Cavaliers Vs Magic

[Murffieus]

But, Murff, with the way NBA defenses double on star players, wouldn't the wide post be awfully tough to run?

Not at all difficult off the double down as there are two remedies----#1 cut the guy who makes the pass to the wide postup from a position midway between the wing & PG positions to the otherside of the floor which gives the wide postup more isolation to work one and one off of. -----#2 rotate the guy who's man is doing the doubling to the sideline for the kick out trey -----the defensive doubler can't recover in time (if they stop the two pointer make them pay with the three).

[Mayor McCheese]

You think it's that bad?  I was watching, and thinking the same thing.  How does a Carmelo/Howard match-up come close to generating the revenue a Kobe/James match-up would.  As Howard picked up BS fouls, it began to make me believe the league is that pathetic.  I remember feeling that way, along with many others, when the Bucks lost in the semi's to Iverson.

On a side note...I am downright sick of any comparison to Jordan between those two.  Look at the teams and players that Jordan beat so consistently, and then you look at the Nuggets and Magic and realize how James and Kobe aren't in the same league, period. 

Wait... so this year's Nuggets and Magic don't compare to the 97 Sonic team and the 98 Jazz team that Jordan's all-star filled Bulls team had to beat?

I get it, Michael Jordan is arguably the best player ever to play basketball.  But stick the '09 LeBron James on those Bulls teams of the mid-90's and you get the same result, the Bulls with the NBA championship.

Ho Grant, Pippen, Armstrong, Paxson on the first three
Rodman, Pippen, Harper on the last three

Jordan's supporting cast was all-star filled, where Kobe's Lakers and LeBron's Cavs are not.  Yes, Mo Williams made the all-star team this year.. is he of Pippen's caliber... or even Ron Harper's?

Is Pau Gasol a better player to have than Dennis Rodman, the best rebounder the league has ever seen?

I understand that Jordan was the best ever, I just wish people would give the rest of his team credit... he didn't win those 6 rings by himself.. where I would argue if James won it this year, it would be just as, if not more, impressive than any single one win by a Jordan Bulls team... with the possible exception of the 72-10 year.

[avid1010]

Wait... so this year's Nuggets and Magic don't compare to the 97 Sonic team and the 98 Jazz team that Jordan's all-star filled Bulls team had to beat?

I get it, Michael Jordan is arguably the best player ever to play basketball.  But stick the '09 LeBron James on those Bulls teams of the mid-90's and you get the same result, the Bulls with the NBA championship.

Ho Grant, Pippen, Armstrong, Paxson on the first three
Rodman, Pippen, Harper on the last three

Jordan's supporting cast was all-star filled, where Kobe's Lakers and LeBron's Cavs are not.  Yes, Mo Williams made the all-star team this year.. is he of Pippen's caliber... or even Ron Harper's?

Is Pau Gasol a better player to have than Dennis Rodman, the best rebounder the league has ever seen?

I understand that Jordan was the best ever, I just wish people would give the rest of his team credit... he didn't win those 6 rings by himself.. where I would argue if James won it this year, it would be just as, if not more, impressive than any single one win by a Jordan Bulls team... with the possible exception of the 72-10 year.

The teams that Labron and Kobe currently have can only be compared to Jordan's team if the competition is equal.  I would argue that Jordan had a much more difficult road to his championships (team members taken into consideration) then Labron or Kobe have this year.  Pippen was average without Jordan, and Jordan said it himself.  Put Labron on those teams and there's no way they win...he doesn't have the game management skills that Jordan has, nor does Kobe.  Wade's championship run was the closest I have ever seen, and there are plenty of statistics to show it was more impressive; however, the competition wasn't as strong.

[Mayor McCheese]

The teams that Labron and Kobe currently have can only be compared to Jordan's team if the competition is equal.  I would argue that Jordan had a much more difficult road to his championships (team members taken into consideration) then Labron or Kobe have this year.  Pippen was average without Jordan, and Jordan said it himself.  Put Labron on those teams and there's no way they win...he doesn't have the game management skills that Jordan has, nor does Kobe.  Wade's championship run was the closest I have ever seen, and there are plenty of statistics to show it was more impressive; however, the competition wasn't as strong.

Again, I am going to argue that the Nuggets and Magic this year are far superior to the 97 Sonics or the 98 Jazz.

Throughout the mid to late 90s... there wasn't much competition in the East as well.  Detroit wasn't what they use to be, the Magic were too young, no one was that good.

To say Pippen was merely average without Jordan, I still want to ask who on the Cavs besides LeBron is half as good as Pippen?  Mo Williams, no thank you.

[reinko]

The teams that Labron and Kobe currently have can only be compared to Jordan's team if the competition is equal.  I would argue that Jordan had a much more difficult road to his championships (team members taken into consideration) then Labron or Kobe have this year.  Pippen was average without Jordan, and Jordan said it himself.  Put Labron on those teams and there's no way they win...he doesn't have the game management skills that Jordan has, nor does Kobe.  Wade's championship run was the closest I have ever seen, and there are plenty of statistics to show it was more impressive; however, the competition wasn't as strong.

This is comical at best.  Last time I checked, Jordan never won a championship without Pippen either.  And less you forget, Pippen was named one of the top 50 players of all time.  And what about Jordan playing with 3 of the top 3 points shooters in NBA history (Hodges, Paxson, and Herr).  Add in Kukoc, a matchup nightmare back in 90's (6'10" Euro that can gun), and you are telling me that you put Bron on those teams and they don't win the championship? 

Name me one player on the '91 Lakers, 92 Trailblazers, 93 Suns, 96 Sonics, 97 or 98 Jazz that could D up on LeBron?  Kemp in his prime, maybe.

[Mayor McCheese]

avid... I get it, you are from Chicago, MJ is the holy land....

But give me a break, the Bulls in the 90s were very good, MJ was the best player on the team, but his teams were stacked...


LeBron could have done the same on those teams, maybe won more because he wouldn't have dabbled with baseball like Jordan.

[reinko]

Dabbled with baseball, aka get  kicked out by Stern for gambling. 

[jmayer1]

avid... I get it, you are from Chicago, MJ is the holy land....

But give me a break, the Bulls in the 90s were very good, MJ was the best player on the team, but his teams were stacked...


LeBron could have done the same on those teams, maybe won more because he wouldn't have dabbled with baseball like Jordan.

The pitfall you are getting into Mayor is comparing Jordan's later, veteran-led teams to the current Lebron teams.  Who knows what type of talent Lebron will have around him in another 10 years, but the current Cleveland team is very similar to the Bulls' '91 championship team. 

Look at the comparisons:

Jordan - Lebron
Pippen (had 1 as appearance as of that finals) - Mo Williams (had 1 as appearance as of this year's playoffs)
Cartwright - Big Z
West, Varejao - Armstrong, Grant
Paxon, King, Hodges..etc - Wally, Wallace, Smith, Gibson, Pavlovic..etc

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1991.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2009.html

[reinko]

The pitfall you are getting into Mayor is comparing Jordan's later, veteran-led teams to the current Lebron teams.  Who knows what type of talent Lebron will have around him in another 10 years, but the current Cleveland team is very similar to the Bulls' '91 championship team. 

Look at the comparisons:

Jordan - Lebron
Pippen (had 1 as appearance as of that finals) - Mo Williams (had 1 as appearance as of this year's playoffs)
Cartwright - Big Z
West, Varejao - Armstrong, Grant
Paxon, King, Hodges..etc - Wally, Wallace, Smith, Gibson, Pavlovic..etc

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1991.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2009.html

You are missing the point jmayer.  By Illinois State Law, one can not ever make reference to, or allude that anyone ever was as great as thee Michael Jordan. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are missing the point jmayer.  By Illinois State Law, one can not ever make reference to, or allude that anyone ever was as great as thee Michael Jordan. 

LOL  Oh how true.  Just like the Laker fans out here (I can't stand them) who actually believe Kobe was innocent of raping that girl in Colorado, believe that the Lakers never foul, were created on the 7th day, etc.   Oh how I want Denver to win this series.

[reinko]

Well, I have finally found MJ's kryptonite...Reebok.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Michael-Jordan-supports-Chicago-rejects-NHL-spo?urn=nhl,165687


Douche.

[avid1010]

Maybe the question should be, could Jordan win with the Cavs or Lakers minus James/Kobe.  I believe it would be just as easy as when he was with the Bulls, and people would be posting about what a great shooters were on the Cavs/Lakers and how good Big Z, Odom, Gasol, etc. were. 

Not from Chicago, and not a Jordan fan at all.  He screwed over his family, and his father's death and decision to play baseball is conspicuous at best. 

Scottie Pippen, top 50, is a joke.  Without Jordan he managed to refuse to enter the final seconds of a crucial playoff game in which the play was supposed to, and did go to, Kukoc for the buzzer beater win.  If you think someone with that mentality is top 50 in the league you're crazy, and that's exactly why Jordan was quoted as saying Pippen couldn't win a championship without him.  MJ managed his ego along with so many of the other players. 

In Jordan's 6 championships he only played in two game sevens.  Neither James or Kobe is capable of managing a team like Jordan was.  To compare teammates is nice, but the argument can be made that the reason all those players were in Chicago was to play with Jordan.  Where is the line of players in Cleveland and LA looking to play with Kobe and Labron.  It all has to be considered.  Kobe and Labron are unbelievable players, but to say that Labron could do as good or better than Jordan if he had his team, and the kid hasn't even won one championship is ridiculous.  Until Kobe and Labron prove they can manage a team they're nothing more than Dan Marino to me.  Although if Marino had Montana's team he could have won all those championships as well.   

[avid1010]

Well, I have finally found MJ's kryptonite...Reebok.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Michael-Jordan-supports-Chicago-rejects-NHL-spo?urn=nhl,165687


Douche.

Let it go buddy.  I didn't enjoy watching Jordan dominate all those years either.  I'm assuming you judge D. Wade the same way?  Please don't tell me you have a business or law degree from MU.

[avid1010]

You are missing the point jmayer.  By Illinois State Law, one can not ever make reference to, or allude that anyone ever was as great as thee Michael Jordan. 

You're missing the point.  You obviously hate Jordan, but jmayer posted good stuff, and instead of having a thoughtful comment you went personal.  Anyone with an college degree who got stuck in a gen. ed. psych class can tell you what that means

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Well, I have finally found MJ's kryptonite...Reebok.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Michael-Jordan-supports-Chicago-rejects-NHL-spo?urn=nhl,165687


Douche.

Douche?  Reebok is his kryptonite?

He is under contract to Nike, he cannot violate his contract.

He did the same thing in the Olympics and covered up the Reebok. 

Pretty simple why he had to do this.

[reinko]

You're missing the point.  You obviously hate Jordan, but jmayer posted good stuff, and instead of having a thoughtful comment you went personal.  Anyone with an college degree who got stuck in a gen. ed. psych class can tell you what that means

I went personal?  I made an effin' joke.  Clearly if you read what I actually wrote, that MJ is the greatest basketball player of all time, and that I don't hate him.  I just disagreed with a lot of your hypothesis' that LeBron is esentially overrated and could never be compared to Jordan, yet if you look at my most, that through 6 seasons in the NBA, stastically, their paths are almost identical. 

And now you bash Pippen, yeah he is an ass, but he also averaged, about 22 pts, 9 boards, and 7 assists for those 6 championship seasons.

And I'll admit the Reebok joke was lame, but if you or Saint Paul Warrior actually read the article, it is not clearly stated that he is forbidden from wearing other companies gear.  LeBron and Kobe don't cover up the adidas logos on their jerseys.  And after rethinking it is kinda douchey that he wore a "Jordan" 'Hawks jersey.  Ever seen a celebrity where a personalized jersey?

 

[avid1010]

Only time will tell.  Right now, Labron reminds me much of what Jordan was prior to him learning how to manage his team....we'll see if he's able to make the changes that Jordan did to turn his ability and statistics into championships.  My money says he won't. 

[reinko]

Fair enough Avid.

/End pissing match

[wadesworld]

The NBA is clearly rigged.  They are doing everything that they can to get the Cavs this win.  Unbelievable officiating to end this game.

[TallTitan34]

The NBA is clearly rigged.  They are doing everything that they can to get the Cavs this win.  Unbelievable officiating to end this game.

The NBA wants their poster boy to actually win something.

[wadesworld]

Yup.  All we've heard about for the past 2 months is Kobe vs. Lebron.  They have those darn puppets for commercials.  I don't see any Magic or Nuggets puppets.  They're trying their hardest to get it.  I think it's going to be Kobe vs. Dwight.  I hope it's 'Melo (or Chauncey...most underrated player in the NBA) vs. Dwight.

[Thomas' Danish Delight]

Yup.  All we've heard about for the past 2 months is Kobe vs. Lebron.  They have those darn puppets for commercials.  I don't see any Magic or Nuggets puppets.  They're trying their hardest to get it.  I think it's going to be Kobe vs. Dwight.  I hope it's 'Melo (or Chauncey...most underrated player in the NBA) vs. Dwight.

+1

I got tired of the Kobe vs. Lebron talk a long time ago, and I'd love to see the Nuggets and Magic in the Finals.

The puppet commercials are kinda funny, though.  I'd like to see some kind of parody on them, though, once the Nuggets and Magic get into the Finals.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Douche?  Reebok is his kryptonite?

He is under contract to Nike, he cannot violate his contract.

He did the same thing in the Olympics and covered up the Reebok.  

Pretty simple why he had to do this.

And a lot of Americans thought it was a cheap move by Jordan and the team back then, too.  I mean, come on.  Wear the US uniform like every other Olympian, including the poor son of a bitch fencer that works 9 to 6 in his day job and gets nothing for it.  The covering it up was BS and I say that of every American that did that during the games.  It was pathetic to watch (and I come from an industry and personal occupation that pays millions to athletes to endorse products....it was the wrong move by the NBA players).

[ChicosBailBonds]

The NBA is clearly rigged.  They are doing everything that they can to get the Cavs this win.  Unbelievable officiating to end this game.

I believe Orlando won.

[wadesworld]

I believe Orlando won.

Yeah, and did you watch the end of that game?  I know there was contact when Lebron fell, but other than Lebron, Kobe, and Dwyane, who gets that call with .5 seconds in the game?  And then Dwight Howard, another All-Star, Team USA player, gets fouled much, MUCH worse than Lebron was on the following inbound pass and nothing is called.

Not to mention the technical fouls.  Lebron can scream and throw his arms around as much as he wants (both in celebration and in complaining at refs), but if Dwight Howard so much as yells after a monster dunk it's a technical foul.

I could throw out any number of videos of bologna fouls in just this series for Lebron (for example...the 3 pointer that Dwight Howard blocked of his within a minute left of game 3, his 6th foul in game 2 I believe, could have been 1, where he was clearly straight up and jumping AWAY from Lebron to avoid contact, etc.)  It's like Wade and the 2006 playoffs all over again.  I loved it then because it was Wade, but at the same time the NBA has their players that they want/need to win and they'll do everything and anything they can to get those teams to win.  The Cavs just couldn't even pull it off with 8 players on the court at a time.