Value the Basketball

[Silkk the Shaka]

when was the last time Marquette had a PG where we just KNEW they could break a press on their own? Rowsey was a nice ball handler (better dribbler and faster than Howard).  Was it Junior Cadougan?  DJO wasn't really our PG, but his speed with the ball was a sight to behold.

Dominic James' senior year and the Acker the year after

[NorthernDancerColt]

when was the last time Marquette had a PG where we just KNEW they could break a press on their own? Rowsey was a nice ball handler (better dribbler and faster than Howard).  Was it Junior Cadougan?  DJO wasn't really our PG, but his speed with the ball was a sight to behold.

Nope. Nope. Nope.
Toe-Knee-Mill-er.
It was his combination of speed, handles, and know-how.

In our NCAA dismantling of Kentucky in 1994, Coach O’Neill asked Lute Olson, his old boss, how to break Pitino’s vaunted full-court pressure. His answer was to just have Tony attack their big man (bigger guard/forward) with the dribble. Almost a Vander lay-up vs Davidson big approach, but on getting the ball over half court.


“If Tony goes in front of a bus today...I go in front of one tomorrow.”
~Kevin O’Neill

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

We agree.

We both also know that, as common-sense as that is, the refs often aren't going to call a foul a foul.

We can hate that, we can wish that weren't true, but we really can't dispute that.

If they called every foul, games would be four hours long and Cam would be playing point.

[SaveOD238]

And therein lies my problem with it. A foul is a foul.

Except it's not.  It's not a foul unless the refs call it a foul.  That's their job.

I umpire baseball, and the same applies there.  I see pitchers all the time throw a good curve that they think just catches the corner for strike 3, then start walking off.  When I say "ball" they get mad, but it's not a strike until I call it a strike.  That's how the game works.

[muwarrior69]

When I coached middle school basketball, the No. 1 thing I wanted was for my kids to be aggressive. We used to shout, "Aggressiveness!" coming out of every huddle. I told them many times that, with very few exceptions (such as our best players being in foul trouble): "I don't care if you foul. That's why we have backups we trust." I stressed that I didn't want us to play dirty, just aggressively.

I knew we'd get called for our share of fouls, and we did, but I also knew that the refs couldn't possibly call everything. And the refs often give the benefit of the doubt to the aggressors.

I'm an assistant HS coach now and at halftime of a game a couple weeks ago we had 2 fouls as a team. I went to the coach and said, "There is no way we are playing aggressively enough. We only have two effen fouls in an entire half." And he opened his halftime speech by telling the girls exactly that. In the second half, we got more fouls. We also set the tone of the game with our aggressiveness and ended up winning decisively.

My long way of saying that I thought McDermott was very smart to turn up the heat on Markus and anybody else who had the basketball. Until the refs start calling it, just keep doing it.

...but Theo and Ed get called whether they're aggressive or not. So many phantom fouls. And Markus had blood on his arm, yet he wasn't fouled.

[muwarrior69]

Except it's not.  It's not a foul unless the refs call it a foul.  That's their job.

I umpire baseball, and the same applies there.  I see pitchers all the time throw a good curve that they think just catches the corner for strike 3, then start walking off.  When I say "ball" they get mad, but it's not a strike until I call it a strike.  That's how the game works.

Hmm... so the same pitch could be a strike for one team, but a ball for the other. Does not give me much confidence in the integrity of sports.

[Galway Eagle]

Hmm... so the same pitch could be a strike for one team, but a ball for the other. Does not give me much confidence in the integrity of sports.

this isn't anything new though. Human error is a part of sports. Strikes, did a guy step on the line, get a shot off before buzzer, was a ten count too long, a fight should've been stopped, a foul or not, a hand ball or not, the list goes on and on and on.

[MU82]

...but Theo and Ed get called whether they're aggressive or not. So many phantom fouls. And Markus had blood on his arm, yet he wasn't fouled.

Although I think Theo "earned" every one of his fouls the last couple of games, sure, I understand what you're saying.

But I assure you that the other team's fans say the exact same thing about fouls that some of their guys were getting called for and some of our guys weren't.

Our guys can't control it, they just have to play better and smarter and stronger with the ball.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Although I think Theo "earned" every one of his fouls the last couple of games, sure, I understand what you're saying.

But I assure you that the other team's fans say the exact same thing about fouls that some of their guys were getting called for and some of our guys weren't.

Our guys can't control it, they just have to play better and smarter and stronger with the ball.

This is all true but what fans here are calling for is consistency.  However, styles of play are different between teams.  Teams are now hard hedging Marquette's perimeter.  Marquette actually guards well on the perimeter with their positioning without fouling.

For example, BE refs will call Theo and Ed often for not fully setting a pick (which they are usually guilty of as Wojo teaches the Duke hit and go slip screen). Yet, teams are not getting the calls on hard hedging (arm bars, grabbing, aggressive bodying).  Both are points of emphasis.  Only one is getting called consistently, made worse by differing styles of play.

If Nova or Creighton played MU in the NCAAs with PAC12 officials, the foul outcomes of our two games would be vastly different. And that is the complaint.  That is also why I am not a fan of the points of emphasis as I think it has led to more, not less, inconsistency.  A foul is a foul. Call it. Like the NFL, these types of oversight rules make refs litigators.

[#UnleashSean]

Except it's not.  It's not a foul unless the refs call it a foul.  That's their job.

I umpire baseball, and the same applies there.  I see pitchers all the time throw a good curve that they think just catches the corner for strike 3, then start walking off.  When I say "ball" they get mad, but it's not a strike until I call it a strike.  That's how the game works.

You seem power hungry and have very low integrity if your calling a strike a ball because it's such an easy call the pitcher walks off knowing it's a strike

[Bocephys]

Hmm... so the same pitch could be a strike for one team, but a ball for the other. Does not give me much confidence in the integrity of sports.

Are you just coming to this realization?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You seem power hungry and have very low integrity if your calling a strike a ball because it's such an easy call the pitcher walks off knowing it's a strike

When did he say he did that?

[MU82]

This is all true but what fans here are calling for is consistency. 

Agreed.

This is elusive, however -- especially in basketball, where something can be called on either team on just about every half-court possession. Brutally difficult game to officiate.

[SaveOD238]

You seem power hungry and have very low integrity if your calling a strike a ball because it's such an easy call the pitcher walks off knowing it's a strike

Pitcher doesn't know it's a strike until I say so.  He can think it's a strike all he wants.

[jesmu84]

Pitcher doesn't know it's a strike until I say so.  He can think it's a strike all he wants.

Um. Doesn't the rulebook define what a strike is?

[Marcus92]

The rulebook doesn't call balls and strikes during a game.

[jesmu84]

The rulebook doesn't call balls and strikes during a game.

Right. But the rulebook defines it and the ref/ump enforces the written rules during the game.

The ref/ump doesn't just get to decide to do whatever they want whenever they want (Tim donaghy not withstanding)

[Marcus92]

Right. But the rulebook defines it and the ref/ump enforces the written rules during the game.

The ref/ump doesn't just get to decide to do whatever they want whenever they want (Tim donaghy not withstanding)

All true. I might say refs do their best to interpret and apply the rules during a game. There are so many calls that could go either way in basketball. There's some level of contact on virtually every drive. Was it a reach-in? A push-off? Charging? Defensive blocking? Refs have guidelines and training to go on. But ultimately it's up to their judgment.

While you hope refs call games correctly and consistently, they're going to miss something. Or make the wrong call. They're only human. But apart from replay reversals, their bad calls stand. Rules or not. Even a post-game review of the officiating can't change the outcome of a game once it's decided.

[SaveOD238]

All true. I might say refs do their best to interpret and apply the rules during a game. There are so many calls that could go either way in basketball. There's some level of contact on virtually every drive. Was it a reach-in? A push-off? Charging? Defensive blocking? Refs have guidelines and training to go on. But ultimately it's up to their judgment.

While you hope refs call games correctly and consistently, they're going to miss something. Or make the wrong call. They're only human. But apart from replay reversals, their bad calls stand. Rules or not. Even a post-game review of the officiating can't change the outcome of a game once it's decided.

So you gotta deal with the calls the refs make. You gotta adjust.  If the umpire is giving the pitcher the inside corner more often than not, you better choke up and protect inside.  If the ref is calling ticky-tack reach ins, you gotta play a little less aggressively on defense.  It's the same as adjusting to the opposing team. I

[Dr. Blackheart]

Um. Doesn't the rulebook define what a strike is?

Only Joe West defines what a strike is.

[MUfanatic45]

3 possessions 3 TO's

It will not stop

[HowardsWorld]

4 on 4. Clearly learned nothing.

[TFlegend]

4 POS, 4 turnovers.  LOL.

[warriors141]

this is really concerning. the hausers have completely lost it

[MUeng]

Sam is straight garbage right now.  Put in cain or bailey.  Hey, maybe this T by Theo will fire up the squad?  worth a short eh?