has had its problems when the secular and Catholic elements of its mission collide. Those are well-known and have been thorns in the side of more than a few administrators in recent years. And, of course, there are the purists who think Marquette won't be Catholic enough until it becomes Vatican West.
Marquette's Catholic Mission is evident in everything it does. From the marketing during our basketball games -- which shows folks at Mass, in class and men and women doing real life things for others -- to educational requirements for ethics and morals built into law and other undergraduate classes, Marquette is about fulfilling Jesus' command to love God and love our neighbors as ourselves. Even the BLM patches and the anti-racism efforts are tied to that simple, profound commandment Jesus gave us.
The problem, as I intoned earlier, is that with Mass attendance falling and religious affiliation dropping off the charts among the high school set, will there be a place for Marquette, as well as for other religious-based institutions in the decades ahead? We're headed for another baby-bust anyway, but if Marquette becomes a college in which it competes based on Engineering, Business, Law, Nursing and Physical Therapy, it can't compete against the Big 10 schools, all of whom have massive state support for their mission. I certainly don't think this is unique to Marquette and I'll bet that even Notre Dame will face some of this same problem as religious practice diminishes.
As a final thought, I've been a strident supporter of Marquette as long as I can remember. I'm grateful they were there for me when I was college-age and am appreciative of the fact not only that Marquette encouraged "life long learning," but made the effort to work with who we all are and were to mold people who make a difference. That is Marquette's difference and it does come from the precepts of Roman Catholicism.
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Respectfully disagree. As a non-Catholic, I never felt that Marquette was overtly Catholic during my attendance. My room mate went to church on Sundays (or at night sometimes), but I never stepped foot in Gesu until two years ago. I never felt like religion was pushed on me outside of being required to take my two Theology classes. I think the Catholic angle works more on the older generations than it does the current generations. I never understand it when people say that they have, "strong Catholic ideals" because I didn't grow up with those ideals... but at the same time, those ideals are part of my personal ideology. I didn't need religion to learn to be a good person.
I had RC, Jewish, and Muslim classmates while at Marquette, as well as people like myself who don't agree with organized religion. I am grateful that Marquette never attempted to alienate people from other faiths, nor was there a strong attempt to proselytize the 'others' towards RC. I'm not suggesting that Marquette become secular, but I think the RC angle is a selling point to wealthy parents who write checks. I certainly didn't attend MU for religious reasons. I attended because it is a respected school that produces strong alumni and offers high rates of job placements.
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Respectfully disagree. As a non-Catholic, I never felt that Marquette was overtly Catholic during my attendance. . I never felt like religion was pushed on me outside of being required to take my two Theology classes. I think the Catholic angle works more on the older generations than it does the current generations.
Same here. I never found my four years at MU to have any strong religious aspect to it at all. It was an option some availed themselves of. A few classes, yes.
Other than that, with the exception of a few girls in my circle of friends .. zero close friends were religious, zero friends went to mass.
I recognize that there were people who did, sure. My wife and some of her friends, yes.
I imagine that's been the trend for 25+ years now.
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Marquette's Catholic Mission is evident in everything it does. From the marketing during our basketball games -- which shows folks at Mass, in class and men and women doing real life things for others -- to educational requirements for ethics and morals built into law and other undergraduate classes, Marquette is about fulfilling Jesus' command to love God and love our neighbors as ourselves. Even the BLM patches and the anti-racism efforts are tied to that simple, profound commandment Jesus gave us.
...
As a final thought, I've been a strident supporter of Marquette as long as I can remember. I'm grateful they were there for me when I was college-age and am appreciative of the fact not only that Marquette encouraged "life long learning," but made the effort to work with who we all are and were to mold people who make a difference. That is Marquette's difference and it does come from the precepts of Roman Catholicism.
I think these two paragraphs are really the key here. And in short, get you a school that can do both. Anecdotally, it feels like MU must satisfy its donor base's desire for a Catholic identity on one hand, while acknolwedging that the value of that identity in today's marketplace is much lower than it was. If you project the image a disproportionate number of your donors want, you are shooting yourself in the foot to compete for the students you want to matriculate today, who you are hoping will be your donor base 20-30 years for now. But yet you can't make the infrastructural and other investments without the funds supplied by the donors. Can be a tough needle to thread.
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"How can a Catholic school have a Pride week?" is a question I have been asked more than once.
I would like to point out the priest wearing the rainbow colored button, but that only starts a whole different conversation.
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Respectfully disagree. As a non-Catholic, I never felt that Marquette was overtly Catholic during my attendance. My room mate went to church on Sundays (or at night sometimes), but I never stepped foot in Gesu until two years ago. I never felt like religion was pushed on me outside of being required to take my two Theology classes. I think the Catholic angle works more on the older generations than it does the current generations. I never understand it when people say that they have, "strong Catholic ideals" because I didn't grow up with those ideals... but at the same time, those ideals are part of my personal ideology. I didn't need religion to learn to be a good person.
I had RC, Jewish, and Muslim classmates while at Marquette, as well as people like myself who don't agree with organized religion. I am grateful that Marquette never attempted to alienate people from other faiths, nor was there a strong attempt to proselytize the 'others' towards RC. I'm not suggesting that Marquette become secular, but I think the RC angle is a selling point to wealthy parents who write checks. I certainly didn't attend MU for religious reasons. I attended because it is a respected school that produces strong alumni and offers high rates of job placements.
Much depends on how one defines what it means to be Roman Catholic. If it is evangelical you want and it's evangelical that defines commitment to a faith, Marquette aint it! Never has been. Never will be! Had Marquette taken an evangelical approach to the faith, I'd probably run for the Kettle Moraine as fast as my feet could take me. And I probably would not have stopped. For I was raised in a large city that was effectively run by true evangelicals and the damage they did hindered the community for generations.
Marquette's approach to Roman Catholicism comes in the Great Commandment: Love God and Love thy Neighbor as thyself. It's why Protestants, Jews, Muslims, folks from eastern faiths and folks that have no religious beliefs can find a home at Marquette. The university's approach to conveying the Good News is somewhat clandestine -- more preaching through practice of God's teaching in daily life rather than Preaching about Practicing. The way the curriculum is structured is focused on implementing how we treat neighbors rather than screaming Catholic teaching. In fact, I recall a family debate when a sister announced she was taking a class called "Protestant Theological Thought." At a Catholic university no less!!
Mass is there if you want it -- and many people on campus do -- but nobody takes attendance nor do people look down on you if you don't go. That's part of recognizing that being Catholic means acceptance and not being judgmental. And, it means the gifts we have, the values we hold and the choices we make are guided by a set of teachings given to us by a power far greater than us whose love for us is unending. That's what I believe Marquette teaches. The whole mantra of "Be the Difference" is wrapped up in the concept that we're to love one another.
Brother Fluff, a Catholic University can and should have a Pride week! Just like we should believe Black Lives Matter! Our own Pope has raised serious questions about the way we treat gay and lesbian people on grounds we're all God's children. I know it makes a lot of people cringe, but Jesus didn't come among us to make the powers of the day comfortable! Nor does the current Pope!
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How so?
I know a complaint people had about Pilarz is he “wanted MU to be Georgetown” and fellow grads who told me that, including some 3M’s, considered that a betrayal of MU’s ideals.
I IMO, I do think we need to lower admission rates and be more selective. We should be the top Jesuit school in the Midwest and top 5 nationally. We’ve slipped behind LMU, Santa Clara, and Gonzaga. Being ahead of LUC and SLU doesn’t excite me.
MU probably would have always been slightly behind LMU, Santa Clara and Gonzaga since their metrics are a tad below each but it wasn't apparent because all 3 of those schools were in the USNWR Regional University until a year ago. Now that they, and several other similar schools have moved up to the National University category MU's ranking has slipped slightly as a result. Since you mentioned Pilarz, I know one of his key goals, which he achieved when we was President, was to increase MU's Carnegie Classification from the lowest tier of Doctoral Universities to the 2nd highest category which is an R2 Doctoral University with "High Research Activity". That was a significant achievement. Not sure it's realistic for a school like Marquette to ever become an R1 institution without a medical school and other major graduate activity but that's ok. Overall though I completely agree with Billy H. and Trump loves the BE's sentiment on this issue. MU talks a big game about wanting to be a true "NATIONAL UNIVERSITY" but at the end of the day they're unwilling to do what it takes to become one because it means having to kow-tow to elitist snobs on the coasts. They've made it clear they don't want those kinds of students and now they're paying the price. From my vantage point, MU seems more interested in being a social service arm of the Catholic Church than a University. Don't get me wrong, their mission is admirable, and I'm all for altruism, but MU wears their mission on their sleeve to a much greater extent than its Jesuit and other Catholic peer schools. In short, they've taken their eye off of the academic ball so to speak and it's hurt them.
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Marquette's approach to Roman Catholicism comes in the Great Commandment: Love God and Love thy Neighbor as thyself. It's why Protestants, Jews, Muslims, folks from eastern faiths and folks that have no religious beliefs can find a home at Marquette. The university's approach to conveying the Good News is somewhat clandestine -- more preaching through practice of God's teaching in daily life rather than Preaching about Practicing. The way the curriculum is structured is focused on implementing how we treat neighbors rather than screaming Catholic teaching. In fact, I recall a family debate when a sister announced she was taking a class called "Protestant Theological Thought." At a Catholic university no less!!
Mass is there if you want it -- and many people on campus do -- but nobody takes attendance nor do people look down on you if you don't go. That's part of recognizing that being Catholic means acceptance and not being judgmental. And, it means the gifts we have, the values we hold and the choices we make are guided by a set of teachings given to us by a power far greater than us whose love for us is unending. That's what I believe Marquette teaches. The whole mantra of "Be the Difference" is wrapped up in the concept that we're to love one another.
Protestant Thought and Practice. The only Theo class in which I did not pull an A, and my grandfather was a pastor. Senioritis, man...
We also need to understand the Jesuit influence. The Society was created to educate and bring people back to the church after the Reformation.It also bases itself around the ideal of "Cura Personalis." It meant so much to my wife in shaping her values she has a tattoo of it. MU and other Jesuit schools are not going to be strict and dogmatic. If a student wants that they can go to the University of Dallas or Ave Maria.
I had one dude on my floor who didn't want me attending the McCormick 10pm Mass because I was not Catholic, but he was certainly an outlier. I found Catholic students and faculty, especially Priests, open and welcoming. I wouldn't have made it though THEO 001 without the help of my prof, a Priest.
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MU probably would have always been slightly behind LMU, Santa Clara and Gonzaga since their metrics are a tad below each but it wasn't apparent because all 3 of those schools were in the USNWR Regional University until a year ago. Now that they, and several other similar schools have moved up to the National University category MU's ranking has slipped slightly as a result. Since you mentioned Pilarz, I know one of his key goals, which he achieved when we was President, was to increase MU's Carnegie Classification from the lowest tier of Doctoral Universities to the 2nd highest category which is an R2 Doctoral University with "High Research Activity". That was a significant achievement. Not sure it's realistic for a school like Marquette to ever become an R1 institution without a medical school and other major graduate activity but that's ok. Overall though I completely agree with Billy H. and Trump loves the BE's sentiment on this issue. MU talks a big game about wanting to be a true "NATIONAL UNIVERSITY" but at the end of the day they're unwilling to do what it takes to become one because it means having to kow-tow to elitist snobs on the coasts. They've made it clear they don't want those kinds of students and now they're paying the price. From my vantage point, MU seems more interested in being a social service arm of the Catholic Church than a University. Don't get me wrong, their mission is admirable, and I'm all for altruism, but MU wears their mission on their sleeve to a much greater extent than its Jesuit and other Catholic peer schools. In short, they've taken their eye off of the academic ball so to speak and it's hurt them.
Two quibbles.
1) Moving to a national university isn't necessarily a 'move up' per se. In fact, I know of schools that would specifically lament moving from a Regional University to a National University.
2) The East Coast is shrinking demographically, ie, among 18 year olds. It's not about kowtowing to snobs, but rather "why compete on the Eastern Seabord when it's shrinking AND there's a bunch of schools out there already?" Competing out there nowadays is doubly tough.
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Two quibbles.
1) Moving to a national university isn't necessarily a 'move up' per se. In fact, I know of schools that would specifically lament moving from a Regional University to a National University.
2) The East Coast is shrinking demographically, ie, among 18 year olds. It's not about kowtowing to snobs, but rather "why compete on the Eastern Seabord when it's shrinking AND there's a bunch of schools out there already?" Competing out there nowadays is doubly tough.
Both Valid Points. Wasn't referring to East Coast specifically, although it's still, and will remain for some time, the most densely populated part of the country. There's also a lot of wealth concentration there and the Big 10 are extremely popular with students there, whose families gladly pay out of state tuition without batting an eye. At the local Jesuit High School near where I live (Fairfield Prep), UW Madison is far more popular a destination than MU. I believe 4 of their students matriculated there in the last class, and they haven't had 4 students matriculate to MU from there in the last 10 years. Everyone in the MU community out there thinks there are so many great schools on the east coast how can MU compete? What they don't realize, because they're not here, is how many students from the Northeast attend colleges in the Midwest.
That said, I agree the West and perhaps South are where there's more opportunity and that's great too! My broader point is, MU has the brand strength to compete for these students, they just don't think they do and that's what's so frustrating. Pilarz was no fool. He knew he could attract students from his former area to come to MU if the board let him, and had he been given the chance I think he would have made inroads on that but instead the board ran him out of town which is a shame.
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Respectfully disagree. As a non-Catholic, I never felt that Marquette was overtly Catholic during my attendance. My room mate went to church on Sundays (or at night sometimes), but I never stepped foot in Gesu until two years ago. I never felt like religion was pushed on me outside of being required to take my two Theology classes. I think the Catholic angle works more on the older generations than it does the current generations. I never understand it when people say that they have, "strong Catholic ideals" because I didn't grow up with those ideals... but at the same time, those ideals are part of my personal ideology. I didn't need religion to learn to be a good person.
I had RC, Jewish, and Muslim classmates while at Marquette, as well as people like myself who don't agree with organized religion. I am grateful that Marquette never attempted to alienate people from other faiths, nor was there a strong attempt to proselytize the 'others' towards RC. I'm not suggesting that Marquette become secular, but I think the RC angle is a selling point to wealthy parents who write checks. I certainly didn't attend MU for religious reasons. I attended because it is a respected school that produces strong alumni and offers high rates of job placements.
(https://i.gifer.com/XdY7.gif)
Agreed completely with this. It just reinforces our discussion that we were at Marquette at the same time. My ideals didn't come from religion, but I largely agree with the ideals and morals of Marquette. And my classmates were notably diverse from a religious perspective, which only made the religion courses I was required to take more interesting.
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Pilarz was no fool. He knew he could attract students from his former area to come to MU if the board let him, and had he been given the chance I think he would have made inroads on that but instead the board ran him out of town which is a shame.
Pilarz ran himself out of town
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Both Valid Points. Wasn't referring to East Coast specifically, although it's still, and will remain for some time, the most densely populated part of the country. There's also a lot of wealth concentration there and the Big 10 are extremely popular with students there, whose families gladly pay out of state tuition without batting an eye. At the local Jesuit High School near where I live (Fairfield Prep), UW Madison is far more popular a destination than MU. I believe 4 of their students matriculated there in the last class, and they haven't had 4 students matriculate to MU from there in the last 10 years. Everyone in the MU community out there thinks there are so many great schools on the east coast how can MU compete? What they don't realize, because they're not here, is how many students from the Northeast attend colleges in the Midwest.
That said, I agree the West and perhaps South are where there's more opportunity and that's great too! My broader point is, MU has the brand strength to compete for these students, they just don't think they do and that's what's so frustrating. Pilarz was no fool. He knew he could attract students from his former area to come to MU if the board let him, and had he been given the chance I think he would have made inroads on that but instead the board ran him out of town which is a shame.
Pilarz was terrible.
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That said, I agree the West and perhaps South are where there's more opportunity and that's great too! My broader point is, MU has the brand strength to compete for these students, they just don't think they do and that's what's so frustrating. Pilarz was no fool. He knew he could attract students from his former area to come to MU if the board let him, and had he been given the chance I think he would have made inroads on that but instead the board ran him out of town which is a shame.
Brother Disco:
Of course, that's where Marquette needs to go. That's where the population growth is occurring.
One need look no further than Nashville. The city grew from about 250,000 in 1950, very few of which were Roman Catholic, to about 2.1 million in the CSA now. Williamson County grew from an outpost town (Franklin) that had a quaint colonial charm to it, to a full-blown mid-south version of Orange County, CA. In the past 25 years, the Catholic community in Middle Tennessee undoubtedly has tripled. The community has gone from one co-ed Roman Catholic high school to two.
Massive population growth also has come to Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham and Orlando (now 2.5 million, thank you very much Disney).
The challenge that Marquette will have in these areas is the same it has in the Midwest. State supported schools are gradually improving and working toward attaining the same academic status as the better Big 10 schools. The University of Tennessee, long ago, took anyone with a pulse and a Tennessee high school degree. Nowadays, one needs a strong GPA and a 27 ACT to be admitted there -- unless, of course, you can play football. Same for Alabama, Florida, Georgia etc.
Plus, you have the problem of dynamiting sun belt students out of mild weather and selling Milwaukee winters! Not as easy as it sounds!
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Pilarz was terrible.
How so? I don't have any insight. All I heard was that he wasn't well liked by many board members because they thought he was elitist and they didn't care for his Northeastern POV. Not sure if that's true....I didn't know the guy but that's what I heard. The faculty apparently liked him more than other administrators.
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How so? I don't have any insight. All I heard was that he wasn't well liked by many board members because they thought he was elitist and they didn't care for his Northeastern POV. Not sure if that's true....I didn't know the guy but that's what I heard. The faculty apparently liked him more than other administrators.
I can’t speak for his running of the university but I do know he would blow off donors and there were financial malfeasance issues involving family members and university funds. That’s a deal breaker for any leader.
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Respectfully disagree. As a non-Catholic, I never felt that Marquette was overtly Catholic during my attendance. My room mate went to church on Sundays (or at night sometimes), but I never stepped foot in Gesu until two years ago. I never felt like religion was pushed on me outside of being required to take my two Theology classes. I think the Catholic angle works more on the older generations than it does the current generations. I never understand it when people say that they have, "strong Catholic ideals" because I didn't grow up with those ideals... but at the same time, those ideals are part of my personal ideology. I didn't need religion to learn to be a good person.
I had RC, Jewish, and Muslim classmates while at Marquette, as well as people like myself who don't agree with organized religion. I am grateful that Marquette never attempted to alienate people from other faiths, nor was there a strong attempt to proselytize the 'others' towards RC. I'm not suggesting that Marquette become secular, but I think the RC angle is a selling point to wealthy parents who write checks. I certainly didn't attend MU for religious reasons. I attended because it is a respected school that produces strong alumni and offers high rates of job placements.
Same here. To me, the fact that MU was a Catholic institution was completely irrelevant to my decision to attend and my daily experience.
I have only been in Gesu once...when I wandered in as a student to check out the architecture.
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Back in the news. Faculty write open letter denouncing the potential cuts.
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/12/04/open-letters-take-aim-marquette-budget-cuts
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Pretty long article about lots of issues:
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2020/12/09/troubles-at-marquette-university/
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I think they are being a little hyperbolic on some things in that article.
But some of those financial mis-steps under the "Building for the Future?" heading are...something.
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Pretty long article about lots of issues:
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2020/12/09/troubles-at-marquette-university/
Great article thanks for Posting.
Although I completely disagree with the majority of this group's agenda, they're absolutely right about this:
MYTH 2: The COVID-19 crisis has accelerated the budget timeline of the "demographic cliff."
FACT: MU's recruitment (a 10-20% loss) this fall 2020 underperformed a national decline of 2.5%. This is not because of our Midwest location or COVID-19. It stands in stark contrast to banner enrollment years at Madison, Xavier University, Stevens Point, and Wisconsin Lutheran. Why is that? What can the administration do to change, to serve, and to recruit our students rather than displacing blame onto years-off controversial projections?
MU's recruiting on a national basis is downright awful. This group seems to think the growth can occur almost exclusively within diverse and non-traditional college bound populations. That's all well and good but I'm not convinced there are enough of those folks to make up the difference, so it seems to this alum that MU needs to not only hone in on non the non traditional but hone in even more on the traditional from far reaching places where MU hasn't historically been very popular. All it takes is for one student to matriculate, have a positive experience and then word of mouth takes over. In my area (suburban NYC) Elon and Miami of Ohio are among the most popular places for students to attend. That wasn't the case 10-15 years ago. Who'd have thunk? MU has made zero effort to cultivate a brand for itself outside of the midwest except among Catholic high schools, and even there it's failing. UW Madison is 100x more popular at our local Jesuit high school than MU, and so is Miami of Ohio, both of which are in the midwest, not the northeast, yet the families of these students gladly pay out of state tuition comparable to MU's for an educational experience that's arguably inferior when large class sizes are taken into account.
As Trump Loves the Big East said earlier, Marquette was going on a very good path until Lovell came along. The school had a strategic plan to move MU higher in academic ranking. Lovell came along and they dropped that previous laudable goal. I think the stronger the school is academically the easier it will become to attract the broader base of students they are seeking. Everyone wants to be associated with a winner. Keep the admissions standards up and the yield of admitted students will rise.
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Disco, you are spot on about the myth pointed out in the article. The demographic cliff hasn't hit yet. Other schools, such as the ones mentioned and others, haven't seen these enrollment drop offs.
But again, I don't think you have it right as to the reason for chasing the national rankings. That strategy wasn't really working. In fact, in Lovell's first five years, enrollment actually GREW during his tenure. The Fall 2018 class was 2,162 - the largest class in years. This is long after Marquette abandoned the national ranking strategy. And that's smart. Why? Students and parents don't follow the rankings like they used to. There's too many of them that say different things. Sure they will MARKET to rankings when it suits their purpose. They just don't build strategy around growing in rankings.
Furthermore, when you look at their freshmen data over the last 15 years, the percentage of freshmen from WI and IL is largely unchanged. It has represented somewhere between 70% and 75% each of those years - with no discernable trend in any direction. So the idea that they don'r recruit well nationally compared to how they used to, is false. It's really no different.
The thing that I want to know is, what changed between 2018 and 2020? The strategy of getting more diverse hasn't really changed - they've been at about the same level (upper 20%) since 2015.
I wonder if the financial issues cited in the article means they have had to cut institutional aid, making them less competitive price wise in the marketplace, and THAT'S what's driving enrollment down.
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The thing that I want to know is, what changed between 2018 and 2020? The strategy of getting more diverse hasn't really changed - they've been at about the same level (upper 20%) since 2015.
I wonder if the financial issues cited in the article means they have had to cut institutional aid, making them less competitive price wise in the marketplace, and THAT'S what's driving enrollment down.
I appreciate the article and the responses here.
The article seemed to touch on exactly what I witnessed.
Marquette administration argues that they don’t want to fill up empty seats with lower paying students if there are still some higher paying students out there. The problem, say faculty, is there aren’t many higher paying students to get.
A letter sent to the administration and board by the Marquette Faculty Council on Dec. 3 expresses concerns about “the impact of decision-making that does not appear to be driven by careful analysis.” Among the concerns the faculty express is the move to reduce significantly discounted tuition so more students are paying full tuition.
“Marquette should consider that even a student paying discounted tuition is bringing revenues into the institution,” the faculty group wrote. “Giving the admissions department a larger financial aid pool and greater latitude with the tuition discount rate will also impact student debt ratio,” the faculty add, which, they point out, is a factor in US News and World Report rankings for universities and colleges.
In his most recent interview, Nathan Grawe said he could not specifically speak on Marquette’s situation; however, he did say, “It might be much better off financially to reach into the [financially poorer]student population if the alternative is to simply let the seats go empty.”
I know I have mentioned before as my daughter desperately wanted to go to MU, but not at the price they were offering. She's a sophomore now at XU and very happy, so it worked out. If they increased the offer somewhat she would have been at MU. It was not a large increase request either, but the Dean said he was capped at what they could offer. We still would have been paying much more than the offer, so I was surprised they wouldn't match since as mentioned in this article.
“Marquette should consider that even a student paying discounted tuition is bringing revenues into the institution,”
I can see coming off a large class the year before they probably felt confident they were going to make enrollment projections again instead of seeing the first of several years of enrollment drop. Fluff's possible reason for the decrease does seem very reasonable.
The recent campus projects list sounds like viable ideas, but extremely very bad luck at the timing on a few of them that's an albatross at the end of 2020. Maybe too many to implement, too fast?
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What about the national narrative that is catching that college is too expensive and isn't guaranteeing jobs the way it was? Couple that with Covid.
Are more kids entering trade school, or have schools asked students if they're taking an 'off year' before entering school next year with no Covid measures?
Personally, I think Marquette has overspent on bricks the last two decades. Of course, some of that construction was required... but since I started school (2000) here are the new buildings on campus (I'm probably forgetting some as well).
1. Al McGuire Center
2. Raynor Library
3. Eckstein hall
4. Engineering hall
5. Dentistry building
6. The Commons
7. PA studies building
8. Zilber Hall
9. Athletic and Human Performance Research Center
10. Jes Res
11. Campus Town East
12. Wells Parking Structure
13. Purchased The Marq
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe.
15. Krueger Child Care Center
And special mention goes to the Campus Beautification project started in 2000-2001.
I probably forgot some as well... seems like a lot.
Yes, I realize this was a 20 year time period, so no need to point that out.
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UW Madison is 100x more popular at our local Jesuit high school than MU, and so is Miami of Ohio, both of which are in the midwest, not the northeast, yet the families of these students gladly pay out of state tuition comparable to MU's for an educational experience that's arguably inferior when large class sizes are taken into account.
UW has a gigantic advantage over MU, nationally. UW has gone to 10 serious bowl games in 10 years, 4 of them Rose. They are a Top ~10 team every year. 5 of the past 10 years, they've gotten to the S16 or F4 in basketball.
Sports success .. does wonders for national recognition.
Serious question: If MU had hit the NCAAs ~every year this decade, getting to the ~2nd weekend every other year .. how much better would their economic position be?
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UW has a gigantic advantage over MU, nationally. UW has gone to 10 serious bowl games in 10 years, 4 of them Rose. They are a Top ~10 team every year. 5 of the past 10 years, they've gotten to the S16 or F4 in basketball.
Sports success .. does wonders for national recognition.
Serious question: If MU had hit the NCAAs ~every year this decade, getting to the ~2nd weekend every other year .. how much better would their economic position be?
They might have made enrollment targets.
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I appreciate the article and the responses here.
The article seemed to touch on exactly what I witnessed.
Marquette administration argues that they don’t want to fill up empty seats with lower paying students if there are still some higher paying students out there. The problem, say faculty, is there aren’t many higher paying students to get.
A letter sent to the administration and board by the Marquette Faculty Council on Dec. 3 expresses concerns about “the impact of decision-making that does not appear to be driven by careful analysis.” Among the concerns the faculty express is the move to reduce significantly discounted tuition so more students are paying full tuition.
“Marquette should consider that even a student paying discounted tuition is bringing revenues into the institution,” the faculty group wrote. “Giving the admissions department a larger financial aid pool and greater latitude with the tuition discount rate will also impact student debt ratio,” the faculty add, which, they point out, is a factor in US News and World Report rankings for universities and colleges.
In his most recent interview, Nathan Grawe said he could not specifically speak on Marquette’s situation; however, he did say, “It might be much better off financially to reach into the [financially poorer]student population if the alternative is to simply let the seats go empty.”
I know I have mentioned before as my daughter desperately wanted to go to MU, but not at the price they were offering. She's a sophomore now at XU and very happy, so it worked out. If they increased the offer somewhat she would have been at MU. It was not a large increase request either, but the Dean said he was capped at what they could offer. We still would have been paying much more than the offer, so I was surprised they wouldn't match since as mentioned in this article.
“Marquette should consider that even a student paying discounted tuition is bringing revenues into the institution,”
I can see coming off a large class the year before they probably felt confident they were going to make enrollment projections again instead of seeing the first of several years of enrollment drop. Fluff's possible reason for the decrease does seem very reasonable.
The recent campus projects list sounds like viable ideas, but extremely very bad luck at the timing on a few of them that's an albatross at the end of 2020. Maybe too many to implement, too fast?
I actually thought of your story when typing that paragraph. The problem wasn't necessary the refusal to match - a lot of schools have that policy. The problem may have been the initial offer just wasn't competitive.
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What about the national narrative that is catching that college is too expensive and isn't guaranteeing jobs the way it was? Couple that with Covid.
Are more kids entering trade school, or have schools asked students if they're taking an 'off year' before entering school next year with no Covid measures?
Personally, I think Marquette has overspent on bricks the last two decades. Of course, some of that construction was required... but since I started school (2000) here are the new buildings on campus (I'm probably forgetting some as well).
1. Al McGuire Center
2. Raynor Library
3. Eckstein hall
4. Engineering hall
5. Dentistry building
6. The Commons
7. PA studies building
8. Zilber Hall
9. Athletic and Human Performance Research Center
10. Jes Res
11. Campus Town East
12. Wells Parking Structure
13. Purchased The Marq
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe.
15. Krueger Child Care Center
And special mention goes to the Campus Beautification project started in 2000-2001.
I probably forgot some as well... seems like a lot.
Yes, I realize this was a 20 year time period, so no need to point that out.
Looking at the buildings that those projects replaced, I think the vast majority were sensible. Buying The Marq was a bad move, IMO. And I'm curious why the Commons came in so over budget.
I think MU has been fine with building, but have made some awful bets on acquiring land/buildings. The APRC/on-campus arena debacle being at the top of the list.
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Looking at the buildings that those projects replaced, I think the vast majority were sensible. Buying The Marq was a bad move, IMO. And I'm curious why the Commons came in so over budget.
I think MU has been fine with building, but have made some awful bets on acquiring land/buildings. The APRC/on-campus arena debacle being at the top of the list.
What is rather surprising to me is that the buildings for sciences felt extremely dated when I was in school... and they're still there and being used.
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They are really expensive to replace. I think they are planning to replace Todd Wehr and Wehr Life Sciences as part of the Master Plan, but who knows when that will be.
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They are really expensive to replace. I think they are planning to replace Todd Wehr and Wehr Life Sciences as part of the Master Plan, but who knows when that will be.
When my younger daughter toured MU way back in February of this year I recall this being mentioned on the tour.
Along the lines of "they are next in line for building upgrades after the Business school is done."
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See should change hour nickname ta Falcons and murge wit Concordia, aina?
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They are really expensive to replace. I think they are planning to replace Todd Wehr and Wehr Life Sciences as part of the Master Plan, but who knows when that will be.
Chemistry building opened in 1966
Physics opened 1973
Life Sciences 1962
Schroeder complex will be 100 years old in 2 years. Yikes!
Straz hall built in 1951 and refurbished in 1984.
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I actually thought of your story when typing that paragraph. The problem wasn't necessary the refusal to match - a lot of schools have that policy. The problem may have been the initial offer just wasn't competitive.
Fluff,
I'm curious what kind of offer my younger daughter will receive. If it reflects a shift in strategy/thought from MU. She should hear something from MU this month. She applied to Nursing, so I don't know if that fits the equation differently? My older daughter was a very good student and my younger daughter is even better. She already got accepted from XU with a bigger offer than my older daughter. She's still waiting on her other six schools too.
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What about the national narrative that is catching that college is too expensive and isn't guaranteeing jobs the way it was? Couple that with Covid.
Are more kids entering trade school, or have schools asked students if they're taking an 'off year' before entering school next year with no Covid measures?
Personally, I think Marquette has overspent on bricks the last two decades. Of course, some of that construction was required... but since I started school (2000) here are the new buildings on campus (I'm probably forgetting some as well).
1. Al McGuire Center
2. Raynor Library
3. Eckstein hall
4. Engineering hall
5. Dentistry building
6. The Commons
7. PA studies building
8. Zilber Hall
9. Athletic and Human Performance Research Center
10. Jes Res
11. Campus Town East
12. Wells Parking Structure
13. Purchased The Marq
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe.
15. Krueger Child Care Center
And special mention goes to the Campus Beautification project started in 2000-2001.
I probably forgot some as well... seems like a lot.
Yes, I realize this was a 20 year time period, so no need to point that out.
some of those were much needed and strategic for recruitment and enrollment:
1. Al McGuire Center - privately funded, badly needed for the basketball program
2. Raynor Library - MU actually cut back on this not making it an actual library and keeping Memorial around.
5. Dentistry building - got a lot of state funding for this. Was very much needed
6. The Commons - badly needed, though I understanding came in over budget. Residence halls are a major recruitment tool and ours are way behind others.
7. PA studies building - PA is becoming an attractive career path and with our lack of a medical school, it made sense to launch the program.
11. Campus Town East - badly needed as well, though they should have found a way to incorporate the 'Lanche. When I was looking at schools and toured MU the original Campus Town was being built and was a draw for my family and me knowing there was going to be great off-campus" housing available so close to campus in a safe area (coming from a small town my mom was concerned about the neighborhood around MU.
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe. - This was a renovation, not a newly constructed building. East actually closed in 1996 due to declining enrollment. With increased enrollment, it was needed and became the "cool" dorm on campus.
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Disco, you are spot on about the myth pointed out in the article. The demographic cliff hasn't hit yet. Other schools, such as the ones mentioned and others, haven't seen these enrollment drop offs.
But again, I don't think you have it right as to the reason for chasing the national rankings. That strategy wasn't really working. In fact, in Lovell's first five years, enrollment actually GREW during his tenure. The Fall 2018 class was 2,162 - the largest class in years. This is long after Marquette abandoned the national ranking strategy. And that's smart. Why? Students and parents don't follow the rankings like they used to. There's too many of them that say different things. Sure they will MARKET to rankings when it suits their purpose. They just don't build strategy around growing in rankings.
Furthermore, when you look at their freshmen data over the last 15 years, the percentage of freshmen from WI and IL is largely unchanged. It has represented somewhere between 70% and 75% each of those years - with no discernable trend in any direction. So the idea that they don'r recruit well nationally compared to how they used to, is false. It's really no different.
The thing that I want to know is, what changed between 2018 and 2020? The strategy of getting more diverse hasn't really changed - they've been at about the same level (upper 20%) since 2015.
I wonder if the financial issues cited in the article means they have had to cut institutional aid, making them less competitive price wise in the marketplace, and THAT'S what's driving enrollment down.
Makes sense, and I too, am less concerned with Rankings as I used to be for the reasons you mentioned. That and the fact there just isn't that much upside potential for them to move up to with more and more schools entering the "NATIONAL UNIVERSITY" category. I think they can realistically move up 7-8 spots and that would be nice but it's impact on enrollment would be negligible if non-existent. The only other thing I'd add with regard to rankings is that I do think's crucial they maintain a top 100 position. Hopefully they will continue to.
The acceptance rate, (while I agree is a stupid way to evaluate an institution) is still a big problem particularly with prospective students and their parents in the NE who believe it does matter. The fact that they're wrong isn't relevant. You and I may agree on that but the market at least out here disagrees. I'm not saying MU needs to become anything close to elite but the difference in perception between 85% and 68% is enormous and that doesn't go over well in the wealthy suburbs of Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, DC. The types of suburbs where a starter home that needs a six figure renovation still costs at least $1M.
While recruiting more students from these places may seem anathema to MU's mission at first glance, if they had more of these students who's families pay a higher share of the sticker price, they could provide more meaningful assistance to the minority and non-traditional students they are seeking. Many other institutions have instituted extremely targeted recruiting strategies in these zip codes with great success. I think MU needs to do more of this, not just in the NE but everywhere, and stop preaching about the mission and start executing the mission which they could implement more successfully if they had a wealthier student base.
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some of those were much needed and strategic for recruitment and enrollment:
1. Al McGuire Center - privately funded, badly needed for the basketball program
2. Raynor Library - MU actually cut back on this not making it an actual library and keeping Memorial around.
5. Dentistry building - got a lot of state funding for this. Was very much needed
6. The Commons - badly needed, though I understanding came in over budget. Residence halls are a major recruitment tool and ours are way behind others.
7. PA studies building - PA is becoming an attractive career path and with our lack of a medical school, it made sense to launch the program.
11. Campus Town East - badly needed as well, though they should have found a way to incorporate the 'Lanche. When I was looking at schools and toured MU the original Campus Town was being built and was a draw for my family and me knowing there was going to be great off-campus" housing available so close to campus in a safe area (coming from a small town my mom was concerned about the neighborhood around MU.
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe. - This was a renovation, not a newly constructed building. East actually closed in 1996 due to declining enrollment. With increased enrollment, it was needed and became the "cool" dorm on campus.
Yeah, they were all necessary, but spreading them out a little more spreads out the financial burden.
I'm not sure East was 'cool'. I lived there in '01-'02. It was new, had a gym, and had the newest everything. But it didn't seem like a dorm.
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Yeah, they were all necessary, but spreading them out a little more spreads out the financial burden.
I'm not sure East was 'cool'. I lived there in '01-'02. It was new, had a gym, and had the newest everything. But it didn't seem like a dorm.
"cool" as in being in demand. People suddenly wanted to live there instead of being assigned there because they couldn't get in anywhere else. When I was a RA in the mid-90's East was not close to full and many of the RA's didn't want to be assigned there.
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Makes sense, and I too, am less concerned with Rankings as I used to be for the reasons you mentioned. That and the fact there just isn't that much upside potential for them to move up to with more and more schools entering the "NATIONAL UNIVERSITY" category. I think they can realistically move up 7-8 spots and that would be nice but it's impact on enrollment would be negligible if non-existent. The only other thing I'd add with regard to rankings is that I do think's crucial they maintain a top 100 position. Hopefully they will continue to.
The acceptance rate, (while I agree is a stupid way to evaluate an institution) is still a big problem particularly with prospective students and their parents in the NE who believe it does matter. The fact that they're wrong isn't relevant. You and I may agree on that but the market at least out here disagrees. I'm not saying MU needs to become anything close to elite but the difference in perception between 85% and 68% is enormous and that doesn't go over well in the wealthy suburbs of Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, DC. The types of suburbs where a starter home that needs a six figure renovation still costs at least $1M.
While recruiting more students from these places may seem anathema to MU's mission at first glance, if they had more of these students who's families pay a higher share of the sticker price, they could provide more meaningful assistance to the minority and non-traditional students they are seeking. Many other institutions have instituted extremely targeted recruiting strategies in these zip codes with great success. I think MU needs to do more of this, not just in the NE but everywhere, and stop preaching about the mission and start executing the mission which they could implement more successfully if they had a wealthier student base.
Looking at their first year student data, the percentage of students from the northeast hasn't substantially changed over the last decade and a half. So I don't know what to say.
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Yeah, they were all necessary, but spreading them out a little more spreads out the financial burden.
I'm not sure East was 'cool'. I lived there in '01-'02. It was new, had a gym, and had the newest everything. But it didn't seem like a dorm.
Is East the old YMCA?
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Is East the old YMCA?
Yeah, but it was refurbished really well and felt brand new when I moved in. One of the best sells for the place was the AC, and your own bathroom.
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Marquette’s Board of Trustees met last week to pass the budget for FY 2022.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteUnited/status/1336014438638505986 (https://twitter.com/MarquetteUnited/status/1336014438638505986)
Paraphrasing the Twitter post above:
- The budget projects a FY22 shortfall in the neighborhood of 30M dollars. Significantly less than the 45M projected by admin since August.
- The budget adds in an entirely new requirement for the university to maintain a 3% (12.1M) surplus to “provide room for investing in projects of strategic priority.”
- There is also an 8M contingency fund also going unspent. Elsewhere in the document the Board is electing not to increase the endowment spend rate, or sell property, or use low-interest borrowing as a bridge or use cash on hand.
At the Academic Senate meeting yesterday a number of faculty were livid that the administration still plans on going ahead with cuts in some cases entire programs, like the graduate history program being cut when there is a 12 million surplus.
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Marquette’s Board of Trustees met last week to pass the budget for FY 2022.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteUnited/status/1336014438638505986 (https://twitter.com/MarquetteUnited/status/1336014438638505986)
Paraphrasing the Twitter post above:
- The budget projects a FY22 shortfall in the neighborhood of 30M dollars. Significantly less than the 45M projected by admin since August.
- The budget adds in an entirely new requirement for the university to maintain a 3% (12.1M) surplus to “provide room for investing in projects of strategic priority.”
- There is also an 8M contingency fund also going unspent. Elsewhere in the document the Board is electing not to increase the endowment spend rate, or sell property, or use low-interest borrowing as a bridge or use cash on hand.
At the Academic Senate meeting yesterday a number of faculty were livid that the administration still plans on going ahead with cuts in some cases entire programs, like the graduate history program being cut when there is a 12 million surplus.
I’m sorry but whomever is running that Twitter account has no clue what they’re talking about. Refusing to increase your endowment spend rate, eliminating your contingency and refusing to borrow money to meet operations are NOT examples of “austerity.” That’s how you effectively manage a University so it doesn’t get worse.
Look I get that the University has made some bad decisions to get them in this mess, but compounding those decisions won’t make things better in the long run.
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I’m sorry but whomever is running that Twitter account has no clue what they’re talking about. Refusing to increase your endowment spend rate, eliminating your contingency and refusing to borrow money to meet operations are NOT examples of “austerity.” That’s how you effectively manage a University so it doesn’t get worse.
Look I get that the University has made some bad decisions to get them in this mess, but compounding those decisions won’t make things better in the long run.
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Concur. Private universities can’t lobbying for more state aid and have to steer themselves financially before things get bad. MU laid off a bunch of faculty when I arrived in the mid 1990s. Things turned out okay.
Separately, I never felt a welcoming Catholic vibe at Marquette. The Neumann Center at my undergrad public university was far better than a whole institution that was supposedly Catholic. This really didn’t bother me because went for an academic program, not a specific college lifestyle or Catholic experience.
The program I attended is on the chopping block, but as faculty has changed out it has replaced academic rigor and a non-ideological methodological approach grounded in academic discipline with political activism and niche concentrations that don’t prepare people for employment. It won’t bother me to see it disappear.
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What about the national narrative that is catching that college is too expensive and isn't guaranteeing jobs the way it was? Couple that with Covid.
Are more kids entering trade school, or have schools asked students if they're taking an 'off year' before entering school next year with no Covid measures?
Personally, I think Marquette has overspent on bricks the last two decades. Of course, some of that construction was required... but since I started school (2000) here are the new buildings on campus (I'm probably forgetting some as well).
1. Al McGuire Center
2. Raynor Library
3. Eckstein hall
4. Engineering hall
5. Dentistry building
6. The Commons
7. PA studies building
8. Zilber Hall
9. Athletic and Human Performance Research Center
10. Jes Res
11. Campus Town East
12. Wells Parking Structure
13. Purchased The Marq
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe.
15. Krueger Child Care Center
And special mention goes to the Campus Beautification project started in 2000-2001.
I probably forgot some as well... seems like a lot.
Yes, I realize this was a 20 year time period, so no need to point that out.
This... and in the process lost the "more bars per student than any other university" mantra that lured so many of us in the 80's.
Time to get back to basics... the Catholic thing hooks the parents, the bars hook the kid. Good basketball is a bonus. Job done.
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This... and in the process lost the "more bars per student than any other university" mantra that lured so many of us in the 80's.
Time to get back to basics... the Catholic thing hooks the parents, the bars hook the kid. Good basketball is a bonus. Job done.
wasn't Wild the one that made it his mission to get rid of most the bars and such around campus? I mean Angelos and Hag's closed after my freshman year so it wasn't Pillarz or Lovell but most people view Wild's tenure as successful as I recall.
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wasn't Wild the one that made it his mission to get rid of most the bars and such around campus? I mean Angelos and Hag's closed after my freshman year so it wasn't Pillarz or Lovell but most people view Wild's tenure as successful as I recall.
It started under DiUlio
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wasn't Wild the one that made it his mission to get rid of most the bars and such around campus? I mean Angelos and Hag's closed after my freshman year so it wasn't Pillarz or Lovell but most people view Wild's tenure as successful as I recall.
Yes - the point of the poster hasn't been true for a very long time and the strategy pre-dated Wild. It was the prior President who bought up all the real estate with the goal of cleaning up the neighborhood immediately surrounding the school. For ref, I started at MU in Wild's first year.
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Did everyone receive the Mike Lovell message this afternoon?
Matthew 7:25
“And the rains blew and beat on the house, but it did not fall,
because it had been founded on rock.”
Dear Marquette alumni, parents and friends,
As we close our first semester in the most unique academic year in our 139-year history and enter further into the sacred season of Advent, I have been reflecting on the constancy and strength of our Catholic, Jesuit foundation. Past Marquette generations have overcome great depressions, world wars and previous health pandemics. Our predecessors remind us that we have served at the forefront of racial justice movements for decades, inspiring our important work today. I have long admired Marquette’s gritty spirit of resilience, perseverance and faith, which will continue to propel us forward into the future.
For several years prior to COVID-19, we forecasted significant disruption to higher education. While the pandemic has accelerated this disruption, our strategic plan and vision fueled several important academic steps that have put us in a position to succeed for the next generation. Today, I will briefly highlight five of these academic steps:
* Major growth in the College of Nursing: We live in a world where the impact of nursing has never been more important. Nearly four years ago, we opened a satellite campus in Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin. Since then, nearly 400 new graduate students have fulfilled their calling to become a Marquette Nurse. We have bold plans to grow the number of Marquette Nurses around the world and make an even bigger difference.
* Jesuit-educated data scientists: In 2016, Marquette became one of the first universities in the nation to launch an undergraduate data sciences major. As the world’s technology base quickly grows, so does the need for Jesuit-educated professionals to ethically analyze how data drives decisions. Today, we have more than 700 students in data science courses, spanning nine colleges.
* Enhanced core of common studies: Rooted in mission, we completed our enhanced core curriculum in 2018 to improve the way we connect students to their studies and the world. We’ve created a more meaningful package of philosophy, theology and humanities courses that incorporates disciplines across campus and better prepares students to face the world’s complex moral issues.
* Physician Assistant expansion: To address a major provider gap in primary care, we constructed a new facility in summer 2019 for our nationally ranked Physician Assistant Studies program. Access to excellent health care was at the heart of our strategic growth plan, and we have begun delivering on our promise to educate more mission-centered, highly qualified physician assistants.
* A world-class home for Marquette Business: We continue to gain momentum on our fundraising efforts to build a new home for Marquette Business and innovation leadership programs. Thanks to our generous alumni, parents and friends, this once-in-a-lifetime project is now firmly within reach. Our new state-of-the-art facility, which has a unique collaboration with the Opus College of Engineering, will be 100% donor funded and built for the future, featuring advanced technology and flexible spaces that don’t currently exist.
As we look ahead, we face many difficult decisions. Rest assured that Marquette is on the move, and we are proud of the numerous ways we are helping to solve some of the world’s most complex problems.
Sincerely,
President Lovell's Signature
Dr. Michael R. Lovell
President, Marquette University
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wasn't Wild the one that made it his mission to get rid of most the bars and such around campus? I mean Angelos and Hag's closed after my freshman year so it wasn't Pillarz or Lovell but most people view Wild's tenure as successful as I recall.
I am sure the raising of the drinking age to 21 did as much to kill the bars around campus as any deliberate action on the part of MU. Also, how many of you alums have been to the few remaining bars around campus within the past couple of years? They are pretty dead, even on the weekends. The kids who are drinking in bars go downtown now.
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Did everyone receive the Mike Lovell message this afternoon?
I received it. Seemed kind of odd as there wasn’t really an ask or a reason given. Is that to go with a donation request?
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I received it. Seemed kind of odd as there wasn’t really an ask or a reason given. Is that to go with a donation request?
Just an update with some points of pride thrown in.
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Yes - the point of the poster hasn't been true for a very long time and the strategy pre-dated Wild. It was the prior President who bought up all the real estate with the goal of cleaning up the neighborhood immediately surrounding the school. For ref, I started at MU in Wild's first year.
DiUlio also aggressively went after the party houses before he left in 1995-96. There were a lot of houses busted that year. The notorious "Wet Spot" got something like a $60K fine for a party during Orientation weekend. I remember many of my residents coming back with $650 MIP citations.
MU is not alone in seeing the "party scene" dialed back. Tuition costs are a big part of it. And, as also mentioned, downtown is a bigger destination. Friday nights were for Water Street happy hour crawls.
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Makes sense, and I too, am less concerned with Rankings as I used to be for the reasons you mentioned. That and the fact there just isn't that much upside potential for them to move up to with more and more schools entering the "NATIONAL UNIVERSITY" category. I think they can realistically move up 7-8 spots and that would be nice but it's impact on enrollment would be negligible if non-existent. The only other thing I'd add with regard to rankings is that I do think's crucial they maintain a top 100 position. Hopefully they will continue to.
The acceptance rate, (while I agree is a stupid way to evaluate an institution) is still a big problem particularly with prospective students and their parents in the NE who believe it does matter. The fact that they're wrong isn't relevant. You and I may agree on that but the market at least out here disagrees. I'm not saying MU needs to become anything close to elite but the difference in perception between 85% and 68% is enormous and that doesn't go over well in the wealthy suburbs of Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, DC. The types of suburbs where a starter home that needs a six figure renovation still costs at least $1M.
While recruiting more students from these places may seem anathema to MU's mission at first glance, if they had more of these students who's families pay a higher share of the sticker price, they could provide more meaningful assistance to the minority and non-traditional students they are seeking. Many other institutions have instituted extremely targeted recruiting strategies in these zip codes with great success. I think MU needs to do more of this, not just in the NE but everywhere, and stop preaching about the mission and start executing the mission which they could implement more successfully if they had a wealthier student base.
I think MU admissions department does not understand how it is viewed in the Northeast. If they did they would be more embracing of the views you have articulated many times. They are missing out on a large number of qualified prospects who will come to MU is presented with the opportunity .
MU is seen as a school that is a best value. Quality Education with good brand name at affordable e price. There is a huge untapped market in the Northeast that MU is a great fit for, because what is considered expensive in some other parts of the country is considered a value in the Northeast. Northeast people will pay full sticker less a partial scholarship and what ever other financial aid they can get for MU.
All MU really needs to do is be more proactive in visiting the top public schools in the area. It can be done in a very efficient way. Meet with guidance counselors at top schools in Fairfield County, Westchester County, Nassau County and Northern New Jersey. Go there year after year and explain what MU is all about. The guidance counselors are looking for schools for every kid in the school and MU mission is a good fit for a lot of kids. There is receptivity among the students when they learn about the school. Urban setting is popular with the younger crowd.
MU Jesuit image is also a big plus. Georgetown and BC are among most popular schools outside of the Ivy's . Parents understand that MU is delivering an equivalent education and it is not hard to close the sale for kids who are willing to go away to college. MU needs to be seen as the equivalent of the lower tier Big Ten schools academically and in the same general range as Fordham or Villanova. Thus the admissions rate has to be lower .
Many of the students I have written letters for are considering MU versus a place like Boston University. The total cost of attendance at MU is significantly lower. It just needs to continue to be seen as just as viable. The best way to do that is to put the resources into recruiting beyond just the same old catholic high schools.
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DiUlio also aggressively went after the party houses before he left in 1995-96. There were a lot of houses busted that year. The notorious "Wet Spot" got something like a $60K fine for a party during Orientation weekend. I remember many of my residents coming back with $650 MIP citations.
MU is not alone in seeing the "party scene" dialed back. Tuition costs are a big part of it. And, as also mentioned, downtown is a bigger destination. Friday nights were for Water Street happy hour crawls.
When I was a Junior ('02) the only bars on campus that I can recall were Murph's, Caffs, Heg's, and the Glock. Conways, and H&S were still there, but they weren't exactly the typical party scene for 21 and 22 year olds. Now Heg's and the Glock are long gone. So, if I'm not mistaken there are only the two bars left on campus, correct?
Towards the end of college we started taking the LIMOs and asking to jump out at the closest corner near Water Street. Taxis would have cost us each a drink, so we walked.
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Did everyone receive the Mike Lovell message this afternoon?
Matthew 7:25
“And the rains blew and beat on the house, but it did not fall,
because it had been founded on rock.”
Dear Marquette alumni, parents and friends,
As we close our first semester in the most unique academic year in our 139-year history and enter further into the sacred season of Advent, I have been reflecting on the constancy and strength of our Catholic, Jesuit foundation. Past Marquette generations have overcome great depressions, world wars and previous health pandemics. Our predecessors remind us that we have served at the forefront of racial justice movements for decades, inspiring our important work today. I have long admired Marquette’s gritty spirit of resilience, perseverance and faith, which will continue to propel us forward into the future.
For several years prior to COVID-19, we forecasted significant disruption to higher education. While the pandemic has accelerated this disruption, our strategic plan and vision fueled several important academic steps that have put us in a position to succeed for the next generation. Today, I will briefly highlight five of these academic steps:
* Major growth in the College of Nursing: We live in a world where the impact of nursing has never been more important. Nearly four years ago, we opened a satellite campus in Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin. Since then, nearly 400 new graduate students have fulfilled their calling to become a Marquette Nurse. We have bold plans to grow the number of Marquette Nurses around the world and make an even bigger difference.
* Jesuit-educated data scientists: In 2016, Marquette became one of the first universities in the nation to launch an undergraduate data sciences major. As the world’s technology base quickly grows, so does the need for Jesuit-educated professionals to ethically analyze how data drives decisions. Today, we have more than 700 students in data science courses, spanning nine colleges.
* Enhanced core of common studies: Rooted in mission, we completed our enhanced core curriculum in 2018 to improve the way we connect students to their studies and the world. We’ve created a more meaningful package of philosophy, theology and humanities courses that incorporates disciplines across campus and better prepares students to face the world’s complex moral issues.
* Physician Assistant expansion: To address a major provider gap in primary care, we constructed a new facility in summer 2019 for our nationally ranked Physician Assistant Studies program. Access to excellent health care was at the heart of our strategic growth plan, and we have begun delivering on our promise to educate more mission-centered, highly qualified physician assistants.
* A world-class home for Marquette Business: We continue to gain momentum on our fundraising efforts to build a new home for Marquette Business and innovation leadership programs. Thanks to our generous alumni, parents and friends, this once-in-a-lifetime project is now firmly within reach. Our new state-of-the-art facility, which has a unique collaboration with the Opus College of Engineering, will be 100% donor funded and built for the future, featuring advanced technology and flexible spaces that don’t currently exist.
As we look ahead, we face many difficult decisions. Rest assured that Marquette is on the move, and we are proud of the numerous ways we are helping to solve some of the world’s most complex problems.
Sincerely,
President Lovell's Signature
Dr. Michael R. Lovell
President, Marquette University
Does MU have a Nurse Practitioner program? I would think many of the course work between NPs and PAs would overlap and having a separate facility for PAs seems inefficient to me.
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Does MU have a Nurse Practitioner program? I would think many of the course work between NPs and PAs would overlap and having a separate facility for PAs seems inefficient to me.
Yes. And they are not the same thing.
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I am sure the raising of the drinking age to 21 did as much to kill the bars around campus as any deliberate action on the part of MU. Also, how many of you alums have been to the few remaining bars around campus within the past couple of years? They are pretty dead, even on the weekends. The kids who are drinking in bars go downtown now.
Funny you mention this. Before the pandemic I was at a wedding in MKE and decided I was going to take a cousin to Caff's for old time sake and it was a complete ghost town. If I wanted that I'd have just gone to JTO's or Harp & Sham.
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Yes. And they are not the same thing.
Yes, but they both require clinical training and why would that have to separated? Would not a collaborative approach be beneficial to both disciplines.
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Yes, but they both require clinical training and why would that have to separated? Would not a collaborative approach be beneficial to both disciplines.
I don't have the level of expertise to explain in detail why clinical training is different, but my MSN daughter could. Also, since clinical training takes place out in the field, for all intents and purposes it is unrelated to facility needs.
Also, the nursing building is already bursting at the seams (their on-campus program has almost double the number of students they had a decade ago), and the PA program was still in a crappy old office building on Wells street decades after they were promised a better facility. Even if they were able to somehow combine aspects of the programs, they still needed the room.
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I don't have the level of expertise to explain in detail why clinical training is different, but my MSN daughter could. Also, since clinical training takes place out in the field, for all intents and purposes it is unrelated to facility needs.
Also, the nursing building is already bursting at the seams (their on-campus program has almost double the number of students they had a decade ago), and the PA program was still in a crappy old office building on Wells street decades after they were promised a better facility. Even if they were able to somehow combine aspects of the programs, they still needed the room.
507 N 17th St, Milwaukee, WI 53233
New PA building, right?
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507 N 17th St, Milwaukee, WI 53233
New PA building, right?
Yep, but they were at 1700 W. Wells before.
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When I was a Junior ('02) the only bars on campus that I can recall were Murph's, Caffs, Heg's, and the Glock. Conways, and H&S were still there, but they weren't exactly the typical party scene for 21 and 22 year olds. Now Heg's and the Glock are long gone. So, if I'm not mistaken there are only the two bars left on campus, correct?
Towards the end of college we started taking the LIMOs and asking to jump out at the closest corner near Water Street. Taxis would have cost us each a drink, so we walked.
Does the Annex count as a bar?
Conway's became a popular place my senior year because with only Murph's, Angelo's, and Heg's "on campus" you got tired of the scene and wanted to get away. Then we started hitting Water Street (take the bus down and walk over from West WI Avenue): 2 for 1 and Brooklyn's, $3 beers at McGillicuddy's, and then $2 22oz from 3-9 at BW3. We'd also head over to the East Side, Judge's had 10 cent wings and $2 beers.
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Does the Annex count as a bar?
Conway's became a popular place my senior year because with only Murph's, Angelo's, and Heg's "on campus" you got tired of the scene and wanted to get away. Then we started hitting Water Street (take the bus down and walk over from West WI Avenue): 2 for 1 and Brooklyn's, $3 beers at McGillicuddy's, and then $2 22oz from 3-9 at BW3. We'd also head over to the East Side, Judge's had 10 cent wings and $2 beers.
Ms Katie's counts as a bar before the Annex.
Judges had its moments. Lost a bet and had to snort a shot of vodka there.
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Does the Annex count as a bar?
Conway's became a popular place my senior year because with only Murph's, Angelo's, and Heg's "on campus" you got tired of the scene and wanted to get away. Then we started hitting Water Street (take the bus down and walk over from West WI Avenue): 2 for 1 and Brooklyn's, $3 beers at McGillicuddy's, and then $2 22oz from 3-9 at BW3. We'd also head over to the East Side, Judge's had 10 cent wings and $2 beers.
The Annex sucked donkey balls. It's really too bad we didn't have a cool indoor/outdoor place like the Rathskellar/Union Terrace at Madison. Obviously, we had no lake, but when you compare the two... ours is embarrassing.
We hit Judge's once in a while for the same deals. I was working, and my friends who were 5th years mostly.
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The Annex sucked donkey balls. It's really too bad we didn't have a cool indoor/outdoor place like the Rathskellar/Union Terrace at Madison. Obviously, we had no lake, but when you compare the two... ours is embarrassing.
We hit Judge's once in a while for the same deals. I was working, and my friends who were 5th years mostly.
Any bar that is part of a university's food service contract is going to suck. The Mugrack reported to the manager of Brooks Union (shoutout to Toby Peters!) and it was cool. I really miss it.
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Any bar that is part of a university's food service contract is going to suck. The Mugrack reported to the manager of Brooks Union (shoutout to Toby Peters!) and it was cool. I really miss it.
Timeout. You tellin me that the Annex fries are McCormick fries?
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The Annex sucked donkey balls. It's really too bad we didn't have a cool indoor/outdoor place like the Rathskellar/Union Terrace at Madison. Obviously, we had no lake, but when you compare the two... ours is embarrassing.
We hit Judge's once in a while for the same deals. I was working, and my friends who were 5th years mostly.
at least the Annex serves beer.
The Pub in the AMU had some potential. I worked there as a senior and we had tap beer. One morning we came in and the kegs were gone and we called PS. Well, the new manager forgot to renew the liquor license and the price had skyrocketed for a "new" license and that was the end of beer there. I don't even think that space is used for anything but storage anymore. Anyone know if the game room is still around? NBA Jam got a lot of my quarters.
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at least the Annex serves beer.
The Pub in the AMU had some potential. I worked there as a senior and we had tap beer. One morning we came in and the kegs were gone and we called PS. Well, the new manager forgot to renew the liquor license and the price had skyrocketed for a "new" license and that was the end of beer there. I don't even think that space is used for anything but storage anymore. Anyone know if the game room is still around? NBA Jam got a lot of my quarters.
Is that what happened? Never hung out there, but remember when the beer disappeared. Lmao.
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Is that what happened? Never hung out there, but remember when the beer disappeared. Lmao.
yep. Everyone was freaked out that we'd been robbed for beer. LOL.
It sucked for us workers as we'd put beer in our soda cups to get us through our shifts.
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I don't have the level of expertise to explain in detail why clinical training is different, but my MSN daughter could. Also, since clinical training takes place out in the field, for all intents and purposes it is unrelated to facility needs.
Also, the nursing building is already bursting at the seams (their on-campus program has almost double the number of students they had a decade ago), and the PA program was still in a crappy old office building on Wells street decades after they were promised a better facility. Even if they were able to somehow combine aspects of the programs, they still needed the room.
Nursing and PA are very big success stories for MU. Administration doing a very good job and the investments are going to pay off for many years .
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Nursing and PA are very big success stories for MU. Administration doing a very good job and the investments are going to pay off for many years .
Absolutely. They are two programs that receive far more qualified applicants than they can accept due to resource limitations.
Whatever reasons you might want to give for enrollment shortfall, you cannot put any blame on these programs.
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I always thought MU could pull off a great fundraiser doing something similar with various buildings that alumni have bad memories of. I'd donate to push the button on Lalumiere.
Bodnar’s Auction site used the headline “Implode Trump Plaza for Charity!” to promote the event. The site goes on to tout the button-pushing win as an “experience… that can be done anywhere in the world.”
“We are selling the experience to push the button to implode Trump Plaza. This will be done remotely and can be done anywhere in the world as well as [as] close to the Plaza as we can safely get you there!” the site reads
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My younger daughter was accepted to Marquette Nursing today. They also upped the Pere Marquette scholarship 15% compared to my older daughter 2 years ago. The amount makes a big difference.
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My younger daughter was accepted to Marquette Nursing today. They also upped the Pere Marquette scholarship 15% compared to my older daughter 2 years ago. The amount makes a big difference.
Congrats to your daughter . She will come out of college with a great career .
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My younger daughter was accepted to Marquette Nursing today. They also upped the Pere Marquette scholarship 15% compared to my older daughter 2 years ago. The amount makes a big difference.
You may already know that Chick Jr. is a Marquette nurse - BSN and MSN. She got a great education. Let me know if your daughter wants to talk to an alum.
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You may already know that Chick Jr. is a Marquette nurse - BSN and MSN. She got a great education. Let me know if your daughter wants to talk to an alum.
Will do w-chick. Thanks
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You may already know that Chick Jr. is a Marquette nurse - BSN and MSN. She got a great education. Let me know if your daughter wants to talk to an alum.
Did your daughter go straight through and get both degrees or did she work for a while and then get the masters ?
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Did your daughter go straight through and get both degrees or did she work for a while and then get the masters ?
(Yeah, I still read here now and again.)
She worked full time as a hospital floor Charge Nurse for about 2 years after getting her BSN. Then she cut back to part time to pursue her MSN and held a TA position at MU to boot. That way she was able to obtain her MSN without any additional debt. Graduated last May with her MSN at age 28 and began her new management level position responsible for the development of two nursing units within her hospital. Again, PM chick if further details or a contact link are helpful.
Peace all.
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(Yeah, I still read here now and again.)
She worked full time as a hospital floor Charge Nurse for about 2 years after getting her BSN. Then she cut back to part time to pursue her MSN and held a TA position at MU to boot. That way she was able to obtain her MSN without any additional debt. Graduated last May with her MSN at age 28 and began her new management level position responsible for the development of two nursing units within her hospital. Again, PM chick if further details or a contact link are helpful.
Peace all.
That is tremendous effort on her part . You guys must be very proud of her.
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Miss you, glow.
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That is tremendous effort on her part . You guys must be very proud of her.
We are. ❤️
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a good reason for MU to continue investing in and growing the PA program:
PA (physician assistant) rose to the No. 1 spot on both the 100 Best Jobs list and the Best Healthcare Jobs list in U.S. News & World Report’s 2021 Best Jobs rankings released Jan. 12.
According to U.S. News, the rankings factor in important aspects of a job, such as growth potential, work-life balance, and salary, in order to help job seekers at every level achieve their career goals.
https://www.aapa.org/news-central/2021/01/pa-named-best-overall-job-in-2021-by-u-s-news-world-report/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=aapa_post&utm_campaign=news_central&fbclid=IwAR3L2uN6w_QjgXijHrTfeJkkk9GyKdWSNTdbqP6Jb-FqCeY2r6eVEnZVO4g
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a good reason for MU to continue investing in and growing the PA program:
PA (physician assistant) rose to the No. 1 spot on both the 100 Best Jobs list and the Best Healthcare Jobs list in U.S. News & World Report’s 2021 Best Jobs rankings released Jan. 12.
According to U.S. News, the rankings factor in important aspects of a job, such as growth potential, work-life balance, and salary, in order to help job seekers at every level achieve their career goals.
https://www.aapa.org/news-central/2021/01/pa-named-best-overall-job-in-2021-by-u-s-news-world-report/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=aapa_post&utm_campaign=news_central&fbclid=IwAR3L2uN6w_QjgXijHrTfeJkkk9GyKdWSNTdbqP6Jb-FqCeY2r6eVEnZVO4g
Exactly. In both the Nursing and PA programs, Marquette is forced to turn away highly qualified applicants because they simply don't have room for them.
One of the big issues in the shortage of high-level healthcare workers is that there aren't enough available spots in school for everyone who is both qualified and interested in pursuing these careers.
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39 more positions eliminated today.
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39 more positions eliminated today.
For reference, that is about 1.3% of total employees.
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Exactly. In both the Nursing and PA programs, Marquette is forced to turn away highly qualified applicants because they simply don't have room for them.
One of the big issues in the shortage of high-level healthcare workers is that there aren't enough available spots in school for everyone who is both qualified and interested in pursuing these careers.
Yep. Every high-quality school that has a good nursing and/or PA program should expand if they can. These are some of the careers of the future, and a noble career path.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Frontline workers like your daughter are the heroes of 2020 (and now 2021).
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Yep. Every high-quality school that has a good nursing and/or PA program should expand if they can. These are some of the careers of the future, and a noble career path.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Frontline workers like your daughter are the heroes of 2020 (and now 2021).
Thanks. We are super proud of her. She is still shaking off the effects of Covid. She is having some chest pain so her doctor prescribed her some prednisone.
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I always thought MU could pull off a great fundraiser doing something similar with various buildings that alumni have bad memories of. I'd donate to push the button on Lalumiere.
No way! That’s where I met my wife. In Spanish class between glances of the Wall Street Journal.
A few years back, we took our children to my wife’s reunion with us and as we walked around campus, we took them to the place where we met at Lalumiere many, many years ago. It is a sacred place!
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Interesting ..
https://marquetteaaup.wordpress.com/2021/02/17/a-new-beginning-in-shared-governance-at-marquette-university/
-240 sections? That's a huge number.
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Those that thought that the 39 layoffs was the last of staffing cuts at Marquette were mistaken. Just getting started.
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Interesting ..
https://marquetteaaup.wordpress.com/2021/02/17/a-new-beginning-in-shared-governance-at-marquette-university/
-240 sections? That's a huge number.
It's probably somewhere between 5-10% if I have my numbers right.
But this line from Marquette AAUP article makes no sense to me: "We strongly urge each and every faculty member, whether or not an AAUP member, to reach out to senior University leadership right now to object to such NTT staff reductions until there has been a full explanation as to why such actions need to be taken now, when the dollars necessary to avoid this action will be available."
I don't think the AAUP understands that this isn't just a one year blip. Marquette has had a couple bad freshman year classes in a row, and those classes stick with you for four years. You can't use one time Covid Relief funds to keep NTT staff employed when you simply don't have the classes for them to teach.
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It's probably somewhere between 5-10% if I have my numbers right.
I'm confused .. if 240 was 10% of all sections .. that means MU has 2400 classes going on per semester. That seems high?
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Is this 240 classes or 240 class slots?
For instance, THEO 1000 could have 5 different slots with different professors/times. Would that count as 1 or 5?
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Is this 240 classes or 240 class slots?
For instance, THEO 1000 could have 5 different slots with different professors/times. Would that count as 1 or 5?
Sections. So for instance, if they have a required 1st year writing course that all incoming students need to take. If they want all the 1647 students in classes of 15 or less, then they need 110 sections just for this class. These types of courses are usually taught by non-tenure track faculty.
So if they instead set a class size target at under 24 per class, they only need 69 sections and can cut 41 sections for this class alone.
These required 1st year curriculum courses, that have very high numbers of sections being surfaced by non-tenure track faculty are likely what is being targeted.
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https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2021/03/01/higher-education-will-mu-become-marquette-tech/
Hmm.
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Emphasizing STEM, nursing and business makes sense. Doing so while continuing to offer a liberal arts background in the Catholic and Jesuit tradition can be a huge market differentiator. People with those skills is exactly what the marketplace wants.
And no Marquette won’t be junking their liberal arts majors. But my guess is that they won’t have the same numbers as before. And that’s fine.
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"The Marquette community is beginning to believe the justifications for budget cuts just don’t add up. Marquette will run a budget surplus next year, perhaps greater than the proposed cuts."
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"The Marquette community is beginning to believe the justifications for budget cuts just don’t add up. Marquette will run a budget surplus next year, perhaps greater than the proposed cuts."
While that literally might be true, there are a lot of aspects to college finance that are being overlooked here. Just because you are running a surplus, that doesn't mean that you can use the surplus to fund operating costs or that running a short term surplus doesn't mean making cuts for the sake of the long term.
For example, Marquette is currently running a fundraising campaign for a business building. Many of those pledges, even if they aren't paid immediately, are counted as revenue in the year they are pledged. But that revenue isn't always realized, and even if it is, must be used for the building.
Also, there are a number of colleges that rather unexpectedly are going to run surpluses this year. Why? First, CARES Act allocations have covered a bunch of Covid related costs. Second, because expenses are way down. But if you are going to ramp back up to a "normal" operation, those expenses could grow right back without the revenue to cover them.
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I'd also like to see some numbers to back that statement up rather than just a throw away line.
EDIT: I'm talking about the article. Not you FBM.
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That's not even the worst one....
"There are rumors,” said one professor who wished not to be identified, “that the Jesuit community was told by the provost [Kimo Ah Yun] and the president [] a couple of years ago that they want to turn Marquette into the first Jesuit technical university, to retreat from their liberal arts focus, to focus on things like healthcare and the STEM fields… They had a lot of resistance on the part of the Jesuit community to their plans to cut liberal arts programs.”
Again, these are only rumors..."
I have worked in higher education for thirty years, and there are two indisputable facts.
First, there are always "rumors" amongst the faculty.
Second, those "rumors" are either flat out wrong, or are missing significant facts.
Third, they are always reported by someone else. Either someone heard something or it gets reported anonymously.
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"The Marquette community is beginning to believe the justifications for budget cuts just don’t add up. Marquette will run a budget surplus next year, perhaps greater than the proposed cuts."
That's one of the big fallacies in the NFP world: Just because there is money available doesn't mean it should be spent on whatever your pet project is. The cuts were made because it was decided that the university didn't need those positions. Having cash doesn't absolve you from making sure you don't waste it.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteUnion/status/1369304045844840452
Last night, the firings of our Non-Tenure Track members and colleagues began. We stand firmly against this and demand that @marquetteu and @PresLovell halt the firings immediately.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteUnion/status/1369304045844840452
Last night, the firings of our Non-Tenure Track members and colleagues began. We stand firmly against this and demand that @marquetteu and @PresLovell halt the firings immediately.
Is it firings or non-renewal of contracts?
Classes are in session now, so it wouldn’t be immediate right?
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It's for next year.
Reading the Twitter thread, they are moving people from VAP (Visiting Assistant Professor) to a "per class" part time. A VAP would be a non-tenure track (NTT) faculty member with a full time teaching load. They are moving off those contracts and into a set compensation "per class" that may not add up to a full-time job with benefits.
The tweets use words like "shameless," and of course it sucks, but this is what Marquette has to do when it is facing less students. They are using the flexibility created with a flexible work force. Hardly unique to Marquette.
BTW, my understanding is next year's first year class isn't looking all that good either.
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BTW, my understanding is next year's first year class isn't looking all that good either.
Fluff, does that mean the deposits are not really rolling in yet?
My younger daughter is down to Vermont, Xavier & Marquette. She probably would have the deposit into Vermont already, but we advised her to wait and she has been seriously reconsidering. Two weeks ago Vermont & Marquette would have been the same net cost, but Vermont actually just surprisingly added another award that makes it much more attractive cost-wise. Marquette sent her to a link to be reconsidered, but noted only 2% get any increase. Marquette's high Nursing School ranking is keeping them in the running plus that her cousin (my niece) is there. Xavier is equal to Vermont ranking wise and would be way way less expensive plus her sister is there.
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Fluff, does that mean the deposits are not really rolling in yet?
My younger daughter is down to Vermont, Xavier & Marquette. She probably would have the deposit into Vermont already, but we advised her to wait and she has been seriously reconsidering. Two weeks ago Vermont & Marquette would have been the same net cost, but Vermont actually just surprisingly added another award that makes it much more attractive cost-wise. Marquette sent her to a link to be reconsidered, but noted only 2% get any increase. Marquette's high Nursing School ranking is keeping them in the running plus that her cousin (my niece) is there. Xavier is equal to Vermont ranking wise and would be way way less expensive plus her sister is there.
Unfortunately, Marquette's nursing program is so competitive that MU doesn't have much of an incentive to increase financial aid. They can probably just admit someone off of their waiting list.
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Unfortunately, Marquette's nursing program is so competitive that MU doesn't have much of an incentive to increase financial aid. They can probably just admit someone off of their waiting list.
I don't doubt this. I'm sure there are other great student's waiting for an opening.
What's weird is that daughter #2's offer was about 15% higher than daughter #1's two years ago. If daughter #1 got the same offer she would probably be at Marquette right now.
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My understanding is that applications and admits are up...but deposits are down.
(Applications and admits are up at a lot of places by the way. Kids are bored and apparently biding their time applying to more schools.)
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My understanding is that applications and admits are up...but deposits are down.
(Applications and admits are up at a lot of places by the way. Kids are bored and apparently biding their time applying to more schools.)
the Common App helps that too.
With a lot of schools, I think we'll see higher acceptance rates.
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My understanding is that applications and admits are up...but deposits are down.
(Applications and admits are up at a lot of places by the way. Kids are bored and apparently biding their time applying to more schools.)
I think COVID uncertainty is delaying decisions as well. Will classes be live? Can students socialize? Why pay MU money if on Zoom?
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I think COVID uncertainty is delaying decisions as well. Will classes be live? Can students socialize? Why pay MU money if on Zoom?
From our experience, it's been a really interesting college application season. Our youngest is a HS senior and we're seeing a lot more kids in her class get deferred than we saw when our older kids were applying. I don't know if it's because applications are up or if it's because they're having a hard time modeling what their yield is going to look like, but it is striking. We know of at least 25 kids who got deferred at tOSU - most of whom have resumes that would have gotten them admitted in past years. I'm curious if that's a widespread situation or if it's just limited to our circle of acquaintances.
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I think COVID uncertainty is delaying decisions as well. Will classes be live? Can students socialize? Why pay MU money if on Zoom?
FTR Marquette plans to go back to normal in-person classes in the fall:
https://today.marquette.edu/2021/03/a-message-from-president-lovell-marquette-plans-for-in-person-experience-for-our-students-this-fall/?fbclid=IwAR1BOzRnaOYx7--O6_gsIZD0GtTMAkz1UzfeOCZT1GUoFbtYrBGuq3K86Ik
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From our experience, it's been a really interesting college application season. Our youngest is a HS senior and we're seeing a lot more kids in her class get deferred than we saw when our older kids were applying. I don't know if it's because applications are up or if it's because they're having a hard time modeling what their yield is going to look like, but it is striking. We know of at least 25 kids who got deferred at tOSU - most of whom have resumes that would have gotten them admitted in past years. I'm curious if that's a widespread situation or if it's just limited to our circle of acquaintances.
Maybe more students are applying to public universities due to COVID?
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The last 6 weeks my daughter has gotten a ton of postcards basically with the same message "We're still accepting application. There is still time to apply."
Two years ago, I don't recall my older daughter receiving any like this.
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Maybe more students are applying to public universities due to COVID?
Perhaps. I suppose that data will released at some point. I'll have to remember to follow up.
It's been an interesting process compared to our other kids. I'll be happy when it's over. I think we're down to just two contenders, so hopefully she'll decide by the end of the month.
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My understanding is that applications and admits are up...but deposits are down.
(Applications and admits are up at a lot of places by the way. Kids are bored and apparently biding their time applying to more schools.)
I was in touch with MU's admissions rep that handles the Northeast a few days ago and was told they've seen a healthy increase in overall applications compared to last year, and interestingly, from a significantly wider geographic footprint across the country than they've seen in over a decade. Applications from my home state of CT are up 40% year over year. No idea what to attribute that to but I think it's fair to say it's not due to the success of our men's basketball program. Definitely welcome news though.
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I was in touch with MU's admissions rep that handles the Northeast a few days ago and was told they've seen a healthy increase in overall applications compared to last year, and interestingly, from a significantly wider geographic footprint across the country than they've seen in over a decade. Applications from my home state of CT are up 40% year over year. No idea what to attribute that to but I think it's fair to say it's not due to the success of our men's basketball program. Definitely welcome news though.
Acceptance rate no Matta, aina?
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Unfortunately, Marquette's nursing program is so competitive that MU doesn't have much of an incentive to increase financial aid. They can probably just admit someone off of their waiting list.
You can make good money with just BSN right out of school. My daughter just has an RN and makes 45/hour part time. Once in awhile she'll be called by her employer to cover their clinic in Northern Jersey and get paid double time.
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You can make good money with just BSN right out of school. My daughter just has an RN and makes 45/hour part time. Once in awhile she'll be called by her employer to cover their clinic in Northern Jersey and get paid double time.
Does she get benefits? If not, that's not all that great (especially given the cost of living on the East Coast.
My daughter, even before she got her Masters. was probably making as much (or more) as the Bus Adders who graduated the same year.
That's what happens when smart women have options other than Nurse and Teacher for a career path. Supply and demand. It took 100 years, but I am glad that parity has finally happened. Given the nursing shortage, it's too bad more men don't consider that option.
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You can make good money with just BSN right out of school. My daughter just has an RN and makes 45/hour part time. Once in awhile she'll be called by her employer to cover their clinic in Northern Jersey and get paid double time.
My daughter, even before she got her Masters. was probably making as much (or more) as the Bus Adders who graduated the same year.
These posts make me happy. My daughter who is picking a college right now* is planning on getting a BSN with an eye toward eventually being a NP.
*Actually, she told me today she thinks she’s decided. We’re going to tour this weekend just to make sure.
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Does she get benefits? If not, that's not all that great (especially given the cost of living on the East Coast.
My daughter, even before she got her Masters. was probably making as much (or more) as the Bus Adders who graduated the same year.
That's what happens when smart women have options other than Nurse and Teacher for a career path. Supply and demand. It took 100 years, but I am glad that parity has finally happened. Given the nursing shortage, it's too bad more men don't consider that option.
Yes, and 401K. It's not always about the money, but the flexibility in scheduling her time and being there for her daughter. She would have no problem getting 12hr shifts at the hospitals in our area and has been offered several managerial positions, but chose not to. My daughters graduating class was 25% men.
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In other Marquette Nursing news, it was announced by the BOT that the College of Nursing will be moving into Straz Hall after the Bus Ad moves into its new building.
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That's significantly larger than Clark Hall right?
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That's significantly larger than Clark Hall right?
Yes, indeed. The nursing school enrollment has increased by over 50% in the last decade or so.
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Yes, indeed. The nursing school enrollment has increased by over 50% in the last decade or so.
I only had one class in Clark, so don’t know what goes into a nursing school building. Will they have to do a lot of work to put in labs and other things?
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I only had one class in Clark, so don’t know what goes into a nursing school building. Will they have to do a lot of work to put in labs and other things?
I don't think they have worked out many of the details yet.
They built a pretty kickass simulation lab about 8 years ago.
https://www.marquette.edu/nursing/students-simulation.php
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I still have dreams that I have a class in either Clark Hall or the old health science building, and I can't find them. So I just wander around the science end of campus and wake up in a cold sweat.
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I still have dreams that I have a class in either Clark Hall or the old health science building, and I can't find them. So I just wander around the science end of campus and wake up in a cold sweat.
Similarly, I wander campus and can't find the final for the class I haven't been to for all semester.
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Yes, indeed. The nursing school enrollment has increased by over 50% in the last decade or so.
How many are there now, Chick?
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Probably should have it's own thread, but yeah, I have a recurring MU dream too.
For me, even though I was out in 4 years .. the dream is that I'm there, 7-8-9 years skating by, taking a class because I don't have a job and have nothing better to do so I'm just racking up credits.
I don't know what that means.
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I used to have the one about having a final in a class I never attended. That one ended when I beat my department's version of the Koboyashi Maru. When I dream about college now, I find myself, at my current age, getting stuck in a freshman dorm. Probably a symbol for me getting old.
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Probably should have it's own thread, but yeah, I have a recurring MU dream too.
For me, even though I was out in 4 years .. the dream is that I'm there, 7-8-9 years skating by, taking a class because I don't have a job and have nothing better to do so I'm just racking up credits.
I don't know what that means.
9 years to judge
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I used to have the one about having a final in a class I never attended. That one ended when I beat my department's version of the Koboyashi Maru. When I dream about college now, I find myself, at my current age, getting stuck in a freshman dorm. Probably a symbol for me getting old.
I have a version of that. I'm in my second semester senior year and I forgot about a class that was needed for graduation. I get halfway through the semester and suddenly remember -- oops. What an awful dream especially since I had to find a way to pay for another semester.
Today I just dream we have a championship caliber basketball team. Sometimes I think that's a fairy tale.
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I still have a dream that my high school reached out to MU that I never actually graduated HS and MU and NUIG then void my bachelors and masters and I need to repeat HS, then meet whatever new requirements there are to graduate from MU which I then fail.
It's dreams like this that cause me to drink.
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How many are there now, Chick?
Off the top of my head I am going to guess about 150-175 per class.
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I still have a dream that my high school reached out to MU that I never actually graduated HS and MU and NUIG then void my bachelors and masters and I need to repeat HS, then meet whatever new requirements there are to graduate from MU which I then fail.
It's dreams like this that cause me to drink.
My dream is that at the beginning of the semester I lose my copy of my class schedule and I'm like "that's okay, I have it memorized." Then late in the semester I discover that I have forgotten about one course - and it's always a Math class.
Also, the night before very important tests (including the CPA exam), I would often have a dream in which I overslept and missed it. That one was especially realistic and scary because at the beginning of the dream, I am waking up.
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I used to have the one about having a final in a class I never attended. That one ended when I beat my department's version of the Koboyashi Maru. When I dream about college now, I find myself, at my current age, getting stuck in a freshman dorm. Probably a symbol for me getting old.
had a similar one a few months ago - living in McCormick, being put in engineering math classes (my freshman roommate was an Engineer), bombing Dr. Naylor's exams. I'm only 26 years removed from that. Go figure...
I have a version of that. I'm in my second semester senior year and I forgot about a class that was needed for graduation. I get halfway through the semester and suddenly remember -- oops. What an awful dream especially since I had to find a way to pay for another semester.
One of my best friends in law school didn't properly register for a class our last semester, but he went every day and got a B on the exam. The school wouldn't let him get credit and he had to take it over the summer.
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had a similar one a few months ago - living in McCormick, being put in engineering math classes (my freshman roommate was an Engineer), bombing Dr. Naylor's exams. I'm only 26 years removed from that. Go figure...
One of my best friends in law school didn't properly register for a class our last semester, but he went every day and got a B on the exam. The school wouldn't let him get credit and he had to take it over the summer.
So youre saying my worst nightmare could be a reality :-\
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So youre saying my worst nightmare could be a reality :-\
I think you're a little more aware than he is! When our group heard about the situation none of us were really surprised that was something he'd do.
However, I did have a UCG scare. I turned in my term paper along with my roommates to my Euro Politics prof. I get my transcript when I'm back in the US and had a 0 for my grade. I called her and it turned out she thought the papers I turned in were all my roommates so she clipped them together and didn't see mine. Thankfully that got solved!
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My dream is that at the beginning of the semester I lose my copy of my class schedule and I'm like "that's okay, I have it memorized." Then late in the semester I discover that I have forgotten about one course - and it's always a Math class.
Also, the night before very important tests (including the CPA exam), I would often have a dream in which I overslept and missed it. That one was especially realistic and scary because at the beginning of the dream, I am waking up.
I can relate. I used to have a dream that the day before a final or maybe the day of a final I realized I had a course that I had forgotten about and never attended. I must’ve had this dream a dozen times or more. But not the last few decades, which is nice. I guess I’m just getting old :-)
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Marquette announced a $750 million fundraising campaign yesterday. And you don't announce those things unless you are reasonably sure you can reach the goal.
Looks like fundraising is going well.
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Marquette announced a $750 million fundraising campaign yesterday. And you don't announce those things unless you are reasonably sure you can reach the goal.
Looks like fundraising is going well.
They actually announced it a number of years ago and are 60% of the way there already. This is just the public phase. Meaning it's the whiny Scoopers time to step up.
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Marquette announced a $750 million fundraising campaign yesterday. And you don't announce those things unless you are reasonably sure you can reach the goal.
Looks like fundraising is going well.
That’s great. I had heard some critical of Lovell’s fund raising, but it seems like things have turned around.
I didn’t see the large B&G fund donation highlighted by MU in their post about recent donations.
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I can relate. I used to have a dream that the day before a final or maybe the day of a final I realized I had a course that I had forgotten about and never attended. I must’ve had this dream a dozen times or more. But not the last few decades, which is nice. I guess I’m just getting old :-)
My dream is that at the beginning of the semester I lose my copy of my class schedule and I'm like "that's okay, I have it memorized." Then late in the semester I discover that I have forgotten about one course - and it's always a Math class.
Also, the night before very important tests (including the CPA exam), I would often have a dream in which I overslept and missed it. That one was especially realistic and scary because at the beginning of the dream, I am waking up.
I still have a dream that my high school reached out to MU that I never actually graduated HS and MU and NUIG then void my bachelors and masters and I need to repeat HS, then meet whatever new requirements there are to graduate from MU which I then fail.
It's dreams like this that cause me to drink.
These are not dreams, dreams are pleasant; these are nightmares.
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Another article ..
https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2021/06/24/marquette-university-cuts-and-the-decline-of-liberal-arts/