MU's tuition: when will the madness end?

[Sir Lawrence]

BOT approves a 4.7% increase for undergrads for next academic year.  Good grief.

http://marquettetribune.org/2010/01/26/news/tuition-tdz1-ml2-mn3-undergraduate-tuition-rates-will-top-30000-next-year/

[mu_hilltopper]

Makes you wonder if, like any multi-million dollar organization, they have a plan for the future.   

Every year that ticks by, the number of people who can afford this, or simply tolerate it, goes downward.

20-30 years from now, as tuition increases outstrip personal income increases every single year, few will tolerate paying $100k for a year at Marquette.  Financial aid and loans are stretched now in 2010, let alone a generation from now .. not a valid plan.

Unreal.

[Clam Crowder]

look at the tuition of schools in the northeast before u start whining because kids from the northeast are starting to come here in increased numbers. 7 people from the smallest state in the country came here last year. Its not that bad

[ChicosBailBonds]

What choice do they have.  If they want to keep good faculty, they have to give them raises at 3 to 4% each year. Other costs going up as well.  They don't have a choice really.  If you cap increases, then something else has to give.


With the amount of money going to financial aid, many private university students are getting a better deal than public school kids.

[mu_hilltopper]

look at the tuition of schools in the northeast before u start whining because kids from the northeast are starting to come here in increased numbers. 7 people from the smallest state in the country came here last year. Its not that bad

Oh, so there are even more expensive schools than MU, so we shouldn't be concerned?

Well, that changes everything!

[Sir Lawrence]

If they want to keep good faculty, they have to give them raises at 3 to 4% each year. Other costs going up as well.

With the amount of money going to financial aid, many private university students are getting a better deal than public school kids.

I'm on my last child.  Sophomore at Dayton.  Two of the other offspring went private college.  One went to UW.  Trust me, the public option was tremendously cheaper.  

My brother is a full bird professor at MU.  He's not gotten an 4% raise ever.

[Clam Crowder]

I'm saying that for a private institution the tuition here is still not that bad. If the school wants to become more prominent tuition increase is inevitable.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm on my last child.  Sophomore at Dayton.  Two of the other offspring went private college.  One went to UW.  Trust me, the public option was tremendously cheaper.  

My brother is a full bird professor at MU.  He's not gotten an 4% raise ever.

I just read an article the other day talking about how in some cases the private school might be the better deal.  I'll try to dig it up and post it, that's what I was referencing.  How long has your brother been there to have never received a 4% raise?

When I was in athletics, raises were decent.

[GGGG]

It's not the list...it's the discount.

I have said this before, but my son is a freshman at Butler.  With the scholarships and financial aid he is receiving (institutional financial aid...not federal), we are paying just a couple thousand more than IU's in-state tuition.  (He received neither scholarships or financial aid at IU.)

What the privates do is target the kids they *really* want and throw money at them.  If others want to pay more, so be it.  For those of us who went to college in the 80s and before, it is a completely different deal now than it was then.

[Hards Alumni]

It's not the list...it's the discount.

I have said this before, but my son is a freshman at Butler.  With the scholarships and financial aid he is receiving (institutional financial aid...not federal), we are paying just a couple thousand more than IU's in-state tuition.  (He received neither scholarships or financial aid at IU.)

What the privates do is target the kids they *really* want and throw money at them.  If others want to pay more, so be it.  For those of us who went to college in the 80s and before, it is a completely different deal now than it was then.

This is what happened to me.  I had a TON of financial aid, but good scores, GPA, and tons of EC activities.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I remember business faculty members bitching all the time that they didn't get an increase anywhere near the amount of a tuition increase. Business faculty. They could have easily been exaggerating, though ...

There's certainly fat to be cut. I'm sure you'd agree, Chicos. It's like any other bureaucracy. Also, stop forcing students to live in dorms that cost $12,000 to live and eat in for 8 months out of the year, for starters.

I am loathe to agree to this, but MU is about average, maybe a bit higher based on Wisconsin's cost of living, with other private schools. I don't see how most of them can continue the madness.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

It's not the list...it's the discount.

I have said this before, but my son is a freshman at Butler.  With the scholarships and financial aid he is receiving (institutional financial aid...not federal), we are paying just a couple thousand more than IU's in-state tuition.  (He received neither scholarships or financial aid at IU.)

The discounts are incredibly shrinking relative to tuition. When I was a frosh ('03-'04), one of the scholarships I received, the Ignatius or something, was $8,000. That had to be about a third of (just) tuition my freshman year. Now? It's about a fourth. I don't think donations and grants are nearly keeping up the pace with tuition increases.

[Keelsmeals]

Tuition increases like these are happening across the board. The UW system went up 5.5% last year (and that's one of their smallest percentage increases in the last decade), Loyola Chicago was 4.0% last year (and they also increased meal plans and student fees), Notre Dame was 4.4% last year (lowest percentage increase since 1960).

My university had a 5.5% tuition increase last year, but the actual increase in cost to educate students increased by 30-35%, much of that in energy and technology costs. Damn kids want their heat... 

There are hundreds of articles written about setting tuition prices, appropriate increases, etc. Some of administrators of the northeastern schools have gone on record saying that consumers believe there is a positive correlation between tuition and academic prestige: the higher the tuition, the more prestigious the institution. The reality is this: across the board, student enrollment is up and the number of students that pay full price is up. Until that trend changes, there's no incentive to change policies especially at private institutions. I don't like it and I think it's borderline unethical, but I get it.

And just a point of clarification: Faculty and staff at universities across the country - and not just the public universities- have had salary freezes, or have been asked to take pay cuts, or have required furloughs to deal with all the budget deficits at universities. Remember the whole Calhoun "not giving back a penny" incident last year? These measures are happening despite the tuition increases. Tuition only covers a fraction of an institution's operating costs. There are places where faculty are getting 4% raises every year, but that is often because their salaries are funded wholly or partially by research grants and the salary increases are written into the grant budget. Some places are managing with cost of living increases, but MOST higher education institutions are really struggling right now. MOST universities are public and operating with fewer state resources (think University of Wisconsin-Green Bay or Cal State Fullerton), and most of the privates don't have the resources of Harvard or Stanford.

[GGGG]

Tuition increases like these are happening across the board. The UW system went up 5.5% last year (and that's one of their smallest percentage increases in the last decade), Loyola Chicago was 4.0% last year (and they also increased meal plans and student fees), Notre Dame was 4.4% last year (lowest percentage increase since 1960).

My university had a 5.5% tuition increase last year, but the actual increase in cost to educate students increased by 30-35%, much of that in energy and technology costs. Damn kids want their heat... 

There are hundreds of articles written about setting tuition prices, appropriate increases, etc. Some of administrators of the northeastern schools have gone on record saying that consumers believe there is a positive correlation between tuition and academic prestige: the higher the tuition, the more prestigious the institution. The reality is this: across the board, student enrollment is up and the number of students that pay full price is up. Until that trend changes, there's no incentive to change policies especially at private institutions. I don't like it and I think it's borderline unethical, but I get it.

And just a point of clarification: Faculty and staff at universities across the country - and not just the public universities- have had salary freezes, or have been asked to take pay cuts, or have required furloughs to deal with all the budget deficits at universities. Remember the whole Calhoun "not giving back a penny" incident last year? These measures are happening despite the tuition increases. Tuition only covers a fraction of an institution's operating costs. There are places where faculty are getting 4% raises every year, but that is often because their salaries are funded wholly or partially by research grants and the salary increases are written into the grant budget. Some places are managing with cost of living increases, but MOST higher education institutions are really struggling right now. MOST universities are public and operating with fewer state resources (think University of Wisconsin-Green Bay or Cal State Fullerton), and most of the privates don't have the resources of Harvard or Stanford.

Most people don't understand that public universities are only minimally supported by the state.  In Wisconsin for instance, the UW schools are by and large have less than a quarter of their budgets provided by taxes.  UW-Madison's percentage is so low that they are actively contemplating asking the State to allow it to set tuition on its own (right now the legislature has the final say) in return for giving up all tax support.

A generation ago, it was over 50%.

[Sir Lawrence]

I just read an article the other day talking about how in some cases the private school might be the better deal.  I'll try to dig it up and post it, that's what I was referencing.  How long has your brother been there to have never received a 4% raise?

When I was in athletics, raises were decent.

A lot of the aid is income dependent, but they don't factor in how many kids you might have in college at the same time.

My brother has been a prof at Marquette for more than 25 years.  I don't know what his raises were 15 years ago, but there is no way he has gotten a 4% raise in the last 10.  On the other hand, he has summers off!

[77ncaachamps]

I say we create our own college: MUScoollege.

Charge cheaper tuition and have the board members teach everything they specialize in:
Hayward - public discourse and netiquette
Chicos - modern issues in sports networking
bma725 - recognizing talent
Sugar - Stats 101

THEN...we can start charter schools ALL OVER the nation. Have them feed into our MUScoolleges so we can *kaching* be in the money (and help fund this site...probably trick it out a little more ).

But then the MUSCoolleges would start to get expensive, so we'll spin that off...and focus on our charter schools (since a large % of state budgets go to fund K-12 education).

Oh, and I almost forgot.

Our mascots? WARRIORS

[muhoosier260]

MU undergraduate tuition will be slightly over $30K next year. To compare, MU law school tuition this year is $32.4K. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE BOOKS, HOUSING, TRANSPORTATION, OR ANY OTHER PERSONAL EXPENSES. Realistically you're looking at approx. $50K. This doesn't seem right, not only for an undergraduate, but that an undergraduate education is comparable to a law school education. I started MU in fall '05 and I want to say tuition was around $24K. My sister graduated from Valpo (private) in '99, tuition was something around $15K.

Fr. Wild now says "nearly 90% of MU students receive financial aid". I know a private school education is expensive, but, 90%?! This means its too damn expensive. Something needs to be done. Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions, but this is ridiculous. Private school education -- gov't assistance or not-- will not be affordable in less than a decade if this trend continues. It makes you wonder what impact this will have on private schools and higher education in general.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

Also, stop forcing students to live in dorms that cost $12,000 to live and eat in for 8 months out of the year, for starters.

+10000. It will never happen though, MU loves to use the rules (gender hours and such designed to keep kids from, um, doing "unethical activities" with each other) as part of their "Catholic Identity," and they make bank on it.

[GGGG]

Fr. Wild now says "nearly 90% of MU students receive financial aid". I know a private school education is expensive, but, 90%?! This means its too damn expensive. Something needs to be done. Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions, but this is ridiculous. Private school education -- gov't assistance or not-- will not be affordable in less than a decade if this trend continues. It makes you wonder what impact this will have on private schools and higher education in general.

The reason 90% of the kids get financial aid is because....once again...IT'S NOT THE LIST, IT'S THE DISCOUNT.  Marquette has record applications and close to record enrollment.  But only 10% of the students pay full price.  Without sounding too harsh, those are the rich, dumb kids...who subsidize the poor, smart ones.  It's a shell game to maximize revenue.

[MU1984]

Supply and demand.

[Marquette Mama]

  Without sounding too harsh, those are the rich, dumb kids...who subsidize the poor, smart ones.  It's a shell game to maximize revenue.

Wow Sultan, as a "10%" parent who paid sticker price for 4 years... I find your assessment truly offensive.  My kid is not stupid -- rather the product of a household that worked and saved since her birth for her education. It's comments like this that make kids and parents who CAN afford to pay full price grub around for scholarships they don't truly need -- diminishing funds available for those who do require help.

[4everwarriors]

Ma is 100% correct. Besides, as I very well know, the highly selective universities do not give merit money, period.

[GGGG]

Wow Sultan, as a "10%" parent who paid sticker price for 4 years... I find your assessment truly offensive.  My kid is not stupid -- rather the product of a household that worked and saved since her birth for her education. It's comments like this that make kids and parents who CAN afford to pay full price grub around for scholarships they don't truly need -- diminishing funds available for those who do require help.

They didn't offer her merit scholarships???  I wonder why, since those are given out long before you fill out the FAFSA....

Hmmmm....

[GGGG]

Ma is 100% correct. Besides, as I very well know, the highly selective universities do not give merit money, period.

But Marquette does.  We're not talking Harvard here.

[Benny B]

With financial aid, UW would have cost me $3500/yr back in my day, two small private colleges in Wisconsin would have cost me about $4000-5000/yr, and MU was $6000/yr or so with aid.  And that included room and board.
(Note -- my numbers may not be exact - it was a while ago - but my point is how relatively close the numbers were after considering the whole package.)

As long as society continues to propagate the idea that parents should be mostly responsible for the financial aspect of their children's college education, then tuition will continue to increase everywhere, not just the private institutions.  If you want true supply and demand, get rid of the PLUS loans  and quit basing a student's financial need upon their parents' 1040's (instead, base it upon how much parents contribute to their education -- there are some deadbeat and cheap parents out there that contribute nothing yet make enough to prevent their children from obtaining the necessary aid).  Increase Stafford lending and Pell grants to undergrads, bump up the higher education tax credits, raise the student loan interest deduction limits, and let students take ownership of their education without having to rely upon Mom and Dad.  You'd be surprised at how fast tuition drops to adjust to the new paradigm.

But that's coming from someone who paid his own way.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

If you want true supply and demand, get rid of the PLUS loans  and quit basing a student's financial need upon their parents' 1040's (instead, base it upon how much parents contribute to their education -- there are some deadbeat and cheap parents out there that contribute nothing yet make enough to prevent their children from obtaining the necessary aid).

+1 million. Difficult for a school to verify beforehand, but yes, the system utterly fails to recognize the variability in parents' contributions.

[damuts222]

 Tuition goes up due to the massive increase in students applying to college. NOT everyone should go to college. Students and parents need to sit down and look at the prospective of getting a job prior to majoring in a degree. I do understand that people will chase their dreams and I am all for it, but if it means it will be harder to obtain a job then you better work hard in school.

  Having worked as a project manager on public works projects you would be surprised that union workers (at least in Chicago) will make double sometimes triple what an engineer makes, at least when your salary. You don't have to go to college to be intelligent. Many of us have had kids in our classes who you knew weren't college material, just saying.

[reinko]

Generally speaking, Sultan is correct.  (even though he could have worded it a bit nicer   )  Wealthy families that can afford to pay sticker price, subsidize a lot of the aid many of the middle and lower income families get in grants.  And rest assured, MU and  most other schools have to have a minimum % of those types of students.  

The question then turns to if they do not have enough qualified kids from well-off backgrounds, concessions are made, and that is a fact.  As a practitioner in financial aid for over 5 years, most private colleges will be more lenient with admission standards for those families that can afford to pay full freight.  Admissions and financial aid offices talk to each other about these types of cases.  And if they come from a super-wealthy family ($1,000,000 + net worth), then development gets involved in these types decisions.

[GGGG]

Generally speaking, Sultan is correct.  (even though he could have worded it a bit nicer   )  Wealthy families that can afford to pay sticker price, subsidize a lot of the aid many of the middle and lower income families get in grants.  And rest assured, MU and  most other schools have to have a minimum % of those types of students.  

The question then turns to if they do not have enough qualified kids from well-off backgrounds, concessions are made, and that is a fact.  As a practitioner in financial aid for over 5 years, most private colleges will be more lenient with admission standards for those families that can afford to pay full freight.  Admissions and financial aid offices talk to each other about these types of cases.  And if they come from a super-wealthy family ($1,000,000 + net worth), then development gets involved in these types decisions.

Yeah, I know....I should have been nicer.

But you are correct.  If you are not getting a merit scholarship from Marquette, and they offer those before you fill out the FAFSA so they have no idea of your ability to pay, they are basically saying "you meet the standards to be accepted here, but you will have to pay full freight unless your financial aid indicates otherwise."

So I apologize for using the word "dumb," because dumb kids do not get into MU, but those kids not offered merit scholarships are on the lower end of those they accept.  That is simply the truth.

[Jam Chowder]

+1 million. Difficult for a school to verify beforehand, but yes, the system utterly fails to recognize the variability in parents' contributions.

I totally agree. I got NO help from financial aid because of my family's income, yet they did not contribute any money to my education. They weren't deadbeats, but the believed I should have to work at something and pay my own way. If I hadn't gotten the Raynor scholarship, I never would have been able to attend MU. Unfortunately, MU axed that scholarship (a HORRIBLE decision that I will probably always resent the administration for) in order to provide some "diversity-based" scholarships for inner-city kids... Not a bad thing in itself, but the university basically giving the finger to kids who are white and from middle-income backgrounds.

EDIT: To clarify, what I'm saying is that it seemed like the university was assuming that because of the background of Raynor recipients, they should be able to pay their way anyway... an inaccurate assumption in my case.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Rightly or wrongly, in the marketing world and in the business world, often the cost of something = perception.

If you price something high enough, the perceived value is higher.  Gucci vs something off the rack.  There is probably some of that going on here as well.  A brand positioning which price can drive to put the brand in an elite group.

[mu_hilltopper]

The bottom line from these anecdotes is .. the list price matters.

--

I'd like to see a chart that describes the college buyer marketplace, to see an estimate of the count of people in the US, who can afford 4-year private schools today, based on their income levels, and an estimate of that universe in 20-30 years, since Household income have basically flatlined in the past decade, while schooling costs rise 2x the CPI (or more, since the CPI is going sideways right now.)

My guess is that as that time horizon goes forward, the numbers drop to near zero.

[GGGG]

I totally agree. I got NO help from financial aid because of my family's income, yet they did not contribute any money to my education. They weren't deadbeats, but the believed I should have to work at something and pay my own way. If I hadn't gotten the Raynor scholarship, I never would have been able to attend MU. Unfortunately, MU axed that scholarship (a HORRIBLE decision that I will probably always resent the administration for) in order to provide some "diversity-based" scholarships for inner-city kids... Not a bad thing in itself, but the university basically giving the finger to kids who are white and from middle-income backgrounds.

EDIT: To clarify, what I'm saying is that it seemed like the university was assuming that because of the background of Raynor recipients, they should be able to pay their way anyway... an inaccurate assumption in my case.

You could have had yourself declared an independent, but I'm sure your parents still wanted to claim you as a dependent on their income tax forms.

[hdog1017]

Here's hoping that my future offspring are 7'0" tall and really good at basketball. 

[Marquette Mama]

So I apologize for using the word "dumb," because dumb kids do not get into MU, but those kids not offered merit scholarships are on the lower end of those they accept.  That is simply the truth.
[/quote]
Apology, while somewhat half-assed, accepted. Since you appear willing to adjust your phrasing, how about:
"Kids offered merit scholarships are on the higher end of those they accept."

I say this because I question how deep merit scholarships go at MU.  It was the only university where my low end, dumbsh*t student was not offered a scholarship.  My impression is that MU does not have very deep pockets when it comes to merit awards.  The size of their endowment compared to other universities would support my observation.

Time for all you smart MU alums to get out your checkbooks!
 

 

[LON]

So I apologize for using the word "dumb," because dumb kids do not get into MU, but those kids not offered merit scholarships are on the lower end of those they accept.  That is simply the truth.

Apology, while somewhat half-assed, accepted. Since you appear willing to adjust your phrasing, how about:
"Kids offered merit scholarships are on the higher end of those they accept."

I say this because I question how deep merit scholarships go at MU.  It was the only university where my low end, dumbsh*t student was not offered a scholarship.  My impression is that MU does not have very deep pockets when it comes to merit awards.  The size of their endowment compared to other universities would support my observation.

Time for all you smart MU alums to get out your checkbooks!
 

 

Awesome.

[reinko]

I totally agree. I got NO help from financial aid because of my family's income, yet they did not contribute any money to my education. They weren't deadbeats, but the believed I should have to work at something and pay my own way. If I hadn't gotten the Raynor scholarship, I never would have been able to attend MU. Unfortunately, MU axed that scholarship (a HORRIBLE decision that I will probably always resent the administration for) in order to provide some "diversity-based" scholarships for inner-city kids... Not a bad thing in itself, but the university basically giving the finger to kids who are white and from middle-income backgrounds.

EDIT: To clarify, what I'm saying is that it seemed like the university was assuming that because of the background of Raynor recipients, they should be able to pay their way anyway... an inaccurate assumption in my case.

Damn inner city poor kids always sticking it to those white middle class males.

[Jay Bee]

Cheapskates.

[GGGG]

Apology, while somewhat half-assed, accepted. Since you appear willing to adjust your phrasing, how about:
"Kids offered merit scholarships are on the higher end of those they accept."

I say this because I question how deep merit scholarships go at MU.  It was the only university where my low end, dumbsh*t student was not offered a scholarship.  My impression is that MU does not have very deep pockets when it comes to merit awards.  The size of their endowment compared to other universities would support my observation.

Time for all you smart MU alums to get out your checkbooks!

I must admit...you made me laugh!

Anyway, you may very well be right because, and I have mentioned this before, my my son's most expensive option by far was Marquette. 

But it is interesting that your daughter decided to go there anyway.

[Sheriff]

So I apologize for using the word "dumb," because dumb kids do not get into MU, but those kids not offered merit scholarships are on the lower end of those they accept.  That is simply the truth.

Apology, while somewhat half-assed, accepted. Since you appear willing to adjust your phrasing, how about:
"Kids offered merit scholarships are on the higher end of those they accept."

I say this because I question how deep merit scholarships go at MU.  It was the only university where my low end, dumbsh*t student was not offered a scholarship.  My impression is that MU does not have very deep pockets when it comes to merit awards.  The size of their endowment compared to other universities would support my observation.

Time for all you smart MU alums to get out your checkbooks!
 

 

Some facts:

26% of all full-time undergraduates enrolled in 2008 had non-need based (i.e merit) scholarships or grants.  81% of them were not determined to have financial need.

All the data are included in the MU Common Data Set 2008 - 2009 published by the Marquette University Office of Institutional Research & Assessment.

FWIW - my dumb@$$ son turned down scholarship offers to get a Jesuit education that he has parlayed into a very successful engineering career.  His "rich" father is counting on him to supplement his early retirement!

[GGGG]

Some facts:

26% of all full-time undergraduates enrolled in 2008 had non-need based (i.e merit) scholarships or grants.  81% of them were not determined to have financial need.

That's it!??!!!  Wow...I'm really sorry about my comments then.

[Jam Chowder]

Damn inner city poor kids always sticking it to those white middle class males.

Not quite what I was implying, but it's we're speaking in internets, so I understand that I may not have communicated my point very well.

I'm saying that there should be a place for both. I think it's unfortunate that MU doesn't make Merit based scholarships much of a priority. I think it's sad when scholarship programs are cut. Especially scholarships that made it possible for me to got to college. It would be nice to see need-based and merit-based scholarships coexist. It seems to me from my admittedly limited knowledge that MU sees them as mutually exclusive, probably for financial reasons. that is all.

[deep vacuum]

Here's hoping that my future offspring are 7'0" tall and really good at basketball. 

You or your spouse, could also become a future Marquette university employee.  As a Marquette faculty, administration or staff employee, a free education at Marquette for your kids could be in your future.  Many other universities have a similar arrangement for their employees.

[reinko]

Not quite what I was implying, but it's we're speaking in internets, so I understand that I may not have communicated my point very well.

I'm saying that there should be a place for both. I think it's unfortunate that MU doesn't make Merit based scholarships much of a priority. I think it's sad when scholarship programs are cut. Especially scholarships that made it possible for me to got to college. It would be nice to see need-based and merit-based scholarships coexist. It seems to me from my admittedly limited knowledge that MU sees them as mutually exclusive, probably for financial reasons. that is all.

Damn internets and it's series of tubes and widgets.  I totally agree with your above post.

[spartan3186]

Everybody needs to stop worrying. I learned tonight that all student loans are going to be forgiven 20 years after graduation, and if you go into public service all student loans will be forgiven after 10 year. Everybody just take out more loans!

[BME to MD]

Everybody needs to stop worrying. I learned tonight that all student loans are going to be forgiven 20 years after graduation, and if you go into public service all student loans will be forgiven after 10 year. Everybody just take out more loans!

Great plan except that the stipulation was no more than 10% of income for 20 years (10 if public service).  

$40,000/year would come out to total of $80,000 over 20 years.  

Maximum amount a dependent undergraduate student can take out in federal Stafford loans: $31,000 ($57,000 for an independent student).

[spartan3186]

I'm aware, my comments probably should have been in teal.

[GGGG]

Not quite what I was implying, but it's we're speaking in internets, so I understand that I may not have communicated my point very well.

I'm saying that there should be a place for both. I think it's unfortunate that MU doesn't make Merit based scholarships much of a priority. I think it's sad when scholarship programs are cut. Especially scholarships that made it possible for me to got to college. It would be nice to see need-based and merit-based scholarships coexist. It seems to me from my admittedly limited knowledge that MU sees them as mutually exclusive, probably for financial reasons. that is all.

Did they cut your scholarship when you were part way through school?

[Jam Chowder]

Did they cut your scholarship when you were part way through school?

They cut the scholarship my sophomore year. Those already awarded it were allowed to finish out their 4 years. So, if I remember correctly, the class of 2010 was the last class to have Raynor recipients.

[PBRme]

Most people don't understand that public universities are only minimally supported by the state.  In Wisconsin for instance, the UW schools are by and large have less than a quarter of their budgets provided by taxes.  UW-Madison's percentage is so low that they are actively contemplating asking the State to allow it to set tuition on its own (right now the legislature has the final say) in return for giving up all tax support.

A generation ago, it was over 50%.

All of this ignores the critical point that educational spending is increasing at a rate 1-2% higher than the rate of inflation.  While state direct funding is now "ONLY" about $1 Billion annually if increases had been more in line with inflation the states share would have remained stable.

The technology and energy explanation is spurious at best.  Even with energy costs doubling I doubt they are even 5-7% of total costs. 

A wise man once told me "cost only leave or enter an organization on two feet"

[GGGG]

All of this ignores the critical point that educational spending is increasing at a rate 1-2% higher than the rate of inflation.  While state direct funding is now "ONLY" about $1 Billion annually if increases had been more in line with inflation the states share would have remained stable.

The technology and energy explanation is spurious at best.  Even with energy costs doubling I doubt they are even 5-7% of total costs. 

You would have to really dig into the numbers to get the whole picture.  Some of the increases are due to dedicated funding sources...Professor Smith gets a research grant to fund his research.  However, salary compression is a big issue that a lot of small public schools face...Professor Anderson was hired in 1975 to teach accounting.  He got his nice 3-4% annual adjustments in salary, but now he's retiring and his replacement will cost $15,000 more.