ESPN: Why does BPI rate Marquette higher than Duke or Kentucky?

[Golden Avalanche]

I agree with all of this. Friends who attended other schools with good to excellent basketball teams (KU, Nova, UofI, etc.) think Wojo has been failure at MU and think MU can do better. Granted, these are not ADs and I disagree with them but I don't have a lot to defend Wojo on. The perception is Wojo is another in a long line of disappointing Duke assistants.

The bigger point is Wojo would be a hard sell to fan bases of other big time basketball programs and not likely to get a look any time soon. (just my uninformed internet opinion)

Exact opposite perception of Wojo's time at Marquette (especially the Nova people) from the basketball community in the NYC metro.

[chapman]

The answer to their question is because BPI is a dumb metric ESPN came up with for attention.  Though it's far less annoying than "QBR".

[MU82]

They had a terrible season and were lucky to get into the tournament.

It was not a "terrible" season. It was not as good as many earlier seasons. Our season in Wojo's first year was "terrible." Our season in Buzz's last year might have been "terrible," especially when considering the expectations going in.

Some of you younger guys do not remember that Al wanted out.  He tried on several occasions to leave.   

Yep. If the coaching environment back then were similar to now, Al would have left MU before he ever won a national title.

Today's universities do not stop coaches from leaving, no matter if they have 1,000 years left on their contracts. The contracts are pretty much meaningful only in the $$$ - the school must still pay a fired coach, and a coach who leaves might have to pay a buyout. But the years ... meaningless.

[fjm]

Someone says something nice about MU and half of scoop loses their mind about the HC (that they roasted the last two years) possibly leaving.

Can’t have fun with anything ‘round here no mo.

That said, I can’t wait for the October prediction threads.

[MU82]

Someone says something nice about MU and half of scoop loses their mind about the HC (that they roasted the last two years) possibly leaving.

Can’t have fun with anything ‘round here no mo.

That said, I can’t wait for the October prediction threads.

Not sure any Scoopers "lost their mind," but I get what you're saying.

[fjm]

Not sure any Scoopers "lost their mind," but I get what you're saying.

Haha. True. To be fair I come from a family of over exaggerators.

[Benny B]

I agree with all of this. Friends who attended other schools with good to excellent basketball teams (KU, Nova, UofI, etc.) think Wojo has been failure at MU and think MU can do better. Granted, these are not ADs and I disagree with them but I don't have a lot to defend Wojo on. The perception is Wojo is another in a long line of disappointing Duke assistants.

The bigger point is Wojo would be a hard sell to fan bases of other big time basketball programs and not likely to get a look any time soon. (just my uninformed internet opinion)

Since when is Illinois considered a school with a “good to excellent” basketball team?   By that measure, Marquette is a blue blood.

[dgies9156]

They had a terrible season and were lucky to get into the tournament.

If 1976-1977 is your definition of terrible, you've hibernated through much of the last 41 seasons.

Compared to 28-1, maybe. But the last team to be that good and win it all happened a long time ago. But our record in 1976-1977 was pretty good compared to recent times.

[GGGG]

I agree with all of this. Friends who attended other schools with good to excellent basketball teams (KU, Nova, UofI, etc.) think Wojo has been failure at MU and think MU can do better. Granted, these are not ADs and I disagree with them but I don't have a lot to defend Wojo on. The perception is Wojo is another in a long line of disappointing Duke assistants.

The bigger point is Wojo would be a hard sell to fan bases of other big time basketball programs and not likely to get a look any time soon. (just my uninformed internet opinion)

Right now Wojo would be a tough sell.  But that's not really the point.  Wojo has done most things right in building the program from the ground up.  This upcoming year is exactly what he has been building toward.  If the guy has grown as a coach, we should see the results this year.  And those results are should what make him desirable.

[muwarrior69]

If 1976-1977 is your definition of terrible, you've hibernated through much of the last 41 seasons.

Compared to 28-1, maybe. But the last team to be that good and win it all happened a long time ago. But our record in 1976-1977 was pretty good compared to recent times.

They were terrible. My memory fails me but they lost 4 or 5 of their last 6 games. They were the worst team, IMHO, Al had in the 70s. Their saving grace was getting an at larger birth, which some did not think they deserved with 7 losses, and then winning the championship.

But, yeah, if you want to compare them to all the dismal teams MU had in the 80s and early 90s they were great by comparison.

[Galway Eagle]

They were terrible. My memory fails me but they lost 4 or 5 of their last 6 games. They were the worst team, IMHO, Al had in the 70s. Their saving grace was getting an at larger birth, which some did not think they deserved with 7 losses, and then winning the championship.

But, yeah, if you want to compare them to all the dismal teams MU had in the 80s and early 90s they were great by comparison.

They had a 2-4 stretch but closed out 5-1.

I think the argument against them being terrible that dgles is using is what non Al or Wade teams would you put ahead of them? And I think his  assumption is the answer is none thus they are still better than almost everything since.

[Galway Eagle]

Since when is Illinois considered a school with a “good to excellent” basketball team?   By that measure, Marquette is a blue blood.

To be fair they have more final fours, and elite 8s than us and almost as many NCAA births. We may not be as far above them as you think.

[Coleman]

Exact opposite perception of Wojo's time at Marquette (especially the Nova people) from the basketball community in the NYC metro.

I don't think Wojo has been a failure, but I am curious on what basis people think he is the exact opposite (one can only assume you mean an undisputed success?)

I'd give Wojo a C+ so far. This year has a lot of potential. But he hasn't delivered much yet.

[Coleman]

They were terrible. My memory fails me but they lost 4 or 5 of their last 6 games. They were the worst team, IMHO, Al had in the 70s. Their saving grace was getting an at larger birth, which some did not think they deserved with 7 losses, and then winning the championship.

But, yeah, if you want to compare them to all the dismal teams MU had in the 80s and early 90s they were great by comparison.

Only on Scoop does someone call our only National Championship winning team "terrible"

They definitely were not terrible. They had a 3 game slump towards the end of the season. 5 of their 7 losses all season were to top-20 ranked teams (can you imagine a modern MU team going all season with only 2 losses to unranked teams? Our 2003 Final Four team had 4). They also beat 7 top-20 teams. They had a hell of a SOS. They would be the modern equivalent of 4 seed winning it all. Not the favorite but not that much of a surprise.

[PorkysButthole]

  if salaries remain equal, other than the weather(and maybe the coeds ) MU is a better place to be, imho of course.  most other top tier programs have to compete with football.  at MU, men's basketball is "football".  our fans are as good as any or better.  AND, we have probably one of the best arenas to play in.  you bring MU to the top 10-15 or better, it will get all the national attention one needs-just win baby!

About time someone brought up the weather.  It's difficult to live in a place where it's the dead of winter 8 /12 months a year, no matter how great the facilities or supportive the fans and administration are.   Lifestyle and family matters! Porky loved 4 yrs in MKE but ultimately wanted to live in a place with 4 seasons, not 2, one of which lasts 8 months.

[dgies9156]

Only on Scoop does someone call our only National Championship winning team "terrible"

Right on, Brother Coleman.

I know a lot of us at the time thought losing seven was akin to having a losing season. The night we lost to Louisville after Coach McGuire announced he was retiring or the bitter loss to a Vitale-coached Dewtroit team on Coach McGuire's last home game was pretty disappointing.

But Good God, that 1976-1977 team probably could destroy just about any team we've had since.

41 years later and we're still working to recapture the moment. We've had one brief shining moment since -- the DWade team and its victory against Kentucky. But by and large, we who remember have been angry, frustrated and even hurt by the performance of our beloved Warriors during the past 41 years.

That said, I'm confident Wojo is headed in the right direction. I'm also confident he's here as long as we want him. Yes, Duke could come calling, but if Duke is serious about Coach Wojo, then I'd argue we're probably going to have solved our defensive woes and have at least one more regional championship under our belts.  I don't see his rise being fast enough and thorough enough to assume Coach K's mantle.

[Galway Eagle]

Right on, Brother Coleman.

I know a lot of us at the time thought losing seven was akin to having a losing season. The night we lost to Louisville after Coach McGuire announced he was retiring or the bitter loss to a Vitale-coached Dewtroit team on Coach McGuire's last home game was pretty disappointing.

But Good God, that 1976-1977 team probably could destroy just about any team we've had since.

41 years later and we're still working to recapture the moment. We've had one brief shining moment since -- the DWade team and its victory against Kentucky. But by and large, we who remember have been angry, frustrated and even hurt by the performance of our beloved Warriors during the past 41 years.

Since then (minus 03) we've had four conference championships four sweet 16s, and an elite 8 in 15 NCAA appearances and Travis drinking more milk growing up away from one or two more. Yet your comment comes off like we've had one year you can be proud of since 77.

[Golden Avalanche]

I don't think Wojo has been a failure, but I am curious on what basis people think he is the exact opposite (one can only assume you mean an undisputed success?)

I'd give Wojo a C+ so far. This year has a lot of potential. But he hasn't delivered much yet.

The people I know and interact with (players, coaches, administrators, etc.) understand what Wojo was dealing with when he came to Marquette. They remember the cobbled together first squad made up of castoffs and rejects. They know that MU is bounces away from being 10-8 in the league last year with a win over Xavier or Nova and should be looking for their third NCAA in a row this coming season. They see guys like Ellenson, Johnson, Reinhardt, Howard, Rowsey, Hauser and know Wojo can work with talent.
Consensus out here is Wojo has fared okay during his apprentice period and has had a successful start to his head coaching career.


$hit, Wojo is miles ahead of what Willard had accomplished in his first few years and there are Scoopers who think Willard walks on water. Most Scoopers love the guys elsewhere and downplay their own guy. In the world outside this cesspool, it's the opposite thought process.

[Its DJOver]

The people I know and interact with (players, coaches, administrators, etc.) understand what Wojo was dealing with when he came to Marquette. They remember the cobbled together first squad made up of castoffs and rejects. They know that MU is bounces away from being 10-8 in the league last year with a win over Xavier or Nova and should be looking for their third NCAA in a row this coming season. They see guys like Ellenson, Johnson, Reinhardt, Howard, Rowsey, Hauser and know Wojo can work with talent.
Consensus out here is Wojo has fared okay during his apprentice period and has had a successful start to his head coaching career.


$hit, Wojo is miles ahead of what Willard had accomplished in his first few years and there are Scoopers who think Willard walks on water. Most Scoopers love the guys elsewhere and downplay their own guy. In the world outside this cesspool, it's the opposite thought process.

If there is one post that sums up our fan-base over the last four years, its this one.  Frustration that things are going about the same way that anyone without B+G tint would have expected them to go.

Great stuff GA

[MUDPT]

BPI gave the Spurs an 8% chance of beating the warriors AFTER they were down 2-0. So BPI thought the Spurs has an 8% chance of beating the warriors 4 times in 5 games. It should have been about 2%.

[Floorslapper]

The people I know and interact with (players, coaches, administrators, etc.) understand what Wojo was dealing with when he came to Marquette. They remember the cobbled together first squad made up of castoffs and rejects. They know that MU is bounces away from being 10-8 in the league last year with a win over Xavier or Nova and should be looking for their third NCAA in a row this coming season. They see guys like Ellenson, Johnson, Reinhardt, Howard, Rowsey, Hauser and know Wojo can work with talent.
Consensus out here is Wojo has fared okay during his apprentice period and has had a successful start to his head coaching career.


$hit, Wojo is miles ahead of what Willard had accomplished in his first few years and there are Scoopers who think Willard walks on water. Most Scoopers love the guys elsewhere and downplay their own guy. In the world outside this cesspool, it's the opposite thought process.

Wojo walked into an MU program that had made NCAA 8 of previous 9 years, with the Al McGuire Center, and a program that invests heavily/among the best in D-1 basketball.  Trying to compare Kevin Willard's starting point at Seton Hall and Wojo is absurd.

The results thus far at best are a "C."  Many metrics point to MU being Top 15 team this year and that's a testament to Wojo/staff.  Rubber meets the road this year as it relates to Wojo's coaching skills.  He's had 4 years of learning on the job, and now in 5th year with experienced, skilled roster - if he can't get the job done on a a solid level this year (NCAA bid 6+ seed), he'll likely never be anything more.  And, that to me is okay.  MU being a consistent NCAA team with occasional second weekend runs is acceptable/solid performance from a coach.

[Its DJOver]

Wojo walked into an MU program that had made NCAA 8 of previous 9 years, with the Al McGuire Center, and a program that invests heavily/among the best in D-1 basketball.  Trying to compare Kevin Willard's starting point at Seton Hall and Wojo is absurd.

If we're going to start using arbitrary time frames, Wojo walked into a program that had no postseason the year before, while Willard walked into a program that had made the NIT the previous season.   The point still stands that some scoopers always have the grass is greener mentality when looking at other programs (Musselman and Moser were the latest names to come up).  They see the success of one season without looking at the building blocks to that season, which often included quite a few poor seasons.

[Loose Cannon]

If there is one post that sums up our fan-base over the last four years, its this one.  Frustration that things are going about the same way that anyone without B+G tint would have expected them to go.

Great stuff GA

I would agree, Dead On.

[Lennys Tap]

They were terrible. My memory fails me but they lost 4 or 5 of their last 6 games.

Your memory does indeed fail you. Marquette final 6 regular season games that year were on the road. We won the first 5 and were beating #2 Michigan at the half when Al got the news that we were "in". We lost that game by 1, then won 5 straight in the tournament.

[Lennys Tap]

Some of you younger guys do not remember that Al wanted out.  He tried on several occasions to leave.

Al tried to leave once (to coach the Bucks), not "several" times. Fr Raynor said no, you've got a contract. Al agreed.