Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package

[jesmu84]

That'll help pay for the redtube and pornhub.  Not sure I believe that pic at all.  Especially withe the IRS saying they'll start around Apr 13...

Agreed. Unless that's his personal account...then it's tough to dispute.

[🏀]

That'll help pay for the redtube and pornhub.  Not sure I believe that pic at all.  Especially withe the IRS saying they'll start around Apr 13...

It’s a joke... apologies.

[rocky_warrior]

It’s a joke... apologies.

Hah.  I kinda assumed based on the Apr 1 dates, but you posted it on the 2nd!

[JWags85]

So loan/grant applications and such begin tomorrow. Chase said they are already not prepared, another big bank that hasn’t been made told CNBC they aren’t ready cause they haven’t gotten guidelines necessary from the government. There is a building queue and we’re already being cautioned that funds will be tapped quickly.

In applying for both EIDL loans and prepping for PPP, there has been some eye rolling peculiarities (Such as applying for EIDL, and being informed days later that you need to re-apply on a different part of the website, with the same form, to get the $10K immediate grant, but it wouldn’t impact the existing app  )

You expect some of this red tape and process, but when you have people literally taking home $0 over one, stretching into 2-3 paychecks waiting for the grants, it doesn’t bring much confidence

[rocky_warrior]

Yeah, I know some big bank small business finance guys.  Basically the bank doesn't want to do the loans because when they turn into grants, it means there's no money in it for them.  Capitalism!

But to the other questions of whether small businesses should do the loans or layoff...I can't blame them for being wearly about how long they need to retain the employee after the "loan" ends. (I've done no research, so don't know how it works) But if a business isn't confident about things returning to normal within the period of the loan, I can't blame them.  Most of Colorado ski businesses (supporting ski towns, not vail resorts themselves) would fall into the boat of "I have no confidence in the timing of these loans".

[MarquetteDano]

Because you care about your employees?

Also, so that when things return to normal you cAn hit the ground running instead of going through a process of hiring to then be at max capacity

And laying off employees hits your unemployment rating and you will pay more unemployment  taxes when you hire them back.

[jesmu84]

Yeah, I know some big bank small business finance guys.  Basically the bank doesn't want to do the loans because when they turn into grants, it means there's no money in it for them.  Capitalism!

But to the other questions of whether small businesses should do the loans or layoff...I can't blame them for being wearly about how long they need to retain the employee after the "loan" ends. (I've done no research, so don't know how it works) But if a business isn't confident about things returning to normal within the period of the loan, I can't blame them.  Most of Colorado ski businesses (supporting ski towns, not vail resorts themselves) would fall into the boat of "I have no confidence in the timing of these loans".

I *think* it's 6 months. So, take the loan, fire no one for 6 months and the loan becomes a grant.

[Hards Alumni]

So loan/grant applications and such begin tomorrow. Chase said they are already not prepared, another big bank that hasn’t been made told CNBC they aren’t ready cause they haven’t gotten guidelines necessary from the government. There is a building queue and we’re already being cautioned that funds will be tapped quickly.

In applying for both EIDL loans and prepping for PPP, there has been some eye rolling peculiarities (Such as applying for EIDL, and being informed days later that you need to re-apply on a different part of the website, with the same form, to get the $10K immediate grant, but it wouldn’t impact the existing app  )

You expect some of this red tape and process, but when you have people literally taking home $0 over one, stretching into 2-3 paychecks waiting for the grants, it doesn’t bring much confidence

We are experiencing the same thing.  This is going to be a huge problem.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I’m really talking about restaurant and retail. But everyone’s points are good. Forgot about the loan becoming a grant for instance.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I’m really talking about restaurant and retail. But everyone’s points are good. Forgot about the loan becoming a grant for instance.

I was told last night that my previous company of 4 years ago laid off 186 people yesterday.  That's probably half the company.
They are in aerospace & defense component manufacturing and the parent owner has an obsessively strict "$s per head count" formula they adhere too.  Apparently business had been down (but not that much down) and they are using Coronavirus as the excuse.

[Archies Bat]

I am still on the Board of Directors of my former company, and spent yesterday and this morning preparing and reviewing information for applying for the loan today (hopefully).

I'll post on how it goes.

[Lighthouse 84]

I was told last night that my previous company of 4 years ago laid off 186 people yesterday.  That's probably half the company.
They are in aerospace & defense component manufacturing and the parent owner has an obsessively strict "$s per head count" formula they adhere too.  Apparently business had been down (but not that much down) and they are using Coronavirus as the excuse.

This just happened to my wife.  She works for a major title company as an attorney examiner.  They let a lot of people go, many of whom had been with the company for a lot of years.  It's a convenient excuse to shed expensive salaries without getting called out for age/sex/other discrimination.

[Hards Alumni]

This just happened to my wife.  She works for a major title company as an attorney examiner.  They let a lot of people go, many of whom had been with the company for a lot of years.  It's a convenient excuse to shed expensive salaries without getting called out for age/sex/other discrimination.

If this is what is happening, true unemployment is going to soar for people over 55... This could have an enormous effect on our economy for years or decades.

[MUBurrow]

I *think* it's 6 months. So, take the loan, fire no one for 6 months and the loan becomes a grant.

Generally that's right, but one nit that is tough for businesses is that you actually have to use all of the loan proceeds by June 30, and it cannot be used to cover more than 8 weeks of payroll total. I absolutely get the rationale behind wanting companies to push out that loan to their employees in order for it to be converted into a grant. But no one thinks this is going to be over by June 30, either, so you're essentially making business owners decide between restructuring in a way that feels wise to face this over the long haul or making them dependent on a second government cash infusion to keep covering the payroll for all those employees they can't afford after June 30.

[cheebs09]

I’ve got friends saying that they’ve heard the $1200 check is more a loan that we will have to pay back on our taxes next year. Any truth to that?

[JWags85]

Generally that's right, but one nit that is tough for businesses is that you actually have to use all of the loan proceeds by June 30, and it cannot be used to cover more than 8 weeks of payroll total. I absolutely get the rationale behind wanting companies to push out that loan to their employees in order for it to be converted into a grant. But no one thinks this is going to be over by June 30, either, so you're essentially making business owners decide between restructuring in a way that feels wise to face this over the long haul or making them dependent on a second government cash infusion to keep covering the payroll for all those employees they can't afford after June 30.

Thats a worry for us.  Even if the shelter at home orders or similar are relieved by June, I find it hard to believe a ton of businesses will flip back on and start generating the revenue needed.  8 weeks coverage is great for a month out of business and then another month getting back up to speed.  Not "well, we bridged you, the country is back to open, good lucK!"

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I’ve got friends saying that they’ve heard the $1200 check is more a loan that we will have to pay back on our taxes next year. Any truth to that?

No they are misinterpreting a provision. 

The $1,200 is a credit that tax filers can qualify for in 2020 - depending on your income.  The checks being sent are an advance on that particular credit.  The reason for this is because if you don't qualify based on your 2019 income, you CAN qualify based on your 2020 income if you lose your job.  You just have to claim the credit next year.

And if you qualify NOW, but don't qualify in 2020, you dont have to pay it back.

Does that make sense?

[jesmu84]

No they are misinterpreting a provision. 

The $1,200 is a credit that tax filers can qualify for in 2020 - depending on your income.  The checks being sent are an advance on that particular credit.  The reason for this is because if you don't qualify based on your 2019 income, you CAN qualify based on your 2020 income if you lose your job.  You just have to claim the credit next year.

And if you qualify NOW, but don't qualify in 2020, you dont have to pay it back.

Does that make sense?

I think I missed this somewhere, but do you know how they're determining eligibility? Are they using 2018 or 2019 tax returns?

I ask because individually, I would have been over the threshold for a check using 2018 returns. In that year (2018) I was engaged, but we filed separately. In 2019, we filed jointly and we would qualify as a couple to receive a check.

[GB Warrior]

I think I missed this somewhere, but do you know how they're determining eligibility? Are they using 2018 or 2019 tax returns?

I ask because individually, I would have been over the threshold for a check using 2018 returns. In that year (2018) I was engaged, but we filed separately. In 2019, we filed jointly and we would qualify as a couple to receive a check.

My understanding is they're using your most recent filing, since 2019 filing is not due yet.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Right.  But you can claim this NEXT year if your 2020 income falls below the threshold.

[Lighthouse 84]

I think I missed this somewhere, but do you know how they're determining eligibility? Are they using 2018 or 2019 tax returns?

I ask because individually, I would have been over the threshold for a check using 2018 returns. In that year (2018) I was engaged, but we filed separately. In 2019, we filed jointly and we would qualify as a couple to receive a check.

I read they are using whatever return is on file.  If you haven't filed 2019 yet and it's more beneficial to you to have that as the most recent, hold off on filing.  If it will help you to get the 2019 return on file, do it immediately.  That could be old advice though, as it's possible that they made the determination already.

[Jockey]

Thats a worry for us.  Even if the shelter at home orders or similar are relieved by June, I find it hard to believe a ton of businesses will flip back on and start generating the revenue needed.  8 weeks coverage is great for a month out of business and then another month getting back up to speed.  Not "well, we bridged you, the country is back to open, good lucK!"

Very important. Chamber of Commerce said in a survey that 25% of small businesses say they are on the brink of bankruptcy.

Unemployment - though said to be up to 4.4% is actually in the 14-16% range after the last couple of weeks. It will go higher than that in the next month as things filter down. Gonna take a long time to ramp back up.

[jesmu84]

My understanding is they're using your most recent filing, since 2019 filing is not due yet.

Thanks.

I just filed mine on Monday. So, I guess we'll see?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Unemployment - though said to be up to 4.4% is actually in the 14-16% range after the last couple of weeks. It will go higher than that in the next month as things filter down. Gonna take a long time to ramp back up.

Jockey,
I read only 4.4% because the monthly numbers only account like through the 17th of each month.

[Jockey]

Jockey,
I read only 4.4% because the monthly numbers only account like through the 17th of each month.

Correct. But most people don’t know that. Currently the number is way higher.