Vote

[WarriorDad]

You're misinterpreting what's happening with those ballots. Because Snipes (or someone in her charge) is a dope who mixed a small number of illegal ballots with the other provisionals, and because the state refused to give her office time to separate them, she submitted them all in order to meet the deadline. Her thinking being not - as you claim -  "Let's count these non-citizen ballots," but rather, "Let's not throw out almost 185 potentially valid ballots because of 20 invalid ballots." In the unlikely event the count is such that those 20 ballots actually matter, there will be plenty of time after the fact to litigate that.
Make sense? This is a mess of Snipes' creating, to be sure, but it's not as you and the likes of Bretbart claim.

Miami Herald is not Breitbart.  I understand your point, but what is to stop any election official then to put a bunch of votes in that are are from non citizens and then claim that it isn't worth taking them out because it would jeopardize other legitimate votes?  Those 20 plus votes also are not legitimate.    Right now attorneys for Nelson are fighting to keep them in, which again is why the conspiracy theories come up.  A document was shown today on the news of the attorneys arguing to keep those votes in. 

Incompetence ends up hurting a candidate, does it not?

[GGGG]

Miami Herald is not Breitbart.  I understand your point, but what is stop any election official then to put a bunch of votes in that are are from non citizens and then claim that it isn't worth taking them out because it would jeopardize other legitimate votes?  Those 20 plus votes also are not legitimate.    Right now attorneys for Nelson are fighting to keep them in, which again is why the conspiracy theories come up.  A document was shown today on the news of the attorneys arguing to keep those votes in. 

Incompetence ends up hurting a candidate, does it not?

Incompetence hurt everyone.  But not as much as attributing incompetence to conspiracy. 

[WarriorDad]

Incompetence hurt everyone.  But not as much as attributing incompetence to conspiracy.

When it happens over and over and over in the same place and benefits the same party each time, I'm guessing you will continue to receive conspiracy theories.  At some point when some incompetence become practice?  Not a good look, again, for Broward and Palm counties.  A history of this.

[Pakuni]

Miami Herald is not Breitbart.  I understand your point, but what is stop any election official then to put a bunch of votes in that are are from non citizens and then claim that it isn't worth taking them out because it would jeopardize other legitimate votes?  Those 20 plus votes also are not legitimate.    Right now attorneys for Nelson are fighting to keep them in, which again is why the conspiracy theories come up.  A document was shown today on the news of the attorneys arguing to keep those votes in. 

Incompetence ends up hurting a candidate, does it not?

The Miami Herald is not claiming that this is some conspiracy to rig the election.
Again, in the exceptionally unlikely event that the election is decided by < 20  votes, the Scott campaign has a strong case to seek a re-examination of those 20 ballots. Until such time, those 20 ballots are meaningless.
On the other hand, if excluding those 20 ballots means also excluding as many as 185 valid ballots, you've just stripped 185 people of one of their most important rights. That is meaningful.
Seems like you'd rather disenfranchise 185 voters than deal with the hassle of excluding 20 later. Why?

FWIW, let's be honest here, the Scott campaign is far more worried about those 185 ballots than the 20. The 20  - which ultimately will be tossed out if they make a difference  - is just a convenient excuse to not count the 185.

[Pakuni]

When it happens over and over and over in the same place and benefits the same party each time, I'm guessing you will continue to receive conspiracy theories.  At some point when some incompetence become practice?  Not a good look, again, for Broward and Palm counties.  A history of this.

Please stop defending conspiracy theories. It makes you sound like a loon.

[brewcity77]

When it happens over and over and over in the same place and benefits the same party each time, I'm guessing you will continue to receive conspiracy theories.  At some point when some incompetence become practice?  Not a good look, again, for Broward and Palm counties.  A history of this.

Surprised you aren't talking about Wisconsin in similar fashion. The votes were found and counted sooner, but was the Milwaukee situation that different?

I watched the results come in as Evers' big lead dwindled throughout the night until Walker took the lead. Once Walker took the lead and Milwaukee supposedly had 99% of votes counted, it looked over. Then they announced there were 45,000 uncounted absentee ballots from Milwaukee County. I knew Evers would win at that point.

Of course, the greatest irony is not only did it give Evers the margin of victory, but also enough of a margin that Walker couldn't call for a recount because of a law he signed last year preventing recalls with a margin over 1%.

[Babybluejeans]

Incompetence ends up hurting a candidate, does it not?

Trump got elected, so no.

[Jockey]

There are still ballots being counted in states all over the country.

The fact that some races are really close does not change that fact.

It is no indication of whether these counts are corrupt or not. None!

[mu03eng]

The election system is the way it is because both parties want it to be f'ed up. They want the uncertainty and confusion because it allows them to spin these conspiracies and shift focus for bad candidates or bad operations. The Russian hacking thing is also a further red herring, you could easily create an electronic voting system that wasn't hackable but then we might have less chaos and spend money in the right places instead of the wrong places. C'est la vie I guess

[dgies9156]

Provisional ballots are allowed because there is no remedy for someone being improperly barred from voting. If, say, the election judge screws up, the disenfranchised person can't simply come back a few days later and try again. That right to vote in that election is denied forever. So they cast a ballot that remains in a sort of limbo until his or her eligibility can be determined.
How anyone would find this unusual or unreasonable, much less inconceivable, is beyond me.

Here's why. The system of registration in the State of Florida is clear. You register by "X" date. You bring an ID to the polling place. You vote.

I'm not sure what's complicated about that. If one restricts provisional ballots to persons who do not show up on the voter registration rolls who should be there, OK. You should have about five ballots per precinct. Even as tight as the Florida races are (and there is a third one, Agricultural Commissioner, that's also ridiculously close), there should not be many provisional ballots.

Look, if Miami-Dade can get it done on time and correctly and our little bitty county can manage, Floridians have to wonder about Broward and Palm Beach Counties. Keep in mind the hanging chads in 2000 came from, gee, Palm Beach County.

What scares me the most is the possibility that the current results could be reversed come next week, or the week after. If that happens, this state will be ungovernable The fear I have is that the bitterness and anger over President Trump will be a minor tantrum compared to what will happen down here. I know things were close and both Senator Nelson and Candidate Gillum have legitimate concerns, but at some point one has to have confidence in the electoral system. Changing the results two weeks afterward is going to have huge ramifications for the next four and six years.

[Pakuni]

Here's why. The system of registration in the State of Florida is clear. You register by "X" date. You bring an ID to the polling place. You vote.

Except the people who run elections are human beings who make mistakes. The provisional ballot process is in place to account for those mistakes. Would you be fine with losing your right to vote because some clerical error led to you being removed from the voter rolls? I suspect not.

And no, there aren't a lot of provisional ballots. In the 2016 election in Florida, there were a little less than 11,000 provisional ballots - out of 9.6 million in all. That's about 1/9th of 1 percent.

What scares me the most is the possibility that the current results could be reversed come next week, or the week after. If that happens, this state will be ungovernable The fear I have is that the bitterness and anger over President Trump will be a minor tantrum compared to what will happen down here. I know things were close and both Senator Nelson and Candidate Gillum have legitimate concerns, but at some point one has to have confidence in the electoral system. Changing the results two weeks afterward is going to have huge ramifications for the next four and six years.

No results are changing, though. The results aren't final when CNN or the AP declares a winner, or when the counting is done on election night, or when one side declares victory. The results are final when all the valid ballots have been counted, whatever legal recounts are needed have been completed and the canvassing process is complete. This typically is done 10-14 days after election day.
How does one have faith in an electoral system that says "We won't count all the legally cast ballots because we're in a hurry"?
And, no,  Florida isn't going to descend into ungovernable chaos because of a close election.

[jesmu84]

Except the people who run elections are human beings who make mistakes. The provisional ballot process is in place to account for those mistakes. Would you be fine with losing your right to vote because some clerical error led to you being removed from the voter rolls? I suspect not.

And no, there aren't a lot of provisional ballots. In the 2016 election in Florida, there were a little less than 11,000 provisional ballots - out of 9.6 million in all. That's about 1/9th of 1 percent.


No results are changing, though. The results aren't final when CNN or the AP declares a winner, or when the counting is done on election night, or when one side declares victory. The results are final when all the valid ballots have been counted, whatever legal recounts are needed have been completed and the canvassing process is complete. This typically is done 10-14 days after election day.
How does one have faith in an electoral system that says "We won't count all the legally cast ballots because we're in a hurry"?
And, no,  Florida isn't going to descend into ungovernable chaos because of a close election.

Way too much logic and reason here

[brewcity77]

And, no,  Florida isn't going to descend into ungovernable chaos because of a close election.

No, I'm pretty sure Florida is already in a state of ungovernable chaos and will continue to be so, no matter how the results come out. That state is just messed up. Really like to let Scott Pruitt institute fracking plans right along the northern Florida border and just let it quake off into the sea.

[Lennys Tap]

No, I'm pretty sure Florida is already in a state of ungovernable chaos and will continue to be so, no matter how the results come out. That state is just messed up. Really like to let Scott Pruitt institute fracking plans right along the northern Florida border and just let it quake off into the sea.

Bigotry.

[brewcity77]

Bigotry.

Not sure why you quoted me there. Doesn't really connect to my comment at all.

[vogue65]

I've been there when the doors are locked and the machines are impounded.

My only recommendation to improve the process is to have an age limit for poll workers.

The police are present,  only authorised people are allowed inside the polling building, lots of checks and balances. 

Representatives of both major parties are presnt and representatives of anyone else running for office may be present.  There are computer runs, paper tapes provided to those wishing them.

Then the phones are used to phone in the results to county headquarters of the parties, news outlets, etc.  Ah, an opportunity for a mistake. 

I have also been present, years ago, where paper ballots were used for a school board election.  The poor old poll worker had a tremendous problem getting the numbers and names correct.  They could not get the books to balance, and it was "only" a school board election.  Number of votes cast did not match the results, ah the undercount.  The names of the candidates were similar and the hearing of the poll workers suspect, oh well.

Then we have the subject of the election judge or judges and the pro bono lawyers running around the county putting out fires, the broken machines, the blown fuses, the illegal electioneering at the polling place, moving of polling places (fire houses, town halls, schools), etc..

That is all followed by the knownothing partisans bickering.

[vogue65]

No results are changing, though. The results aren't final when CNN or the AP declares a winner, or when the counting is done on election night, or when one side declares victory. The results are final when all the valid ballots have been counted, whatever legal recounts are needed have been completed and the canvassing process is complete. This typically is done 10-14 days after election day.
How does one have faith in an electoral system that says "We won't count all the legally cast ballots because we're in a hurry"?
And, no,  Florida isn't going to descend into ungovernable chaos because of a close election.

Right on, our elections should not be determened by news organizations.  Count all the votes, period.

It ain't over until the last vote is counted and if necessary recounted.  What place do politicians or political hacks have in our voting process?  It is only the ignorant news media who creates the controversy.

This year I voted absentee, I know my vote was counted fairly, I know someone who does the counting.  Representatives from each party do the counting and nobody is suggesting that we simply don't count votes.

[MU82]

Here's some encouraging stuff about young Americans getting out the vote:

https://wtop.com/national/2018/11/the-other-2018-midterm-wave-a-historic-10-point-jump-in-turnout-among-young-people/

Cliff Notes ...

++ Voter turnout among 18 to 29-year-olds in the 2018 midterm elections was 31 percent, the highest observed since 1994.

++ It’s also a major increase from turnout in the 2014 midterms, which was 21 percent.

++ "Young people should be feeling powerful and hopeful that they can in fact exercise their votes to affect American politics."

++ The proportion of young people who joined protests and marches tripled since the fall of 2016, from 5 percent to 15 percent. Participation was especially high among young people who are registered as Democrats.

++ In 2016, about 26 percent of young people said they were paying at least some attention to the November elections. This fall, the proportion of youth who reported that they were paying attention to the midterm races rose to 46 percent.

++ Political involvement in this generation is far above the levels we usually see among youth, especially in midterm election cycles. In fact, almost 3 out of 4 youth – 72 percent – said they believe that dramatic change could occur in this country if people banded together.

++ About 67 percent of young people supported Democratic House candidates, compared to just 32 percent for Republican candidates. This 35-point gap is even larger than their preference toward Democrats in 2008, when President Barack Obama was first elected.

++ This preference no doubt helped some Democratic candidates in states such as Wisconsin, Montana and Nevada. For example, Sen. Jon Tester of Montana won his reelection by a narrow margin of less than 6,000 votes. Young Montanans, by favoring him by 67 percent to 28 percent, gave him a relative vote advantage of over 25,000 votes. If young Montanans voted like older Montanans did on Tuesday, Montana would have a Republican Senator today.

[vogue65]

It is finally the end of wedge issue politics. 
It has been 40 years since the government is the problem mentality started.
The kids see that good government is the solution.

[mu03eng]

It is finally the end of wedge issue politics. 
It has been 40 years since the government is the problem mentality started.
The kids see that good government is the solution.

Could you site an example of the bolded?

[Lennys Tap]

Not sure why you quoted me there. Doesn't really connect to my comment at all.

Hating groups of people because of race, religion or geography seems like bigotry to me.

[Pakuni]

Hating groups of people because of race, religion or geography seems like bigotry to me.

Yes, let's make"Floridian" a protected class. The ongoing persecution of the Sunshine State, as self-inflicted as it may be, must end now.

*bookmarking this post for the next time someone here pokes fun at Illinois.

[brewcity77]

Hating groups of people because of race, religion or geography seems like bigotry to me.

Not sure how pointing out Florida's state of constant political chaos is "hating groups of people because of...geography".

[MU82]

Hating groups of people because of race, religion or geography seems like bigotry to me.

You don't think brewski was joking? Or do you really think he was serious about "letting Scott Pruitt institute fracking plans right along the northern Florida border and just let it quake off into the sea"?

I mean, Pruitt isn't even around any more. He had to go after stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from U.S. taxpayers -- not until after his boss spent months and months defending him, of course, but still.

Plus, I'd miss orange juice, tupelo honey and D-Wade. And having the Tampa Bay Bucs to beat up on.

C'mon, Lenny ... aren't you one of the folks who recoils at the PC police and about folks taking themselves too seriously?

[brewcity77]

You don't think brewski was joking? Or do you really think he was serious about "letting Scott Pruitt institute fracking plans right along the northern Florida border and just let it quake off into the sea"?

Definitely joking. When we visit my parents in Altoona, we usually drive. If Pruitt sent his fracking team to the panhandle they'd either have to build a bridge or we'd have to fly, which would mean leaving the dogs at home. My wife might be able to leave the daughter at home for 7-10 days, but not the dogs.